The Continuing Adventures of the Stupidest Basketball Team on Earth

[JohnnyMack]

I'd say "unbelievable", but it really isn't.

Sunshine pump it.

[KABOOKIE]

We lose in the 1st round of the dance. Bookout it.

[Soonerus]

Sunshine: We get to rest for the NCAA's....

[chriscappel]

Call me n00b but what is a sunshine pumper?

[oumartin]

um, not knowing what a sunshine pumper is doens't make you a noob. its makes you clueless.

No really, its a person that sees the bright side in situations that are hopeless.

[chriscappel]

um, not knowing what a sunshine pumper is doens't make you a noob. its makes you clueless.

No really, its a person that sees the bright side in situations that are hopeless.

ahhh....makes sense...thanks!

[ouradu]

I thought Everett's decisions in the final seconds kinda epitomized it all. 20 or so secs left down three he forces a three pointer when we could have gotten an easy 2 and forced them to make free throws... then down 6 with under 10 seconds to go, he drives the lane. We are just the dumbest group of basketball players ever.

[TopDawg]

Call me n00b but what is a sunshine pumper?

Essentially it's an optimist. But it sounds worse than optimists. That's why the pessimists use it.

Some people think sunshine pumpers are people who shine artificial light on a dark situation. The sunshine pumpers typically think they're merely showing the sunshine suckers where the light already is.

Typically it's a term used to mock fans of other teams who try to make their teams' situation more hopeful. This year, however, it's become cool among a faction of SoonerFans.com posters to refer to other Soonerfans.com posters as sunshine pumpers.

Apparently, they're so negative about the state of the OU men's basketball program, it upsets them that some fans are positive about it and they've felt the need to turn it into an "us v. them" thing.

They're the type of fans who, if things go well in the NCAA tourney, will join in the celebration with statements like "I'm glad I as wrong!!!"

[JohnnyMack]

They're the type of fans who, if things go well in the NCAA tourney, will join in the celebration with statements like "I'm glad I as wrong!!!"

Watching this team this year, I'm not thinking you and I will be celebrating much together. :D

[ouradu]

They're the type of fans who, if things go well in the NCAA tourney, will join in the celebration with statements like "I'm glad I as wrong!!!"Any team can get hot one night and pull off a couple wins in the tourney, take the 99 team that was the last team in the tourney and went to the sweet sixteen. Was that a great team? No, but it was fun to watch their tourney run. If we make a tourney run I'll enjoy it, but come on, just because they make it to the sweet sixteen or better doesn't make this team's season less disapointing. You can't make up for what they've done in just a couple games. We've severely underacheived and we've done it with some incredibly stupid style.

[RacerX]

I'm so glad they got rid of topdawg.

[TopDawg]

If we make a tourney run I'll enjoy it, but come on, just because they make it to the sweet sixteen or better doesn't make this team's season less disapointing.

If an Elite 8 run doesn't make this season less disappointing to you, I think that says more about you than about this team.


You can't make up for what they've done in just a couple games. We've severely underacheived and we've done it with some incredibly stupid style.

You act as though they are sitting on the tournament bubble (like the 99 team). Sure, they're on a two game losing streak and have played poorly in both games, but they were also a conference champion contender until the last Saturday of the season.

[TopDawg]

I'm so glad they got rid of topdawg.

First year of TopDawg's hiatus = worst football/men's basketball combination in several years.

[TopDawg]

Watching this team this year, I'm not thinking you and I will be celebrating much together. :D

Well, I saw this team compete with Nova on the road. I saw this team handle Texas in Norman. I saw this team get up by 16 on the road at Kansas (I won't stop you from pointing out the bad parts of our wins, if you won't stop me from pointing out the good points in our losses).

Yeah, it hasn't looked good the past two games, but it has looked good at other times. This team is up and down. I won't be surprised if we make it into the Elite 8. I won't be surprised if we lose in the 2nd round. I will be surprised (and upset) if we lose in the 1st round.

[JohnnyMack]

Ya know what TD? We may disagree on the state of the basketball program, but I'll spek you for your location. Gawd I love that show.

[RacerX]

First year of TopDawg's hiatus = worst football/men's basketball combination in several years.

