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View Full Version : Anti-smoking nazi's win one in CA



Okla-homey
3/18/2006, 03:57 PM
Wake up America!;)

I know I'm in the minority on this issue here in the SO, but I maintain this is a fundamental personal freedom issue. Call me nutz, but if we as a society stay on this path it may not end until the day comes when anything you do someone else finds offensive could result in a ticket.

Also important to note, tobacco is still legally sold in this town. It is also heavily taxed (presumably "for the children") just like it is at any non-indian owned tobacco retailer (feather, not dot) in America. Also worth noting, the folks who farm the tobacco receive federal and state subsidies depending on their circumstances.

See, government won't dare outlaw this product it officially maintains is horribly deadly to anyone even briefly exposed to second-hand smoke because they want the flippin' tax revenue. Instead, they just try to fence in users while raking in the dough from tobacco sales. Ain't hypocrisy wunnerful?

People shouldn't smoke. Its bad for them. But this is just crazy and I maintain that the notion temporary/brief exposure to even outdoor ciggy smoke is dangerous is just junk science that people buy into because it seems a more morally defensible position than trying to ban smoking simply because it stinks -- which is really what's going on.


Snuff Out Those Cigarettes in Calabasas

CALABASAS - Life will be a drag for smokers in the city of Calabasas starting today, when a strict ban on lighting up in most outdoor spaces takes effect.

The ban, perhaps the most comprehensive smoking ban in the United States, prohibits smoking in all public places at times when other people can be exposed to secondhand smoke. Businesses can apply to create a designated smoking area far away from non-smokers starting in April.

The "Comprehensive Secondhand Smoke Control Ordinance" includes indoor and outdoor businesses, hotels, parks, sidewalks, restaurants and bars where people can be reasonably expected to congregate or meet, according to an announcement from the city of Calabasas.

Mayor Barry Groveman, a former prosecutor who co-wrote Proposition 65, a 1986 statute requiring businesses to post warnings if they expose people to potentially dangerous substances, came up with the idea of outlawing smoking in communal outdoor spaces -- at least in the horsey suburban town of 30,000.

Smoking has been banned on most Southern California beaches over the past two years. Some cities outlaw smoking in or near playgrounds and parks.

Groveman said he hoped the law would prompt operators of spaces such as malls and restaurants to establish segregated places to smoke.

People will still be allowed to smoke in their homes. [for now]

"The only exception is if your apartment, back yard or balcony is directly adjacent to a common area, such as a laundry room or pool," the city announced in a list of frequently asked questions on its Web site.

Applications for designated smoking areas will be available on the Web site some time in the beginning of April, they said.

Smokers who can't or won't kick the habit can still light up in public as long as they are "at least 20 feet away from any path of travel, doorway or place where people congregate."

If someone complains, the smoker will have to extinguish the cigarette or move, according to the ordinance.

People violating the ban will be ticketed and possibly fined. The city said it expects to rely on warnings and citations but will consider more serious penalties for willful or repeat offenders. [aw heck, just shoot them in the head...after all, that ciggy smoke is definitely killing anyone outdoors who passes within 20 feet of it right?]

SicEmBaylor
3/18/2006, 04:00 PM
I completely agree with you. It's the violation of personal property rights which upsets me.

Gandalf_The_Grey
3/18/2006, 04:13 PM
I wish they would load up skanky women, it hurts my eyes, maybe we can genetically weed out the undesirables.

Gandalf_The_Grey
3/18/2006, 04:14 PM
What if people come to visit them, should their guests be forced to die because you want to smoke or what if those toxins seep under the door way and instantly wipes out 10 innocent people...let's just illegalize it. What if Al-Qaeda gets their hands on some tabacco, they could kill us all :(

Cam
3/18/2006, 04:20 PM
I'm all about the non-smoking in restraunts.

This, however, is going a little to the extreme IMO. If I rent an apartment and smoking is allowed, I'm pretty damn sure I've rented the balcony as well as the interior space.

Okla-homey
3/18/2006, 04:24 PM
What if people come to visit them, should their guests be forced to die because you want to smoke or what if those toxins seep under the door way and instantly wipes out 10 innocent people...let's just illegalize it. What if Al-Qaeda gets their hands on some tabacco, they could kill us all :(

These are all good points. Second-hand tobacco smoke is some ferociously fatal shiite. Its equivalent to spewing nerve gas on unsuspecting innocent passers by.

VeeJay
3/18/2006, 04:32 PM
How do the personal freedom defenders feel about airlines?

1988, I believe, was the year U.S. airlines banned smoking on all domestic flights.

I fall on the side of clean air, even though I'm on the side of personal freedoms/liberties on nearly everything.

I will never forget the four hour long meeting I attended with supermarket managers in eastern N.C. early on in my career (1990). A room of 40 people and I do believe I was the only one not smoking. Halfway through the meeting I couldn't even see the other side. When I got home, I showered and threw my clothes away. Sick at my stomach, too.

I dunno - I understand both arguments, but from someone whose personal preferences are served by "the Nazi's" - I'm on board.

We've had restaurant ban on smoking in South Florida for about a decade now.

Okla-homey
3/18/2006, 04:56 PM
VJ,

I concede it stinks and trapping people aboard jets, busses and trains with smoke succs because its yucky and I'm okay with that banning. I also agree that if people hate ciggy smoke, they should be able to enjoy a meal and not smell it. All I'm saying is in a free society it should be a market driven business decision if a place is "smoke-free," particularly given the gaping holes in the theory that occasional/temporary exposure to ciggy smoke does any harm.

It bugs me when government intervenes and dictates to property owners (restauranteurs, bar owners, businessmen, etc.) that they must not allow people to use a legal product on their premises justifying it on trumped-up "science" compiled by ardent anti-smoking folks.

I also think this sort of thing wouldn't go over as easy if they were forced to be intellectually honest with us and just admitted its more about banning unpleasant smells than protecting public health. Unfortunately, "banning unpleasantness" is a slippery slope because as you know, those are pretty subjective criteria. Heck, they might have to close down every oil refinery in America and Sulphur OK to boot.;)

Tailwind
3/18/2006, 05:12 PM
Word.

Rogue
3/18/2006, 05:49 PM
This movement is upheld by reformed smokers who are also vegetarians. I'm against them as a matter of principle.

Gandalf_The_Grey
3/18/2006, 05:54 PM
The thing that bugs me is your see these people that smoked for 40 years getting lung cancer...it took them 40 years to get it and yet somehow second hand smoke is going to take me down in those same 40 years. Banning it in restaurants is more of a making people comfortable thing. Do I like smoking while I am eating...not really. Now I would rather the business say we don't allow smoking because it hurts the mood of the restaurant rather than the Government say they are going to make some Tobacco fairy stop darkening my lungs.

Ike
3/18/2006, 06:04 PM
I'm a smoker. I like having my 5 minute or so 'timeout' from the world while I damage my lungs. Gives me time to process or think about things in a serene environment, and usually keeps people I don't want to be around in the first place away from me. Anyway, I'm fine with banning it in Restaurants (although, I would like to see provisions for smoking-only restaurants as well), as well as banning it on planes, and other buildings. Nobody should be forced to be trapped indoors with a bunch of smoke. I'm fine with that. I get it. But really, it should stop there. Outdoors, the smoke has so much more space to dissipate to, that by the time secondhand smoke gets to anybody (unless they are maybe sitting right next to a smoker, and thats their choice) it has dissipated so much that there is no way it would be dangerous. It's a personal choice, and yeah, right now smokers are the easy target for every new law that gets passed in a city. especially for taxes. I realize that governments are doing this to try to encourage people to quit (or so they say). I wish they'd stop it. If they want me to quit, please, just go ahead and outlaw them. seriously. I don't need government, or all you ****in know-it-alls out there to save me. I smoke for because a) I'm addicted, and b) because I enjoy it. a lot. I know it's bad for me. I know it's real bad for me. so non-smoking-nazi's, when you see me light up, instead of telling me how many years it's taking off my life, why don't you concentrate on getting one of your own. I like my life, and if it gets cut short because of the bad decisions I've made, then it gets cut short. there are more important things to worry about than how long I live.


sorry about the rant, but it's people that push through things like this that really make me want to go out drown their kittens until they die from it.

Nab'R
3/18/2006, 06:11 PM
Smoking around others is like playing music really loud. It doesn't really hurt anyone, but it's annoying. They're just passing an anti-annoyance law. That's OK, isn't it?

Substitute "playing music too loud" for "smoking". It works.


Snuff Out That Loud Music in Calabasas

CALABASAS - Life will be a drag for players of music too loud in the city of Calabasas starting today, when a strict ban on playing music too loud in most outdoor spaces takes effect.

The ban, perhaps the most comprehensive playing music too loud ban in the United States, prohibits playing music too loud in all public places at times when other people can be exposed to loud music. Businesses can apply to create a designated loud music area far away from non-loud music lovers starting in April.

The "Comprehensive Secondhand Loud Music Listeners Control Ordinance" includes indoor and outdoor businesses, hotels, parks, sidewalks, restaurants and bars where people can be reasonably expected to congregate or meet, according to an announcement from the city of Calabasas.

Mayor Barry Groveman, a former prosecutor who co-wrote Proposition 65, a 1986 statute requiring businesses to post warnings if they expose people to potentially dangerous substances, came up with the idea of outlawing playing music too loud in communal outdoor spaces -- at least in the horsey suburban town of 30,000.

Playing music too loud has been banned on most Southern California beaches over the past two years. Some cities outlaw playing music too loud in or near playgrounds and parks.

Groveman said he hoped the law would prompt operators of spaces such as malls and restaurants to establish segregated places to play music too loud.

People will still be allowed to playing music too loud in their homes. [for now]

"The only exception is if your apartment, back yard or balcony is directly adjacent to a common area, such as a laundry room or pool," the city announced in a list of frequently asked questions on its Web site.

Applications for designated playing music too loud areas will be available on the Web site some time in the beginning of April, they said.

Loud music players who can't or won't kick the habit can still play music too loud in public as long as they are "at least 20 feet away from any path of travel, doorway or place where people congregate."

If someone complains, the loud music player will have to turn the music off or move, according to the ordinance.

People violating the ban will be ticketed and possibly fined. The city said it expects to rely on warnings and citations but will consider more serious penalties for willful or repeat offenders.

sanantoniosooner
3/18/2006, 06:14 PM
Smoking is one of the most selfish acts on the planet.

On many levels.

And quit throwing those butts on the ground. It's not like birds eat them.

jdsooner
3/18/2006, 06:18 PM
Smoking sucks. Literally.

Howzit
3/18/2006, 06:20 PM
I am in favor of genetically altered cig butt-munching fowl.

sanantoniosooner
3/18/2006, 06:22 PM
I am in favor of genetically altered cig butt-munching fowl.
We've got some fowl butt-munchers here. It would be a small alteration.

VeeJay
3/18/2006, 06:30 PM
Spek to all who's posting on this because I don't think there's a "wrong" answer.

I grew up around smokers - my dad, my uncle, my grandfathers, etc. Hell, my great grandfather grew his own tobacco. It's a part of our culture and a part of our origin (at least if your origin is a dirt poor Scottish-Irish farmer trying to eek out an existence on unsettled bottom land).

Ike - we (anti-public smoking folks) aren't all lock step Nazi's trying to take away anybody's freedoms. I would say that, most of my friends, and nearly all my girlfriends, in the past have been smokers, at least at one time or another. But, I've also seen lung cancer deaths. Back to my family background - my dad's first cousin passed away a few years ago - a lifelong smoker. The last time I saw him he'd ballooned to over 300 lbs. because of the prednisone. His walk from his car to the funeral parlor (he was next) of about 30 steps took his breath away. When he sat down he immediately had to put an oxygen inhaler to his face. That's what smoking did to him by the age of 60.

I'm not lecturing and didn't mean to get on this. We all have our reasons for siding on this issue.

tulsaoilerfan
3/18/2006, 06:47 PM
I am glad they have banned smoking in restaurants and a lot of public places, but think of how much productivity that employers are losing because i ALWAYS see people outside puffing away that should be inside working; wonder if anyone has done a study on that yet?

john

Okla-homey
3/18/2006, 06:48 PM
Smoking around others is like playing music really loud. It doesn't really hurt anyone, but it's annoying. They're just passing an anti-annoyance law. That's OK, isn't it?

Substitute "playing music too loud" for "smoking". It works.

Depends on the music doesn't it? If its "Boomer Sooner" it is impossible to play it too loud. If its that "I been workin' on the railroad" dealio, playing it on a kazoo should be banned and offenders should be shot in the left eyeball.

Sooner_Bob
3/18/2006, 10:44 PM
Smoking around others is like playing music really loud. It doesn't really hurt anyone, but it's annoying. They're just passing an anti-annoyance law. That's OK, isn't it?

Substitute "playing music too loud" for "smoking". It works.



I think annoying about covers it . . . :texan: