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MiccoMacey
3/13/2006, 10:38 PM
OU makes it to the Sweet Sixteen, or better even, the Elite Eight?

How many of you guys who aren't liking Kelvin right now will say he did a great job?

What will it take this year for him to be out of your doghouse?

The regular season is over. And a lot of people are upset with the outcome (deservedly so).

So what will it take for this season to be called acceptable?

sanantoniosooner
3/13/2006, 10:40 PM
If Kelvin could land another deoderant endorsement I'd be cool.

MiccoMacey
3/13/2006, 10:42 PM
Heh. :D

Skysooner
3/13/2006, 10:52 PM
Final 8 most likely.

Big Red Ron
3/13/2006, 10:59 PM
I think sweet sixteen should be the minimum expectation for this team, with these players and coach. If he makes it there...good job. Anything more will be tempered by how severe our NCAA penalties are.

MojoRisen
3/13/2006, 11:02 PM
My expectations right now are very low- however if they were to pull off an elite 8- I would publically apologize- and take a blow up doll out to dinner order it a main course and drinks- and start a sceene with it in Norman's most upscale restuarant. with out cracking a smile...

This and I will put money on it that it will not happen- I will give you 10-1 odds on a sweet 16 and 20-1 on an elite 8.

If you are so sure with those odds you ought to poney up 20 bucks.

Who is in...

Soonerus
3/13/2006, 11:06 PM
Final 8 most likely.

What you mean no points in the "final eight" minutes of their next game....

oumartin
3/13/2006, 11:10 PM
NC or nothing.

bigdsooner
3/13/2006, 11:42 PM
that would screw my bracket all to hell :mad: ;)


the bare minimum would be the sweet16. this team has to damn much talent

Gandalf_The_Grey
3/14/2006, 12:05 AM
if I had won that 365 Million I would be an Elite Super Duper Sponser...but soemtimes these things aren't in the cards ;)

OKC-SLC
3/14/2006, 02:40 AM
i'm not so sure it's as simple as saying what round we make it to.

rather, i'd be ok with just seeing some imagination, intensity, and smarts with the ball. If we match up with a team poorly, but we do something to demonstrate some willingness/ability to be even a little diverse, especially on offense, it wouldn't hurt as much to lose.

however, if we play our same old ****ty offense, lame effortless defense, and make the same dumb mistakes over and over, we'll lose to UWM.

and that will have me seriously questioning Kelvin and his appropriateness at OU.

okienole3
3/14/2006, 09:02 AM
The good thing for Kelvin is that if he makes any kind of "run" in the tourney it is going to look better, because we will have to upset a team or two. But, the only reason we will have a tough road is because of our crappy play in the regular season. In summary, any thing Kelvin does is going to wipe out the regular season, at least a little. I say Sweet Sixteen.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/14/2006, 09:18 AM
The good thing for Kelvin is that if he makes any kind of "run" in the tourney it is going to look better, because we will have to upset a team or two. But, the only reason we will have a tough road is because of our crappy play in the regular season. In summary, any thing Kelvin does is going to wipe out the regular season, at least a little. I say Sweet Sixteen.

Based on my expectations before the year I'd say Sweet 16. If we get there now though I may do cartwheels (tough to do at my height).

soonervegas
3/14/2006, 12:40 PM
I agree with RHCF. Before the year I would have said Sweet 16 minimum, now I would be pumped to get to the Sweet 16.

Kelvin is not in my dog house, but I think a Sweet 16 appearance would equal Tubbs output in the Big Dance.

I am more po'd with the level of play from the players. If Kelvin has produced 11 squads that hussled and the 12 doesn't. It is probably the players will to win (i.e. play defense) and not Kelvin's coaching ability.

Big Red Ron
3/14/2006, 12:45 PM
When Kelvin makes a championship game and wins a few conference championships, then, maybe you can compare him to Tubbs.

soonervegas
3/14/2006, 02:17 PM
BRR.....I was simply talking about NCAA tourney success.

Tubbs
Final Four - 1988
Elite Eight - 1985
Sweet 16 - 1987 and 1989

Sampson
Final Four - 2002
Elite Eight - 2003
Sweet 16 - 1999

If Sampson gets to the Sweet 16 this year he equals what Tubbs did. As far as conference tourneys go it is deadlocked at 3 each.

Regular season is where Tubbs kills Sampson at 4-1. I was simply making the NCAA tourney agrument.....although if you bring in regular season titles in to the mix it is a romp. Ironically, by looking at this it makes me think maybe Tubbs was an underachiever in the NCAA tourney.

