View Full Version : This lawsuit should spark interesting discussion
royalfan5
3/8/2006, 11:07 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/08/fatherhood.suit.ap/index.html
How much say should a father get in an unplanned pregnancy?
Boomer.....
3/9/2006, 10:03 AM
Lord, a bunch of dead beat dads are trying to find any possible way out of paying child support.
colleyvillesooner
3/9/2006, 10:05 AM
Dubay says he has been ordered to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to his ex-girlfriend. He contends that the woman knew he didn't want to have a child with her and assured him repeatedly that -- because of a physical condition -- she could not get pregnant.
That would suck.
I don't necessairly think a law like that should be passed though.
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 10:10 AM
Anytime you put tab A into slot B you have to have awareness that the possibility, however remote, exists that you can impregnate a woman. Nothing is failsafe. Ask yourself if you're ready for ANY consequence of that action and then pump or bail.
Hatfield
3/9/2006, 10:11 AM
i think it is an interesting topic to discuss and think about my roomate in law school wrote his writing requirement on what would essentially be called a constructive abortion by the father whereby he terminates his parental rights (and support requirements).
didn't necessarily agree with most of it but it was an interesting read.
"The problem is this is so politically incorrect," Feit added. "The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility."
yeah, because women apparently have to :rolleyes:
Anytime you put tab A into slot B you have to have awareness that the possibility, however remote, exists that you can impregnate a woman. Nothing is failsafe. Ask yourself if you're ready for ANY consequence of that action and then pump or bail.
Solution: Choose Slot C - but not D. D is the wrong slot, unless Slots B and C aren't working.
frankensooner
3/9/2006, 10:15 AM
I say tough chit. These sperm donors should quit their whining and step up and be men, not cowering little wimps. Selfish stingy jerks. The kids are probably better without their physical presence, but them moms sure need the money.
OU Adonis
3/9/2006, 10:17 AM
Last time I tried to insert into D slot, the girl I was dating hit me.
jeremy885
3/9/2006, 10:19 AM
While I disagree with the guy on his reasons for trying to get out of paying child support (My dad paid maybe 2 months of child support out of the 13 years he was required to do so), I still feel that there is gender bias in the law. A man can be responsible for the child when it's born but doesn't have a say on whether or not the woman can have an abortion. I would like to see a restriction added that forces a woman to have the child if the father doesn't give consent, if the father is willing and able to raise the child on his own.
I say tough chit. These sperm donors should quit their whining and step up and be men, not cowering little wimps. Selfish stingy jerks. The kids are probably better without their physical presence, but them moms sure need the money.
for the most part, i agree
but "reproductive rights" should go both ways, he gets no say either way. but ends up footing the bill regardless
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 10:24 AM
but ends up footing the bill regardless
Footing the bill? He gives $500 a month. Big whoop. Wonder if what she has to do is harder?
When you get married, Slot C stops working also.
Footing the bill? He gives $500 a month. Big whoop. Wonder if what she has to do is harder?
in this case it's $500, what about the guy that wins the Super Bowl and drives off in a Hyundai?
i think someone who doesn't take responsibility is a POS, but women sure seem to hold all the cards in this one
the whole idea of the feminists saying that men need to "take responsibilty for their actions" cracks me up.
that only applies if they think it's the right time in their lives to have a baby, you know as long as it's not inconvenient for them right now.
jk the sooner fan
3/9/2006, 10:35 AM
the flip side of this case is the man that wants his partner to keep the baby when she wants to abort it
men have no say whatsoever, which is wrong imo....however, weighted against the womans decision, the men are going to lose
this is a bad case...you make a baby, you support it..period.......you dont want the baby? great, i doubt he wants your *** for a deadbeat dad but he's stuck with you for life
BeetDigger
3/9/2006, 10:35 AM
Last time I tried to insert into D slot, the girl I was dating hit me.
There was an entire thread on homosexuality that dealt with slot D.
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 10:35 AM
that only applies if they think it's the right time in their lives to have a baby, you know as long as it's not inconvenient for them right now.
That's because they're women. The fairer sex. You're a man. Sometimes **** happens and yes, you're expected to deal with it. No it's not fair, but as long as we rule the earth, and let's face it, we still rule the earth, we get to take care of 'sponsibilities.
crawfish
3/9/2006, 10:36 AM
Well...as far as sperm donors go, they should be totally exempt from any future responsibility.
For the vast majority of situations, though, the man should NOT be exempt from financial responsibility. As said above, when you commit the act you're knowingly taking the chance that a child will come out of it, and that child's welfare needs to be paramount.
My problem is that the attitudes of what's best for the CHILD are pre-Roe. The courts assume that as long as the check is flowing from father to child, everything's ok...even if the custodial mother decides to ignore visitation. Or, in many cases they assume that the mother is the most fit parent to be the chief custodian, even when it's almost obviously not. If the courts are going to expect financial responsibility from the father, then they ALSO need to expect that the mother acts in good faith with the law.
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 10:36 AM
the flip side of this case is the man that wants his partner to keep the baby when she wants to abort it
men have no say whatsoever, which is wrong imo....however, weighted against the womans decision, the men are going to lose
this is a bad case...you make a baby, you support it..period.......you dont want the baby? great, i doubt he wants your *** for a deadbeat dad but he's stuck with you for life
I think that's twice in two days we've agreed on something. Woot!
colleyvillesooner
3/9/2006, 10:37 AM
...but as long as we rule the earth, and let's face it, we still rule the earth, we get to take care of 'sponsibilities.
We do? You're single, huh? ;)
BeetDigger
3/9/2006, 10:40 AM
i think someone who doesn't take responsibility is a POS, but women sure seem to hold all the cards in this one
the whole idea of the feminists saying that men need to "take responsibilty for their actions" cracks me up.
that only applies if they think it's the right time in their lives to have a baby, you know as long as it's not inconvenient for them right now.
The funny thing is that there have been court cases argued by the same feminists who say that the man has no right to decide about what happens to the baby: abortion or adoption or keep. The woman holds the entire decision. But if that decision is to keep, then the man has to go with that decision and pay the child support. Wouldn't having a potential future financial obligation give the man some say in the matter? Apparently for the feminists, the answer is NO.
That's because they're women. The fairer sex. You're a man. Sometimes **** happens and yes, you're expected to deal with it. No it's not fair, but as long as we rule the earth, and let's face it, we still rule the earth, we get to take care of 'sponsibilities.
do women need equal rights or not?
jk hit on the other part of this that i was kinda hinting at
The funny thing is that there have been court cases argued by the same feminists who say that the man has no right to decide about what happens to the baby: abortion or adoption or keep. The woman holds the entire decision. But if that decision is to keep, then the man has to go with that decision and pay the child support. Wouldn't having a potential future financial obligation give the man some say in the matter? Apparently for the feminists, the answer is NO.
this is what i mean, half of that baby belongs to the father
if neither of them want the baby, they can always leave it at a church or hospital or whatever that law says ;) (you know, as opposed to a dumpster)
TheHumanAlphabet
3/9/2006, 11:06 AM
I say tough chit. These sperm donors should quit their whining and step up and be men, not cowering little wimps. Selfish stingy jerks. The kids are probably better without their physical presence, but them moms sure need the money.
Why? She could have given it for adoption, which would be a better option if she was not financially able to care for the kid. I'd sue her and force the kid into adoption. Just because you can and do have babies entitles you to be able to raise it...
jk the sooner fan
3/9/2006, 11:08 AM
Why? She could have given it for adoption, which would be a better option if she was not financially able to care for the kid. I'd sue her and force the kid into adoption. Just because you can and do have babies entitles you to be able to raise it...
you'd force the kid into adoption?
****ty much?
frankensooner
3/9/2006, 11:13 AM
If these guys never want to pay child support there is a very easy solution. Women can have abortions, right, well why don't the men just get vasectomies. Easy Peasy.
they why don't women have premtive hysterectomies?
TheHumanAlphabet
3/9/2006, 11:18 AM
you'd force the kid into adoption?
****ty much?
We'll she'd sue you for money. Why should the kid be brought up in an environment of poverty, single parenthood, etc. when there is an option. I don't get these women who think they are responsible raising children they have no business having and there is no male figure around wanting to be father... No saying that some people can't do the job, etc. There are options that today's culture seems to frown on.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/9/2006, 11:19 AM
If these guys never want to pay child support there is a very easy solution. Women can have abortions, right, well why don't the men just get vasectomies. Easy Peasy.
The guys can keep it covered or abstain...
If you aren't ready for the consequences, no matter what you have been told, you better be prepared for all outcomes...
jk the sooner fan
3/9/2006, 11:20 AM
my thoughts are that we're talking about a human being here....you know, the kid that has no say in anything while the two dimwit adults battle it out in the courts
i think i'd just take the bullet on this one and support the kid i created rather than make a point over money
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 11:30 AM
I'd......force the kid into adoption.
Worst.
Post.
Evar.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/9/2006, 11:35 AM
Why is adoption so evil?
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 11:38 AM
Why is adoption so evil?
It's your child!!!!11 Are you seriously that selfish?
TheHumanAlphabet
3/9/2006, 11:47 AM
It's not my child. I kept mine in my pants until I married!
However, just because the women can bring the baby to term, doesn't mean she should raise it? Many children might be better off with a family that wants a child (a man and woman) and can care for it, rather than a young woman, not prepared for parentalhood, keeping the baby because she and a guy participated in an act that created one and she wants to keep it. Perhaps the court should force her into adoption? Just sayin', the old (liberal) court adage that the child is best with the mother may not be so in all cases. Though I don't disagree with making men responsible, god knows there are plenty of deadbeats out there.
But then, this was a discussion about men rights and them finding just the "right" lawsuit to bring to court. This was a tailormade case and probably not one that has much reality to it...
It's your child!!!!11 Are you seriously that selfish?
just playing Devil's Advocate here...
why is it not selfish for the mother to do the same thing?
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 12:02 PM
It's not my child. I kept mine in my pants until I married!
You said, "I'd......force the kid into adoption". What were you talking about? I assumed you were telling me what you'd do in that situation if it were your kid.
And if it were your kid and you allowed it to be put up for adoption and didn't take care of your repsonsibility I'd tell you what a sorry piece of **** I thought you were.
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 12:03 PM
just playing Devil's Advocate here...
why is it not selfish for the mother to do the same thing?
Didn't say it wasn't.
A lot of you may think I'm some sort of free-wheeling hippie lib, but I'm HUGE on personal responsibility and taking care of your business. I think people who don't succs.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/9/2006, 12:24 PM
You said, "I'd......force the kid into adoption". What were you talking about? I assumed you were telling me what you'd do in that situation if it were your kid.
And if it were your kid and you allowed it to be put up for adoption and didn't take care of your repsonsibility I'd tell you what a sorry piece of **** I thought you were.
So you think I'm a sorry piece?
Well, we were speaking hypothetically about the said lawsuit. I am saying, why force the guy to be responsible when there are other alternatives - adoption being one I can think of, in lieu of abortion. You know, in the old days, the child would be put up for adoption by the woman's parents. Why should the default be to have the mother care for the child when she is not able to financially or by maturity?
While I abhor men who are sperm donors and then shirk their responsibility, why many women choose to keep the child and become welfare mothers, I fail to understand...Sometimes, as much as it seems wrong, the child may not be best served by staying with the mother, when a loving family is available.
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 12:34 PM
So you think I'm a sorry piece?
Well, we were speaking hypothetically about the said lawsuit.
Did you actually do that? No. I was talking about the hypothetical you. Kind of like a Star Trek episode.
I am saying, why force the guy to be responsible when there are other alternatives - adoption being one
That kind of thinking is what's wrong with America, IMHO.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/9/2006, 12:58 PM
That kind of thinking is what's wrong with America, IMHO.
I am actually very much about being responsible and responsibility...
I think that the sperm donors should be held to account.
However, I am very tired of wemen (misspelled intentionally) thinking that they are alone the sole repository of raising children. As I said, what happened to adopting out your child. Just because you can have children doesn't mean you should or that you are best suited to raise the child. Some of these wemen have children as pets so they can "love" something. I'm sorry, you are missing to much in life to properly raise a child if you have that type of thinking. However, if a judge ruled that you should lose custody and adopt out the child, he/she would rue the day they made that judgement...
So, are you against adoption? Do you think (yes or no) that there are people and people in situations who shouldn't raise children? Or do you think all women should raise their own children?
TexasLidig8r
3/9/2006, 01:21 PM
A lot of you may think I'm some sort of well dressed, metrosexualite, free-wheeling hippie lib, but I'm HUGE on personal responsibility and taking care of your business. I think people who don't succs.
Corrected text.
You are most welcome. :D
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 01:45 PM
Corrected text.
You are most welcome. :D
I do have my Ferragamo's on today. :D
Well women can do several things with an unborn/newborn child that a man has no choice over:
1. She can choose to abort. Even if the father wants the child and could take care of it. She can simply have the child killed and that's the end of it.
2. She can give the child up for abortion. Anonymously. Even if the father wants the child and would be happy to raise the child himself if he had to. She can simply give the child away to strangers.
3. She can choose to keep the child. Even if she has no business raising a child and the father neither wants a/the child, she can keep the child and raise it in a potentially horrible situation.
To me, this is just unfair. People argue that it is 'best for the child' that father be forced to pay child support for an unwanted child. I wonder what decisions would be made and what environments children would be brought up in if a father had the same right to reliquish his responsibilities as a parent as a women does. My guess is that there would be a lot more responsible decisions being made by both parties.
And if it were your kid and you allowed it to be put up for adoption and didn't take care of your repsonsibility I'd tell you what a sorry piece of **** I thought you were. I just want to clarify this out a bit more. You're saying people who have no means or capability and perhaps even have no business raising a child, are irresponsible for giving that child up for adoption?
I disagree.
that dude is never getting any *** again though
he's done :D
Stanley1
3/9/2006, 03:09 PM
Abstinance biotches.
frankensooner
3/9/2006, 03:09 PM
funny how people twist things, ain't it...
JohnnyMack
3/9/2006, 03:15 PM
I just want to clarify this out a bit more. You're saying people who have no means or capability and perhaps even have no business raising a child, are irresponsible for giving that child up for adoption?
I disagree.
If you have no means or capability don't get someone pregnant.
And what kind of man has no means or capability to not earn income? Hell Lt. Dan had no legs and that sucka worked a shrimp boat.
NormanPride
3/9/2006, 03:58 PM
If you have no means or capability don't get someone pregnant.
And what kind of man has no means or capability to not earn income? Hell Lt. Dan had no legs and that sucka worked a shrimp boat.
This just doesn't seem realistic to me. Of course there are people that can't afford having a kid. Of course there are people to immature to raise one. I've seen way too many kids raised by grandparents that are too frail/whatever to keep up, and seen them turn out horribly. The same goes for parents who are too young/too immature to raise kids. The best option for the child would be adoption before these parents had a chance to corrupt the poor thing.
It just seems inhumane to me to submit a baby to parents that are neither emotionally nor financially equipped to care for it properly.
i think it is an interesting topic to discuss and think about my roomate in law school wrote his writing requirement on what would essentially be called a constructive abortion by the father whereby he terminates his parental rights (and support requirements).
didn't necessarily agree with most of it but it was an interesting read.
I'd give your roommate an F. The law is clear that you can terminate your parental rights but that does not let you off the hook and does not terminate your parental responsibilities. Another man must adopt and assume the responsibilities for the child that the biological dad is giving up.
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