Attending an Anti-Indian Mascot presentation today

[Okla-homey]

This is gonna be good.

The Lakota presenter's stated position is indian mascots should not be allowed under any circumstances -- even with tribal approval.

I disagree. I also think she needs to be able to demonstrate actionable harm from the presence of indian mascots in order to prevail in a lawsuit seeking a judgment against schools like Tulsa's Union High School (Redskins.) I wanna hear what she has to say about that.

Personally, I think these anti-indian mascot folks would do better if they tried to convince the school boards vice hauling-off and suing them.

What do you guys think?

[TUSooner]

What? "Hurt feelings" is not actionable? :eek: It's been awhile since con-law, but I seem to recall that "hurt feelings" is essentially the whole basis for the last 4 decades of overzealous Establishment Clause jurisprudence. :rolleyes:

[Pieces Hit]

I say the Indian schools all name their mascots the " Fighting White Devils Who Killed Our Ancestors and Robbed Our Land" and we call it even.

[OU-HSV]

What I think is funny is that a lot of these groups that have been trying to ban the Indian mascots are white/Caucasian groups..and that's absurd

[Okla-homey]

What? "Hurt feelings" is not actionable? :eek: It's been awhile since con-law, but I seem to recall that "hurt feelings" is essentially the whole basis for the last 4 decades of overzealous Establishment Clause jurisprudence. :rolleyes:

One of the things she claims that is bad about indian mascots is this scenario:
High school A has a big game with HS B who has an indian mascot. HS A then holds a pep rally where the cheerleaders make signs that say "Scalp the Redskins" and beat-up indian effigies and such. She believes that makes indian kids feel bad about being indian which she contends is actionable harm.

That's also why she believes even in cases where the school has tribal approval (like Florida State) for its use of "Seminoles," such indian bashing as described above occurs among their athletic opponents on gameday and therefore FSU should be enjoined from using "Seminoles." Seriously.

[TUSooner]

One of the things she claims that is bad about indian mascots is this scenario:
High school A has a big game with HS B who has an indian mascot. HS A then holds a pep rally where the cheerleaders make signs that say "Scalp the Redskins" and beat-up indian effigies and such. She believes that makes indian kids feel bad about being indian which she contends is actionable harm.

That's also why she believes even in cases where the school has tribal approval (like Florida State) for its use of "Seminoles," such indian bashing as described above occurs among their athletic opponents on gameday and therefore FSU should be enjoined from using "Seminoles." Seriously.
But if the "redskins" win, wouldn't that boost their fragile self-esteem? Of course it's all BS psychobabble. If they can persuade schools to change, fine. Otherwise....plplplplplplp!

[Okla-homey]

What I think is funny is that a lot of these groups that have been trying to ban the Indian mascots are white/Caucasian groups..and that's absurd

This lady is indian. She's also leading the charge against North Dakota University for their use of "Fighting Sioux." She's purportedly almost single-handedly prevailed against attempts by NDU to get tribal approval for the use of that moniker from her people.

[Hatfield]

as far as con law goes, just explain that indian mascot names effect interstate commerce and you are good to go. Supreme Ct. will be stepping in post haste. (well that used to be their catch all but not really any more) ;)

[OU-HSV]

This lady is indian. She's also leading the charge against North Dakota University for their use of "Fighting Sioux." She's purportedly almost single-handedly prevailed against attempts by NDU to get tribal approval for the use of that moniker from her people.
Well then she's got a little momentum behind her I reckon

[TUSooner]

...She's also leading the charge against North Dakota University for their use of "Fighting Sioux." She's purportedly almost single-handedly prevailed against attempts by NDU to get tribal approval for the use of that moniker from her people.
I guess it's better than having a real job.

[OklahomaTuba]

If schools can't use the names, then why should casinos and smoke shops?

http://www.art-vision.com/Cherokee_Casino_Resort_72.jpg

Oh yea, schools don't make them any money. My bad.

[Hatfield]

If schools can't use the names, then why should casinos and smoke shops?

http://www.art-vision.com/Cherokee_Casino_Resort_72.jpg

Oh yea, schools don't make them any money. My bad.

not to rain(dance) on your parade, but the smoke shops and casinos are actually on tribal land or operated by the tribe respectively.....so they are an entirely different situation.

