Good Morning...Another of Your Rights is Strengthened.

[Okla-homey]

I know a lot of you wish we had a tax on polls around here sometimes, but ths is different...

January 23, 1964: the Poll Tax goes down in flames

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8616/zzzz21012cs5og.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

On this day, Americans waved good-bye to the poll tax, as the Twenty-Fourth Amendment to the Constitution was ratified by the South Dakota legislature, becoming the law of the land. We preety much take for granted that you can't be charged for exercising your right to vote, but it wasn't always that way.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4403/zzzzz0752w5004in.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Poll taxes had been part of voting in America in many places for a very long time. This cartoon is from the mid-nineteenth century.

Payment of the tax stood as a potent prerequisite, and sometimes outright barrier, to voting in national elections. And, for the Southern Democrats who designed and helped pass the tax in a number of Southern states during the 1880s and 1890s, this was precisely the point: the poll tax was a blunt tool for barring poverty-stricken folks from participating in the electoral process.

As such, the tax was also a means for stemming the rise of the Populist Party, which had used a racially mixed coalition of poor and lower class voters to gain a place on the national stage. Attempts to roll back the poll tax were generally blocked in the Senate. However, in 1949, Senator Spessard L. Holland of Florida took up the cause of killing the tax forever via a constitutional amendment.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3298/zzzz21116cs6mk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Even Dr Suess weighed in against the poll tax.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9653/zzzzspessardholland0123wa1dg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Senator Spessard Holland of Florida. He broke the pro-Poll Tax Democrat filibuster in the Senate


Text of the 24th Amendment

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation

When the Senate finally passed the Twenty-Fourth Amendment in 1962, the poll tax remained in effect in five Southern states: Virginia, texass, Mississippi, Arkansas and Alabama. On this day in 1964, it was no longer legal anywhere.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5103/zzzz1949polltaxreceipt8cl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Before ratification of the 24th amendment, in texass, you either brought a poll tax receipt like this to the polls, or you didn't get to vote.

Perhaps interestingly, modern civil and voting rights groups tend to equate requiring voters to present a photo ID at polling places in order to fight voting fraud is too similar to the constitutionally banned poll tax. They argue that since poor folks are less likely to have an ID with a photo such as a drivers license, requiring them to show a photo ID is inherently prejudiced against poor voters.

On the other hand, anti-voting fraud groups feel that asking a person to show a photo ID is simply a way to make sure the person trying to vote is who he claims to be and is not prejudiced, just prudent. What do you think?

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2899/insane7zo8ms.jpg

[12]

Welfare recipients should be issued a welfare i.d., complete with photo.

Wouldn't that take care of at least some of the problem?

I had no idea the poll tax lasted so long. Hard to imagine people paying for what so many are too lazy to do for free now.

[jk the sooner fan]

poll tax - bad idea

poll test - something to reconsider ;)

[jeremy885]

You're required to have an id to open a bank account, cash a check, get a job, buy smokes or beer, enroll in a school, and even to see a rated R movie (if they ask for it). Why should voting be any different?

[Okla-homey]

You're required to have an id to open a bank account, cash a check, get a job, buy smokes or beer, enroll in a school, and even to see a rated R movie (if they ask for it). Why should voting be any different?

Yep, it makes sense to me too, but according to foes of such voter ID requirements, apparently there are significant numbers of qualified voters who don't possess any photo ID whatsoever. Who knew?

[jeremy885]

Yep, it makes sense to me too, but according to foes of such voter ID requirements, apparently there are significant numbers of qualified voters who don't possess any photo ID whatsoever. Who knew?


Don't you also get a voter's registration card when you sign up to vote? Can't they put a picture on that?

[Okla-homey]

Don't you also get a voter's registration card when you sign up to vote? Can't they put a picture on that?

Not everywhere. In Alabama, even today, all you get after you register is a postcard telling you the location of your polling place. Then, on 'Lection Day when you showed up to vote, some sweet old blue-hair would ask you your name, you would tell her, and she'd check your name off her compooter print-out listing. No photo ID req'd. Instead, they accept a light bill, bank statement -- really anything with your name and address on it.
They will also allow a voter known to them (having presented the above light bill,) to "vouch" for a voter who can't come up with anything on paper with his name and address printed on it. Seriously.

[Harry Beanbag]

Yep, it makes sense to me too, but according to foes of such voter ID requirements, apparently there are significant numbers of qualified voters who don't possess any photo ID whatsoever. Who knew?


Like illegal aliens. Our fantastic governor thinks illegal aliens are being discriminated against because they aren't allowed to vote....yet. She's working on it.

[jeremy885]

Like illegal aliens. Our fantastic governor thinks illegal aliens are being discriminated against because they aren't allowed to vote....yet. She's working on it.

I thought your state was suing the Feds for all of the expenses that the state was paying for the illegals. Now they want to give them the right to vote?

[SoonerInKCMO]

Not everywhere. In Alabama, even today, all you get after you register is a postcard telling you the location of your polling place. Then, on 'Lection Day when you showed up to vote, some sweet old blue-hair would ask you your name, you would tell her, and she'd check your name off her compooter print-out listing. No photo ID req'd. Instead, they accept a light bill, bank statement -- really anything with your name and address on it.
They will also allow a voter known to them (having presented the above light bill,) to "vouch" for a voter who can't come up with anything on paper with his name and address printed on it. Seriously.

If you call your electric bill a 'light bill' ... you might be a f'in hillbilly. :D

[Harry Beanbag]

I thought your state was suing the Feds for all of the expenses that the state was paying for the illegals. Now they want to give them the right to vote?


Yeah, now she's campaigning for reelection so she's taking a tough stand against illegals. :rolleyes:

[Okla-homey]

If you call your electric bill a 'light bill' ... you might be a f'in hillbilly. :D

I'm old school that way. Fewer syllables too.;)

[soonerscuba]

We need a national ID, bad.

[mdklatt]

We need a national ID, bad.

Your papers do not appear to be in order, comrade.

[FaninAma]

So every stupid, ignorant reub who is registered by a political party's turnout-the-vote machine should be able to vote?

I don't think the Founding Fathers agreed with that sentiment.

[soonerscuba]

So every stupid, ignorant reub who is registered by a political party's turnout-the-vote machine should be able to vote?

I don't think the Founding Fathers agreed with that sentiment.

Unless you are an independent.

So you favor a white, land-holding males system?

[FaninAma]

Unless you are an independent.

So you favor a white, land-holding males system?

Didn't take you long to play both the race and elitist cards, did it?

No, but I actually would not mind a semi-informed electorate that had some basic understanding of how our system of government and economics works.

As long as you have pandering politicians and an ever increasingly ignorant electorate the results will continue the same as they have been for the past 50 years.....vote for the candidate who promises you the biggest portion of the public treasury. Forget about future generations. Forget about self-responsibility.

Our kids and grandkids will drown in a sea of red ink and their liberty will be threatened by the economic calamity caused by the greediness of the last 3 generations of Americans.

[soonerscuba]

Didn't take you long to play both the race and elitist cards, did it?

No, but I actually would not mind a semi-informed electorate that had some basic understanding of how our system of government and economics works.

As long as you have pandering politicians and an ever increasingly ignorant electorate the results will continue the same as they have been for the past 50 years.....vote for the candidate who promises you the biggest portion of the public treasury. Forget about future generations. Forget about self-responsibility.

Our kids and grandkids will drown in a sea of red ink and their liberty will be threatened by the economic calamity caused by the greediness of the last 3 generations of Americans.

