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View Full Version : Oh, Our Men Are Finished? Well, Allow Me To Retort...



the_ouskull
3/19/2006, 10:44 AM
Frozen Sooner started a thread and made a number of great points, as has come to be expected with him. Please, allow me to try to make a few counterpoints in defense of Coach Sampson.

...but don't get me wrong. I'm not happy with the outcome of this season either. I just happen to have a bit more information to work with than many...

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Myth #1: Kelvin Sampson is not a good coach and we need to find a better one to replace him.

-- If Kelvin Sampson was not a good coach, he would not have 4 Conference Championships (3 tourney, 1 regular-season), a Sweet 16, an Elite 8, and a Final 4 under his belt... not to mention medalling with USA Basketball. Kelvin Sampson IS a good coach.

Myth #2: Kelvin Sampson's players do not improve.

-- Eddie didn't even speak English when he got to campus. I'd say he came along. However, this, I personally feel, is one of the more valid arguments that can be made against him, along with my next point. His players do not improve ENOUGH. Kelvin's system doesn't make for a bunch of scoring. His leading scorer usually averages around 15-18 points per game. It's how much more involved the rest of the team gets that makes the difference.

Myth #3: Kelvin Sampson cannot coach offense.

-- This is the other point that I'll hear arguments on. His teams have consistantly under-performed, especially against zone defenses. There are, however, a couple of reasons for this: 1) We've never really had a point guard that was a dual threat of taking it all the way to the rack or being able to kick it back out once the defense collapses. Quannas White was the closest thing I've seen us have to that, and we did pretty well with him here. 2) We've never had a post player that consistantly demanded a double-team, opening up our perimeter shooting. Aaron McGhee was the closest thing I've seen us have to that, and we did pretty well with him here. Taj Grey could have been a close second, BUT...

Myth #4: Kelvin Sampson's offense is slow and unpredictable.

-- Tying in with the last point, ANY offense is slow and unpredictable when the only player that can consistantly move the ball against medium pressure is also the biggest ball hog on the team (and maybe in OUr recent history) and doesn't get along, off of the court, with our best player. A lot of those shots that Terrell jacked up this year were shots that he was dumping off to Taj last year. And, just to be clear, I'm calling our best two players Taj and Terrell, and yes, I'm saying that they didn't get along well off of the court this year. It DID carry over into gameplay, but when the only player you've got that can halfway handle the ball is causing trouble, it would cause even MORE trouble for you to NOT play him.

Myth #5: Kelvin Sampson recruits too many "project" type players...

-- Oleg Retsov. Renzi Stone. Josepf Szendri. Longar Longar. Victor Avila. Johnnie Gilbert. This, too, could be a valid argument... but he's also managed to develop some of those projects... Like Eduardo. Like Ernie Abercrombie. Granted, the list is shorter, but it's there. I feel like, if Coach Sampson would go after more "home-grown" talent and less "heart, hustle, hardwood" talent, he'd be in a better place... BUT... that was his team THIS year, and look how that worked out. ...and can any of you imagine you'd ever hear the phrase, "Imagine what this year would have been like with a leader like Johnnie Gilbert on the team." There wouldn't have been the Taj / Terrell drama that many of you didn't know existed because he would have squashed it, the way that Kevin SHOULD have and Kellen TRIED to.

Myth #6: Kelvin runs off all of our good players.

-- How quickly we forget what the truth is when the sensational is presented to us...

Ryan Humprey: Head case. Transferred to a school that would help hiim "showcase his offensive talents NOT playing center." Then proceeded to showcase his MENTAL talents by transferring to a school that had an All-American playing the 4, hereby, sticking him at center.

McKenzie, Lavender, Foust: In order, one-demensional gunner, defensive liability, and head case, the sequel. Yeah, I'd have liked to have seen Drew have some court time with the athletes we had this year, but, at the same time, I'd have had to remember the bad times... the, post-him-up-on-every-possession times...

Kelvin doesn't run off our good players... Hard word does. These are guys that were expecting college to be an extention of High School for them... coddling and pampering instead of players being as good as and even better than you, and people kissing your *ss. Coach Sampson may be a lot of things, but an *sskisser will NEVER be one of them.

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I'll leave you guys with those for now. I have to head to work. More later.

the_ouskull

KABOOKIE
3/19/2006, 10:52 AM
So everyone Kelvin runs off is a "head case"? I'll disagree with that one.

Big Red Ron
3/19/2006, 10:54 AM
So everyone Kelvin runs off is a "head case"? I'll disagree with that one.There's more but I'm lazy and am waiting to see what slipps through the cracks. ;)

OUGreg723
3/19/2006, 11:16 AM
Great Post. KEEP THE FAITH.

Frozen Sooner
3/19/2006, 12:32 PM
D, I think myth #4 is the only one that I actually included in my post.

GDC
3/19/2006, 12:51 PM
When one team shoots 32 free throws and we shoot 10, we're screwed no matter who the coach is. We are acting like the classic bandwagoners, everyone's all fired up about the women and down on the men right now.

MojoRisen
3/19/2006, 12:53 PM
So everyone Kelvin runs off is a "head case"? I'll disagree with that one.

That is a real weak argument on the transfers- I guess Notre Dame and Xavier are extensions of highscool- Please Xavier is one of the toughest Academic schools in the country.

Alexander- Head Case- he too has medals for the US- and seems to be doing just fine for Charlotte.

That is the biggest- LOVEFEST I have seen yet.

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 01:04 PM
Everyone forgets that McKenzie left because he wanted to be a point guard and Kelvin knew he wasn't. Sampson didn't run McKenzie off, McKenzie *flat out stated* that he wanted to increase his NBA potential and Kelvin wouldn't do that at the expense of the team.

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 01:05 PM
That is a real weak argument on the transfers- I guess Notre Dame and Xavier are extensions of highscool- Please Xavier is one of the toughest Academic schools in the country.

Alexander- Head Case- he too has medals for the US- and seems to be doing just fine for Charlotte.

That is the biggest- LOVEFEST I have seen yet.

The same Alexander who left because he was afraid of being recruited over and didn't want to have to face the competition?

MojoRisen
3/19/2006, 01:07 PM
Future A10 player of the year- doesn't want to see competition? He was an in state product and started as a freshman- was arguable our best player and certainly the one with the most potential.

Gone

PrideTrombone
3/19/2006, 01:17 PM
The same Alexander who left because he was afraid of being recruited over and didn't want to have to face the competition?

Obviously the competition wouldn't have been too stiff.

