Who shot JFK?

[oumartin]

c'mon all you smart people. Surely some of you buy into the conspiracy.

[chriscappel]

conspiracy??? YES!! There was more than one shooter....I dont know who but there was another...

[soonerbrat]

ok. i think it's time for confession. it was me. in my past life, of course.

[SoonerBorn68]

I used to be one of those it was the mafia, grass knoll, cuban freedom fighter conspiracy guys, but I watched a show on TDC that changed my mind.

First, they recreated the shooting. A '63 Lincoln convertible was used. They put a watermelon in place of Kennedy's head and set up a sharpshooter at the exact range and vantage point Oswald had. The sniper got off 6 rounds in 9 seconds and put 3 into the watermelon.

Second they proved that it was possible for Oswald to have made the trip from the 21st floor of the depository to the break area where he was seen only a few minutes after the shooting.

Third, they proved that Oswald could have made the walk from the depository to the where the police officer was killed by walking the distance themselves.

I did believe, but the more time passes and the more facts come out about the case, I believe that Oswald acted alone, might have been apart of a conpiracy but he carried out the plan himself. He even wrote a letter his wife found later that stated what to do when he was "gone".

[oumartin]

I think you guys are part of the conspiracy now.
how did he get an entry wound on the front side of his neck?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I blame the Libz ;)

[SoonerBorn68]

I think you guys are part of the conspiracy now.
how did he get an entry wound on the front side of his neck?

They discussed that part on that show too. It seemed like they did a ballistics test with the same kind of rifle with a cadaver target and proved it was actually an exit wound. But, I could be wrong.

[Jerk]

I used to be one of those it was the mafia, grass knoll, cuban freedom fighter conspiracy guys, but I watched a show on TDC that changed my mind.

First, they recreated the shooting. A '63 Lincoln convertible was used. They put a watermelon in place of Kennedy's head and set up a sharpshooter at the exact range and vantage point Oswald had. The sniper got off 6 rounds in 9 seconds and put 3 into the watermelon.

Second they proved that it was possible for Oswald to have made the trip from the 21st floor of the depository to the break area where he was seen only a few minutes after the shooting.

Third, they proved that Oswald could have made the walk from the depository to the where the police officer was killed by walking the distance themselves.

I did believe, but the more time passes and the more facts come out about the case, I believe that Oswald acted alone, might have been apart of a conpiracy but he carried out the plan himself. He even wrote a letter his wife found later that stated what to do when he was "gone".

Did they use the same Italian Carcano rifle? Most sharpshooters can not duplicate the shot with that thing, but Oswald was former USMC so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

[BajaOklahoma]

68, there have been several shows on TDC on this subject. Very interesting subject. I liked the one with the "gel bodies" and the sniper.

[SoonerBorn68]

Yeah Jerk they did use the Carcano bolt action and the shooter they used was a former sniper.

Baja every night when I'm on the job I set my evenings to A&E, THC, TDC, Hist Int., The Military Channel, etc. I'm a documentary junkie. :D

[Okla-homey]

I'm no physicist or ballistics expert, but I've just never understood why/how a high angle head shot from behind resulted in half Kennedy's skull on the middle of the trunk lid of car. Seems like it should have been projected onto the dashboard of the Lincoln, or all over the backs of the Connolly's or the driver.

Other than that, I'm okay with it.

[slickdawg]

If there's nothing to hide, why are the records sealed tight over 40
years later?

[BajaOklahoma]

I'm no physicist or ballistics expert, but I've just never understood why/how a high angle head shot from behind resulted in half Kennedy's skull on the middle of the trunk lid of car. Seems like it should have been projected onto the dashboard of the Lincoln, or all over the backs of the Connolly's or the driver.

Other than that, I'm okay with it.


Agreed. The CSI types, over the years, have never questioned this part of the shooting.... that I have heard anyway.

[Cam]

Yeah Jerk they did use the Carcano bolt action and the shooter they used was a former sniper.
I remember seeing that and thinking this was the biggest flaw in their argument that LHO did it alone. Even though he was a former Marine, he wasn't quite sniper material from I've read.

That added to Homey's point makes me wonder.