[OklahomaTuba]

not to rain(dance) on your parade, but the smoke shops and casinos are actually on tribal land or operated by the tribe respectively.....so they are an entirely different situation.

How so?


The Lakota presenter's stated position is indian mascots should not be allowed under any circumstances -- even with tribal approval.

This has tribal approval. Schools can be on tribal land. What the hell is the difference???

There is only one difference. Schools don't make these tribes money, and the casinos and smokeshops do.

If you are gonna get offended by your people's name representing something I would think a place like a casino or smoke shop would come first before a friggin place of learning does. But maybe thats just me.

[TexasLidig8r]

I TRIPLE DAWG DARE you to attend dressed up as a cigar store indian!

[critical_phil]

Oh yea, schools don't make them any money. My bad.



doesn't seem like it's making them that much money........



http://newsok.com/article/1755427/


Revenue projections miss mark

By Tony Thornton
The Oklahoman

Oklahoma casinos produced nearly $10.1 million for state education programs during 2005, according to documents from two state agencies.

Tribal casinos generated $9,338,169, and the state's racetrack casinos contributed $741,163.
The Office of State Finance previously expected to receive nearly $52.9 million this fiscal year from the casino industry. A number of factors recently caused Finance Director Claudia San Pedro to lower the total figure to $19.7 million. She also lowered next fiscal year's projection from $71 million to $41 million.........

[Hatfield]

Tuba before I go any further...are you really confused on this point?

You don't see the difference between a tribe using its name to promote its casino compared to a state or private university not affiliated with the tribe using their name/a derivative of their name/nickname for a mascot etc.?

you realize that when he says they shouldn't be used even with tribal support he is talking about non tribal entities, right?

[OklahomaTuba]

I bet they wouldn't like this. Or would they???

http://networkmanagementguide.com/imagescasinos/home_casino-games-Chiefs%20Fortune-3.jpg

[OklahomaTuba]

You don't see the difference between a tribe using its name to promote its casino compared to a state or private university not affiliated with the tribe using their name/a derivative of their name/nickname for a mascot etc.?

Yes, I see the difference.

One makes money for the tribe, the other doesn't.

Seems pretty damn simple to me.

If the tribes REALLY cared about their image and feelings (which they claim BTW), then why is it a crime to have a SCHOOL use the name which is public domain (for now at least), yet OK for the tribes name to be on a casino, casino games, smoke shops?

Please, explain that? :rolleyes:

[usmc-sooner]

One of you guys actually visit Pine Ridge which is a Sioux Reservation then spend a week or a couple of days there better yet a weekend and then come back and tell me what's more important. Mascots or their general standard of living?

[Hatfield]

so tuba you are advocating that the Cherokee shouldn't be able to call their casino the Cherokee casino.

makes about as much sense as you usually do.

[Hatfield]

does anyone know the history behind the word "redskin"? I'll give you a hint doesn't have anything to do with the natural color of their skin.

[OklahomaTuba]

One of you guys actually visit Pine Ridge which is a Sioux Reservation then spend a week or a couple of days there better yet a weekend and then come back and tell me what's more important. Mascots or their general standard of living?

I really don't give two craps about the casinos with the names, or schools with the names, etc.

If they make money using their land and their tribe, more power to them.

I just think its beyond hypocritical to come after schools like Union and others for using the names and mascots, when casinos and smokeshops that directly benefit the tribes do the same and nothing is ever said about it.

[OklahomaTuba]

so tuba you are advocating that the Cherokee shouldn't be able to call their casino the Cherokee casino.

makes about as much sense as you usually do.

Nice.

Can't even a simple friggin question, can you? Personal attacks are so much easier though.

See above.

[usmc-sooner]

It's Indian politics at it's very worst. My tribe has recalls, revotes all the time on who the chairmen is, money gets lost, stolen and the people get upset over stuff that doesn't even freakin matter.

It's a way for the Indian politicians to act like they're doing a job and caring about their people when they are basically ignoring every single major issue concerning tribal well being. What's it going to matter about mascots when these elected officials have wrecked and ignored the important issues and the tribes are run into the ground.

[Hatfield]

Tuba

maybe you can explain your stance of it is not ok for indian tribes to use their name for their own benefit if they then wish to deny others not affiliated with the tribe the ability use either their name or an offensive slang derivative of their name.

and i will apologize for the you not making sense comment.

[GDC]

I really don't give two craps about the casinos with the names, or schools with the names, etc.

If they make money using their land and their tribe, more power to them.

I just think its beyond hypocritical to come after schools like Union and others for using the names and mascots, when casinos and smokeshops that directly benefit the tribes do the same and nothing is ever said about it.

That's ridiculous. Of course it's called the Cherokee Casino, it's owned and run by Cherokees. Sequoyah High School's nickname is the Indians, btw. The only terms that shouldn't be allowed are derogatory ones like Savages, Redskins, and Metrosexual Bald Whorn Attorneys.

[C&CDean]

Heh. My kid's team played the Indians, the Savages, and will be playing the Warriors in regional high school basketball action tonight.

[OklahomaTuba]

Tuba

maybe you can explain your stance of it is not ok for indian tribes to use their name for their own benefit if they then wish to deny others not affiliated with the tribe the ability use either their name or an offensive slang derivative of their name.

Again, I don't give 2 ****s about if the tribe use the name or not. I also don't give two ****s if a school uses the words or mascots either.

Again, the tribe is talking about being OFFENDED.

However, to me it reeks of hypocracy to come after school districts for using the name when nothing is said about casinos and smoke shops doing nearly the same damn thing with names, images on games, the Chief coming to visit VIPs, etc.

Heard of redskin poker? What about the slots with the chief on it? Damn those seem OK. Yet a school can't have that? BS.

So I guess its OK for the tribes to whore out their tribe name to the highest bidder, yet a school its bad.

Seems simple enough to me.

[Hatfield]

so the answer is you don't understand that the casinos are run by the tribes and the schools using offensive names aren't. simple enough answer. thanks for your time.

i notice nobody has bothered to let me know if they are aware of the origin of "redskin"....because if you did know where it came from you would understand why indians would be upset with that term being a mascot.

[GDC]

so the answer is you don't understand that the casinos are run by the tribes and the schools using offensive names aren't. simple enough answer. thanks for your time.

i notice nobody has bothered to let me know if they are aware of the origin of "redskin"....because if you did know where it came from you would understand why indians would be upset with that term being a mascot.

Thanks for the first part, and yes, I do know the origin of the term redskin.

[TUSooner]

Tuba before I go any further...are you really confused on this point?

You don't see the difference between a tribe using its name to promote its casino compared to a state or private university not affiliated with the tribe using their name/a derivative of their name/nickname for a mascot etc.?

you realize that when he says they shouldn't be used even with tribal support he is talking about non tribal entities, right?

Hey Hat - Your first mistake was presuming that Tuba wants to understand even something as simple as the difference between tribes using THEIR OWN NAMES and others using tribal names; while you are explaining, he's just reloading. :rolleyes:

[1stTimeCaller]

Hat, I do not know of the origin. you can PM me if you want to.

[TUSooner]

so the answer is you don't understand that the casinos are run by the tribes and the schools using offensive names aren't. simple enough answer. thanks for your time.

i notice nobody has bothered to let me know if they are aware of the origin of "redskin"....because if you did know where it came from you would understand why indians would be upset with that term being a mascot.
Before you go on, there is NO empirical basis for the current myth (a spurious etymology) that "redskin" refers to bloody scalps. (Frank DeFord is just wrong about that.) "Redskin" may well be derogatory, but has always referred to the skin tone of Native Americans; that's all.

[yermom]

shouldn't they start with pro teams?

i mean the Washington Redskins probably take in more cash than all of the teams mentioned so far combined

[Hatfield]

my step-sister and her native american club at KU attended the chiefs/redskins game and one of the signs had a picture of Bush and read Honor Your Own Damn Cheif.

that was pretty funny.

[Hatfield]

stupid double post.

[sooner_born_1960]

The Washington NFL team shoud change their mascot to my favorite legume, the redskin peanut.

[Nab'R]

I get what Tuba is saying. It's apparantly not offensive for the tribe to use a name to describe anything. But, if someone else uses it, it becomes offensive. So, is it offensive or not?

