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View Full Version : I'll take the win, but I don't get this



boomersooner28
2/25/2006, 06:31 PM
we have a 1-point lead, the ball, and 18 seconds left on the shotclock, 36 seconds I think on the gameclock. We call a timeout.

How in the hell do we not have a play designed coming out of this timeout? A score is crucial and we inbounds the ball, pass it to Neal, he passes it right back to Everett, then he dribbles around and goes one-on-one, throwing up a prayer with the shotclock running down, no points! :mad:

I don't get it.

ouflak
2/25/2006, 06:36 PM
I wonder if this thread will replace the 'Strategic Blunder' thread....

oumartin
2/25/2006, 06:38 PM
we won so I won't gripe

































to much

Newbomb Turk
2/25/2006, 06:40 PM
I don't like our strategy by putting the ball in Everett's hands for the last shot. However, for the most part, it has worked for us.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
2/25/2006, 06:41 PM
The way KSU was hitting everthing for a while I think we should have lost today. These 1-point wins are starting to turn me gray but I'm glad we got it done.

boomersooner28
2/25/2006, 06:41 PM
Well lets atleast set a freaking screen or something.




Ok, Im done.

oumartin
2/25/2006, 06:45 PM
this team is running around moving w/o the ball so much better than it did the first of the year.
on offense anyhow. they forgot how to play d.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
2/25/2006, 06:48 PM
this team is running around moving w/o the ball so much better than it did the first of the year.
on offense anyhow. they forgot how to play d.


True, there were several big defensive breakdowns, late in the shot clock which makes it even worse. Plus KSU hit some shots even when the d was pretty solid. I didn't have a good feeling about today at the half so I'm just happy we won.

shavedmarmoset
2/25/2006, 06:56 PM
What is that like three 1-point wins in a row now?

It seemed like they shot around 70 percent or so but i guess it seems like they made all their shots because they got all the offensive boards.

Frozen Sooner
2/25/2006, 06:56 PM
15-4 in 1 point games.

Kelvin knows what he's doing.

Paperclip
2/25/2006, 10:48 PM
We beat a team with four wins in conference by one point at home while the team that we beat by one point at home last week gets punked by Baylor. I'm sure Kelvin knows what he's doing, but I don't know if anyone else does.

Jay C. Upchurch
2/25/2006, 11:01 PM
If you've kept up with K-State at all this season, you know they have a talented young team — much better than their 14-11 record might indicate.

They lost to Texas by 1 point earlier this week, and they've lost nine games this season by 5 points or less.

Ground_Attack
2/25/2006, 11:13 PM
so the question is why do we consistently play DOWN to our competition

Paperclip
2/25/2006, 11:23 PM
If you've kept up with K-State at all this season, you know they have a talented young team — much better than their 14-11 record might indicate.

They lost to Texas by 1 point earlier this week, and they've lost nine games this season by 5 points or less.

If you've kept up with OU at all this season you know they have a talented team that consistently underachieves. And it will be a team that loses to a team in the NCAA tourney that it has no business losing to.

Jay C. Upchurch
2/25/2006, 11:32 PM
If you've kept up with OU at all this season you know they have a talented team that consistently underachieves. And it will be a team that loses to a team in the NCAA tourney that it has no business losing to.

Funny, I thought the ultimate goal was winning games.

OU is 19-6 overall and 10-4 in conference. If that is considered "consistently underachieving" then 95 percent of the Division-I basketball coaches in the country should be fired because they are all scratching and clawing just to get to the level you OU is floundering at....

Interesting perspective, indeed.

Soonerus
2/25/2006, 11:34 PM
Kelvin has always had a go-to guy who he likes to give the ball at showtime...he's had pretty good luck....

Paperclip
2/25/2006, 11:40 PM
Funny, I thought the ultimate goal was winning games.

It is. But holding your breath at the end of a game vs. an inferior opponent is not really the best way to achieve that goal.

Soonerus
2/25/2006, 11:44 PM
parity...

Jay C. Upchurch
2/25/2006, 11:52 PM
But holding your breath at the end of a game vs. an inferior opponent is not really the best way to achieve that goal.

True enough.

No doubt OU has not played up to its potential at times this season. And that can be a frustrating situation, especially when your name is Kelvin Sampson. He's done well not to blow a gasket at various points this season.

But in the overall picture, you have to look at the bottom line — and that is wins and losses. This team has won 10 of its last 12 games after a lot of folks wrote it off as a lost cause.

Consistency is something OU has not produced much of this season. They play good defense against Texas and OSU, and then struggle against teams like Colorado and K-State.

There is still work to be done if the Sooners are going to travel very far in the postseason. Personally, I don't think OU is that far from being a potentially great basketball team that can make a serious run in the Dance.

But only time will tell.

birddog
2/26/2006, 12:45 AM
The bottom line is wins and losses, sure. But we are beating teams that won't be in the tournament and losing to teams that will be. I know we beat Tejas. My concern is in the tournament a 1 point win over K-State will probably equal a 10 point loss to a tournament team. I would love to see them make a run in the tourney but I'm afraid it won't be this year.

MojoRisen
2/26/2006, 10:21 AM
Funny, I thought the ultimate goal was winning games.

OU is 19-6 overall and 10-4 in conference. If that is considered "consistently underachieving" then 95 percent of the Division-I basketball coaches in the country should be fired because they are all scratching and clawing just to get to the level you OU is floundering at....

Interesting perspective, indeed.

I will take that- however our close wins and blown leads- we definitely could be calling for Kelvin's head if we were 15-10 easily could be...

I will take that though 19-6 with one Quality win.

CtheB
2/26/2006, 11:09 AM
If you've kept up with K-State at all this season, you know they have a talented young team — much better than their 14-11 record might indicate.

They lost to Texas by 1 point earlier this week, and they've lost nine games this season by 5 points or less.

Jay, it's amazing to me that every single team in the conference is "just a game away" or "better than their record indicates" when we barely scrape by them, but on a national perspective, these teams stink and so does the Big 12this year, by virtue of the common thought that only 3 or 4 teams will get in the tourney. So which is it?

Don't get me wrong, a win's a win, and I'll take it with the medicine that this team is obviously not as good as most thought at the outset of the year, but let's not get our expectations up or blow false hope over our recent successes, this OU team, without serious improvement, once again will not see the second weekend of the Dance.

MojoRisen
2/26/2006, 11:29 AM
agreed, The big 12 is way down this year- We could easily be 21-4 or 15-10 and either way- we don't look good in our wins. There isn't a big separation from KSTATE, TECH to OU.

We are pulling out some close wins- and that builds confidence and I think it is great and still very exciting. The reality is we are slightly above avg.

picasso
2/26/2006, 12:41 PM
do you guys think we're better than we were last year?

MojoRisen
2/26/2006, 12:53 PM
We should be better, but it hasn't played out that way. I will wait until after the big 12 tourney to comment on that officially. At this point I would say no...

Would this team get beat by UTah- without question.

birddog
2/26/2006, 12:54 PM
We aren't better. We are the exact same team.

CtheB
2/26/2006, 12:55 PM
do you guys think we're better than we were last year?

We should be better than we were last year, but unless the conference has greatly improved, which I don't think it has, we sure are not seeing it on the court. So, no, I think we have better talent overall, but the team is not as good.

birddog
2/26/2006, 12:59 PM
The real problem is we are average. There are 40-50 teams with a similar record that we could match up with in the tournament. As soon as we see the draw..."oooh, Niagara, we're gonna have a tough time with them." That's where we are right now.

CtheB
2/26/2006, 01:45 PM
Everyone in the tournament will be tough. This coming from a program that generally struggles in the tournament anyway. So I ask the question, has this season been the biggest disappointment under Sampson? Preseason top 5, conference PoY and All-American, and none of the preseason expectations will be met. So is this the biggest disappointment? I say it has, and do so without knocking KS for it. I don't know why, most of his teams exceed expectations, so is it the fact that the program is in better shape when the bar is lowered?

MojoRisen
2/26/2006, 04:07 PM
Based on pre season Hype it has to be, that isn't KS or the teams fault I guess...

All I know it is a lot easier to watch and stomach beating an avg team when we are scoring 70 points than it is when we are scoring 50.

I can stomach being ranked 20th scoring 70 points than 50. At least we are playing a little basketball and not out there being goons.

Early on it was a double edge sword- we were absolutely pitiful- we are now atleast a top 25 team and at least fun to watch compared to talking about what is less painful than to watch.

So with that being said I have to say we are greatly improved with a long ways to go...

Jay C. Upchurch
2/26/2006, 08:56 PM
Jay, it's amazing to me that every single team in the conference is "just a game away" or "better than their record indicates" when we barely scrape by them, but on a national perspective, these teams stink and so does the Big 12this year, by virtue of the common thought that only 3 or 4 teams will get in the tourney. So which is it?

First of all, I haven't said any of the things about OU's opponents you evidently are giving me credit for — "just a game away" or "better than their record indicates" — other than I said K-State has proven this season it has a lot of young talent that can be dangerous.

That has been evidenced by the Wildcats' road win at Kansas and most recent performances against No. 7 Texas and No. 20 Oklahoma — both close losses that could have been wins.

I've said all along the Sooners have struggled for consistency this season, especially with their on-the-ball defense. The problem OU had with K-State was the way they matched up in the paint — the Wildcats were smaller and quicker and that presented some issues. That is something Sampson and Company will have to deal with better in future games.

No one is arguing that the Big 12 Conference isn't down this season. It is. But with that said, it should also be pointed out that there are not many bad teams in this league. Look at Texas A&M, Colorado, K-State, Nebraska, Iowa State and Texas Tech — all of those teams can be really tough at home and all they have the talent to upset some good teams on the road. Granted, they aren't top 25 material, but they certainly don't stink, as you put it.

K-State 14-11 overall, 13-2 at home
Nebraska 16-9, 13-4 at home
Colorado 17-6, 12-1 at home
Texas A&M 16-7, 14-2 at home
Iowa State 14-11, 7-6 at home
Texas Tech 14-13, 12-3 at home

OSU is probably the one major disappointment in the league (along with Texas Tech overall), and we all saw what the Aggies did to Texas last week.

Currently, OU has won 10 of its last 12 games. Are the Sooners playing at the top of their game? No, and that has to be considered a good thing when you look at what they've done over the last month.

Sorry if I choose to believe this team is going to play its best basketball over the next five weeks. Right now, they are looking at a No. 5 seed in the Dance and I think they can improve on that with a good showing in the Big 12 tourney.

CtheB
2/26/2006, 09:17 PM
If you've kept up with K-State at all this season, you know they have a talented young team — much better than their 14-11 record might indicate.

You were saying? :)

Look, Jay, the Big 12 is a free for all, because no team has really separated itself from the pack on a national perspective other than Texas. Granted, that's our quality win, but do you honestly believe that one point wins over KSU, ISU and Tech are really something with which we can "build upon" for the remainder of the year? True, we finish the season right now and we are at best a 5 or 6 seed, but when you are doing what we have been doing, and have the great fortune to win those games, you put yourself into a pot with a number of teams with 8 or 9 losses that are in the same predicament but in the other direction. That being said, those teams enter the tourney as an 8 or 9, and are far better than the teams in the Big 12. To summarize, another first or second round exit for the Sooners.

But I guess if you define the success of a season solely upon the seed we get in the tourney, then your logic is good.

One quality win, a number of blown quality leads, and a gaggle of "by the skin of our nose" wins and losses against the fodder of the Big 12 are hardly anything that has exactly built a tournament resume.

But, in retrospect, its all fine and dandy. 25 games into the year is rarely the time for a renaissance period to occur, and we are gradually seeing our expectations drop. That seems to be the time when Kelvin's teams surprise us, so I assume it's a good thing.

Jay C. Upchurch
2/26/2006, 09:27 PM
Maybe you should read your post again...


Jay, it's amazing to me that every single team in the conference is "just a game away" or "better than their record indicates" when we barely scrape by them, but on a national perspective, these teams stink and so does the Big 12this year, by virtue of the common thought that only 3 or 4 teams will get in the tourney. So which is it?

OK, I stand corrected about my K-State comment. Sorry about that. But show me where I've said that about "EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE CONFERENCE."

By any chance, are you a Rush Limbaugh fan? You seem to have a knack, much like he does, to state as fact whatever you feel is the truth, and then when questioned, pluck a single example without providing any real founded evidence.

Show me what and when I've made any other statement like the ones your are giving me credit for.... please.

jk the sooner fan
2/26/2006, 09:41 PM
a 5 seed?

i bet we're thankful with a 7

Jay C. Upchurch
2/26/2006, 09:45 PM
I'd take that bet.

With OU's RPI (No. 15) and national ranking (probably No. 17 tomorrow), the Sooners would be no lower than a No. 5 if the bracket was drawn up this week.

A lot of where they end up will depend on how they finish the regular season and play in the Big 12 Tourney.

OU would have to lose to OSU and Texas and then bow out of the Big 12 Tourney on Friday to drop to a No. 7 seed.

On the other hand, if OU beats OSU and wins at Austin and then wins two of three or better at Dallas, the Sooners could be as high as a No. 3.

SoonerBBall
2/26/2006, 09:46 PM
a 5 seed?

i bet we're thankful with a 7

19-6, ranked in the top 20, and with an RPI of 12? You are smoking some serious crack if you think we are less than a 5 seed. We still have more games to play, but right now, we are probably a 4. 5 is the absolute lowest we are right now.

jk the sooner fan
2/26/2006, 09:47 PM
we still have more games to play

time will tell

i remember a year we had 20 wins and went to the NIT

and you think we'll jump from 20 to 17 with a 1 point win over Kstate?

puhleease

CtheB
2/26/2006, 09:48 PM
Maybe you should read your post again...

OK, I stand corrected about my K-State comment. Sorry about that. But show me where I've said that about "EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE CONFERENCE."

Just the ones we scrape by.



By any chance, are you a Rush Limbaugh fan? You seem to have a knack, much like he does, to state as fact whatever you feel is the truth, and then when questioned, pluck a single example without providing any real founded evidence.

Show me what and when I've made any other statement like the ones your are giving me credit for.... please.

Since you make the comparison of myself to Rush Limbaugh, let me offer the comparison of yourself to Michael Moore, one who can put a spin on anything to sell a product and never objectively evaluate the other side of the argument, only insult it?

Jay C. Upchurch
2/26/2006, 10:05 PM
If I made those comments and you can show me, like I did earlier, I'll be happy to acknowledge that I was wrong.

But of course, you offer no examples or proof.

By the way, Michael Moorer is one of my favorite boxers of all time. ; }

birddog
2/26/2006, 10:15 PM
This is why I check this board everyday.

CtheB
2/26/2006, 10:47 PM
If I made those comments and you can show me, like I did earlier, I'll be happy to acknowlege that I was wrong.

But of course, you offer no examples or proof.

By the way, Michael Moorer is one of my favorite boxers of all time. ; }

I apologize. The KSU game is the only one where I have documented proof of your spin on an opponent.

"After their loss at Stillwater on Sunday, the Longhorns haven't exactly bounced back with a vengence against a mediocre K-State team tonite."-Jay C. Upchurch, 02/22/06

"If you've kept up with K-State at all this season, you know they have a talented young team — much better than their 14-11 record might indicate."-02/25/06

Some others, to show you that our logic is no different than your logic, just on opposite sides:

"There is a huge difference between not having a bona fide leader and an entire team not showing energy."-01/14/06

"The problem is getting half of those buying tickets to show up and cheer. Too many absentee fans."-01/15/06

"But maybe if OU basketball fans put this "potentially misdirected" energy back into supporting the team at the LNC on game days, the Sooners themselves become the beneficiaries."-02/03/06

"Hey, if it makes people feel better about things to blame Kelvin, then so be it. Obviously, that's how it's always going to be when the Sooners lose a game like that."-02/05/06

"When OU plays well, the players are doing a great job. When OU loses, Kelvin is a bad coach."-02/05/06

Counterpoints to your thoughts.

"Hey, if it makes you feel better about things to blame everything except Kelvin, then so be it. Obviously, that's how it's always going to be when the Sooners lose a game like that."

"When OU plays well, Kelvin's doing a great job. When OU loses, it's the fans and players fault."

This being said, Jay, we will once again agree to disagree and part friends here after our little scrap. And Rush is also one of my favorite bands of all time. :)

Rock Hard Corn Frog
2/27/2006, 10:22 AM
we still have more games to play

time will tell

i remember a year we had 20 wins and went to the NIT

and you think we'll jump from 20 to 17 with a 1 point win over Kstate?

puhleease

OU has never missed the NCAA tourney with 20 wins prior to the tourney selection. Two years ago we were 19-9 (8-8) and got our 20th win in the NIT. In 96-97 we made the NCAA tourney with a 19-10 (9-7) conf record.


BTW, I like Rush Limbaugh myself (not that politics should be even remotely relevant to this discussion) but I generally tend to agree with Jay.

According to CBS yesterday our RPI was 12. Not that it is the end all, but RPI cares not whether you beat KSU by 1 point or by 30. We are at worst a 5 seed at the moment and are probably a 4. If the scenario plays out where we beat OSU, lose to Texas, win our first conf tourney game and then lose in the Semis to KU we would still be at worst a 5, still possibly a 4. Add another win in there somewhere and we are a 3.

jk the sooner fan
2/27/2006, 10:26 AM
i stand corrected

MojoRisen
2/27/2006, 11:34 AM
I hope we win out- and win the big 12 Tourney! There is still hope in that we really start to click O & D. al beit it has taken us 25 games....

I have made observations of our performance thus far- and I don't feel like we deserve a 4 seed- but I will take it! I think we will get a real idea of what we are all about when we head down to Austin later in the week...

ouflak
2/27/2006, 12:20 PM
I would just like to get Texas @ Austin. That would be sweet. I fully expect the team to win its first round game in the conf. tourney.

As far as affecting our seed, I kind of agree with a few other posters in thinking that our seed is pretty much locked in at around a 4-6, no matter what happens from here on out. I think it would take something miraculous/disastrous to get us a #3 seed or a #7 seed, given our likely end-of-season RPI.

Jay C. Upchurch
2/27/2006, 01:18 PM
OU moved back up to No. 17 in today's coaches' poll...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankingsindex

Big Red Ron
2/27/2006, 01:23 PM
I'd rather be a six seed than a five. Don't need to play a one seed too early.