View Full Version : You Believe in Aliens?
Octavian
2/20/2006, 07:53 PM
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5529/a9ez.th.png (http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a9ez.png)
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7829/grey5ys.th.png (http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grey5ys.png)
http://img414.imageshack.us/img414/5126/q7nh.th.png (http://img414.imageshack.us/my.php?image=q7nh.png)
http://img414.imageshack.us/img414/6012/as8vb.th.png (http://img414.imageshack.us/my.php?image=as8vb.png)
http://www.illegalaliens.us/images/Amnesty%20Seeking%20Illegal%20Aliens.JPG
interesting question, but doesn't really have a yes or no answer for me. believing implies that one would think they have to exist, somewhere. and I don't...it is entirely within the realm of plausibility that the rest of space is completely devoid of life. seems like a prety big waste if it is, but there is nothing to suggest that it isn't. but there is no reason for me to believe that they don't exist either. maybe they do, maybe they don't.
therefore, I give no answer.
Yes because...
http://www.tmdrfan.com/tmdr/discography/albums/aamb/images/aamb_cd_cover.jpg
Octavian
2/20/2006, 08:31 PM
interesting question, but doesn't really have a yes or no answer for me. believing implies that one would think they have to exist, somewhere. and I don't...it is entirely within the realm of plausibility that the rest of space is completely devoid of life. seems like a prety big waste if it is, but there is nothing to suggest that it isn't. but there is no reason for me to believe that they don't exist either. maybe they do, maybe they don't.
therefore, I give no answer.
good points. But I still think "believe" is probably the right word. There's no concrete evidence to prove or disprove ET existence.
If there was a "jury is still out" option, everyone would rightly choose that.
So...
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5613/vote2ho.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vote2ho.jpg)
;)
Frozen Sooner
2/20/2006, 08:32 PM
The Fermi Paradox is a kind of neat thought experiment that some have taken to prove that there are no aliens:
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/shostak_paradox_011024.html
Me, I dunno. I don't know that we'd even recognize alien life for life at first. I mean, I'm sure that there's SOME kind of life on other planets, but does it ever acheive even sentience? Will we EVER know, given the enormity of space and the shortness of human lifespans?
The Fermi Paradox is a kind of neat thought experiment that some have taken to prove that there are no aliens:
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/shostak_paradox_011024.html
Me, I dunno. I don't know that we'd even recognize alien life for life at first. I mean, I'm sure that there's SOME kind of life on other planets, but does it ever acheive even sentience? Will we EVER know, given the enormity of space and the shortness of human lifespans?
I thought our planet was evidence that there are other civilizations out there. I mean how else could life on our planet begin, but with the crash of a giant space ship carrying nothing but some other civilizations middle managers
Frozen Sooner
2/20/2006, 08:37 PM
And telephone sanitizers. Don't forget the telephone sanitizers.
Penguin
2/20/2006, 08:42 PM
Yes, I believe in aliens. I mean, if it weren't aliens, then who else could have been anally probing me throughout my childhood?
OKC Sooner
2/20/2006, 08:42 PM
Well, if there aren't aliens now, these folks are planning on starting some...
http://www.panspermia-society.com/
And Francis Crick (of Nobel Prize DNA fame) believed that panspermia is how we got here.
http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/20hist11.htm#Rocket%20Sperm
Oh yeah, before someone else says it.... "The Truth Is Out There"
[cue X-File theme]
also froze, the fermi paradox forgets that colonization or empirical dominion over a solar system or even a set of solar systems or galaxy or something else immediately runs into the fifth fundamental force of nature: bureaucratic inertia. actually being able to mobilize a civilised people to should spend gobs of their resources in an endeavour that could have a million different possible outcomes, regardless of spaceship speed is no small task, and could wind up adding several orders of magnitude to the timescale needed for such colonization....
Penguin
2/20/2006, 08:51 PM
also froze, the fermi paradox forgets that colonization or empirical dominion over a solar system or even a set of solar systems or galaxy or something else immediately runs into the fifth fundamental force of nature: bureaucratic inertia. actually being able to mobilize a civilised people to should spend gobs of their resources in an endeavour that could have a million different possible outcomes, regardless of spaceship speed is no small task, and could wind up adding several orders of magnitude to the timescale needed for such colonization....
Yep. Aliens are cute and fuzzy and anally-curious.
Frozen Sooner
2/20/2006, 08:56 PM
also froze, the fermi paradox forgets that colonization or empirical dominion over a solar system or even a set of solar systems or galaxy or something else immediately runs into the fifth fundamental force of nature: bureaucratic inertia. actually being able to mobilize a civilised people to should spend gobs of their resources in an endeavour that could have a million different possible outcomes, regardless of spaceship speed is no small task, and could wind up adding several orders of magnitude to the timescale needed for such colonization....
Agreed-like I said, it's an interesting thought experiment. Kinda like how nobody ever actually PUTS a cat in a box with an isotope with one minute half-life...
JohnnyMack
2/20/2006, 09:02 PM
Agreed-like I said, it's an interesting thought experiment. Kinda like how nobody ever actually PUTS a cat in a box with an isotope with one minute half-life...
Pussies.
Heh.
Agreed-like I said, it's an interesting thought experiment. Kinda like how nobody ever actually PUTS a cat in a box with an isotope with one minute half-life...
welll.....almost nobody
:D
walkoffsooner
2/20/2006, 09:15 PM
I thought aliens were illegal.
SicEmBaylor
2/20/2006, 09:16 PM
I don't need to believe in aliens. Life in College Station is strange enough.
royalfan5
2/20/2006, 09:17 PM
I have to think odds are against us being alone in the Universe. Personally, I hope it turns out the other plants with life are just carbon copies of Earth, either that it would be sweet if everything about Star Trek was dead on. Plus what about other dimensions and what not.
RacerX
2/20/2006, 09:26 PM
You guys need an adjustment.
Just sayin'.
sooneron
2/20/2006, 09:28 PM
I have to think odds are against us being alone in the Universe. Personally, I hope it turns out the other plants with life are just carbon copies of Earth, either that it would be sweet if everything about Star Trek was dead on. Plus what about other dimensions and what not.
Pretty much agree here. I believe in the chance that there is life out there. I know the theologists will have a field day, but it's pretty arrogant to think all the stars and systems in the sky were created just for us to look at.
We'll make great pets.
Plus what about other dimensions and what not.
they are just there to make the string theorists feel better....
SicEmBaylor
2/20/2006, 10:20 PM
Its been my experiance that the only people, other than those who study the field, who question the universe and our existence (usually in teh form of "hey what if we're really just in someone's petri dish)are pot heads.
I just have a very hard time believing that we as humans are as smart as it gets.
yermom
2/20/2006, 10:29 PM
We'll make great pets.
:D
i'm thinking that even if other life springs up somewhere the odds that it happens before we go the way of the dinosaur is pretty slim
or that it's anywhere near us to be able to communicate or travel between the planets within anyone's lifetime
Its been my experiance that the only people, other than those who study the field, who question the universe and our existence (usually in teh form of "hey what if we're really just in someone's petri dish)are pot heads.
ummmm....if this is in reference to the 'extra dimensions' bit, you are way off base on what extra dimensions mean I think....its pretty well established that the universe exists in 3+1 dimensions....unless you are a string theorist, and then there have to be at least 10 or the pretty math you work on has no chance at ever describing reality.
RacerX
2/21/2006, 12:13 AM
http://www.figmentfly.com/bb/Images/newbbcover.jpg
:D
Octavian
2/21/2006, 12:22 AM
i'm thinking that even if other life springs up somewhere the odds that it happens before we go the way of the dinosaur is pretty slim
but if a species (like the dinos) existed millions of years ago and didn't experience a global catastrophe...their civilization could be millions of years more advanced than humans
or that it's anywhere near us to be able to communicate or travel between the planets within anyone's lifetime
what about manipulated wormholes? I really don't know.
Is that theoretically possible? Ike?
SicEmBaylor
2/21/2006, 12:26 AM
ummmm....if this is in reference to the 'extra dimensions' bit, you are way off base on what extra dimensions mean I think....its pretty well established that the universe exists in 3+1 dimensions....unless you are a string theorist, and then there have to be at least 10 or the pretty math you work on has no chance at ever describing reality.
lol no, I wasn't referring to any post in particular. I'm a poli-sci major so you'll have to forgive my ignorance of any subject that matters. :D
SoonerWood
2/21/2006, 12:33 AM
there should be a "don't not believe" answer :D
Also, what dimension is thought in?
GottaHavePride
2/21/2006, 12:34 AM
The surest sign that intelligent life exists is that it hasn't tried to contact us. [/Calvin&Hobbes]
critical_phil
2/21/2006, 12:50 AM
And Francis Crick (of Nobel Prize DNA fame) believed that panspermia is how we got here.
did he steal that idea too???
but if a species (like the dinos) existed millions of years ago and didn't experience a global catastrophe...their civilization could be millions of years more advanced than humans
what about manipulated wormholes? I really don't know.
Is that theoretically possible? Ike?
from what I understand, and I really don't pay as much attention to astrophysics as maybe I should, the jury is still out on the theoretical possibility of wormholes at all...from what I understand, theoretically, they should be able to exist...but if that were true, travelling through them, much less manipulating them would be a bit problematic due to the intense gravity around them....
of course, I could be all wrong about that.
but if a species (like the dinos) existed millions of years ago and didn't experience a global catastrophe...their civilization could be millions of years more advanced than humans
this idea brings up another salient point. aliens don't have to be intelligent. assuming that there are other planets out there that are supporting life (and not just capable of it), what are the chances of an intelligent species existing on such a planet? how many species of life are there on our own? its a pretty damn big number, and implies that the probability of a life supporting planet hosting an intelligent species is likely very very very low.
Frozen Sooner
2/21/2006, 01:20 AM
Dude, I brought that up like a page ago.
Not only that, but would we be able to communicate in any meaningful way with a truly alien intelligence?
There was an Asimov (I think) story once where men encountered aliens who actually had a different mathematics and therefore physics than we did. Something about the speed of light through different media paradox.
Dude, I brought that up like a page ago.
Not only that, but would we be able to communicate in any meaningful way with a truly alien intelligence?
There was an Asimov (I think) story once where men encountered aliens who actually had a different mathematics and therefore physics than we did. Something about the speed of light through different media paradox.
math....1+1 is always 2, even to aliens.
they could have a different framework for communicating math, but math is math...
(sorry if I skimmed over your post...I don't actually read these threads)
Frozen Sooner
2/21/2006, 01:26 AM
See, that was the deal. The aliens didn't instinctually grasp the concept of causation, so the concept of taking one thing and adding it to another to produce another number was foreign. 1+1 was extremely advanced math for them, while quantum physics was their basic arithmatic.
See, that was the deal. The aliens didn't instinctually grasp the concept of causation, so the concept of taking one thing and adding it to another to produce another number was foreign. 1+1 was extremely advanced math for them, while quantum physics was their basic arithmatic.
thats ok too...the thing is, the principles are the same no matter where you are in the universe. which means that even though it might be rough at first, one can demonstrate knowledge of these principles, and then attach a word or something else to it and begin establishing a framework for communication. it'd be slow going for sure, but its possible I bet.
and if it's not, well, we can just assume they are hostile and kill them....I'm sure we'd do this anyway eventually.
Frozen Sooner
2/21/2006, 01:37 AM
Only if they had oil or something.
And yeah, the humans eventually established a dialogue with the aliens (the more I think about it, this wasn't an Asimov story. I'm going to have to look for it...)
Here's the thing, though: perception shapes referents. Referents shape language. Once mathematical communication was establish, what's to say that we could even begin to develop a language with which meaningful communication would be possible? We might not even have the same set of senses as them-or only share one or two. Can you imagine trying to come up with a common vocabulary for a race that primarily communicates with a sense that we've never even heard of and only shares a sense of smell with us?
Only if they had oil or something.
And yeah, the humans eventually established a dialogue with the aliens (the more I think about it, this wasn't an Asimov story. I'm going to have to look for it...)
Here's the thing, though: perception shapes referents. Referents shape language. Once mathematical communication was establish, what's to say that we could even begin to develop a language with which meaningful communication would be possible? We might not even have the same set of senses as them-or only share one or two. Can you imagine trying to come up with a common vocabulary for a race that primarily communicates with a sense that we've never even heard of and only shares a sense of smell with us?
yeah, it would be wierd. I'd like to think that evolution wouldn't allow such a species to become intelligent. seems like such a species would have a high rate of accidental death.
Frozen Sooner
2/21/2006, 01:46 AM
Why do you think so? Perhaps conditions on their planet would favor such. Perhaps they have senses that are actually better adapted to survival than ours. edit: How tough would it be to come up with conditions favorable to life that would not be condusive a highly-developed auditory sense? Say a planet with a thin atmosphere through which sound didn't carry well?
Ever read Richard Dawkins? He talks about humancentricity in a couple of his books-the natural assumption of humans to think of ourselves as more evolved than anything else on the planet. Now, I'm sure someone religious is going to take offense at this (what with the Book of Genesis saying what it does about man being created in the image of God) but it may be that homo sapiens sapiens isn't the be-all and end-all of adaptation to life in the universe.
Frozen Sooner
2/21/2006, 01:49 AM
For what it's worth, about the only reason I'm still up right now is because I'm interested in this conversation. First day of work manana.
Octavian
2/21/2006, 01:55 AM
I would think extremely advanced species could communicate telepathically.
Dolphins can do this to a certain extent I think. They've flourished in earth's oceans for much much longer than homo sapiens have on land.
Why do you think so? Perhaps conditions on their planet would favor such. Perhaps they have senses that are actually better adapted to survival than ours. edit: How tough would it be to come up with conditions favorable to life that would not be condusive a highly-developed auditory sense? Say a planet with a thin atmosphere through which sound didn't carry well?
Ever read Richard Dawkins? He talks about humancentricity in a couple of his books-the natural assumption of humans to think of ourselves as more evolved than anything else on the planet. Now, I'm sure someone religious is going to take offense at this (what with the Book of Genesis saying what it does about man being created in the image of God) but it may be that homo sapiens sapiens isn't the be-all and end-all of adaptation to life in the universe.
I haven't read much dawkins...but the reason we are susceptible to humancentricity is simply that the only (semi-, sub-, uber- ?)intelligent life form we have ever been in contact with is ourselves...its difficult to imagine an intelligent species that is 100% different from ourselves.
I would think extremely advanced species could communicate telepathically.
no, I think a telepathic species would kill itself off very quickly....or at least if we could communicate telepathically, we'd kill ourselves off rather quickly....thought police and all...because you know it would happen.
olevetonahill
2/21/2006, 07:07 AM
ever put a bug in a shoe box ?
poke holes in the lid ? have you ever felt like an ant in an ant farm ?
Get outside and look up . I do :confused:
soonerbrat
2/21/2006, 07:40 AM
We'll make great pets.
some will make better pets than others...
soonerbrat
2/21/2006, 07:41 AM
I like aliens.
olevetonahill
2/21/2006, 08:36 AM
some will make better pets than others...
:P
Yes, of course. (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/)
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/Alien022006a.jpg
GottaHavePride
2/22/2006, 12:56 AM
Only if they had oil or something.
Nah, they've all shifted to slood by now, since it's slightly easier to discover than fire, and only slightly more difficult to discover than water.
Frozen Sooner
2/22/2006, 01:25 AM
Jeez, I can't even imagine a world where people were so stupid that they didn't even know about slood.
Yep, that's me. The walking conpendium of wacky British send-ups of genre writing.
william_brasky
2/22/2006, 06:30 AM
f*** aliens.
be on the watch for werewolves. i saw one sippin' a pina colada at trader vic's.
LoyalFan
2/22/2006, 08:22 AM
Aliens? You want proof of the existence of aliens?
Just head on down to the southern border. You'll see the &^@%$! streaming across; some to work, some to steal, all to suck our welfare system dry, others to transport drugs, and God knows how many intent on the destruction of our nation.
Put the Cavalry on the border! It's time to bring back the horse and the saber. In the meantime, mines, razor wire, and some Aussie "salty" crocs in the river would be lovely.
LoyalFan
Pithed orf in South Texas
Why do you think so? Perhaps conditions on their planet would favor such. Perhaps they have senses that are actually better adapted to survival than ours. edit: How tough would it be to come up with conditions favorable to life that would not be condusive a highly-developed auditory sense? Say a planet with a thin atmosphere through which sound didn't carry well?
Ever read Richard Dawkins? He talks about humancentricity in a couple of his books-the natural assumption of humans to think of ourselves as more evolved than anything else on the planet. Now, I'm sure someone religious is going to take offense at this (what with the Book of Genesis saying what it does about man being created in the image of God) but it may be that homo sapiens sapiens isn't the be-all and end-all of adaptation to life in the universe.
Since you mentioned Dawkins, greater biological complexity does not necessarily mean greater evolutionary success. This would be defined as propagating more offspring (replicating one's genome), and we can't compare in that area to various microorganisms, invertebrates, plants, and others.
Frozen Sooner
2/22/2006, 11:34 AM
Yes, though I'd say that's a bit of an oversimplification.
Yes, though I'd say that's a bit of an oversimplification.
Not really. The Selfish Gene has one goal, and that's to make copies of itself, everything else is window dressing.
NormanPride
2/22/2006, 12:15 PM
I just hope it doesn't come to this...
http://70.86.201.113/imageserv2/temporary/PBF083ADExecutiveDecision.jpg
mdklatt
2/22/2006, 04:58 PM
Yes, I believe in aliens. I mean, if it weren't aliens, then who else could have been anally probing me throughout my childhood?
Did the "aliens" always show up when Uncle Lonnie was visiting?
crawfish
2/22/2006, 05:26 PM
http://www.personal.usyd.edu.au/~jboy1609/LJ/i_want_to_believe.jpg
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