Truer Words Were Never Spoken (Jimmy Carter) [Archive]

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 01:05 AM

Former President Jimmy Carter criticized the war in Iraq on Wednesday, urging a troop drawdown as the United States enters its fourth year of conflict in Iraq.

"It was a completely unnecessary war. It was an unjust war," said Carter, the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize winner. "It was initiated on the basis of false pretenses. All of those are true, but we can't just pre-emptively withdraw."

He urged the Bush administration to bring home as many troops as possible within the next 12 months.

usmc-sooner

3/9/2006, 01:06 AM

has he said anything about the troops in Bosnia?

I wonder if he says much about how he did his best to F this country up?

SoonerBorn68

3/9/2006, 01:14 AM

Oh, I thought Jimmah might have called himself an idiot.

Nevermind, nothing to see here.

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 01:17 AM

Oh, I thought Jimmah might have called himself an idiot.

Nevermind, nothing to see here.

Right, let's just stay there forever. We've accomplished SO MUCH in the last three years.

SoonerBorn68

3/9/2006, 01:18 AM

If Jimmah told you to jump in the lake, would you? ;)

usmc-sooner

3/9/2006, 01:21 AM

holy crap we have Jimmy Carter fan

I don't imagine that he actually lived through the Carter administration but hey what the heck.

usmc-sooner

3/9/2006, 01:30 AM

ah yeah

A President who was totally punked by the mid east

remember all the good times and people going nuts while waiting 3 hours just to put gas in there car. Man where have the good times gone.

I guess to be a good President you gotta do more than do interviews for playboy.

SoonerBorn68

3/9/2006, 01:33 AM

I just remember the 20+ percent inflation and the country getting bitch slapped by a bunch of apprentice terrorists...but ya know, whatever floats your boat.

Sooner Born Sooner Bred

3/9/2006, 01:34 AM

The waiting in lines for gas was during Nixon/Ford

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 01:35 AM

At least the gas wasn't more than $2 a gallon. What good times we're having now.

I would rate Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina as a disaster and equal to Carter's failure in Iran.

But enough about Carter. Do you think that the war in Iraq is a success? How long do we stay in that country?

PhxSooner

3/9/2006, 01:37 AM

Well, you have to be impressed by a president who presided over the first occurance of stagflation in an american economy.:rolleyes:

soonerscuba

3/9/2006, 01:37 AM

I think there comes a point in any man's life where he just says "**** it, I'm old and am going to do whatever the hell I feel like". Jimmy Carter has clearly passed this point, I'm sure any day now we will catch him accidentally falling on a waitress buxom and ****ting in his front yard.

PhxSooner

3/9/2006, 01:39 AM

I think he passed that point when he's upset that the current administration did the opposite of what he promised to other countries.

soonerhubs

3/9/2006, 01:43 AM

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 01:44 AM

Argue with this one:
On October 14, 1978 President Carter signed into law a bill that legalized the homebrewing of beer and wine.

PhxSooner

3/9/2006, 01:45 AM

That was just so the country could forget what a disaster he was.;)

soonerhubs

3/9/2006, 01:46 AM

Argue with this one:
On October 14, 1978 President Carter signed into law a bill that legalized the homebrewing of beer and wine.
Well, partial redemption then.

soonerscuba

3/9/2006, 01:56 AM

So what do any Logically minded people think would happen if we pulled out right now?

Honestly? Should we just abandon this country after we've done so much to help them?

I'll be the first to admit Bush was naive to think he could resolve differences in Muslim factions that have existed for centuries, but it's far too easy to second guess the man who has to guess first. At least Bush acted rather than sat with his thumbs up his *** while the Iranians went even more radical

The Iraqis would descend into the civil war (hey, wait a minute), the various elements would battle each other until a power consolidated into a single group, which would then brutally reign over the rest of them, much like it has done for the entirety of it's existence.

Help is a verrrrry subjective word when it comes to Iraq.

Good things we got in there and the Iranians didn't go bat**** crazy, much like they have done throughout most of their existence. Hey, wait a minute.

I think the war was a bad idea because history says it is a bad idea on a variety of fronts. For starters, empire goes to the mid-east to die, always has, always will. Suicide statesmanship ends in disaster about 99% of the time, deciding you are going to overthrow a regime in the mid-east, establish a democracy, destabilize the region, and hope everything works out would fall under the umbrella of suicide statesmanship.

Jimminy Crimson

3/9/2006, 01:58 AM

Jimmy Carter is the most bitter man in the known world.

Go build a house or grow peanuts or something.

PhxSooner

3/9/2006, 02:01 AM

Jimmy Carter is the most bitter man in the known world.

Go build a house or grow peanuts or something.
Amen.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

3/9/2006, 02:06 AM

strange, i was noticing that the older our former presidents get, the more they all look alike.

soonerhubs

3/9/2006, 02:06 AM

The Iraqis would descend into the civil war (hey, wait a minute), the various elements would battle each other until a power consolidated into a single group, which would then brutally reign over the rest of them, much like it has done for the entirety of it's existence.

Help is a verrrrry subjective word when it comes to Iraq.

Good things we got in there and the Iranians didn't go bat**** crazy, much like they have done throughout most of their existence. Hey, wait a minute.

I think the war was a bad idea because history says it is a bad idea on a variety of fronts. For starters, empire goes to the mid-east to die, always has, always will. Suicide statesmanship ends in disaster about 99% of the time, deciding you are going to overthrow a regime in the mid-east, establish a democracy, destabilize the region, and hope everything works out would fall under the umbrella of suicide statesmanship.

Very well put, and I think I agree. Perhaps Bush's staff got a little too trigger happy, looking for a target. I still think Carter's a tool though.

SoonerBorn68

3/9/2006, 02:21 AM

Argue with this one:
On October 14, 1978 President Carter signed into law a bill that legalized the homebrewing of beer and wine.

Hooray! Now to get drunk and post bad things about his worthless ***.

jk the sooner fan

3/9/2006, 07:02 AM

blaming gas prices on the president is akin to blaming your neighbors farts on your other neighbors dog

bush has as much to do with $2 gas as i do.....

OUinFLA

3/9/2006, 07:09 AM

bush has as much to do with $2 gas as i do.....

then, would you get off your butt and do something to bring the prices down!

Sooner in Tampa

3/9/2006, 07:11 AM

Argue with this one:
On October 14, 1978 President Carter signed into law a bill that legalized the homebrewing of beer and wine.The only reason he did that was to benefit his drunken *** brother.

Nevertheless...it was the ONLY good thing he did.

AlbqSooner

3/9/2006, 08:09 AM

Jimmy Carter - the President who brought you 90% tax brackets.

1stTimeCaller

3/9/2006, 08:18 AM

At least the gas wasn't more than $2 a gallon. What good times we're having now.

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/InfAdjGas1918_2005.gif

:rolleyes:

Okieflyer

3/9/2006, 08:22 AM

JD must not have lived through the Carter Administration. No offense, but that was the worst president in the last 50 years at least. I would even put Nixon ahead of him.

jrsooner

3/9/2006, 08:54 AM

At least the gas wasn't more than $2 a gallon.And Comics were just $0.35 instead of $2.99 an issue, guess we can blame that on Bush too, since Carter must have kept those prices down. :P

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 09:11 AM

Jimmy wants to cut n run?

Shocked. Totally shocked by this.

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 09:14 AM

The waiting in lines for gas was during Nixon/Ford
Actually, it happened in 1979 as well.

The one in 1973 happened because of the Yom Kippur war.

The one in 1979 happened because Jimmuh was a horrid president, and though price controls were a good idea during an energy shortage.

Sooner24

3/9/2006, 09:19 AM

Don't forget the "killer rabbit" that attacked him in his boat. :D

Hatfield

3/9/2006, 09:19 AM

Jimmy wants to cut n run?

Shocked. Totally shocked by this.

so saying while we need to withdraw as many as possible we can't just pre-emptively withdraw them all means cut and run to you?

did you even read the quote?

Okla-homey

3/9/2006, 09:27 AM

Remember the DESERT ONE Iran hostage rescue fiasco during the Carter years? After being briefed on the original concept which involved going downtown after preparatory airstrikes, Carter insisted the whole thing go down with minimal or no loss of Iranian life.

A lot of good American men died as a result and the hostages remained in captivity.

The guy was the worst president of the twentieth century, bar none.

VeeJay

3/9/2006, 09:29 AM

Forget Jimmah for a second (obviously us who refer to him as "Jimmah", or some similar spelling, don't like him that much) - what about the former First Lady, Rosslyn?

Man...talk about a bitter old broad. I'll bet Miss Lillian - rest her soul- did everything in her power to keep that vixen away from Lil' Jimmeh.

OU4LIFE

3/9/2006, 09:32 AM

That was just so the country could forget what a disaster he was.;)

actually, it was for his brother. :D

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 09:50 AM

so saying while we need to withdraw as many as possible we can't just pre-emptively withdraw them all means cut and run to you?

did you even read the quote?

Oh please, he wants us out of Iraq and everyone knows it. Why else would he say typical BS like "It was a completely unnecessary war. It was an unjust war" or "It was initiated on the basis of false pretenses"?

Yes, I did read the quote. Also read the story about it.

His comments came at a news conference before a building dedication at the University of Washington.

Another shocker there.

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 09:54 AM

The guy was the worst president of the twentieth century, bar none.

Looks like most people agreed at the time with that assessment.

http://www.polidata.org/maps/st80pabr.gif

jeremy885

3/9/2006, 09:57 AM

Looks like most people agreed at the time with that assessment.

http://www.polidata.org/maps/st80pabr.gif

At least he won his home state in the election. Something Gore couldn't do. Still bitter from 2000.

Hatfield

3/9/2006, 09:57 AM

Octavian

3/9/2006, 10:03 AM

...he wants us out of Iraq and everyone knows it. Why else would he say typical BS like "It was a completely unnecessary war. It was an unjust war" or "It was initiated on the basis of false pretenses"?

b/c it's not BS to him.

He thinks (and has said so since before it started) it was completely unnecessary. He thinks it was unjust. He thinks it was based on false pretenses.

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 10:06 AM

[QUOTE=OklahomaTuba]Oh please, he wants us out of Iraq and everyone knows it. Why else would he say typical BS like "It was a completely unnecessary war. It was an unjust war" or "It was initiated on the basis of false pretenses"?

Yes, I did read the quote. Also read the story about it.QUOTE]

yes he did say that...then if you read just a little farther....you will see he said but even with all that we can't cut and run.

plenty of other stuff to rail on him for, no need to blindly and ignorantly misrepresent what he said.

That's fine if you get that from him, but I do not, even with the qualifier he threw into that quote. Call me cynical, but I have a hard time believing that we can just withdraw "as many as possible" and not just say bring them all home now. Having a smaller force when AQ is trying to instigate a civil war doesn't really make a lick of sense.

I'd rather have MORE troops and MORE assets over there to hedge against Iran myself, while fighting AQ.

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 10:16 AM

b/c it's not BS to him.

He thinks (and has said so since before it started) it was completely unnecessary. He thinks it was unjust. He thinks it was based on false pretenses.

Carters thinking has always been his problem.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 10:37 AM

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 10:40 AM

At least the gas wasn't more than $2 a gallon. What good times we're having now.

You know what inflation is, right?

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 10:45 AM

holy crap we have Jimmy Carter fan

You don't have to be a fan of somebody to agree with something they said. Some people are capable of evaluating statements and actions without personal feelings and ideologies getting in the way. Just sayin'.

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 10:47 AM

Jimmah is an ******* and should shut his f'ing mouth! In my frickin' Georgian Opinion!!!

He was the worst governor ever!

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 10:47 AM

So what did Jimmah say that was so profound?

"The war was unjust, but we can't leave right now, but we should get out."

Sounds like a deep thought from Jack Handy.

Hatfield

3/9/2006, 10:52 AM

You don't have to be a fan of somebody to agree with something they said. Some people are capable of evaluating statements and actions without personal feelings and ideologies getting in the way. Just sayin'.

those people hate freedom, america, puppies, and logic.

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 10:53 AM

I just remember the 20+ percent inflation and the country getting bitch slapped by a bunch of apprentice terrorists...but ya know, whatever floats your boat.

You can thank Jimmah for that. Funny how Reagan gets elected and the hostages come home. THey knew what would happen shortly if they didn't release them...Yeah, Jimmah did nothing while the U.S. had the worst economy since the Depression.

Oh, go ask Jimmah what to do about Iran, oh wait, just go directly to Amy, because you know he'll ask her advice about "nuculear" power...

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 10:53 AM

So what did Jimmah say that was so profound?

Is that for me?

I didn't even read what he said, but it's clear that this thread is not about what he said but who he is. And that's the problem with ****ing politics.

My guy can do no wrong, your guy can do no right, blah blah blah.

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 10:57 AM

Is that for me?

I didn't even read what he said, but it's clear that this thread is not about what he said but who he is. And that's the problem with ****ing politics.

My guy can do no wrong, your guy can do no right, blah blah blah.

If you didn't even read what he said then why are you defending your guy? ;)

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 10:58 AM

You can thank Jimmah for that. Funny how Reagan gets elected and the hostages come home. THey knew what would happen shortly if they didn't release them...Yeah, Jimmah did nothing while the U.S. had the worst economy since the Depression.

Oh, go ask Jimmah what to do about Iran, oh wait, just go directly to Amy, because you know he'll ask her advice about "nuculear" power...

Jimmah was a nuke officer in the Navy, that's probably the one area that he does have expertise in, well that and peanuts.

picasso

3/9/2006, 10:59 AM

I have a question. Has Jimmy done anything at all to support our war on terrorism or has he just been critical of the Bush administration?
I mean, it's a well known fact that we're in the middle of a war. And not just in Iraq.

I'm surpised he's not advising those coutries who are trying to negotiate for hostages with insurgents.

soonerscuba

3/9/2006, 11:00 AM

THey knew what would happen shortly if they didn't release them...

They would get a fabulous array of weaponry from him, or if he was to senile to be president, his underlings?

Anybody who tries to say that Reagan was awesome at mid-east policy is well, not very bright. That said, nobody is good a mid-east policy, not even Arabs.

slickdawg

3/9/2006, 11:00 AM

Jimmy was a nuclear engineer. Something makes me envision his work
there similar to Homer Simpson.

slickdawg

3/9/2006, 11:01 AM

They would get a fabulous array of weaponry from him, or if he was to senile to be president, his underlings?

Anybody who tries to say that Reagan was awesome at mid-east policy is well, not very bright. That said, nobody is good a mid-east policy, not even Arabs.

It's impossible to have policy with a bunch of people that would blow themselves up to make a point.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 11:02 AM

b/c it's not BS to him.

He thinks (and has said so since before it started) it was completely unnecessary. He thinks it was unjust. He thinks it was based on false pretenses.And...it's been demonstrated repetitively that he don't think too good.:O

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 11:10 AM

Jimmah was a nuke officer in the Navy, that's probably the one area that he does have expertise in, well that and peanuts.

Apparently you don't remember the Presidential debates when he said he would ask Amy her opinion about nuculear power.

And yeah, I know he was a nuke power officer. Ryckover probably is turning in his grave about accepting Carter into the program...

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 11:11 AM

They would get a fabulous array of weaponry from him, or if he was to senile to be president, his underlings?

Anybody who tries to say that Reagan was awesome at mid-east policy is well, not very bright. That said, nobody is good a mid-east policy, not even Arabs.

I never said Reagan was awesome at mideast diplomacy, just that Iran knew what would be coming their way if they didn't release the hostages. Sometime people forget the only thing most arabs understand is the sword and force...

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 11:16 AM

Well, the Republican right-wing ignorance on this board is stunning. After three years in Iraq, WWII only took 4, we are mired in a quagmire. I opposed this war from the beginning. In the first place, Iraq was not a real threat to us and had little to do with 9/11. In the second place, the war in Iraq has only made the situation in the Middle East worse. In the third place, it is a war we cannot afford in a place where we cannot win.

How long are you willing to stay there and keep total chaos from happening? What happened to Mission Accomplished? Where are the WMDs?

Face facts sports fans, it was a bad idea to go in and the war is a disaster. Iraq is not stable now and has little prospect of being stable in the near future. There may not have been terrorists in Iraq before, but there are certainly terrorists there now.

And by the way, Jimmy Carter has served this country well in the military and has made a personal commitment to help the poor and work for peace. He is a true Christian gentleman and won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002. He is not perfect, but I respect and admire his values and his efforts to make the world a more peaceful place in which to live.

TopDawg

3/9/2006, 11:20 AM

Jimmy Carter is the most bitter man in the known world.

Let me introduce you to OklahomaTuba.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 11:23 AM

I mean, it's a well known fact that we're in the middle of a war. And not just in Iraq.

We're at war for the children! The government knows what's best for you! Do not question the government!

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 11:23 AM

In the meantime, back at the ranch:

WASHINGTON - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday urged quick passage of a $91 billion spending bill that includes money to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying that despite a surge in sectarian violence in Iraq, the process of creating a stable government is proceeding satisfactorily.

Appearing with Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Rice said most Iraqis are convinced that their hopes for a stable and secure nation will succeed despite the persistent insurgency.

"They still face a very determined enemy, an enemy that would like to see that political process halted so that Iraq might devolve into chaos and conflict," she said.

Sure, spend it! Stability is only another $65 billion away!

