Collegefootballnews compares UT and OU [Archive]

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footballfanatic

1/27/2006, 04:20 PM

From Collgefootballnews. Mack prepared his team better than Stoops did:

"To focus on the winning team first, let's say this about Texas: the Longhorns had a chance to crack early on after Aaron Ross' fumbled punt. After all, it was a muffed punt that killed Oklahoma's will against USC in the 2005 Orange Bowl. Credit Texas for not flinching, a teamwide characteristic that remained true even when USC took that late 38-26 lead. By not giving way in the first quarter, Texas set the stage for an even better display of grit in the fourth quarter. Whereas OU allowed Mark Bradley's turnover to sabotage the Sooners' collective mindset last year in Miami--creating a result that was not a reflection of OU's quality throughout the 2004 season--Texas did not let mistakes get into their heads. Given how Mack Brown's evident and substantial improvement as a coach has been linked to his use of a sports psychologist, it makes sense that Texas' psychological profile gave the Longhorns the focus needed to slug it out with USC for 60 minutes. When you don't flinch against the Trojans, you can compete, and it should not be lost on anyone that Troy--with a late face-mask penalty and a timeout snafu in the final minutes--made the final and most decisive mental errors of the game."

??

BASSooner

1/27/2006, 04:21 PM

hmmmm maybe OU had a down year this year and texas was the best team that mack had

Desert Sapper

1/27/2006, 04:39 PM

I agree that it was a complete team mental breakdown in the OB. I give credit to the Whorns for not succombing to the same problem. I don't, however, think that saxet faced the same Condoms in the RB that we did in the OB. In the RB, they kept trying to get hold of the Whorn Juggular, but they never could. In the OB, their Defense made statement after statement. Our weak secondary only served to add emphasis.

Tuck Fexas

colleyvillesooner

1/27/2006, 04:45 PM

After all, it was a muffed punt that killed Oklahoma's will against USC in the 2005 Orange Bowl.

:mad: The two picks thrown promptly after had nothing to do with it.

OU-HSV

1/27/2006, 04:58 PM

Damn..where did Tuesday go.

Big Red Ron

1/27/2006, 04:59 PM

:mad: The two picks thrown promptly after had nothing to do with it.Yeah, thankfully they had full liquer bars at Pro Player Stadium. I went and a had a couple of belts and tried to drown my sorrow. It was sorta working until Ashlee Simpson started screeching though.:mad:

colleyvillesooner

1/27/2006, 05:04 PM

Yeah, thankfully they had full liquer bars at Pro Player Stadium. I went and a had a couple of belts and tried to drown my sorrow. It was sorta working until Ashlee Simpson started screeching though.:mad:

We probably stood next to each other in the line and in the bathroom. That's when I started drikning too. :O

GottaHavePride

1/27/2006, 05:21 PM

:mad: The two picks thrown promptly after had nothing to do with it.

I have no copies of that game, but I remember that at the time it appeared that the ball did not alter its spin or arc going over Bradley's arm. I still say he didn't touch that ball - it was close, but I think it bounced clean over his arm and the refs blew it.

NormanPride

1/27/2006, 05:33 PM

I have no copies of that game, but I remember that at the time it appeared that the ball did not alter its spin or arc going over Bradley's arm. I still say he didn't touch that ball - it was close, but I think it bounced clean over his arm and the refs blew it.

*shakes head* It's okay, man. It's okay.

Octavian

1/27/2006, 05:41 PM

Given how Mack Brown's evident and substantial improvement as a coach was linked to letting Vince Young tell him how the offense should be ran...then letting Vince put Texas on his shoulders and win big games...

fixed.

Rock Hard Corn Frog

1/27/2006, 05:49 PM

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

1/27/2006, 05:54 PM

hmmmm maybe OU had a down year this year and texas was the best team that mack hadHA HA, You might have something there! Also, I don't think OU's OB team went mental until Jason threw that interception off his back foot into triple coverage.

Scott D

1/27/2006, 06:14 PM

That game likely has a different outcome if USC didn't get stung by one player declaring early for the draft last year.

TheGodfather889

1/27/2006, 06:19 PM

Maybe it was because Texas had a pass defense and OU didn't.

BASSooner

1/27/2006, 06:20 PM

I wonder why they didn't think of that.

Octavian

1/27/2006, 06:36 PM

I hate this topic but...

It wasn't so much what we did last year...it was what SUC did. 04 SUC (after struggling to beat several run of the mill pac10 teams) played the collective game of their lives. They were Kobe Bryant unconscious and they knew it. It was a perfect storm against us.

