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View Full Version : How many times has Kelvin "underachieved" in the tourney?



soonervegas
3/6/2006, 05:46 PM
When I really look at I can only see 2 real underachievements:

2001 Indiana State
1995 Manhattan

In my humble opinion I do not think 3 vs. 6 games are upsets. The teams are just toio close in ability.

Discuss.

oumartin
3/6/2006, 05:53 PM
2002 Indiana, They played their best and OU played not so well.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/6/2006, 05:55 PM
The margin of the loss against Temple you could categorize as an underachievment but the match-up was pretty even. The Stanford, Indiana and Purdue games were all 50/50 games. The 98-99 run was a big overachievement. A 3 losing to a 6 isn't a big deal when Utah had guys hitting shots in their sleep. Collectively I think it is fair to say that Sampson has underachieved in the NCAA tourney. It is also fair to say he has at times overachieved in the regular season and conference tourney.

Indiana St loss was bad but Manhattan was in a class by itself IMHO.

NormanPride
3/6/2006, 05:58 PM
2002 Indiana, They played their best and OU played not so well.

Man, that was the Final 4. Sure, I thought we could have won that game, but it happens, you know?

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/6/2006, 05:58 PM
2002 Indiana, They played their best and OU played not so well.

I thought we could/should have won but if a Final 4 run at Oklahoma is underachieving then you might have to re-examine your expectations. Under that standard our loss to KU in 88 was a huge underachievement.

OUstud
3/6/2006, 06:05 PM
We either overachieve or underachieve. Why can't we just achieve?

oumartin
3/6/2006, 07:02 PM
so my expectations are a little unrealistic to some.

Big Red Ron
3/6/2006, 08:12 PM
Too many times. How many times have we gone one and done under KS?

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/7/2006, 09:31 AM
Too many times. How many times have we gone one and done under KS?

7 times by my count: NCAA Tourney 95,96,97,98,01 Big 12 Tourney 96,99

Billy Tubbs had 8 one and dones in case you are wondering

NCAA 84,92 Big 8 Tourney 81,83,91,93,94 NIT 94

Sooner04
3/7/2006, 09:33 AM
Kelvin has been given a seed of eight or higher six times in the NCAA Tournament while he's been at OU. Those teams have played to their seed only once: 2002.

Every other year, Kelvin's teams have "underachieved" based on where they finished in relation to the seed they were given.

That's not very good.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/7/2006, 09:56 AM
Kelvin has been given a seed of eight or higher six times in the NCAA Tournament while he's been at OU. Those teams have played to their seed only once: 2002.

Every other year, Kelvin's teams have "underachieved" based on where they finished in relation to the seed they were given.

That's not very good.


That's true though no one seriously can say losing to Syracuse a few years ago in their backyard when they were the national champ is underachieving. I also think that in 8-9 games and 7-10 games seeds are literally interchangable.

But yes we have underachieved in the tourney overall under KS to this point. No argument here.

crawfish
3/7/2006, 10:05 AM
Kelvin has been given a seed of eight or higher six times in the NCAA Tournament while he's been at OU. Those teams have played to their seed only once: 2002.

Every other year, Kelvin's teams have "underachieved" based on where they finished in relation to the seed they were given.

That's not very good.

True, but many of those times his teams overachieved just MAKING it to the tournament.

Coaching talent is very different from coaching overachievers and tweeners. I hope Kelvin gets the hang of it soon.

Vegas Sooner
3/7/2006, 11:25 AM
2001-I.S.
2002-Indiana .....I thought it was our year.

Phil
3/7/2006, 11:46 AM
Indiana St loss was bad but Manhattan was in a class by itself IMHO.

They had better never send us to play in Memphis again. Damned hokey pyramid.

TopDawg
3/7/2006, 12:54 PM
Kelvin has been given a seed of eight or higher six times in the NCAA Tournament while he's been at OU. Those teams have played to their seed only once: 2002.

Every other year, Kelvin's teams have "underachieved" based on where they finished in relation to the seed they were given.

That's not very good.

If the standard is making it as far as your seed would indicate you should, here's his resume:

1995 - 4 seed (top 16), lost in first round (underachieved)
1996 - 10 seed (underdog), lost in first round (neutral)
1997 - 11 seed (underdog), lost in first round (neutral)
1998 - 11 seed (underdog), lost in OT first round (neutral)
1999 - 13 seed (underdog), made it to Sweet 16 (overachieved)
2000 - 3 seed (top 12), lost in second round (underachieved)
2001 - 3 seed (top 12), lost in OT first round (underachieved)
2002 - 2 seed (top 8), made it to Final Four (overachieved)
2003 - 1 seed (top 4), made it to Elite Eight (underachieved)
2004 - NIT
2005 - 3 seed (top 12), lost in second round (underachieved)

4 underachieved (didn't make it as far as their seed indicated they should)
3 neutral (lost in first round as they were predicted to)
2 overachieved (made it further than their seed indicated they should)

As someone else pointed out, it seems kinda rough to hold that 2003 year to the same standard as the others. It's tough to say that any #1 seed that makes it to the Elite 8 underachieved, especially when they were knocked out by the eventual champs. If you give Sampson the benefit of the doubt that year, then it changes to:

3 underachieved
4 neutral
2 overachieved

okienole3
3/7/2006, 02:44 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with how the losses happen. If we were putting forth our best effort and losing, then that is one thing. But, sometimes it is like we didn't even show up.

TopDawg
3/7/2006, 10:32 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with how the losses happen. If we were putting forth our best effort and losing, then that is one thing. But, sometimes it is like we didn't even show up.

Yeah. I guess it's all perspective. Some people look at that and say we didn't show up. Others look at it and give credit to our opponent.

It seems that we played pretty well in the 2 losses leading up to the Sweet 16 year. Against Stanford, we just couldn't stop Brevin Knight. The next year we came close to being one of the 7-10 upsets, taking Indiana to OT.

When we were upset by Purdue in 2000, they played a great defensive game. We would've won the 2001 game if Hollis hadn't gone down (and then we would've faced the 12th seeded Zags), but that game shouldn't have even been close when Hollis went down.

The 2005 game was just one of those games where shots wouldn't fall. We were getting open looks, we just weren't knocking them down.

Jimminy Crimson
3/7/2006, 11:53 PM
They had better never send us to play in Memphis again. Damned hokey pyramid.

I agree about the pyriamid, but the new FedEx Forum is sah-weet!!

I'd gladly make that trip! :texan:

NickZeppelin
3/8/2006, 12:22 AM
Which is a worse loss. Billys loss to Louisiana Laffeyette in 91 or 92. Or Kelvins loss to Manhattan?

Jimminy Crimson
3/8/2006, 02:40 AM
Which is a worse loss. Billys loss to Louisiana Laffeyette in 91 or 92. Or Kelvins loss to Manhattan?

Tough call.

Maybe Billy's, since they were a few years out from being in the title game, while Kelvin's loss to Manhattan came before he made it to the Final Four.

:kelvin:

Sooner04
3/8/2006, 09:36 AM
Kelvin's loss to Manhattan is worse.

The loss to SW Louisiana was guaranteed a week before when Sallier tore his knee up against Kansas in Kansas City.

Sooner04
3/8/2006, 09:44 AM
Billy's loss to Dayton, though, trumps them all.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/8/2006, 09:46 AM
Kelvin's loss to Manhattan is worse.

The loss to SW Louisiana was guaranteed a week before when Sallier tore his knee up against Kansas in Kansas City.


Definitely. maybe not guaranteed but the Rajun Cajuns were better than their name would indicate. Wasn't that like a 5 vs 12 game?

Had we not hit a 3-point shot in the final seconds against East Tennesse St in 1989 to win 72-71 we would have been the only 1 seed to ever lose to a 16 so that deserves honorable mention.

Grimey
3/8/2006, 10:08 AM
Definitely. maybe not guaranteed but the Rajun Cajuns were better than their name would indicate. Wasn't that like a 5 vs 12 game?

Had we not hit a 3-point shot in the final seconds against East Tennesse St in 1989 to win 72-71 we would have been the only 1 seed to ever lose to a 16 so that deserves honorable mention.

God, I am so glad we didnt lose that game. I don't think a 1 seed will ever lose. I can't imagine if we were the only ones to EVAR do it.

CtheB
3/8/2006, 10:12 AM
Billy's loss to Dayton, though, trumps them all.

Roosevelt Chatman....still gives me nightmares. What did he have that game....41????? Wayman had 35 or so?

Sooner04
3/8/2006, 10:13 AM
ETSU had us completely on the ropes. I still don't know how we pulled that game out considering everyone in Nashville was rooting against us once ETSU made it close.

We took out our anger on LaTech two days later, though. Dropped 124 on those Techsters.

CtheB
3/8/2006, 10:43 AM
Wasn't there also a game against Colorado in 1990, first round of the Big 8 tourney, when the Buffs were the Puffs, and we needed a Tyrone Jones 3 at the end of the game to win it. We were #1 in country, and they were #8 seed in tourney.

TopDawg
3/8/2006, 10:47 AM
Had we not hit a 3-point shot in the final seconds against East Tennesse St in 1989 to win 72-71 we would have been the only 1 seed to ever lose to a 16 so that deserves honorable mention.

If that were to happen today, the resulting SoonerFans.com explosion would probably knock the whole Internet out for a few days.

Harry Beanbag
3/8/2006, 11:45 AM
ETSU had us completely on the ropes. I still don't know how we pulled that game out considering everyone in Nashville was rooting against us once ETSU made it close.


Was that the game where Brent Musberger was fellating their 5 foot guard the entire time? I think his first name was Mister.

NormanPride
3/8/2006, 11:54 AM
If that were to happen today, the resulting SoonerFans.com explosion would probably knock the whole Internet out for a few days.

I imagine people weren't too happy back then...

Harry Beanbag
3/8/2006, 11:57 AM
I also remember a much too close of a game against Towson f'n State as the #1 seed in 1990. Followed up by Rick Fox two days later. I hated that tournament.

MojoRisen
3/8/2006, 12:04 PM
I also remember a much too close of a game against Towson f'n State as the #1 seed in 1990. Followed up by Rick Fox two days later. I hated that tournament.

That did suck- but Rick Foxx turned out to be pretty good. Shiaat 15 years in the NBA..

TopDawg
3/8/2006, 01:03 PM
To add insult to injury, we were in Austin in 90, weren't we?

Salt City Sooner
3/8/2006, 01:07 PM
Definitely. maybe not guaranteed but the Rajun Cajuns were better than their name would indicate. Wasn't that like a 5 vs 12 game?

Had we not hit a 3-point shot in the final seconds against East Tennesse St in 1989 to win 72-71 we would have been the only 1 seed to ever lose to a 16 so that deserves honorable mention.
4 vs. 13, same seeding as OU/Manhattan.

King Crimson
3/8/2006, 01:12 PM
To add insult to injury, we were in Austin in 90, weren't we?

yes.

King Crimson
3/8/2006, 01:13 PM
i have a good friend, ND and St. John's fan, who STILL talks **** about Roosevelt Chapman.

NickZeppelin
3/8/2006, 01:13 PM
4 vs. 13, same seeding as OU/Manhattan.

And that was when 4 and 13 upsets almost never happened. Now you may see one 13 beat a 4. I think we beat Arizona as a 13 in 2000.

King Crimson
3/8/2006, 01:18 PM
sleeper picks:

losing to Memphis State in the Elite Eight was a killer: talk about a bunch of thugs....Keith Lee, Dana Kirk (who are both in jail, i think) and Andre Turner.....i think had a drug arrest.....whole program went on probabtion shortly thereafter.

UVA in 1989, and Bryant Stith.

and the game we don't talk about.

Harry Beanbag
3/8/2006, 02:05 PM
UVA in 1989, and Bryant Stith.


John Crotty, the bastard. :mad:

Grimey
3/8/2006, 02:11 PM
and people wonder why I don't like it when we get a #1 seed to the big dance. too much pressure of being the first to fall

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/8/2006, 02:55 PM
and people wonder why I don't like it when we get a #1 seed to the big dance. too much pressure of being the first to fall


If the NCAA wants to give us a #1 seed this year or any year I'll take it. I think the pressure is when you are a 3-4 seed and you are playing the first game on Thurs morning. We've gone down that road.

Grimey
3/9/2006, 10:09 AM
I dunno. I think God has us marked to be the first #1 seed to fall, whenever the next time we get one is
;)

OUstud
3/9/2006, 04:43 PM
No, that will be Gonzaga if they get one. You heard it here.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/9/2006, 04:55 PM
No, that will be Gonzaga if they get one. You heard it here.


I'm with you. Morrison is a great scorer and Batista pretty good too but that team plays almost ZERO defense. They are going to be a 2 seed and will get whacked by a 7-10 in the second round.