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 11:27 AM

Well, the Republican right-wing ignorance on this board is stunning.
duhhhh, I so stoopid and igorant...I dont no nuthin...

After three years in Iraq, WWII only took 4, we are mired in a quagmire. I opposed this war from the beginning. In the first place, Iraq was not a real threat to us and had little to do with 9/11. In the second place, the war in Iraq has only made the situation in the Middle East worse. In the third place, it is a war we cannot afford in a place where we cannot win.

Not sure how this will play out, Iraq has been destabilized, but the terroists are concentrating on Iraq and not attacking America. I think the opportuntiy to bring a true democray into the mid-east is worth it...

How long are you willing to stay there and keep total chaos from happening? What happened to Mission Accomplished?
How long were we in Germany, 40+ years? I suspect we will have troops there for a while.

Where are the WMDs? In Syria.

Face facts sports fans, it was a bad idea to go in and the war is a disaster. Iraq is not stable now and has little prospect of being stable in the near future. There may not have been terrorists in Iraq before, but there are certainly terrorists there now. I so disagree with you. There were terrorists there before, they were being trained.

And by the way, Jimmy Carter has served this country well in the military and has made a personal commitment to help the poor and work for peace. He is a true Christian gentleman and won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002. He is not perfect, but I respect and admire his values and his efforts to make the world a more peaceful place in which to live. He should stick to building homes and keep his damn mouth shut. The Nobel Peace prize was a joke, obviously you don't get it for outcomes, just platitudes...
And as I said before he was a LOUSY governor. Took the next administration 2 terms to fix his mess...

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 11:34 AM

WWII only took 4

More like six.

In the first place, Iraq was not a real threat to us and had little to do with 9/11.

Why do you hate the Iraqis?

In the second place, the war in Iraq has only made the situation in the Middle East worse.

Has it?

Saddam's not around anymore. That has to count for something. All the other questionable governments in the neighborhood are quaking in their camel-skin boots, hoping to Allah that Iraq does fail or else they're in trouble, too. That has to count for something.

In the third place, it is a war we cannot afford in a place where we cannot win.

When can we afford a war? That's like saying "this was the worse possible time for to have a car accident", like there's a good time to have a car accident. We won the war in Iraq--Sadaam is gone. Mission accomplished. The "win the peace" cliche is trite, but that's the phase we're in now.

TopDawg

3/9/2006, 11:38 AM

And as I said before he was a LOUSY governor. Took the next administration 2 terms to fix his mess...

Wait, are we talking about Bush now?

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 11:41 AM

Wait, are we talking about Bush now?

Actually, Bush was a pretty good governor. My taxes were decreased and he ran the state fairly well. Plus, everyone in Texas knows the governor don't do too much, it is the Lt. Gov. that has all the power here...

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 11:42 AM

but the terroists are concentrating on Iraq and not attacking America.

Okay, I'm not buying this. It's not like there's a single terrorist army out there that can only fight one battle at a time. I doubt that Iraq has had much if anything do with preventing domestic terrorism. There have been several major terrorist incidents around the world since the war started, just not in the US.

I think the opportuntiy to bring a true democray into the mid-east is worth it...

Iran is probably a better opportunity, but we didn't have as much of a reason to invade them.

TopDawg

3/9/2006, 11:46 AM

Actually, Bush was a pretty good governor. My taxes were decreased and he ran the state fairly well. Plus, everyone in Texas knows the governor don't do too much, it is the Lt. Gov. that has all the power here...

Well I know there are people in Texas trying to fix the mess he left, so I just figured we'd use the same criteria you were using for Carter.

TopDawg

3/9/2006, 11:49 AM

Iran is probably a better opportunity, but we didn't have as much of a reason to invade them.

Heh. Mathematically, that statement would look like this:

.00000000000000000000000001 < .00000000000000000000000002

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 11:50 AM

Well I know there are people in Texas trying to fix the mess he left, so I just figured we'd use the same criteria you were using for Carter.

What mess do you speak of?

In Georgia, the taxes were jacked up sky high (from previous administrations). The laws regarding social actions were vastly increased to the point the state couldn't afford them and they had to be withdrawn by the following administration.

picasso

3/9/2006, 11:51 AM

regardless of my political affiliation, I'd never hitch a ride on the loser train that is Jimmy Carter.

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 11:52 AM

Why do you hate the Iraqis?

I don't remember saying I hate the Iraqis. For what it is worth, I did live under the Carter administration and I remember that under the Reagan administration we actually supported Saddam.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Soon thereafter, Donald Rumsfeld (who had served in various positions in the Nixon and Ford administrations, including as President Ford's defense secretary, and at this time headed the multinational pharmaceutical company G.D. Searle & Co.) was dispatched to the Middle East as a presidential envoy. His December 1983 tour of regional capitals included Baghdad, where he was to establish "direct contact between an envoy of President Reagan and President Saddam Hussein," while emphasizing "his close relationship" with the president [Document 28]. Rumsfeld met with Saddam, and the two discussed regional issues of mutual interest, shared enmity toward Iran and Syria, and the U.S.'s efforts to find alternative routes to transport Iraq's oil; its facilities in the Persian Gulf had been shut down by Iran, and Iran's ally, Syria, had cut off a pipeline that transported Iraqi oil through its territory. Rumsfeld made no reference to chemical weapons, according to detailed notes on the meeting [Document 31].

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 11:54 AM

Well I know there are people in Texas trying to fix the mess he left

Which mess? Texas prospered during the late 90's, as did most states not named "Oklahoma". Now, his education reforms (the beginning of NCLB) have out turned out to be not so great, but that's as much the fault of administrators pressuring teachers to teach the test as anything else.

I was excited to vote for Bush in 2000, because based on his track record as governor he really did seem to be a moderate. So what the hell happened? :mad:

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 11:59 AM

I don't remember saying I hate the Iraqis.

But apparently you wanted them to continue living under the hell that was Saddam's regime, made even worse by ineffectual sanctions. If it's okay to fight oppression and genocide in Yugoslavia and Africa why not Iraq?

Or maybe you're an isolationist and don't think we should get involved in any of those places? I can't say I disagree. Bush's 2000 campaign pledge to stay away from "nation building" sounded pretty good to me.

Taxman71

3/9/2006, 12:05 PM

The only person who liked the Carter administration was Tony Orlando due to the massive sales of "Tie A Yellow Ribbon" during Carter's 444 day nap.

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 12:07 PM

OUthunder

3/9/2006, 12:17 PM

He has little room to talk. The way he handled the Iran hostage situation during his term was embarassing for this country!

In all reality I don't agree with Bush on 90% of his decisions but Carter has NO room to talk. I remember waiting an hour in line for gas with my mom when he was president and inflation under his watch was pretty bad too if memory serves me correctly.

People in glass houses...

picasso

3/9/2006, 12:18 PM

I have no Saddam love, but we can't go to war with every dictator in the world. Isn't it ironic that the same guys, Rumsfeld, who were Saddam's buddies in the 1980s led us to war against the evil Saddam in 2003?

I would have concentrated on getting Osama rather than Saddam.
we all know the reasons for buddying up with Saddam in the 80's jd. try to come up with something a little more novel will you?

It's a fact Saddam had WMD, it's also a fact that he was supporting terrorism, there were also cells getting ricin from Iraq and planning on using them in the US. Are you saying you'd be willing to ignore intelligence from all of our allies concerning Iraq in a post 9/11 world?

Taxman71

3/9/2006, 12:25 PM

This is problem with being proactive versus reactive. There is always a percentage of people who think nothing would have happened anyway and that the preventative measures were unnecessary. Ironically, those same people then criticize when preventative measures are not taken and tragedy results (9/11 & Katrina). So which is it? Nip it in the bud and be called a bully or lick your wounds after the fact so that people will [SallyField]like you[\SallyField]?

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 12:26 PM

Osama doesn't really approve of the way Bush is running the GWOT. What more evidence do you need to show that it is being at least somewhat effective?

picasso

3/9/2006, 12:28 PM

Osama doesn't really approve of the way Bush is running the GWOT. What more evidence do you need to show that it is being at least somewhat effective?
he also called for a truce did he not? we also have not been attacked inside the continental US have we not? just curious.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 12:32 PM

I have no Saddam love, but we can't go to war with every dictator in the world.

So you're an isolationist? I can respect that. I have a problem with the people who called out Bush for not intervening in Darfur, or Rwanda, or Tibet, or whatever ****hole du jour, but didn't give a damn that the Iraqis were in the same boat.

Isn't it ironic that the same guys, Rumsfeld, who were Saddam's buddies in the 1980s led us to war against the evil Saddam in 2003?

Ironic yes, but do you not realize that circumstances can change over time?

I would have concentrated on getting Osama rather than Saddam.

We couldn't do both? And who cares if we actually have him or not? His leadership has been seriously disrupted. Actually catching him might give people warm fuzzies, but it won't do much practical good. What the hell do you do with him? Put him in prison? Good luck securing that facility. Execute him and turn him into a martyr?

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 12:33 PM

Who stole klatt's password?

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 12:35 PM

we also have not been attacked inside the continental US have we not?

Hopefully the War on Terror is not just about protecting our own asses at the expense of everybody else. There have been many major terrorist incidents around the world since 9/11, so let's not pat ourselves on the back too hard.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 12:36 PM

Who stole klatt's password?

What do you mean?

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 12:38 PM

Hopefully the War on Terror is not just about protecting our own asses at the expense of everybody else. There have been many major terrorist incidents around the world since 9/11, so let's not pat ourselves on the back too hard.

That's all part of Rumsfeld's evil plan to get Europe to pull their heads out and get in the game.

;)

SoonerProphet

3/9/2006, 12:39 PM

Are we debating this again.

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 12:41 PM

Are we debating this again.

I think it's been a least a week, we're overdue.

TheHumanAlphabet

3/9/2006, 01:14 PM

What, the Gulf war and Bush or Jimmah Cahtah?

picasso

3/9/2006, 01:17 PM

SoonerProphet

3/9/2006, 01:21 PM

pretty sure carter was a failure, putting human rights and democracy as the center piece of fp brought us an Islamic Republic,(the same might be said for the current idiot in chief). The Iraq debate is ongoing, nobody is going to change their minds on the whole affair.

soonerscuba

3/9/2006, 01:24 PM

Hopefully the War on Terror is not just about protecting our own asses at the expense of everybody else.

To put it bluntly, **** the rest of the world. I am a firm believer in American exceptionalism, the only time I agree with military force is to stop genocide or to engage a nation that is at direct odds with out national security (i.e. Afghanistan and Iran). If a country wants to be safe from terrorism, get your own damn security.

Not that I advocate this, but since some have stated that America has not had another terrorist attack Bush's policy is working, what about the fact that since Spain has withdrawn from Iraq they have not had another terrorist attack? What do you credit their security to?

Taxman71

3/9/2006, 01:48 PM

There is no need to attack someone who is already bending over for you.

Octavian

3/9/2006, 02:20 PM

Actually, Bush was a pretty good governor. My taxes were decreased....

just b/c your taxes go down doesn't mean the government is being ran efficiently or your leaders are doing a good job.

I realize that Santa Claus politicians are very popular but that doesn't make them "good" leaders who are looking out for the best interests of the country or the future of the country.

Politicians who promise you money before an election if you vote for them are essentially doing what?

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 02:23 PM

Politicians who promise you money before an election if you vote for them are essentially doing what?

Campaigning?

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 02:25 PM

To put it bluntly, **** the rest of the world. I am a firm believer in American exceptionalism, the only time I agree with military force is to stop genocide or to engage a nation that is at direct odds with out national security (i.e. Afghanistan and Iran). If a country wants to be safe from terrorism, get your own damn security.

How do you decide what's genocide? Is there a number limit? We'll spot you the slaughter of the first million people, but do one more and you're asking for it.

Not that I advocate this, but since some have stated that America has not had another terrorist attack Bush's policy is working, what about the fact that since Spain has withdrawn from Iraq they have not had another terrorist attack? What do you credit their security to?

We can't know what effect Bush's policy has had on terrorism. The government might have some idea, but we're not privy to everything they know. Al Queda may have shot their wad on 9/11 and couldn't have mounted a major attack on us regardless of what we did.

In capitulating to terrorists Spain might have done themselves a favor, but they might as well have given the finger to the rest of the world. Bowing down didn't satisfy the terrorists, it only emboldened them: If it worked in Spain it might work someplace else.

But did Spain really gain anything in the long run? Do you really think all the terrorists want is for Iraq to be left alone? Bull****. These people aren't like the IRA who have a specific political goal in mind. They're fanatics. There god is better than your god, and they're not going to stop until you agree with them or you're dead. Spain may be off the hook temporarily, but it's still full of Christians and other infidels that need convertin' or killin'.

Octavian

3/9/2006, 02:34 PM

Campaigning?

ha...how bout "Politicians who offer you a check in the mail if you'll vote for them...?" ;)

Octavian

3/9/2006, 02:35 PM

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 02:35 PM

These people aren't like the IRA who have a specific political goal in mind. They're fanatics. There god is better than your god, and they're not going to stop until you agree with them or you're dead.

You're right, they are fanatics. And the individual foot soldiers carrying bombs may be religious fanatics, but I think their handlers, financiers, and brains are only in it for the power.

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 02:36 PM

ha...how bout "Politicians who offer you a check in the mail if you'll vote for them...?" ;)

You just described every politician. The check is either in the form of a tax cut or welfare, you choose.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 02:40 PM

I think their handlers, financiers, and brains are only in it for the power.

You're right, which is what makes it even worse. Many if not most of the fanatic foot soldiers weren't fanatics until they became brainwashed. Just like with most organizations, the best way to stop terrorism is to cut off the head (and the funding). We can play whack-a-mole and shoot every suicide bomber that pops up in Iraq or Afgnistan or everywher else, but that's not going to end anything.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 02:43 PM

You just described every politician. The check is either in the form of a tax cut or welfare, you choose.

Keeping in mind that the tax cut is usually your money while the welfare is somebody else's....

soonerscuba

3/9/2006, 02:44 PM

I don't believe that the insurgency is choc to the brim of religious fanatics. Sure, there are plenty, but I figure the majority of them are simply fighting an a) occupation of Iraq, or b) the Great Satan in their back yard, that otherwise would have been regulated to a life of dealing in the camel trade, eating nasty food, and nailing their nasty wives.

I would love to see a politician run on ramping up welfare, tax cuts and welfare are apples and giraffes, no man is dumb enough to run on a "it's da first a da monf" platform.

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 02:45 PM

Keeping in mind that the tax cut is usually your money while the welfare is somebody else's....

Yep, that's why I likes me some tax cuts.

SoonerProphet

3/9/2006, 02:47 PM

How much did hijacking a couple planes and crashing them into a building cost again. Don't know if I am a firm believer in the drive alone driving with bin laden concept.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 02:50 PM

Keeping in mind that the tax cut is usually your money while the welfare is somebody else's....You'de better cut out that kind of talk. People will accuse you of being a right-wing whacko.:P

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 02:55 PM

You'de better cut out that kind of talk. People will accuse you of being a right-wing whacko.:P

If Tuba thinks I'm a Communist and Hatfield thinks I'm a Nazi I'm probably right where I need to be.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 02:57 PM

How much did hijacking a couple planes and crashing them into a building cost again. Don't know if I am a firm believer in the drive alone driving with bin laden concept.

:confused:

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 02:57 PM

If Tuba thinks I'm a Communist and Hatfield thinks I'm a Nazi I'm probably right where I need to be.

In the middle of a Tuba/Hatfield sammich? Whatever gets you going I guess. ;)

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 02:58 PM

:confused:

I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 02:58 PM

If Tuba thinks I'm a Communist and Hatfield thinks I'm a Nazi I'm probably right where I need to be.Nah, you need to get where Tuba quits calling you a communist.:)

SoonerProphet

3/9/2006, 03:02 PM

:confused:

Thought you were talking about funding being a key driver behind terrorism. If not, just ignore me.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 03:02 PM

In the middle of a Tuba/Hatfield sammich? Whatever gets you going I guess. ;)

Like I said yesterday, any SF thread will eventually go gay if it stays on the front page long enough. :D

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 03:04 PM

Like I said yesterday, any SF thread will eventually go gay if it stays on the front page long enough. :D

Well, you started it in this one. :)

Harry Beanbag

3/9/2006, 03:06 PM

Thought you were talking about funding being a key driver behind terrorism. If not, just ignore me.

I think we were confused about WTH your second sentence meant. It doesn't look quite right.

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 03:08 PM

Thought you were talking about funding being a key driver behind terrorism. If not, just ignore me.

Yes I was, but I think you were missing some punctuation or something in that second sentence.

I imagine the 9/11 operation cost quite a bit of money. The flight training alone for the four pilots would be ~$20,000 if they all had Private Pilot certificates. Plus, they were living in the US for a long time before the attacks. There were multiple reconaissance trips to scope out the airline flights beforehand. You've got to get the rest of the hijackers to the US. And so on.

SoonerProphet

3/9/2006, 03:15 PM

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 03:17 PM

I don't doubt that it cost a substantial amount of funds, but couple hundred thou ain't breaking the bank. Just not sold on the correlation between funds and terrorism, afterall, during the 90's the Sudan, Pakistan, and Afghanistan were the chief state sponsors...not wealthy emirates.

But Bin Laden was involved in these places, and he's got a lot of jack independent of his family (who supposedly have disowned him).

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 03:19 PM

Nah, you need to get where Tuba quits calling you a communist.:)

Just for the record, I've never called him a commie. I don't even consider him a lib. :D

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 03:25 PM

Just for the record, I've never called him a commie. I don't even consider him a lib. :DHe said you "think of" him as a commie. Agreed he's certainly not as lib/dim as some of our posters.

C&CDean

3/9/2006, 03:27 PM

Without reading the whole thread, let me just make this comment:

James Carter was the worst president in my lifetime. Ike was in office when I was born - for perspective. He was/is a lily-livered, cowardly, back-stabbing no account Georgia peanut-****ing son-of-a-worthless whore. He damn near single-handedly destroyed the U.S. military, and for further perspective, I admire Bill Clinton, and the job he did much more than I admire Carter (and I think Bill Clinton is a worthless POS).

James needs to shut his crooked-toothed cockhole and go lock himself in a cell, blindfolded, and have people beat him for the next 444 days. **** him.

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 03:28 PM

Nah, I think he is "progressive" certainly, but not nearly as "progressive" as, say, comrad al-imjebus. ;)

JohnnyMack

3/9/2006, 03:29 PM

:dean:, can you please not sugar coat it?

Thanks.

C&CDean

3/9/2006, 03:30 PM

:dean:, can you please not sugar coat it?

Thanks.

Dude, I did.

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 03:36 PM

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 03:46 PM

Nah, I think he is "progressive" certainly, but not nearly as "progressive" as, say, comrad al-imjebus. ;)

I can live with that.

OKC Sooner

3/9/2006, 03:48 PM

Actually, Bush was a pretty good governor. My taxes were decreased and he ran the state fairly well. Plus, everyone in Texas knows the governor don't do too much, it is the Lt. Gov. that has all the power here...
Kinky Friedman for Governor... How Hard Can It Be? :texan:

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 04:44 PM

Nah, I think he is "progressive" certainly. ;)TAKE THAT, those of you who think this man has little or no tact.:)

SCOUT

3/9/2006, 05:16 PM

I don't believe that the insurgency is choc to the brim of religious fanatics. Sure, there are plenty, but I figure the majority of them are simply fighting an a) occupation of Iraq, or b) the Great Satan in their back yard, that otherwise would have been regulated to a life of dealing in the camel trade, eating nasty food, and nailing their nasty wives.

I am sure there are those that want the US out of Iraq. The whole occupation talking point doesn't wash with me though. How many occupiers spend a great deal of their time training another military and establishing an independent government? If we were truly occupying that would seem somewhat counterproductive.

OklahomaTuba

3/9/2006, 05:18 PM

If we were truly occupying that would seem somewhat counterproductive.
That's called common sense SCOUT.

Something many of the anti-war "Bush is hitler" crowd don't have.

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 06:09 PM

Hmm, I think the current president is the worst I have ever seen. He is certainly the dumbest sob to become president during my lifetime! And Dick Cheney is certainly appropriately named.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 06:23 PM

Hmm, I think the current president is the worst I have ever seen. He is certainly the dumbest sob to become president during my lifetime! And Dick Cheney is certainly appropriately named.OK, now we KNOW this guy is just an agitator.:eddie: ...or the biggest kool-aid drinker that's ever been. So much hate...

soonerscuba

3/9/2006, 07:05 PM

So much hate...

Says the guy bitching about a man that has not been in office for 26 years.

Okay we are simply a lasting force in a country, in which we have overthrown a government, installed our own, taken control of infastructure, and have a vague promise of return of control, how is this not an occupation? I don't care really, in fact I would be more game for "they had oil, we took it" approach that presents an honest assesment of what we are doing, hell I would love empire, I think we should look out for #1, so far this has been a money pit and a death trap that has not brought a return on our (well, our children's) investment.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/9/2006, 07:27 PM

[QUOTE=soonerscuba]Says the guy bitching about a man that has not been in office for 26 years.

Sounds like you're saying jdsooner IS Jimmuh Carter. :D If so, no wonder he says Carter's thoughts have merit.

SCOUT

3/9/2006, 08:20 PM

Says the guy bitching about a man that has not been in office for 26 years.

Okay we are simply a lasting force in a country, in which we have overthrown a dictatorship, installed a democracy, restored the infastructure, and have a real promise of return of control, how is this not an occupation?

Doesn't sound like an occupation when you present it in a different light. A light I think is reality for what it is worth.

jdsooner

3/9/2006, 09:19 PM

I ahm not Jimma Cawtah. I ahm not that old. And to bolster my argument, this fascinating unsubstantiated e-mail I received:

A report published Monday by the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania, detailed its findings of a four month study of the intelligence quotient of President George W. Bush.

Since 1973, the Lovenstein Institute has published its research to the educational community on each new president, which includes the famous "IQ" report among others.

There have been twelve presidents over the past 50 years, from F.D. Roosevelt to G.W. Bush, who were rated based on scholarly achievements:

1. Writings that they produced without aid of staff
2. Their ability to speak with clarity, and several other psychological factors, which were then scored using the Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking.

The study determined the following IQs of each president as accurate to within five percentage points.

In order by presidential term:

Franklin Delano Roosevelt [D] 142,
Harry S Truman [D] 132,
Dwight David Eisenhower [R] 122
John Fitzgerald Kennedy [D] 174,
Lyndon Baines Johnson [D] 126,
Richard Milhous Nixon [R] 155,
Gerald R. Ford [R] 121,
James Earle Carter [D] 175,
Ronald Wilson Reagan [R] 105
George Herbert Walker Bush [R] 98,
William Jefferson Clinton [D] 182,
George Walker Bush [R] 91

In order of IQ rating:

182 William Jefferson Clinton [D]
175 James Earle Carter [D]
174 John Fitzgerald Kennedy [D]
155 Richard Milhous Nixon [R]
147 Franklin Delano Roosevelt [D]
132 Harry S Truman [D]
126 Lyndon Baines Johnson [D]
122 Dwight David Eisenhower [R]
121 Gerald R. Ford [R]
105 Ronald Wilson Reagan [R]
098 George Herbert Walker Bush [R]
091 George Walker Bush [R]

mdklatt

3/9/2006, 09:46 PM

unsubstantiated e-mail

No ****. :rolleyes:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

You're really not doing your side any favors.

TheHumanAlphabet

3/10/2006, 09:37 AM

Kinky Friedman for Governor... How Hard Can It Be? :texan:

Actually, I voted for Star Locke, she has OU ties...

I don't think she got to many votes however. I have serious problems voting for the Aggie and Home Builder ripoff family guy...

TheHumanAlphabet

3/10/2006, 09:40 AM

TheHumanAlphabet

3/10/2006, 09:41 AM

OklahomaTuba

3/10/2006, 09:44 AM

In order of IQ rating:

182 William Jefferson Clinton [D]
175 James Earle Carter [D]
174 John Fitzgerald Kennedy [D]
155 Richard Milhous Nixon [R]
147 Franklin Delano Roosevelt [D]
132 Harry S Truman [D]
126 Lyndon Baines Johnson [D]
122 Dwight David Eisenhower [R]
121 Gerald R. Ford [R]
105 Ronald Wilson Reagan [R]
098 George Herbert Walker Bush [R]
091 George Walker Bush [R]

No wonder Carter had such a firm grasp on basic subjects like economics.

And thank God Dubya beat Gore and Kerry, since he had a higher IQ than both of those morons.

OklahomaTuba

3/10/2006, 09:46 AM

You know, we could tell Clinton was intelligent, too bad he put it to bad use. What a waste. Spent most of his time playing around with his power and trying to figure out how much puntang he could get...
No kidding. Dude is one smart cookie.

I've always respected him for that because of where he came from.

Harry Beanbag

3/10/2006, 09:47 AM

No ****. :rolleyes:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

You're really not doing your side any favors.

He's reduced to posting articles that were disproved as total b.s. made-up garbage 5 years ago. Sad really.

C&CDean

3/10/2006, 09:52 AM

He's reduced to posting articles that were disproved as total b.s. made-up garbage 5 years ago. Sad really.

Your average, run-of-the-mill, deviant sex loving, baby-killing lefty really has no use for the truth. That's very obvious, isn't it?

OklahomaTuba

3/10/2006, 09:56 AM

Yes, facts and lefties are a lot like oil and water.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/10/2006, 11:03 AM

Sad for you, jdsooner, that you might believe what you wrote in post #140. It's almost always the tactic of the left to call conservatives stupid. It makes them feel smart and helps to remove doubt about the viability of their political and economic ideas, I guess.

mdklatt

3/10/2006, 11:09 AM

jdsooner

3/10/2006, 02:22 PM

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/10/2006, 02:30 PM

To be fair, the right does the same thing by calling the left immoral. So, you're saying that most lefties are moral, no?

mdklatt

3/10/2006, 02:49 PM

So, you're saying that most lefties are moral, no?

They're no more immoral as a group than anybody else. They oppose the death penalty and want universal health care, for example. Isn't compassion part of morality?

Harry Beanbag

3/10/2006, 02:52 PM

They're no more immoral as a group than anybody else. They oppose the death penalty and want universal health care, for example. Isn't compassion part of morality?

Unless you're a fetus I guess.

mdklatt

3/10/2006, 02:59 PM

Unless you're a fetus I guess.

Republicans only give a **** until you're born, and then it's sink or swim.

You shouldn't have picked a crack whore for a mom, kid. No health care for you!

Neither side has an exclusive claim on the moral high ground.

C&CDean

3/10/2006, 03:06 PM

Unless you're a fetus I guess.

Or some guy's poor butthole.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/10/2006, 03:06 PM

They're no more immoral as a group than anybody else. They oppose the death penalty and want universal health care, for example. Isn't compassion part of morality?Isn't unwillingness to recognize that socialism isn't moral, it's dumb, being immoral? What's moral about killing the innocent, and letting serial killers live, for example?

C&CDean

3/10/2006, 03:07 PM

picasso

3/10/2006, 04:41 PM

Republicans only give a **** until you're born, and then it's sink or swim.

You shouldn't have picked a crack whore for a mom, kid. No health care for you!

Neither side has an exclusive claim on the moral high ground.
what the hell does this mean? are you saying because MOST of the country is against socialized medicine that we want little kids to die?
You do know there is free health care available for those who qualify don't you?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

3/10/2006, 05:55 PM

what the hell does this mean? are you saying because MOST of the country is against socialized medicine that we want little kids to die?
You do know there is free health care available for those who qualify don't you?Let's hope the md in his name doesn't stand for medical doctor.

mdklatt

3/10/2006, 06:11 PM

What's moral about killing the innocent, and letting serial killers live, for example?

It's a virtual certainty that innocent people have been executed in the past, and will exectued in the future. "Collateral damage" may be unavoidable, but I don't know if you can call it fine, upstanding moral behavior.

All I'm saying is that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have any business playing the morality card. Or the intelligence card. Or the race card. Or the class warfare card. Or the corruption card. Or the out of touch with reality card. Everybody is equally full of ****. And it's just sad as hell that so many people don't realize that and simply vote for whomever has the correct letter next to his name.

mdklatt

3/10/2006, 06:28 PM

are you saying because MOST of the country is against socialized medicine that we want little kids to die?

Are we as a nation doing everything we possibly can to make sure that bad things don't happen to little kids? No. We may not want bad things to happen to kids, but we obviously put a higher priority on other things. And I don't have a problem with that. I also don't try to claim that I'm morally superior than anybody else, either.

You do know there is free health care available for those who qualify don't you?

I'm almost certain this wasn't a Republican initiative. This free care usually amounts to free emergency care, which is less effective and more expensive to taxpayers in the long run than free preventative care. And also more dangerous in the age of bioweapons and bird flu. But that's another thread.