MojoRisen
3/19/2006, 01:23 PM
Everyone forgets that McKenzie left because he wanted to be a point guard and Kelvin knew he wasn't. Sampson didn't run McKenzie off, McKenzie *flat out stated* that he wanted to increase his NBA potential and Kelvin wouldn't do that at the expense of the team.


Can't Kelvin qualify that mckenzie wanted to be a point guard before he came to OU? You are not going to keep excellent players if you force them into posoitions that will not get them to the next level- the biggest difference between the football program and the basketball program in that respect- is ussually accompanied with a position change comes Playing time and a better chance at the NFL- if you can't keep that in perspective- don't bother playing for National championships-

KABOOKIE
3/19/2006, 01:44 PM
Everyone forgets that McKenzie left because he wanted to be a point guard and Kelvin knew he wasn't. Sampson didn't run McKenzie off, McKenzie *flat out stated* that he wanted to increase his NBA potential and Kelvin wouldn't do that at the expense of the team.


Wait a minute? Attracting NBA potentials to OU would hurt the team?

Frozen Sooner
3/19/2006, 02:02 PM
Alexander did not leave because he was frightened of competition or being recruited over.

DeAngelo Alexander would not have played for OU last year. Period. Whether he had been at OU or not, he would not have stepped foot on the basketball court. It has nothing to do with his talent, it has nothing to do with getting along with Coach Sampson, and it has nothing to do with him wanting to be on the OU basketball team or not.

Brandon Foust was not a high character guy. Leave it at that. You'd think the fact that he was arrested for burglary shortly after his dismissal from the team would have brought that home.

Lawrence MacKenzie did want to be a point when he was recruited. Kelvin gave him a shot at the point. He was a disaster-he couldn't bring the ball up against any kind of defense and his T:A assist ratio was abysmal.

I'm not trying to apologize for Coach Sampson and these players leaving, but those are the facts.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 02:11 PM
Alexander not qualify to play?

MojoRisen
3/19/2006, 02:17 PM
Alexander left becasue he wants to get to the next level- you better here two sides to the story not- the excuses after the fact that we don't retain.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 02:26 PM
so, which is the truth? wants to play in the NBA or the mystery Froze left us with?

c'mon guys.

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 02:46 PM
Wait a minute? Attracting NBA potentials to OU would hurt the team?

Who said that? Attracting NBA potential to OU is great, but only if the talent is there.

Did you ever see McKenzie play? He is the one-dimensional player that some of you claim Michael Neal to be. Neal plays good defense and moves very well without the ball. McKenzie just shot threes. That is it. He had no handles, couldn't create his own shot, was very slow, and was a greater defensive liability then Lavender. Not only was he not NBA point-guard material, I doubt he was NBA anything material.

MojoRisen
3/19/2006, 02:53 PM
What I am saying is you can't pass the buck for Kelvin, he recruited these players and is responsible to see too it that they are fitting into the program-

I think that he biatch slaps em- and that he doesn't psychologically manage his team well- if he were more like Phil Jackson- he would pass a peice pipe and discuss how the team is going to be better. Most schools have to manage a lot more talent and recruit year in year out- Kelvin has proven too me that he can't handle his own recruits- anything you say about it points to Kelvin.. Just about everyone that has transfered has started for or will start for a Major Basketball program.

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 03:08 PM
What I am saying is you can't pass the buck for Kelvin, he recruited these players and is responsible to see too it that they are fitting into the program-

I think that he biatch slaps em- and that he doesn't psychologically manage his team well- if he were more like Phil Jackson- he would pass a peice pipe and discuss how the team is going to be better. Most schools have to manage a lot more talent and recruit year in year out- Kelvin has proven too me that he can't handle his own recruits- anything you say about it points to Kelvin.. Just about everyone that has transfered has started for or will start for a Major Basketball program.

You're right. How could I have not realized it before. We are the only program that underachieved this year. No other coach besides Sampson has transfers or personnel problems. He is also the only coach that has ever made mistakes, be it during recruiting, game planning, or handling transfers. Furthermore, OU is entitled to be good at everything because we are good at football and that makes us better than everyone and above the normal worries and concerns of every other college.

MojoRisen
3/19/2006, 03:15 PM
I'll let it rest-

KABOOKIE
3/19/2006, 03:40 PM
You're right. How could I have not realized it before. We are the only program that underachieved this year. No other coach besides Sampson has transfers or personnel problems. He is also the only coach that has ever made mistakes, be it during recruiting, game planning, or handling transfers. Furthermore, OU is entitled to be good at everything because we are good at football and that makes us better than everyone and above the normal worries and concerns of every other college.

:rolleyes: Gawd. The football school excuse again. I'm gonna puke.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 03:55 PM
football school is the only excuse they have. and its a crappy one

william_brasky
3/19/2006, 04:16 PM
Someone please tell me if the following statement is true or false.

In Sampson's tenure at OU, he has signed 2 McDonald's All-American players, and both of these players transferred out after 2 years in the program.

Cam
3/19/2006, 04:19 PM
I'm sorry, but using ESL as an example of player improvement is about the lamest argument I've seen on here for quite some time. For some reason, I just don't see Kelvin tutoring Eddie on how to speak English, so it's kind of hard for me to give him credit for that.

I think you'll find that most people will/have stated that Kelvin's a good coach. He's not, however, the person to take the program to the next level. He's had more than enough time to prove that.

There are 3 trophy opportunities per year in college basketball. KS has had a shot at 36 in 12 years, he's taken home 4. In case you're wondering, Bill Self has 1 less Big 12 trophy than Sampson, and he's managed to do that in 2 years. Are they ****ed that they got bounced in the 1st round 2 years in a row? Bet your *** they are.

Team chemistry lies squarely at the foot of the head coach. It's his freaking job to get his players to gel on the court. Some how, the anamosity between the two lasts all freaking season? Unless one of them screwed the others mother, it should've been done long ago.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 04:20 PM
yes, that is true. unless reynolds has already signed. that would make 3.

TheHumanAlphabet
3/19/2006, 04:23 PM
Both 'skull and 'froze have made good points. We're fans, we want OU to win and be in a good light. I don't mind 1-point wins. I like the type of game Kelvin brings, hard work and tenacity...What I don't like is that it seems often, the men's bball team gets embarrassed by a team it shouldn't. One-offs and slumps not figured in here, the team doesn't seem to have the juice at times. Perhaps its personnel, perhaps its players, but it seems to have been quite a while since we have had a team that has played as a unit and everyone working together...

william_brasky
3/19/2006, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the reply martin.

