From the Mayor of Tall 'Afar, Iraq

[SicEmBaylor]

A heart warming letter to our troops...

To the troops of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment:


In the Name of God the Compassionate and Merciful

To the Courageous Men and Women of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, who have changed the city of Tall’ Afar from a ghost town, in which terrorists spread death and destruction, to a secure city flourishing with life.

To the lion-hearts who liberated our city from the grasp of terrorists who were beheading men, women and children in the streets for many months.

To those who spread smiles on the faces of our children, and gave us restored hope, through their personal sacrifice and brave fighting, and gave new life to the city after hopelessness darkened our days, and stole our confidence in our ability to reestablish our city.

Our city was the main base of operations for Abu Mousab Al Zarqawi. The city was completely held hostage in the hands of his henchmen. Our schools, governmental services, businesses and offices were closed. Our streets were silent, and no one dared to walk them. Our people were barricaded in their homes out of fear; death awaited them around every corner. Terrorists occupied and controlled the only hospital in the city. Their savagery reached such a level that they stuffed the corpses of children with explosives and tossed them into the streets in order to kill grieving parents attempting to retrieve the bodies of their young. This was the situation of our city until God prepared and delivered unto them the courageous soldiers of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, who liberated this city, ridding it of Zarqawi’s followers after harsh fighting, killing many terrorists, and forcing the remaining butchers to flee the city like rats to the surrounding areas, where the bravery of other 3d ACR soldiers in Sinjar, Rabiah, Zumar and Avgani finally destroyed them.

I have met many soldiers of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment; they are not only courageous men and women, but avenging angels sent by The God Himself to fight the evil of terrorism.

The leaders of this Regiment; COL McMaster, COL Armstrong, LTC Hickey, LTC Gibson, and LTC Reilly embody courage, strength, vision and wisdom. Officers and soldiers alike bristle with the confidence and character of knights in a bygone era. The mission they have accomplished, by means of a unique military operation, stands among the finest military feats to date in Operation Iraqi Freedom, and truly deserves to be studied in military science. This military operation was clean, with little collateral damage, despite the ferocity of the enemy. With the skill and precision of surgeons they dealt with the terrorist cancers in the city without causing unnecessary damage.

God bless this brave Regiment; God bless the families who dedicated these brave men and women. From the bottom of our hearts we thank the families. They have given us something we will never forget. To the families of those who have given their holy blood for our land, we all bow to you in reverence and to the souls of your loved ones. Their sacrifice was not in vain. They are not dead, but alive, and their souls hovering around us every second of every minute. They will never be forgotten for giving their precious lives. They have sacrificed that which is most valuable. We see them in the smile of every child, and in every flower growing in this land. Let America, their families, and the world be proud of their sacrifice for humanity and life.

Finally, no matter how much I write or speak about this brave Regiment, I haven’t the words to describe the courage of its officers and soldiers. I pray to God to grant happiness and health to these legendary heroes and their brave families.

NAJIM ABDULLAH ABID AL-JIBOURI
Mayor of Tall ‘Afar, Ninewa, Iraq

[pb4ou]

nice

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Shhh..the media doesn't want anyone to know about this!!!!

[Hatfield]

Shhh..the media doesn't want anyone to know about this!!!!

but the our gov't does since they probably wrote it. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

but the our gov't does since they probably wrote it. ;)

the sad thing is that people like you actually believe that crap

[Hatfield]

even sadder is your apparent lack of understanding what ;) means.

[Sooner in Tampa]

the sad thing is that people like you actually believe that crapIt is very sad...people actually think that there are not any people in Iraq that actually appreciate the things that we have done for them.

[JohnnyMack]

the sad thing is that people like you actually believe that crap

Ummm, the Pentagon admitted that it paid the Lincoln Group to plant stories in the Iraqi press.

[jk the sooner fan]

even sadder is your apparent lack of understanding what ;) means.

even sadder that with your track record, the concept of hiding truth with humor wouldnt be too farfetched

[Hatfield]

sadder still is you apparently live such a life with utter contempt for your fellow americans that hold different political views from your own that you can't take a step back and just enjoy harmless fun on a message board with a post that was obviously posted in good fun.

:)

[Howzit]

Old Yeller. Now, that was SAD.

[jk the sooner fan]

sadder still is you apparently live such a life with utter contempt for your fellow americans that hold different political views from your own that you can't take a step back and just enjoy harmless fun on a message board with a post that was obviously posted in good fun.

:)

i served 21 years in the military so that you could share your different opinion

i have zero problems with your different opinion

you say "all in good fun".....i cant remember you ever posting one positive thing about the efforts of our soldiers in iraq

[Stanley1]

He writes pretty good English.

;)

[pb4ou]

I got 5 dollars on JK that he could take Hatfield in a wrestlin' match

[jk the sooner fan]

Old Yeller. Now, that was SAD.

when Piccolo died.......that was sad

why does the slow white running back always get it?

[KABOOKIE]

I got 5 dollars on JK that he could take Hatfield in a wrestlin' match


Is the wrestlin' match in Jello or mud? :D

[Hatfield]

I got 5 dollars on JK that he could take Hatfield in a wrestlin' match

rethink that I grew being trained in a cage by the Great Kabookie, the Iron Sheik, and Abdullah the Butcher......oh wait we are talking about the real wrasslin...not the fake stuff they do in the olympics right?

[Howzit]

when Piccolo died.......that was sad

ooh, good call.

[JohnnyMack]

No really, why should we believe this article? I don't believe much when it comes from the Bush junta in regards to Iraq, except sadly maybe the casualty numbers (and those are probably skewed too, seeing as they don't have to report contractors, i.e. mercenaries on their list).

[pb4ou]

Is the wrestlin' match in Jello or mud? :D

neither - frosting


rethink that I grew being trained in a cage by the Great Kabookie, the Iron Sheik, and Abdullah the Butcher......oh wait we are talking about the real wrasslin...not the fake stuff they do in the olympics right?

The kind they do on ladies night at the Double Duece in Backwater Kentucky

[Stanley1]

Mmm.....frosting.

[Beef]

rethink that I grew being trained in a cage by the Great Kabookie, the Iron Sheik, and Abdullah the Butcher......oh wait we are talking about the real wrasslin...not the fake stuff they do in the olympics right?
Shouldn't your location be "Unknown"?

And ABDULLAH THE BUTCHER CUTS NIL!!!!!!

[Hatfield]

I may have to call on the spirit of the Fabulous Moolah.

[Sooner in Tampa]

No really, why should we believe this article? I don't believe much when it comes from the Bush junta in regards to Iraq, except sadly maybe the casualty numbers (and those are probably skewed too, seeing as they don't have to report contractors, i.e. mercenaries on their list).
http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/attentionwhore2.jpg

[jk the sooner fan]

No really, why should we believe this article? I don't believe much when it comes from the Bush junta in regards to Iraq, except sadly maybe the casualty numbers (and those are probably skewed too, seeing as they don't have to report contractors, i.e. mercenaries on their list).

disprove it with some actual specific facts, and i'll join you

[pb4ou]

:eek: it's too early for my poor eyes

[Howzit]

disprove it with some actual specific facts, and i'll join you

OR, come up with a sadder movie than Old Yeller or Brian's Song, JohnnyMack. The choice is yours.

[crawfish]

*sigh*.

More butt shots.

When will it end?

[crawfish]

OR, come up with a sadder movie than Old Yeller or Brian's Song, JohnnyMack. The choice is yours.

Star Trek II.

[Howzit]

At least it didn't something nasty growing on it.

[crawfish]

At least it didn't something nasty growing on it.

IT HAD A NAKED GUY GROWING ON IT!!!!!

There's nothing grosser. :mad:

[jk the sooner fan]

OR, come up with a sadder movie than Old Yeller or Brian's Song, JohnnyMack. The choice is yours.

not a movie, but i was watching a predators show on discovery the other day and several really sad things happened

1 - a great white shark ate a seal.....

2 - a hyena killed a lion cub - it was REALLY cute...never even got to kill its own antelope

such a shame

[Widescreen]

OR, come up with a sadder movie than Old Yeller or Brian's Song, JohnnyMack. The choice is yours.
1. Where the Red Fern Grows (original version)
2. Something for Joey - man, when Capaletti gave his Heisman speech, I lost it.

Oh, and that letter rawks.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Steele Magnolias...when Julia Roberts dies.

[jk the sooner fan]

2. Something for Joey - man, when Capaletti gave his Heisman speech, I lost it.



oh man, a slow white running back dying is trumped by a slow white running back giving a speech for his kid brother

gulp....

[Beef]

I may have to call on the spirit of the Fabulous Moolah.
You have a problem with Gino Hernandez?

[Hatfield]

Steele Magnolias...when Julia Roberts dies.

Julia Roberts dies????:mad:

[Sooner in Tampa]

http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/threadhijack.jpg

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/attentionwhore2.jpg

http://www.saskschools.ca/~gregory/arctic/animals/lemming01.jpg

[Sooner in Tampa]

http://www.saskschools.ca/~gregory/arctic/animals/lemming01.jpg
http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/giveafckometer.gif

[JohnnyMack]

OR, come up with a sadder movie than Old Yeller or Brian's Song, JohnnyMack. The choice is yours.

E.T.

[Herr Scholz]

No really, why should we believe this article? I don't believe much when it comes from the Bush junta in regards to Iraq, except sadly maybe the casualty numbers (and those are probably skewed too, seeing as they don't have to report contractors, i.e. mercenaries on their list).
Honestly, this administration ran out of credibility a while ago concerning this war. A couple of other quotes from Bush that were less than truthful:

"Anyone involved with this Valerie Plame leak will be fired..." (Bush before Karl Rove was proven to be involved)

"All of our wire taps have warrants..." (in a 2005 Bush speech in Buffalo as shown on 'Meet the Press' day before yesterday)

[SCOUT]

Are you guys so blinded by your hate for Bush that you can't even acknowledge that some good things are happening in Iraq?

[jk the sooner fan]

Are you guys so blinded by your hate for Bush that you can't even acknowledge that some good things are happening in Iraq?

exactly......

[Herr Scholz]

Are you guys so blinded by your hate for Bush that you can't even acknowledge that some good things are happening in Iraq?
No, I think our troops are doing a phenomenal job over there. They're very brave and they've enable the Iraqis to make great strides in terms of self governing.

On the other hand, I'm skeptical of most of the words that come out of Bush's mouth. I don't think the two positions are mutually exclusive.

[Herr Scholz]

exactly......
I went. Now you make a criticism of our administration, Mr. Objective.

[SCOUT]

No, I think our troops are doing a phenomenal job over there. They're very brave and they've enable the Iraqis to make great strides in terms of self governing.

On the other hand, I'm skeptical of most of the words that come out of Bush's mouth. I don't think the two positions are mutually exclusive.

But this is from the mouth of an Iraqi Mayor.

[Herr Scholz]

But this is from the mouth of an Iraqi Mayor.
If you say so. He probably has a Bush writer on staff.

[SCOUT]

If you say so. He probably has a Bush writer on staff.

Link?

[OklahomaTuba]

All the more reason to get our murderous nazi like troops out of there.

When Bush and his Halliburton cronies have to resort to faking letters from the NeoKKKon's puppet government, (not to mention creating hurricanes to kill black people) then you know "Bush's War" is a complete and utter failure. This just proves what a quagmire we are in.

Like SoonerScuba and JM, LAS, Al Herr and other sage and wise appeasement monkeys have told us all these many years, our troops our doing only bad in Iraq, killing innocent people (wasn't it 200,000+ Scuba?), destroying and terrorizing lives of those who choose to live in peace and happiness under brave freedom fighters like Zarqawi, who dare to stand up to BushHitler and his imperialistic neoKKKon war for oil and profit.

If only we could see a day where we were safer at home, and more respected in the world.

Where we didn't fight this "idea" of wiring ones self with explosives to kill innocent people or attacking skyscrapers with planes and blowing public transportation (also called terrorism by some more closed minded types).

A world in which we could just sit back, seal ourselves off from the rest of the world, stick our fingers in our ears, our heads in the sand, and drop our pants around our ankles while bending over watching the rest of the would live in peace and harmony, free from American imperialism, while also helping themselves to the oil we shouldn't be having to power our earth destroying cars, planes and heating our homes and such.

Only then will we live in a truly honorable world me thinks. A world people like Hat and Herr can only dream about. A fantasyland.

[jk the sooner fan]

I went. Now you make a criticism of our administration, Mr. Objective.

you went where?

you sure as hell didnt display any objectivity by giving the administration any credit

you applauded the soldiers.....great, its the apple pie thing to do

show me something positive about the actual administration

quit crediting Bush for having said something that an iraqi actually said

[NormanPride]

See, if I was a mod, I'd say:

"You know what was really sad? When this thread died."

And close it. That would be funny.

Seriously. You people suck. I was all ready to chant "USA! USA!" but then you got all serious and pessimistic about it.

EDIT: Rudy was sad when Notre Dame won. :(

[JohnnyMack]

All the more reason to get our murderous nazi like troops out of there.

When Bush and his Halliburton cronies have to resort to faking letters from the NeoKKKon's puppet government, (not to mention creating hurricanes to kill black people) then you know "Bush's War" is a complete and utter failure. This just proves what a quagmire we are in.

Like SoonerScuba and JM and LAS and other sage and wise appeasement monkeys have told us all these many years, our troops our doing only bad in Iraq, killing innocent people (wasn't it 200,000+ Scuba?), destroying and terrorizing lives of those who choose to live in peace and happiness under brave freedom fighters like Zarqawi, who dare to stand up to BushHitler and his imperialistic neoKKKon war for oil and profit.

If only we could see a day where we were safer at home, and more respected in the world.

Where we didn't fight this "idea" of wiring ones self with explosives to kill innocent people or attacking skyscrapers with planes and public transportation (also called terrorism).

A world in which we could just sit back, seal ourselves off from the rest of the world, stick our fingers in our ears, our heads in the sand, and drop our pants around or ankles while the rest of the would lives in peace from American imperialism, while also helping themselves to the oil we shouldn't be having to power our earth destroying cars and planes and TVs and such.

Only then will we live in a truly honorable world me thinks.

You are ****ing crazy. Also don't associate me with being against our troops. I hope (here's your apple pie comment JK, so you don't go McCarthy on me) they do their job, keep their heads down and get home safe.

Also Tuba for the 68th time Zarqawi wasn't in Iraq until long after we took over.

I think you people will find that I don't hate all of W's policies, I just think Iraq is a clusterfu*k of monumental proportions and that it rests squarely on his shoulders.

[JohnnyMack]

show me something positive about the actual administration

Cheney has good aim.

[jk the sooner fan]

JM - my comments were directed at herr.....i guess my problem is that people (you included) will p.i.s.s all over anything positive simply because you hate bush so much

yeah the war is his responsibility, no doubt

[KABOOKIE]

"Anyone involved with this Valerie Plame leak will be fired..." (Bush before Karl Rove was proven to be involved)

Wrong :rolleyes:


"All of our wire taps have warrants..." (in a 2005 Bush speech in Buffalo as shown on 'Meet the Press' day before yesterday)

Wrong :rolleyes:

[Herr Scholz]

JM - my comments were directed at herr.....i guess my problem is that people (you included) will p.i.s.s all over anything positive simply because you hate bush so much

yeah the war is his responsibility, no doubt
All I said was that I don't believe what the man says. I think there's ample evidence to back that up. He has no credibility.

What about his bald faced lie last year that he had warrants for all the wire taps? There's no grey area there. That's a lie to cover up what a lot of people believe to be infringing on the constitution and ignoring the law.

[jk the sooner fan]

having a "conversation" with somebody who is so extreme to the left.......well, now i know how those of you who debate tuba feel

;)

[Herr Scholz]

Wrong :rolleyes:
He did so say that whoever was involved with the leak would be dismissed. Then he changed it to criminally liable after Rove was proven to be involved. That's the truth.


Wrong :rolleyes:
I watched excerpts from the speech myself on Sunday. He said there were was a warrant on every single wire tap, a bald faced lie. This program has been going on for 4 years.

Don't know what you're talking about at all.

[Hatfield]

See, if I was a mod, I'd say:

"You know what was really sad? When this thread died."

And close it. That would be funny.

Seriously. You people suck. I was all ready to chant "USA! USA!" but then you got all serious and pessimistic about it.


i don't see any references to old wrasslers or sad movies in that tirade.

[Herr Scholz]

having a "conversation" with somebody who is so extreme to the left.......well, now i know how those of you who debate tuba feel

;)
A majority of Americans agree with me. What's his approval rating again? The latest Gallup/CNN poll says 39% of Americans agree with Bush's job performance. I imagine a large part of that has to do with trust issues.

[jk the sooner fan]

A majority of Americans agree with me. What's his approval rating again?

if you think a majority of americans agree with your extreme views, then you are more delusional than i ever thought

[Hatfield]

i think tuba's approval rating is like at 6.3%

[Herr Scholz]

if you think a majority of americans agree with your extreme views, then you are more delusional than i ever thought
39% of Americans think he's doing a good job. Spin that.

[jk the sooner fan]

39% of Americans think he's doing a good job. Spin that.

please dont flatter yourself by lumping your extreme views in with the moderates who disapprove but think differently

trust me, you're so far from mainstream america, its not funny

[NormanPride]

i don't see any references to old wrasslers or sad movies in that tirade.

Fixed it for ya. :D

[Herr Scholz]

please dont flatter yourself by lumping your extreme views in with the moderates who disapprove but think differently

trust me, you're so far from mainstream america, its not funny
Good spin. Well done. I don't agree with the job Bush has done but the majority of Americans who also don't agree with the job he's done are way different than me?

As far as elections go, we'll see who's holding the majority in Congress after these mid-term elections. Republicans are beginning to distance themselves from Bush because he's hurting their chances.

[jk the sooner fan]

I don't agree with the job Bush has done but the majority of Americans who also don't agree with the job he's done are way different than me?



yes they're called moderates

extreme liberals such as yourself arent familiar with the concept

[OklahomaTuba]

You are ****ing crazy. Also don't associate me with being against our troops. I hope (here's your apple pie comment JK, so you don't go McCarthy on me) they do their job, keep their heads down and get home safe.

Also Tuba for the 68th time Zarqawi wasn't in Iraq until long after we took over.

I think you people will find that I don't hate all of W's policies, I just think Iraq is a clusterfu*k of monumental proportions and that it rests squarely on his shoulders.

Damn, take a pill dude, just repeating what you leftist have been feeding us the last few years.

[JohnnyMack]

JM - my comments were directed at herr.....i guess my problem is that people (you included) will p.i.s.s all over anything positive simply because you hate bush so much

yeah the war is his responsibility, no doubt

I think what you're not getting is that I am 100% opposed to our military action against Iraq. I have thought from day 1 that it was BS. I am now and have always been a proponent of ramping up the war against al qaida and doing more to protect our own borders (did you know that last week at LAX 12 of 13 undercover TSA agents were able to smuggle banned weapons/explosives through security?).

I think Iraq is a waste of lives, money and resources. I don't support the policy. So now those of you who do can get out your flags wave them around and question my patriotism. Have Tuba hum some Lee Greenwood while you question my loyalty. Point your finger and call me a pinko, a sympathizer whatever it takes to make you feel better.

My interest here is two-fold. 1) Exacting revenge on those who attacked us with some fire and brimestone old testament vengeful God kinda sh*t and 2) making sure it never happens again. I don't think Iraq under the Hussein regime was a direct threat to our national security. Obviously some do.

[Herr Scholz]

yes they're called moderates

extreme liberals such as yourself arent familiar with the concept
Still haven't heard any criticism of Bush from you, Mr. Middle of the Road Objective. If you're so moderate, let's hear it. One thing.

I already said we were doing a good job in Iraq. I don't agree with the decision to go there or the way in which we went about it, but now that we're there, we're doing a good job. I credit Bush for that. Happy?

And of the 56% who think Bush is doing a bad job, how do you know they're moderate? Bush won the '04 election with a majority of 52%. I guarantee there are more people leaning left now than there were then thanks to President Bush's policies.

[OklahomaTuba]

39% of Americans think he's doing a good job. Spin that.
When letters like the one above or a third Iraqi election gets less media time than a hunting accident in texas, its pretty easy to understand.

[OklahomaTuba]

Interesting.

I notice none of our resident appeasers have said much about how nice the letter is, just bashing bush for creating the letter (wink wink, nudge nudge).

[Hatfield]

When letters like the one above or a third Iraqi election gets less media time than a hunting accident in texas, its pretty easy to understand.

i hadn't heard about the 12 out of 13 agents smuggling in banned weapons....stupid liberal media.

[jk the sooner fan]

Still haven't heard any criticism of Bush from you, Mr. Middle of the Road Objective. If you're so moderate, let's hear it. One thing.

I already said we were doing a good job in Iraq. I don't agree with the decision to go there or the way in which we went about it, but now that we're there, we're doing a good job. I credit Bush for that. Happy?

And of the 56% who think Bush is doing a bad job, how do you know they're moderate? Bush won the '04 election with a majority of 52%. I guarantee there are more people leaning left now than there were then thanks to President Bush's policies.

again, dont ask me to do something you wont do yourself

[NormanPride]

When letters like the one above or a third Iraqi election gets less media time than a hunting accident in texas, its pretty easy to understand.

Dude, comedy pwns boring sentimentalism. :cool:

[Herr Scholz]

Interesting.

I notice none of our resident appeasers have said much about how nice the letter is, just bashing bush for creating the letter (wink wink, nudge nudge).
Even you would have to admit, it's just a little too over the top to be really believable. Seriously read it. It's dripping with pro-America propaganda.

[KABOOKIE]

Even you would have to admit, it's just a little too over the top to be really believable. Seriously read it. It's dripping with pro-America propaganda.

Which is better than the **** you drivel each day.

[Herr Scholz]

again, dont ask me to do something you wont do yourself
I said we were doing a good job in the war and I credited Bush with that. What's extremely liberal about that? Yet you can't come up with a single criticism of Bush. Staunch Republicans all over Washington are able to find many things to criticize him about yet you can't.

You're not moderate. You're not middle of the road.

[OklahomaTuba]

Even you would have to admit, it's just a little too over the top to be really believable. Seriously read it. It's dripping with pro-America propaganda.Of course its pro-American propganda. How could something like this even be 1% real? Not when we are rounding innocent Iraqis up and abusing them left and right, not when we are killing hundreds of thousands of innocent freedom fighters for oil. Not when we are imposing this BS called democracy on people who obviously don't want it and will never ever vote in their lives!!


Damn the neoKKKons for their lies!!!! :rolleyes:

[Herr Scholz]

Damn the neoKKKons for their lies!!!! :rolleyes:
And I bet you believed Bush last year when he said he'd get rid of anyone involved with the Valerie Plame leak or when he said he had a warrant for every single wire tap. I bet you bought those lines hook line and sinker too.

Ever see the movie 'Wag the Dog'? Some of you are seriously gullible. Just tell 'em what they want to hear, Johnny...

[jk the sooner fan]

I said we were doing a good job in the war and I credited Bush with that. What's extremely liberal about that? Yet you can't come up with a single criticism of Bush. Staunch Republicans all over Washington are able to find many things to criticize him about yet you can't.

You're not moderate. You're not middle of the road.

i didnt see where you credited Bush with anything

there are alot of things i could (and have) criticize Bush for.....you'll have to be satisfied with that

i've had more conversation with you then i can stomach.....

[Herr Scholz]

i didnt see where you credited Bush with anything

The part where I said twice that Bush is responsible for us helping the Iraqis a lot and that we're doing a good job over there. That part.

Keep me in whatever preconceived box makes you feel better though.

[OklahomaTuba]

And I bet you believed Bush last year when he said he'd get rid of anyone involved with the Valerie Plame leak or when he said he had a warrant for every single wire tap. I bet you bought those lines hook line and sinker too.

Ever see the movie 'Wag the Dog'? Some of you are seriously gullible. Just tell 'em what they want to hear, Johnny...

And I bet you saw the quote, where he also said anyone involved AND FOUND GUILTY, didn't you?

Or where he came out and ADMITTED he was doing warrentless wiretapping the day after the report was published?

Or are you ignoring basic facts again?

Wouldn't be the first time I guess.

[NormanPride]

Tuba's liberal imitations remind me of that episode of Futurama where they watched the robot propaganda flick on the robot planet.

"Stop forcing Democracy before I devour you with my system of mighty organs!"

[OklahomaTuba]

I miss futurama.

[Hatfield]

i fail to see what any of this has to do with a figure four leglock.

http://www.puroresufan.com/images/moves/nishimuraff.jpg

(on a side note...how in the hell does gis not have a rick flair figure four picture?)

[Harry Beanbag]

It helps if you spell Ric's name correctly. ;)


http://www.wrestlingarsenal.net/public/058FlairHouston/torture1.jpg

[Scott D]

See, if I was a mod, I'd say:

"You know what was really sad? When this thread died."

And close it. That would be funny.

Seriously. You people suck. I was all ready to chant "USA! USA!" but then you got all serious and pessimistic about it.

EDIT: Rudy was sad when Notre Dame won. :(

Rudy was sad for being made...I cried that Hollywood was going all Brokeback about Notre Dame.

[Herr Scholz]

And I bet you saw the quote, where he also said anyone involved AND FOUND GUILTY, didn't you?
The 'guilty' part came after Karl Rove was found to be involved. He changed his story.


Or where he came out and ADMITTED he was doing warrentless wiretapping the day after the report was published?
Again, after his first story didn't hold water, he changed his tune. He lied in '04 and '05 while they were doing warrantless wire taps. He said they had warrants and they didn't.

You're the one ignoring these facts.

[OklahomaTuba]

The 'guilty' part came after Karl Rove was found to be involved. He changed his story.

Heh, you are so full of it. We have covered this a few time already, and what your saying it total BS, and you know it.



Again, after his first story didn't hold water, he changed his tune. He lied in '04 and '05 while they were doing warrantless wire taps. He said they had warrants and they didn't.

You're the one ignoring these facts.
Hmm, so your saying he outted a secret government spying program in 04 and 05????? :rolleyes:

[jk the sooner fan]

No, I think our troops are doing a phenomenal job over there. They're very brave and they've enable the Iraqis to make great strides in terms of self governing.

On the other hand, I'm skeptical of most of the words that come out of Bush's mouth. I don't think the two positions are mutually exclusive.

here's what you said......nowhere in your quote do you give Bush or the administration credit for anything

you mention the troops, and nothing else

[Herr Scholz]

Heh, you are so full of it. We have covered this a few time already, and what your saying it total BS, and you know it.
Wrong about what Bush said and besides Rove is guilty. Rove has a long history of leaking information to that ****** Novak. Way to out a CIA agent for political purposes and then when it hits the fan, go back on your word to dismiss the leaker.


Hmm, so your saying he outted a secret government spying program in 04 and 05????? :rolleyes:
Tim Russert showed the speeches on his program Sunday. Sorry if you won't accept the truth or follow the news not on Fox.

[jk the sooner fan]

Keep me in whatever preconceived box makes you feel better though.


the shoe fits

you dont deal in facts.......Karl Rove hasnt been indicted of anything, period, end of story

you pretend to think you know how involved he is and how crooked he is...in reality you know squat

[Herr Scholz]

here's what you said......nowhere in your quote do you give Bush or the administration credit for anything

you mention the troops, and nothing else
Might want to read the whole thread. In subsequent quotes I stated:


I already said we were doing a good job in Iraq. I don't agree with the decision to go there or the way in which we went about it, but now that we're there, we're doing a good job. I credit Bush for that. Happy?

as well as


I said we were doing a good job in the war and I credited Bush with that. What's extremely liberal about that? Yet you can't come up with a single criticism of Bush. Staunch Republicans all over Washington are able to find many things to criticize him about yet you can't.


Like I said, I credited Bush twice with helping the Iraqis. Still waiting on a single criticism from you Mr. Middle of the Road, Mainstream, Objective, Fair and Balanced. You were the one painting me as an extremist yet I'm the one closer to the middle here.

[Herr Scholz]

the shoe fits

you dont deal in facts.......Karl Rove hasnt been indicted of anything, period, end of story

you pretend to think you know how involved he is and how crooked he is...in reality you know squat
He was involved with Texas politics and was just as crooked then as now. I know plenty of his past leaks to Novak too. They out their political enemies in the press (with the help of scumbags like Novak). That's their M.O.

[KABOOKIE]

He was involved with Texas politics and was just as crooked then as now. I know plenty of his past leaks to Novak too. They out their political enemies in the press (with the help of scumbags like Novak). That's their M.O.

OK. Ya Convinced me thar partner.:rolleyes:

[JohnnyMack]

OK. Ya Convinced me thar partner.:rolleyes:

Didn't Rove get fired from Bush Sr.'s 1992 campaign for planting stories with the help of Novak?

[Hatfield]

yes....and i ain't talking about the band.

nttawwt

[Herr Scholz]

Didn't Rove get fired from Bush Sr.'s 1992 campaign for planting stories with the help of Novak?
Yes, like I said, those two have a sordid history of doing this.

January 2003: Ron Suskind reports in Esquire that Karl Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush Sr. Presidential campaign for leaking to Robert Novak a damaging story about Rove's direct-mail business competitor Robert Mosbacher, Jr.

[OklahomaTuba]

Ahh, so that explains why he has been indicted. I was wondering why that happened.

[Hatfield]

I HEART THIS THREAD.

[Herr Scholz]

Ahh, so that explains why he has been indicted. I was wondering why that happened.
Wait 'til Scooter Libby, who has been indicted, rolls over on Rove's *ss.

Rove AND Novak should go to prison for this. It's a felony to knowingly out a CIA operative. I would think you would agree with that, Tuba.

[Ike]

If that letter is authentic, then great! It's nice to think that there are some leaders over there with the stones to acknowledge and thank our troops for doing the difficult job they are doing.


however, forgive me if I hold off on trusting the authenticity of that letter until I've seen a little more proof than just its posting on an internet message board.

[KABOOKIE]

It's a felony to knowingly out a CIA operative.


You're close. But, still wrong.

[Herr Scholz]

You're close. But, still wrong.
Care to try again?


26 September 2003: At CIA Director George J. Tenet's request, the Justice Department begins looking into an allegation that administration officials leaked the identity of an undercover CIA officer to a journalist, an aggravated felony punishable by up to three years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

[jk the sooner fan]

If that letter is authentic, then great! It's nice to think that there are some leaders over there with the stones to acknowledge and thank our troops for doing the difficult job they are doing.


however, forgive me if I hold off on trusting the authenticity of that letter until I've seen a little more proof than just its posting on an internet message board.

and i'd have no problem having it authenticated

its a nice sentiment regardless, and i believe that there are iraqi's who appreciate what we're doing over there.......i believe it because i've had friends over there tell me

call me the eternal optimist but i hate seeing nice sentiments, where our soldiers are concerned, p.i.ssed all over

[Herr Scholz]

OK. Ya Convinced me thar partner.:rolleyes:
Convinced of the facts yet? Didn't hear a response pointing out that Bush lied about wire taps either.


January 2003: Ron Suskind reports in Esquire that Karl Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush Sr. Presidential campaign for leaking to Robert Novak a damaging story about Rove's direct-mail business competitor Robert Mosbacher, Jr.

[JohnnyMack]

and i'd have no problem having it authenticated

its a nice sentiment regardless, and i believe that there are iraqi's who appreciate what we're doing over there.......i believe it because i've had friends over there tell me

call me the eternal optimist but i hate seeing nice sentiments, where our soldiers are concerned, p.i.ssed all over

But given that we know that Pentagon has admitted that they inserted propaganda into the Iraqi media can you understand why some might be skeptical? I'm not asking for a value judgment, just that you see where some people are coming from.

[KABOOKIE]

Was she undercover? Didn't think so.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

She wasn't an "UNDERCOVER" CIA agent. I mean I don't consider my self a ultra conservative. But for ****'s sake please stop throwing out the "well they outed a CIA agent. They did nothing of the sort, they outed(the word for lack of a better word) a women that was retired and that everyone knew was a retired CIA agent. You guys are acting like she was in Tieneman Square trying to get Chinese secrets!!! SHE WASN'T, deal with it, you tried to get Bush and Rove and failed. It wasn't the first time and it won't be the last time you try to get them. Just give that crap a rest

[jk the sooner fan]

But given that we know that Pentagon has admitted that they inserted propaganda into the Iraqi media can you understand why some might be skeptical? I'm not asking for a value judgment, just that you see where some people are coming from.

i've got absolutely no problem with propaganda - its called psychological warfare

we used it in both world wars, korea, and vietnam

why would now be any different?

look the letter could have been written by some 6th grader at the local elementary for all i know

i think the sentiment of the post was immediately overlooked simply because of hatred for Bush

there's an old saying - Hate destroys the vessel that carries it....

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

As for the wiretaps, WHO THE HELL CARES!!! Bush is doing what every President before him has done, the media just cares now because they hate Bush....I feel all dirty now for having to defend Bush...thanks guys

[Herr Scholz]

Was she undercover? Didn't think so.

16 July 2003: "A White House Smear" is published at the website of Nation magazine. Author David Corn opines that Novak's informants revealed the role of Wilson's wife in order to sully Wilson's name for the sake of revenge, "That would seem to mean that the Bush administration has screwed one of its own top-secret operatives in order to punish Wilson or to send a message to others who might challenge it."
Ahem. And she wasn't retired. She was an agency operative working in WMDs.

[Ike]

and i'd have no problem having it authenticated

its a nice sentiment regardless, and i believe that there are iraqi's who appreciate what we're doing over there.......i believe it because i've had friends over there tell me

call me the eternal optimist but i hate seeing nice sentiments, where our soldiers are concerned, p.i.ssed all over

I have no doubt that there are Iraqis that appreciate what we are doing. what I do have doubts about are whether there are very many that will publicy proclaim for all to hear their appreciation. its hair splitting sure, but as far as our credibility internationally goes, its a pretty important hair.

If my doubts are wrong, I couldn't be happier to have them be wrong. but if they are correct, well, then we still have a long way to go...

[Herr Scholz]

i think the sentiment of the post was immediately overlooked simply because of hatred for Bush
I think its authenticity was immediately assumed to be true by you.

[OklahomaTuba]

Joe Wilson, what a great guy.

He really worked out well working for the Kerry Campaign.

[jk the sooner fan]

I think its authenticity was immediately assumed to be true by you.

well you know what they say about assuming

[pb4ou]

heh

[Herr Scholz]

Was she undercover? Didn't think so.

In his July 14, 2003 newspaper column, Robert Novak revealed the name of an allegedly covert CIA agent. Novak identified Valerie Plame, wife of Joseph C. Wilson IV, as an agency operative.[2] Wilson, a former U.S. Ambassador, criticized the Bush Administration in a July 6, 2003 editorial in The New York Times.


CIA leak grand jury investigation (rel. Valerie Plame affair) is an ongoing federal inquiry "into the alleged unauthorized disclosure of a CIA employee's identity,", a possible violation of criminal statutes, including the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, and Title 18, United States Code, Section 793. In September 2003, the CIA requested that the Justice Department investigate the possible unauthorized disclosure of a CIA officer’s classified identity.

.

[SCOUT]

But given that we know that Pentagon has admitted that they inserted propaganda into the Iraqi media can you understand why some might be skeptical? I'm not asking for a value judgment, just that you see where some people are coming from.

I absolutely understand why people would be skeptical. I would point out that the propaganda that was inserted into the Iraqi media was factually correct though.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

She drove to Langley every day to go to the CIA headquarters.....not very covert if you ask me :P

[Hatfield]

a simple point to be made to those saying "she wasn't undercover it is obvious there is nothing there"

if that was the case do you really think we would have gone through all the trouble of the investigation and what not.

it is ok to admit that it is more complicated that what both sides would lead you to believe.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Do I think the government would waste money on something senseless as a baseless investigation...you betcha!

[Herr Scholz]

She drove to Langley every day to go to the CIA headquarters.....not very covert if you ask me :P
That's why she was in Niger investigating yellow cake uranium? She was a CIA operative working in the field of WMDs. Pretty important to our national security if you ask me. Let's tell everyone who she is to get back at her husband!

Regardless of her covert status, it's illegal to out a CIA operative's identity. And I would also add that if someone in Clinton's administration had outed a CIA operative, many on here would be calling for a firing squad for treason right now.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Do I think the government would waste money on something senseless as a baseless investigation...you betcha!

It's obvious the intelligence community needs to think like this seeing as they didn't invest enough money into a meaningful investigation in Iraq

[Herr Scholz]

Do I think the government would waste money on something senseless as a baseless investigation...you betcha!
You mean like Ken Starr?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Papa Joe Wilson over there investigating yellow cake uranium....and that caused the supposed outing of an agent because Joe was over there disproving all of the Africa evidence? Could the media be twisting the story to make it sound worse...in this case yes ;)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well that was the Republicans trying to get Clinton ;) Just like you guys trying to get Bush...it wasn't and isn't going to happen.

[jk the sooner fan]

valerie plames husband was the one investigating the yellow cake uranium

nice command of the facts Herr

[SicEmBaylor]

Geezus,
It's really amazing and saddening to me that so many of those who oppose the war just can't bring themselves to congratulate our troops on the phenomenal job they are doing without inserting a snide comment about their mission there (thus negating any sincerity on their part) or their Commander-in-Chief.

It's well past the point of good taste and grown disgusting.

[Herr Scholz]

valerie plames husband was the one investigating the yellow cake uranium

nice command of the facts Herr
I thought she was there with him. I stand corrected. Still, she was involved in the investigation. She was still working as an operative. Maybe not covert but an active CIA agent.


12 February 2002: Valerie Plame Wilson, a C.I.A. analyst working in its Counterproliferation Division, sends a memo to the deputy chief of the C.I.A.'s Directorate of Operations stating that her husband has good contact with the former Prime Minister and Director of Mines in Niger as well as other contacts who might prove useful in shedding light on the supposed Niger-Iraq uranium contract.
13 February 2002: An operations official cables an oversees officer seeking approval of Joe Wilson investigation.
26 February 2002: Joseph C. Wilson travels to Niger at the request of the CIA.

[KABOOKIE]

I thought she was there with him. I stand corrected. Still, she was involved in the investigation. She was still working as an operative. Maybe not covert but an active CIA agent.

Was she undercover? Didn't think so.

[Herr Scholz]

Geezus,
It's really amazing and saddening to me that so many of those who oppose the war just can't bring themselves to congratulate our troops on the phenomenal job they are doing without inserting a snide comment about their mission there (thus negating any sincerity on their part) or their Commander-in-Chief.

It's well past the point of good taste and grown disgusting.
None of you who are for this war have ever accepted the simple fact that someone can be against the war, as well as critical of the administration, and for the soldiers. I've congratulated the soldiers on a good job several times in this thread.

What's sickening and saddening is people who say you're either for the war or against America.


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." [Theodore Roosevelt ]

[Herr Scholz]

Was she undercover? Didn't think so.
It's still illegal to out a CIA operative. Treasonable if you ask me.

[Hatfield]

anyone with baylor in their name probably has a good grasp on the emotion of "sickening"

dat's fo sho

[Hatfield]

you guys don't suppose that we as the common public don't know all the facts so when we say things like it was treason or "was she undercover? don't think so" you are really only showing your arse??

[OklahomaTuba]

None of you who are for this war have ever accepted the simple fact that someone can be against the war, as well as critical of the administration, and for the soldiers. I've congratulated the soldiers on a good job several times in this thread.

What's sickening and saddening is people who say you're either for the war or against America.

Didn't the city of San Franciso just ban all things related to the US military?

Oh, but they support the troops no doubt!

[OklahomaTuba]

Gotta love the undercover CIA types...
http://www.rogerlsimon.com/mt-archives/valerie.jpg

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well Tuba is here with pictures....the debate is over...see you in the next thread everyone ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

None of you who are for this war have ever accepted the simple fact that someone can be against the war, as well as critical of the administration, and for the soldiers. I've congratulated the soldiers on a good job several times in this thread.

What's sickening and saddening is people who say you're either for the war or against America.

I'm not saying you hate America, I'm saying it's an absurd position to congratulate the troops on the job they are doing when you don't agree with the job they are doing.

If I'm against people who like to carjack then how sincere am I when I say how proud I am of their efforts?

Taking all of this a step further...

If you are against the war and congratulating the troops on the job they are doing does that mean you are congratulating their means rather than the end? In other words saying, "you're doing a great job doing what I don't think you should be doing in the first place." Assuming that the troops are so successful at their means that their ends are successful too would you then congratulate them for creating a peaceful and stable democratic Iraq?

[jk the sooner fan]

i would say that the troops tend to agree with sicem's position......rather than Herr's

[Ike]

I'm not saying you hate America, I'm saying it's an absurd position to congratulate the troops on the job they are doing when you don't agree with the job they are doing.

If I'm against people who like to carjack then how sincere am I when I say how proud I am of their efforts?

Taking all of this a step further...

If you are against the war and congratulating the troops on the job they are doing does that mean you are congratulating their means rather than the end? In other words saying, "you're doing a great job doing what I don't think you should be doing in the first place." Assuming that the troops are so successful at their means that their ends are successful too would you then congratulate them for creating a peaceful and stable democratic Iraq?


not so fast...it's not as an absurd position as you think...

for instance, I abhor the job that Curt Schilling is/has been doing for the Boston Red Sox. The dude is just winning way too many games for those rat bastards. But when he essentially put that team on his back and led them to a WS victory, I couldn't help but cheer for the guy. Hell, if I ever have the chance to meet him in person, I'll buy him a beer or twenty just for giving me the oppurtunity to watch that spectacular display on TV. Even though I hate that he was doing it for those accursed red sox.

[NormanPride]

not so fast...it's not as an absurd position as you think...

for instance, I abhor the job that Curt Schilling is/has been doing for the Boston Red Sox. The dude is just winning way too many games for those rat bastards. But when he essentially put that team on his back and led them to a WS victory, I couldn't help but cheer for the guy. Hell, if I ever have the chance to meet him in person, I'll buy him a beer or twenty just for giving me the oppurtunity to watch that spectacular display on TV. Even though I hate that he was doing it for those accursed red sox.

Schilling is an ***. Buy him the beer and then toss it in his face.


Make sure it's a cheap beer that nobody will miss, though... :mack:

[JohnnyMack]

If you are against the war and congratulating the troops on the job they are doing does that mean you are congratulating their means rather than the end? In other words saying, "you're doing a great job doing what I don't think you should be doing in the first place." Assuming that the troops are so successful at their means that their ends are successful too would you then congratulate them for creating a peaceful and stable democratic Iraq?

I don't know if I would say would like to congratulate the troops as much as I would like to say, stay safe, don't die, don't get shot, don't get blown up. While I disagree with CinC's policy on Iraq, it doesn't mean I want U.S. soldiers to suffer so I can point fingers at W.

[Vaevictis]

Bush is doing what every President before him has done, the media just cares now because they hate Bush....I feel all dirty now for having to defend Bush...thanks guys

There was a time when Presidents who got caught doing this kind of thing had to resign. And the media cared then, too. The difference between then and now is not that the media hates Bush, it's that back then people actually cared if the President secretly broke the law and violated the civil rights of an as-yet unknown (because there's no oversight) number of American citizens for as-yet unknown (again, because there's no oversight) purposes.

These days, so many people are afraid that someone's going to drop an airplane on their heads that they'll cede anything to the executive in the name of safety.

(Personally, I subscribe to the Ben Franklin philosophy -- "They that give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither." {paraphrased, I think.})

[Vaevictis]

SicEm, is there a way we can confirm the legitimacy of this letter?

If it's legitimate, I will -- with great enthusiam -- (figuratively) give a standing ovation to the men and commanders of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment for doing exactly what needs to be done to win this war.

(With specificity: win hearts and minds to cut off the terrorist recruiting base)

[Herr Scholz]

If you are against the war and congratulating the troops on the job they are doing does that mean you are congratulating their means rather than the end? In other words saying, "you're doing a great job doing what I don't think you should be doing in the first place." Assuming that the troops are so successful at their means that their ends are successful too would you then congratulate them for creating a peaceful and stable democratic Iraq?
The soldiers are helping Iraq rebuild their war torn nation. They're helping them establish democracy. They're protecting the Iraqi people from terrorists. Do I wholeheartedly support their efforts at this point? Yes. Are they very brave? Yes. Do I want them all to come home safe and sound? Yes.

Now, do I think it was a horrible decision to go in there? Yes. Do I think it was worth $300 Billion dollars and thousands of US lives to take care of an Iraqi problem? No. Do I think Bush misled both the Congress and the American people? Yes. Do I think Bush is dishonest quite a bit? Yes.

[OklahomaTuba]

There was a time when Presidents who got caught doing this kind of thing had to resign. And the media cared then, too.
Like when Carter did it. or when Clinton did it?

I don't believe either one of those presidents had to resign, did they?

[OklahomaTuba]

The soldiers are helping Iraq rebuild their war torn nation. They're helping them establish democracy. They're protecting the Iraqi people from terrorists. Do I wholeheartedly support their efforts at this point? Yes. Are they very brave? Yes. Do I want them all to come home safe and sound? Yes.

Now, do I think it was a horrible decision to go in there? Yes. Do I think it was worth $300 Billion dollars and thousands of US lives to take care of an Iraqi problem? No. Do I think Bush misled both the Congress and the American people? Yes. Do I think Bush is dishonest quite a bit? Yes.
So, you want us to win?

[Fugue]

If it's legitimate, I will -- with great enthusiam -- (figuratively) give a standing ovation to the men and commanders of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment for doing exactly what needs to be done to win this war.



I'll applaud them for what they are doing even if the letter is prop.

[Herr Scholz]

i would say that the troops tend to agree with sicem's position......rather than Herr's
Most soldiers are for the war. There's no questioning that. 80% or so of them voted for Bush in '04. I wonder though what they'll think when they come home and Bush slashes their benefits (which he's planning to do after these midterm elections) just like I predicted he would. Those who actually make it home that is.

[OklahomaTuba]

I'll applaud them for what they are doing even if the letter is prop.

Now thats just crossing a line that doesn't need to be crossed right there buddy. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

Most soldiers are for the war. There's no questioning that. 80% or so of them voted for Bush in '04. I wonder though what they'll think when they come home and Bush slashes their benefits (which he's planning to do after these midterm elections) just like I predicted he would. Those who actually make it home that is.

no i mean that most soldiers would see your "support" as nothing more than a token comment

to them, its all or nothing.....thats how they roll

[OklahomaTuba]

Herr, you never answered me, do you want us to win the war?

[Herr Scholz]

So, you want us to win?
Sure if you can tell me what that is. Is your definition of winning staying there indefinitely? 50 more years?

I don't want Iraq to fall apart just to say 'Nah Nah, you were wrong, Bush!' if that's what you're asking. I want Iraq's democracy to succeed and for us to be able to get out of there. And I don't want any more soldiers to die.

[Vaevictis]

Like when Carter did it. or when Clinton did it?

I don't believe either one of those presidents had to resign, did they?

I know it's been a long time, but think harder ;) (Nixon, anybody?)

[OklahomaTuba]

Sure if you can tell me what that is. Is your definition of winning staying there indefinitely? 50 more years?

I don't want Iraq to fall apart just to say 'Nah Nah, you were wrong, Bush!' if that's what you're asking. I want Iraq's democracy to succeed and for us to be able to get out of there. And I don't want any more soldiers to die.

Thats all I was asking. I don't know anyone that doesn't want that.

That is why it is ****ING STUPID to hear people like you say "I support the troops, just not the job they are doing".

Pretty GODDAMN ****ING STUPID!

[Fugue]

I know it's been a long time, but think harder ;) (Nixon, anybody?)

that was for political gain not public safety.

[OklahomaTuba]

I know it's been a long time, but think harder ;) (Nixon, anybody?)
Nixon resigned cause of wiretapping people talking to our enemies??

I think your history is a little "off".

[Herr Scholz]

That is why it is ****ING STUPID to hear people like you say "I support the troops, just not the job they are doing".

Show me where I said that. In fact, right above I said this:


The soldiers are helping Iraq rebuild their war torn nation. They're helping them establish democracy. They're protecting the Iraqi people from terrorists. Do I wholeheartedly support their efforts at this point? Yes. Are they very brave? Yes. Do I want them all to come home safe and sound? Yes.


I said I didn't support going in there in the first place. Big difference. I hope they bust *ss and get home soon. You're putting words in my mouth.

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEm, is there a way we can confirm the legitimacy of this letter?

If it's legitimate, I will -- with great enthusiam -- (figuratively) give a standing ovation to the men and commanders of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment for doing exactly what needs to be done to win this war.

(With specificity: win hearts and minds to cut off the terrorist recruiting base)

Well we ought to applaud the 3rd ACR's efforts even if the mayor of Tall 'Afar, Iraq didn't send them a congratulatory letter. However, that being said the letter comes from this link http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/004167.html on National Review's blog.

If you're really worried about legitimacy then I will attempt to e-mail the 3rd ACR or their base in Colorado and ask them to confirm. But I have no reason to doubt it's authenticity.

[Vaevictis]

I'll applaud them for what they are doing even if the letter is prop.

Well, to me, it depends on what they're doing. The soldiers involved in the Abu Grahib mess need to be tarred and feathered, imo. (and fwiw, I don't just mean the enlisted and nco's -- there's got to be a major, lt. colonel, or I dunno, president somewhere that knew what was going on and didn't do anything about it.)

Going somewhere and getting shot at isn't enough... I can do that by stupidly turning into the wrong neighborhood in OKC. *shrug* Acting with honor in the face of adversity... that there, that'll get my applause.

[jk the sooner fan]

I dont approve of what you are doing, but i approve of how well you're doing it

yes, that just smacks of "supportive"

[jk the sooner fan]

Well, to me, it depends on what they're doing. The soldiers involved in the Abu Grahib mess need to be tarred and feathered, imo. (and fwiw, I don't just mean the enlisted and nco's -- there's got to be a major, lt. colonel, or I dunno, president somewhere that knew what was going on and didn't do anything about it.)

Going somewhere and getting shot at isn't enough... I can do that by stupidly turning into the wrong neighborhood in OKC. *shrug* Acting with honor in the face of adversity... that there, that'll get my applause.

the soldiers directly responsible were courts-martialed......thats how we take care of law breakers in our society....tar and feathering went out years ago

the senior officer who allowed this to happen has no military career to speak of

[SicEmBaylor]

Okay, I sent an e-mail to the 3rd ACR and asked them to confirm. I'll post their response here one way or another.

[Vaevictis]

Nixon resigned cause of wiretapping people talking to our enemies??

I think your history is a little "off".

I always thought he resigned because he broke the law and violated people's civil rights, and people were outraged over it. I dunno, maybe my history *is* a little... "off."

[Herr Scholz]

I dont approve of what you are doing, but i approve of how well you're doing it

yes, that just smacks of "supportive"
Whatever. Never said that. I don't approve of our President's decisions and actions. Understand?

[Fugue]

Well, to me, it depends on what they're doing. The soldiers involved in the Abu Grahib mess need to be tarred and feathered, imo. (and fwiw, I don't just mean the enlisted and nco's -- there's got to be a major, lt. colonel, or I dunno, president somewhere that knew what was going on and didn't do anything about it.)

Going somewhere and getting shot at isn't enough... I can do that by stupidly turning into the wrong neighborhood in OKC. *shrug* Acting with honor in the face of adversity... that there, that'll get my applause.

WOW

[jk the sooner fan]

Whatever. Never said that. I don't approve of our President's decisions and actions. Understand?

sure i understand.....i understand that what the military does is a direct extension of the Presidents decisions and actions (orders)

understand?

[Vaevictis]

the soldiers directly responsible were courts-martialed......thats how we take care of law breakers in our society....tar and feathering went out years ago

I meant figuratively. ;)


the senior officer who allowed this to happen has no military career to speak of

Insufficient. The senior officer who allowed this to happen needs to be (figuratively) drawn and quartered in the public square. Anything less reeks of whitewash and provides recruitment propoganda to our enemies.

[Herr Scholz]

sure i understand.....i understand that what the military does is a direct extension of the Presidents decisions and actions (orders)

understand?
So because I disagree with the President's decision to go to war, I hate the army? Is that how your mind works? Because I think Bush is dishonest, I want us to fail in Iraq? Is that it?

That thinking is infantile.

[jk the sooner fan]

I meant figuratively. ;)



Insufficient. The senior officer who allowed this to happen needs to be (figuratively) drawn and quartered in the public square. Anything less reeks of whitewash and provides recruitment propoganda to our enemies.

recruitment propaganda? please.......if the iraqi's couldnt recruit from the way they were treated by the old regime....then this little blip is nothing

i'd venture a guess that the prisoners, with a choice, would choose our treatment any day over the old way....and that includes the abu graib scandal

[jk the sooner fan]

So because I disagree with the President's decision to go to war, I hate the army? Is that how your mind works? Because I think Bush is dishonest, I want us to fail in Iraq? Is that it?

That thinking is infantile.

you love to insert words where there are none

i never used the word hate or fail....ever.

let me say it in slow english for you

THE SOLDIER WOULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU......THEY WOULD THINK YOUR "SUPPORT" IS NOTHING MORE THAN DOUBLE TALK...NOTHING MORE THAN BULL****

CAPICHE?

[Hatfield]

a few short hours ago this was a great thread full of sad movies and old wrasslers....now look what you sad sacks have done.

[OklahomaTuba]

Show me where I said that. In fact, right above I said this:

And a few months ago, you said this...


I don't remember your lying President saying that in front of Congress as the reason to kill 12,000 innocent people and spend $200 Billion dollars of my tax dollars.

and

And yes, you can attribute 12,000 Iraqi deaths to the good old USA.



http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43202&page=5&highlight=troops
but don't question your support of the troops!

:rolleyes:

So our troops murder innocent people, huh?

[Hatfield]

yes tuba they do.

you aren't suggesting that no innocents have been killed are you? because you know that is what you just said.

[Vaevictis]

recruitment propaganda? please.......if the iraqi's couldnt recruit from the way they were treated by the old regime....then this little blip is nothing

The Iraqis did recruit under the old regime. Maybe you didn't hear about the Kurds being gassed as punishment for their insurrection? How about the Shiite uprising post-Gulf War getting smacked down after we left?


i'd venture a guess that the prisoners, with a choice, would choose our treatment any day over the old way....and that includes the abu graib scandal

Maybe, but still insufficient. Someone, somewhere, some day, will kill a bunch of our soldiers and/or civvies because their distant relative got mistreated by our soldiers. Revenge is glorified beyond Western comprehension in Arab cultures. Mark it down. It will happen... if it hasn't already happened many times already.

[Herr Scholz]

you love to insert words where there are none

i never used the word hate or fail....ever.

let me say it in slow english for you

THE SOLDIER WOULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU......THEY WOULD THINK YOUR "SUPPORT" IS NOTHING MORE THAN DOUBLE TALK...NOTHING MORE THAN BULL****

CAPICHE?
Colin Powell was against the Iraqi war. He resigned his position as Secretary of State because of it. Does he not support our troops? Does the 3rd infantry think he's full of BS?

Being against the war initially and being supportive of our troops efforts over there right now are two totally different things. They're not mutually exclusive no matter how much you want them to be.

[OklahomaTuba]

So because I disagree with the President's decision to go to war, I hate the army? Is that how your mind works? Because I think Bush is dishonest, I want us to fail in Iraq? Is that it?

That thinking is infantile.

So is accusing the troops of murder. One hell of a good way to support them, isn't it?

[jk the sooner fan]

Colin Powell was against the Iraqi war. He resigned his position as Secretary of State because of it. Does he not support our troops? Does the 3rd infantry think he's full of BS?

Being against the war initially and being supportive of our troops efforts over there right now are two totally different things. They're not mutually exclusive no matter how much you want them to be.

was he against the war before or after his speech to the United Nations?

you are listening, you've got serious reading comprehension problems

i said THE SOLDIER.......you know, the grunts, the privates and sergeants, the ones sweating their asses off over there, getting shot at and blown up

they'd call BS on you

and they woudlnt give a crap what Colin Powell thinks

[OklahomaTuba]

yes tuba they do.

you aren't suggesting that no innocents have been killed are you? because you know that is what you just said.

So you think our men and women in uniform are killing innocent people on purpose?

Cause if so, thats pretty ****ing stupid.

[Herr Scholz]

So our troops murder innocent people, huh?
Bush is to blame for all the death in this war. And yes, thousands of innocent people have died. Bush isn't culpable for that?

[SCOUT]

Bush is to blame for all the death in this war. And yes, thousands of innocent people have died. Bush isn't culpable for that?

If this is true, is he not also responsible for the hundreds of thousands that will not die under the boot of Saddam and his regime?

[OklahomaTuba]

Bush is to blame for all the death in this war. And yes, thousands of innocent people have died. Bush isn't culpable for that?
Yes, those terrorist who blow up schools and people waiting in line for jobs are all Bush's fault.

You all are so eaten up with hate of Bush that you will say the dumbest *** things.

[Herr Scholz]

So is accusing the troops of murder. One hell of a good way to support them, isn't it?
You're putting more words in my mouth. That's your M.O.

[jk the sooner fan]

Bush is to blame for all the death in this war. And yes, thousands of innocent people have died. Bush isn't culpable for that?

no chaney is, he pulled the trigger

[Hatfield]

what is stupid is you acting like you are all knowing on every facet of every soldier's life over there.

do they do it on purpose? hope not.
do they do it? probably
are some instances justified? more than likely.
am i willing to judge them without knowing all the facts? not really.

but i will be damned if i sit here and say it doesn't happen at all.

[OklahomaTuba]

You're putting more words in my mouth. That's your M.O.

OK, so your not saying our troops murdered innocent people. That they just killed them.

gotcha. :rolleyes:

[Herr Scholz]

If this is true, is he not also responsible for the hundreds of thousands that will not die under the boot of Saddam and his regime?
Sure but like I said before, that was an Iraqi problem not an American one. This isn't worth hundreds of billions of American dollars and thousands of American lives.

[jk the sooner fan]

what is stupid is you acting like you are all knowing on every facet of every soldier's life over there.

do they do it on purpose? hope not.
do they do it? probably
are some instances justified? more than likely.
am i willing to judge them without knowing all the facts? not really.

but i will be damned if i sit here and say it doesn't happen at all.

it does happen....not often, but it does

they've been courts-martialed for it

we had problems with it in Somalia too

[Herr Scholz]

Yes, those terrorist who blow up schools and people waiting in line for jobs are all Bush's fault.

You mean the terrorists that flocked to Iraq after we went there? Those? The people waiting in line for jobs wouldn't have been blown up had we not gone there.

[OklahomaTuba]

what is stupid is you acting like you are all knowing on every facet of every soldier's life over there.

do they do it on purpose? hope not.
do they do it? probably
am i willing to judge them without knowing all the facts? not really.

but i will be damned if i sit here and say it doesn't happen at all.

No, you will glady say it. You probably take joy in the fact that Bush is out there with this "tools" as the LA Times calle them murdering innocent people.

Of course, you never EVER give them credit for giving MILLIONS a chance at being free.

No, thats all just more NeoKKKon propaganda.

[Herr Scholz]

OK, so your not saying our troops murdered innocent people. That they just killed them.

gotcha. :rolleyes:
No, I'm saying innocent people die in war. Thousands of innocent people have died in this war because of Bush. If it weren't for Bush, they wouldn't have died. That's what I'm saying.

[OklahomaTuba]

You mean the terrorists that flocked to Iraq after we went there? Those? The people waiting in line for jobs wouldn't have been blown up had we not gone there.

Ahh, so I guess we are fighting terrorism. And all this time I thought you said Iraq wasn't a part of the war on terror.

And many of those people who got blown up would probably just have been executed and thrown into one of the many mass graves we found in Iraq.

Damn, I miss the days when libz cared about human rights and stuff.

[SCOUT]

Sure but like I said before, that was an Iraqi problem not an American one. This isn't worth hundreds of billions of American dollars and thousands of American lives.


Herr, you should be careful with comments like this. You are placing value on human life based on their address. Were the Jews worth the lives of US Soldiers in WWII? What about the French, Belgian, English etc.??

Which countries are on the "worth it" list?

[jk the sooner fan]

Herr, you should be careful with comments like this. You are placing value on human life based on their address. Were the Jews worth the lives of US Soldiers in WWII? What about the French, Belgian, English etc.??

Which countries are on the "worth it" list?

spek.

[Vaevictis]

Herr, you should be careful with comments like this. You are placing value on human life based on their address. Were the Jews worth the lives of US Soldiers in WWII? What about the French, Belgian, English etc.??

Which countries are on the "worth it" list?

I agree with the point you're trying to make... but historically speaking, to the American public at the time.... no, NONE of them were worth the lives of US Soldiers in WWII. If you'll recall, we sat on the sidelines in Europe until Germany declared war on us. (iirc, the timeline went ... Japan attacks USA, USA declares war on Japan, Germany honors its pact with Japan declaring war on USA, USA "retroactively" declares war on Germany so as not to be outdone)

While I think it's the duty of the people with power to make things right, this is not a long held American value... up until the USSR was a threat, the standard American attitude was to serve as a good example, ala Reagan's "shining city on a hill."

[jk the sooner fan]

I agree with the point you're trying to make... but historically speaking, to the American public at the time.... no, NONE of them were worth the lives of US Soldiers in WWII. If you'll recall, we sat on the sidelines in Europe until Germany declared war on us. (iirc, the timeline went ... Japan attacks USA, USA declares war on Japan, Germany honors its pact with Japan declaring war on USA, USA "retroactively" declares war on Germany so as not to be outdone)

While I think it's the duty of the people with power to make things right, this is not a long held American value... up until the USSR was a threat, the standard American attitude was to serve as a good example, ala Reagan's "shining city on a hill."

time is always a good teacher.....

[Desert Sapper]

I've been back and forth to the CENTCOM AO for the last three years, and I've seen more great things we did that didn't get reported than you can possibly imagine. Contrary to some opinions (which everybody is entitled too), reporters don't like to report feel good stories. They like to create sensationalism, either because they are skeptical or because they all have some desire to some day own a Pulitzer prize. The fact is that I've seen more rebuilding (of schools, of infrastructure, of homes) than actual knock down the door warfighting. Sure, we kick the hell out of the bad guys when we do fight them, but our bigger mission is to get Iraq back on its feet, which is more than just the insurgency. Whether Tall 'Afar or a thousand other towns and villages throughout the Iraq theater, our Soldiers are doing magnificent things on a daily basis that go largely unreported by our popular media.

And for those of you that point to all the terrorists that are now flocking to Iraq, I for one am glad we are able to fight them in places like Iraq, Syria, Djibouti, Oman, Yemen, Ethiopia, the Sudan, Afghanistan, and Somalia rather than being forced to fight them in San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Oklahoma City, and Tulsa. It sucks that we are losing people, and I am pretty sure I have lost more friends in Iraq and Afghanistan (as well as the other places I mentioned) than anybody else on the board, but I don't want those losses to be in vain, simply because somebody might not have the stomach for this fight. We can't afford to have a dozen psychos strapped with explosives in downtown Chicago this Summer. I'd rather drop them where they stand in Tikrit or Karbala.

[jk the sooner fan]

I've been back and forth to the CENTCOM AO for the last three years, and I've seen more great things we did that didn't get reported than you can possibly imagine. Contrary to some opinions (which everybody is entitled too), reporters don't like to report feel good stories. They like to create sensationalism, either because they are skeptical or because they all have some desire to some day own a Pulitzer prize. The fact is that I've seen more rebuilding (of schools, of infrastructure, of homes) than actual knock down the door warfighting. Sure, we kick the hell out of the bad guys when we do fight them, but our bigger mission is to get Iraq back on its feet, which is more than just the insurgency. Whether Tall 'Afar or a thousand other towns and villages throughout the Iraq theater, our Soldiers are doing magnificent things on a daily basis that go largely unreported by our popular media.

And for those of you that point to all the terrorists that are now flocking to Iraq, I for one am glad we are able to fight them in places like Iraq, Syria, Djibouti, Oman, Yemen, Ethiopia, the Sudan, Afghanistan, and Somalia rather than being forced to fight them in San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Oklahoma City, and Tulsa. It sucks that we are losing people, and I am pretty sure I have lost more friends in Iraq and Afghanistan (as well as the other places I mentioned) than anybody else on the board, but I don't want those losses to be in vain, simply because somebody might not have the stomach for this fight. We can't afford to have a dozen psychos strapped with explosives in downtown Chicago this Summer. I'd rather drop them where they stand in Tikrit or Karbala.

amen. lock the thread.

[Herr Scholz]

Herr, you should be careful with comments like this. You are placing value on human life based on their address. Were the Jews worth the lives of US Soldiers in WWII? What about the French, Belgian, English etc.??

Which countries are on the "worth it" list?
Obviously not Sudan right now where genocide is occuring (or Rwanda when Clinton was there). Or Haiti? You could hit Haiti with a rock from Miami. Why didn't we go into those places?

We should have built a coalition before this war (like in Serbia) so the USA didn't bear the entire brunt of money and casualties.

[Herr Scholz]

OK, so your not saying our troops murdered innocent people. That they just killed them.

gotcha. :rolleyes:
Bush killed them. Think of it in these terms I know you'll understand - guns don't kill people, Bush does.

[SCOUT]

Obviously not Sudan right now where genocide is occuring (or Rwanda when Clinton was there). Or Haiti? You could hit Haiti with a rock from Miami. Why didn't we go into those places?

We should have built a coalition before this war (like in Serbia) so the USA didn't bear the entire brunt of money and casualties.

So you don't think the Sudanese are worth it but Haitians are? If you want to start a thread about Haiti, go ahead.

We are talking about Iraq. Right now, I have that Iraqi's aren't worth it and possibly the Sudanese. Which countries are worth it?

[Herr Scholz]

So you don't think the Sudanese are worth it but Haitians are? If you want to start a thread about Haiti, go ahead.
You missed my point. I was being sarcastic. You asked who wasn't on the 'worth it' list. I replied obviously not Sudan because atrocities are happening there right now and we aren't lifting a finger. Be careful labeling us as the protectors of the world ala WWII when we allow horrors to go on in these kinds of places because they're not worth it.

I asked you a question why we went to Iraq (twice) and not Sudan, Rwanda or Haiti?

Personally, I don't think it should always be our responsibility to solve the world's problems. Where's Europe in these Middle East and African problems? Why do we have to expend our money and the lives of our young people?

[Harry Beanbag]

Bush killed them. Think of it in these terms I know you'll understand - guns don't kill people, Bush does.


You disgust me.

[jk the sooner fan]

You disgust me.

but he's mainstream america, a middle of the road moderate, thinks just like everybody else

[Desert Sapper]

I asked you a question why we went to Iraq (twice) and not Sudan, Rwanda or Haiti?

The short answer is that we have been to Haiti (twice). We should have intervened in Rwanda, but Clinton was afraid of another Somalia. We will in Sudan, with the UN, but have not yet because our current force commitments to not allow it. Essentially, we are not involving ourselves in too many other issues without the forces behind our involvement.


Personally, I don't think it should always be our responsibility to solve the world's problems.

I agree, but we do have a responsibility to help the world solve it's problems, mainly because we are the sole surviving superpower (until China in 2020).


Where's Europe in these Middle East and African problems?

If history has taught you anything, it is that Europe does nothing until it has to. That being said, it will have too very soon.


Why do we have to expend our money and the lives of our young people?

Because we are trying to do the best now to preserve the world for us and our future generations. In the words of somebody far wiser than I (no, not GW), "We must not fail, we cannot fail, we will not fail." Anybody that guesses the quote gets a cookie, by the way.

[Vaevictis]

"We must not fail, we cannot fail, we will not fail." Anybody that guesses the quote gets a cookie, by the way.

Sounds like Churchill to me.

[Herr Scholz]

but he's mainstream america, a middle of the road moderate, thinks just like everybody else
I never said I was mainstream. Never said it. I'm definitely left.

However, since you like to paint YOURSELF that way, I'm still waiting for one Bush criticism from you. Even Arlen Specter can manage that.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Arlen Specter also came up with the bullet that defied physics theory with President Kennedy, let's never use him as an example evar again ;)

[Okieflyer]

This is why we fight.

[Stoop Dawg]

Personally, I don't think it should always be our responsibility to solve the world's problems. Where's Europe in these Middle East and African problems? Why do we have to expend our money and the lives of our young people?

For the same reason you expect us to expend our money to help the poor in America.

Unless, of course, you think that being born in America makes one more deserving of aid than someone born somewhere else.

[LoyalFan]

OK, OK. Let's mop this up once and for all!
You lily-livered, terrorist appeasing, Bush hating, Islamofascist, Cindy Sheehan-nursing (ewww!), Hillary osculating, Kerry licking, Murtha worshipping, Teddy adoring, America hating bastidges listen up!
If you are so hell-bent on undermining the struggle for our survival then imagine this if the sorry, roachridden, ragheaded bastidges win....
No Music.
No Sports.
No women's rights.
No right to criticize the ruling mullahs and imams.
Your teenage daughter crying 'cause she's denied an education.
Your son recruited to be a suicide bomber.
Your wife in a burkha, with hairy legs.
NO JOY! That's right! No joy permitted.
That's what the liberal *******s are trying to lead us to.
Wake the F--- up!
Re: Hillary, Murtha, Reid, Durbin, Teddy-poo, etc...Well, let's just say...ready, aim...
LoyalFan
American Veteran

[JohnnyMack]

OK, OK. Let's mop this up once and for all!
You lily-livered, terrorist appeasing, Bush hating, Islamofascist, Cindy Sheehan-nursing (ewww!), Hillary osculating, Kerry licking, Murtha worshipping, Teddy adoring, America hating bastidges listen up!
If you are so hell-bent on undermining the struggle for our survival then imagine this if the sorry, roachridden, ragheaded bastidges win....
No Music.
No Sports.
No women's rights.
No right to criticize the ruling mullahs and imams.
Your teenage daughter crying 'cause she's denied an education.
Your son recruited to be a suicide bomber.
Your wife in a burkha, with hairy legs.
NO JOY! That's right! No joy permitted.
That's what the liberal *******s are trying to lead us to.
Wake the F--- up!
Re: Hillary, Murtha, Reid, Durbin, Teddy-poo, etc...Well, let's just say...ready, aim...
LoyalFan
American Veteran

:rolleyes:

[soonerscuba]

OK, OK. Let's mop this up once and for all!
You lily-livered, terrorist appeasing, Bush hating, Islamofascist, Cindy Sheehan-nursing (ewww!), Hillary osculating, Kerry licking, Murtha worshipping, Teddy adoring, America hating bastidges listen up!
If you are so hell-bent on undermining the struggle for our survival then imagine this if the sorry, roachridden, ragheaded bastidges win....
No Music.
No Sports.
No women's rights.
No right to criticize the ruling mullahs and imams.
Your teenage daughter crying 'cause she's denied an education.
Your son recruited to be a suicide bomber.
Your wife in a burkha, with hairy legs.
NO JOY! That's right! No joy permitted.
That's what the liberal *******s are trying to lead us to.
Wake the F--- up!
Re: Hillary, Murtha, Reid, Durbin, Teddy-poo, etc...Well, let's just say...ready, aim...
LoyalFan
American Veteran

This might be the single dumbest thing ever written. Not just on the board, ever. Seriously.

[Octavian]

OK, OK. Let's mop this up once and for all!
You lily-livered, terrorist appeasing, Bush hating, Islamofascist, Cindy Sheehan-nursing (ewww!), Hillary osculating, Kerry licking, Murtha worshipping, Teddy adoring, America hating bastidges listen up!
If you are so hell-bent on undermining the struggle for our survival then imagine this if the sorry, roachridden, ragheaded bastidges win....
No Music.
No Sports.
No women's rights.
No right to criticize the ruling mullahs and imams.
Your teenage daughter crying 'cause she's denied an education.
Your son recruited to be a suicide bomber.
Your wife in a burkha, with hairy legs.
NO JOY! That's right! No joy permitted.
That's what the liberal *******s are trying to lead us to.
Wake the F--- up!
Re: Hillary, Murtha, Reid, Durbin, Teddy-poo, etc...Well, let's just say...ready, aim...
LoyalFan
American Veteran

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9279/fox2rv.th.png (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fox2rv.png)

[Desert Sapper]

Ok, nobody got the quote (although the one guess was in the same time frame)...let's try these...(A hint: the first is from the same guy that made the first quote)...


I do not know the dignity of their birth, but I do know the glory of their death. They died, unquestioning, uncomplaining, with faith in their hearts, and on their lips the hope that we would go on to victory.


Only the dead have seen the end of war.

[Hatfield]

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00008WFNE.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

My guess for that quote is Hitler or Stalin

[Harry Beanbag]

Douglas MacArthur

[soonerscuba]

It was already answered with the PLAY-DOH picture, and I'm thinking of a old Greek guy, whose name rhymes with play-doh.

[Desert Sapper]

Good job. You both deserve great big cookies. Too bad I only have one.

http://www.cookiesinheaven.com/images/cookies/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg