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View Full Version : Our problems are defense not offense



NickZeppelin
3/14/2006, 07:06 PM
http://kenpom.com/stats.php

Look at those stats above. OU in offensive efficientcy is ranked 20th in the country. You can't just look at the points. The offense has been real efficient. Look at the defensive rankings though. 80th. For a Kelvin team that's flat out bad. We need a lot of fixes on defense even for a young team next year. If we play that badly on defense there's no way we make a deep run the tourney.

PrideTrombone
3/14/2006, 07:20 PM
Look at the first statistic, tempo/pace. We rank #283 in the country. So while we may be "efficient", we still don't score for **** because our offense is so deliberate.

KC//CRIMSON
3/14/2006, 07:24 PM
plagiarize much?

http://mb22.scout.com/fouinsiderfrm2.showMessage?topicID=35476.topic

NickZeppelin
3/14/2006, 08:24 PM
When you can't defend you can't push the ball very well.

usmc-sooner
3/14/2006, 08:25 PM
how can we be a good team I mean we barely won some games, Nick I'm if if's and buts were candy and nuts, we'd a had losing season for crying out loud.

We almost lost games Nick!!!!!!!! Can you hear me almost lost. We should abandon all hope. We almost had a losing record Nick!!!!!!!!! Nick are you hearing me, I said almost!!!!!!!!!!!!

or does that retarded logic only work for you and Bob Stoops.

NickZeppelin
3/14/2006, 08:27 PM
It's not like they paid to post it KC. Posting something you agree with is not plagiarism.

NickZeppelin
3/14/2006, 08:33 PM
how can we be a good team I mean we barely won some games, Nick I'm if if's and buts were candy and nuts, we'd a had losing season for crying out loud.

We almost lost games Nick!!!!!!!! Can you hear me almost lost. We should abandon all hope. We almost had a losing record Nick!!!!!!!!! Nick are you hearing me, I said almost!!!!!!!!!!!!

or does that retarded logic only work for you and Bob Stoops.

First of all the standards in football should be much higher. A 7-4 season in football is a bad season ever year. A 20 win season is never bad in basketball for OU. When you lack defense you aren't gonna have a good system. Look at Billy Tubbs. He lost his defensive coach since then he's struggled. How many NCAA Tourney games has he won since 1991? Zero.

KC//CRIMSON
3/14/2006, 11:00 PM
It's not like they paid to post it KC. Posting something you agree with is not plagiarism.

But pawning it off as your original thought/argument is, Milli Vanilli.

NickZeppelin
3/14/2006, 11:01 PM
But pawning it off as an original thought is, Milli Vanilli.

Which are the same thoughts I've always had if you read my posts.

sanantoniosooner
3/14/2006, 11:02 PM
Plagiarize much Milli Vanilli?

KC//CRIMSON
3/14/2006, 11:06 PM
Which are the same thoughts I've always had if you read my posts.

Nick, if you were any more full of $hit, you'd be a toilet.

usmc-sooner
3/14/2006, 11:08 PM
Milli Vanilli had 15 minutes

Nick sits on the computer 24-7 trying to come up with something more stupid than his last post so people will pay attention to him.

NickZeppelin
3/14/2006, 11:20 PM
I could careless about attention.

sanantoniosooner
3/14/2006, 11:21 PM
I could careless about attention.
Exactly.

When you care a lot....you COULD care less.

MikeInNorman
3/15/2006, 10:34 AM
Plagarist Nick has a point.:eek: The statistics he cites are meaningless and out of context, but the statement :
Our problems are defense not offense is quite accurate.

In the KS system of winning basketball games (which has been very successful, BTW), there is only one way to win, and that is by sheer toughness and defensive tenacity. We do not posess these traits this year, and thus this is the worst defensive team of the KS era.

Offense will never carry a KS team. Defense always carries a KS team. If we were playing a roster full of wrestlers having the hand-eye coordiantion of hippos and a Renzi Stone-like touch around the basket, KS would figure out a way to win as long as the rasslin' hippo Stone-clones were physically and mentally tougher that the opponents, and played every defensive possession as if they were escaping being stuck in a fence with a herd of Aggy hot on their tails, pun intended. KS' style is that, if you win the toughness and defense part of the game, somebody will figure out a way to get the ball in the basket on the other end. I've never seen evidence of a Plan B.

