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jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/17/2006, 04:21 PM
in most losses to a 13 or higher seed?

Newbomb Turk
3/17/2006, 04:22 PM
Syracuse?

oumartin
3/17/2006, 04:35 PM
arizona

King Crimson
3/17/2006, 04:37 PM
arizona was my guess, too.

Big Red Ron
3/17/2006, 04:38 PM
How many of those losses were Kelvin's Krew?

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/17/2006, 05:54 PM
3 for OU (2 for kelvin)
3 for arizona

oumartin
3/17/2006, 05:55 PM
thats right beyonches!

bow down to the basketball master :D

King Crimson
3/17/2006, 05:56 PM
thats right beyonches!

bow down to the basketball master :D

easy now hot pants.

TopDawg
3/17/2006, 06:05 PM
3 for arizona

One of them - Oklahoma (under Kelvin)

oumartin
3/17/2006, 06:07 PM
depends on if it was really basket interference on the game winner ;)

King Crimson
3/17/2006, 06:08 PM
depends on if it was really basket interference on the game winner ;)

i think we got lucky on that one.

Boffingham
3/17/2006, 06:39 PM
that's the one where he stepped over the line as he threw the ball in which gave us the ball for the win

soonerbub
3/17/2006, 10:17 PM
Was Billy's loss to the Flyers or the Ragin Cajuns?

Kind of ironic that we are 3-0 against Lute in the dance--we are his kryptonite

Big Red Ron
3/17/2006, 10:53 PM
One of them - Oklahoma (under Kelvin)Good point there pumper. ;) :D

Soonerus
3/17/2006, 10:56 PM
We have had some really close calls...

GrapevineSooner
3/17/2006, 11:55 PM
Was Billy's loss to the Flyers or the Ragin Cajuns?

Kind of ironic that we are 3-0 against Lute in the dance--we are his kryptonite

That one was to the Cajuns in Tempe.

If we had had Bryan Sallier for that game, we would have won. As I recall, the Cajuns beat us with their outside shooting that day, but had no inside game.

GrapevineSooner
3/17/2006, 11:56 PM
At least Kelvin never lost to 13 and 14 seeds in back to back years in the first round.

Like Bill Self is about to do.

Salt City Sooner
3/18/2006, 12:29 AM
They also made mention that today (as an 8 seed) was Arizona's first win EVER as less than a 5.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/18/2006, 12:50 AM
That one was to the Cajuns in Tempe.

If we had had Bryan Sallier for that game, we would have won. As I recall, the Cajuns beat us with their outside shooting that day, but had no inside game.

the cajuns pwned us. they are also the team that broke billy's 100 point winning streak...

TopDawg
3/19/2006, 10:46 AM
depends on if it was really basket interference on the game winner ;)

http://www.theslant.com/jam/images/downer.jpg

oumartin
3/19/2006, 11:15 AM
At least Kelvin never lost to 13 and 14 seeds in back to back years in the first round.

thats cuz Kelvin can't get his team seeded that high constantly!

TopDawg
3/19/2006, 02:32 PM
thats cuz Kelvin can't get his team seeded that high constantly!

In five of our last six trips we've been seeded 3 or better, meaning we played either a 14, 15 and 16 seed.

Tell us again why you came back to the basketball board.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 02:42 PM
and he's gone how far with those teams? tell us again why you love Kelvin so much?

oh yeah, you love him cuz he does what 70 other programs do every year. He wins 20 teams. recruits unathletic players and any true talent seems to find their way onto other teams..

SeattleOUstudent
3/19/2006, 05:23 PM
3 for OU (2 for kelvin)
3 for arizona

and Kansas... 2 for Bill Self

oumartin
3/19/2006, 05:31 PM
and and alot of kansas fans are wanting to run Self off.

NickZeppelin
3/19/2006, 05:57 PM
Before Bradley won we were also the last 13 seed to make the Sweet 16.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 06:03 PM
One problem Nick. OU is a program that should never be a #13 seed.

Big Red Ron
3/19/2006, 06:03 PM
Before Bradley won we were also the last 13 seed to make the Sweet 16.Woo hoo there's a bit of triva I could stand not knowing.

Here's one for you...What school was won the most NCAA tourney games without winning a championship?

NickZeppelin
3/19/2006, 06:04 PM
We shouldn't have even been in the NCAA Tourney that year honestly. Billy didn't leave much talent for Kelvin to do a lot in the early year but Kelvin still made the most of it.

Big Red Ron
3/19/2006, 06:10 PM
We shouldn't have even been in the NCAA Tourney that year honestly. Billy didn't leave much talent for Kelvin to do a lot in the early year but Kelvin still made the most of it.Yeah, he just left him the best player Kelvin has had here at OU.

Harry Beanbag
3/19/2006, 06:16 PM
Here's one for you...What school was won the most NCAA tourney games without winning a championship?


Illinois

Big Red Ron
3/19/2006, 06:19 PM
IllinoisIf they won this year. I didn't notice. I do know we were tied with them for that 'honor' until last week.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 06:25 PM
hey Nick. looks like we really didnt' belong in the tournament this year either huh?

TopDawg
3/19/2006, 07:04 PM
and he's gone how far with those teams? tell us again why you love Kelvin so much?

oh yeah, you love him cuz he does what 70 other programs do every year. He wins 20 teams. recruits unathletic players and any true talent seems to find their way onto other teams..

If the only accomplishment on Kelvin's resume was "consecutive 20 win seasons" I probably wouldn't endorse him.

TopDawg
3/19/2006, 07:05 PM
Yeah, he just left him the best player Kelvin has had here at OU.

Hollis Price was a Tubbs recruit?

TopDawg
3/19/2006, 07:06 PM
hey Nick. looks like we really didnt' belong in the tournament this year either huh?

If losing in the first round means you don't belong in the tournament, then the committee really screwed up this year by putting 32 teams in the tournament who didn't belong.

Big Red Ron
3/19/2006, 07:09 PM
Hollis Price was a Tubbs recruit?No, Ryan Minor was.

oumartin
3/19/2006, 08:08 PM
geeze you *** kissers get old.

Cam
3/19/2006, 08:15 PM
If the only accomplishment on Kelvin's resume was "consecutive 20 win seasons" I probably wouldn't endorse him.
So, do you feel his list of accomplishments is sufficient for a 12 year run?

Out of a possible 36 trophies he could've won, he's won a total of 4. Is that enough?

Bill Self has won 3 in 2 years and they're ready to hang him because of his 1st round losses.

NickZeppelin
3/19/2006, 10:33 PM
Yeah, he just left him the best player Kelvin has had here at OU.

Nothing against Minor but I think Eduardo and Hollis were atleast just as good if not better.

RacerX
3/20/2006, 10:17 AM
hey Nick. looks like we really didnt' belong in the tournament this year either huh?

Nope. :( Some other deserving MVC school should've been in the tourney.

MojoRisen
3/20/2006, 10:51 AM
Nothing against Minor but I think Eduardo and Hollis were atleast just as good if not better.

Eduardo was a different kind of player- and Hollis close- but was not as capable of creating a shot while being guarded as Minor-

Minor technically was more of a handfull than either of those guys-

okienole3
3/20/2006, 11:06 AM
Nothing against Minor but I think Eduardo and Hollis were atleast just as good if not better.

Question Nick, how old were you when Minor played? That dude could score the basketball.

As for the talent on the 95 team. I think it is comparable to most Sampson teams, sans the final four team. John Ontjes may have been Sampson's best point guard. It is close between him and Q. You also had a solid 6th man in Dion Barnes. Plus, Prince Fowler was one of the top recruits in the country. He followed Billy and his style to TCU and never really panned out.

NickZeppelin
3/20/2006, 12:43 PM
Minor could definatly play. He was great in college. But I wouldn't put him ahead of Eduardo and Hollis all around. Those guys were great defenders and did the little things better then Minor did.

As far as the 95 team, the starting 5 was pretty good but the depth on that team stunk. They played pretty much 6 guys. Minor, Abercrombie, Ontjes, Barnes, Fowler, Curry and maybe you can count Yanish as the 7th guy.

TopDawg
3/20/2006, 03:17 PM
So, do you feel his list of accomplishments is sufficient for a 12 year run?

Out of a possible 36 trophies he could've won, he's won a total of 4. Is that enough?


Fair enough. But you could also say that out of the last 12 Big XII trophies that have been handed out, Sampson has won 1/3rd.

Or, out of the last 18 total trophies he could have won, he's won 4.

But if you don't want to play the "what have you done for me lately" game, we'll look at his whole career here and compare it to Tubbs.

In 14 years for Tubbs (42 possible trophies), he won 7 (4 regular season, 3 tournament). That's 17%.

Sampson's rate? 11%. So a slightly lower rate. But, it's worth noting that it's easier to win a trophy competing against 7 teams, than 11.

But there's no arguing that Sampson hasn't won as many trophies as Tubbs in two fewer years. We'll see how these next two go.

I think it's also worth noting that Sampson has a higher overall winning percentage and a higher conference winning percentage than Tubbs. Sure, he hasn't be able to turn those into as many trophies, but it's nothing to be ashamed of.

Sampson's biggest downfall? Tubbs had a 15-9 tourney record while Sampson is sitting at 11-11. That's nothing for Sampson to hang his hat on, but he's only missed the tournament one year, which is a better rate than Tubbs had.

Wait, perhaps Sampson's biggest downfall isn't the tourney record, but this one:

OU's avg. score under Tubbs: 86
OU's avg. score under Sampson: 73

Ya know, honestly I could understand all the Sampson complaints if his resume was flipped. If all of his success came in the 90's and he hadn't won a trophy since 99. But it's the exact opposite. His greatest successes have come in the last 6 years. Sure, we've also seen some of his greatest disappointments during those times, but that's the way it works with higher expectations. Sometimes it doesn't work out. But if Sampson can string together 4 trophies, 1 Final Four, and 1 Elite Eight in 6 years, I'll give him a down year or two in there. Especially if "down year" means Top 25 most of the season, 3rd in the conference and tournament appearance.

Big Red Ron
3/20/2006, 06:39 PM
More is better, right daug?

Cam
3/20/2006, 09:38 PM
Why is it that Tubbs is always brought into the discussion? Seriously, I'd like each and every one of the pro-Sampson bretheren to answer that question. Is it too much to look at the complete body of work for one coach and then make a decision? The basketball was different, the kids were different.

Fine, I'll play that game as well. You can easily argue the same points on both sides.

20 win seasons:
Sampson: 9
Tubbs: 12 (consecutive years)
I would argue that when you play 30, you sure as hell better be able to win 20 more often than not. Not a bragging point for either one IMHO.

30 win season:
Sampson: 1 (31)
Tubbs: 3 (high 35)

NCAA Tourney:
Both made it quite a bit at OU. But, let's be honest about it. You've got to be pretty bad in the Big 12 to not make the tourney. Most years, half the freaking league goes. Why is it wrong to want more to get happy about than just getting to the tourney?

Hardware:
Sampson: 3.5
3 Big 12 tourney wins with what was far and away his best team. Exactly 1/2 of a regular season title, and we had to back door into that one. Hell, Dave Bliss won a regular season title and I don't think you're going to find anybody here who wants him back...
Tubbs: 7
4 Regular season titles, 3 conference tourney titles.

Overall Winning %:
Sampson: 72.1%
Tubbs: 71.6%
Yeah, that's head and shoulders better than Tubbs. :rolleyes:

In-conference winning %:
Sampson: 68.1% (128-60)
Tubbs: 64.3% (126-70)
What's that translate to? 1 freaking game per year. Wow, quite a bit better there as well...

I can play the stats game all day long. IMO, it's not about Sampson vs Tubbs. Tubbs shouldn't even be brought into the discussion as far as I'm concerned.

What do you think the state of the program is? Has it progressed the last 3 years, or has it just sort of been there? IMO, it's just sort of been there. I think that Sampson's done all he can do. Is part of it that KS ball is as boring as watching paint dry? Sure is. It's tough to get excited about something when you have a better than average idea of what's going to happen since you've seen the same thing happen time and time again.


Fair enough. But you could also say that out of the last 12 Big XII trophies that have been handed out, Sampson has won 1/3rd. Or, out of the last 18 total trophies he could have won, he's won 4.

But if you don't want to play the "what have you done for me lately" game, we'll look at his whole career here and compare it to Tubbs.

In 14 years for Tubbs (42 possible trophies), he won 7 (4 regular season, 3 tournament). That's 17%.

Sampson's rate? 11%. So a slightly lower rate. But, it's worth noting that it's easier to win a trophy competing against 7 teams, than 11.

But there's no arguing that Sampson hasn't won as many trophies as Tubbs in two fewer years. We'll see how these next two go.

I think it's also worth noting that Sampson has a higher overall winning percentage and a higher conference winning percentage than Tubbs. Sure, he hasn't be able to turn those into as many trophies, but it's nothing to be ashamed of.

Sampson's biggest downfall? Tubbs had a 15-9 tourney record while Sampson is sitting at 11-11. That's nothing for Sampson to hang his hat on, but he's only missed the tournament one year, which is a better rate than Tubbs had.

Wait, perhaps Sampson's biggest downfall isn't the tourney record, but this one:

OU's avg. score under Tubbs: 86
OU's avg. score under Sampson: 73

Ya know, honestly I could understand all the Sampson complaints if his resume was flipped. If all of his success came in the 90's and he hadn't won a trophy since 99. But it's the exact opposite. His greatest successes have come in the last 6 years. Sure, we've also seen some of his greatest disappointments during those times, but that's the way it works with higher expectations. Sometimes it doesn't work out. But if Sampson can string together 4 trophies, 1 Final Four, and 1 Elite Eight in 6 years, I'll give him a down year or two in there. Especially if "down year" means Top 25 most of the season, 3rd in the conference and tournament appearance.

TopDawg
3/20/2006, 10:09 PM
Why is it that Tubbs is always brought into the discussion? Seriously, I'd like each and every one of the pro-Sampson bretheren to answer that question.

It's been my experience that the anti-Sampson people bring him in first. I brought him in because I thought it was the measure that most anti-Sampson people wanted to use. My bad.


Overall Winning %:
Sampson: 72.1%
Tubbs: 71.6%
Yeah, that's head and shoulders better than Tubbs. :rolleyes:

In-conference winning %:
Sampson: 68.1% (128-60)
Tubbs: 64.3% (126-70)
What's that translate to? 1 freaking game per year. Wow, quite a bit better there as well...

C'mon Cam, you know me better than to think I was trying to say Sampson was head and shoulders better than Tubbs. I'm fighting the impression I get from some that Tubbs is heads and shoulders better than Sampson.



What do you think the state of the program is? Has it progressed the last 3 years, or has it just sort of been there?

Well, backdoor or not, we won a conference championship LAST YEAR. We earned it, it wasn't given to us. Sure, our program's not at the level it was 3 years ago (despite the fact that we didn't win the RS championship that year) but I think it's poised to get there.

Sampson had 1 or 2 (or 1.5...basketball recruiting confuses me) bad recruiting classes that didn't pan out the way he expected. They were highly touted players, but they didn't work out. I'm hoping he learned his lesson and that the guys he's bringing in now are better equiped to thrive in his system.


IMO, it's just sort of been there. I think that Sampson's done all he can do.

I just have a problem stating that it's just been there when a conference championship is part of that time frame. But maybe you're right on your second point. Maybe Sampson has done all he can do. Maybe we'll look back a few years from now and wish we'd've gotten rid of him sooner. But, like I said earlier, when he's given us 4 trophies, 1 Final Four, and 1 Elite Eight in 6 years, I'll give him a down year or two, especially when a year like this one is considered a down year.

oumartin
3/20/2006, 10:15 PM
I don't bring tubbs into squat!

Kelvin is boring, his teams are boring, he's no longer the high character guy we thought he was. and for me, the clincher is him wanting out.
See Ya, Take that 20 win average and probation with ya bud

TopDawg
3/20/2006, 10:21 PM
But, at any rate, the stat you threw out there that I was primarily responding to was:


So, do you feel his list of accomplishments is sufficient for a 12 year run?