To me, it's just sad that 1) the OU program does not attract many McDonald's All-Americans, and 2) when we do get McDonald's All-Americans, they leave after 2 years (not for the NBA but for another school).

oumartin
3/19/2006, 04:55 PM
Would you wanna play in a system that runs that offense?

william_brasky
3/19/2006, 04:58 PM
I'm not a McDonald's All-American, so I cannot answer that question. :)

However, I have eaten at McDonald's, and I have played basketball.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 05:05 PM
Pure shooter here buddy! Sweetest stroke on my special olympic bronze medal team!

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 05:16 PM
I was using football to speak of enitlement. We have a nice basketball history here at OU, but not a spectacular one. We aren't elite and we aren't on the cusp of being elite. A lot of you complain about the lack of high school recruits we get and about how we fill our rosters with JUCO's, then bitch because we aren't a consistent Sweet 16 team. Where is the logic behind that? What part of our basketball history says that a 20 win season and a chance at a Big XII title are low expectations for OU? It is all about a false sense of entitlement, and whether you can admit it to yourself or not, that comes from our success in other sports.

crawfish
3/19/2006, 05:19 PM
Alexander left becasue he wants to get to the next level- you better here two sides to the story not- the excuses after the fact that we don't retain.

Alexander's mom wanted him at OU. Alexander's dad NEVER wanted him here. I think after grades and a few discipline issues the balance of power shifted.

I don't think he's a bad kid and I wish him well.

CtheB
3/19/2006, 05:21 PM
Gee, and all this time I thought that DeAngelo left because he was relegated to sixth man status on an average team two years ago.

PrideTrombone
3/19/2006, 05:26 PM
I was using football to speak of enitlement. We have a nice basketball history here at OU, but not a spectacular one. We aren't elite and we aren't on the cusp of being elite. A lot of you complain about the lack of high school recruits we get and about how we fill our rosters with JUCO's, then bitch because we aren't a consistent Sweet 16 team. Where is the logic behind that? What part of our basketball history says that a 20 win season and a chance at a Big XII title are low expectations for OU? It is all about a false sense of entitlement, and whether you can admit it to yourself or not, that comes from our success in other sports.

So you're saying we can expect great things of other sports, but not of men's basketball? Weak. Sherri Coale has actually gotten one game further in the tourney than Kelvin, with not even 1/4 the history and tradition that the men's team has. I'm not sure about any past softball success, but I'm pretty sure Patti Gasso managed to build that one form the ground up too. Why are we asking too much for Kelvin to take a team that actually has some history and take it to the next level?

CtheB
3/19/2006, 05:28 PM
To be quite honest with you, our BB program needs to embrace the FB program's success. Without the FB program, and Joe C's means of gaining priority points for seating, there would, in my opinion, be a 50% reduction in season ticket sales for men's basketball.

Cam
3/19/2006, 05:29 PM
So you're saying we can expect great things of other sports, but not of men's basketball? Weak.
Actually, we can only expect great things from football, nothing else.

KABOOKIE
3/19/2006, 05:49 PM
I was using football to speak of enitlement. We have a nice basketball history here at OU, but not a spectacular one. We aren't elite and we aren't on the cusp of being elite. A lot of you complain about the lack of high school recruits we get and about how we fill our rosters with JUCO's, then bitch because we aren't a consistent Sweet 16 team. Where is the logic behind that? What part of our basketball history says that a 20 win season and a chance at a Big XII title are low expectations for OU? It is all about a false sense of entitlement, and whether you can admit it to yourself or not, that comes from our success in other sports.


OK so it's "other sports" excuse.

Dear kelvin, recruit more softball players.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 05:53 PM
Dear kelvin, call more softball players.

fixed.

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 05:54 PM
So you're saying we can expect great things of other sports, but not of men's basketball? Weak. Sherri Coale has actually gotten one game further in the tourney than Kelvin, with not even 1/4 the history and tradition that the men's team has. I'm not sure about any past softball success, but I'm pretty sure Patti Gasso managed to build that one form the ground up too. Why are we asking too much for Kelvin to take a team that actually has some history and take it to the next level?

But did you expect great things from Sherri Coale? No. We hoped that it was a great hire, and it turned out to be more than a great hire. It turned out to be a historically great hire, but it wasn't expected. There are a great number of colleges who wish they could get someone like Sherri Coale, but they can't expect it.

I expect our football program to compete for national championships...because that is the kind of football program we have. I expect our men's gymnastic team and the women's softball team to compete at that level too...because they are those kind of programs. I hope and pray that we can build a basketball team that competes at the level the football team does, but I don't expect it. There are a very few college that can claim success like that, and expecting it is not only fantastical, but also arrogant in the extreme.

PrideTrombone
3/19/2006, 06:03 PM
I expect our football program to compete for national championships...because that is the kind of football program we have. I expect our men's gymnastic team and the women's softball team to compete at that level too...because they are those kind of programs.

That kind of success has to start somewhere. I'd just like to see the men's bball program be active in reaching those kinds of goals instead of getting the same old results every year. Yes, we made a Final 4 and Elite 8, and its obvious that we weren't able to capitalize on those successes with Kelvin running the show.

Cam
3/19/2006, 06:03 PM
Are you talking about 10 years ago when the WBB program was dead, or are you talking about the present?

If you can't change your expectations of a program after 10 years of the same leader, I would say you've got the wrong freaking leader running your program. Don't care what school you're at, or what type of program you have.


But did you expect great things from Sherri Coale? No. We hoped that it was a great hire, and it turned out to be more than a great hire. It turned out to be a historically great hire, but it wasn't expected. There are a great number of colleges who wish they could get someone like Sherri Coale, but they can't expect it.

I expect our football program to compete for national championships...because that is the kind of football program we have. I expect our men's gymnastic team and the women's softball team to compete at that level too...because they are those kind of programs. I hope and pray that we can build a basketball team that competes at the level the football team does, but I don't expect it. There are a very few college that can claim success like that, and expecting it is not only fantastical, but also arrogant in the extreme.

william_brasky
3/19/2006, 06:04 PM
It is all about a false sense of entitlement, and whether you can admit it to yourself or not, that comes from our success in other sports.

False sense of entitlement my rear.

That's a real sense of entitlement dude. We want excellence in all sports. Especially the sports I like. :)

There's something wrong with wanting our hoops program to become a top program? If so, I'll go root for Duke.

Current regime ain't cuttin' it. It's time to clean house.

KABOOKIE
3/19/2006, 06:06 PM
I expect our football program to compete for national championships...because that is the kind of football program we have. I expect our men's gymnastic team and the women's softball team to compete at that level too...because they are those kind of programs. I hope and pray that we can build a basketball team that competes at the level the football team does, but I don't expect it. There are a very few college that can claim success like that, and expecting it is not only fantastical, but also arrogant in the extreme.


Call me a fantastic but, I'd rather just expect the same kind of success from basketball as well.

okienole3
3/19/2006, 06:11 PM
But did you expect great things from Sherri Coale? No. We hoped that it was a great hire, and it turned out to be more than a great hire. It turned out to be a historically great hire, but it wasn't expected. There are a great number of colleges who wish they could get someone like Sherri Coale, but they can't expect it.

I expect our football program to compete for national championships...because that is the kind of football program we have. I expect our men's gymnastic team and the women's softball team to compete at that level too...because they are those kind of programs. I hope and pray that we can build a basketball team that competes at the level the football team does, but I don't expect it. There are a very few college that can claim success like that, and expecting it is not only fantastical, but also arrogant in the extreme.

So, does not being able to expect it mean that you have to give up trying?

william_brasky
3/19/2006, 06:58 PM
Call me a fantastic but, I'd rather just expect the same kind of success from basketball as well.


You're a fantastic but. :texan:

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 07:28 PM
So, does not being able to expect it mean that you have to give up trying?

Hell no. I don't want us to stop trying at all, but that is not the prevalent attitude on any of the OU basketball boards. Instead it sounds ridiculous on every basketball board you visit.

SoonerBBall
3/19/2006, 07:34 PM
That kind of success has to start somewhere. I'd just like to see the men's bball program be active in reaching those kinds of goals instead of getting the same old results every year. Yes, we made a Final 4 and Elite 8, and its obvious that we weren't able to capitalize on those successes with Kelvin running the show.

And we have at any other point, with any other coach at OU?

Scott D
3/19/2006, 07:41 PM
I don't know I kinda view it like this. In terms of programs like Softball and Women's Basketball things really couldn't have gotten much worse, the same I guess could be applied to Volleyball as well. Men's Basketball however we had a 'decent' team year in and year out, other than a couple of runs during the 80s. At the time our AD went after Kelvin Sampson he was a relatively hot coaching commodity. He'd just led Washington State to a decent run in the tourney the season before, and he'd somewhat built that program up from where it had been prior to him coaching there.

Are there aspects to the way Coach Sampson does things that I don't agree with? Certainly. Do I think he and the program could/should be doing better? Sure, high expectations are part of the bargain. Do I think that the problem is that we don't get enough true blue chippers that can take over a game offensively and be reliable on the defensive end? You bet. Honestly, one of the factors that I think has probably hurt Oklahoma basketball the most has been the proliferation of high school players to declare for the NBA draft. When you think College Basketball you think Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, Syracuse, Michigan State, Georgetown, Arizona, and recently Gonzaga. I've never considered our men's basketball program to be a top tier program, but a second-third tier program with occasional top tier runs. No shame in that, it's part of the 'fallout' from being in a Football first location. Maybe things would be different if there was a larger population in Oklahoma, but at least when I lived there Basketball always struck me as something people did to pass the time until Football.

Sooner04
3/19/2006, 07:58 PM
Alexander left becasue he wants to get to the next level- you better here two sides to the story not- the excuses after the fact that we don't retain.
Alexander left because he was about to get kicked out of school for academic reasons.

Sorry.

TheHumanAlphabet
3/19/2006, 08:04 PM
After reading a bit here, something stands out...

Do we want a team or do we want a prima dona or two running around sligging it up a la NBA style with three or four others standing around?

Those McDonald type players may well not be what we want as a team. Seems too much is made of going to the NBA and the recent transition of H.S. players hasn't helped players attitude about working hard and paying your dues before getting the break...

Just sayin'...

william_brasky
3/19/2006, 08:06 PM
Do we want a team or do we want a prima dona or two running around sligging it up a la NBA style with three or four others standing around?

3 or 4 others stand around in the current system.

william_brasky
3/19/2006, 08:09 PM
Well, we can argue this until the cows come home.

I think it shows we have fans who are passionate about OU basketball. That's a good thing.

The only thing that matters is if Joe C. and Boren are satisifed with the current state of OU Mens' Basketball, then that'll be that.

If they are not satisfied, expect a change.

Either way, BOOMER SOONER!

JohnnyMack
3/19/2006, 10:40 PM
I think Kelvin is a good coach. He's done a terrific job of recruiting, but I feel that once the kids are in the system they don't always like what they see. KS has a coaching philosophy based on tenacious defense and what I would call a fairly dated style of offense. The physical effort that's placed on the players, combined with an offense that some would call stifling, has caused quite a few players to seek greener pastures. I'm not sure what the attrition rate at OU is compared to other schools, maybe someone has done the research? I would bet it's right at, or maybe slightly higher than what is seen at other D1 schools. Considering all that, OU has still managed to win more than 20 wins a season under Sampson. They've made a Final 4 appearance, won 3 conference tourneys and have 1 conference title. Not bad. Not bad at all. But it isn't great. It isn't elite. What OU fans (who I will admit are some of the most spoiled in the nation) expect, is elite. After more than a decade of the Sampson regime OU isn't elite. The question is, can it become elite under Sampson? He does have OU's best winning percentage in the regular season, and is on pace to become OU's all-time winningest coach in a few years.

But he's remarkably average come NCAA tourney time. KS's NCAA tourney record is what's really at issue here. The question is why can't he get it done in the tourney? Why is he a pedestrian 11 - 10 in the big dance? Why all the upsets? A win here, a win there and we aren't having this discussion. If Manhattan, Indiana State and UW-Milwaukee weren't such bad words around here, we're not having all this strife. Sampson's inability to get the job done come tourney time is why we're all going velveeta. But we saw it coming. We saw the offensive struggles, we saw the lack of cohesiveness all year long and we knew an early exit was coming in the tourney. Wins against subpar opponents and a pedestrian conferece slate gave us a record that was inflated and not true to how good (or bad) we really were this year. After watching us play WVU I knew, I just knew we didn't have what it took to make any noise this year.

KS is a good coach, he's done a great job and deserves a lot of respect for all he's given to OU. However after a decade I think we all pretty much know what we're going to get with a Kelvin Sampson team. It's not for me to decide if he's to remain the coach at OU or for how long, but you'll forgive me if I don't invest myself emotionally into a coach and a system that tends to dissapoint more than it rewards.