:D You know how I really feel.

[jk the sooner fan]

well i wondered if any of the sunshine pumpers opinions about this team had changed, after reading TD's assessment, i guess not

this is a team that is 6-4 over the last 10 games, with 4 of those victories coming as 1 pt wins over teams that wont be going to the dance

TD made the argument in a now deleted thread that we could have beaten nebraska earlier in the season if it hadnt been for the absence of one player - Neal

well we had him last nite, same results.....a team that is supposed to be, or predicted to be, good (use your own definition of that) and cant win games they "have to win (or need)".......well, i just think we're very overrated......i still love em and i still cheer for em......i'm just disappointed, but i'll be back next season for another spoonful of whatever they're serving

[ouradu]

If an Elite 8 run doesn't make this season less disappointing to you, I think that says more about you than about this team.
That's kinda funny. Yeah, and if they win the national title and I'm still disapointed... Come on, why stop at elite 8? Why not go ahead and say I'd still be disapointed if they win the whole thing? The point is the season is over now, and looking back they were a big disapointment and their play over the season gives me no reason to feel they will play any better. Now, we have a new season starting this week and while nothing they do in the course of a couple tourney games will undo this season, they sure have the ability to accomplish something. A sweet sixteen run is what this team should be expected to accomplish, except that their poor performance in the regular season is going to put them in a very difficult position to accomplish that. I'll be ecstatic for this team for every single tourney game they win, but the point is they underachieved this season and if you can't see that then that says something about you.



You act as though they are sitting on the tournament bubble (like the 99 team). Sure, they're on a two game losing streak and have played poorly in both games, but they were also a conference champion contender until the last Saturday of the season.When we stepped on the court Sunday we weren't playing for anything. The title was gone. This season isn't about the last two games, though... it's about the fact that we should have been much much better and should never have lost to West Virginia by 20+, Nebraska, Mizzou, blown a lead against Kansas, Nebraska again, and shouldn't have struggled as often as we did to get the wins we did get. One or two close wins in a season is a sign of a tough, good team, but to have to have to do it so often including vs. SMU, is a sign of something else.

This is a team with great potential, and I think they have the ability to turn it on and make a run, but you can't tell me that the way they have played over the course of this entire season gives you any confidence that they will play well enough to make the elite 8 run you alluded to, but I'll be excited with them for even a first round win. All I'm doing is looking back at the season performance and realizing that this team hasn't done anything but disapoint. And more importantly, they way they've played is the frustrating part. It hasn't been a matter of being out matched, it's been stupid mistakes and just dumb play that's done this. I can handle being outmatched, but to just do it to yourself is painful.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

okay, let me see if i have this correct...

its cool to be negative about the chances of the basketball team, but uncool to be negative about the chances of the football team. is this the mysterious second definition of "football school"?

[ouradu]

and as an addendum, I don't know that htis team's resume is any better than the 99 team, actually. We really are hanging our hat on one win against Texas. I guess our second biggest win was at A&M? The Alabama win isn't that impressive, but that's our third best win, along with at home against A&M. I just don't think we've accomplished anything and should be glad we get the chance to play next week. Compare our resume without the preseason hype to some of the bubble teams, and we are really right there with them.

Nonetheless, who ever the committee lines us up against, I think we can beat them, and I sure hope we get right in the head and give ourselves a chance.

[jk the sooner fan]

okay, let me see if i have this correct...

its cool to be negative about the chances of the basketball team, but uncool to be negative about the chances of the football team. is this the mysterious second definition of "football school"?

you arent the typical casual fan, so yes, you have it correct

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

well, that's a first

[Beef]

Try to compare the Sampson situation to your own job.
As an accountant, I would be looking for a new job if the SEC was investigating my work, hot shots that I hired left after tax season because they didn't enjoy working for me and financial reporting was finished early or on time some months, and late other months. Unless, of course, I was hired to consistenly produce inconsistent work.

[OUstud]

Can anyone think of a player that you have a love-hate relationship with more than TE?

[CtheB]

Try to compare the Sampson situation to your own job.
As an accountant, I would be looking for a new job if the SEC was investigating my work, hot shots that I hired left after tax season because they didn't enjoy working for me and financial reporting was finished early or on time some months, and late other months. Unless, of course, I was hired to consistenly produce inconsistent work.

Goodness, that's a great point. Spek.

[JohnnyMack]

okay, let me see if i have this correct...

its cool to be negative about the chances of the basketball team, but uncool to be negative about the chances of the football team. is this the mysterious second definition of "football school"?

I think those who are negative about the basketball team are more to the point about it than those who are negative about the football team. Seems some of the football detractors don't always have the stones to come out and say, "I think (insert coaches name here) is doing a bad job" or "I don't like (insert coaches name here), I think he's a putz."

Except Nick, he just doesn't make much sense.

[MikeInNorman]

okay, let me see if i have this correct...

its cool to be negative about the chances of the basketball team, but uncool to be negative about the chances of the football team. is this the mysterious second definition of "football school"?

Quite correct. At a "football school", the football team's problems are the fault of the Offensive Coordinator, while the basketball team's problems are the fault of the Head Coach.

It's simple, really.

[sanantoniosooner]

I think there are less trolls bashing the basketball team. That makes it different.

It's a nationwide thing to bash the football team.

[MikeInNorman]

I think those who are negative about the basketball team are more to the point about it than those who are negative about the football team. Seems some of the football detractors don't always have the stones to come out and say, "I think Bob Stoops is doing a bad job" or "I don't like Bob Stoops, I think he's a putz."

Except Nick, he just doesn't make much sense.

Fixed. :D

[MikeInNorman]

I think there are less trolls bashing the basketball team.

Haven't been to OUInsider lately, I see......

[sanantoniosooner]

Haven't been to OUInsider lately, I see......
I don't visit that board at all.

[MikeInNorman]

I don't visit that board at all.

Over there, I beleive they are called "Cleti" rather than trolls. And there are plenty of them. More than Chuck Long bashers, even. :eek:

[CtheB]

Quite correct. At a "football school", the football team's problems are the fault of the Offensive Coordinator, while the basketball team's problems are the fault of the Head Coach.

It's simple, really.

Except in football, the head coach has won a national title, contended for two more, made it to football's version of the Final 4 in all but two years, restored the team to national prominence, has represented the university very well in a much higher national stature, hasn't gotten into trouble with the NCAA, and is arguably one of the top three in his vocation.

Yes, you are correct.

[TopDawg]

That's kinda funny. Yeah, and if they win the national title and I'm still disapointed... Come on, why stop at elite 8? Why not go ahead and say I'd still be disapointed if they win the whole thing?

I was using your words, not mine: "just because they make it to the sweet sixteen or better doesn't make this team's season less disapointing."




but the point is they underachieved this season and if you can't see that then that says something about you.

In order to underachieve, there has to be a standard set of what "achievement" is. This team had high hopes in the preseason, but they were based largely on expectations that new players or players in new positions would perform at a high level consistently. We found out early that Walker wasn't going to be as solid as we hoped. We played a significant chunk of our schedule without our best shooter healthy. TE didn't progress as a point guard as well as we had hoped.

I scaled my expectations back a while ago. I chose (and it is a choice) to think "The preseason hype that I bought into was too high." Based on what I saw of our play, this team is right about where I think they should be.


This is a team with great potential, and I think they have the ability to turn it on and make a run, but you can't tell me that the way they have played over the course of this entire season gives you any confidence that they will play well enough to make the elite 8 run you alluded to, but I'll be excited with them for even a first round win.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the Elite 8. Would I put big money on it? No. But that's more because of the nature of college basketball. How many teams would YOU put big money on to make it ot the Elite 8 this year?


All I'm doing is looking back at the season performance and realizing that this team hasn't done anything but disapoint.

I wasn't disappointed in the win over Texas or the two wins over OSU. That's not to say I haven't been disappointed at all, because I have. But I've enjoyed this season, frustration and all.


I can handle being outmatched, but to just do it to yourself is painful.

I hear ya.

[TopDawg]

made it to football's version of the Final 4 in all but two years,

I'd argue that making it to the BCS championship game is closer to the equivalent of the Final 4, not just any BCS game.

