In case of a three way tie, what are the Big XII seedings? [Archive]

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SoonerShark

3/1/2006, 10:19 PM

If KU loses to KSU at Manhatten, and UT loses in Austin to OU on Sunday, it will be a three way tie for the championship. UT holds the head to head tie breaker against KU. KU holds it over us, like we held it over them in a two way tie last year. We would hold it over UT. What happens next for seedings?

The bad thing is that we will have to play the late game on the Friday night game as a third seed in the Big XII tourney if the seeds hold as they do right now. Too bad CU did not show up in the first half tonight against KU.

NUSooner

3/1/2006, 10:23 PM

KU 1
OU 2
texas 3

You break the tie in division first (despite the fact that there are none in basketball) and then head to head with the team from the other division. In this case, we beat Texas twice and lost to the North squad, so we get second.

NickZeppelin

3/1/2006, 10:24 PM

I've read the Big 12 tiebreaker rules and all it makes me is crosseyed. I think Kansas gets it but the rules aren't really good at explaining it. Win Saturday and we finish ahead of Texas that's all that really matters. We still have to win the Big 12 Tourney to win the Big 12 Title anyway.

oumartin

3/1/2006, 10:33 PM

Kelvin was head saying if they all end up tied that OU would be the #1 seed.

OUGreg723

3/1/2006, 10:35 PM

WE MUST WIN ON SUNDAY!!

NickZeppelin

3/1/2006, 10:37 PM

Here are the Big 12 Tiebreaker rules

4.2 Tiebreakers. The first criteria in the breaking of ties in the standings shall be head-to-head competition of tied teams. The following procedure will be used to establish the tournament seeds if ties exist. (For tie-breaking procedures teams will be grouped in two divisions based upon established guidelines. Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Nebraska are in one division and Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech are in the other division.)

(a) If two teams are tied and they are from different divisions, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the higher seed.
(b) If two teams are tied and they are from the same division, the team with an advantage in head-to-head competition shall be the higher seed.

(c) If two teams remain tied, there will be a comparison of overall record against division teams only (10 divisional games).

(d) If two teams remain tied, there will be a *comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the division and proceeding through in order of divisional record.

(e) If two teams remain tied, there will be a *comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the opposite division and proceeding through in order of divisional record.

(f) If two teams remain tied, the higher seed will be chosen by draw.

(g) If three or more teams are tied, ties among divisional opponents will be broken first by using steps (b) through (f) and the head-to-head results will be used to break ties between non-divisional teams. When three or more teams from the same division are tied step (b) will consist of a mini-round robin among the tied teams. At any point during the process of breaking ties among three or more teams that the number of tied teams are reduced to two, head-to-head competition would be used as the primary tie-breaker, followed-by steps (c) through (f).

(*Note: When comparing against the 'highest' ranked team(s)' in either division, the comparison will be based upon how tied teams did against all teams in a given placement, rather than a team that wins a tiebreaker at another position. For example, if two teams are tied for fifth and two teams are tied for first, the head-to-head comparison would be how the fifth place teams did against the first place teams combined, and vice-versa.)

4.2.1 Draw. In the event tie-breaking procedures are unsuccessful and a draw is necessary in determining any portion of seeding, the following procedure will be used:
(a) The drawing will be conducted in public or with media attendance;
(b) Institutions involved in the drawing have the right to have a local representative in attendance at the drawing; and,
(c) A single slip of paper with names representing each of the tied institutions will be placed into a container and will be drawn in order of seeding from highest to lowest.

(Note: In the Big 12 seeding process, the highest seed is #1 and the lowest seed is #12.)

oumartin

3/1/2006, 10:38 PM

all i gotta say is it shouldn't have come down to sunday but it has so lets go kick their butt and take some names!

OUGreg723

3/1/2006, 10:39 PM

YEAH!!!

SoonerShark

3/1/2006, 10:39 PM

WE MUST WIN ON SUNDAY!!

And KSU must win on Saturday.

Would we rather play UT or KU (or the Cinderella team that beats them on Friday) in our bracket on Saturday if we are blessed enough to beat or first round foe in the tourney ?

NUSooner

3/1/2006, 10:39 PM

"(g) If three or more teams are tied, ties among divisional opponents will be broken first by using steps (b) through (f) and the head-to-head results will be used to break ties between non-divisional teams"

oumartin

3/1/2006, 10:40 PM

so, that loss to KU is even bigger if K-state beats them and OU beats Texas?

NUSooner

3/1/2006, 10:41 PM

And KSU must win on Saturday.

Would we rather play UT or KU (or the Cinderella team that beats them on Friday) in our bracket on Saturday if we are blessed enough to beat or first round foe in the tourney ?

Yeah, basically if we lose to Texas this week, we play KU on Saturday in the tourney...if we win, we play Texas in the tourney on Saturday.

OUGreg723

3/1/2006, 10:42 PM

3-0 vs. Texas would be very NEET!!

SoonerShark

3/1/2006, 10:44 PM

(a) If two teams are tied and they are from different divisions, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the higher seed. But there may be three if luck holds out and KSU wins Saturday.
(b) If two teams are tied and they are from the same division, the team with an advantage in head-to-head competition shall be the higher seed. Us over UT if we win on Sunday.

(c) If two teams remain tied, there will be a comparison of overall record against division teams only (10 divisional games). We are unbeaten in the South, but have lost four games out of six to the other division.

(d) If two teams remain tied, there will be a *comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the division and proceeding through in order of divisional record. I give up from here on out

(e) If two teams remain tied, there will be a *comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the opposite division and proceeding through in order of divisional record.

(f) If two teams remain tied, the higher seed will be chosen by draw.

(g) If three or more teams are tied, ties among divisional opponents will be broken first by using steps (b) through (f) and the head-to-head results will be used to break ties between non-divisional teams. When three or more teams from the same division are tied step (b) will consist of a mini-round robin among the tied teams. At any point during the process of breaking ties among three or more teams that the number of tied teams are reduced to two, head-to-head competition would be used as the primary tie-breaker, followed-by steps (c) through (f).

IronHorseSooner

3/1/2006, 11:13 PM

Simply, the KU/KSU game on Saturday will have no consequence on OU. Whether KU wins or loses, OU will be below them in the conference tourney. It becomes a matter if OU will be a 2 or a 3 in the conference tourney, and it will be about seeding in the Dallas Subregional. After losing to A&M, UT, right now, would be a 3, not a 2. They have losses to OSU and A&M that will keep them, definitely, from being a 1, and possibly a 2. If OU wins on Sunday, and does better than UT in the tourney, they should get the slot in Dallas. If UT wins, here are the seeds:

1. UT
2. KU
3. OU

If OU wins, again regardless of the KU/KSU outcome:

1. KU
2. OU
3. UT

SoonerShark

3/1/2006, 11:17 PM

SoonerShark

3/1/2006, 11:20 PM

I hate the schools that have basketball as its main sport such as KU, Duke, UNC, etc. Of course, they probably resent the UTs, OUs, OSUs (Ohio version), Floridas, etc. who are good at football and basketball most years.

shavedmarmoset

3/1/2006, 11:22 PM

Kelvin was head saying if they all end up tied that OU would be the #1 seed.

We lost the head-to-head with Kansas. They're automatically ahead of us if the records are identical.

IronHorseSooner

3/1/2006, 11:33 PM

UT would be behind KU though tied recordwise (and despite killing the Jayhawks children for generations last Saturday night) if there are three 12-4 teams?

Yes, because by the divisional tie-breaker with OU that must be taken first, that makes them automatically the #3 regardless of their win over KU....BTW, UT is a better match-up in the semis than is KU. I think that KU doesn't make it to the conference finals. Their match-up, assuming OU wins on Sunday, in the semis would be A&M, who has the longest current winning streak in the conference....Again, it would be sad that OU would SWEEP the South part of the conference, and not win it due to a lousy 2-4 against the North. Even though OU has won more than it's share of close games this year, the most inexcusable loss this season was against Mizzou. That's the game that will end up costing OU the regular season conference crown.

SoonerShark

3/1/2006, 11:58 PM

The NU loss was due to TE just bouncing the ball to NU's player in the last minute. He won us many more game, though.

kelloggOUballa

3/2/2006, 01:53 AM

hold up....why does KU take the three-way tie? Texas killed them

Frozen Sooner

3/2/2006, 01:59 AM

KU takes the three-way tie because ties between teams in the same division are broken first, then ties between teams in opposite divisions.

Since OU and Texas are in the same division, OU would win the tiebreaker over Texas, and Texas takes the #3 seed. Then KU would win the tiebreaker over OU due to the head-to-head win.

Should both Texas and KU win on Saturday, Texas is the #1 seed based on the H2H win over KU.

Frozen Sooner

3/2/2006, 02:02 AM

Though come to think of it, the rules could be read to mean that OU would win the tiebreaker vs. UT and thus be the #1 seed, then UT would win the tiebreak vs. KU and be the #2 seed.

kelloggOUballa

3/2/2006, 02:19 AM

yea its confusing to me

Rock Hard Corn Frog

3/2/2006, 10:16 AM

The way I read it we are no better than the #2 seed regardless. Though honestly if we win and KSU beats KU we SHOULD be the #1 seed, justification being OU,TEX and KU would have the same record and the round robin records of the 3 teams would be OU 2-1, KU 1-1, Tex 1-2.

Still the seeding is one thing but remember that we were the #1 seed last year but KU was able to claim a co-Big 12 Championship. Our claim wouldn't be any less legit.

NickZeppelin

3/2/2006, 10:29 AM

I don't care about Big 12 Championships unless you win the Big 12 Tourney. Do we claim a Big 12 Championship in 2003 after losing to KSU? Despite having a better record the KSU?

Rock Hard Corn Frog

3/2/2006, 10:39 AM

I don't care about Big 12 Championships unless you win the Big 12 Tourney. Do we claim a Big 12 Championship in 2003 after losing to KSU? Despite having a better record the KSU?

Both matter in basketball. I will take a 16-0 regular season conference record and a one and done in the conference tourney over a 10-6 4th place finish in the regular season and a conference tourney title. Conference tourney is important but the regular season is not ONLY about what seed you get in the conference tourney.