That's like black rappers using the n word all the time. But, if a white person uses it, it becomes a horribly offensive word.

Looks like to me if it's offensive, it's offensive in every use, not just some. That's what Tuba seems to be saying.

[Hatfield]

so you are telling me that if you own a casino and you decide to call it Nab'R casino you see no difference in that and someone not connected to you using your name or an offensive derivative of your name

they are completely the same?

[Nab'R]

What I am saying is if someone calls me fat butt and I become offended and mad at them then I shouldn't be able to call myself fat butt and not be offended by it. You shouldn't be offended/not offended depending on who is saying it. Whatever the word is. Isn't that how it should be? Offensiveness should be offensiveness regardless of who is saying it.

[picasso]

Yes, I see the difference.

One makes money for the tribe, the other doesn't.

Seems pretty damn simple to me.

If the tribes REALLY cared about their image and feelings (which they claim BTW), then why is it a crime to have a SCHOOL use the name which is public domain (for now at least), yet OK for the tribes name to be on a casino, casino games, smoke shops?

Please, explain that? :rolleyes:
dude, you need to slow down a bit there. geez.
TRIBES do not disapprove of mascots as a whole. Like all other groups/cultures, there are some who do and some who do not.
A good friend of mine wrote a scathing letter to the NCAA about Southeastern changing their name. He's Osage and works for his tribe and played football at said school.

And quit bitching about tribal gaming. We (the stupid people) approved it.

[Hatfield]

i haven't said it is right or wrong...just pointing out that the situations are different.

[47straight]

What I want to know is how is it some Lakota's business what the Seminoles and/or Sioux want to do in lending out their name to a university? Does she think we're all so dumb we don't know there's a difference?

[picasso]

What I want to know is how is it some Lakota's business what the Seminoles and/or Sioux want to do in lending out their name to a university? Does she think we're all so dumb we don't know there's a difference?
do you visually?
I think the main problem is it's demeaning to some. they have that right to feel that way. could you tell the difference between a Sioux and Seminole just by looking at them? if not then they're probably all lumped into one big group aren't they.

[1stTimeCaller]

do you visually?
I think the main problem is it's demeaning to some. they have that right to feel that way. could you tell the difference between a Sioux and Seminole just by looking at them? if not then they're probably all lumped into one big group aren't they.

Did you know that black guys think white guys smell like new born babys? It's true, look it up!

[Sooner_Bob]

Sometimes people mean to offend and sometimes they don't.

Sometimes people really are offended and sometimes they get told they are offended.

There was a time when "whitey" could say and do anything without fear of being rebuked. That's not so much the case now and it's hard for people to understand . . .

[picasso]

Did you know that black guys think white guys smell like new born babys? It's true, look it up!
I think white guys all pretty much look alike.

[Sooner_Bob]

White men can't jump.

[picasso]

White men can't jump.
or dance.

or walk without looking goofy.

or finger roll.;)

[Sooner_Bob]

white men gamble at indian casinos

[TexasLidig8r]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gifAttending an Anti-Indian... (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1193866#post1193866) 2/10/2006 09:26 AM so you're a racist on top of everything else-gdc

spek reported.

[GDC]

I TRIPLE DAWG DARE you to attend dressed up as a cigar store indian!

Well, apparently you are racist, or at least prejudiced against people of color, especially when you factor in your MLK remarks.

[SCOUT]

does anyone know the history behind the word "redskin"? I'll give you a hint doesn't have anything to do with the natural color of their skin.

According to the Smithsonian:
The word redskin is derived from an expression used in some Native American languages, the earliest known being found in a manuscript dictionary of the Illinois language written in the early 1700's. Specifically, redskin and the parallel whiteskin are translations of terms that came to notice in the formal speeches and other declarations of Indian chiefs of various tribes in the upper Mississippi Valley and lower Missouri Valley.

http://www.si.edu/research/spotlight/3_17.htm#3_17_redskin

[Hatfield]

sometimes I speak with a forked tongue

[47straight]

do you visually?
I think the main problem is it's demeaning to some. they have that right to feel that way. could you tell the difference between a Sioux and Seminole just by looking at them? if not then they're probably all lumped into one big group aren't they.

:confused: Demeaning to some.... WHAT? Demeaning to Sioux? Demeaning to Cherokee? Demeaning to my Pakistani friends?

I can't figure out if you're saying - lump em all in, that gives the Lakota woman reason to bitch, or - don't lump em all in.

I'm saying - Don't lump all tribes in. That in fact is what some anti-mascoteers gripe about, that every Native American gets portrayed the same, no matter differences in the tribe. Well, when the U of Illnoize gets out their Chief Illini, who is historically recreated and researched for accuracy, that seems to blow that claim out of the water.

Honestly, outside of Oklahoma/New Mexico/Arizona/Alaska, there aren't many native americans at all. Without some PR, most americans will just think of native americans in connection to casinos, or WORSE - not at all. Then, solving real problems on reservations, etc, is going to get really, really hard. Out of sight, out of mind.

For that reason, savvy native american groups should use college mascots as a way of increasing awareness. Any number of tribes have tons of history, traditions, values that I would be love to have attached to my school, especially if they are the local tribe.

Then again, I'm the guy who would have put Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull on the dollar coin instead of Sacajewea.

[n8v_ndn]

According to the Smithsonian:
The word redskin is derived from an expression used in some Native American languages, the earliest known being found in a manuscript dictionary of the Illinois language written in the early 1700's. Specifically, redskin and the parallel whiteskin are translations of terms that came to notice in the formal speeches and other declarations of Indian chiefs of various tribes in the upper Mississippi Valley and lower Missouri Valley.

http://www.si.edu/research/spotlight/3_17.htm#3_17_redskin

The above is attributed to the work of Smithsonian Institution senior linguist Ives Goddard, who 'spent seven months researching its history and concluded that "redskin" was first used by Native Americans in the 18th century to distinguish themselves from the white "other" encroaching on their lands and culture.'

HOWEVER, even he concedes that the earliest known use of the term 'red skins' by Natives is the result of Whites translating Natives speaking (as they saw fit):


"I shall be pleased to have you come to speak to me yourself," said one statement attributed to a chief named Mosquito. "And if any redskins do you harm, I shall be able to look out for you even at the peril of my life." The French used the phrase " peaux Rouges " -- literally "red skins" -- to translate the chief's words.

Goddard acknowledged it is impossible to know whether the chiefs said "redskin" in their own languages, but interpreters in many contexts and with many tribes in this time period treated the word as an expression that only Indians used. The same is true of "white-skin."

It's also important to note that AFTER the term 'red skins' first appearance, a trend began in America that associated a negative, racist, and derogatory connotation (A *few* examples):

An 1871 novel spoke of "redskinned devils." The Rocky Mountain News in 1890 described a war on the whites by "every greasy redskin." The Denver Daily News the same year reported a rebellion by "the most treacherous red skins."

There are even *disputed* 'red skin' bounty posters said to date to the 18th century.

Popular movies that followed imply negative connotations to the word as well:


movie references by Hollywood icons Eddie Cantor, Bob Hope, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart and others. In "Northwest Passage," Spencer Tracy, as a colonial explorer who hates Indians, importunes a subordinate to "Get a redskin for me, won't you?"

I think noted University of Connecticut historian Nancy Shoemaker summed it up nicely:


even if the Indians were the first to use it, the origin has no relationship to later use. What happened at the beginning doesn't justify it today.

[Soonrboy]

What I want to know is how is it some Lakota's business what the Seminoles and/or Sioux want to do in lending out their name to a university? Does she think we're all so dumb we don't know there's a difference?


Not to nitpick, but the Lakota are part of the Sioux nation. So, it is her business.

[TUSooner]

does anyone know the history behind the word "redskin"? I'll give you a hint doesn't have anything to do with the natural color of their skin.


Before you go on, there is NO empirical basis for the current myth (a spurious etymology) that "redskin" refers to bloody scalps. (Frank DeFord is just wrong about that.) "Redskin" may well be derogatory, but has always referred to the skin tone of Native Americans; that's all.

Oher posters have explained it better and in more detail than I did, but if you were hinting at the "bloody scalp" myth, I just wanted to save you the trouble. :)
Carry on!