[Jerk]

I remember seeing that and thinking this was the biggest flaw in their argument that LHO did it alone. Even though he was a former Marine, he wasn't quite sniper material from I've read.

That added to Homey's point makes me wonder.

I shot some pumpkins last fall with a .308 and it put a small hole in the front but totally vaporized the back half and cleaned out all the filling. I was using regular FMJ's, which probably didn't expand much. But anyway, I guess I'm trying to say that weird things happen when lead at 3,000 feet per second comes into contact with soft tissue. It does seem as if JFK's brains should have went to the front of the car and the front of his head/forehead/face should have been blown apart and NOT the back of his skull. I ain't no expert tho. If there was any conspiracy, I bet donuts to dummies that Hoover was behind it.

The only thing I know about the Corcano is that it is NOT highly regarded as an accurate weapon.

[yermom]

68, there have been several shows on TDC on this subject. Very interesting subject. I liked the one with the "gel bodies" and the sniper.

i saw this as well, they were able to duplicate even the shapes of the wounds on JFK and Governor Connally using the same ammo and a very similar gun

[Cam]

I shot some pumpkins last fall with a .308 and it put a small hole in the front but totally vaporized the back half and cleaned out all the filling. I was using regular FMJ's, which probably didn't expand much. But anyway, I guess I'm trying to say that weird things happen when lead at 3,000 feet per second comes into contact with soft tissue. It does seem as if JFK's brains should have went to the front of the car and the front of his head/forehead/face should have been blown apart and NOT the back of his skull. I ain't no expert tho. If there was any conspiracy, I bet donuts to dummies that Hoover was behind it.
I don't know a lot about ammo, but a small hole in the front and a large one in the back seems pretty logical to me. I would think something wasn't quite right if it was the other way around.

[Al Gore]

It was Shooter Cheney.......

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

I don't believe Oswald acted alone or even did it for that matter. It just makes no sense.

[Jerk]

I don't know a lot about ammo, but a small hole in the front and a large one in the back seems pretty logical to me. I would think something wasn't quite right if it was the other way around.

The entry wound will usually be a small hole, and the exit wound will usually be a larger hole. Of course, strange things can and do happen.

[usmc-sooner]

I saw a show not to long ago, that pretty much tackled every conspiracy theories.
They had this guy who kept saying that some of the best shot's in the world couldn't duplicate the shot. They then asked him to name 5 of the top shots in the world. The dude just sat there with a dumb look on his face. They then brought in 5 guys who nailed the shot and said they could have done much better than Oswald.
I don't think Oswald was that great of a shot maybe a marksman, but there's always that lucky shot factor.

Could there have been more than one shooter? yeah maybe. I don't really believe in any of the conspiracy stuff however. When I hear about people who think the government covering up stuff like this, or UFO's I just think man these people have never worked with some of the government employees I have.

There is no way they could keep things of that magnitude under wraps.

[proud gonzo]

I know a guy who used to have a shirt that said "ELVIS SHOT JFK".

He accidentally wore it to Arlington Cemetary once. Security guards made him put on his jacket.

[Ike]

I think there is more to the story than we know, but I don't know if I buy into all the conspiracy theories out there. maybe it was, maybe it wasnt. The conspiracy theorists certainly have an equal if not greater chance of being wrong than police agencies, the FBI, and the Warren Comission.

the magic bullet and homeys point certainly drive this home, but then again, I've never paid it too much attention

[Sooner Schemer]

It was the cigarette-smoking man.

Doesn't anybody watch the X-Files?

[picasso]

you folks gotta define "acted alone." I think someone else was in on it but I think Ozzie was the lone shooter.
I get the sick willies everytime I see that film.

[gh55]

Here is something that was in yahoo news a couple of months ago, not that
it makes any of it ture.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060104/us_nm/usa_kennedy_film_dc;_ylt=AroO5kQ._aZqiV2G8waqrrys0 NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ


By Mark Trevelyan Wed Jan 4, 11:12 AM ET

BERLIN (Reuters) - Cuba lay behind the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy by Lee Harvey Oswald and its agents provided the gunman with money and support, an award-winning German director says in a new documentary film.