Harry Beanbag
3/14/2006, 03:04 PM
Of course Tubbs only was 1 and done twice. Sampson has done it 5 times in his 10 appearances.

NCAA Tournament Records
Tubbs-----15-9
Sampson--11-10

MojoRisen
3/15/2006, 10:34 AM
OOOOOH 15-9 vs 11-10

stoopified
3/15/2006, 04:23 PM
While Billy did win 4 conference titles compared to Kelvin winning just one you have to take into account that it was the old KU and the 7 Dwarfs as opposed to the Big 12.He did not have to deal with UT,TT,and a resurgent OSU program in conference.

The biggest difference between Tubbs and Sampson? Talent, Billy had 6 players go to the NBA(Tisdale,King,Grant,Blaylock,Price,Bowie) as opposed to Sampson having 1(Najera).

As for the original point of this thread,What it will take to meet minimum acceptability?,my answer is SWEET 16.While this team has talent it is limited by two key injuries,first the broken bone in the wrist of Bookout,two the sprained ankle which has limited practice time and developement of AJ.

In retrospect I think the top 5 preseason prediction was too high.The loss off Lavender and Mckenzie has been felt keenly with the injury to AJ.It has left us with only Everett to run the point and he has been best at creating (both this year and last) from the wing.Having said all that I have been disappointed in this season like many of you and like many of you I will continue to support KS and the Sooners win or lose. BOOMER SOONER BABY.

CobraKai
3/15/2006, 04:41 PM
Of course Tubbs only was 1 and done twice. Sampson has done it 5 times in his 10 appearances.

But how many years was Tubbs none and done, i.e. missed the tourney altogether. Sampson has 1.

CtheB
3/15/2006, 04:56 PM
But how many years was Tubbs none and done, i.e. missed the tourney altogether. Sampson has 1.

Tubbs and Sampson have more in common than you think. Both came on the scene and realized a significant measure of success. Both made a Final Four, and then 3-4 years later things started to unravel. Either their system no longer worked, or they got the wrong athletes to run their system. That being said, I don't think we are in any different situation than we were in the early 90s under Tubbs, when we were taken out of the tourney by SMS in the first round.

The most common element is that, for both coaches, things just stopped working. Neither would change because I am not sure that either could change. One tries to outscore you, and the other tries to stop you.

That being said, Tubbs left and we found Kelvin, who has done a great job. But it just might be time to go to someone new to breathe life back into the program, rebuild its spirit, and reunite the fans. Who could we get? Don't know, but there are more teams playing D1 BB than there are playing FB, and I guarantee you there are a lot of good coaches that would love to coach at a school with a budget like ours.

sanantoniosooner
3/15/2006, 07:59 PM
Just out of curiosity....how many of Kelvin's "one and dones" were against lower seeds?

I remember Manhattan off the top of my head.

CobraKai
3/15/2006, 08:06 PM
Just out of curiosity....how many of Kelvin's "one and dones" were against lower seeds?

I remember Manhattan off the top of my head.

Good question. Actually I read an article on "how to fill out your brackets" a while back. One of the things they had was a quotient of teams that most frequently lost to higher seeds, thus labelling them most likeyl to get upset.

#1 on the list? Oklahoma, stretching back across Tubbs and Sampson's era, so I guess they had that in common too...they tended to always lose to teams seeded worse than they were.

william_brasky
3/15/2006, 08:07 PM
if Sampson were to leave, atop my list would be Mark Turgeon.

sanantoniosooner
3/15/2006, 08:10 PM
Syracuse was lower, but they won it all........including the Big 12

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/15/2006, 08:12 PM
Tubbs and Sampson have more in common than you think. Both came on the scene and realized a significant measure of success. Both made a Final Four, and then 3-4 years later things started to unravel. Either their system no longer worked, or they got the wrong athletes to run their system. That being said, I don't think we are in any different situation than we were in the early 90s under Tubbs, when we were taken out of the tourney by SMS in the first round.

The most common element is that, for both coaches, things just stopped working. Neither would change because I am not sure that either could change. One tries to outscore you, and the other tries to stop you.

That being said, Tubbs left and we found Kelvin, who has done a great job. But it just might be time to go to someone new to breathe life back into the program, rebuild its spirit, and reunite the fans. Who could we get? Don't know, but there are more teams playing D1 BB than there are playing FB, and I guarantee you there are a lot of good coaches that would love to coach at a school with a budget like ours.Pretty much ditto. Well said. Seems Kelvin's weakness is recruiting. But, now he's supposed to have a good class, unless they bail on him due to NCAA violations. By the way, what's the latest on the violations and sanctions.:confused:

PrideTrombone
3/15/2006, 09:08 PM
Just out of curiosity....how many of Kelvin's "one and dones" were against lower seeds?

I remember Manhattan off the top of my head.

Indiana State, Purdue.

soonerguild
3/15/2006, 10:29 PM
I really don't think that this whole season should be put on kelvin's shoulders. Is KS the best coach in the world, no, but he is a good coach, and if you ask me, I don't think we could get a coach as good as KS to stay at OU for as long as he has with our football following being >>>>>than our basketball ball following.

As far as this season being disappointing, it has been very, but I think we did deserve the top 5 preseason ranking. I think the majority of the reason we struggled was taj and terrell. Neither has lived up to their billing this year,and if they had we would be top 5. Terrell was really expected to be one of the top 10 point guards in the nation and taj was supposed to be an all american candidate. The senior leadership i felt at times was pretty lacking as well. Mix that with bookout and the injury bug and just werent going to be as good as expected.

but with the talent we have, we could come out and play like a team possessed and go deep or we might lose the first one, it will be interesting to say the least.

william_brasky
3/15/2006, 11:47 PM
i'm hoping that the crappy play these last two games is a sign that we'll do some damage in the tourney. in years past, sooners have played well late-season and conference tourney, only to disappoint.

perhaps playing so poorly has given KS and squad some extra motivation to not go out and lay a big pile of cager dung in the ncaa.

wishful thinking? yes. but possible.

why do i love and hate ou basketball so much? (rhetorical question)

GottaHavePride
3/16/2006, 12:19 AM
Indiana State, Purdue.

Purdue was the second round that year. We played in Tucson.

Harry Beanbag
3/16/2006, 07:15 AM
Good question. Actually I read an article on "how to fill out your brackets" a while back. One of the things they had was a quotient of teams that most frequently lost to higher seeds, thus labelling them most likeyl to get upset.

#1 on the list? Oklahoma, stretching back across Tubbs and Sampson's era, so I guess they had that in common too...they tended to always lose to teams seeded worse than they were.


Except for the late '90s, OU typically has had a very low seed, 1-4, so it stands to reason that when they lose it will be to a higher seeded team. Out of the Sooners' last 17 tournament losses, 12 have been to lower seeds.

http://www.soonerstats.com/bb/research/tourneys.cfm

PrideTrombone
3/16/2006, 02:16 PM
Purdue was the second round that year. We played in Tucson.

They were seeded lower, though, weren't they?

tru2ou
3/16/2006, 02:44 PM
Never mind, this team didnt have a run all year.

- Tru

GrapevineSooner
3/16/2006, 02:46 PM
Manhattan, Indiana State, Purdue, Utah, and now UW-Milwaukee.

Though in fairness, I'm only counting Manhattan and Indiana State as the only legitimate upsets. Nowadays, it's only an upset if you're a 5, 4, 3, 2, or 1 seed.

Speaking of which, I think we're within a year or two of a 1 seed losing in the first round.

Gandalf_The_Grey
3/16/2006, 03:19 PM
I don't think a 1 seed is going to lose to anyone unless it is highly flukey. I won't say never because, they would be crazy, but it isn't likely. Why? Well mostly because there is usually 1 or 2 teams that pull huge upsets and go to the tournament with losing records or bad records from bad conferences. So basically you got 2 of the #1 seeds basically getting a bye. With the new NBA rule, you are going to have more teams with NBA caliber talent. Duke, North Carolina, Connecticut, and those boys are only going to be better and it won't help the low majors(the teams that ARE always the 16 seed.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/16/2006, 07:25 PM
Not to worry. Buh-bye, men's basketball '06

Cam
3/16/2006, 10:05 PM
Haven't been on the board for a few days, but these have been my answers for a while:


OU makes it to the Sweet Sixteen, or better even, the Elite Eight?
I'd have been stunned. Happily so, but still stunned.


How many of you guys who aren't liking Kelvin right now will say he did a great job?
I would have had a hard time saying that. We were 4 points away from ending the season 2-8 in our last 10 games before today. That's 4 points seperating us from teams who couldn't even make it out of the 1st round of the NIT.


What will it take this year for him to be out of your doghouse?
Haven't we seen everything we're going to need to see in 12 years?


The regular season is over. And a lot of people are upset with the outcome (deservedly so).

So what will it take for this season to be called acceptable?
Even a win today wouldn't have come close to turning around the season IMO.