NOLA Question Presented

[Okla-homey]

What can and should be done about this matter of ensuring displaced former NOLA residents do return home to the Big Easy? Specifically, should Federal dollars be spent to facilitate restoring the pre-Katrina racial status quo in New Orleans? If so, how should the money be spent? A massive Federally subsidized low-income housing project? Federal rent assistance? A Federal buy-out of half the white folks who have returned and a transfer of their property to displaced black folks? I want answers people and I'm counting on you!

Discuss.


PROVIDENCE, R.I.(AP) - The city of New Orleans could lose up to 80percent of its black population if people displaced by Hurricane Katrina are not able to return to damaged neighborhoods, according to an ongoing university study.

“This means that policy choices affecting who can return, to which neighborhoods, and with what forms of public and private assistance, will greatly affect the future character of the city,” according to the Brown University study, which is being funded by the National Science Foundation.

The lead researcher, sociology professor John Logan, determined that if the city’s returning population was limited to neighborhoods undamaged by Katrina, half of the white population would not return and 80 percent of the black population would not return.

“There’s very good reason for people to be concerned that the future New Orleans will not be a place for the people who used to live there, that there won’t be room in New Orleans for large segments of the population that used to call it home,” said Logan, who studies urban areas.

The study used maps from the Federal Emergency Management Agency that detailed flood and wind damage and compared them to data from the 2000 U.S. Census to determine who and what areas were affected.

It found the storm-damaged areas had been 75 percent black, compared to 46 percent black in undamaged areas of the city. It also found that 29 percent of the households in damaged areas lived below the poverty line, compared with 24 percent of households in undamaged areas.

More than half of those who lived in the city’s damaged neighborhoods were renters, the analysis found.

“The odds of living in a damaged area were clearly much greater for blacks, renters and poor people,” Logan said in a statement issued with the analysis. “In these respects, the most vulnerable residents turned out also to be at greatest risk.”

Elliott Stonecipher, a demographer and political analyst based in Shreveport, La., said the analysis gets to the heart of the debate over how to rebuild New Orleans. Racial tensions have been high with some worried that those in charge of the rebuilding will push black residents out of the city.

“For this storm to suddenly rip that away from them, that feeling is at the heart of this growing racial impasse,” Stonecipher said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[TUSooner]

I'll get back to you on that .....

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I think we should kill all white people and give the land back to Me "The only Indian left" I am 1/8th Choctaw and I want my damm land people for reall!!!!

[Okla-homey]

I'll get back to you on that .....

I think that is precisely the government's approach to this problem.;)

[yermom]

why does it matter that they lose 80% of their black population?

wasn't part of all their complaining that they couldn't get out of these crappy neighborhoods?

[Harry Beanbag]

why does it matter that they lose 80% of their black population?



Because it has to be a chocolate city. Duh. :)

[85Sooner]

I can't wait for Tortilla etoufee and Red or green chili creole.

No more fed money should be spent on this other than rebuiding the levees.

[Half a Hundred]

Is there a Good answer to this question that is not inherently racist in some way?

[OUHOMER]

Well, i know a bunch of mexicans that will move down there to even things up, they work cheap. and can make a house out of anything. they dont even want the government to know about it.

[Killerbees]

No federal money should be spent to "recreate" NOLA as it was. The only thing the fed should be spending money on is getting the city back up and running so that it can recover and rebuild itself.

[RacerX]

Er, no.

[jrsooner]

I don't know...our crime rate has increased since taking a lot of the refugees in last year. HISD gangs fighting with gangs from NO. They now have their own seperated schools to get the fights under control.

I could be talked into spending federal money to hire buses to take them all back.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Houston helped out, but it seems we got the short end of the stick in the long run.

[GottaHavePride]

No federal money should be spent to "recreate" NOLA as it was. The only thing the fed should be spending money on is getting the city back up and running so that it can recover and rebuild itself.
I would be ok with spending money to do three things:

1. Rebuild the city infrastructure
2. Offer to move people back (transportation) that want to go and need assistance.
3. Set up a temporary service to help place people into jobs in areas they have experience. Basically just a big centralized database where you fill out what kind of work you have training or experience for, and all the employers can search through the entries to re-populate their workforces. Hell, Monster.com could offer to do it for free in exchange for mad crazy free publicity.

[Sooner_Bob]

Well, i know a bunch of mexicans that will move down there to even things up, they work cheap. and can make a house out of anything. they dont even want the government to know about it.


They were already moving in to work on the clean up last October . . .

[Cam]

If you want to move back to a city that's located below the water level, so be it. Doesn't mean that I should have to pay for it.

[Sooner_Bob]

If you want to move back to a city that's located below the water level, so be it. Doesn't mean that I should have to pay for it.

Exactly . . . my uncle worked in the Gulf during the late 60's and said they should just bulldoze the decimated neighborhoods and build up the low spots and then build. If they want to rebuild.

[Frozen Sooner]

If you want to move back to a city that's located below the water level, so be it. Doesn't mean that I should have to pay for it.

Gotta have a port at New Orleans or the Midwest grain doesn't go out. Gotta have people to work the docks. People gotta live somewhere KINDA close to where they live.

[Sooner_Bob]

Gotta have a port at New Orleans or the Midwest grain doesn't go out. Gotta have people to work the docks. People gotta live somewhere KINDA close to where they live.

No arguements there . . . just get the levies fixed and try to build up the city first.

People will move in and live there no matter what. I'm sure there are some very cheap homes on the market down there. There were some places that weren't even touched and will make it just fine, while others had boats on top of the houses and cars all over the place. It was actually kind of erie.

[yermom]

the could just let the place flood and make the port a bit inland :D

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I am torn on this one, because of the evacuation, my city has had a great influx of NOLA people, many not savory characters and they have increased the city crime and murder rate...We even have people fighting from rival NOLA housing projects who are now living in the same apertment complexes. Plus my taxes are about to go up with all the police overtime and increased welfare spending...

That said...
Most of the people that would not return are renters, welfare people and criminals (not to say welfare = criminals, but to say that is where the criminals lived). They won't go back to NOLA unless they are paid to. How can you pay to return on your own, when you are spending your relief checks on Prada shoes, Gold bling and manicures...Anyway, they expect to return to NOLA to their Ward with new housing and the old rent expense. I don't think the Gub'ment should pay for their relocation or a subsidized rent (because they can't afford a true rent on a new construction). The people that wouldn't return aren't exactly the solid basis from which to build a tax base and a productive citizenry from. Perhaps the relocation out of NOLA will cause a few to get a backbone and get out of their old habits and perhaps a few criminals will be caught up in their nefarious deeds as they no longer have any safe havens or a police force that will look the other way and they will become forcibly removed from society.

There are a great many slum lords in NOLA that are probably going wahoo, wahoo! as they are out from under their decrepit rental and have a big replacement check in their hands...

[mrowl]

If you want to move back to a city that's located below the water level, so be it. Doesn't mean that I should have to pay for it.

agree.

Whatever port issues there may be, so what, there are hundreds of other ports along the gulf.

[Harry Beanbag]

agree.

Whatever port issues there may be, so what, there are hundreds of other ports along the gulf.


Not at the end of the Mississippi River.

[Frozen Sooner]

But none on the Mississippi-and there's no other place to build a deep-water port on the Mississippi.

The price of grain makes barge the ONLY economical way to ship it any kind of distance. It's got to get to the ocean somehow. We're blessed enough to have this big ol' river that runs all the way from the place grain is made to the ocean.

[BajaOklahoma]

We have 650+ students from areas hit by Katrina in our school district. Another 200 have left our district, many to states that were not affected by Katrina. Most of our parents have indicated they are staying here.

[mrowl]

Not at the end of the Mississippi River.

than keep the port there and build housing further up river where it is ABOVE sea level.

[Okla-homey]

But why couldn't they build new flood and hurricane proof port facilities farther up river, say just above Kenner someplace, then just make sure the shipping channel is kept open downriver of that point?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/989/louisiana5ax.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Frozen Sooner]

At this point, I have to rely on the "people who know more about it than me have assured me that the port facilities can't be located further upriver than they are argument."

I came to the understanding with myself a while ago that I cannot know everything about everything, and that sometimes I just have to take the word of someone who knows more than I do about a subject. ;)

[Okla-homey]

At this point, I have to rely on the "people who know more about it than me have assured me that the port facilities can't be located further upriver than they are argument."

I came to the understanding with myself a while ago that I cannot know everything about everything, and that sometimes I just have to take the word of someone who knows more than I do about a subject. ;)

I guess its a good thing Columbus, the Wright Brothers and Thomas Edison didn't hold that view. ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Ah, but that's the thing-Columbus, the Wright Brothers, and Thomas Edison DID know more about their subjects than the average person because they spent a lot of time studying their particular field.

I am not an expert on shipping lanes or logistics, so I take the word of people who are when it comes to shipping lanes. If I had a particular view about shipping lanes or logistics that was contrary to the view expressed by those who HAVE studied it, I would go ahead and study the issue until I could either intelligently debate with the other experts or I would just go out and DO it.

But it's not like Columbus had no knowledge of cartography-in fact, he was an expert cartographer from his stints on Genoan and Portugeuse trading ships. It's not like Thomas Edison didn't have significant scientific knowledge, nor is it like the Wright Brothers didn't have any knowledge of aeronautics.

[BajaOklahoma]

Homey, would it be cheaper to buy out all of the homeowners (standing or not) or to rebuild? Leave only the port facilities in place if you do the buyout.
And what is it the right thing to do? One of our NO parents committed suicide in November down there. Though their house was standing, with minimal damage to first floor, their livelyhood was gone. Each of the parents had a medical practice in NO - now there are no patients, no office, no hospital, no income, but plenty of debts. How overwhelming. How sad.

[SoonerInFla]

It will be very interesting to see how this all shapes up. I work in South Louisianna at the mouth of the Mississippi River for the Pilots that run the ships up and down the river. I have no idea what will happen as far as getting the people relocated back into the NO area but I can assure you that the shipping industry on the River is up and running. Actually, we have been pretty much back to normal traffic for months now. One of the biggest challenges at this end has been the loss of PilotTown, which was completely destroyed leading to some logistical problems which will have to be worked out in court.

As far as the " Deep Water Port " discussion goes, it would not be feesible to keep the River deep enough for deep draft ships above New Orleans. This would be too costly in dredging operations. I'm really not even sure if it is possible. Just about anything that comes or goes above New Orleans is moved by barge or what we call light draft ships.

[Cam]

Gotta have a port at New Orleans or the Midwest grain doesn't go out. Gotta have people to work the docks. People gotta live somewhere KINDA close to where they live.
Then let the companies who utilize the port pay for the workers living quarters. Don't force somebody who has no desire to to to NOLA again pay to rebuild it under sea level. A little common sense goes a long way when you're talking about spending Billions of dollars of other peoples money.

[Frozen Sooner]

Then let the companies who utilize the port pay for the workers living quarters. Don't force somebody who has no desire to to to NOLA again pay to rebuild it under sea level. A little common sense goes a long way when you're talking about spending Billions of dollars of other peoples money.

You're going to pay for it one way or another, man.

I assume you eat bread now and then? Use gas?

[Stoop Dawg]

Is there a Good answer to this question that is not inherently racist in some way?

No, because the question itself is inherently racist.

Why did the author only mention whites and blacks? Why does he/she hate hispanics?

[Stoop Dawg]

I guess its a good thing Columbus, the Wright Brothers and Thomas Edison didn't hold that view. ;)

Thomas Edison knew everything about everything?

[Scott D]

Those of you who say that federal money shouldn't be involved I have one question for you. What about the federal money that was originally earmarked for the levees for the past decade that never made it there and in fact more than once got diverted? Had that money ever been spent in the way it was originally intended, we never would have had this problem nor this discussion.

[TUSooner]

Disasters change things; that's why they are disasters. Here's my honest gut feeling: Anybody who wants to come back to work and rebuild should at least be allowed to do so. There is a labor shortage here. If anyone's property is "taken" in order to create flood barriers or "flood absorption zones" (for lack of a better term), should be compensated for the taking. (OK, that's complicated and I'll dodge it.)
People who want to come back to resume a parasitical existence or to reside permanently in a FEMA trailerville should not be encouraged or paid to do so. 99% of the people here don't really care what color the returning people are; but nobody, black or white, wants the parasites back. (FWIW, my middle-class neighborhood is at least 50% African-American.)
Question: Why do the Mexicans have no trouble getting in here to work, while some former residents of the city sit paralyzed and whining at the Government? (OK, part of that answer is that the Mexicans are mostly young adult men who didn't have to bring their families with them.) But I guess the bottom line I'm getting at is this - When you rely on the Government to take care of you, you take your chances. There is no substitute for being ready willing and able to work.
I know that's not a very thoughtful answer, but I guess I just don't see much point in spending a gob of money just to restore a crappy pre-Katrina situation.
End of ramble....

[TUSooner]

Addendum: I'm deeply cynical these days over the narcississtic and useless romanticizing over New Orleans by many life-long residents and talking heads. But it serves the Nation to rebuild levves and other critical infrastructure to preserve the City as a crucial port and, yes, as a place with unique historical value. That does not equate to spending money to restore pre-K levels of poverty, crime, ignorance, lassitude, and squalor in the name of "racial justice."

[Cam]

You're going to pay for it one way or another, man.

I assume you eat bread now and then? Use gas?
At least I would get something back from my money. If/when they do rebuild NO, I'll get not one damn thing from my investment.

[Okla-homey]

Addendum: I'm deeply cynical these days over the narcississtic and useless romanticizing over New Orleans by many life-long residents and talking heads. But it serves the Nation to rebuild levees and other critical infrastructure to preserve the City as a crucial port and, yes, as a place with unique historical value. That does not equate to spending money to restore pre-K levels of poverty, crime, ignorance, lassitude, and squalor in the name of "racial justice."

In a single paragraph, you have cogently captured my sentiments exactly. Hopefully, cool rational heads in Congress will intervene to prevent billions of federal dollars to be thus wasted.

Afterall, even career GOP politicians can be emboldened to do the right thing when there is no fear of alienating a class of folks. Further, they need not fear any political fallout in so doing since the impoverished evacuees and their advocates have already made it quite clear they believe the GOP and GWB are the debbil. IOW, they have nothing to lose by doing the right thing.;)

I still say....TUSooner for Mayor.

[Cam]

Those of you who say that federal money shouldn't be involved I have one question for you. What about the federal money that was originally earmarked for the levees for the past decade that never made it there and in fact more than once got diverted? Had that money ever been spent in the way it was originally intended, we never would have had this problem nor this discussion.
I've been trying to think of a good answer for this, but sadly I don't think I have one.

IMO, the problem is that the ones who would investigate why the money didn't get to where it was earmarded are the same ones who have diverted it. We'll never see a congressional committee asking where the money went. They all know where it went cause they voted for it to go to other places.

The only thing I can think of is to hold those responsible more accountable.

Then again, I could be very much off base and the money was diverted at a local level. If that's the case, don't let the locals control it once the program's been funded.

[Scott D]

I've been trying to think of a good answer for this, but sadly I don't think I have one.

IMO, the problem is that the ones who would investigate why the money didn't get to where it was earmarded are the same ones who have diverted it. We'll never see a congressional committee asking where the money went. They all know where it went cause they voted for it to go to other places.

The only thing I can think of is to hold those responsible more accountable.

Then again, I could be very much off base and the money was diverted at a local level. If that's the case, don't let the locals control it once the program's been funded.

your view is pretty much similar to mine, except I'd likely have everyone in congress in jail for crimes against the country. :)