Josh Heupel vs. Vince Young

[kelloggOUballa]

my little brother (a Texas fan) was absolutely beside himself, in shock that I said I'd take Josh Heupel over Vince in a heartbeat. He was like "you know you'd take Vince you just won't admit it." Given, he was 9 when we won the 2000 NC and remembers Vince a little better. I told him Josh was every bit as good a leader, if not even better, than Vince. He made a point that Vince could do it by himself, but to me that doesn't make him a better leader. I take Josh, easy. So, crimson glasses away, who's the man?

[bigdsooner]

josh, it aint even close, dude had one helluva a brain

[usmc-sooner]

Vince wore the gay version of the hot white pants

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

Apples to Oranges

Would you take pin point accuracy with other intangibles? Or a wide reciever that just so happens to get the ball every play?

[MojoRisen]

HUM, 2000 OU vs 2005 Texas....

Good game- I would take Josh though- he could rink and dink you to death- and I think we would have head hunted ole vince a little bit kind a like we did in 2004....

[AZfanIII]

2000 OU hands 2005 Texas their own asses and makes them whistle sexual healing and like it. Heupel, is a hands down better QB. Vince is an ignorant **** destined to be the next big bust unless he moves positions.

[JohnnyMack]

Depends, are they taking a wonderlic or playing foosball?

[Soonerman08]

Heupel definitely, I mean c'mon he and Q. perfected the shuffle pass.

[snp]

You need help arguing with a 15 year old, kellogg? :)

[LosAngelesSooner]

This isn't even close. Better TEAM LEADER vs. better INDIVIDUAL PLAYER. Who would you rather have leading your team?

Besides, the 2000 defense would have planted Vince 6 feet under.

[footballfanatic]

JH was good, and deserves his accolades, but for arguments sake, here is the rebuttal: VY is being touted as one of the greatest college qb's of all time. I don't see that ink for Huepel. JY made the the Heisman winner look silly in the head to head meeting. VY also outplayed the FORMER Heisman in the same head to head meeting. VY accounted for 3000 yds passing and 1000 yds rushing, a feat never done before. And say what you want about the Wonderlick (bizzare, to say the least, but it has nothing to do with college football) , but VY was a GREAT team leader, not just an athletic freak. But still, I view this thread as progress--it used to be how much better JW was than VY. At least THAT argument has ceased, thank God.

[Cam]

Depends on which type of system you want to run.

If you want a pro style attack, I'd take JH or JW any day over VY.

If you want to run the shotgun spread or what ever it's called, I'd take VY.

Put either one of them in the opposite offensive set and we'd never have this discussion. That is taking into account JW's knee problems.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

Depends on which type of system you want to run.

If you want a pro style attack, I'd take JH or JW any day over VY.

If you want to run the shotgun spread or what ever it's called, I'd take VY.

Put either one of them in the opposite offensive set and we'd never have this discussion. That is taking into account JW's knee problems.

That was kind of my point, but I threw in a sarcastic comment as icing on the cake. :D

[XingTheRubicon]

JH was good, and deserves his accolades, but for arguments sake, here is the rebuttal: VY is being touted as one of the greatest college qb's of all time. I don't see that ink for Huepel. JY made the the Heisman winner look silly in the head to head meeting. VY also outplayed the FORMER Heisman in the same head to head meeting. VY accounted for 3000 yds passing and 1000 yds rushing, a feat never done before. And say what you want about the Wonderlick (bizzare, to say the least, but it has nothing to do with college football) , but VY was a GREAT team leader, not just an athletic freak. But still, I view this thread as progress--it used to be how much better JW was than VY. At least THAT argument has ceased, thank God.


Well, there is that whole "kicked VY's *** every time he played him" part that impedes the progress.

[BASSooner]

JH, theirs no question. VY won that by himself. JH didn't do that, the team did. The team won the national championship in 2000, not just josh

[NickZeppelin]

VY is not a QB, Josh is.

[Dances with Possums]

Where was Josh drafted?

[NickZeppelin]

6th round I think

[Dio]

JH was good, and deserves his accolades, but for arguments sake, here is the rebuttal: VY is being touted as one of the greatest college qb's of all time. I don't see that ink for Huepel. JY made the the Heisman winner look silly in the head to head meeting. VY also outplayed the FORMER Heisman in the same head to head meeting. VY accounted for 3000 yds passing and 1000 yds rushing, a feat never done before. And say what you want about the Wonderlick (bizzare, to say the least, but it has nothing to do with college football) , but VY was a GREAT team leader, not just an athletic freak. But still, I view this thread as progress--it used to be how much better JW was than VY. At least THAT argument has ceased, thank God.

