Sheesh...got neg specked

[Jerk]

because someone totally misunderstood my post.

Oh well.

I said that no Christian ever offered a bounty on the "cross in the urinal" artist. He negged me and called me a liar, and said "Everyone knows GWB put a bounty on Osama!!!"

WTF?

[12]

YMGSNSBGITJERKLMNOP.

I have no idea.

Though the "Pee Pee" "artwork" offended me, I was never motivated to kill anyone or burn a building down.

I remember thinking that it would simply go away without an audience.

Same situation with this current thing, though they have created their own audience by burning stuff down and bombing people.

I'm telling you, I'll bet the subscriptions to Mad Magazine are slow among the 11 year olds over there.

[SoonerInKCMO]

:confused:

Reading comprehension isn't always so great around here.

Must be some closet aggies or sumthin'.

[12]

Good point. I guess I need to round up a boyfriend and a sheep.

HEE HEE HEE!!!!! Got me there, funny guy.

[Widescreen]

I think he was referring to the negspek.

[12]

Oh, and it wasn't me who neg specked... I have yet to do so to any other poster.

[12]

Oh, well... in that case... please procede.

(a Sooner too close to the whole Aggie world)

[Jerk]

I think he was referring to the negspek.

I've done it very very few times...maybe 2 or 3 at the most. I have to be very angry.

[Jimminy Crimson]

So who negged you?

[Jerk]

So who negged you?

bah, it ain't important. I'm just going to forget about it and go to bed.

[SoonerInKCMO]

I think he was referring to the negspek.

Yes, yes I was.

[Stoop Dawg]

I'm happy to have made your "negspek short-list". I feel honored.


because someone totally misunderstood my post.

Oh well.

I said that no Christian ever offered a bounty on the "cross in the urinal" artist. He negged me and called me a liar, and said "Everyone knows GWB put a bounty on Osama!!!"

WTF?

Perhaps I should have negged your post that said "This is the dumbest post I've ever read at SO. One guy drew a cartoon, the other guy planned a massive terror attack that killed 3,000 people. And you compare putting a bounty on one to the other?"

Yes. I compared putting a bounty on one person to putting a bounty on the other. The Bible doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill, unless you think the other person deserves it".

And what's with all the Nancy-boy crying about negspek?

[Jerk]

Actually, there are certain justifications for executions in the Bible. The interpretation for "Thou shall not kill" is probably closer to "Thou shall not murder." In the OT, for example, dishonering ones parents was enough to get a man stoned to death. Was God telling Israel to break commandments, or enforce them? But that isn't really the issue. The real messed up thing is your world view. Is public education really getting this bad, or did you get your ideology from Rage Against the Machine. I mean to say.. is it "cool" to be a dumbass?

[mdklatt]

And what's with all the Nancy-boy crying about negspek?

It's those damn libz.... ;)

[Stoop Dawg]

Actually, there are certain justifications for executions in the Bible. The interpretation for "Thou shall not kill" is probably closer to "Thou shall not murder." In the OT, for example, dishonering ones parents was enough to get a man stoned to death. Was God telling Israel to break commandments, or enforce them?

Interpretation of "Thou shalt not kill". I'm loving it. Keep it going. So you're saying that there are times when killing is condoned? Even required? Painting yourself with same brush used to paint the Muslims now, aren't you?


But that isn't really the issue. The real messed up thing is your world view. Is public education really getting this bad, or did you get your ideology from Rage Against the Machine. I mean to say.. is it "cool" to be a dumbass?

Debate with facts. In the absence of facts, resort to personal attacks. I think we all see where your side of the debate rests.

[Dio]

Actually, Exodus 20:13 is often translated as "Thou shalt not murder", and in fact the very next chapter describes several situations in which someone "...shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 21 vs 12,15,16)

Now Jerk shouldn't have called you a dumbass, but you can't use that to delegitimize this entire "side" of the debate.

[Jerk]

Thank you, Dio.

My side of the debate rests on the fact that there is a large difference between GWB putting a bounty on Osama and a bunch of radical fanatics putting a bounty on a cartoon artists. In your ****ed up world view, for some reason you don't see any difference...as if, Osama doesn't deserve to die any more than the Danish cartoon artist does and both bounties are morally wrong. Sorry, but some people just deserve to die, and fanatical jihadist ragheads are among those who are at the top of the list.

Stop bringing the Bible into this...you don't know anything about it. God told the Jews when they return to their home land, to kill every man, woman, and child who was there. There would be alot less problems if they would have obeyed Him. oops, that ain't politically correct.

[Stoop Dawg]

My side of the debate rests on the fact that there is a large difference between GWB putting a bounty on Osama and a bunch of radical fanatics putting a bounty on a cartoon artists. In your ****ed up world view, for some reason you don't see any difference...as if, Osama doesn't deserve to die any more than the Danish cartoon artist does and both bounties are morally wrong. Sorry, but some people just deserve to die, and fanatical jihadist ragheads are among those who are at the top of the list.

If you were able to read you would see that I have not once given my "world view" on this topic. The only thing I've said is that the Christian "world view" is hypocritical. And it is.


Stop bringing the Bible into this...you don't know anything about it. God told the Jews when they return to their home land, to kill every man, woman, and child who was there. There would be alot less problems if they would have obeyed Him. oops, that ain't politically correct.

I thought that Jesus' birth, death, and resurrection made the laws of the Old Testament moot? How convenient for you Christians to pick and choose when the Old Testament applies and when it doesn't. It the debates about how the Bible is just as violent as the Koran you guys say the OT is no longer relevant. Now that it suits your view to have the Bible allow for killing it's suddently pertinent, quotable scripture again.

Perhaps YOU should stop bringing the Bible into this, as you clearly haven't figured it out yet.

[chriscappel]

ooo...this interesting!!! I like....

[Dio]

If you were able to read you would see that I have not once given my "world view" on this topic. The only thing I've said is that the Christian "world view" is hypocritical. And it is.

Is this conclusion based on your studies, or on your assumptions? My guess is the latter.


Perhaps YOU should stop bringing the Bible into this, as you clearly haven't figured it out yet.

You brought the Bible up first, and did so with one quote completely taken out of context.

[Stoop Dawg]

Educate me. When is killing okay, according to the Bible. I'd also like to know whether the OT law is still in force or whether it was completely over-turned by the NT.

Thanks.

[Sooner_Bob]

The Ten Commandments were given to the people to show them what they would need to do to continue to receive God's blessing and eventually get the promised land and to stay there.

Follow the Law - Get the Blessing - Stay in the Land . . .

It was when they chose not to follow the law that the Babylonians came in and took over . . .

If you're gonna pick apart the OT and/or the Ten Commandments you better be prepared to follow them all to the "T". You can't pick and choose which you'll follow and which you won't.

[Sooner_Bob]

Educate me. When is killing okay, according to the Bible. I'd also like to know whether the OT law is still in force or whether it was completely over-turned by the NT.

Thanks.


The OT law/requirement of blood sacrifices is no more . . . Christ was the perfect sacrifice and paid our debt in full for us.

[Okieflyer]

Educate me. When is killing okay, according to the Bible. I'd also like to know whether the OT law is still in force or whether it was completely over-turned by the NT.

Thanks.

How can a guy who has already made his mind up be educated on the subject. The Bible teaches that if anyone breaks the law, the penalty is Death. It also teaches that everyone of us deserves death. Christ didn't do away with the law, he came to take the penalty of death for us. Paul said in

Romans 13

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Yes as individuals we are to turn the other cheek. That would probably solve a lot of problems. But murder and kill are two different things and if you murder someone and are to be put to death. It's what you deserve. You can be forgiven, but you still have to reap the consequence of your actions.

[Dio]

You're confusing the rights of individuals with the responsibilities of the authorities. I don't know of a place in the Bible (OT or NT) that says it's okay for an individual to decide to kill somebody. The OT proscribes events where the authorities were required to kill people for punishment, or where an army was to defeat a foe wholly and completely so their wickedness would not taint the victors, etc.

When you ask if the NT "completely overturned" the OT, I think you erroneously conclude Christians are prohibited from any and all actions proscribed by OT law. "No longer required" does not equal "banned".

You originally got down this path by comparing the fatwah against the cartoonists to the price the US Govt. put on Osama. There is no place in the Bible that says it's ok to kill somebody for insulting you (especially with a cartoon :rolleyes: ), but there are places that talk about killing as an acceptable punishment for murder, of which Osama will not just admit his guilt, but brag about it.

[Jerk]

Cool verse, flyer. It's what God thinks of cops.

Yes, OT law (10 commandments) is still in effect. It's what we're judged by on Judgement Day - in the future when the dead are raised. Many of the OT traditions are long gone though.

[usmc-sooner]

actually the Bible says

There is a time to kill, a time for peace, a time for war.

[chriscappel]

actually the Bible says

There is a time to kill, a time for peace, a time for war.

You sure that isnt in the USMC field manual?? :D

[usmc-sooner]

To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: a time to be born and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; a time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
-- Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

[usmc-sooner]

You sure that isnt in the USMC field manual?? :D

you mean that's not the Bible? :D

[Penguin]

It's a song, not a Bible quote.


The Beatles and the Monkeys sang the song together at Woodstock.

[OUthunder]

Educate me. When is killing okay, according to the Bible. I'd also like to know whether the OT law is still in force or whether it was completely over-turned by the NT.

Thanks.

When someone is try to kill you?

[Stoop Dawg]

How can a guy who has already made his mind up be educated on the subject.

This one goes both ways. At least I'm asking for your clarifications instead of just saying "you're a dumbass".


The Bible teaches that if anyone breaks the law, the penalty is Death. It also teaches that everyone of us deserves death. Christ didn't do away with the law, he came to take the penalty of death for us. Paul said in

Romans 13

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Yes as individuals we are to turn the other cheek. That would probably solve a lot of problems. But murder and kill are two different things and if you murder someone and are to be put to death. It's what you deserve. You can be forgiven, but you still have to reap the consequence of your actions.

Thanks for the info. I do, however, have a few more questions:

Was the government of Iraq considered an "authority"? If "there is no authority except that which God has established", presumably there is some list somewhere of the authorities created by God and those that were not? Or is there some other way to tell which are the good authorities and which are the bad? I further presume that the U.S. is an authority created by God, since this is where we live and all.

Also, would it be fair to say that Christianity officially teaches violence (even death) against those who rebel against "authority"? If so, why do I hear so many Christians accuse Islam of being a "violent religion" when Christianity is apparently just as violent?

[Stoop Dawg]

You originally got down this path by comparing the fatwah against the cartoonists to the price the US Govt. put on Osama. There is no place in the Bible that says it's ok to kill somebody for insulting you (especially with a cartoon :rolleyes: ), but there are places that talk about killing as an acceptable punishment for murder, of which Osama will not just admit his guilt, but brag about it.

Yes, the question is definitely "when is it okay to kill someone". It appears that if you are punishing someone then it's okay. I wonder, though, if there is supposed to be some sort of judgement process.

Here's what I'm trying to figure out. I frequently hear Christians disparage Islam as being a "violent religion". I frequently hear those same Christians say things like "we should turn their entire country into a sheet of glass". I then hear Christians say "Look! The leaders of Islam are calling for more violence! What a horrible religion!". Then I hear them say "We should hunt down all terrorists and skin them alive".

Maybe the problem is that there are so many different people all with dramatically different views and they all call themselves "Christians". It gets quite confusing to those of us who are peering in from the outside.

[sanantoniosooner]

infidels just don't get it..........

[Okieflyer]

This one goes both ways. At least I'm asking for your clarifications instead of just saying "you're a dumbass".

I don't remember calling you a "dumbass"


Was the government of Iraq considered an "authority"? If "there is no authority except that which God has established", presumably there is some list somewhere of the authorities created by God and those that were not? Or is there some other way to tell which are the good authorities and which are the bad? I further presume that the U.S. is an authority created by God, since this is where we live and all.

Not worth the time. If I have to explain this, it's hopeless.


Also, would it be fair to say that Christianity officially teaches violence (even death) against those who rebel against "authority"? If so, why do I hear so many Christians accuse Islam of being a "violent religion" when Christianity is apparently just as violent?

Big difference between Justice and violence. Read last answer I gave.

[Stoop Dawg]

Here's what I'm trying to figure out. I frequently hear Christians disparage Islam as being a "violent religion". I frequently hear those same Christians say things like "we should turn their entire country into a sheet of glass". I then hear Christians say "Look! The leaders of Islam are calling for more violence! What a horrible religion!". Then I hear them say "We should hunt down all terrorists and skin them alive".

And yes, *I* know the difference between a terrorist and a cartoonist. *I* know the difference between tolerance of ideology and tolerance of morality. *I* am a strong advocate of protecting myself and my freedom - even with violence. But *I* do not condemn Islam (nor Christianity). And *I* do not profess to be a Christian and live by the Bible. Mostly because I believe one can interpret the Bible to say whatever one wants it to say (as evidenced by all of the conflicting views among those calling themselves Christian), rendering it useless.

[sanantoniosooner]

And *I* do not profess to be a Christian and live by the Bible. Mostly because I believe one can interpret the Bible to say whatever one wants it to say (as evidenced by all of the conflicting views among those calling themselves Christian), rendering it useless.
Bull.

You can interpret scriptures more than one way, but that doesn't reach the extrememe of "whatever one wants it to say".

Usless is a strong word for something that changes lives ever day.

[Octavian]

I havent read any of this thread...

Can someone bring me up to date in one post? TIA.

[Stoop Dawg]

Not worth the time. If I have to explain this, it's hopeless.

Kinda what I figured.

Anyone else know? Do I have to submit to the authority of the French govt when I'm in France? What if I go to India?

If you're going to submit yourself to the authority of a government, I damn sure hope you are able to tell if it's an authority created by God!!

[Okieflyer]

I believe one can interpret the Bible to say whatever one wants it to say (as evidenced by all of the conflicting views among those calling themselves Christian), rendering it useless.

Ha ha, yeah the way you read it you can. :D

[Stoop Dawg]

Bull.

You can interpret scriptures more than one way, but that doesn't reach the extrememe of "whatever one wants it to say".

Point taken.

I still contend that it can be interpreted in such a large number of ways as to be useless. I also contend that it's religion changing people's lives every day, not the Bible alone. I highly doubt that anyone could pick up the Bible (with no prior knowledge of religion) and get the Southern Baptist doctrine out of it. The Bible *needs* scholars to interpret it to make sense of it. When you take one scholar's interpretation you can make a powerful case. However, you also take another interpretation and make a completely different, yet equally powerful case. There are simply too many completely valid and yet conflicting interpretations to be able to say with any certainty that *this* is what the Bible says.

[Stoop Dawg]

Ha ha, yeah the way you read it you can. :D

And these people: http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_Practices/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects

[sanantoniosooner]

The part that makes the biggest difference in lives requires very little interpretation and has changes lives without the aid of scholars. You don't need to understand Old Testement tradition to understand the need for a saviour.

[Okieflyer]

Point taken.

I still contend that it can be interpreted in such a large number of ways as to be useless. I also contend that it's religion changing people's lives every day, not the Bible alone. I highly doubt that anyone could pick up the Bible (with no prior knowledge of religion) and get the Southern Baptist doctrine out of it. The Bible *needs* scholars to interpret it to make sense of it. When you take one scholar's interpretation you can make a powerful case. However, you also take another interpretation and make a completely different, yet equally powerful case. There are simply too many completely valid and yet conflicting interpretations to be able to say with any certainty that *this* is what the Bible says.

Once again, your misinformed. Most of the denominations intrepret the bible the same for every major issue. Some less important maybe interpreted different, but they aren't that big of a deal. And now tell us what you know about "Southern Baptist" doctrine.

[Stoop Dawg]

The part that makes the biggest difference in lives requires very little interpretation and has changes lives without the aid of scholars. You don't need to understand Old Testement tradition to understand the need for a saviour.

No, but you have to believe that you are in need of saving. The only reason I would need to be "saved" is if I were in some kind of danger. That *does* require an understanding (and belief) in Heaven and Hell, among other things.

[Okieflyer]

And these people: http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_Practices/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects

No what I meant was I doubt if you have ever picked it up and read it at all. :)

[Okieflyer]

No, but you have to believe that you are in need of saving. The only reason I would need to be "saved" is if I were in some kind of danger. That *does* require an understanding (and belief) in Heaven and Hell, among other things.

And time.

[sanantoniosooner]

No, but you have to believe that you are in need of saving. The only reason I would need to be "saved" is if I were in some kind of danger. That *does* require an understanding (and belief) in Heaven and Hell, among other things.
It only requires that you realize that your best efforts aren't making you happy and a search for something different.

[Stoop Dawg]

No what I meant was I doubt if you have ever picked it up and read it at all. :)

Your [sic] right. :rolleyes:

[usmc-sooner]

actually SD I doubt you've read it either,

the saving the Bible talks about isn't saving you from danger. It's about bestowing the glory of God upon you, all you have to do is ask.

How about this try it, give it a go for 6 months, 1 month, 1 year, just give it an honest effort, if you don't believe it can't hurt you but try a church, study the Bible and maybe you can understand.

I'm not going to mock you, I'm just saying don't knock it till you've tried it. Also keep in mind that the Bible says not all people who claim to be Christians are Christians so don't let the bad apples turn you off.

[Octavian]

Also keep in mind that the Bible says not all people who claim to be Christians are Christians so don't let the bad apples turn you off.

some damn good advice

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3686/idiots5ni.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=idiots5ni.jpg)

[usmc-sooner]

some damn good advice

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3686/idiots5ni.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=idiots5ni.jpg)


those idiots lost track of what Jesus preached a long time ago. I actually got to meet and speak with one of the guys who helped rally the bikers to drown them out at funerals. Cool guy and a Sooner fan.

[Stoop Dawg]

actually SD I doubt you've read it either,

the saving the Bible talks about isn't saving you from danger. It's about bestowing the glory of God upon you, all you have to do is ask.

How about this try it, give it a go for 6 months, 1 month, 1 year, just give it an honest effort, if you don't believe it can't hurt you but try a church, study the Bible and maybe you can understand.

I'm not going to mock you, I'm just saying don't knock it till you've tried it. Also keep in mind that the Bible says not all people who claim to be Christians are Christians so don't let the bad apples turn you off.

The saving is from eternal damnation of your soul. If that's not danger I don't know what is.

I grew up in church (A/G). Went 3 times a week for the first 21 years of my life. I gave it a shot. A very serious one. A very earnest one. I've done Bible studies, scripture memorization, etc. I've read the Bible. Almost all of it at one point or another. I know Christianity inside and out. I don't honestly claim to know whether there is or is not a God, but I do know that if there is one the majority of organized religion has missed His message completely. During college I finally started to question what I had been spoon-fed all my life. The answers were disturbing. Lots of double-speak and "trust God" and "just believe". That's okay for others, I suppose. But I ain't buying it.

I can honestly say that I'm happier right now in my life that I EVER have been. I respect those who follow Christianity. My parents are still devout. I think organized religion serves many useful purposes in society. I think that most of the moral teachings are dead on.

What bugs me is the lack of respect most Christians (or self-proclaimed Christians) show for those with differing beliefs. They claim that other's beliefs are wrong then mock them. They don't even see that their beliefs are no more founded in fact than anyone elses. They say "You can't question Chrstianity if you haven't even read the Bible!" then reject other religions without having read their Holy Book. When you try to debate them on it, they end up insulting you. I'm thick-skinned enough to either blow them off or call their bluff. I guess I shouldn't have said it "bugs" me. It would be more accurate to say that it "amuses" me.

Occasionally (as in this thread) I really just want to see if these blow-hards really know what they believe and why they believe it. Their position is really quite easy to defend (Dio did a fabulous job), but Jerk didn't know up from down until someone pointed it out for him. That's what's scary to me. People off towing the Christian line without even knowing what it is they believe or why they believe it. They just do as they're told and believe what's given them on Sunday morning. Sounds kinda like the people on the other side of the globe that they're so fond of mocking, doesn't it.

[Jerk]

What??? Didn't know up from down?

If that makes you feel better.

I told you that the correct translation is "Thou shall not murder" and someone just re-affirmed it after you snidely laughed it off. I guess I did know up from down after all.

AND LETS BE STRAIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING:


You're the one who keeps bringing religion into this...NOT ME. You're the one who first brought it up and continually brings it up. You are so desperate to prove that Christians are hypocrites....which was never the issue with me, and not something I really care about, but that's what you want to argue so badly that you can't help yourself from bringing up God into this. My point was simple: your logic on bounties is absurd. But you can't stop yourself from trying to make a very dumb comparison (comparing a bounty on a cartoonist to a bounty on a mass murderer) just so you can get your little dig in at Christians and prove your absurd point. You're spinning your wheels on this one.

"oh, look, those hypocritical Christians say "do not kill" but Bush puts a bounty on Osama!" OMG!!! That makes Christians just as evil as the Jihadists who want the cartoonists put to death!!!" CAN YOU NOT SEE THE UTTER STUPIDITY IN THIS KIND OF THINKING?

AND, I DO WHAT I'M TOLD ON SUNDAY???

Do you know how many times a fellow Christian has called me the "anti-christ" and said I'm going to Hell because I don't believe God will torture most of mankind forever and ever? You don't know jack about me or my beliefs, buddy. You don't know sh** about why I believe and how I got there. Don't tell me I'm one of the little robots.. I tell a fellow Christian that I don't believe in the pagan immortal soul, I believe in the resserrection of the dead, and they look at me like I told them I believe in evolution and *gasp* like I'm some sort of heretic. It completely drove me away from religion, but not from God. So quit assuming you know anything at all about me.

[Kels]

Once again, your misinformed. Most of the denominations intrepret the bible the same for every major issue. Some less important maybe interpreted different, but they aren't that big of a deal. And now tell us what you know about "Southern Baptist" doctrine.
Man, we get drug into everything . . . ;)

[sanantoniosooner]

Man, we get drug into everything . . . ;)
Stoop Dawg mentioned that denomination first. It was just a follow up comment.

[Kels]

Stoop Dawg mentioned that denomination first. It was just a follow up comment.

Yeah, I was adding to this pericope.

Yes, my pastor actually used "pericope" in a sermon a few weeks ago.

[SCOUT]

Here's what I'm trying to figure out. I frequently hear Christians disparage Islam as being a "violent religion". I frequently hear those same Christians say things like "we should turn their entire country into a sheet of glass". I then hear Christians say "Look! The leaders of Islam are calling for more violence! What a horrible religion!". Then I hear them say "We should hunt down all terrorists and skin them alive".

This is an absurd comparison. Christians making comments like you mention are similar to comments like, "I am so hungry I could eat a horse." It is a hyperbole to illustrate the point.

Islamists who call for Fatwah's, Jihads, etc. actually want to kill people. When you look at situations like these stupid cartoons, you realize that they have every intention of carrying out their threats.

Do you really not see a difference?

[Kels]

OK, my kidding aside. Here's an article by John Piper that weighs in on some of the things that Jerk and Stoop Dawg are talking about.

Being Mocked: The Essence of Christ's Work, Not Muhammad's
John Piper

What we saw in the past few weeks in the Islamic demonstrations over the Danish cartoons of Muhammad was another vivid depiction of the difference between Muhammad and Christ, and what it means to follow each. Not all Muslims approve the violence. But a deep lesson remains: The work of Muhammad is based on being honored and the work of Christ is based on being insulted. This produces two very different reactions to mockery.

If Christ had not been insulted, there would be no salvation. This was his saving work: to be insulted and die to rescue sinners from the wrath of God. Already in the Psalms the path of mockery was promised: “All who see me mock me; they make mouths at me; they wag their heads” (Psalm 22:7). “He was despised and rejected by men . . . as one from whom men hide their faces . . . and we esteemed him not” (Isaiah 53:3).

When it actually happened it was worse than expected. “They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, and twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on his head. . . . And kneeling before him, they mocked him, saying, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ And they spit on him” (Matthew 27:28-30). His response to all this was patient endurance. This was the work he came to do. “Like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth” (Isaiah 53:7).

This was not true of Muhammad. And Muslims do not believe it is true of Jesus. Most Muslims have been taught that Jesus was not crucified. One Sunni Muslim writes, “Muslims believe that Allah saved the Messiah from the ignominy of crucifixion.”[1] Another adds, “We honor [Jesus] more than you [Christians] do. . . . We refuse to believe that God would permit him to suffer death on the cross.”[2] An essential Muslim impulse is to avoid the “ignominy” of the cross.

That’s the most basic difference between Christ and Muhammad and between a Muslim and a follower of Christ. For Christ, enduring the mockery of the cross was the essence of his mission. And for a true follower of Christ enduring suffering patiently for the glory of Christ is the essence of obedience. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account” (Matthew 5:11). During his life on earth Jesus was called a bastard (John 8:41), a drunkard (Matthew 11:19), a blasphemer (Matthew 26:65), a devil (Matthew 10:25); and he promised his followers the same: “If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Matthew 10:25).

The caricature and mockery of Christ has continued to this day. Martin Scorsese portrayed Jesus in The Last Temptation of Christ as wracked with doubt and beset with sexual lust. Andres Serrano was funded by the National Endowment for the Arts to portray Jesus on a cross sunk in a bottle of urine. The Da Vinci Code portrays Jesus as a mere mortal who married and fathered children.

How should his followers respond? On the one hand, we are grieved and angered. On the other hand, we identify with Christ, and embrace his suffering, and rejoice in our afflictions, and say with the apostle Paul that vengeance belongs to the Lord, let us love our enemies and win them with the gospel. If Christ did his work by being insulted, we must do ours likewise.

When Muhammad was portrayed in twelve cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, the uproar across the Muslim world was intense and sometimes violent. Flags were burned, embassies were torched, and at least one Christian church was stoned. The cartoonists went into hiding in fear for their lives, like Salman Rushdie before them. What does this mean?

It means that a religion with no insulted Savior will not endure insults to win the scoffers. It means that this religion is destined to bear the impossible load of upholding the honor of one who did not die and rise again to make that possible. It means that Jesus Christ is still the only hope of peace with God and peace with man. And it means that his followers must be willing to “share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death” (Philippians 3:10).

[1] Badru D. Kateregga and David W. Shenk, Islam and Christianity: A Muslim and a Christian in Dialogue (Nairobi: Usima Press, 1980), p. 141.

[2] Quoted from The Muslim World in J. Dudley Woodberry, editor, Muslims and Christians on the Emmaus Road (Monrovia, CA: MARC, 1989), p.164.

[SoonerBorn68]

Your [sic] right. :rolleyes:

Grammar smack?...and arguing about the bible after admitting you've never read it? (with a :rolleyes: to boot). No negspek necessary, you've lost respect.