Hopefully, this bad defensive team will score enough to win, and KS will see that you can win by scoring more than the other team, rather than holding the other team to less than you score, if that makes any sense.

okienole3
3/15/2006, 10:51 AM
Nick, if we all chip in and get you a hooker will you leave this board?

OUmillenium
3/15/2006, 11:15 AM
Plagarist Nick has a point.:eek: The statistics he cites are meaningless and out of context, but the statement : is quite accurate.

In the KS system of winning basketball games (which has been very successful, BTW), there is only one way to win, and that is by sheer toughness and defensive tenacity. We do not posess these traits this year, and thus this is the worst defensive team of the KS era.

Offense will never carry a KS team. Defense always carries a KS team. If we were playing a roster full of wrestlers having the hand-eye coordiantion of hippos and a Renzi Stone-like touch around the basket, KS would figure out a way to win as long as the rasslin' hippo Stone-clones were physically and mentally tougher that the opponents, and played every defensive possession as if they were escaping being stuck in a fence with a herd of Aggy hot on their tails, pun intended. KS' style is that, if you win the toughness and defense part of the game, somebody will figure out a way to get the ball in the basket on the other end. I've never seen evidence of a Plan B.

Hopefully, this bad defensive team will score enough to win, and KS will see that you can win by scoring more than the other team, rather than holding the other team to less than you score, if that makes any sense.


Great post!

usmc-sooner
3/15/2006, 11:37 AM
we've given up 80 or more points 4 times this year, we've only scored 80 or more points 8 times. JMO but I think the lack of any offense wears us down and the defense is there our offense just doesn't match it.

NickZeppelin
3/15/2006, 11:48 AM
I think the defense makes it a slower pace game. How many times this year have we gotten a fast break steal the other way for an easy lay up. Not very many times. Last year we were bad on defense too but then we played Godbold more and it turned around.

MojoRisen
3/15/2006, 12:28 PM
When you can't defend you can't push the ball very well.

And I thought you said Billy Tubbs didn't play defense! You are a walking contridiction!

Defense sucks and our offense sucks- at least if we could score- it would not make me vomit as much.

NickZeppelin
3/15/2006, 01:10 PM
He didn't play defense the last 5 years. And we are winning more games then Tubbs was his last 5 years. When Tubbs lost his defensive coach(can't remember his name right now) he's never been the same coach.

MojoRisen
3/15/2006, 01:43 PM
could be that we lost Mookie Blaylock- all time NCAA steals leader :)

crawfish
3/15/2006, 02:04 PM
we've given up 80 or more points 4 times this year, we've only scored 80 or more points 8 times. JMO but I think the lack of any offense wears us down and the defense is there our offense just doesn't match it.

No, the lack of defense means fewer defensive stops and thus, fewer transition baskets. We end up having to play half-court offense which for ANY team means a lower instance of scoring.

This team is better offensively than at least 85% of all Sampson OU teams, but worse than 95% (only one comes to mind, the NIT team two years ago).

That, my friends, is where the problem lies, no matter who the originator of the point.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/15/2006, 02:05 PM
our guys look like they are more worried about someone kanchoing them than they are about the opponent scoring. hmm, kellen squats a lot during timeouts...

GrapevineSooner
3/15/2006, 02:08 PM
When you can't defend you can't push the ball very well.
I think Mike D'antoni and Steve Nash of the Suns would probably disagree with you on that point.

And thanks for almost making me snort Chicken Parm through my nose, kid.

Granted, of course, we don't have the personnel to even play an up-tempo game like that. But lack of defense doesn't necessarily equate to not being able to push the ball. That's more of a personnel matter.

NickZeppelin
3/15/2006, 04:17 PM
could be that we lost Mookie Blaylock- all time NCAA steals leader :)

That hurt but the defenses before weren't all that bad in the couple years after.


I think Mike D'antoni and Steve Nash of the Suns would probably disagree with you on that point.

NBA is a little bit different then college because most teams don't defend anyway. But Pheonix isn't all that bad a defensive team.

CtheB
3/15/2006, 05:00 PM
He didn't play defense the last 5 years. And we are winning more games then Tubbs was his last 5 years. When Tubbs lost his defensive coach(can't remember his name right now) he's never been the same coach.

The name was Jim Kerwin, and Tubbs troubles had more to do with the drying up of the JUCO lines than anything. Same thing happened to UNLV and Tark.

CtheB
3/15/2006, 05:01 PM
could be that we lost Mookie Blaylock- all time NCAA steals leader :)

Not anymore...remember Chrissy Laettner finally set the record. :mad: Of course it took him 4 years against Mook's 2. :D

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/15/2006, 05:11 PM
The name was Jim Kerwin, and Tubbs troubles had more to do with the drying up of the JUCO lines than anything. Same thing happened to UNLV and Tark.

what really hurt him was losing 3 guys to academics before 1990. then putting all of his eggs into the othella harrington basket...

CtheB
3/15/2006, 05:23 PM
Who did we lose, jk?

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/15/2006, 05:24 PM
smokey, damon and most importantly jackie jones

GottaHavePride
3/15/2006, 06:26 PM
Look at the first statistic, tempo/pace. We rank #283 in the country. So while we may be "efficient", we still don't score for **** because our offense is so deliberate.

You know who else plays almost the exact same tempo that we do (according to those stats)? Wichita State.

CtheB
3/15/2006, 06:35 PM
smokey, damon and most importantly jackie jones

jackie could have been so absolutely huge.

NormanPride
3/15/2006, 06:38 PM
Who did we lose, jk?


smokey, damon and most importantly jackie jones


HA. I knew you were really jk! ;)

usmc-sooner
3/16/2006, 12:25 AM
jkm out of curiousity whatever became of those guys? I know at least one went to Europe, Jones I think. But I never heard what became of the other ones.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/16/2006, 12:31 AM
smokey ended up at UCO and led them to an NAIA national title. jackie signed with some team in spain and tried to make it in the CBA but hurt his knee. after the world's longest correspondence course, damon made it back the next year. he was good but he didn't mesh very well with webster.

RacerX
3/16/2006, 01:17 AM
If by UCO you mean OCU, then I agree.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/16/2006, 10:54 AM
there is a difference? frickin OU wanna bes...

Harry Beanbag
3/16/2006, 10:58 AM
I'm no basketball expert, but IMO Jackie Jones was the most gifted player the Sooners have ever had. Million dollar talent and nickel brain, or however that saying goes.

MikeInNorman
3/16/2006, 11:20 AM
Sadly, they knew Jackie Jones would not be back the entire year he played. Jackie had a guy that would literally go with him to class, and would sit next to him for a certain number of study hours every night to insure he was cracking the books. Even so, his grade point average was the same as Senator John Blutarski.

Some guys just aren't college material. ;)

GottaHavePride
3/16/2006, 03:47 PM
You know who else plays almost the exact same tempo that we do (according to those stats)? Wichita State.

Hmmmm.

mOUse
3/16/2006, 03:54 PM
By not being active, OU never collects fouls. That's a big reason UWM was at the line so much. Slashing, cutting and fast breaking! That kind of activity gets you to the line.
Conversely, Passing it around the top for 25 seconds only to get off a well covered 3 or a fade away or hook goes against the agressive style that collects fouls and gets the other team in trouble.

NickZeppelin
3/16/2006, 05:21 PM
The defense today was still bad. I don't think they are agressive in nature on either side of the ball. But if you don't have a defense you aren't gonna beat a good team.

MojoRisen
3/16/2006, 05:26 PM
The defense today was still bad. I don't think they are agressive in nature on either side of the ball. But if you don't have a defense you aren't gonna beat a good team.


That is correct- and defense was very suspect against a good shooting team.

NormanPride
3/16/2006, 05:43 PM
Yeah. We shot 54%. That's not bad offense, other than turnovers (which isn't KS's fault). We couldn't get to the line, and our D wasn't good enough to stop them/smart enough to keep them off the line.