Ask Todd Marinovich or Ryan Leaf how far ink gets you in the NFL.

[Octavian]

VY had the best big-game performance (RB) of the BCS era for a QB

JH had the best month (October) of the BCS era for a QB

I've always wished Josh could've stayed healthy through the whole 2000 season just to see what he would've done.

Even w/ the bum elbow the guy won in College Station, Stillwater....beat KState again in their backyard and then beat the defending national champions in their backyard.

I'm not sure that VY could've been resourceful enough to lead Texas to the NC had he suffered a severe ankle sprain or some other limiting injury. As is, my decision would come down to the type of offense being run.

[Salt City Sooner]

"As is, my decision would come down to the type of offense being run."
& that's the key point of the whole thing. Spread? It's Josh & it's not close. Shotgun option? It's Young & it's not close.

[TheGodfather889]

I think Josh Heupel was a better quarterback than Young but I might take Vince Young just because no one could stop him last year and teams contained Josh Heupel some in 2000.

[Egeo]

it depends on what kind of team i had...
both are great

[footballfanatic]

Ask Todd Marinovich or Ryan Leaf how far ink gets you in the NFL.

This isn't a pro discussion. Also, those guys don't deserve to be in the same discussion with VY and JH--neither did too much in college, though Leaf did make it to the Rose Bowl, (a loss). Marinovich wasn't even a star, unless you count "amount of drugs consumed."

[footballfanatic]

Neither VY or JH were blessed with absolutely great receivers--they both made the players around them better.

[Big Red Ron]

Well, there is that whole "kicked VY's *** every time he played him" part that impedes the progress.And the Heisman thingy.

[OUmillenium]

Depends on the system is a valid point. I would still take Josh. Vince is a turd...sorry, Turd with a capital T.

[proudsoonergal]

Where was Josh drafted?

Yeah, 'cause we all know that draft position is indicative of how good a college quarterback was/is.

[Big Red Ron]

Where was Josh drafted?where was tom brady drafted?

Some guys get hurt bro.

[mdklatt]

VY is being touted as one of the greatest college qb's of all time.

Maybe by Texas fans. :rolleyes:

Based on their entire careers, Matt Freakin' Leinart was a better college QB than Vince Young. Ken Dorsey at Miami was a better QB than VY.

[goingoneight]

well, I've seen Josh Heupel man-handle a good defense... The few times I've seen VY face off against a good D, he's been utterly embarassed by them. VY has several options for his pro career, he is big, strong, and as everyone else said-- an athletic freak. Don't let a decent season fool you though, Texas had the best offensive line I've ever seen in college ball this past season... and even in 2004, most of those guys were there blocking for him.

JH showed talent and 'smarts' (if you will) in every aspect of the QB position. I saw a few times this past year where VY fumbled a snap, overshot a receiver, and got picked off blindly. Granted that happened a few times to every QB, I always think the brains of the operation is destined for better things.

I'm confused. JH at QB, and VY at RB, now we're talking...

If VY does good in the NFL, big money is in store for him. If he flops two or three seasons, not necessarily so. I do believe however, that if JH continues to progress as a coach as well as he has in recent years, the future will associate Josh Heupel more with football than a player who had a decent career.

I don't like VY's attitude at times...

[soonerthanu]

Give me PT :)

[sooneron]

VY had one amazing season, Josh had two. Josh did it against better conference talent. Vy did it against better out of conference talent. Defenses in the big 12 this year were abyssmal.
The only people giving vy INK are the bandwagon idiots that are going to say the same thing either next season or the following about somebody else.

[Mac94]

The VY hype will die down in time. It was only last year the Leinart was being called the greatest QB of all time, and if USC had held on in the Rose Bowl, he would be getting the praise right now for his amazing second half performance.

VY was a great college QB and he had some wonderful performances and a great 15 or so game run starting with the 2004 Kansas game and ending in the Rose Bowl comeback.

But, he still was human. He was still the QB of record in the 12-0 shutout of Texas by Oklahoma. He still had times when he turned the ball over, highlighted by the gaff in the 2004 A&M-Texas game when he got careless near the goal line and fumbled, allowing A&M a 99 yard TD. And, in last years A&M game, VY was very human, sulking (as several Austin radio guys commented) on the sidelines as thing went poorly for him and as he played his way out of the Heisman.

There have been many great QBs over the decades to make their mark on college football, from VY to Leinert to Josh to multiple MNC winners like Tommy Fraizer at Nebraska to the legends like Montana at Notre Dame.

The media will now move on and the hype of the latest and greatest will move on as thye find a new kid (Quinn?) next year to gush over. VY will go down as a great college QB, but I doubt he will retain this "best ever" label for very long.

[SoonerShark]

JH was good, and deserves his accolades, but for arguments sake, here is the rebuttal: VY is being touted as one of the greatest college qb's of all time. I don't see that ink for Huepel. JY made the the Heisman winner look silly in the head to head meeting. VY also outplayed the FORMER Heisman in the same head to head meeting. VY accounted for 3000 yds passing and 1000 yds rushing, a feat never done before. And say what you want about the Wonderlick (bizzare, to say the least, but it has nothing to do with college football) , but VY was a GREAT team leader, not just an athletic freak. But still, I view this thread as progress--it used to be how much better JW was than VY. At least THAT argument has ceased, thank God.

Let's see. VY is the best ever, he was on UT's campus for four years, while UT went 1-3 against the Sooners. He was shutout in the 2003 game against the Sooners. UT was good before he came on campus in 2002. UT is one for the millennium against the Sooners.

JH came onto campus and reignited a dormant program, winning the national championship with an injured throwing arm. In October 2000, three highly rated programs, two of which were led by the reigning co-offensive MVPs of the conference, were left panting on the field following JH's efforts. The Sooners are 5-1 for the millennium against the Longhorns.

[SoonerShark]

Does the fact that UT got to the 2005 Rose Bowl solely because of Mack's whining and World Championship Wrestling referees giving UT the win in 2004 against Kansas taint VY's accomplishments any?

[yermom]

VY had one amazing season, Josh had two. Josh did it against better conference talent. Vy did it against better out of conference talent. Defenses in the big 12 this year were abyssmal.
The only people giving vy INK are the bandwagon idiots that are going to say the same thing either next season or the following about somebody else.

i'm thinking VY's performance in 2004 was better than Heupel's in '99

one loss in Dallas, vs a loss in Dallas and 4 more...

if you take off the Crimson Glasses VY really proved himself last year, just like Josh did in 2000, but i think you could argue Vince has a better resume

Josh might have a better mind for the game, but VY has a lot of talent, and apparently instinct to make up for his deficiency ;)

[Dances with Possums]

If you poll neutral fans (i.e. fans who are not Sooners or Longhorns), the choice would overwhelmingly be Vince.

[mdklatt]

If you poll neutral fans (i.e. fans who are not Sooners or Longhorns), the choice would overwhelmingly be Vince.

Most neutral fans probably wouldn't remember who Josh Heupel is. His MNC game wasn't hyped as the GREATEST EVER SPORTING EVENT OF ALL TIME IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE WE'RE NOT KIDDING, and the defenses came to play in the Orange Bowl so Heupel wasn't moving up and down the field at will (like he did against UT that year).

[Seamus]

Most neutral fans probably wouldn't remember who Josh Heupel is. His MNC game wasn't hyped as the GREATEST EVER SPORTING EVENT OF ALL TIME IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE WE'RE NOT KIDDING, and the defenses came to play in the Orange Bowl so Heupel wasn't moving up and down the field at will (like he did against UT that year).


Ownage. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gif

[Salt City Sooner]

"i'm thinking VY's performance in 2004 was better than Heupel's in '99"
If you're talking purely statistics, Josh's '99 season was easily better than Josh '00. You could tell just by watching that his overall game in '00 had improved substantially (IIRC, his efficiency rating did go up a point or 2) from the year before, but his individual numbers did not reflect that, due in large part to the fact that we actually attempted to run the ball under Mangino in '00.

[planosooner]

i'm thinking VY's performance in 2004 was better than Heupel's in '99

one loss in Dallas, vs a loss in Dallas and 4 more...

if you take off the Crimson Glasses VY really proved himself last year, just like Josh did in 2000, but i think you could argue Vince has a better resume

Josh might have a better mind for the game, but VY has a lot of talent, and apparently instinct to make up for his deficiency ;)

Think I'm gonna agree with you here. I know Josh was a great leader and decision maker on the field, but how can you say that Vince wasn't. There is no comparison in athleticism between the two of them. So for you that pick Josh on this one...in what way is he supposedly better? Passing? His passes (although on target....looked like punts most of the time). This wouldn't even be close if you asked neutral people. I know the hatred runs deep, but this is just silly.

[TexasLidig8r]

With two minutes left in a national championship game, and your team is down by 5 points, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown....

Give me the proven commodity.

Josh Heupel was a very good quarterback, one the Sooners should rightly be proud of with no comparison to any other quarterback necessary. (Quite frankly, that is just a bit too aggyish)....

Vince had this incredible ability to pull out victories though.

[planosooner]

With two minutes left in a national championship game, and your team is down by 5 points, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown....

Give me the proven commodity.

Josh Heupel was a very good quarterback, one the Sooners should rightly be proud of with no comparison to any other quarterback necessary. (Quite frankly, that is just a bit too aggyish)....

Vince had this incredible ability to pull out victories though.


Reggie or Josh? Think I'm going to slip this one in on Texags in a bit. :)

[Octavian]

With two minutes left in a national championship game, and your team is down by 5 points, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown....

Give me the proven commodity.

Josh Heupel was a very good quarterback, one the Sooners should rightly be proud of with no comparison to any other quarterback necessary. (Quite frankly, that is just a bit too aggyish)....

Vince had this incredible ability to pull out victories though.

I like conversations like this one. Its a good historical question. Comparing two national championship quarterbacks from rival programs...makes sense. Its not like we're comparing VY and Steve Collins or anything. Ehh...blame the offseason. ;)

[Jello Biafra]

Where was Josh drafted?

i think the more important question is.....


what will be the catchphrase vince will use when you open the door.
will it be

"HI!!! WELCOME TO CICI's"
"thank you for choosing burger king may i take your order?"
"would you like to biggie size that frosty?"

or will it be

"bomar, bootleg 20 streak right"?

josh is a position coach 3 years out from his last snap from center. not a coordinator but, it'll only be a matter of time.
the only position vince will coaching will be doggystyle when he's out of football. intelligence beats ability. period. and an intelligent general with a intelligent TEAM will always win.

i think you get the point.

[CobraKai]

With two minutes left in a national championship game, and your team is down by 5 points, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown....

Give me the proven commodity.

Josh Heupel was a very good quarterback, one the Sooners should rightly be proud of with no comparison to any other quarterback necessary. (Quite frankly, that is just a bit too aggyish)....

Vince had this incredible ability to pull out victories though.

I get your point, but Josh had that same ability. It always seemed that anytime you needed a key score or first down that Josh pulled it out. I can say that in his entire tenure at OU we NEVER lost a game because he did not do his job. Ever. The 5 games he lost in his career were defensive meltdowns. In fact, Josh only had one game in his entire career that we never had a double digit lead, and that was aTm in 2000.

Josh' best asset was his accurate arm. Josh led his team to the title with awful bursitis in his elbow. He essentially could not throw. Do you think Vince could have willed Texas to that NC win had he torn up his knee and not been able to run? Perhaps. I'm just not sure.

[Duke o Brewery]

Here's the breakdown IMO:
(Keep in mind that I think both players excelled in nearly every category)

Football Mind - Big edge Heupel
Athleticism - Big edge Young
Team Leadership - Edge Heupel
Playmaking - Edge Young
Passing Skill - Edge Heupel
Running/Scrambling - Big edge Young
Mental Toughness - Edge Heupel
Overall NFL capability - Edge Young
National Championships - Tie

[CobraKai]

Football Mind - Big edge Heupel
Athleticism - Big edge Young
Team Leadership - Edge Heupel
Playmaking - Edge Young
Passing Skill - Edge Heupel
Running/Scrambling - Big edge Young
Mental Toughness - Edge Heupel
Overall NFL capability - Young
National Championships - Tie

I have to say that I will be very surprised if VY makes an impact as an NFL QB. I just don't see it. I don't debate that the guy runs better than any QB in recent memory, or that he throws a tight spiral, but he has arguably the worst mechanics of any QB in the draft, and (if rumors are true) does not pogress thru reads beyond 1. Supposedly he looks at 1 then takes off. You flat-out cannot do that in the NFL. Period. Unless he learns to read a D, and not rely on improvisational skills I just don't see it. Of course, I also thought that Ryan Leaf would be a bust and look how that turned out. Oh, wait a second, nevermind. ;)

[CobraKai]

Also, how would you rank the two in these categories:

Ability to hire a competent agent
Ability to speak English
Ability to not wear a "Jimmy Hat" on his head all the time
Ability to have a name that everyone mispells
Ability to pursue a career in coaching -OR- public speaking

Think about it....

[TexasLidig8r]

I have to say that I will be very surprised if VY makes an impact as a college QB. I just don't see it. I don't debate that the guy runs better than any high school QB in recent memory, or that he throws a tight spiral, but he has arguably the worst mechanics of any QB who were major recruits, and (if rumors are true) does not pogress thru reads beyond 1. Supposedly he looks at 1 then takes off. You flat-out cannot do that in Division 1 college football. Period. Unless he learns to read a D, and not rely on improvisational skills I just don't see it. ;)

fixed it there for you.. at least.. that's what many were saying of Vince coming out of high school.