So it is a racist and elitist when I point out a historically accurate fact. Seriously, answer me wise one, to whom did the founders extend the right to vote? I can assure you, regardless of politics, if we allowed only those with a working understanding of government to vote, there would be a very limited number of people voting. So basically I pull an elitist card when I suggest that the founder's were wrong in regards to the voting public (keep in mind that uppity folks like me who feel minorities should vote have the Constitution on our side), but yet it is in no one way elitist when you suggest that the voting public should be limited by aptitude. That makes tons of sense.

Second, your party is the one engaged in deficit spending. Yet, somehow, someway you will keep justifying it to yourself that you are right on the economics front, and one day that deficit will magically go away, I would bank on the return of Jesus as the cause if I were you, because clearly your policy isn't getting it done.

[yermom]

if you don't understand the process why should you be allowed to affect it?

back to the "light bill" thing...

do you not have to present an ID to register either? i think i'll go steal some mail in some other counties and register a few times :D

[FaninAma]

So it is a racist and elitist when I point out a historically accurate fact. Seriously, answer me wise one, to whom did the founders extend the right to vote? I can assure you, regardless of politics, if we allowed only those with a working understanding of government to vote, there would be a very limited number of people voting. So basically I pull an elitist card when I suggest that the founder's were wrong in regards to the voting public (keep in mind that uppity folks like me who feel minorities should vote have the Constitution on our side), but yet it is in no one way elitist when you suggest that the voting public should be limited by aptitude. That makes tons of sense.

Second, your party is the one engaged in deficit spending. Yet, somehow, someway you will keep justifying it to yourself that you are right on the economics front, and one day that deficit will magically go away, I would bank on the return of Jesus as the cause if I were you, because clearly your policy isn't getting it done.

As with any decision making system when you put crap in you get crap out.

Have you ever watched the Late Night Show "Man on the Street Interviews'?

Check the percentage of the federal budget. You'll find that discretionary entitlement programs account for the largest share of the budget even with the larger military budget under Bush. Which party is responsible for most of the entitlement programs?(Does FDR and LBJ ring a bell?) Also, tell me why tax revenues are going up and the deficit is still increasing? Could it be that federal government spending keeps increasing? Nah, couldn't be.

And I don't have a "party". I vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

And if you weren't trying to play the race, elitist and sex card card why did you use the terms "male, white, land holders". You could have replaced those terms with the term "educated" and you would have been spot on.

The day that financing the interest on the national debt becomes the biggest single budget item is the day we are finished as a nation.

[soonerscuba]

if you don't understand the process why should you be allowed to affect it?

Because it is funny. And where should it stop and start as far as some sort of test? Administrative history, civics history, do we ask which policy makers changed what arena, what about bias, what about the fact that the way government actually works and the way we are taught it works in school are two entirely different things, do we include the 4th estate, do we focus on historical analysis, do non-governmental policy forces get included? The list of why poll-testing is a bad idea is pretty much writes itself, in my opinion.

[yermom]

i'd settle for 3rd grade (English) reading comprehension ;)

[mdklatt]

i'd settle for 3rd grade (English) spelling ability ;)

Why do you hate DoLEMite?

[soonerscuba]

And if you weren't trying to play the race, elitist and sex card card why did you use the terms "male, white, land holders". You could have replaced those terms with the term "educated" and you would have been spot on.

Of course I realize that government spending has maintained, or elevated slightly, Republicans typically prefer to borrow the money and spend it, Democrats typically tax for the money and spend it. One is a bad idea, the other is a terrible idea, it just depends on who you ask.

You do realize that the United States didn't grant unverisal sufferage until 1920. But, I assume educated women could vote, right? Surely you are 100% right. Go ahead pull the Jersey card on me, I know you want to. I guess I'm just a sexist for suggesting that sufferage was not extended until 1920, that is just plain crazy talk.

[yermom]

Why do you hate DoLEMite?

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/search.php?searchid=157149

[mdklatt]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/search.php?searchid=157149

:D

[Widescreen]

You people are missing the most important point of this topic. I can't believe that the Democrats would resort to telling people they'd be forced to marry colored wimin if they didn't kill the 24th amendment. :eek: