PDA

View Full Version : Thoughts on the OSU game,this season and next year.



stoopified
2/28/2006, 11:33 PM
First of all,how many times have we as fans said 1 or 100 a win is a win?The current squad has taken this to etremes but the point is still valid.As far as last nights game goes ,yes we barely won but that is more than the Horns can say about their last enconter with the Pokes.Likewise we beat a KSU team that won at KU and was just ONE point shy of UT as well.

We came nto this season picked to fight with KU and UT for the top three spots in the Big 12 and here we are.Personally I am dissapointed because I thought(and predicted) we would win the conference but losses tby 1 each to MU and NU stpped that goal.Still we have rallied to win 11 of 13 to rise from 0-2 to 11-4.IMHO I think we can and will win at UT.I could be wrong but that is my prediction.I also like our chances to at least reach the Big 12 Finals.

As for the NCAA i Won't make a prediction on that till after the Big 12 tourney is over and seeds,brackets set fo the NCAAs.

Looking to next season I am excited ,unless we are neutered by NCAA sanctions.Assuming that does NOT happen we will be young but VERY talented.The big difference between us next year and OSU this year is we will return more seasoned talent.While OSU only had Monds and Curry coming back we have Griffin,Longar,Carter ,Neal,Godbold,Johnson and possibly Walker(not that it is likely to matter). It is for this reason that I doubt we will have the fall off the Pokes had( I'm sorry Neon orange gang).They will be joined by what is touted as Sampsons' best class ever.James,Mayfield,Crockett(Crocker?),Clark and Reynolds were all heavily sought after.Barring NCAA hammer,the future is bright,I am thinking along the lines of Coales ' bunch after they added Courtney and Ashley.Well that is my thoughts,hopes and dreams on OU basketball anyway.

MojoRisen
3/1/2006, 10:14 AM
Could you purpose an 9 deep rotation for me with the new class comming in and our returning players?

I would like to see how we are filling holes- TE, Bookout and Gray oooch.

Scottie Point Johnson
Neal 2 guard Crocker
Carter 3 Goldbold
Griffen/Damion James 3-4 Clark
Mayfield/Longar 5

That is pretty Deep- Young - Please arrange accordingly...

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/1/2006, 10:57 AM
Could you purpose an 9 deep rotation for me with the new class comming in and our returning players?

I would like to see how we are filling holes- TE, Bookout and Gray oooch.

Scottie Point Johnson
Neal 2 guard Crocker
Carter 3 Goldbold
Griffen/Damion James 3-4 Clark
Mayfield/Longar 5

That is pretty Deep- Young - Please arrange accordingly...

That is pretty much how I see it. There is some question whether Clark will qualify or not though. Reynolds and Johnson are clearly going to be primary ball handlers. Longar and Mayfield will be 5's and then the line-up will be more interchangible. Clark's eligibility and Jame's ablility to handle the ball and shoot outside might be a factor in whether someone like Crocker redshirts. We certainly don't need an 11 player rotation.

soonervegas
3/1/2006, 11:04 AM
If Longar Longar is playing significant minutes next year we will be sitting at home in late March.

Sooner04
3/1/2006, 11:08 AM
http://sooner.nmn.speedera.net/pics30/200/AQ/AQVRIBXEYPRUBNL.20050825225639.jpg = http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38685000/jpg/_38685615_duran150.jpg

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/1/2006, 11:47 AM
If Longar Longar is playing significant minutes next year we will be sitting at home in late March.

Longar isn't Gray or McGee but I think his game is a pretty big step up from Hootie Wiley or Victor Avilla so I think he will do fine.

FroggyStyle22
3/1/2006, 12:40 PM
Longar isn't Gray or McGee but I think his game is a pretty big step up from Hootie Wiley or Victor Avilla so I think he will do fine.

Avilla yes but Wiley was underated. I'd take him back next year.

okienole3
3/1/2006, 12:48 PM
Avilla yes but Wiley was underated. I'd take him back next year.


Do you even watch basketball?

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/1/2006, 01:55 PM
Avilla yes but Wiley was underated. I'd take him back next year.


Hootie Wiley made Kevin Young at MU look coordinated when he began at OU. By the time he was done he was at least a solid player. Next to Robert Allison, that was the greatest develpment I've seen at a player at OU. Sampson doesn't get all the credit because the players did the work.

I'm not saying Longar will ever be a big scorer but he did have 27 in a game last year. Albeit it was against a team with no size but Wiley or Avilla couldn't score 27 points in a team shootaround.

NickZeppelin
3/1/2006, 02:46 PM
I don't get why people think James is a 4. He'll be a 2 or 3 at OU.

Here's who I think we may start next year.

Reynolds/Johnson depends on how good Reynolds is
Neal
Godbold/James depends on how good James is.
Carter
Griffin

Right now I don't see Longar as a starter. I think Carter can be a 3 or 4 because of his ability to make a mid range jumper. And he can work well inside. We may have to start him at the 4 even though he's a tad bit small at 6-6. We've had shorter starters at post(Ernie Abercrombie was 6-4 I think)

Jimminy Crimson
3/1/2006, 02:48 PM
I like AJ, but if Reynolds isn't starting next year, we're in trouble.

NickZeppelin
3/1/2006, 02:53 PM
I have no idea how good Reynolds is right now same with James. They may be complete busts in college. AJ needs to just be healthy before saying he's not any good or anything.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/1/2006, 03:08 PM
I don't get why people think James is a 4. He'll be a 2 or 3 at OU.

Here's who I think we may start next year.

Reynolds/Johnson depends on how good Reynolds is
Neal
Godbold/James depends on how good James is.
Carter
Griffin

Right now I don't see Longar as a starter. I think Carter can be a 3 or 4 because of his ability to make a mid range jumper. And he can work well inside. We may have to start him at the 4 even though he's a tad bit small at 6-6. We've had shorter starters at post(Ernie Abercrombie was 6-4 I think)


The least relevant item to me in basketball is who actually starts as opposed to who gets the most minutes but I to tend to agree Longar won't get the most minutes at the 5 spot. The presumption that James will be a 4 is pretty much based on his height. I think most of the time next year either Longar or Mayfield will be on the floor as a 5. James' offensive game will probably not be limited by whether he is labeled at a 2 or a 4. The line-up you have listed above would be us going small. Griffin has the strength to be a 5 but he probably will be used more as a high post.

My guess is Reynolds wins out the majority of the minutes at PG but unless AJ shreds his ankle again I think he is going to be a good player as well. Put AJ through about 3 weeks of coach Schmidt's conditioning program and he might look like Quannas White.

NickZeppelin
3/1/2006, 03:10 PM
Coach Schmidt has nothing to do with basketball.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/1/2006, 03:11 PM
Coach Schmidt has nothing to do with basketball.

Didn't say that he did.

Sooner04
3/1/2006, 03:19 PM
Coach Schmidt has nothing to do with basketball.
Thank God.

NormanPride
3/1/2006, 03:50 PM
I wouldn't want Carter as a 4. Our rebounding would suffer and he'd lose his strength advantage over other 3s. We really need Longar or Mayfield to step into Taj's role and at least rebound well and play good D. Griffin needs to learn how to finish, and he should be good after his back heals up.

As much as I love our class this year, I really don't think we're going to be that good next year. We lose too much, and we won't have the consistency we need at Sampson's key positions. If we develop into a reasonably good team next year, I will label Sampson a genius.

NickZeppelin
3/1/2006, 03:54 PM
I wouldn't want Carter as a 4. Our rebounding would suffer and he'd lose his strength advantage over other 3s.

We aren't going to be as good a rebounding team just because we lose Bookout and Gray. Those 2 are as good rebounders as you can get in college. Also our best rebounder under Sampson was 6-4. Carter is about 6-6. Tucker who is another great rebounder at Texas is probably 6-5.

NormanPride
3/1/2006, 04:18 PM
We aren't going to be as good a rebounding team just because we lose Bookout and Gray. Those 2 are as good rebounders as you can get in college. Also our best rebounder under Sampson was 6-4. Carter is about 6-6. Tucker who is another great rebounder at Texas is probably 6-5.

But neither of them are used as 4s. Carter is used a lot like Tucker is, in that he's kind of a 3/4 hybrid that can post up on some poor 3 that doesn't know what he's doing down in the post. The key to Tucker's success is that there are other big guys that the other team's big guys are worrying about. If it was just Buckman and Tucker out there, he would be at a disadvantage.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/1/2006, 04:35 PM
Thank God.


I know, I know. I was just alluding to the fact that AJ has quickness,toughness and he handles the ball well but needs to add some strength so he is a better finisher. I think he will.

Also I know Schmidt isn't the post popular guy around and there have been lineman transfer presumably because they couldn't take his training regimine/personality (or Wilson's) but the guy IS a winner. He has been involved in national championship teams at Notre Dame, Florida and OU. Hard ***? Most certainly.

NUSooner
3/1/2006, 04:36 PM
No offense to DG, but if James isn't starting over him by the time conference season starts, it probably isn't a good sign and we could be seeing a season next year of what OSU is doing this year. However, I think James will be good enough.

We'll likely be going smaller next year, I could see a lineup of Reynolds, Neal, James, Griffin/Carter, Longar.

I think Carter already is passing up Godbold and will see a lot more playing time next year...Godbold could see a step down in PT with nobody graduating ahead of him at the position and a really good recruit coming in.

MiccoMacey
3/1/2006, 04:57 PM
My dad, An OSU alum, noted that OU wrestlers are constantly hurt and injured, at a much higher rate than what is normal for wrestling.

I don't think it's Schmidt directly, but isn't he responsible for the overall strength and conditioning program, including his subordinates?

NickZeppelin
3/1/2006, 05:07 PM
But neither of them are used as 4s. Carter is used a lot like Tucker is, in that he's kind of a 3/4 hybrid that can post up on some poor 3 that doesn't know what he's doing down in the post. The key to Tucker's success is that there are other big guys that the other team's big guys are worrying about. If it was just Buckman and Tucker out there, he would be at a disadvantage.

What helps Carter at the 4 is that he can also hit a mid range jumper. And he's a decent rebound. Not near the rebounders Gray or Bookout are. I also don't know if we'll have as good a penetrator guard as Everett is. It'll be easier to defend Neal without a great inside game.


No offense to DG, but if James isn't starting over him by the time conference season starts, it probably isn't a good sign and we could be seeing a season next year of what OSU is doing this year. However, I think James will be good enough.

It'll all depend on how good a defender James is. Godbold's a pretty good defender for the most part and plus the experience in the system. Godbold will always play a lot. I think he needs to step up on offense.


I don't think it's Schmidt directly, but isn't he responsible for the overall strength and conditioning program, including his subordinates?

This is a joke right? Schmidt is only responsible for our football S&C program.

OUstud
3/1/2006, 05:07 PM
Aggy game thoughts: If we play like that in the tournament, we are absoultely screwed.

This year was just a rollercoaster of emotions. Highly ranked to start off (remember the Top 5? It was only a few months ago.), then we go to Villanova and lose a frustrating one that drew considerable parallels to last year's Duke game. Then, the WVU game. That's when I pretty much said "here we go, another Calvin year." and by the time the 0-2 start in conference play and Nate Carter threw a reverse layup over the backboard untouched in College Station, I was ready to hang myself. Then, Everett hit that 3, and I was thinking if we could get by Saxet, we could win out. We did get by Whorn, and I didn't see us getting beat by KU.

Then we did, and I knew then that we wouldn't do anything significant in the tournament. 2 wins later over subpar teams, and we go to CU, and with our struggles against North teams, plus Richard Roby, I knew we would get beat. Then, of course, the strangest part of this rollercoaster, these 1 point wins, which had me puking (out of joy). Hopefully we go up against Saxet. Realistically, after the Saxet game (which I view as a toss-up, we play well there usually), I see us losing in the finals of the Big XII tournament, then getting about a 5 seed, beating Creighton or someone, then bowing out to someone stupid like Iowa, shooting 17% in the process.

Next year, with our Fab 5 coming in, could go one of two ways. 1. The chemistry gels much quicker than KU's and we ride the freshmen and Taylor Griffin to a Big XII Championship, or 2. We pull a KU and don't come together until like February. Who knows with this team though.

Next year,

MiccoMacey
3/1/2006, 05:11 PM
This is a joke right? Schmidt is only responsible for our football S&C program.

Not a joke...more of a question.

I was thinking he was responsible for the overall program.

If not, that's why I worded it like I did.

But thanks for clearing it up.

Do you know who is responsible for the wrestling team's strength and conditioning?

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/1/2006, 05:29 PM
My dad, An OSU alum, noted that OU wrestlers are constantly hurt and injured, at a much higher rate than what is normal for wrestling.

I don't think it's Schmidt directly, but isn't he responsible for the overall strength and conditioning program, including his subordinates?


My dad, not an OU alum has noted that OSU football players are constantly hurt and injured especially when playing against OU. :D :D :D

MiccoMacey
3/1/2006, 05:32 PM
My dad, not an OU alum has noted that OSU football players are constantly hurt and injured especially when playing against OU. :D :D :D

I think that's Schmiddty's fault as well. :D

MojoRisen
3/1/2006, 07:41 PM
Who is the JUCO Center that Sampson is Salivating over- 6-10 or 7 I can't remember- someone who could come in and be an impact since Mayfield will likely not be ready for PRIME TIME.

I think we are close to landing him..

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/2/2006, 11:18 AM
Who is the JUCO Center that Sampson is Salivating over- 6-10 or 7 I can't remember- someone who could come in and be an impact since Mayfield will likely not be ready for PRIME TIME.

I think we are close to landing him..


I don't know. From the comments I've read in a couple publications about Mayfield it sounds like he could probably play for us right now.

I'm all for landing another Juco big man though, especially if Clark doesn't qualify.

NickZeppelin
3/2/2006, 02:45 PM
Mayfield has basically played guard for his HS team. There is no way he's ready to play inside for this team.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/2/2006, 02:57 PM
Mayfield has basically played guard for his HS team. There is no way he's ready to play inside for this team.


It may be true that he isn't ready, I have no idea, but your first statement has nothing to do with the second. Often the best player on a team in high school is asked to handle the ball a lot. I would consider it a plus if he can handle the ball.

If I must cite an example(since I'm sure you'll want to debate this) Magic Johnson played PG for his NBA team and did "OK" when he played center for the LA Lakers in the NBA finals. This was pre-2000 so you will have to do some research.

NickZeppelin
3/2/2006, 03:07 PM
From what I understand of Mayfield he will need a lot of work to play here as a freshman. He probably redshirts.

stoopified
3/2/2006, 05:10 PM
While I don't pretend to know the strengths and weaknesses of our incoming payers, I do know Sampson.Having watched his teams over the years ,I have noticed the veterans tend to get the nod over the youngsters,at least early.

For that reason I tend to see our depth chart like this:
PG AJ/ Renolds(Although i have read ,heard conflicting stories that Reynolds is more a shhoting guard and Crocker a point)

SG Neal/Crocker.

SF Godbold /Carter( DG is an intangible player,have not seen enough contribution from Carter to move him ahead yet).

PF Griffin /James nod goes to vet over most talented recruit(although I think we could see both start with L2 and Mayfield coming off the bench).

C L2/Mayfield (See above and Clark could figure in at PF,SF or C.Versatility is the buzzword on our bigmen ). As for our ability to rebound,shoot or score inside that is speculative at best for now.However I don't see us as being in danger of falling off rebounding wise because we ALWAYS rebound pretty well(remember the bubble drill).Add in that we also have rebounded well despite Gray not always playing hard or smart and Book playing one-handed half the year.Recall also that rebounding is in large part driven by desire.Sampson recruits players with fire (Abercrombie,Brewer,Najera).For this reason I have to think we have those kind of players coming in.Those that aren't will soon be or they will not play.

As far as inside scoring goes Taylor and Nate have shown some inside scoring ability even if L2,James,Mayfield,Clark have no inside game.Personally I find that unlikely but hey for the most part we have been good even with no inside punch.

What I do see is a lot of athletic bodies which are suited to RUNNING.Do NOT misunderstand,I am not predicting Billyball2 but I thik we could see more of the up-tempo we have seen this year.

When it comes to outside shooting Reynolds and Crocker are reputed to be good and Clark,James are supposed to have game,(outside includes 12-18 ft jumpers as well as threes) , Don't forget Godbold,Carter have been decent the last half of the season,Neal is deadly .As for Austin who knows until he gets healthy.All in all the future looks bright but does depend on chemistry which starts to be determined in June(Sampson said everyone will be on campus by then).Looking forward to it,BOOMER SOONER BABY.

MojoRisen
3/2/2006, 07:32 PM
It may be true that he isn't ready, I have no idea, but your first statement has nothing to do with the second. Often the best player on a team in high school is asked to handle the ball a lot. I would consider it a plus if he can handle the ball.

If I must cite an example(since I'm sure you'll want to debate this) Magic Johnson played PG for his NBA team and did "OK" when he played center for the LA Lakers in the NBA finals. This was pre-2000 so you will have to do some research.

Agreed- if he can handle the ball- and bring up court- He may be a Kenyon martin type player- no back to basket ball- but will out athlete a lot of people and be a huge impact.

MojoRisen
3/2/2006, 07:35 PM
What I do see is a lot of athletic bodies which are suited to RUNNING.Do NOT misunderstand,I am not predicting Billyball2 but I thik we could see more of the up-tempo we have seen this year.

When it comes to outside shooting Reynolds and Crocker are reputed to be good and Clark,James are supposed to have game,(outside includes 12-18 ft jumpers as well as threes) , Don't forget Godbold,Carter have been decent the last half of the season,Neal is deadly .As for Austin who knows until he gets healthy.All in all the future looks bright but does depend on chemistry which starts to be determined in June(Sampson said everyone will be on campus by then).Looking forward to it,BOOMER SOONER BABY.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking this myself- I was wondering if Kelvin is planning on getting more up tempo to play to the strengths of his incoming class... I hope he does. If they avg half of what they did in highschool- we would get 80 a game.

Big Red Ron
3/3/2006, 08:13 AM
If Longar Longar is playing significant minutes next year we will be sitting at home in late March.Longer > Renzi Stone&Hootie&Avila combined.

Crimsontothecore
3/3/2006, 09:49 AM
I don't know why everyone is comparing this years osu team to what we might be next year. You must remember that one reason osu sucked this year is because for 90% of the season they had a drunken slob for a coach. Advantage>OU

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/3/2006, 10:00 AM
I don't know why everyone is comparing this years osu team to what we might be next year. You must remember that one reason osu sucked this year is because for 90% of the season they had a drunken slob for a coach. Advantage>OU

I think the thread morphed into a general discussion of the team next year. I'm more concerned with beating Baylor next year though than I am of OSU.

NickZeppelin
3/3/2006, 11:43 AM
Longer > Renzi Stone&Hootie&Avila combined.

I don't know about that atleast those guys could set picks worth a damn. :D

Stanley1
3/3/2006, 12:12 PM
Longer > Renzi Stone&Hootie&Avila combined.

Are you kidding me? LL is a shot blocker and dunker. Nothing more. Renzi, Avila, and even Szeindre were good defenders that could rebound in traffic. Everytime LL is on the court, I get nervous as heck.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/3/2006, 12:52 PM
Are you kidding me? LL is a shot blocker and dunker. Nothing more. Renzi, Avila, and even Szeindre were good defenders that could rebound in traffic. Everytime LL is on the court, I get nervous as heck.

Renzi became a solid defender after some time bit I'd be shocked if he ever had more than 10-11 points in a game. Longar had a 27 point game. Avila was just a big body. Szendre was an enforcer but he was about a foul a minute player. Liked his energy. I'm not ready to retire Longar's number but he is contributing more than any of those guys were at this point in their career. Blocked shots are generally pretty good and dunks are worth 2 points so I don't have a problem with that either.

NickZeppelin
3/3/2006, 01:03 PM
Longar needs to improve a lot to say he's as good as Renzi. I may agree he's better then Avila or Szendrei. Renzi was a big part of getting this program to the next level with his hustle and he played really smart. Longar doesn't play very smart a lot of the time right now.

CobraKai
3/3/2006, 02:21 PM
Well, I would say that Longar is by far the best double named player we have ever had, and arguably the best in Big 12 history. Prove me wrong folks. Prove me wrong!

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/3/2006, 05:23 PM
Longar needs to improve a lot to say he's as good as Renzi. I may agree he's better then Avila or Szendrei. Renzi was a big part of getting this program to the next level with his hustle and he played really smart. Longar doesn't play very smart a lot of the time right now.

Renzi developed into a nice player as a senior. His stats as a a junior at OU were:

4 PPG 3.7 RPG 1.1 apg .6 bpg 53.1 fg % FT% 63.6 in 19.5 min

Longars stats right now as a soph
1.8 PPG 2 RPG about .1 apg, .6 bpg 55% FG 40% FT in 7 min

So you are saying that if Longar plays 20 minutes a game next year he has a long way to go to match those numbers? Free Throw % maybe

I don't disagree at all that Renzi was a hustle player though I like what Longar has done in limited minutes. Longar needs to improve in 2 areas. 1. Stay out of foul trouble 2. Improve FT shooting. Otherwise I like his game and his upside is far better than Renzi's ever was.