Time will tell.

[TexasLidig8r]

. . .. intelligence beats ability. period. and an intelligent general with a intelligent TEAM will always win.

i think you get the point.

Matt Leinart is allegedly regarded as a much more "intelligent general." Matt Leinart was coached by allegedly two "geniuses" of the game. Matt Leinart's head coach at USC was looked upon as a "genius" of the game who, with a month to prepare, would devise a plan to defeat any player/team.

Mack has been bashed on here on a daily basis as being second in intelligence only to Amy the Wonder Dog.

Your "point" apparently has a significant hole in its reasoning.

Granted, in most circumstances, you are correct.... but.. there are very notable exceptions.

[CobraKai]

fixed it there for you.. at least.. that's what many were saying of Vince coming out of high school.

Time will tell.

Agreed...time will tell. I'm just stating my opinion. I just can't think of a QB in the last 20 years that has been successful in the NFL without being able to progress past his first read in the passing game. On the other hand I can name dozens and dozens of college QBs that were quite successful. It is just a different game, and one that I personally don't see VY adapting to. If he was smarter I may change my thinking, but learning does not appear to be his God-given talent.

[CobraKai]

Of course my logic is based on the premise that VY CAN'T progress, as has been rumored. If that assumption is incorrect, then well, house of cards and such...

[Jello Biafra]

Matt Leinart is allegedly regarded as a much more "intelligent general." Matt Leinart was coached by allegedly two "geniuses" of the game. Matt Leinart's head coach at USC was looked upon as a "genius" of the game who, with a month to prepare, would devise a plan to defeat any player/team.

Mack has been bashed on here on a daily basis as being second in intelligence only to Amy the Wonder Dog.

Your "point" apparently has a significant hole in its reasoning.

Granted, in most circumstances, you are correct.... but.. there are very notable exceptions.

i don't think i watched more than 5 minutes of that game however.........the little bit i DID see of the game, USC had some stupid mistakes. did they not? stupid mistakes by your opponent and help from the ref in a few plays= the game you guys won. like i said about this time last year..... grats on your 20 seconds of dominance.......(of a better team than meat chicken last year)

the best QB in the history of the college game IMO doesn't win a game in the last seconds.... he controls the entire game.

try another argument, homeowner....


by the way
until Young came around, skidmarks couldn't win a big game to save his life. i'd be willing to bet he won't win another.

[winnard]

Apples to Oranges



You mean 'Applewhites to Orangebowls'.



winnard

[TexasLidig8r]

i don't think i watched more than 5 minutes of that game however.........

So your opinion is not based on an informed analysis of the entire game taking all factors into account.. just your bias and preconceived notions.

One usually has to wander off to texags.com to read that sort of thing. :rolleyes:

[planosooner]

i don't think i watched more than 5 minutes of that game however.........the little bit i DID see of the game, USC had some stupid mistakes. did they not? stupid mistakes by your opponent and help from the ref in a few plays= the game you guys won. like i said about this time last year..... grats on your 20 seconds of dominance.......(of a better team than meat chicken last year)

the best QB in the history of the college game IMO doesn't win a game in the last seconds.... he controls the entire game.

try another argument, homeowner....


by the way
until Young came around, skidmarks couldn't win a big game to save his life. i'd be willing to bet he won't win another.

The dude did control/dominate the ENTIRE game (not just 20 seconds). Your post reminds me of Ned.... the "so we don't get French benefits?" guy. Some people really need to watch more than the OU/TX game before trying to come on here and talk football.

[BASSooner]

several things won UT the game, QB, offensive line, and defense. However, it took more than the OL and defense to win that game. VY was the cream of the crop. Without him, their is no arguement that USC would've had that game, but calling VY the greatest college QB ever just from running (not passing) the ball to the endzone is completey ridiculous. He is looked upon as the best QB for beating a stereotypical great team in the last 20 seconds of the game, that is all. USC was awesome, but not Godly as a lot of people would consider and what a lot of people would LIKE to consider(coughWHORNScough, not all whorns though). Overrall, VY did great in that game, just not the best college football QB ever to set foot on the field.

[Jello Biafra]

The dude did control/dominate the ENTIRE game (not just 20 seconds). Your post reminds me of Ned.... the "so we don't get French benefits?" guy. Some people really need to watch more than the OU/TX game before trying to come on here and talk football.

bitch please. I got more experience PLAYING football than you have watched. ive spent more time in a football helmet than you have hair. I don't NEED to watch the entire game to know whats going on. they have this new program called sportcenter not to mention fox sports southwest.

you and the lid need to get out of the 69 for a few seconds and realize your opinion of Vince is not going to be anyone else's and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. He did NOT dominate that game. if he did, the game wouldn't have been that close. as a matter of fact, as i recall, texas was down quite a few points going into the fourth quarter. so......he dominated a quarter of the game. as i recall, this argument started because someone said vince young is the best college QB of all time. eh i disagree for more than a few reasons. first, there are those first couple of years in the Red river game in which he spent more time on his back than those whoores you guys call cheerleaders.
second, he has DECENT stats over his career. but..........how much of those stats came against the north texas' of the world when the game was well in hand? how many of those seasons did he have all the talent in the world around him?
third,how many times did he lose the game for all intents and purposes but the defense or special teams or his runningbacks bail him out? this is not a kid who came into every game throwing a TD game and throwing an int every 30-50 passes. this is a kid that threw more ints than tds for the first two years he was on campus. lets control the talk about the greatest of all time for the ones who are truly there. can we whoornes?

and lid, for this:

So your opinion is not based on an informed analysis of the entire game taking all factors into account.. just your bias and preconceived notions.

One usually has to wander off to texags.com to read that sort of thing.

whatever dude. look up to the top of this post. While you were reading the nancy drew series in 2nd grade, i was playing football and hittin yer girlfriend in the bushes at school. analyze this.

btw, how are those genital warts coming along? skinny dipping in the Gayman islands isn't exactly a good idea.

[TexasLidig8r]

as a matter of fact, as i recall, texas was down quite a few points going into the fourth quarter. so......he dominated a quarter of the game.

and lid, for this:

So your opinion is not based on an informed analysis of the entire game taking all factors into account.. just your bias and preconceived notions.

One usually has to wander off to texags.com to read that sort of thing.

whatever dude. look up to the top of this post. While you were reading the nancy drew series in 2nd grade, i was playing football and hittin yer girlfriend in the bushes at school. analyze this.

btw, how are those genital warts coming along? skinny dipping in the Gayman islands isn't exactly a good idea.

Dominated for a quarter?

30 of 40 for 267 and 200 yards running for the game... which by the way, is a Rose Bowl record for most total yards in the game.

Let me guess.. you believe that prior to the 4th Quarter, he was 0 - 10 for 0 yards and 0 yards running.

Why don't you stop while you're behind. The more you type, the more you confirm your place in the "Idiot Hall of Shame." The only thing more parochial than your views of Vince in the Rose Bowl is the manner in which you attempt to insult or argue. Both demonstrate a remedial level at best. :rolleyes:

[Big John]

Vince Young has proven that a monkey coached by a *****=National Championship

[Jello Biafra]

Dominated for a quarter?

30 of 40 for 267 and 200 yards running for the game... which by the way, is a Rose Bowl record for most total yards in the game.

Let me guess.. you believe that prior to the 4th Quarter, he was 0 - 10 for 0 yards and 0 yards running.

Why don't you stop while you're behind. The more you type, the more you confirm your place in the "Idiot Hall of Shame." The only thing more parochial than your views of Vince in the Rose Bowl is the manner in which you attempt to insult or argue. Both demonstrate a remedial level at best. :rolleyes:

from mack brown football:


Drive Chart (By Quarter)

Drive Started Drive Ended Consumed
Team Qtr Spot Time Obtained Spot Time How Lost Pl-Yds TOP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
USC 1st H12 15:00 Kickoff H15 13:39 Punt 3-3 01:21
UT 1st U46 00:00 Punt U46 13:39 Fumble 0-0 00:00
USC 1st U46 13:39 Fumble U00 12:27 *TOUCHDOWN 5-46 01:12
UT 1st U20 12:27 Kickoff H49 09:32 Downs 6-31 02:55
USC 1st H49 09:32 Downs U17 06:04 Downs 9-34 03:28
UT 1st U17 06:04 Downs U44 02:21 Punt 6-27 03:43
USC 1st H17 02:21 Punt U18 14:40 Fumble 7-65 02:41

UT 2nd U19 14:40 Fumble H29 10:38 *FIELD GOAL 9-52 04:02
USC 2nd H27 10:38 Kickoff U25 06:50 Interception 8-48 03:48
UT 2nd U20 06:50 Interception H00 04:57 *TOUCHDOWN 7-80 01:53
USC 2nd H33 04:57 Kickoff H26 03:46 Punt 3--7 01:11
UT 2nd U49 03:46 Punt H00 02:34 *TOUCHDOWN 4-51 01:12
USC 2nd H20 02:34 Kickoff U26 00:02 *FIELD GOAL 11-54 02:32
UT 2nd U24 00:02 Kickoff U22 00:00 End of half 1--2 00:02

UT 3rd U19 15:00 Kickoff U23 14:03 Punt 3-4 00:57
USC 3rd H38 14:03 Punt U00 10:36 *TOUCHDOWN 7-62 03:27
UT 3rd U20 10:36 Kickoff H00 08:34 *TOUCHDOWN 7-80 02:02
USC 3rd H26 08:34 Kickoff U00 04:07 *TOUCHDOWN 9-74 04:27
UT 3rd U20 04:07 Kickoff H14 14:55 Missed FG 9-66 04:12

USC 4th H20 14:55 Missed FG U00 11:19 *TOUCHDOWN 9-80 03:36
UT 4th U31 11:19 Kickoff H17 08:46 *FIELD GOAL 9-52 02:33
USC 4th H20 08:46 Kickoff U00 06:42 *TOUCHDOWN 4-80 02:04
UT 4th U31 06:42 Kickoff H00 04:03 *TOUCHDOWN 8-69 02:39
USC 4th H34 04:03 Kickoff U44 02:09 Downs 6-22 01:54
UT 4th U44 02:09 Downs H00 00:19 *TOUCHDOWN 10-56 01:50
USC 4th H31 00:19 Kickoff U42 00:00 End of half 2-27 00:19


you show me anything in there that shows that vince did ANYTHING until the late 3rd quarter.

[TexasLidig8r]

Look at the drives ending in touchdown and field goal to start with... look at the drive ending in a missed field goal (oh that's right, you can't.. you didn't watch the game!)

Oh, that's right.. Chance Mock was playing until the 4th.

You just keep shoveling the dirt on top of yourself.

[Jello Biafra]

Look at the drives ending in touchdown and field goal to start with... look at the drive ending in a missed field goal (oh that's right, you can't.. you didn't watch the game!)

Oh, that's right.. Chance Mock was playing until the 4th.

You just keep shoveling the dirt on top of yourself.

lets look at all the ones that ended other than tds...


look moron, young scored 3 times in the second half. starting at the 8 minute mark how many points did he directly contribute before that? none. both tds before that were running backs one for 12 and the other for 30. yeh yeh young got them down there. but the fact remains he did not DOMINATE. that what the main premise is here or is it you just think you can argue a point into the ground because you passed the bar?

you're not going to change my mind and im not on trial so shut yer azz. until vince went off late in the third quarter, texas was well on their way to a loss. young stepped up late in the game but did not dominate. uscs defense couldn't stop the passes when they needed to but shut down the run well into the third quarter then just gave up the pootie. you won the nc. grats. mack brown won't sniff another and hopefully your keyboard will lockup and you will be too stupid to buy another.

[TexasLidig8r]

Biafra.. obviously, your football knowledge is most likely equivalent to your knowledge of fornication.. both are obviously lacking.

Stay with your tinker toys and painting by numbers.. both pasttimes more suitable to a person of your obvious lack of intellect.

[Jello Biafra]

Biafra.. obviously, your football knowledge is most likely equivalent to your knowledge of fornication.. both are obviously lacking.

Stay with your tinker toys and painting by numbers.. both pasttimes more suitable to a person of your obvious lack of intellect.

yeh, typical. don't bother arguing points or anything.

"you're a stupid head and im smarter than you"

ROFL nice argument. ill step down to your level for a few. you suck. i rock. you're mother thinks my fornication skills are good so.....:P

[BASSooner]

How about I just break it down, shall I? Alright. We can debate all day who would be better at which. Each QB had their own weaknesses and strengths that countered each other. Vince had the athleticism, and Josh had the brains. I don't think you really can argue who was a better overrall quarterback. Both of those 2 are COMPLETELY different if you think about it. It's almost like saying who was the better Roy Williams? What kind of question is that? One played defense and the other played offense. Sure we can all choose which QB we want. Personally, I would choose Josh because of better passing abilities and the ability to read defenses. But like I said, that is me, and everyone else has their own opinion about QBs

[Jello Biafra]

*crickets chirping*

be careful counselor,

you're showing a little beaver

http://www.lowfidelity.org/~nosfe/grey_park/data/GreyOwlandBeaver.gif

[MojoRisen]

Josh made little plays - that baffled me with people trying to kill him- he in his own right was always in a zone- ZONE= Championships

Two Qbs who won one- yeah - I would take Heuple - He was the Fn shiat -

123- Touchdown 123 touchdown- 63-14 was the first of a few strings of Cottons bowls I put together !

[Skysooner]

The corresponding thread on Hornfans has been removed. Guess they couldn't handle debate, lol. Seriously though, the only comparison I'm really interested in now is Bomar vs. Snead/McCoy.

I had the pleasure of watching Josh for a couple of years, and he was a great college quarterback. He and Vince were both different kinds of QBs and both were great in their own way. Trying to compare players like this on different teams and different circumstances is ridiculous. Remember, the Whorns were the ones defending putting Simms in over Applewhite even when he hadn't earned it.

[TexasLidig8r]

Remember, some of the Whorns were the ones defending putting Simms in over Applewhite even when he hadn't earned it.

fixed it.

That was the precursor to Thompson vs. Bomar that provided some interesting reading on here last year.

[Skysooner]

fixed it.

That was the precursor to Thompson vs. Bomar that provided some interesting reading on here last year.

Agreed, and I was mainly referring to some of the more notorious posters over on Whornfans. I have never had a problem with any of you guys over here (beyond the obvious trolls).

This was interesting anyway.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/draft/prospects/OFF/

[Big Red Ron]

fixed it.

That was the precursor to Thompson vs. Bomar that provided some interesting reading on here last year.The biggest difference being that our coach wasn't as confused as the posters here.

[Hook 'Em Horns]

JH, theirs no question. VY won that by himself. JH didn't do that, the team did. The team won the national championship in 2000, not just josh


Wrong...

Josh is a coach and if he were half as good as most of you are proclaiming he would still be a QB, not a former QB.

Only one of them is still a QB.

[Big Red Ron]

Wrong...

Josh is a coach and if he were half as good as most of you are proclaiming he would still be a QB, not a former QB.

Only one of them is still a QB.I wouldn't expect you to know this but Josh shattered his passing wrist/hand after he threw a pass in a preseason game for the Dolphins. His follow through hit a d-lineman's facemask. He broke several small bones and had reconstructive surgeries over two years. He never got his grip back.

I hope Vince gets a "clean shot" at the NFL and passes/fails on his own merit not by injury.

[Hook 'Em Horns]

8/15/2001 Heupel had a second opinion on his left wrist, and it was consistent with the Dolphins' treatment suggestion: no surgery, and wait a couple of weeks for the range of motion to return.

8/21/2001 Heupel (left wrist injury) threw for the first time in a week on Saturday before the game against San Diego.

8/23/2001 The trade for Cade McNown should spell the end of Heupel's hopes to make the Dolphins.

8/28/2001 Heupel was waived by the Dolphins on Tuesday.

10/24/2001 A scheduled workout for Heupel with the Bengals has been postponed, the Cincinnati Enquirer reports.

2/8/2002 Heupel was signed by Green Bay.

4/30/2002 During Heupel's first minicamp his performance was little short of awful, the Sports Xchange reports.

6/14/2002 Heupel was released by the Packers.

Someone should have told him, the Bengals and the Packers. The three of them seemed to think all was okay.

He was simply a product if the dink and dunk system. Similar to Tedford QB's and those of the UF years. They're great college QB's that can't make it in the NFL.

[Big Red Ron]

Well, you can take second hand info and make assumptions if you like. Heupel was waived by the fish and he did try out after the injury. The question always was can the wrist heal. He had a surgical proceedure on the wrist while a Packer. Trust me, he was damaged goods.

What will Vince's excuse be? "I'm just dumb?"

[Big Red Ron]

BTW, the fish tried to cut him early because he had been injured without paying him, which they eventually did.

[Soonerman08]

With two minutes left in a national championship game, and your team is down by 5 points, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown....

Give me the proven commodity.

Josh Heupel was a very good quarterback, one the Sooners should rightly be proud of with no comparison to any other quarterback necessary. (Quite frankly, that is just a bit too aggyish)....

Vince had this incredible ability to pull out victories though.


Where was this incredible ability when they were shutout or when he managed a measley 13 points? At least Heupel went against some of the top defenses in the nation. Vince Young couldn't even manage to do that. Sorry but as far as being the better quarterback, gotta hand it to Heupel...he went against Florida State, Texas, KSU (twice), and Nebraska which had some awesome defenses. All top 20 caliber......USC's defense this past season was pretty bad, no where near as good as when we played in them in 2004.