Wilfried Huismann spent three years researching "Rendezvous with Death," based on interviews with former Cuban secret agents, U.S. officials and a Russian intelligence source, and on research in Mexican security archives.

The film, shown to journalists in Berlin on Wednesday, says Oswald traveled to Mexico City by bus in September 1963, seven weeks before the Kennedy shooting, and met agents at the Cuban embassy there who paid him $6,500.

Oscar Marino, a former Cuban agent and a key source for the documentary, told Huismann that Oswald himself had volunteered for the assassination mission and Havana had exploited him.

"Oswald was a dissident. He hated his country...Oswald offered to kill Kennedy," Marino said in the film.

"He was so full of hate, he had the idea. We used him...He was a tool."

He said he knew with certainty that the assassination was an operation of the Cuban secret service G-2, but would not say if it was ordered by President Fidel Castro. Oswald was shot dead by Jack Ruby two days after killing Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963.

The film argues Cuba wanted to eliminate Kennedy as the chief enemy of its Communist revolution, and portrays him and Castro as dueling opponents each trying to assassinate the other first.

Former CIA official Sam Halpern told Huismann: "He (Castro) beat us. He bested us. He came out on top, and we lost."

FBI PROBE ABORTED

Laurence Keenan, an officer of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) who was sent to Mexico City immediately after Kennedy's death to investigate a possible Cuban connection, said he was recalled after just three days and the probe was aborted.

"This was perhaps the worst investigation the FBI was ever involved in," Keenan said. "I realized that I was used. I felt ashamed. We missed a moment in history."

Keenan, 81, said he was convinced Kennedy's successor, Lyndon Johnson, blocked further investigation because proof of a Cuban link would put him under irresistible pressure to invade the island, a year after the Cuban missile crisis had brought the United States and Soviet Union to the brink of nuclear war.

"Most likely there would have been an invasion of Cuba which could have had unknown consequences for the whole world," he told journalists at the screening, saying that was why Johnson preferred to accept Oswald was "a crazed lone Marxist assassin."

Interviewed for the film, Alexander Haig, then a U.S. military adviser and later secretary of state, quoted Johnson as saying "we simply must not allow the American people to believe that Fidel Castro could have killed our president."

"And the reason was that there would be a right-wing uprising in America, which would keep the Democratic party out of power for two generations," Haig said.

He added that Robert F. Kennedy, brother of the assassinated president and attorney general in his administration, had personally ordered eight attempts on the life of Castro, who is still in power to this day.

Cuban and Russian sources interviewed in the film say the KGB alerted the Cubans to Oswald in mid-1962 after he left the Soviet Union, where he had lived for three years, and returned to the United States with his Soviet wife and their daughter.

Cuban intelligence first made contact with Oswald in November 1962, according to the film.

Huismann also unearthed a U.S. intelligence report shown to Johnson which said Cuban secret service chief Fabian Escalante flew via Mexico City to Dallas on the day of Kennedy's assassination, and back again the same day.

Tracked down by the film maker, Escalante denied he had been in Dallas and evaded questions about Cuba's alleged role. "What is truth, what are lies?" he said, smiling.

[Fugue]

The History channel did a show recently where they broke every second of the film into frame by frame action. Then they computerized it. Very cool but it showed that one bullet passed through JFK into the dude in front. The frame by frame showed that they each reacted instantaneously from being hit by the same bullet. They then traced the line of the wounds on each man backwards and it went right to the corner room on the upper floor. Very cool show and I think P. Jennings is the narrator.

[Harry Beanbag]

I read a book once that layed out the theory that the fatal head shot actually came from a Secret Service agent's AR-15. The agent was standing up in the back seat of the car following JFK's, lost his balance when the cars started accelerating after the initial shots from Oswald, and accidentally squeezed off the fatal round.

Who knows if it's true or not, but it was an interesting theory that I hadn't heard before and it seemed to be well supported. I believe the book was called Mortal Error or something like that.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

Anyone ever heard the man hole theory ?

I was in Dealy plaza about 3 years ago and was asked to leave by a tour guide because I took the man hole cover off and got down in there to see if I could look through the storm drain at passing cars; and to my surprise yes, I absolutly could. PLUS in behind me was a tunnel that led back to the railroad tracks where someone could easily make a quick getaway.

Anyway, I believe in a conspiracy involving the mafia, and the fed's

[Okla-homey]

Anyone ever heard the man hole theory ?

I was in Dealy plaza about 3 years ago and was asked to leave by a tour guide because I took the man hole cover off and got down in there to see if I could look through the storm drain at passing cars; and to my surprise yes, I absolutly could. PLUS in behind me was a tunnel that led back to the railroad tracks where someone could easily make a quick getaway.


I'm surprised they haven't killed you yet.:eek:

[OU Adonis]

I read a book once that layed out the theory that the fatal head shot actually came from a Secret Service agent's AR-15. The agent was standing up in the back seat of the car following JFK's, lost his balance when the cars started accelerating after the initial shots from Oswald, and accidentally squeezed off the fatal round.

Who knows if it's true or not, but it was an interesting theory that I hadn't heard before and it seemed to be well supported. I believe the book was called Mortal Error or something like that.

I didn't think AR-15's were around back then. I thought that came out in the late 60s.

[Harry Beanbag]

I didn't think AR-15's were around back then. I thought that came out in the late 60s.

The original designer, Armalite, sold the rights to Colt in 1959.

The author goes into a very interesting history of the AR-15, which was the precursor to the M-16, and how the Army screwed it up and ended up getting GIs killed in Vietnam.

[KaiserSooner]

I used to be one of those it was the mafia, grass knoll, cuban freedom fighter conspiracy guys, but I watched a show on TDC that changed my mind.

First, they recreated the shooting. A '63 Lincoln convertible was used. They put a watermelon in place of Kennedy's head and set up a sharpshooter at the exact range and vantage point Oswald had. The sniper got off 6 rounds in 9 seconds and put 3 into the watermelon.

Second they proved that it was possible for Oswald to have made the trip from the 21st floor of the depository to the break area where he was seen only a few minutes after the shooting.

Third, they proved that Oswald could have made the walk from the depository to the where the police officer was killed by walking the distance themselves.

I did believe, but the more time passes and the more facts come out about the case, I believe that Oswald acted alone, might have been apart of a conpiracy but he carried out the plan himself. He even wrote a letter his wife found later that stated what to do when he was "gone".

Same here. Used to believe in all those conspiracies, but no more.

[KaiserSooner]

Here is something that was in yahoo news a couple of months ago, not that
it makes any of it ture.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060104/us_nm/usa_kennedy_film_dc;_ylt=AroO5kQ._aZqiV2G8waqrrys0 NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ


Wow. That's fascinating and very plausible.

[KaiserSooner]

I hear ya. It must be a conspiracy that's bringing together fascination and plausibility.

Those damned Mossad agents. :mad:

[OU Adonis]

The original designer, Armalite, sold the rights to Colt in 1959.

The author goes into a very interesting history of the AR-15, which was the precursor to the M-16, and how the Army screwed it up and ended up getting GIs killed in Vietnam.

My bad. I was thinking the AR-15 came after the M-16. I was under the idea that the 16 was released with problems, and the AR-15 came in later as a civilian/police weapon.

[SCOUT]

Anyone ever heard the man hole theory ?

I was in Dealy plaza about 3 years ago and was asked to leave by a tour guide because I took the man hole cover off and got down in there to see if I could look through the storm drain at passing cars; and to my surprise yes, I absolutly could. PLUS in behind me was a tunnel that led back to the railroad tracks where someone could easily make a quick getaway.

Anyway, I believe in a conspiracy involving the mafia, and the fed's

One The Discovery Channel shows had a guy get down in that very drain and the curve of the street is too high to actually see where the car was.

[Sooner04]

Second they proved that it was possible for Oswald to have made the trip from the 21st floor of the depository to the break area where he was seen only a few minutes after the shooting.
You've been had! There are only six floors in the Depository Building.

[picasso]

You've been had! There are only six floors in the Depository Building.
but there is 21 floors next door at the Sopository Building.

[Harry Beanbag]

You've been had! There are only six floors in the Depository Building.


Actually there are seven, but Oswald's nest was on the sixth floor.