I'm a typical spoiled OU fan and I expect elite. I have a bar that is set at 9 out of 10. I feel like we get about 7 out of 10 with KS.

CtheB
3/19/2006, 10:45 PM
The physical effort that's placed on the players, combined with an offense that some would call stifling, has caused quite a few players to seek greener pastures. I'm not sure what the attrition rate at OU is compared to other schools, maybe someone has done the research? I would bet it's right at, or maybe slightly higher than what is seen at other D1 schools. .

JM....my thoughts echo your entire post. Kudos and spek.

To answer the above question, though, I would argue that wouldn't be a fair comparison re: attrition rates at other schools. Our kids don't leave OU because of lack of playing time, which is the most typical reason for kids to leave.

the_ouskull
3/19/2006, 11:45 PM
Alexander left becasue he wants to get to the next level- you better here two sides to the story not- the excuses after the fact that we don't retain.

Wrong. Flat out wrong. DeAngelo left on his own before his grades would have forced the issue without his input. If you'd like more info on it, ask him. I did.

the_ouskull

the_ouskull
3/19/2006, 11:52 PM
As for everybody else...

Thank you. This is obviously a topic that a number of people want to discuss, and it's a topic that a number of us, regardless of which side of the fence we're on, feel quite strongly about. I happen to think that Kelvin is a great coach, and he's a couple of cogs away. He really could, and IMHO, SHOULD, have won a title with Hollis, Q, Ace, et al... I felt like Indiana's soft play contrasted so greatly against our in-your-face play that they got the respect of the "powers that be."

I also feel like we could be in / on the cusp again soon.

Also, I notice that all of the detractors failed to answer my question...

-- Name another coach with Kelvin's resume that could and would leave their current position for OU.

The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence, but if you move next door without a lawn mower, don't be suprised when you get eaten alive...

the_ouskull

william_brasky
3/20/2006, 12:00 AM
Also, I notice that all of the detractors failed to answer my question...

-- Name another coach with Kelvin's resume that could and would leave their current position for OU.

The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence, but if you move next door without a lawn mower, don't be suprised when you get eaten alive...

the_ouskull

I've mentioned this a few times skull. If we were to be looking for a new coach, let's go get someone young and up-and-coming. Turgeon at Wichita State, Pelphrey at S. Alabama. Both played at great college programs and have assisted at great programs, and could, in my opinion, take a program to an elite level. Just my thoughts.

I like your last quote. A good mower is paramount. :)

GDC
3/20/2006, 01:45 AM
Maryland, Michigan, Louisville, and OSU didn't even make the NCAA this year. Do they have more or less basketball tradition than OU?

badger
3/20/2006, 02:16 AM
I would not fire him because we wouldn't find anyone better. I just feel bad that our group of seniors couldn't win it all after working so hard for OU these years.

soonerbub
3/20/2006, 02:51 AM
Unfortunately for D-Lo you can't major in plagiarism at OU. Ah well--maybe he can make some coin if he's willing to go across the pond.

william_brasky
3/20/2006, 03:46 AM
Maryland, Michigan, Louisville, and OSU didn't even make the NCAA this year. Do they have more or less basketball tradition than OU?

They all have more. What's your point?

TheHumanAlphabet
3/20/2006, 06:53 AM
Unfortunately for D-Lo you can't major in plagiarism at OU. Ah well--maybe he can make some coin if he's willing to go across the pond.

He needs to go to the school Senator Biden went to. They apparently allow plagarism, esp. for graduate degrees...;)

GDC
3/20/2006, 08:36 AM
They all have more. What's your point?

That they didn't make the NCAA this year and OU did. Kansas lost in the first round like we did. I'm not a sunshine pumper, I hate it when OU loses in any sport, but I can't stand it when fans rag on the coaches and players.

C&CDean
3/20/2006, 09:52 AM
I haven't read the whole thread. Maybe 3-4 posts.

This year's team was mediocre. Taj Gray? Hype. Bookout? Big, strong, and slow. He did give his all though. Everett? Major disappointment. Guess the ganja affected his game. Neal? His 3's kept us in those 4 games we won by 1 point. Griffin? He's gonna be good. Johnson? Hurt, and never played 100%. Assistant coaches? Average. Our fans? Suckage. Kelvin? I guess the buck stops here, but I strongly believe he got sucked into the preseason hype on his team. They just weren't/aren't that good. I like Kelvin. I want Kelvin to stay. OU will never do better than Kelvin Sampson in men's basketball.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/20/2006, 10:03 AM
I'm reserving judgement until I see what if any additional penalties we get from the NCAA.

But,

Alexander left because of academic reasons and not because UNC-Charlotte is THE path to the NBA

I'm generally a Sampson supporter but next year is a make or break year as far as my support.

I think there is nothing wrong with wanting the basketball program to take it to another level and there could very well be some other coaches that can have even more success but at this point unless we get gutted by probation I think it is more likely that the next coach would have less success overall than KS. The OU job is a good one but it isn't nearly as attractive as it is in football. We probably wouldn't have our first choice as a coach, more likely are 4th or 5th choice which could still be good but Tom Izzo or Roy Williams aren't jumping over here. Mark Few? Probably not either.

I'm rooting for women's hoops and I hope we win the title but at risk at sounding like a sexist (which I'm not) I'd rather the mens team make the Elite 8 then the womens team win the NC. Sherri Coale is an amazing coach but some people also think we got her as an assistant from Tenn or UConn and not as a high school coach when the team was about the worst in the Big 12. We didn't fire a coach that was consistantly in the tourney to hire Coale any more than we would have fired John Blake to bring in Bob Stoops if Blake had been 7-4 in 1998.

I think he is a good coach but I don't want Mark Turgeon coaching at OU any more that I'd like to see Matt Leinert coaching OU football someday.

Again, I'm waiting to see what the NCAA has to say. If there are no big penalties then I like how the team looks on paper the next couple years...

MojoRisen
3/20/2006, 10:14 AM
Small voice- loud typing

crawfish
3/20/2006, 10:17 AM
Wrong. Flat out wrong. DeAngelo left on his own before his grades would have forced the issue without his input. If you'd like more info on it, ask him. I did.

the_ouskull

DeAngelo's dad worked with my wife's cousin, who said he constantly badmouthed Kelvin and OU. It's not difficult to see how he'd decide to leave when some tough times hit, with this kind of influence.

Tulsa_Sooner
3/20/2006, 10:37 AM
Good thread, lots of good arguments both ways, and kept civil throughout.

My two cents, for whatever it is worth (probably less than two cents): Give Kelvin another year. His teams have disappointed in the post season on more than one occasion, but I would call this team the first one that was a significant disappointment throughout the season. I'm not a basketball guru by any stretch of the imagination, and I don't know whether the lack of defensive effort was coaching or just the players, but I think that was the biggest disappointment with the team. Kelvin's system does not provide for a lot of offensive punch, but his past teams would generate offense off of turnovers, steals, etc. Kelvin's teams would get fast break points off of turnovers, not off of transition offense. This team didn't seem to ever reach that point, and I think that hurt them more than anything else.

The other disappointment is the recruiting violations. I think a lot of the anger with Sampson is at least partially due to the whole NCAA investigation. He was always perceived as a straight shooter who ran an incredibly clean program, and the violations hurt his image. Hopefully, no more sanctions will be levelled, and he can work his way through this and regain his image. Barring any increased sanctions from the NCAA, I am still a Kelvin supporter.

Next year, expectations will obviously be lower, having graduated 3 of our starters. However, Kelvin seems to thrive more in that position anyway, and we'll have a much different cast to work with. Lots of new incoming talent, and definitely new leadership, another thing the previous team was lacking. If Kelvin can not get this new group of players to at least play smart as a team by the end of next season, then I'll be questioning his coaching abilities. I think people have been too quick to judge him now based on his last two years with largely the same cast of "leadership" that has obviously not gotten it done. Now he has a new set of people, and if the hype is to be believed, they should be even more talented than the previous. Give him a chance with them, and it they still underachieve, then it will have to be attributed to coaching rather than the players.

MojoRisen
3/20/2006, 11:07 AM
I'll give him a year- to do what- ABC or just to get the pressure off.

Half a Hundred
3/20/2006, 12:24 PM
OU will never do better than Kelvin Sampson in men's basketball.

All in all, I think this is what it comes down to. People have different ideas of what makes a coach better than another. Some people think that a solid regular-season record (like Sampson brings) is the sign of a good coach. Others think that immense success in the Tournament (like Tom Izzo, whom I think is a little overrated) is the end-all be-all standard. And others just want to watch an exciting and entertaining team that regularly makes the Tournament and wins a few conference championships. If it weren't for this, everyone would agree what needs to be done.

rhombic21
3/20/2006, 12:34 PM
My main problem with coach Sampson is that he doesn't seem to use enough high school talent. He seems to rely HEAVILY on Jucos. Look at this year's team, Everett, Gray, and Neal were all JUCOs, and Carter was a transfer.

Look at who we had when we went to the Elite 8/Final Four:

Ebi Ere - JUCO
Quannas White - JUCO
Aaron McGhee - JUCO
Jason Detrick - JUCO
Jabhari Brown - Transfer
Darian Selvey - JUCO

Hollis Price and Johnny Gilbert (who I think redshirted during the final four year) were the only two guys that played significant time and came into the program as freshmen.

The problem with that is that you can't develop chemistry, or have guys learn their roles over time. Just when guys start to blossom or come together as a team, the eligibility runs out.

Look at the team next year. We're basically starting all over, which we do roughly every 2 years. When you can't keep and develop prep talent, it really limits what kind of chemistry you can have. Look at the teams that are consistently advancing deep into the NCAA tournament, and you see that they recruit a lot of prep talent, and use JUCOs or transfer kids as short term stop gap role players, rather than relying on them as the centerpieces of the team.

With that said, I don't think that we ought to fire Kelvin. I think that he does very well with the resources provided to him, and has made more of an effort over the last couple of years to bring in more prep talent. Some of those guys that left were just bad apples, and others just had things not work out (Alex Spaulding, or the Hart kid out of Arkansas for example). I don't have a problem with the style of offense or any of that stuff, and I can't argue with his consistent level of success (11 of 12 years in the NCAA tournament, usually with a pretty decent seeding). But if we want to take our basketball program to the next level, and consistently compete for final fours and NCs, then we've got to find a way to get and keep prep talent. Whether that means recruiting better character kids, or changing our mentality about having "rebuilding years", we've just got to do it.

SoonerBBall
3/20/2006, 02:33 PM
Look at who we had when we went to the Elite 8/Final Four:

Ebi Ere - JUCO
Quannas White - JUCO
Aaron McGhee - JUCO
Jason Detrick - JUCO
Jabhari Brown - Transfer
Darian Selvey - JUCO

Hollis Price and Johnny Gilbert (who I think redshirted during the final four year) were the only two guys that played significant time and came into the program as freshmen.

The problem with that is that you can't develop chemistry, or have guys learn their roles over time. Just when guys start to blossom or come together as a team, the eligibility runs out.


I agree with your reasoning to a point, but your refute your own 'can't develop chemistry' argument. The Final Four and Elite Eight teams were loaded with JUCOs that had developed a lot of chemistry while at OU.

To compliment your argument, though, I think that Kelvin has a hard time getting HS talent to buy into his system, while JUCO players have a better understanding of post-HS basketball and are more willing to give it a shot.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/20/2006, 03:33 PM
Next years team looks to be made up of more high school/prep school talent than any other KS team. I don't know if that alone is a good thing or a bad thing but I do think he has made an overall effort toward getting more HS kids. Juco's are usually a more proven commodity though not always (Chris Walker) so I have no problem with having some brought in. Only a few top teams operate without Jucos.

I think generally speaking the Juco experiment has worked at OU but I'd like to see the team be made up of predominantly 4 year players.

Of course had Chris Walker been Brandon Rush instead I would have taken a 1-2 year player.

Taxman71
3/20/2006, 03:37 PM
I agree with your reasoning to a point, but your refute your own 'can't develop chemistry' argument. The Final Four and Elite Eight teams were loaded with JUCOs that had developed a lot of chemistry while at OU.

To compliment your argument, though, I think that Kelvin has a hard time getting HS talent to buy into his system, while JUCO players have a better understanding of post-HS basketball and are more willing to give it a shot.

In all fairness, didn't Ebi Ere commit/sign out of high school, but wen't JUCO due to grades? Also, McGee transferred from Cincinatti.

I think players have to own up to their own development and stay out of trouble. Some have bad luck. Matt Gipson looked strong as a frosh until getting kicked off for *alleged* drug charges. Blake Johnston would have helped tremendously had his health allowed him to continue (PG who could shoot). Larry Turner left for alleged family reasons. Tobias quit the team early on. Several of these guys were highly recruited and couldn't stick it out.

As for Victor Avila, I thought he handled Chris Mihm pretty darn well.

OUstud
3/20/2006, 04:30 PM
I've decided to make a 2006-2007 prediction.

PG= NCAA Tournament, Sweet 16+.
No PG= NIT first round exit, probation, no KS.

okienole3
3/20/2006, 04:50 PM
McGhee transferred from Cincinatti to a JUCO, then to OU.

william_brasky
3/20/2006, 04:51 PM
OU will never do better than Kelvin Sampson in men's basketball.

that statement makes me sad as hell.

william_brasky
3/20/2006, 07:34 PM
couple of things

1) I'm surprised this thread has been allowed to go as far as it has.
2) Today's developments are very interesting.

I think a change is about to be made.

PrideTrombone
3/20/2006, 07:36 PM
2) Today's developments are very interesting.


Developments?

oumartin
3/20/2006, 07:37 PM
what developments? don't be teasing us

william_brasky
3/20/2006, 07:37 PM
the weed smokin'

oumartin
3/20/2006, 07:41 PM
I don't think Joe. C. has the guts to run him off.
has he fired a coach there yet other than blake?

PrideTrombone
3/20/2006, 07:44 PM
I don't think Joe. C. has the guts to run him off.
has he fired a coach there yet other than blake?

The old volleyball coach, I think. And Cochell.

oumartin
3/20/2006, 07:46 PM
dent cochell "step down" i mean, cochell really dent have a choice did he..
volleyball i have no clue about.

william_brasky
3/20/2006, 07:49 PM
I hate to see Kelvin go out with the weed thing as the final dagger. Sampson has more character than that. I don't like his coaching, but he does seem to be a man with great character. I'll give him that.

Say no to drugs.

oumartin
3/20/2006, 07:53 PM
as in phone call character or leaking that he wants to leave character? ;)

Newbomb Turk
3/20/2006, 08:00 PM
dent cochell "step down" i mean, cochell really dent have a choice did he..

yeah - stepped down. Kinda like how Barry stepped down.

william_brasky
3/20/2006, 08:01 PM
I don't know how to respond to that martin.

Cam
3/20/2006, 08:49 PM
Tap tap tap.

This thing on?


Are you talking about 10 years ago when the WBB program was dead, or are you talking about the present?

If you can't change your expectations of a program after 10 years of the same leader, I would say you've got the wrong freaking leader running your program. Don't care what school you're at, or what type of program you have.

But did you expect great things from Sherri Coale? No. We hoped that it was a great hire, and it turned out to be more than a great hire. It turned out to be a historically great hire, but it wasn't expected. There are a great number of colleges who wish they could get someone like Sherri Coale, but they can't expect it.

I expect our football program to compete for national championships...because that is the kind of football program we have. I expect our men's gymnastic team and the women's softball team to compete at that level too...because they are those kind of programs. I hope and pray that we can build a basketball team that competes at the level the football team does, but I don't expect it. There are a very few college that can claim success like that, and expecting it is not only fantastical, but also arrogant in the extreme.

the_ouskull
3/20/2006, 11:56 PM
What developments?

the_ouskull

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/21/2006, 09:33 AM
What developments?

the_ouskull


I guess Sampson was caught with a brick of weed. Oh wait, that was Everett. Nevermind.

the_ouskull
3/21/2006, 10:38 AM
Yeah, pardon me if I don't have to hook my nipples to a car battery to shock myself after reading that.

the_ouskull

rhombic21
3/21/2006, 11:13 AM
I agree with your reasoning to a point, but your refute your own 'can't develop chemistry' argument. The Final Four and Elite Eight teams were loaded with JUCOs that had developed a lot of chemistry while at OU.

To compliment your argument, though, I think that Kelvin has a hard time getting HS talent to buy into his system, while JUCO players have a better understanding of post-HS basketball and are more willing to give it a shot.
Yeah, but also consider that Quannas and Hollis were teammates before they got to OU.

And as great as that team was, I don't think that you can consistently get those kinds of teams to gel like we did that year. That team had some very special character guys on it (Quannas and Hollis especially).

And after those guys graduated, we had NOBODY that could step up and continue the tradition. We were an NIT team the next year, and still haven't gotten anywhere near where the '01 team was, and realistically we're at least another year or two away from getting back there, assuming that this latest recruiting class actually sticks around and develops.

If you rely on JUCOs or transfers, then you're bound to be perpetually starting over after every season or two. That makes it very difficult to build a program that can maintain a high level of success.

sanantoniosooner
3/21/2006, 11:13 AM
Yeah, pardon me if I don't have to hook my nipples to a car battery to shock myself after reading that.

the_ouskull
You only save that for special occasions?

JohnnyMack
3/21/2006, 11:26 AM
I guess Sampson was caught with a brick of weed. Oh wait, that was Everett. Nevermind.

Glaucoma.

sanantoniosooner
3/21/2006, 11:27 AM
Glaucoma.
explains the team shooting.

stoopified
3/21/2006, 03:34 PM
False sense of entitlement my rear.

That's a real sense of entitlement dude. We want excellence in all sports. Especially the sports I like. :)

There's something wrong with wanting our hoops program to become a top program? If so, I'll go root for Duke
.You DO realize Kelvin IS the best coach we have ever had in men's hoops,right?Eleven trps to the NCAA in 12 years and the highest winning % in school history will attest to that.If we haven't been able to find a better coach in 100 years of OU basketball,what makes you think a Coach K type is just dying to come here now?

I am as frustrated as anybody with our lack of consistent NCAA sucess but I doubt that firing KS will bring in a slew of applicants who can do any better.

Sherry Coale has jumped off the map for two reasons- COURTNEY PARIS .If she had not gotten one of the top 2-3 players in the country to come here her squads would look a lot like KS squads.

Current regime ain't cuttin' it. It's time to clean house.
IF KS cannot make an impact with the players coming in this year than you will be proven right.IT will be time for a change.I do however offer this caveat: Change does not always go for the better(Blake replacing Schnelly ring a bell?).

the_ouskull
3/22/2006, 04:18 PM
You only save that for special occasions?

That's a personal attack. I should complain and have you banned, but I wouldn't know anything about that...

the_ouskull

LSUdeek
3/22/2006, 04:24 PM
I read this thread and I can't tell if I'm reading about Kelvin Sampson and OU or John Brady and LSU.

Soo.. sooo... sooooo many of the historical problems and issues are the same.

sanantoniosooner
3/22/2006, 07:51 PM
That's a personal attack. I should complain and have you banned, but I wouldn't know anything about that...

the_ouskull
I'd like to hear the admin response to the "personal attack". Just some South Oval flavor in the basketball forum.

Lighten up and fire back.

AZfanIII
3/22/2006, 08:47 PM
God only knows how good OU could've been had Kelvin Sampson gotten lost on his way to Norman. He's gone if and when the NCAA lowers the boom and good riddance.

the_ouskull
3/23/2006, 12:07 PM
I'd like to hear the admin response to the "personal attack". Just some South Oval flavor in the basketball forum.

Lighten up and fire back.

Nope. The last time I 'lightened up and fired back at you," I got banned. You'll pardon me for ignoring that "coinicidence." See, you like to drive-by, but when a better gangster with a bigger gun comes along, you like to call 911. I'll stay out of this hood today, thanks.

the_ouskull

sanantoniosooner
3/23/2006, 02:00 PM
Nope. The last time I 'lightened up and fired back at you," I got banned. You'll pardon me for ignoring that "coinicidence." See, you like to drive-by, but when a better gangster with a bigger gun comes along, you like to call 911. I'll stay out of this hood today, thanks.

the_ouskull
I have never asked for anyone to be banned here.

Believe it or not. Makes no difference to me.

I have asked for threads to be locked before.

I had no idea there was a problem and I wont kid around with you anymore since you think it's got some hidden agenda.

spaceman
3/23/2006, 07:47 PM
Frozen Sooner started a thread and made a number of great points, as has come to be expected with him. Please, allow me to try to make a few counterpoints in defense of Coach Sampson.

...but don't get me wrong. I'm not happy with the outcome of this season either. I just happen to have a bit more information to work with than many...

----------

Myth #1: Kelvin Sampson is not a good coach and we need to find a better one to replace him.

-- If Kelvin Sampson was not a good coach, he would not have 4 Conference Championships (3 tourney, 1 regular-season), a Sweet 16, an Elite 8, and a Final 4 under his belt... not to mention medalling with USA Basketball. Kelvin Sampson IS a good coach.the_ouskull

But, when you compare him to Tom Izzo, someone that shares the same coaching tree, the same coaching philosophy and similar tenure, then you get a totally different perspective.

the_ouskull
3/24/2006, 08:47 PM
I agree with that as well, however, Izzo is at more of a basketball school than a football school. Izzo is also in more of a HS basketball state, insofar as recruiting goes... Oklahoma's best players, year in and year out, you generally couldn't field a five man, D1 squad. Kelvin has to go out of state whereas Izzo could pretty much win with what's in his backyard... I'm not defending any of this argument, though. Just making some counterpoints. ...but you do bring up a great point about Izzo.

the_ouskull

rhombic21
3/24/2006, 11:24 PM
But, when you compare him to Tom Izzo, someone that shares the same coaching tree, the same coaching philosophy and similar tenure, then you get a totally different perspective.
Izzo is a great coach. Just because Kelvin can't replicate Izzo's success doesn't mean that Kelvin isn't also a good coach.

Big Red Ron
3/24/2006, 11:50 PM
Izzo is a great coach. Just because Kelvin can't replicate Izzo's success doesn't mean that Kelvin isn't also a good coach.I agree but how ever you slice it...Izzo > Sampson

spaceman
3/25/2006, 02:31 AM
Izzo is a great coach. Just because Kelvin can't replicate Izzo's success doesn't mean that Kelvin isn't also a good coach.The difference is Izzo is a much better recruiter. When it comes to recruiting, Kelvin always seems to be in a crisis mode. That explains why he has to go the juco route. Eventually, it catches up with you. That's why he couldn't capitalize on his Final Four and Elite Eight success. Last year is a good example. We saw how that turned out, and it looks like he is going to have to go the juco route again this year. Until he is able to recruit a couple of guards like Quannis and Hollis, he'll continue to get bounced out of the first round of the NCAA Tourny. Hopefully, Reynolds can fulfill part of that equation.

okienole3
3/25/2006, 10:08 AM
The difference is Izzo is a much better recruiter. When it comes to recruiting, Kelvin always seems to be in a crisis mode. That explains why he has to go the juco route. Eventually, it catches up with you. That's why he couldn't capitalize on his Final Four and Elite Eight success. Last year is a good example. We saw how that turned out, and it looks like he is going to have to go the juco route again this year. Until he is able to recruit a couple of guards like Quannis and Hollis, he'll continue to get bounced out of the first round of the NCAA Tourny. Hopefully, Reynolds can fulfill part of that equation.

1. We have all high school guys coming in this year.

2. Quannas was a JUCO.

william_brasky
3/25/2006, 10:15 AM
1. We have all high school guys coming in this year.


We'll most likely have a JUCO or 2 come in from what I've been hearing. 1 or more of the HS kids may not qualify.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/27/2006, 10:31 AM
I'd sure prefer (and probably KS for tha matter) that the recruiting classes be 80-90% high school players but if Clark and/or Mayfield don't qualify then I sure hope we land a good Juco. Certainly we've had some Juco's not work out but some of our biggest successes have been Juco's or transfers. Being that 4 of our top 5 scorers were Juco's or transfers last year.

Juco's are like chain restaurants. You usually have a pretty good idea of what you are getting. (Chris Walker being the exception) High school players are the unique restaurants where you might get the best meal you have ever had or you might get food poisoning.

the_ouskull
6/17/2010, 01:43 PM
Wait a minute? Attracting NBA potentials to OU would hurt the team?

Man, talk about your all-time backfires...

Sincerely,
Willie Warren
Keith Gallon

NormanPride
6/17/2010, 01:44 PM
*cough*

badger
6/17/2010, 02:05 PM
I still have faith in K-Pro and know that he and the OU athletic department can bring men's basketball back to the University of Oklahoma... not just winning, but winning the right way, without NCAA investigations all of the time.

These players he is bringing in now should have a chip on their shoulder as a bunch of misfits that only got scholarships because our Mickie D's were forced out early. That alone should get us some big upsets this coming season.

If not, well, there's always womens basketball :)

Gandalf_The_Grey
6/18/2010, 06:47 AM
I still think you guys are too hard on Sampson, he will get this basketball team turned around!

stoopified
6/18/2010, 08:22 AM
I still think you guys are too hard on Sampson, he will get this basketball team turned around!Funny stuff :D