Being a strong arm commie dictator just doesn't bring the perks it use to......

[OklahomaTuba]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20060128SheehanChavez.jpg
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060128/ids_photos_wl/r900171404.jpg

[Jerk]

Oh, come on now. You're being a little bit insensitive, or dare I say, "close minded."

Communism isn't so bad. It has only led to the deaths of 100 million people. I mean, WTF man? This world is over-populated anyway. And besides, once we get the right people in charge, they'll run it the right way.

Oh, Cindy, please run for a Democrat office somewhere where you can get elected, say, CA or Mass?

Everyone to be equal, and everyone will be misera....err....happy!

[Big Red Ron]

Pol Pot just rolled over in his grave.

[JohnnyMack]

I thought he got elected President, you know, like that one country does it, where is it? Oh, yeah, Iraq.

[LoyalFan]

Pol just rolled some Pot over in his grave.

Repaired under warranty!

Mr. GoodFan

[Big Red Ron]

I thought he got elected President, you know, like that one country does it, where is it? Oh, yeah, Iraq.More like how Stalin and Hitler were elected. Iraq's elections are probably "cleaner" than ours right now.

[OUthunder]

Hitler built roads and stuff. :D

[Big Red Ron]

Hitler built roads and stuff. :DKept the trains on time too...:texan:

[Flagstaffsooner]

Kept the trains on time too...:texan:Sober up, that was Mussolini.

[Big Red Ron]

Sober up, that was Mussolini.Tell that to the Jews.



Lord I'm sorry that wasn't even funny.

[Big Red Ron]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif

FYI-I know who left this and you're a chicken**** for not signing it. Lighten up and get a sense of humor.

[Octavian]

Chavez is no commie and yes he was elected. It was their people's choice. It's an anti-American trend that is enveloping Latin America. Sitting back and calling them communists will get us nowhere. National socialists are not communists. Calling them the same distorts the real issues unfolding.

I have no idea why W's neocon intellectuals didn't bother to brush up on 19th or 20th century history before they advised the President to start telling everyone that democracy would be a global cure-all for all the world's problems. We've preached democracy ad nauseum for 5 years and invaded two countries to make them "free." Now, we denounce democratically elected Hamas, the democratically elected Iranian regime, Chavez, (AND WE SHOULD) and a couple other nations that meet all of W's "freedom" standards. The US has generally sought compliance w/ hopes of markets opening up. Not democracy.

When managing an Empire, rule #1 is to be pragmatic. After 50 years of Republicans correctly maligning Democratic leaders for being too idealistic in foreign policy, 9/11 sure allowed their fantasy wing to push through terrible policy. Or, if not terrible policy...definetely terrible reasoning given to the public for that policy. No turning back now...Thanks Wolfowitz.

[Big Red Ron]

Octavian, I suggest you brush up on your latin American Electoral Systems and get back to us on how this guy was "democratically elected."

[Octavian]

Octavian, I suggest you brush up on your latin American Electoral Systems and get back to us on how this guy was "democratically elected."

Good point. Its a far cry from pure. That doesnt take away from the fact that Latin America is drifting leftward in a populist manner. I dont like it. But our policies toward the region haven't helped us out. They perceive the Yanks as corporate raiders who will screw over their family members for cheap labor...US-backed companies and banks are not exactly popular there for good reasons, and their leaders have distorted facts to capitalize politically. We've done a poor job at being pro-active in the region since Reagan left.

[BoomerJack]

Octavian, I suggest you brush up on your latin American Electoral Systems and get back to us on how this guy was "democratically elected."

For the sake of being "fair and balanced", while Octavian is researching how Chavez came to office, why don't you research and explain how he did it through undemocratic means?

[Big Red Ron]

For the sake of being "fair and balanced", while Octavian is researching how Chavez came to office, why don't you research and explain how he did it through undemocratic means?Easy, he didn't and that was the main point.

[Octavian]

For the sake of being "fair and balanced", while Octavian is researching how Chavez came to office, why don't you research and explain how he did it through undemocratic means?

Ok, what does "un-democratic" mean? Is it when more people in a nation vote for one person, but the other candidate assumes office?

Careful, theres a big difference between legal victory and democratic victory.
This point should be glaringly obvious to 21st century Americans.

[Octavian]

Heh. Ron, I'm sorta dissapointed that you'd neg me for that. Masters thesis aside (congrats by the way), you missed my point that the entire region is experiencing a reactionary leftist backlash against the US. If your thesis was on Latin American electoral systems, you should know enough about the region to grasp that. ...And that we've put ourselves in a quandry b/c we've been preaching democracy out our *** w/out thinking about what we'd do when foreign people's choose leaders that are anti-American.

Anyways, I wont neg ya back. I reserve that for those that are flamers and trolls, not those giving their calm honest oppinions.

[soonerscuba]

We've done a poor job at being pro-active in the region since Reagan left.

I would argue that Reagan helped the region get into the position it is today. Hindsight is 20/20 but we propped up some terrible people down there and the anti-American backlash that has occurred is really not incredibly surprising to me.

Chavez has been put to the test 2 or 3 times, and it seems that the elections have been internationally certified. He has a fierce and well funded opposition for sure though. His restriction on media is my primary beef with the man, other stories are greatly exaggerated by his opponents.

[Octavian]

I would argue that Reagan helped the region get into the position it is today. Hindsight is 20/20 but we propped up some terrible people down there and the anti-American backlash that has occurred is really not incredibly surprising to me.

True. But, in Reagan's defense, the alternative was often equally terrible leftist regimes that favored the USSR. We chose what we believed to be the lesser of two evils. Thats the curse of great powes. Action results in great consequences. Inaction does the same.


Chavez has been put to the test 2 or 3 times, and it seems that the elections have been internationally certified. He has a fierce and well funded opposition for sure though. His restriction on media is my primary beef with the man, other stories are greatly exaggerated by his opponents.

Wow....someone is making sense. Completely agree.

[soonerscuba]

True. But, in Reagan's defense, the alternative was often equally terrible leftist regimes that favored the USSR. We chose what we believed to be the lesser of two evils. Thats the curse of great powes. Action results in great consequences. Inaction does the same.

I would generally agree with that, rough business none the less though.

[BoomerJack]

Easy, he didn't and that was the main point.

With tongue firmly in cheek, I ask; are you now saying that Chavez DID NOT come to office UNDEMOCRATICALLY? But in order to save time and cyberspace, here's the way this little ****ing contest is gonna go.

BigRedRon: did not!!

BoomerJack: did too!!

BigRedRon: did not!!

BoomerJack: did too!!

blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

[OklahomaTuba]

Octavian, I suggest you brush up on your latin American Electoral Systems and get back to us on how this guy was "democratically elected."

Wasn't Saddam elected by his people as well?

Jimmy Carter said it was legit, so dammit its legit!

[OklahomaTuba]

Chavez is no commie and yes he was elected. It was their people's choice.
How stupid of me, of course Chavez is not a communist, he just believes in a 'kinder, gentler, fair-market form of capitalism' in which the means of production and distribution of goods are controlled by the state.

Silly me for getting the two mixed up. :rolleyes:

[OklahomaTuba]

He has a fierce and well funded opposition for sure though. His restriction on media is my primary beef with the man, other stories are greatly exaggerated by his opponents.
So I guess the fact that those who were on strike against PDVSA not being able to work or vote or leave the country is BS then? Cause thats something we have had to work around at my company for the last few years now.

Also, many good people seemed to have disappeared who were part of PDVSA and Citgo. Guess thats just another exaggeration as well.

[BoomerJack]

.Also, many good people seemed to have disappeared who were part of PDVSA and Citgo. Guess thats just another exaggeration as well.

First I've heard of this. I assume you are speaking of some sort of "dirty war" ala what occured in Chile, I think it was and maybe Argentina many years ago. You got any links or ideas where to find more data about this???

[Octavian]

How stupid of me, of course Chavez is not a communist, he just believes in a 'kinder, gentler, fair-market form of capitalism' in which the means of production and distribution of goods are controlled by the state.

Silly me for getting the two mixed up. :rolleyes:

Easy to be so derogative when you work for a good company in the richest nation on Earth since Rome.

If you grew up in a place where food was hard to come by and education was virtually non-existant, you might care less about the evils of socialism and more about your siblings having something to eat and your parents having a decent roof over their head.

When people are dirt poor they generally aren't for cutting children's lunch programs so the wealthiest in society can have a little more. Just b/c someone isn't in favor of Laffer's Curve doesn't make them Communists.

I'm not for socialism b/c IMO it creates a cycle of dependence...but I can see why people in the 3rd world wouldnt be giddy about the prospect of American-led post-industrial global capitalism.

Saying this probably qualifies me as a card-carrying commie too huh?

[soonerscuba]

Also, many good people seemed to have disappeared who were part of PDVSA and Citgo. Guess thats just another exaggeration as well.
I bet he got a discount from the guy that iced Vince Foster.

[SoonerProphet]

How many political parties were legal in Baathist Iraq compared to Venezuela? Easy to win elections if you are the only gig in town. Don't think that was the deal in Venezuela

[Stoop Dawg]

How many political parties were legal in Baathist Iraq compared to Venezuela? Easy to win elections if you are the only gig in town. Don't think that was the deal in Venezuela

Kinda like trying to get anyone but a Dem or Rep elected here, eh?

[Stoop Dawg]

Easy to be so derogative when you work for a good company in the richest nation on Earth since Rome.

If you grew up in a place where food was hard to come by and education was virtually non-existant, you might care less about the evils of socialism and more about your siblings having something to eat and your parents having a decent roof over their head.

When people are dirt poor they generally aren't for cutting children's lunch programs so the wealthiest in society can have a little more. Just b/c someone isn't in favor of Laffer's Curve doesn't make them Communists.

I'm not for socialism b/c IMO it creates a cycle of dependence...but I can see why people in the 3rd world wouldnt be giddy about the prospect of American-led post-industrial global capitalism.

Saying this probably qualifies me as a card-carrying commie too huh?

I just watched "The Patriot" again last night. Hollywood antics aside, I have to imagine that many (most?) of those fighting for American freedom did not have good jobs and live in the richest country on Earth.

I'm fairly certain that I, personally, am not cut from the same cloth as those who fought and died for the freedom that I enjoy today. But to say that being poor eliminates one's interest in self-government doesn't ring true to me.

And for the record, I haven't a clue about Venezuela.

[soonerboomer93]

damn commie






:D

[StoopTroup]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20060128SheehanChavez.jpg

I wonder if he hit that?