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jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/6/2006, 12:46 PM
what % of a pay decrease would you take before you started looking? before you told your boss what they could do with it and quit on the spot?


yeah, this should be a poll
Harry Beanbag
3/6/2006, 12:51 PM
Depends on how much they were overpaying me in the first place. ;)

Actually, I would start looking the minute the subject was broached, that doesn't sound like a very promising sign to me.
Boomer.....
3/6/2006, 12:52 PM
I wouldn't like any pay decrease, unless your job is based on commission. With inflation, salaries should only increase.
sooner n houston
3/6/2006, 12:53 PM
Why would you want to take a pay decrease?
slickdawg
3/6/2006, 12:54 PM
That is a hard question to answer without more facts.

Big company or small company?
Company finances doing well or not?
Company fully staffed or has positions open?
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/6/2006, 12:55 PM
i'm overpaid by about 99.99999%

it was a 4% pay reduction mainly because of a comedy of clerical errors. i was actually just about to agree to a new job (literally 45 minutes later) when they offered me indirect compensation (75k worth of training). it was enough of a bribe that i decided to stick around to see if they make it right next year (the 4% + another 4%).
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
3/6/2006, 12:58 PM
That is a hard question to answer without more facts.

Big company or small company?
Company finances doing well or not?
Company fully staffed or has positions open?

big (bearingpoint)
heh, sox 404 is killing them
open

i make an insane amount of money for what i do so i can't act rashly. this was more just a question of what the people on this board would do. i know had this happened before i got into consulting, the call would have changed from a "your compensation is going down" call to a "what exactly do you need on my resignation letter?" call
slickdawg
3/6/2006, 01:05 PM
big (bearingpoint)
heh, sox 404 is killing them
open

i make an insane amount of money for what i do so i can't act rashly. this was more just a question of what the people on this board would do. i know had this happened before i got into consulting, the call would have changed from a "your compensation is going down" call to a "what exactly do you need on my resignation letter?" call

Given the apparent stability of the job and the fact they will give you $75K in training, I'd do what you are doing, wait and see how it goes.
Mjcpr
3/6/2006, 01:21 PM
i make an insane amount of money for what i do so i can't act rashly.

Sounds like a question only Bruce could answer.
yermom
3/6/2006, 01:22 PM
what exactly do you need on my resignation letter?

i like that...
OUinFLA
3/6/2006, 01:29 PM
check with 1TC, I think he changes jobs for............about $43.50.

Oh, and a copy girl who wont put out.
1stTimeCaller
3/6/2006, 02:00 PM
check with 1TC, I think he changes jobs for............about $43.50.

Oh, and a copy girl who wont put out.

hey now, it was the principle of the $43.65. I also make 4k more than I did by switching companies so that $43.65 was a pretty good investment ;)
BajaOklahoma
3/6/2006, 02:03 PM
I look at it a bit differently.
Do you like the job?
4% reduction equals how many days of work? Are you likely to find a job before you have lost more than the 4%?
Can you use the next year to network for a new job, if the 4% + the 4% doesn't pan out?
JohnnyMack
3/6/2006, 03:55 PM
I think 1tc is a moron.
NormanPride
3/6/2006, 04:21 PM
I think 1tc is a moron.

That probably deserves its own thread, or do we have too many about him already?
OUthunder
3/6/2006, 04:38 PM
Well the NWA pilots will take about a 30% paycut before they look elsewhere it seems.

Geez, grow a pair fellas.
mdklatt
3/6/2006, 04:42 PM
Well the NWA pilots will take about a 30% paycut before they look elsewhere it seems.

Geez, grow a pair fellas.

Where else are they supposed to look?
colleyvillesooner
3/6/2006, 04:45 PM
Well the NWA pilots will take about a 30% paycut before they look elsewhere it seems.

Geez, grow a pair fellas.

Those dudes weren't pilots...
NormanPride
3/6/2006, 04:47 PM
Where else are they supposed to look?

Southwest is growing still, I believe. There are other Airlines that are growing as well. It just takes some looking...
OUthunder
3/6/2006, 04:50 PM
Where else are they supposed to look?


American
TWA
Sun Country
Southwest
Delta
AmericaWest

That's just the biggies off the top of my head. Need I go on?
OUthunder
3/6/2006, 04:50 PM
Those dudes weren't pilots...


Unfortunately, they were (are).
Mjcpr
3/6/2006, 04:51 PM
American
TWA
Sun Country
Southwest
Delta
AmericaWest

That's just the biggies off the top of my head. Need I go on?

TWA hasn't existed for a while now I think.
OUthunder
3/6/2006, 04:52 PM
TWA hasn't existed for a while now I think.


American, same difference.
mdklatt
3/6/2006, 04:55 PM
Southwest is growing still, I believe. There are other Airlines that are growing as well. It just takes some looking...

As soon as you move to another airline you lose you seniority, which is a huge deal. Not to mention that every other airline other than Southwest has been in the same situation in recent memory and probably will be again soon (if it isn't already).
Vaevictis
3/6/2006, 04:55 PM
In my experience, if you're in consulting, you have to be a little more... flexible about your compensation, both in terms of variable wages and in the frequency of payments (because the client will often jack around on payment dates).

I had a job once where they tried to cut my pay by about 40%. My response was to tell them to expect correspondance from my lawyer the instant they followed through (I had a written contract with pay schedule). They ended up paying me 150% of a year's salary to go away.

Anything less than 6% isn't going to bug me for it's own sake, but it does cause me to start asking other questions about the viability of the company, what my future there looks like, etc. Depending on the company and my prospects within it, there's a certain amount of lowered pay that may be worth it.

You just have to compare the cut that's staring you in the face with the expected value of future compensation, and with the expected value of the compensation you expect elsewhere.
Mjcpr
3/6/2006, 04:55 PM
American, same difference.

Yep.

And don't forget Braniff.
OUthunder
3/6/2006, 04:58 PM
As soon as you move to another airline you lose you seniority, which is a huge deal. Not to mention that every other airline other than Southwest has been in the same situation in recent memory and probably will be again soon (if it isn't already).



There retirement is already ****, so they might as well look elsewehere. How much **** do you have to eat before you grow a set and stand up for yourself? I live next door to a pilot and he voted NO!
NormanPride
3/6/2006, 05:02 PM
As soon as you move to another airline you lose you seniority, which is a huge deal. Not to mention that every other airline other than Southwest has been in the same situation in recent memory and probably will be again soon (if it isn't already).

Yeah, but crappy seniority > crappy unstable pay-cutting job.
colleyvillesooner
3/6/2006, 05:12 PM
Unfortunately, they were (are).

I was making a veiled reference to NWA the rap group. Swing and a miss. I'll reload and try again later.
mdklatt
3/6/2006, 06:05 PM
Yeah, but crappy seniority > crappy unstable pay-cutting job.

Not at all; it's not a lateral move. An airline pilot's seniority number determines everything. When you change airlines you start all over again from the bottom, including salary.

If you're a senior executive wouldn't you prefer a 30% pay cut to taking a mailroom job at some other company? Airline managment has pilots by the balls, and they know it.
Getem
3/6/2006, 06:42 PM
Not at all; it's not a lateral move. An airline pilot's seniority number determines everything. When you change airlines you start all over again from the bottom, including salary.

If you're a senior executive wouldn't you prefer a 30% pay cut to taking a mailroom job at some other company? Airline managment has pilots by the balls, and they know it.

Yep, you could go from a $250k intl pilot to a 35k scrub doing that. Plus most of the big airlines have pilots on furlough that have recall rights before any new pilots could be hired. Don't blame the airline mgmt, it is the pilots unions that have fought so hard for it to be this way.
mdklatt
3/6/2006, 06:52 PM
Don't blame the airline mgmt, it is the pilots unions that have fought so hard for it to be this way.

This doesn't change the fact that management has the pilots by the balls. ;)
Cam
3/6/2006, 07:12 PM
i'm overpaid by about 99.99999%

it was a 4% pay reduction mainly because of a comedy of clerical errors. i was actually just about to agree to a new job (literally 45 minutes later) when they offered me indirect compensation (75k worth of training). it was enough of a bribe that i decided to stick around to see if they make it right next year (the 4% + another 4%).
Since you can willingly admit that you're overpaid and it's somewhat due to clerical errors, I'd stick around. Plus the 75K in training is huge down the road.

That is if I liked my job. If I hated it, I'd be out the door.
Al Gore
3/6/2006, 07:13 PM
I volunteered a paycut 2 years ago to help the bottom line.....I was overpaid to begin with.....
Penguin
3/6/2006, 07:14 PM
There sure are a lot of references to balls in this thread.


Does the SO need to come out of the closet? ;)
OUAndy1807
3/6/2006, 07:14 PM
This is a complicated question (obviously). I think a lot of times we let out egos play too big a role in these kinds of decisions. I know the general field you're in, and from your posts I can tell you're an analytical guy, so when it comes down to stuff like this you should use those strong points to your advantage. I know that there are people in my company (and other company's) making way more than me and doing less, and yet I justify staying where I am (for now) because of a lot of reasons. To me, these are the most important in no particular order:

* Are you the only bread winner in your family? Are you completely dependent on your income and would you have trouble finding another job that would allow you to live reasonably close to how you live now? If you would have trouble, I would begin looking now.
* Are there other perks beside pay that make it a place that you want to work? What are the monitary value of the perks?
* Do you enjoy working there?
* How much could you reasonably expect to make if you had to find another job? Is what you're making now reasonable? If not, how much less are you worth to them (this is where the ego comes into play. be honest with yourself.)

I'm probably not the best person to be asking for advice, because using this method ensures that you make the safest choices all the time, which is bad in it's own way. I had a longer list, but I can't remember them now. If I do, I'll edit.
Getem
3/6/2006, 07:40 PM
This doesn't change the fact that management has the pilots by the balls. ;)

Yeah... but when the airlines are making money again, the BALLS WILL EXPLODE IN THEIR HANDS!!! RIGHT IN THEIR HANDS!!!!