A year later, we saw all-world Reggie Bush make one of the dumbest plays of the year, trying to pitch the ball to some slow bastard 40 yards down the field. They dropped balls, Leinart made several early unforced errors, they missed blocking and defensive assignments..05 USC (again, a team that struggled several times to beat mediocre teams) looked human in the big game.

Sour grapes anyone?? Yeah, I hate this topic...

TheGodfather889

1/27/2006, 06:53 PM

I don't like this either but I have to say it.But the last couple of years (except this past year) I've said USC was overrated and once they played a great team they'd lose.I thought OU had that team to beat them.They didn't and Texas did.USC's offense was great but they never played a team when they won 34 straight that had a great pass defense.I think Matt Leinart is great,along with Bush,White,Jarrett,Smith,Mike Williams and Keary Colbert.But I think their numbers were inflated by the weak opponents and bad pass defenses they played (that includes Michigan and OU).

FlatheadSooner

1/27/2006, 07:38 PM

Big Red Ron

1/27/2006, 07:43 PM

The horror. The horror.
:eek:You have no idea. I wanted to miss the traffic, so I stayed untill the end. I don't blame them but it seemed like most Sooner fans left at halftime.

NickZeppelin

1/27/2006, 07:54 PM

OU's fumble by Bradley was at the 5 yard line on a punt he should have just stayed away from. Texas' fumble was closer to midfield. Also the game was scoreless at the time.

ProdigyDub

1/27/2006, 09:17 PM

05 USC (again, a team that struggled several times to beat mediocre teams) looked human in the big game.

Actually, 05 USC didn't really struggle to beat mediocre teams anymore than USC 04 did....

-05 USC struggled in the 1st half only against Holiday Bowl loser Oregon. The ended up winning by ~30. 04 USC struggled against Holiday Bowl loser Cal...they ended up winning by 6.

-05 USC struggled with Notre Dame away, the best team they played all regular season. 04 USC struggled with Va Tech--the best team they played all regular season--but beat them as well.

-05 USC struggled mightily against ASU in the 1st half. 04 USC struggled mightily against Oregon State all game...needing a clutch Bush punt return to win.

-05 USC struggled against a decent, Bowl game winner Fresno STate. 04 USC struggled against a decent, bowl game winner Oregon State.

So those are all a wash, let's say. But then 2004 USC ALSO only beat Stanford, 6 loss Stanford, by 3 points.

The fact that USC barely beat two 6 loss teams in 04 (UCLA and Stanford) is often overlooked by Sooners who want to annoit them as the most god-like football team of all time.

In all actuality, USC 04 struggled a LOT more during the regular season against mid-level teams than USC 05 did.

BASSooner

1/27/2006, 09:30 PM

Actually, 05 USC didn't really struggle to beat mediocre teams anymore than USC 04 did....

-05 USC struggled in the 1st half only against Holiday Bowl loser Oregon. The ended up winning by ~30. 04 USC struggled against Holiday Bowl loser Cal...they ended up winning by 6.

-05 USC struggled with Notre Dame away, the best team they played all regular season. 04 USC struggled with Va Tech--the best team they played all regular season--but beat them as well.

-05 USC struggled mightily against ASU in the 1st half. 04 USC struggled mightily against Oregon State all game...needing a clutch Bush punt return to win.

-05 USC struggled against a decent, Bowl game winner Fresno STate. 04 USC struggled against a decent, bowl game winner Oregon State.

So those are all a wash, let's say. But then 2004 USC ALSO only beat Stanford, 6 loss Stanford, by 3 points.

The fact that USC barely beat two 6 loss teams in 04 (UCLA and Stanford) is often overlooked by Sooners who want to annoit them as the most god-like football team of all time.

In all actuality, USC 04 struggled a LOT more during the regular season against mid-level teams than USC 05 did.
Sorry but I'm going to have to throw the BS card on that one.

NickZeppelin

1/27/2006, 09:38 PM

USC's D was not as good as it was in 04. But the offense was better. OU just didn't come to play. Texas it's really that simple.

FlatheadSooner

1/27/2006, 10:02 PM

Was it just me or did it seem like the first bad sign(s) for OU in the OB was that many of our receivers were slipping on the grass when trying make their route cuts?
:confused:

Ardmore_Sooner

1/27/2006, 10:41 PM

To compare the 04 USC team to the 05 USC team is like comparing checkers and chess, two completely different teams.

Soonerus

1/27/2006, 11:13 PM

Even a blind Horn will find a nut once in a while...

mojohornfan

1/28/2006, 12:40 PM

Maybe it was because Texas had a pass defense and OU didn't.

Thank you...Finally I see an admittance of some sort on this board. That was clearly the difference between the OB and RB. UT couldn't stop 'em, but we slowed 'em down enough to keep up with 'em.

mojohornfan

1/28/2006, 12:45 PM

To compare the 04 USC team to the 05 USC team is like comparing checkers and chess, two completely different teams.

I will admit that SC's defense was weaker this past year then when you guys played 'em, But their offense was better. In the end, defense wins. (i.e. 2000) In the end, Our defense was better than SC's and we won.

Desert Sapper

1/28/2006, 01:22 PM

I will admit that SC's defense was weaker this past year then when you guys played 'em, But their offense was better.

Their defense wasn't just weaker. They lost 4 from their starting front 7, and 2 of those 4 made the all-rookie team this year in the NFL. The backer that would have been covering down on VY is the same one you can watch next Sunday anchor the Seahawks D as the middle Backer. Lofa Tatupu. I think you underestimate how good SC's D was last year. VY would have been throat-punched on every play by either Patterson, Cody, or Tatupu.

The only thing better about their offense was experience. They lost Norm Chow to the NFL, and his weeks of preparation made their O perfect in the OB.

The '04 SC team was worlds better than this one, and I said it every dang time I saw an ESPN special comparing the '05 SC team to anybody. They hadn't won anything, and their D was significantly weaker. Significantly.

I will say that I am glad you people won, but only because I was sick of hearing about SC. Now I am happy, because I can hate you again. And it will be so sweet when we smack you down to reality in RRS this year.

Tuck Fexas

mojohornfan

1/28/2006, 01:44 PM

Their defense wasn't just weaker. They lost 4 from their starting front 7, and 2 of those 4 made the all-rookie team this year in the NFL. The backer that would have been covering down on VY is the same one you can watch next Sunday anchor the Seahawks D as the middle Backer. Lofa Tatupu. I think you underestimate how good SC's D was last year. VY would have been throat-punched on every play by either Patterson, Cody, or Tatupu.

The only thing better about their offense was experience. They lost Norm Chow to the NFL, and his weeks of preparation made their O perfect in the OB.

The '04 SC team was worlds better than this one, and I said it every dang time I saw an ESPN special comparing the '05 SC team to anybody. They hadn't won anything, and their D was significantly weaker. Significantly.

I will say that I am glad you people won, but only because I was sick of hearing about SC. Now I am happy, because I can hate you again. And it will be so sweet when we smack you down to reality in RRS this year.

Tuck Fexas

Good, I was pulling for u to win in the OB.
Sorry I did not explain to the degree of which I thought SC's defense was weaker. Does it really freakin matter?

As for next year, we will be in your shoes from this past year, although, I do think it will be a better game than most sooners think...a great matchup...mainly because our defense will be better than this past year.

And finally, this "tuck fexas" is embarassingly "6th grade" material. Sooners can do better than that, can't they?

TheGodfather889

1/28/2006, 01:57 PM

And finally, this "tuck fexas" is embarassingly "6th grade" material. Sooners can do better than that, can't they?

Sure we can.We can say **** Texas.:D

mojohornfan

1/28/2006, 02:39 PM

Sure we can.We can say **** Texas.:D

Thats actually a lot better

crawfish

1/28/2006, 03:17 PM

Personally, I think had USC capitalized on ut turnovers the same way they capitalized against ours, the game would've ended up similarly. Conversely, if they'd made bad plays against us early and kept the game close we would've gained confidence and potentially won the thing.

Morale is a tricky thing and can really alter the outcome of a game. I blame USC more for losing potential momentum than I give UT credit for coming back.

ProdigyDub

1/28/2006, 08:27 PM

Sorry but I'm going to have to throw the BS card on that one.

Everything I said is fact. If you look at the scores, there is absolutely no evidence that USC 05 struggled more with mediocre teams than USC 04 did.

Now, does that mean USC 05 is definitely a better team? No. Of course not. I'd say USC 04 was at least slightly better. But the statement "USC 04 was god-like and never struggled...whereas USC 05 almost lost game after game", is farrrrrrrr from being true.

You can throw out the "BS card" on whatever you want though. Given that I wrote up a well thought out post and backed up my ideas with evidence....and you followed it up with simply "BS", you're the one that comes off looking like a fool. Not really my problem.

FaninAma

1/29/2006, 03:30 PM

2 things kept USC from blowing UT out of the water.....USC's crappy defense and Vince Young.

The defense that took the field for USC in the 05 OB would have enabled USC to beat Texas by 17+ points.

BASSooner

1/29/2006, 04:04 PM

Everything I said is fact. If you look at the scores, there is absolutely no evidence that USC 05 struggled more with mediocre teams than USC 04 did.

Now, does that mean USC 05 is definitely a better team? No. Of course not. I'd say USC 04 was at least slightly better. But the statement "USC 04 was god-like and never struggled...whereas USC 05 almost lost game after game", is farrrrrrrr from being true.

You can throw out the "BS card" on whatever you want though. Given that I wrote up a well thought out post and backed up my ideas with evidence....and you followed it up with simply "BS", you're the one that comes off looking like a fool. Not really my problem.
have seen at least one of the defensive players from USC in the 04 year? He's already made over 100 tackles and 4 interceptions on the year and he is going to the pro bowl. Yeah..man their was no difference from last year...

Stoop Dawg

1/29/2006, 08:44 PM

You have no idea. I wanted to miss the traffic, so I stayed untill the end. I don't blame them but it seemed like most Sooner fans left at halftime.

I left when the OU players did. About mid-way through the 4th. Actually, now that I think about it, most of the OU players left long before that.

Stoop Dawg

1/29/2006, 08:44 PM

Mack recruited VY better than Stoops did:

Fixed.

rainiersooner

1/30/2006, 01:48 AM

:mad: The two picks thrown promptly after had nothing to do with it.

Or our secondary's inability to cover...that didn't help so much either.

Scott D

1/30/2006, 06:58 AM

I think that USC underestimated how much losing Cody, Patterson, Grootegood, and especially Tatupu would hurt their defense.

n8v_ndn

1/30/2006, 11:37 AM

I think that USC underestimated how much losing Cody, Patterson, Grootegood, and especially Tatupu would hurt their defense.

Yup...the '04 Condoms lost 2 Samoans that are now impact players for Super Bowl teams...as rookies.

Overall, the OB version of the SUC was stronger than the RB version.

I still can't believe USC--under the tutelage of Carroll's defensive genius--looked as bad as they did against the vaunted Zone Read. Granted, it was very difficult to contain this year, but putting a freshman in the position of reading and defensing it?? :eek:

Jmorales22

1/30/2006, 04:04 PM

I can't resist the urge to chime in here...seems like there's so much that needs clarification. I'll start with this:

Originally posted by ProdigyDub
05 USC struggled against a decent, Bowl game winner Fresno STate. 04 USC struggled against a decent, bowl game winner Oregon State.

And this:
Everything I said is fact

Fresno St lost its bowl game. In fact, it lost its last 4 games after that game at the colloseum.

But otherwise the argument that both 04 and 05 SC struggled against teams they shouldn't have is valid IMO. The difference is that in 05 nobody took them for granted in a big game because of those struggles. They remembered what happened last year. OU was cocky enough to think they would march in and pound SC, but everybody had far, far underestimated them. OU's pass defense was bad; it had been exposed earlier in the year. But also give SC credit for making one-handed catch after one-handed catch.

In summary, the reasons are:

1. Vince Young
2. SC defense not near the same caliber
3. Texas defense much better

1. Vy's performance in that game was nothing short of spectacular. At the end SC's powerhouse offense had broken down the proud Texas D and was scoring on every possession. The OL was opening up huge holes for 6 yard runs for Lendale White against Texas' all-america DTs. Was this the best offense of all time? I think so, but VY overcame all of that. You've got to give him credit for that. Even if SC could get pressure on him, he could stiff arm a guy until he got the ball off or just scramble. Jason White didn't have those options.

2. It's already been said but Patterson, Cody, Tutupu, Grottegoed, and some experienced Dbs make a huge difference. You could see by the numbers this year that SC missed those guys a lot. I thought we would dominate the line of scrimmage against SC, but it was the other way around. I must say that we started to see in that game how Davin Joseph can't pass block, and Wes Simms was overrated. Jammal Brown did dominate though, doing nothing to hurt his status as an Outland winner. Overall, Texas had better OL than OU 04.

3. It's not that OU 04 didn't have the talent, but we just couldn't figure it out most of the year in the secondary. I could blame Bo Pellini's complicated system and how he's never coached a secondary before, but I'll keep that to myself. Lance Mitchell also had a terrible game in the OB and most of the year wasn't that great. I felt like Latimer should have started the 04 season and the OB, but because of seniority Mitchell got the PT even though he wasn't the same player after his injury. Lastly, on the DL the loss of Dvoracek and the inability of Mo Dampeer to get off his but and work hard cost us against what turned out to be a dominant USC offensive line.

The last thing I want to say is that I think by the orange bowl the SC offense was as good as it was this year. They already had a whole season to grow by that time and learn each other's roles, and for players like Jarret to emerge.

tbl

1/30/2006, 04:28 PM

Let's just win a NC this year and we can forget all about this horrible, atrocious, painful, embarrassing memory.