[TUSooner]

..Seems pretty damn simple to me...:rolleyes:
Doesn't everything?
And therein lies the problem with many blasts from the Tuba

[SoonerBorn68]

http://www.hdbeat.com/images/2005/09/Fighting%20Irish%202.jpg

I'm of Irish descent so this is very offensive to me. The Irish were discriminated against as immigrants, and this image and mascot depicts a sterotype. Get rid of the "Fighting Irish". :rolleyes:

I was a Warrior in HS & am very proud of it.

[SoonerBorn68]

Cowboys depicts a stereotypical redneck...usually white. C'ya.

[Stitch Face]

Not to nitpick, but the Lakota are part of the Sioux nation. So, it is her business.

I thought Lakota and Sioux were the same thing; like, they call themselves Lakota and others named them Sioux. Sorta like the Mexica/Aztecs.

[royalfan5]

I thought Lakota and Sioux were the same thing; like, they call themselves Lakota and others named them Sioux. Sorta like the Mexica/Aztecs.
I think Lakota's are a group of Sioux, because I know there are Ogala Sioux and Santee Sioux as well. The Santee have a strong prescence in Nebraska and an illegal casino. The state is too lazy to shut them down, so we just fine them everyday. It's part of their cost of doing business.

[Okla-homey]

Well, I went to the presentation. The lady seriously does believe the things I mentioned.

To her and apparently many other indians, use of their images and symbols without permission is an aggregious violation of their tribal sovereignty and their cultural and religious dignity. She did concede that they really don't have a cause of action to bring lawsuits in most cases simply because they can't quantify their damages in any compelling or demonstrable way.

She also concedes that seeking to change public opinion is probably going to be more effective than hauling schools into court with one principle exception -- that being the NDU case. Apparently, Sioux kids attending NDU just don't go to games because the other side, especially their big in-state rival NDSU, often carry signs and make banners that say "F the Sioux" and "Rape their squaws" and stuff like that. She's an NDU alumna and a Sioux, so presumably she's not just making this up:eek:

Interestingly, there is federal legislation (Lanham Act) regulating trademarks they are using to sue the Washington Redskins (a commercial activity) to enjoin thier use of the name "Redskins" as a trademark. On the basis of provisions of the Lanham Act, they've been successful so far in preventing the Redskins from renewing the trademark. Their ultimate goal is to make them stop altogether.

As an aside, they can't get the Cleveland Indians or Chicago Blackhawks because none of the prospective plaintiffs were alive when the team name/mascot was chosen and the courts have held the doctrine of laches prevents them from bringing a case under the Lanham Act.

Here's the relevant part of Title 15 USC 1052:

§1052. Trademarks registrable on the principal register; concurrent registration
No trademark by which the goods of the applicant may be distinguished from the goods of others shall be refused registration on the principal register on account of its nature unless it--

(a)
Consists of or comprises immoral, deceptive, or scandalous matter; or matter which may disparage or falsely suggest a connection with persons, living or dead, institutions, beliefs, or national symbols, or bring them into contempt, or disrepute; or a geographical indication which, when used on or in connection with wines or spirits, identifies a place other than the origin of the goods and is first used on or in connection with wines or spirits by the applicant on or after one year after the date on which the WTO Agreement (as defined in section 2(9) of the Uruguay Round Agreements Act [19 USC §3501(9)]) enters into force with respect to the United States.

Also interestingly, there may be a problem with this state seal which uses tribal symbols without permission -- each point of the star contains the symbol of one of the so-called "Five Civilized Tribes."

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7483/okgoldseal2ur.gif (http://imageshack.us)

and this state flag which incorporates eagle feathers and a ceremonial pipe which are sacred indian symbols used without permission.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2999/oknunst0599hv.gif (http://imageshack.us)

and this state flag which incorporates a Zuni sacred symbol used without permission.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5451/nmflag8nd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Stitch Face]

Wouldn't it make more sense if it said "Seal Of The Great State Of Oklahoma" instead of "Great Seal Of The State Of Oklahoma?" Our new motto should be: "Oklahoma Is OK, But Our Seal Is Great!"


Back on the Lakota/Sioux thing: I thought Sioux was the assigned name by outsiders because it was some sort of derogatory word. Anybody who speaks Native know what it means?

[LoyalFan]

Solution:

"Draw Sabers!"
"Buglerrrrrr..."
"At Gallop!"
"Chaaaaaarge!"

It worked before, most of the time, anyway.

"There are better days to be, for the Seventh Cavalree, when we charge again for Dear Old Garryowen!" (Just ask those waqi Iraqis. See: "Road to Baghdad", 2003, starring the 3rd Squadron, 7th (By God!) Cavalry.)

Loyal(MOS 1203/1204)Fan

[AlbqSooner]

Homey - the Oklahoma flag also depicts an Osage warrior's shield, presumably also without permission.

[Okla-homey]

Homey - the Oklahoma flag also depicts an Osage warrior's shield, presumably also without permission.

Yeah, but its use is neither offensive nor a violation of tribal proprietary rights since the shield has no "religious significance." Eagle feathers and pipes do (apparently.)

[JohnnyMack]

Solution:

"Draw Sabers!"
"Buglerrrrrr..."
"At Gallop!"
"Chaaaaaarge!"

It worked before, most of the time, anyway.

"There are better days to be, for the Seventh Cavalree, when we charge again for Dear Old Garryowen!" (Just ask those waqi Iraqis. See: "Road to Baghdad", 2003, starring the 3rd Squadron, 7th (By God!) Cavalry.)

Loyal(MOS 1203/1204)Fan

Most.

Offensive.

Post.

Evar.

[JohnnyMack]

Honestly, outside of Oklahoma/New Mexico/Arizona/Alaska, there aren't many native americans at all.

Who's fault is that again? I forget.

[usmc-sooner]

47

there are a lot of Indians in Montana (7 reservations) South and North Dakota, Minnesota, Florida, California, Utah, Kansas, Nebraska, Texas

[AlbqSooner]

47

there are a lot of Indians in Montana (7 reservations) South and North Dakota, Minnesota, Florida, California, Utah, Kansas, Nebraska, Texas
I lived in Florida for 18 years. Have to disagree.

[LoyalFan]

Most.

Offensive.

Post.

Evar.

I win! I win!

LF

[royalfan5]

I lived in Florida for 18 years. Have to disagree.
However, lots might be a relative term in this case.

[stoopified]

ZZZZZZZZZZ.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Lets just change the state flag to a pic of mohamed with a bomb for a turban. No problems there.... :D

[usmc-sooner]

I lived in Florida for 18 years. Have to disagree.

I doubt you lived in some of the rural areas that the Seminole live but there are a few in Florida. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

Honestly, outside of Oklahoma/New Mexico/Arizona/Alaska,

Near as I understand it, the Native Americans in Alaska are concentrated in Southeast. Most of what you get up here are Native Alaskans, which is a different ethnic group.

Or so I understand it.

[picasso]

I thought Lakota and Sioux were the same thing; like, they call themselves Lakota and others named them Sioux. Sorta like the Mexica/Aztecs.
Lakota, Nakota and Dakota. The Lakota Sioux are the most famous group that was slowy forced west.

and 47, I think we're just misunderstanding each other. I'm saying if you have a silly mascot representing one tribe, it still may make a member of another tribe upset. ???

[picasso]

Solution:

"Draw Sabers!"
"Buglerrrrrr..."
"At Gallop!"
"Chaaaaaarge!"

It worked before, most of the time, anyway.

"There are better days to be, for the Seventh Cavalree, when we charge again for Dear Old Garryowen!" (Just ask those waqi Iraqis. See: "Road to Baghdad", 2003, starring the 3rd Squadron, 7th (By God!) Cavalry.)

Loyal(MOS 1203/1204)Fan
I'll take Crazy Horse and his boys anyday in a fair fight. If you'll recall Jack, they needed more than just their sabers.

[47straight]

Not to nitpick, but the Lakota are part of the Sioux nation. So, it is her business.

Fair enough. Apparently, I am too dumb to know the difference.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I say the Indian schools all name their mascots the " Fighting White Devils Who Killed Our Ancestors and Robbed Our Land" and we call it even.

And who would care???

I say some school needs to rename themselves the "Fightin' Whitey's" and see the hilarity begin...