Out of a possible 36 trophies he could've won, he's won a total of 4. Is that enough?

and you're simultaneously stating that our program is not progressing. But I maintain that you're holding the first half of Sampson's tenure against him. Sure, he's only won 4 out of 36, but after going 0-for-18 to start, he's won 4 out of the last 18. That's progress. And it's not like those 4 were all concentrated in two years. They were spread out over 4 of the last 6 years, including last year.

It seems like the anti-Sampson crowd wants to (a) wipe out all Hollis-assisted accomplishments and (b) treat last year's trophy like the exception to the rule when, in fact, this season and the 2004 season have been the exceptions of the rules over the past 6 or 7 years.

TopDawg
3/20/2006, 10:24 PM
I don't bring tubbs into squat!

Kelvin is boring, his teams are boring, he's no longer the high character guy we thought he was. and for me, the clincher is him wanting out.
See Ya, Take that 20 win average and probation with ya bud

Man, if you could focus this passion towards something good, you might be the next Mother Theresa.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I think all anti-Samspon people bring up Tubbs. I don't feel that way. It just seems that, more often than not, when people stand Sampson up to a measuring stick, it's Tubbs.

picasso
3/20/2006, 10:26 PM
Arizona never had Jason Yannish.

TopDawg
3/20/2006, 10:28 PM
Arizona never had Jason Yannish.

THREAD JACKER!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:



oh...wait...heh :O

Cam
3/20/2006, 11:15 PM
Last year was his ONLY regular season conference crown. How is that not an exception to the rule?

I'm looking at the entire career, that's why I say I've seen enough. I'd like to see somebody come in who can take the program farther. I'm not so sure that Kelvin's done that.

IMO, the Hollis Price years are the exception to the Kelvin Sampson rule, not the norm.

But, at any rate, the stat you threw out there that I was primarily responding to was:



and you're simultaneously stating that our program is not progressing. But I maintain that you're holding the first half of Sampson's tenure against him. Sure, he's only won 4 out of 36, but after going 0-for-18 to start, he's won 4 out of the last 18. That's progress. And it's not like those 4 were all concentrated in two years. They were spread out over 4 of the last 6 years, including last year.

It seems like the anti-Sampson crowd wants to (a) wipe out all Hollis-assisted accomplishments and (b) treat last year's trophy like the exception to the rule when, in fact, this season and the 2004 season have been the exceptions of the rules over the past 6 or 7 years.

NickZeppelin
3/21/2006, 12:02 AM
Hollis Price lost 2 of his the first 3 Tourney games he played in. And wasn't really a huge factor in the Elite 8 run because of injury.

PrideTrombone
3/21/2006, 12:05 AM
Hollis Price lost 2 of his the first 3 Tourney games he played in. And wasn't really a huge factor in the Elite 8 run because of injury.

Yeah, he really sucked. :rolleyes:

picasso
3/21/2006, 12:06 AM
Hollis Price lost 2 of his the first 3 Tourney games he played in. And wasn't really a huge factor in the Elite 8 run because of injury.
wasn't all his fault. he played awesome as a freshamn against MSU. I'll admit he layed an egg against Indiana in the Final Four but he's one of the main reasons we went on the 4 year run with Duke.

and Duke had no Jason Yannish.

oumartin
3/21/2006, 12:12 AM
I still remember hollis stepping up to the free throw line against Mizzou in the big 12 tournament as a freshman. money!

soonermark
3/21/2006, 12:14 AM
Regular season accomplishments are great, but would you rather have a season like KU, co-champs of the regular season and tourney champs, then get bounced in the first round, or Bradley, who won neither regular season or conference tourney, but has a chance to be in the elite eight? Having both would be great of course, but if I had to choose it would definitely be the latter.

TopDawg
3/21/2006, 01:23 AM
Last year was his ONLY regular season conference crown. How is that not an exception to the rule?

If that was the only championship in the discussion, you'd have a point. But there are 3 others we've been speaking about. Over the past 8 years success (defined as either a conference championship, tourney championship or a trip to the Sweet 16) is the norm. There have only been 3 years we didn't achieve any of those things and in one of those years we still finished ranked around 15.


I'm looking at the entire career, that's why I say I've seen enough. I'd like to see somebody come in who can take the program farther. I'm not so sure that Kelvin's done that.

I, too, would like to have a coach who can take the program farther. The difference is that I think we have him. I think Sampson can take this team farther than he already has. Just last year he took them farther than he had before by winning his first RS conference championship. The recruits influenced by that year are going to be on campus next year. Let's see what he can do with 'em.

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 07:09 AM
I, too, would like to have a coach who can take the program farther. The difference is that I think we have him. I think Sampson can take this team farther than he already has. Just last year he took them farther than he had before by winning his first RS conference championship. The recruits influenced by that year are going to be on campus next year. Let's see what he can do with 'em.


What happens when Clark and Mayfield don't qualify, and Reynolds and James get fed up and transfer after one or two seasons?

TopDawg
3/21/2006, 10:03 AM
What happens when Clark and Mayfield don't qualify, and Reynolds and James get fed up and transfer after one or two seasons?

What happens when Reynolds and James lead us to back-to-back national championships?

Come on, dude. You're more reasonable than that. I mean, if you'd like, we can lay out every last single possible scenario and I can let you know how I'd feel if/when that happened, but it'd be an exercise in futility. Obviously if your scenario pans out, I'd be upset and, if Sampson wasn't able to do anything with the rest of the players on the team, my support for him would depend largely on the results of those seasons.

Look, it's not like most of the Sampson supporters are blind-faith kinda people. I can't speak for the others, but if he doesn't produce favorable results, I'd rather have a coach who will. But, to me, I count conference and tournament championships as favorable results. I count Sweet 16, Elite Eight and Final Four showings as favorable results. Sure, I'd prefer to win a national championship, but I'm not willing to run off every coach who doesn't win a national championship in their first 15 years as long as they're producing favorable results more often than not.

MojoRisen
3/21/2006, 10:06 AM
truthly- I am just real dissapointed we didn't capture the Final 4 and elite 8 years into a building block- 3 years down and it is tough to deal with when we looked so pitiful this year- but you know if it weren't for the cheating and such there would not be as much angst I am sure.

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 10:12 AM
What happens when Reynolds and James lead us to back-to-back national championships?

Come on, dude. You're more reasonable than that. I mean, if you'd like, we can lay out every last single possible scenario and I can let you know how I'd feel if/when that happened, but it'd be an exercise in futility. Obviously if your scenario pans out, I'd be upset and, if Sampson wasn't able to do anything with the rest of the players on the team, my support for him would depend largely on the results of those seasons.

Look, it's not like most of the Sampson supporters are blind-faith kinda people. I can't speak for the others, but if he doesn't produce favorable results, I'd rather have a coach who will. But, to me, I count conference and tournament championships as favorable results. I count Sweet 16, Elite Eight and Final Four showings as favorable results. Sure, I'd prefer to win a national championship, but I'm not willing to run off every coach who doesn't win a national championship in their first 15 years as long as they're producing favorable results more often than not.


I'm not on the Fire Calvin bandwagon yet. I was just pointing out his history with high profile recruits is flat out ****ty. Can you name one that hasn't transferred out of the program? I can think of Alexander, Lavender, Foust, and Humphrey. None of them finished their careers in Norman. Now his best class (on paper) is coming in and they are all high profile. I'm just not convinced that he's learned to deal with outstanding talent and I'm apprehensive about what is going to happen, especially if there is probation involved.

I don't care who the coach is as long as his team performs. Sampson is fine, I just think he could be doing better. Not having a football team offensive line-like attrition rate would help.

TopDawg
3/21/2006, 10:13 AM
truthly- I am just real dissapointed we didn't capture the Final 4 and elite 8 years into a building block- 3 years down and it is tough to deal with when we looked so pitiful this year- but you know if it weren't for the cheating and such there would not be as much angst I am sure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm dissapointed too. But it's not like we've had 3 years of steady decline. We had an expected drop-off when we lost all the guys from our Elite Eight team. The following year we achieved something we'd never achieved before: a RS conference championship. This year, we didn't meet the expectations, but we still finished the regular season ranked in the Top 25 and finished 3rd in the conference (admitedly on a down year).

I think, like many of Sampson's years, our tournament lack-of-success has overshadowed the other accomplishments of the past 2-3 years. And, don't get me wrong, it's frustrating to me. I'm sure it's frustrating to him too. But he's shown us that he can have tournament success and it looks like he's got a good crop of players coming in.

OU Adonis
3/21/2006, 10:13 AM
Minor technically was more of a handfull than either of those guys-

And just how do you know this? :eek:

OU Adonis
3/21/2006, 10:17 AM
I posted this on another thread.

Kelvin Sampson

All Time
279-108 72.1%

NCAA Tourney
11-11 50%

Billy Tubbs

All Time
333-132 71.6%

NCAA Tourney
15-9 62.5%


Billy ball was way more fun to watch.

TopDawg
3/21/2006, 10:22 AM
I'm not on the Fire Calvin bandwagon yet. I was just pointing out his history with high profile recruits is flat out ****ty. Can you name one that hasn't transferred out of the program?

Hollis was a Top 50 guy, right?
Bookout was a second team Parade All-American.

Ebi and Taj, but they had to transfer in so you probably won't let me count them.

Yeah, Sampson's history isn't sparkling, but I was able to name one. ;)

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 10:28 AM
Hollis was a Top 50 guy, right?
Bookout was a second team Parade All-American.

Ebi and Taj, but they had to transfer in so you probably won't let me count them.

Yeah, Sampson's history isn't sparkling, but I was able to name one. ;)


I was only counting high school recruits. If JUCOs were really that good they'd be in the NBA.

I really don't remember Hollis being rated that highly, but I could be wrong. Didn't he weigh like 130 pounds in high school?

I'll give you Bookout, he did finish his career as a Sooner. He never really improved much in his four years, but I'm sure all the injuries had something to do with that.

I would like nothing better for Sampson to be the guy who gets this program over the top. Losing in the first round in over 50% of your NCAA tournament appearances is really really bad though.

NickZeppelin
3/21/2006, 02:41 PM
I posted this on another thread.

Kelvin Sampson

All Time
279-108 72.1%

NCAA Tourney
11-11 50%

Billy Tubbs

All Time
333-132 71.6%

NCAA Tourney
15-9 62.5%


Billy ball was way more fun to watch.

Wishbone was more fun to watch then the offenses of the last 6 years. The longer you are away from a coach or era the more fun it was. When Kelvin retires wait 5 years when we wish we still had Kelvin and how his system was the best ever.

oumartin
3/21/2006, 02:41 PM
didn't the hart kid from arkansas come in at the same time as hollis, i remember there being talk on the radio about kelvin recruiting for a final four run when he brought those two in. so hollis was obviously highly thought of. how high i dont' know. the hart kid was also pretty highly sought after if memory serves me right..

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 02:44 PM
From what I remember, the Hart kid was higher ranked, but I had completely forgotten about him so I could be wrong. I have no idea how to find basketball recruiting rankings from that far back.

TopDawg
3/21/2006, 02:52 PM
I got my info from Soonersports.com.

I forgot about Hart too. Here's what his profile said:


A first-team All-State selection as a senior ... Averaged 17.4 points, 8.5 rebounds and 7.3 assists per game last year ... Led squad to class 6A state title and was named state tournament MVP ... Team finished 29-3 and ranked 17th in final USA Today high school poll ... Earned All-State honors as a junior when he averaged 14.0 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.3 assists per contest.

Hollis:


Widely regarded as one of the nation?s 50 best high school seniors ... Earned first-team All-State and New Orleans Metro Player-of-the-Year honors as a senior ... Averaged 25.6 points, 5.3 rebounds and 6.2 assists per outing his final season ... Led St. Augustine to Class 5A state crown and was named state tournament MVP ... Directed 17-and-under AAU team to national title in summer 1998 ... Named MVP of national AAU tournament ... Averaged 17.5 points, 4.5 rebounds and 5.5 assists as a junior

But according to the site, Hart was a freshman when Hollis was a junior. Maybe a redshirt freshman, but either way...it looks like Hollis would've been here at least one year by the time Hart got here.

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 03:02 PM
But according to the site, Hart was a freshman when Hollis was a junior. Maybe a redshirt freshman, but either way...it looks like Hollis would've been here at least one year by the time Hart got here.


I would have sworn that they were in the same class. :confused:

Edit: I think their old rosters are f'ed up. They have Najera listed as a Junior on the '01-'02 team.

oumartin
3/21/2006, 03:04 PM
yeah, me too. hollis could only be a year older at the most.
who else came in with hollis?

NickZeppelin
3/21/2006, 03:12 PM
Hollis' class was Ebi(who went to JUCO), Nolan Johnson, Jameel Heywood, Kelly Newton, and Jarrett Hart.

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 03:16 PM
Johnson, Newton, and Heywood were all JUCOs.

NickZeppelin
3/21/2006, 03:18 PM
Johnson, Newton, and Heywood were all JUCOs.

Yep but they were the same recruiting class.

oumartin
3/21/2006, 03:19 PM
Newton had glimpses of brilliance!
didnt' he have health issues?
Heywood was from C.C.C. JUCO. Never recruited outta high school by OU.

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 03:24 PM
Yep but they were the same recruiting class.


Newton was the year before.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/21/2006, 03:36 PM
Face it boys. We never recovered from the loss of Prince Fowler.

NickZeppelin
3/21/2006, 03:37 PM
No he was not. He was a Junior in 2000 with Johnson and Heywood.

oumartin
3/21/2006, 03:42 PM
obviously Nick is a stat and research freak with no sense of reasoning.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/21/2006, 03:47 PM
obviously Nick is a stat and research freak with no sense of reasoning.


Nick is a power lifter. He is an expert at the Clean and Jerk.;)

Harry Beanbag
3/21/2006, 04:03 PM
No he was not. He was a Junior in 2000 with Johnson and Heywood.


Yes. I believe he was also a Junior in '99 when he tore his ACL in the preseason and redshirted.

NickZeppelin
3/21/2006, 05:18 PM
You might be right. I just remember Newton playing 2 years.

TopDawg
3/21/2006, 05:51 PM
I would have sworn that they were in the same class. :confused:

Edit: I think their old rosters are f'ed up. They have Najera listed as a Junior on the '01-'02 team.

Yeah, that's very possible. I think the 01'-'02 team is the last one they have and isn't it the one that listed some people like 4 times?

Kelly Newton was the nicest OU basketball player I ever knew. Great guy.

Cam
3/21/2006, 08:28 PM
It's been my experience that the anti-Sampson people bring him in first. I brought him in because I thought it was the measure that most anti-Sampson people wanted to use. My bad.
Fair enough. I try not to bring Tubbs in simply cause I don't really like to compare different eras. It's just too tough to do as times/players/styles change.


C'mon Cam, you know me better than to think I was trying to say Sampson was head and shoulders better than Tubbs. I'm fighting the impression I get from some that Tubbs is heads and shoulders better than Sampson.
Fair enough. I'm just not sold on 1 game a season being progress. We've been taking baby steps for quite some time.


Well, backdoor or not, we won a conference championship LAST YEAR. We earned it, it wasn't given to us. Sure, our program's not at the level it was 3 years ago (despite the fact that we didn't win the RS championship that year) but I think it's poised to get there.
I would argue that it was given to us. The amount of things that had to happen for us to get a share was freaking crazy. We had a realistic 10% chance and the numbers fell right.


Sampson had 1 or 2 (or 1.5...basketball recruiting confuses me) bad recruiting classes that didn't pan out the way he expected. They were highly touted players, but they didn't work out. I'm hoping he learned his lesson and that the guys he's bringing in now are better equiped to thrive in his system.
Only time will tell.


I just have a problem stating that it's just been there when a conference championship is part of that time frame. But maybe you're right on your second point. Maybe Sampson has done all he can do. Maybe we'll look back a few years from now and wish we'd've gotten rid of him sooner. But, like I said earlier, when he's given us 4 trophies, 1 Final Four, and 1 Elite Eight in 6 years, I'll give him a down year or two, especially when a year like this one is considered a down year.
I can understand where you're coming from. I just don't agree. :cool: