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View Full Version : So, any comments on the renaming of the new "racist" Houston soccer franchise?


TheHumanAlphabet
3/6/2006, 10:53 AM
Apparently, after much research, the old San Jose (I think) MSL team is moving to Houston and calling themselves the Houston 1863. Apparently using numbers in team names is a soccer tradition. I don't get it, but then I hate soccer. Anyway, after an extended overseas trip, I find that the Houston 1863 is a racist name with the hispanics in an uproar because they think the name is racist. 1863 refers to the founding on Texas and the whoopass planted on Santa Ana here in Houston to win independence. Just because we whooped up on someone, how is that racist? Can anyone enlighten. Its funny, the only thing I saw was a small blurb in the chron, I never heard of this so-called uproar. :rcmad:
Hatfield
3/6/2006, 10:57 AM
don't know about racist, but it is definitely insensitive to the other fine years in our nation's history.
Beef
3/6/2006, 10:58 AM
I read about that a few weeks ago. I was waiting for the soocer or futbol forum to post about it. I think it's silly to get offended by it since the Hispanic people are living in Texas, but at the same time, it's not smart to offend your target audience from a business standpoint.
Harry Beanbag
3/6/2006, 10:59 AM
Do you mean 1836?
Okla-homey
3/6/2006, 10:59 AM
You mean 1836 right? In 1863 texass was a Confederate state embroiled in the Civil War and getting its arse handed to it at Gettysburg and Vicksburg.

just saying.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/6/2006, 11:06 AM
You mean 1836 right? In 1863 texass was a Confederate state embroiled in the Civil War and getting its arse handed to it at Gettysburg and Vicksburg.

just saying.

Yeah, 1836. Shows how much I care about soccer. I haven't had my coffee yet.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/6/2006, 11:09 AM
I read about that a few weeks ago. I was waiting for the soocer or futbol forum to post about it. I think it's silly to get offended by it since the Hispanic people are living in Texas, but at the same time, it's not smart to offend your target audience from a business standpoint.

Yet, I fail to find where it would be insensitive. Is it becuase Mexico had it and lost it? This is texas for Christ's sake, they won independence. This isn't New New Mexico or something like that.

I wonder what would happen if ICE showed up at the soccer game?
mdklatt
3/6/2006, 11:10 AM
Just because we whooped up on someone, how is that racist?

I have no idea, because plenty of Hispanics fought for Texas against Mexico.
critical_phil
3/6/2006, 11:11 AM
1836, 1837 - whatever it takes.......
crawfish
3/6/2006, 11:14 AM
They should be happy we got texas. Just think how much farther their people would've had to walk to get illegal jobs.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/6/2006, 11:14 AM
When I first heard the name, I thought it was gay. Then I thought, what an interesting nod to history and how the Houston area played a part in the founding of Texas. Now we have are worried whether (granted probably the largest segment of the game going population) a certain group will be offended. Well, this is Texas, they used to be proud once, before all this PC moved in... Just sayin'
Tear Down This Wall
3/6/2006, 11:25 AM
My wife's Mexican and could care less what the average Mexican thinks. She's looking forward to the day when she becomes an American citizen. Mexico is sucking, and most Mexicans know it. That's why they come to America, fellas.
Palermo10
3/6/2006, 12:04 PM
First of all, it's MLS.

Second, it's 1836. That was the year Houston became a city, and thus the new owners of the franchise (who moved it from San Jose) wanted to capitalize on something unique to the city, rather than your boring, cliche American nicknames "Lone Stars" "Astros" etc etc...
However 1836 is also the year Texas defeated Mexico for independence. So many Tejanos (the exact group that the new owners are trying to reach out to) see 1836 and think of it as a shot at Mexicans.

But THAlphabet I'm glad you "hate" soccer - seeing as how thats a pretty strong word. You'd think with all the traveling you seem do you might open up and at least appreciate why people appreciate it. Recall you are a minority in that sense.

I actually like the name 1836. It sure beats the "San Jose Earthquakes" or any other lame Americanized name we can come up with that lacks any meaning whatsoever. They apparently did a poll before they announced the name and the percentage of people that would be offended was "in the single digits." But clearly the Latin media in Houston have latched onto it.

How about they buy season tickets and support the team for a year or two, and then they can have their say. Hell, the team hasnt even played a game yet.
Tear Down This Wall
3/6/2006, 12:12 PM
1836 - Texas declared its independence
1848 - Texas won its independence
mdklatt
3/6/2006, 12:13 PM
But clearly the Latin media in Houston have latched onto it.


Their ignorant asses should take a field trip San Antonio and see all the Hispanic names on the list of people who died in the Alamo.
Okla-homey
3/6/2006, 12:26 PM
FWIW, the history is pretty compelling that if the Mexican government had not repealled their Constitution of 1824 and the dictator Santa Anna had not come to power, the Texicans (both anglo and latino) would probably have been quite content to remain part of Mexico.

The d00ds at the Alamo felt so strongly about that 1824 Mexican constitution that they kept the colors of the Mexican flag and put 1824 on their flag as a sign to the world that they were fighting a totalitarian regime, not per se mexican authority over texicans.

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6854/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz11.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
BeetDigger
3/6/2006, 12:50 PM
don't know about racist, but it is definitely insensitive to the other fine years in our nation's history.

I think that they are trying to find something very specific to Texas. I suppose naming them 1776 or 1492 just seems too self-centered.
NormanPride
3/6/2006, 12:52 PM
You know, I hated Texas history when I had to take it in HS. Now I hate this thread. I just might hate Houston, it's damn team, and all of MLS because of this name. It offends me that much.
Palermo10
3/6/2006, 12:55 PM
Apparently they just changed the name today... Houston Dynamo

Wow, thats pretty f*cking retarded if you ask me. And these f*cking Mexicans probably wont even go to games

http://houston.mlsnet.com/hou/imgs/header/header_logo.gif
Palermo10
3/6/2006, 12:57 PM
You know, I hated Texas history when I had to take it in HS. Now I hate this thread. I just might hate Houston, it's damn team, and all of MLS because of this name. It offends me that much.

Well if anything, it gives you more reason to go to PHP in Frisco and root for FC Dallas when Houston comes to town. And I will not stop you from hurling toilet paper on the field, or bags of urine for that matter.

I know I'll make the road trip to LA later this year - after all, they are just San Jose in disguse.. :cool:
slickdawg
3/6/2006, 12:57 PM
What is worse, the NBA or MLS?
Palermo10
3/6/2006, 01:00 PM
What is worse, the NBA or MLS?

And you've been to how many games of each?

Inflated salaries, no defense, egos, and more commercials than you have time to go to the kitchen for. NBA is a shadow of what it used to be.
slickdawg
3/6/2006, 01:09 PM
And you've been to how many games of each?

Inflated salaries, no defense, egos, and more commercials than you have time to go to the kitchen for. NBA is a shadow of what it used to be.

None, for reasons you've just cited.

The NBA is worthless to me because of those egos, attitudes, etc.

MLS isn't appealing to me, just because I have no interest in soccer. That's
me, I'm sure some folks love soccer.
Palermo10
3/6/2006, 01:21 PM
Outside of the game itself, MLS is well structured (although oddly) and does not have the outrageous salaries of the NBA (for so little accomplished). MJ was commenting I think last week about how players no longer had to work for their million dollar paychecks.

The top salary in MLS is $900,000 (shared by I believe 4 players), while the minimum is still only about $35k.
soonerscuba
3/6/2006, 01:44 PM
I think Texas should be part of Mexico, but for reasons unrelated to race or soccer.
slickdawg
3/6/2006, 01:56 PM
Outside of the game itself, MLS is well structured (although oddly) and does not have the outrageous salaries of the NBA (for so little accomplished). MJ was commenting I think last week about how players no longer had to work for their million dollar paychecks.

The top salary in MLS is $900,000 (shared by I believe 4 players), while the minimum is still only about $35k.

60 minutes had a piece on a kid - Freddie?? , a 16 year old that made the
jump to MLS, and I think he's in that top-end group. That kid is
extremely talented.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/6/2006, 02:11 PM
Well, its the Dynamo now...The Chron Story (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3703868.html)

Palmero,

I think soccer is slow and boring. I am an American football fan and will always be. I may have to go to kids soccer game when I have children, but I will never like the game. How people think it is exciting, I don't get it. The game is hours of boredom intermixed with a few seconds of excitement (IMO). I'm glad you like the sport. I just don't...
mdklatt
3/6/2006, 02:22 PM
I like football, but change this:


The game is hours of boredom intermixed with a few seconds of excitement

To this:


The game is hours of setting up the next play, time-outs, commercials, replays, etc. intermixed with a few seconds of excitement

...and you've just described football.

Any sport is boring if you don't understand it, and most Americans don't understand soccer.
TheHumanAlphabet
3/6/2006, 02:32 PM
Okay, I'm not trying to change people's minds that like soccer. But, I think kickball would be more fun to watch than soccer. My complaint about soccer, the pitch is too big. A smaller pitch may make the game more fun to watch.

TV has ruined American football, no doubt.

Was LULAC involved in the uproar over the Houston name?
Sooner_Havok
3/6/2006, 02:37 PM
I played soccer as a kid, and I still don't like it. I understand it, I just don't like it. And to all those people who say that Americans need to embrace soccer because it is an international sport, and because football is barbaric...After Pittsburgh won the super bowl, were there massive riots? Did Austin burn after the short horns won? The game of soccer is slow and boring, and the fans look for reasons to riot. But hey, at least you can go a whole season without losing, or winning for that matter. (0-0-16) Everyone likes ties right? No one loses in a tie...
Harry Beanbag
3/6/2006, 02:47 PM
Outside of the game itself, MLS is well structured (although oddly) and does not have the outrageous salaries of the NBA (for so little accomplished). MJ was commenting I think last week about how players no longer had to work for their million dollar paychecks.

The top salary in MLS is $900,000 (shared by I believe 4 players), while the minimum is still only about $35k.


That's because there's no demand for the sport. I'm sure the players wouldn't have a problem pulling down $15 million a year, it's not some holy crusade they're on to prove to their 12 fans that it's an unspoiled by greed sport they play because they love it.
TUSooner
3/6/2006, 03:33 PM
1836 - Texas declared its independence
1848 - Texas won its independence
How do you figure that? Texas became a state in 1845, as I recall from Homey's fine "Good Morning" on Sam Houston.

And by the way, the number in European teams' names usually means the date their CLUB was founded, like Germany's "Hannover [18]96" or "Mainz [19]05" I believe.
Harry Beanbag
3/6/2006, 04:09 PM
The Battle of San Jacinto was in April 1836, only a month or so after the end of the Alamo siege. That was the decisive battle that secured the Texian's independence and led to the capture of Santa Ana from what I remember. So I'm not sure what 1848 means either.
NormanPride
3/6/2006, 05:21 PM
I don't really mind "soccer" as much as most, but I still prefer American Football's precision and teamwork. Sure, you have both in "soccer" but not to the extent of American Football (probably a function of the number of people on the field at a time, but whatever).

And for those who bash the NBA - become Spurs/Pistons/Hornets fans. More D, less 'tude.
GrapevineSooner
3/6/2006, 05:25 PM
In other news,

British expatriates in Philadelphia plan to protest the Philadelphia 76'ers basketball team for what they consider to be a culturally insensitive nickname. ;)
BigRedJed
3/6/2006, 05:34 PM
DAMMIT Grapevine. Stole my joke. I guess the Patriots could be sued for the same thing.
C&CDean
3/6/2006, 05:41 PM
Hi Jed. How's it hanging?
BigRedJed
3/6/2006, 05:42 PM
Low.
BigRedJed
3/6/2006, 05:43 PM
And a little to the left.
Stoop Dawg
3/6/2006, 06:02 PM
Does the 4th of July **** off the Brits? If so, I say we celebrate it every day!
Stoop Dawg
3/6/2006, 06:03 PM
And as for "sports", baseball is the slowest, most boring "sport" on the face of the earth. How anyone watches that **** is beyond me.
Cam
3/6/2006, 07:33 PM
I don't really mind "soccer" as much as most, but I still prefer American Football's precision and teamwork. Sure, you have both in "soccer" but not to the extent of American Football (probably a function of the number of people on the field at a time, but whatever).
Um, how to answer this in a nice way???

Both sports have the same amount of players on the field at the same time.

My only complaint with the MLS is that it's loaded with players that would have a hard time making the 2nd division clube in Europe, yet they still consider themselves top flight players. If that were the case, they wouldn't be playing in the States for a league that has a very low salary cap.
BajaOklahoma
3/6/2006, 08:13 PM
This thread cracks me up.
As a parent who was clueless about soccer until my kids started playing, I understand where most of you are coming from.
There are set plays in both soccer and hockey, it's just harder for the noobs to see them than in football. I would be happy to go to either a soccer game or a hockey game and explain it to you. How can you not appreciate the precision of a pass that is put to the feet or stick of a teammate, while they are in the middle of a pack of defenders? The series of passes that getting the ball/puck down the pitch/rink or the player who takes it on a breakaway to shoot on goal.

The numbers are usually the year the club was established in the pros or the year of birth for the youth teams (Sting Blue '87).
jrsooner
3/6/2006, 08:24 PM
I think it's silly to get offended by it since the Hispanic people are living in Texas, but at the same time, it's not smart to offend your target audience from a business standpoint.I liked the name....after awhile it sticks with you... but since it seems like 1/2 of houston would rather raise Mexico flags instead of the Stars and Stripes.

http://images.chron.com/photos/2006/03/06/1276490/image-custom.jpg
Looks like Texaco paid them lots of money for the star. :)

Dynamo???? they crack me up!
trwxxa
3/6/2006, 08:53 PM
Does the 4th of July **** off the Brits? If so, I say we celebrate it every day!

Or does Cinco de Mayo *** off the French?

Of course, they have no problems having Cinco de Mayo parades in Houston. I'm trying to get the French consulate to file a protest, but you know how they are. :rolleyes:
Okla-homey
3/6/2006, 09:12 PM
Indians (feather not dot) don't like Columbus Day or the Washington Redskins.

French don't like Oktoberfest.

Ex-patriate Irish snakes hate St Paddy's Day.

Diversity and tolerance don't apply when it comes to dead white guys. Everybody has a "issue" these days. I wish we could all just get along.
Penguin
3/6/2006, 09:21 PM
Basketball is the most boring sport on earth. 39 minutes and 45 minutes of boredom, then 15 seconds of somewhat excitement.
TUSooner
3/6/2006, 10:01 PM
This thread cracks me up.
As a parent who was clueless about soccer until my kids started playing, I understand where most of you are coming from.
There are set plays in both soccer and hockey, it's just harder for the noobs to see them than in football. I would be happy to go to either a soccer game or a hockey game and explain it to you. How can you not appreciate the precision of a pass that is put to the feet or stick of a teammate, while they are in the middle of a pack of defenders? The series of passes that getting the ball/puck down the pitch/rink or the player who takes it on a breakaway to shoot on goal.

The numbers are usually the year the club was established in the pros or the year of birth for the youth teams (Sting Blue '87).

Soccer has a few set plays, true, but the spontaneity and room for creativity is what makes it so good.
I'll watch American Football any time and love it, but one of its drawbacks is its "precision" and the time needed to set up each play (and the committee meetings by the zebras, and.... )
BajaOklahoma
3/6/2006, 10:37 PM
Don't start on the refs for soccer. Half of them don't know how to call offsides.
Stoop Dawg
3/6/2006, 11:33 PM
Basketball is the most boring sport on earth. 39 minutes and 45 minutes of boredom, then 15 seconds of somewhat excitement.

When does the excitement happen in baseball?

Never, that's when.
Ruuuuuufus
3/6/2006, 11:48 PM
They should be happy we got texas. Just think how much farther their people would've had to walk to get illegal jobs.

If Texas was still a part of Mexico, Oklahoma would have a much better road and highway infrastructure.