call me Scrooge, but just how much free lodging is enough?

[Okla-homey]

I think six months is plenty, apparently lots of folks think it isn't.


Texas: Katrina evacuees face end of FEMA-paid hotel stays
By PAUL J. WEBER Associated Press
3/2/2006

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8850/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz19.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Donna Francis, 39, of Silsbee, Texas, waits Wednesday at the front desk of the Best Value Inn in Beaumont, Texas, to hear whether she got an extension from the FEMA hotel program for Hurricane Katrina victims. Wednesday was the last day for FEMA to pay for hotel rooms, unless extensions were granted

BEAUMONT, Texas -- Donna Francis pressed a pile of FEMA paperwork and phone numbers to her chest as the minutes slipped away in the lobby of the Best Value Inn.

"Hopefully I can go pull a rabbit out of my hat," said Francis, a victim of Hurricane Rita, as she waited to plead to her Federal Emergency Management Agency caseworker an hour before six months of government-paid hotel rooms ended.

The single mother was among hurricane evacuees in nearly 3,000 hotel rooms across the country Wednesday who were confronted with a choice they had long dreaded: either remain in the hotel and pay the bill with their own money or other federal assistance, or check out and find a new place to live.

The deadline sparked protests in at least one city.

It was the last day FEMA directly paid hotel bills for many evacuees outside Louisiana and Mississippi. Storm victims in about 7,400 hotel rooms in those two hard-hit states have been granted another extension through at least March 15.

FEMA has spent half a billion dollars on hotel rooms in a program that has been extended several times. At the program's peak, FEMA was paying for 85,000 rooms at one time, but it has been scaled back in phases over the past month.

Not all evacuees had to turn in their hotel room keys Wednesday. Those who qualified for individual assistance were free to use that money to pay for their hotel rooms, and FEMA granted some extensions under special circumstances.

In San Antonio, six families of Hurricane Katrina evacuees protested outside their hotel hours before their FEMA-paid rooms were set to expire. They complained that they would have to go to a shelter.

Shortly after noon in Atlanta, Dwayne McLain rolled the last of his possessions out of the hotel he has called home for four months.

McLain, 23, was fortunate enough to find a car and a job in Atlanta, but he has yet to find permanent housing. He plans to stay with friends for a couple of weeks while he continues to look for an apartment -- or go back to New Orleans.

"My apartment got flattened, but lots of my friends are down there working," he said.

Separately, hundreds of evacuees who have been living on two cruise ships in New Orleans -- mostly police officers and firefighters displaced by the hurricane -- had to begin clearing out, while people on a third vessel in St. Bernard Parish sued in an attempt to stay put. The ships are being put back into private service.

[OUDoc]

My parents didn't completely get rid of me for 25 years. That seems reasonable. :D

[Harry Beanbag]

No comment.

[Hamhock]

Why do you hate people who want to live off of other taxpayers and take no responsibility for their own well being? Oh wait..

[12]

They have had more than enough time to move along.

Still, what did you expect?

[Hamhock]

Here's what I expected:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0214061katrina1.html

[Hatfield]

i think if you already have a home you think it is plenty long enough.

and if you have no home to go to you think it isn't long enough.

[1stTimeCaller]

I lived in a 1985 Carri Lite 5th wheel travel trailer for three years. I hated that thing after the third day. Move these people into 5th wheels and they will want to move out ASAP.

[jeremy885]

i think if you already have a home you think it is plenty long enough.

and if you have no home to go to you think it isn't long enough.


How hard is it to rent an apartment?

[12]

Well, lack of a job can be a problem in the process.

[12]

That said, I know illegals who can't sign there name... but they sure stay busy.

[Harry Beanbag]

i think if you already have a home you think it is plenty long enough.

and if you have no home to go to you think it isn't long enough.


That's the problem. I would bet that most of these people still living in the government paid hotel rooms were living in government paid housing back in New Orleans. They don't know anything else.

[IB4OU2]

How hard is it to rent an apartment?

How hard is it to rent a van down by the river?

[jeremy885]

Well, lack of a job can be a problem in the process.

The 23 year old didn't have a problem finding one and a car too. In six months, you can find something.

[jeremy885]

That's the problem. I would bet that most of these people still living in the government paid hotel rooms were living in government paid housing back in New Orleans. They don't know anything else.


Then this should be a nice wake up call.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Well when your entire life has been on the government teat, pretty hard. Most of these people have never had a job, don't plan to get jobs and don't want to work...My african-american friends here have no sympathy for these people as well. Why woudl someone who has worked hard for their life, want people to welch more on the taxes they have to pay...

NPR had a great story. They probably thought they were continuing the hand wringing New Orleans Katrina story and how we aren't doing enough for them. Instead, the person they were interviewing who was rebuilding houses was saying he would love to hire N.O residents so they would come back and rebuild their city. Instead, he was describing how they didn't want to work, wouldn't climb a ladder and just didn't want to work hard and left the job sites after a day. On the other hand, he was amazed when a large crew of Brazilians showed up and wanted to work. They were humping it and he was impressed at their work ethic. He said he was learning Portuguese and that he hope people like this would stay in N.O.

[BeetDigger]

That said, I know illegals who can't sign there name... but they sure stay busy.


And not only busy, but they stay well fed and somehow seem to find housing.

[SoonerWood]

Those that can't get situated to be self sufficient in 6 months of free housing most likely won't be any more self sufficient in 6 years of free housing.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Part of the problem is that the policies from FEMA kept changing, but I have probably said more than I need to on a message board about the topic.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I wonder how long it will be before some hotel/motel owners complain to the government about damages. On the news down here, they've shown some rooms that were trashed by the Katrina people.

Also, I agree about the comment regarding illegals and jobs. How is it that people with no legal identification have jobs, but people from New Orleans can't "find" work? Also, why aren't the Mississippi people displaced by Katrina having the same problem "finding" work.

This whole idea of having to "find" work is absurd. Especially in Texas. You can't drive 100 feet without seeing some place with a "help wanted" sign in it.

Please don't try to get me to believe all of these Katrina people were executives who can't get similar positions. I've been to New Orleans several times and know that the people from the flooded areas were not living in the greatest areas to begin with.

So, if you worked at KFC in New Orleans, there's no reason you can't work at KFC in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, etc. And, if you were living off the government dole, there is no better time than now to start over with your life and get a job.

Really, it's getting extremely old. Sorry for those who live outside of Texas, but the news of it down here is just tiring. This is a state with many jobs like these people had in New Orleans...just go get one already and quit screwing around!

[Jimminy Crimson]

We should send all these people to Mexico! :texan:

[Tear Down This Wall]

We should send all these people to Mexico! :texan:

True, they could stand around at the PEMEX stations waiting for people to gas up their cars. It's like the 1950s down there with gas stations, man.

[slickdawg]

I wonder how long it will be before some hotel/motel owners complain to the government about damages. On the news down here, they've shown some rooms that were trashed by the Katrina people.

Also, I agree about the comment regarding illegals and jobs. How is it that people with no legal identification have jobs, but people from New Orleans can't "find" work? Also, why aren't the Mississippi people displaced by Katrina having the same problem "finding" work.

This whole idea of having to "find" work is absurd. Especially in Texas. You can't drive 100 feet without seeing some place with a "help wanted" sign in it.

Please don't try to get me to believe all of these Katrina people were executives who can't get similar positions. I've been to New Orleans several times and know that the people from the flooded areas were not living in the greatest areas to begin with.

So, if you worked at KFC in New Orleans, there's no reason you can't work at KFC in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, etc. And, if you were living off the government dole, there is no better time than now to start over with your life and get a job.

Really, it's getting extremely old. Sorry for those who live outside of Texas, but the news of it down here is just tiring. This is a state with many jobs like these people had in New Orleans...just go get one already and quit screwing around!

While I can completely relate with people on the total destruction down here,
I have to agree - it's time to move on. Be it here, Dallas, Atlanta, wherever.

I've got a good friend that owns a bar/grille on the Mississippi coast.
He's had more trouble keeping people working that you can imagine.

The general consensus from most of the quitters is they were "doing better
not working".

As my friend put it "If the governemnt would quit giving out handouts,
people might be inclined to get off their a55e5 and work!"

[Okla-homey]

I'd be interested in hearing TUSooner's take on this.

[Palermo10]

With all the money being wasted in so many other ways... it's amazing how everyone can be like vultures on prey in this situation.

We spend $30 billion a month in one country for somebody else's people/infrastructure and money going to our own citizens for housing after their homes were destroyed by a hurricane is somehow inherently wrong, be it 3 months or 6.

Whatever their situations may be, whether they should go back to work, can go back to work, want to go back to work, whatever... the reactions are just amazing... Thats all. Carry on.

Oh - and as for the Mexicans and Brazilians... Discovery Channel tells me New Orleans will become/is becoming a huge Latino area because of jobs and how nobody seems to live there anymore. I believe it. Just one more place to go for good tacos al pastor.

[Okla-homey]

We spend $30 billion a month in one country for somebody else's people/infrastructure and money going to our own citizens for housing after their homes were destroyed by a hurricane is somehow inherently wrong, be it 3 months or 6.



My friend, the difference is, these people live in America where you practically have to deliberately avoid a job in order to be unemployed.
Thus, I have no sympathy for anyone who claims they can't have finageled a gig and an apartment with six freaking months notice.

Sheesh.

[slickdawg]

There was no FEMA to help with the recovery from hurricanes Betsy
and Camille, but somehow we got by.

I'm just sayin'

[SoonerBorn68]

I lived in a 1985 Carri Lite 5th wheel travel trailer for three years. I hated that thing after the third day. Move these people into 5th wheels and they will want to move out ASAP.

EXACTLY. I live in an RV about 20 days a month. I'm currently having to share a rather small trailer with the other guy out here. It's the succ.

[SoonerBorn68]

I wonder how long it will be before some hotel/motel owners complain to the government about damages. On the news down here, they've shown some rooms that were trashed by the Katrina people.



I was down in Houston back in November for a training class & stayed at one of the local hotels. I noticed a whole bunch of people just hanging around all the time & asked the desk clerk what was up. He said they were all Katrina victims & was hoping they would leave soon. He also said that many of the rooms were trashed, ie, holes in walls, carpet pulled up, TV's stolen.

There were several vans being shuttled in & I asked if they were taking the people to find jobs. No, he said, the vans are taking them to the mall. :eek:

I had to be in class at 8:00 am & would leave the hotel at about 7:30...I didn't see a soul. At 6:30 when I returned it was like Marti Gras, only there was more booze.

[Penguin]

That said, I know illegals who can't sign there name... but they sure stay busy.

I will never make fun of illegals and I will never make a blanket statement to "ship them back." The day laborers in Houston are hard workers and send most of their money back to their poor families in Mexico, Honduras, etc. A co-worker of mine decided to fill in his pool. He picked up some day laborers to destroy it and fill it in. He had to make a point to go out there and force them to take a break every now and then. They were working so hard and so fast that he was worried for their health. After I hear stories like this, I say that we should take those Minutemen idiots and ship them back to their redneck trailer parks. Most of the Mexicans coming in illegally aren't looking for a welfare check or a handout. They're looking for work and they're getting work.

[slickdawg]

Penguin - you speak the truth. Thanks to the hard working Mexicans here
on the Mississippi coast, many people have a roof over their head again, they have sheet rock on their walls, and a glimmer of hope.

Unfortunately, many "white men" are abusing these hard working and the victims by gouging for repairs and paying little to nothing to the workers.

I salute and thank the Mexican workers for their help. Were it not for them,
Mississippi would be much worse off.

[SoonerBorn68]

All three shifts of ruff necks out here on our rig are Mexican. The company we're working for checks for Visa or SS numbers so I'll assume they're legal...but they are about the hard workin'est bunch I've seen. If I go up on the rig floor at night they always offer some of their food. They're all nice guys but we basically have to use hand signals to communicate.

[Palermo10]

I will never make fun of illegals and I will never make a blanket statement to "ship them back." The day laborers in Houston are hard workers and send most of their money back to their poor families in Mexico, Honduras, etc. A co-worker of mine decided to fill in his pool. He picked up some day laborers to destroy it and fill it in. He had to make a point to go out there and force them to take a break every now and then. They were working so hard and so fast that he was worried for their health. After I hear stories like this, I say that we should take those Minutemen idiots and ship them back to their redneck trailer parks. Most of the Mexicans coming in illegally aren't looking for a welfare check or a handout. They're looking for work and they're getting work.


From what I read a while back, money coming to Mexico from the United States is the 2nd biggest source of income for the country behind petroleum. Once you have gone to Mexico... and I don't mean Cancun, Acapulco, etc, you can appreciate why they come to the US to find work.

The "minimum wage" in Mexico is $4.75... per day. If somebody can find work in California for less than the state's minimum wage of $6.75 per hour, then they are doing great for themselves.

$700 got me by on 6 weeks worth in Mexico, and that included two trips to Puerto Vallarta, countless clubs, etc.

Which is why I am glad Mexico is establishing relations with China (I know, another thread), whereby Mexico can continue to grow their oil output and production, and hopefully move an economy that has done nothing but grow stagnant since the early 1980s.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I will never make fun of illegals and I will never make a blanket statement to "ship them back." The day laborers in Houston are hard workers and send most of their money back to their poor families in Mexico, Honduras, etc. A co-worker of mine decided to fill in his pool. He picked up some day laborers to destroy it and fill it in. He had to make a point to go out there and force them to take a break every now and then. They were working so hard and so fast that he was worried for their health. After I hear stories like this, I say that we should take those Minutemen idiots and ship them back to their redneck trailer parks. Most of the Mexicans coming in illegally aren't looking for a welfare check or a handout. They're looking for work and they're getting work.

Mostly agree with you. We need to figure out a guest worker program, that tracks people, allows them to stay legally for a brief period and requires they return home for a period, and I would also think, make it extremely hard for the guest workers to become US citizens, and prevent their children born in the U.S. from being citizens. That old law is not needed now...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

From what I read a while back, money coming to Mexico from the United States is the 2nd biggest source of income for the country behind petroleum. Once you have gone to Mexico... and I don't mean Cancun, Acapulco, etc, you can appreciate why they come to the US to find work.

Which is why I am glad Mexico is establishing relations with China (I know, another thread), whereby Mexico can continue to grow their oil output and production, and hopefully move an economy that has done nothing but grow stagnant since the early 1980s.

Well that and elimination of the rempant corruption in the government, military and elsewhere. Mexico will never be anything until they eliminate the corruption and get rid of the drug/human traffickers.

[Okla-homey]

We need to figure out a guest worker program, that tracks people, allows them to stay legally for a brief period and requires they return home for a period, ...

I agree. We clearly need their labor but they should at least sign our "guest book" at the border.



and I would also think, make it extremely hard for the guest workers to become US citizens, and prevent their children born in the U.S. from being citizens. That old law is not needed now...

I disagree. IMHO, Citizenship should not be any harder for them than anyone else. Doing otherwise could be construed as latent racism and latent racism is bad. I'm not saying you are racist because you feel that way, I'm just saying it would be perceived that way and unfortunately in our society today, perception = reality for most folks.

Also, Born here should = citizenship. While I understand your concern and don't allege you have any agenda other than to help stem the tide of illegal immigration, once you start tinkering with "born here = citizen," where do we stop? Only children born to property owning citizens in this country are citizens?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Gee, a frank discussion...surprise!

The born here = citizenship was initiated in times were the U.S. had large expanse of space and no one to fill it (I believe). Such is not the case today. There are many people who cross the border illegally have children in the U.S. and then go back. This activitiy should not be allowed (IMO). Other than opening the child to the U.S. system (health care, schools, etc.) there is little or no attempt to assimulate into the culture or participate in activities of citizenship. Hence, I am dubious of allowing guest workers to have citizenship (see Germany and Turkish problems). I do think that we need to require them to leave the U.S. on some periodic basis (every 2 or 5 years) to have credentials renewed and re-evaluated. I think it should be hard for them to get U.S. citizenship, as if there is no teeth in it, then the assumption will be people will be granted retroactive status (can't think of the word I'm looking for...) and the country will be flooded with people thinking if they are here, they can get citizenship. Our immigration laws are a farce, it is harder to get into most every country in the world than ours (i.e., New Zealand, Australia, Japan, Korea, Russia, Angola, U.K., Columbia, Argentina, Peru...to name a few I've been to).

I understand the reluctance, as where is the line drawn...Perhaps the line could be those born in the U.S. of legally entered and legal residents on the U.S. or those intending to or have applied for citizenship...

[Okla-homey]

First off, we'd have to repeal the XIV amendment which states born here = citizen. As a minimum, you'd need a brand new amendment saying only persons born in the US to a parent (or parents?) who had applied for citizenship and were here legally are citizens. As you'll recall from civics class, that would take a 2/3 majority in both houses of Congress AND 3/4's of the states would have to ratify. Good luck with that.;)

Don't forget this though. Another reason we grant citizenship by birth in the US is because it is a term of international treaties to which the US is a signatory. Once the Senate approves and the prez signs, its a done deal and thus the law of the land. Thus, we probably can't unilaterally change without violating a treaty which per our constitution has force of law.

Anyway, remember, 1868 when the XIV was passed was after the "Manifest Destiny" dealio you allude to had run its course. We already stretched "from sea to shining sea" so even taking into account the intent of the framers of that amendment, you'd prolly come up short arguing that the idea had outlived its utility. Those guys wanted to ensure former slaves were made citizens. Thus, I think it could be argued persuasively that a child born in the US of one here illegally has just as much right to citizenship as a person born here that was illiterate, had no job skills and had previously been considered someone's personal property.

[mdklatt]

Another reason we grant citizenship by birth in the US is because it is a term of international treaties to which the US is a signatory. Once the Senate approves and the prez signs, its a done deal and thus the law of the land. Thus, we probably can't unilaterally change without violating a treaty which per our constitution has force of law.


We're not so good with the international treaties lately, so let's not let that minor detail stop us. :D

How many other countries give automatic citizenship to children born there? I think that just causes more trouble than it's worth nowadays, especially with our lax border security.

[Okla-homey]

We're not so good with the international treaties lately, so let's not let that minor detail stop us. :D

How many other countries give automatic citizenship to children born there? I think that just causes more trouble than it's worth nowadays, especially with our lax border security.

Doesn't matter about the treaties really, the Constitutional obstacle posed by the XIV amendment to changing the status quo on "native birth = citizen" is absolutely insurmountable IMHO. I just threw the treaty part in for extra points.;)

[Palermo10]

I think its ridiculous I need a passport to come back from Mexico now. The last 2 years I've been able to just walk across, come back show my DL, and I'm back. Who the hell carries their passport around with them to go get tacos???