[CtheB]

I'd argue that making it to the BCS championship game is closer to the equivalent of the Final 4, not just any BCS game.

Then he makes it to football's equivalent of the Final 4 in half of his years as head coach.:P

[TopDawg]

okay, let me see if i have this correct...

its cool to be negative about the chances of the basketball team, but uncool to be negative about the chances of the football team. is this the mysterious second definition of "football school"?

It's funny to me how many similarities there are between the two this year. Sampson's biggest mistake was waiting until the 8th game to lose one he should've won, allowing fans to hold on to those preseason expectations longer than Stoops did.

[TopDawg]

Then he makes it to football's equivalent of the Final 4 in half of his years as head coach.:P

Yeah, I wasn't trying to knock Stoops...clearly he's done a great job. I just think it's easier to make it into the BCS than it is to make it to the Final 4 (see 2004 Pitt).

[TopDawg]

well i wondered if any of the sunshine pumpers opinions about this team had changed, after reading TD's assessment, i guess not

Not so fast...I don't speak for all sunshine pumpers.

I think the anti-sunshineers think that all sunshine pumpers think we'll win every game. That's not where I stand. I thought we should've won that game, but I knew we had a good chance to lose it. That's the nature of March basketball.


this is a team that is 6-4 over the last 10 games, with 4 of those victories coming as 1 pt wins over teams that wont be going to the dance

Yes, but it's also a team that has beaten another dance team and played with two more on the road. This team has proven that they can beat the top teams and that they can lose to the bottom teams. I'll focus more on the positive, you can focus more on the negative and we can still be friends.


i still love em and i still cheer for em......i'm just disappointed, but i'll be back next season for another spoonful of whatever they're serving

I'm glad you said that. It's also a good summary of how I feel. I'm still positive about our tourny chances this year (for the reasons listed above) but I can see how someone wouldn't be.

I just take issue with the vibe on this board that it's naive to be hopeful/positive. And I also don't agree with the idea that Sampson isn't doing a good job. I don't see where the people in that boat are coming from. Even if I give you that the team underachieved this year, he's still only one year removed from a conference championship.

[jk the sooner fan]

im not on the "get rid of Sampson" bandwagon.....far from it

i'm frustrated with his seemingly inability to appropriately judge how talented his team would/should be

like you, i gave up on all the preseason hype earlier in the season - at the SMU game to be exact.......there we sat in Moody Coliseum, Sooner fans far outnumbering SMU fans.......and we almost lost that game (and should have).....I knew right then that we were not the team we'd been led to believe we had

i think alot of the sunshine pumpers are just hell bent on putting a positive spin on this team.....i agree with you that we are about where we should be...we're looking at a 7-8 seed, and probably a round 1 or 2 exit from the tourney

if all of that doesnt give Sampson cause to do some self reflection and analysis of his team and schemes, THEN i'd be thinking about that bandwagon

coaches are supposed to get better, just like their young teams...he has to realize it starts with him

[MojoRisen]

Well, I saw this team compete with Nova on the road. I saw this team handle Texas in Norman. I saw this team get up by 16 on the road at Kansas (I won't stop you from pointing out the bad parts of our wins, if you won't stop me from pointing out the good points in our losses).

Yeah, it hasn't looked good the past two games, but it has looked good at other times. This team is up and down. I won't be surprised if we make it into the Elite 8. I won't be surprised if we lose in the 2nd round. I will be surprised (and upset) if we lose in the 1st round.


Our schedule allowed us to win 20 games- we are not a good team- knock it off already.. Jesus H Christ- Kelvin how could you allow us to SUCK THIS BAD with a team this highly rated.
Were done- stick a fork in us...

[jk the sooner fan]

thats the problem, we should have never been rated that high.....ever

all smoke and mirrors.....i'd be happy if the sunshine pumpers just admitted that we're not that good, and that any "hope" we have in the tourney is just that......"hope"

there's a difference between hope and expectations

[TopDawg]

if all of that doesnt give Sampson cause to do some self reflection and analysis of his team and schemes, THEN i'd be thinking about that bandwagon

coaches are supposed to get better, just like their young teams...he has to realize it starts with him

I agree, and I think he will.

I think Sampson's situation is very similar to Stoops'. Both reached big-time national success for their first time as head coach while at OU (granted, Stoops did it much sooner). Both were able to parylay that success into (apparent) recruiting success. Both learned that highly ranked recruits...even the talented ones...don't always pan out. Sometimes personal/emotional issues get in the way. Both struggled through tough seasons this year largely because of some personnel losses. I think both learned their lessons and that's why I'm positive about the future for both.

[MojoRisen]

thats the problem, we should have never been rated that high.....ever

all smoke and mirrors.....i'd be happy if the sunshine pumpers just admitted that we're not that good, and that any "hope" we have in the tourney is just that......"hope"

there's a difference between hope and expectations


I get it- I hope we win/ but get ready for a turning of the stomach as I excpect us to loose the first game and certainly the second.

We can not do any damage in the tourney- no way...

[jk the sooner fan]

i really wish Jay still posted here, i'd love to know his thoughts....seriously

[TopDawg]

all smoke and mirrors.....i'd be happy if the sunshine pumpers just admitted that we're not that good, and that any "hope" we have in the tourney is just that......"hope"

What do you mean by "that good?" We've had some bad losses this year...and some bad wins. But we've also had some good wins and some good losses. This team is very up-and-down.

Are you saying that if we play like we did against Texas at home, we won't win any tourney games? Heck, I would even contend that, starting with the game before Bedlam 2, OSU started playing like a tourney team. I'm confident they'd beat a lot of the teams in the dance. I think our 2nd win against them is a quality win even though nationally it won't be perceived as one. If we play like we played against them, we could win a few tourney games.

We may not be as good as you think the the sunshine pumpers think we are, but we're also not as bad as I think you think we are. We're Jeckyl and Hyde. If Jeckyl shows up, Sweet 16 or Elite 8 maybe. If Hyde shows up, one and done maybe.

[jk the sooner fan]

team is very up and down = inconsistent = not that good

[TopDawg]

there's a difference between hope and expectations

And there's a difference between expectations based on the negative and expectations based on the positive...but they're both expectations based on fact.

[ouradu]

I was using your words, not mine: "just because they make it to the sweet sixteen or better doesn't make this team's season less disapointing."I understood that, but my point was it doesn't make the season less disapointing. I'm separating the season from the second season, the tournament. To me the season is over, now we step into the tournament which to me is a start over deal. The season was still disapointing. Why? To answer the next part of your post...



In order to underachieve, there has to be a standard set of what "achievement" is. This team had high hopes in the preseason, but they were based largely on expectations that new players or players in new positions would perform at a high level consistently. We found out early that Walker wasn't going to be as solid as we hoped. We played a significant chunk of our schedule without our best shooter healthy. TE didn't progress as a point guard as well as we had hoped.

I scaled my expectations back a while ago. I chose (and it is a choice) to think "The preseason hype that I bought into was too high." Based on what I saw of our play, this team is right about where I think they should be. I disagree, with what should be better play in the front court, we should have performed much better. Preseason hype aside, to have met reasonable expectations, this team should not have lost at KU with that lead, this team should not have lost at Neb or in the conf tournament, this team should not have lost to Mizzou. The only game they won that went against my preseason expectations was at OSU, but looking back it would have been disapointing if we had, but I'll swap that to our win at A&M. This team in conference should have gone 13-3, with the only losses being at Tex, at A&M and at Col or at KU, but we should have won at least one of those two games. We also should have beaten WV, especially shouldn't have lost by 20+ to them. We also should have been better than to have to barely beat so many teams, including SMU. We have talent on this team, in my opinion, some of the best talent KS has ever had, with only the 2002 team being clearly more talented, and they didn't live up to expectations by quite a bit.


Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the Elite 8. Would I put big money on it? No. But that's more because of the nature of college basketball. How many teams would YOU put big money on to make it ot the Elite 8 this year?Like I said, I think this team has the ability to make a deep run, and really I would be pleasently surprised if they went to the Final Four, but not totally shocked. I still feel this team is a Final Four caliber team if they had heads on their shoulders and a slightly better offensive scheme.


I wasn't disappointed in the win over Texas or the two wins over OSU. That's not to say I haven't been disappointed at all, because I have. But I've enjoyed this season, frustration and all. By all means, don't misunderstand me, I still love following this team, but like I said and you agreed to lose the way they have is just so terribly disapointing, and you can't tell me they aren't disapointed in themselves. I gaurantee they look back with this season now complete and realize they let themselves down and could have been much, much better. But, they have a new chance to do something and I'm excited to see what they do, but am glad to finally have the season over with mercifully.

[TopDawg]

We have talent on this team, in my opinion, some of the best talent KS has ever had, with only the 2002 team being clearly more talented, and they didn't live up to expectations by quite a bit.

I don't disagree that we have talent. We've got lots. But we're lacking it in one key area: PG. I take it back, we have talent there, but it's inexperienced/misplaced talent. Sometimes it's kinda similar to having an inexperienced Bomar at QB, sometimes it's more like having Peterson at QB.

[MojoRisen]

Teams can shut us down on D- we are not good enough- we need a legit point guard- look at the freshman from Cincinatti- grant it that program is gone to hell next year- they were able to get a legit point guard that penetrats and dishes- it makes all the diference in the world- you have to be able to get in traffic and still controll the ball.

As for the this team in the NCAA Tourney- I hope we play well- but don't count on it- we have a funk that is more consistent than a well played game and it is a 75% probability that we lay an egg in either the first or 2nd game.

Mostly because someone will shut us down and hold us in the 50s and we are done.

Sorry but this team does have talent- just not Basketball savvy with the exception of Taylor Griffen... and he has been infected by the rest of the team.

[ouradu]

Sorry but this team does have talent- just not Basketball savvy ...
True, but we'd be pretty good in a 3-on-3 street game. This team seems to care more about how scoring looks than just putting the points on the board. How many bad lobs did TE have last night trying to trying to throw an oop to Gray? Just score and quit trying to make it look good.

[MojoRisen]

Practice makes for improvement- and I do have to put that on the coach..

Position and entry pass- and mostly point guard attack- is non existent at times...

[toast]

I don't disagree that we have talent. We've got lots. But we're lacking it in one key area: PG. I take it back, we have talent there, but it's inexperienced/misplaced talent. Sometimes it's kinda similar to having an inexperienced Bomar at QB, sometimes it's more like having Peterson at QB.


TD,

I like what you're saying about the PG. With Drew leaving and our first choices picking other places to play, KS threw the dice on Walker and it blew up in his face. Austin Johnson should have redshirted this year and never seen the court.

What are your thoughts on this - a friend of mine said the other day that KS is a good coach but would have been a great coach in the 40's/50's when they took the air out of the ball? I really didn't have an argument because I could see where KS team's have played tough D (in the past and during some stretches this season), but seem to always have some sort of offensive struggles every year (except for maybe the Final 4 team)/

[oumartin]

cracks me up to see people stand up for sampson.....
seems no matter what the guy doesn't do hes still the best.

[sanantoniosooner]

cracks me up to see people stand up for sampson.....
seems no matter what the guy doesn't do hes still the best.
Maybe it's time to finish scraping that Bury Barry sticker off and replace it with Castrate Calvin.

[oumartin]

I'm not saying to get rid of the guy yet. but people need to admit that he needs to change his style.. I am not a fan of his style of play.

[MojoRisen]

I'm not saying to get rid of the guy yet. but people need to admit that he needs to change his style.. I am not a fan of his style of play.


Bingo people can say what they want about Sampson- but if doesn't win and with his style- I think he needs to be on a shorter rope...

This is boring basketball - and when we loose too Nebish twice- is disgusting basketball.

When will enough be enough for Kelvin lovers- the answer is never-

Personally- I want to see our style change- so we can get NBA caliber basketball players to Come to OU- like Ohio St. is starting to do.

[oumartin]

Personally- I want to see our style change- so we can get NBA caliber basketball players to Come to OU- like Ohio St. is starting to do


this is why I brought this up in a thread comparing Ohio State to Oklahoma.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

**** on the NBA players. how about he just recruit guys that fit his system? his "style" requires a high basketball IQ and an above average energy level. find more ernie abercrombies, more najeras, and short shooting guards.

[MojoRisen]

I hate feeling like a jerk because I find it easy to pick on Sampson... becuase I like his character- and find him to be a likable person- but he is not a great basketball mind...

I am pretty sure- that people even made the argument that kids don't improve in his system... That has to be alarming to kids who really want to learn how to be better basketball players and get to the next level. Not just out hustle everyone. As you see Nebraska just beat us at that.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I am pretty sure- that people even made the argument that kids don't improve in his system... That has to be alarming to kids who really want to learn how to be better basketball players and get to the next level. Not just out hustle everyone. As you see Nebraska just beat us at that.

look i loathe the guy, always have. but you can't objectively say that price, najera, etc. didn't improve in his system. the problem is that he has to find scrappy guys who'll improve on their own...

[MojoRisen]

look i loathe the guy, always have. but you can't objectively say that price, najera, etc. didn't improve in his system. the problem is that he has to find scrappy guys who'll improve on their own...

No I can't objectively say that those two and a few others didn't improve in the system..

Lots of players had not though- and they were more of the raw talent type guys... Not the hustling- human bruise type with a jumper like Holis price! and an Under Privlidge Hispanic kid from Mexico that is a national hero for the people of mexico....

I think the NBA caliber players would be easier to find and coach- than what you speak of!

[MiccoMacey]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to knock Stoops...clearly he's done a great job. I just think it's easier to make it into the BCS than it is to make it to the Final 4 (see 2004 Pitt).

[NickZepplin] No, he isn't a good coach. The 2005 team bears that out. He barely won eight games. He only beat the #5 team in the nation. He recruited Larry Birdine, the biggest bust in the history of OU football, or at least since I've been around it, starting in 1998 when I was in the third grade [/Nick Zepplin]

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think the NBA caliber players would be easier to find and coach- than what you speak of!

i have a theory in college athletics that coaches often fall into a "talent trap" when they get success. they go from looking for players that fit their system to getting uber-athletic guys that they can "make" fit their system. i think this team is a lot more talented than his previous teams, but they lack that tough, blue collar no gambling mentality that made sampson successful. he won because he played physical interior defense (especially on block outs, man they were physical), closed out on shooters, and had a good enough on the ball defender to keep penetration to a minimum. he coupled that with a very simple 3 point shooting offense that relied on getting a ton of shots up by not turning the ball over and some 2nd chance rebounds. it wasn't pretty and it wasn't something "nba guys" wanted to play, but it was effective. humorously, this describes the pistons minus the 3 point shots. so why did he recruit uber athletic guys that don't block out, gamble on the perimeter, and can't close out on shooters? michael neal and bookout are about the only true sampson guys on the floor.

my issue with NBA guys on a sampson coached team has to do with how much ryan humphrey looked up at the stats on the scoreboard. you could just see him calculating whether it was enough to make the jump at the end of the year.

is sampson the best coach that OU can do? uh, no. is he a good coach? yep. does he frustrate me to no end? roger, there niner. would i be sad to see him go? nope

[MojoRisen]

Agreed- very valid points...

[Cam]

And there's a difference between expectations based on the negative and expectations based on the positive...but they're both expectations based on fact.
So what were your expectations in October?

Did you go into this season thinking that a team with 3 Senior starters, one of which was the pre-season POY as voted by I believe the coaches, would be 6-5 in road games?

You've said many times that if we as fans believed the hype, it's more on us. Are you saying that I'm a naive fan for wanting this team to be considered with the elite? Or are you saying I'm a naive fan because I listened to those who are 100 times closer to the program than I am.

And for the record, I've only called one person a sunshine pumper. That individual made it personal with a lot of people.

Program progression is all I'm wanting to see. Right now, I'm just not seeing it.

[Cam]

is sampson the best coach that OU can do? uh, no. is he a good coach? yep. does he frustrate me to no end? roger, there niner. would i be sad to see him go? nope
Same here.

From a character stand point, I would be sad to see him go. He's a good face for the school. From a basketball stand point, change ain't always a bad thing.

[oumartin]

From a character stand point, I would be sad to see him go. He's a good face for the school. From a basketball stand point, change ain't always a bad thing

:eek:
:eek:

[MojoRisen]

CHA CHA CHA CHanges TURN AND FACE THE STRANGE CHANGESES!

[BarryBnds]

I'm not saying to get rid of the guy yet. but people need to admit that he needs to change his style.. I am not a fan of his style of play.

EXACTLY!!!!! This is what I've been preaching all year and get ripped for it. I've always thought he was a good guy but with the performance of this team added to his off the field problems the guy has to figure out what the hell is going on. I'm not saying getting rid of him is the answer but we shouldn't be dealing with the same type of crap 12 years down the road. I'm just scared we'll be stuck with 20 wins and out on the first weekend for the next 8 years before we figure out how to get over the top.

[birddog]

I say bring on Mike Anderson.

[kbsooner]

I have one question? Didn't Sampson bring in the new assistants to upgrade our offense? What happened with that. I'm pretty sure we ran a more comlex O at my high school. I'm getting sick of the stupid double screens for Neal, everyone has caught onto that, the isos as the shot clock winds down. This team should have been a killer inside out squad. I know in that respect the loss of MacKenzie killed us, but it doesn't seem Sampson ever adapts to the skills his players have.

I have been having a debate with friends. I would like some opinions on this... What if Sheldon Williams would have picked OU over Duke, would he had turned out to be an All-Ameerican he is today? I say absolutely not, he would have been another Johnnie Gilbert. Thats the difference between Sampson and the real top coaches, he is a master of his system, he is not a developer of talent.

[oumartin]

I tell you who I really would have liked to have had. John calipari. Dude plays uptempo ball and he has proven twice he can coach college ball.

[Big Red Ron]

To all you Sampson haters....

Don't forget in twelve years Sampson has won or shared an astounding one conference championship.

;)

[oumartin]

yeah, but he won the conference tournament what. 2 times? ;)

[Big Red Ron]

yeah, but he won the conference tournament what. 2 times? ;)Man it's totally closer to four. ;)

[OUmillenium]

Our schedule allowed us to win 20 games- we are not a good team- knock it off already.. Jesus H Christ- Kelvin how could you allow us to SUCK THIS BAD with a team this highly rated.
Were done- stick a fork in us...


Well said...

:eddie: (BURRRRRRRP!)

[OUmillenium]

Maybe it's time to finish scraping that Bury Barry sticker off and replace it with Castrate Calvin.

I sort of prefer "Kan Kelvin":D

not really, he should not be fired. He should learn to cut loose a fast break once in a while to augment our pathetic half-court offense.

[MojoRisen]

One of the post says Kelvin is thinking about leaving... That would make a transition sooo good for the University and other potential TOP candidates.

Calapari- is an awesome coach- no doubt he wouldve been a good one- I think there are others out there hopefully if Kelvin moves on we are able to land a smart ambitious coach!

[oumartin]

Kelvin would make a great NBA coach.
er. oh I'm sorry

They can play zone up there too. Nevermind

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

calapari is pretty loose with the rules though

[MojoRisen]

What is/was his deal with the rules? Was it more blatent than Sampson calling recruits himself? Just curious...

[CtheB]

What is/was his deal with the rules? Was it more blatent than Sampson calling recruits himself? Just curious...

What I know is that Calipari had UMass at the brink of excellence at one time. And if he cheated to do it, we don't want any part of him. That being said, I think it says alot for a coach who cheats and still doesn't win. Sounds a lot like something that would happen within the Ag football program.

[MojoRisen]

Did he cheat? I remember that team- they were 6 deep- so he could not have cheated that bad- Marcus Camby & Kellog and a few other really solid players- they ran out of gas deep in the tourney..

[MojoRisen]

Maybe it was Nova- they were loaded- Kerry Kittles- I am curious of what he was investigated for... Jim Herric or something like that is noo good.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

calapari paid camby and several other recruits to sign with umass. luckily for umass and him, that was during one of the NCAAs "pat them on the butt and tell you to do better next time" phases. had it been at OU under tubbs or currently, we'd be looking at baylor like sanctions.