Can someone explain to me why "Brokeback Mountain"... [Archive]

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Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 06:50 PM

Is getting all the pub and recognition while "Passion of Christ" was completely dissmissed?

I admit, I haven't seen Brokeback but I did see The Passion and I thought Passion was very well produced and quite interesting.

picasso

1/21/2006, 07:01 PM

flaming fairies across the prairie.

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:05 PM

And did I mention that The Passion made like 10X the money that Brokeback made?

Seriously, who runs Hollywood, the gays or the Jews? Perhaps both? Are Jewish people more likely to be gay (per capita) or just more tolerant?

Mjcpr

1/21/2006, 07:07 PM

Seriously, who runs Hollywood, the gays or the Jews? Perhaps both? Are Jewish people more likely to be gay (per capita) or just more tolerant?

Don't forget the nigras.

:rolleyes:

XingTheRubicon

1/21/2006, 07:09 PM

Mjcpr

1/21/2006, 07:11 PM

They're all under one tent for sure....

Liberals

What about the nigras?

picasso

1/21/2006, 07:12 PM

actually we run Hollywood by spending money on their often badly produced product.

Widescreen

1/21/2006, 07:12 PM

What about the nigras?
And the transvestites. They're the real power brokers in Hollywood. Everyone knows that.

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:14 PM

actually we run Hollywood by spending money on their often badly produced product.Good point. Dixie Chicks anyone?

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:15 PM

What about the nigras?What's a nigra?

Edit

Eeeeuuu, I get it. Uhm well, do they own anything? :D

BTW, I'm from LA and know of what I speak.

Mjcpr

1/21/2006, 07:16 PM

What's a nigra?

Seriously?

Jimminy Crimson

1/21/2006, 07:18 PM

What's a nigra?

It's over the counter Viagra, I think. :cool:

picasso

1/21/2006, 07:21 PM

What about the nigras?
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000059TGC.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
sorry, there's already been a gay black cowboy movie made.

SoonerInKCMO

1/21/2006, 07:22 PM

"Passion" was dismissed? :confused:

I remember hearing about it ad nauseum for months.

silverwheels

1/21/2006, 07:24 PM

"Passion" was dismissed? :confused:

I remember hearing about it ad nauseum for months.

I know. The hype was so overwhelming that I didn't even bother to see it. I still haven't.

picasso

1/21/2006, 07:25 PM

"Passion" was dismissed? :confused:

I remember hearing about it ad nauseum for months.
yeah but there's quite a difference in the type of "press" both received.

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:28 PM

"Passion" was dismissed? :confused:

I remember hearing about it ad nauseum for months.It wasn't nominated for any "major" awards and was a very good movie. I'm not even religious (do a search in the SO for me ;) for proof). I have however studied film and film production and the Passion was never recognized for it's brilliant cinematography and edgy story line.

Just sayin...

GottaHavePride

1/21/2006, 07:29 PM

Award recognition for movies has absolutely nothing to do with how much money a film makes - the films are nominated for awards by people in the business of making movies, not the general public. The Passion isn't getting any Golden Globe or Oscar attention because it didn't do anything ground-breaking or exceptional as far as how the movie was made. The acting was good, but not outstandingly so. the quality of production was good, but there were no huge technological innovations like you see out of the giant-budget movies. The story was well written, but there wasn't anything unexpected there, either a new way of telling a story (like, say, Syriana, Constant Gardener, History of Violence) or a new twist on an old type of story (such as gay cowboys).

I think the point is that The Passion, while well-made, was basicaly just re-covering ground that has already been explored rather than doing something new and unusual. that doesn't mean you have to agree, but that's what the people in Hollywood are thinking. Also remember, the Oscars (when they're awarded) aren't awarded based on the opinions of the moviegoing public, they're voted on by people in the business and they may have very different reasons for their votes than you might have.

Flagstaffsooner

1/21/2006, 07:32 PM

What's a nigra?

http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes5/blazingsad74.jpeg

Don't shoot the ******.

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:32 PM

I know. The hype was so overwhelming that I didn't even bother to see it. I still haven't.Oh man, you have to see it. Like everyone should see "The Wall" at least once. It was an awsome movie. It didn't make me any more or less likely to believe in the Bible as a litteral document but a good watch to be sure.

SoonerInKCMO

1/21/2006, 07:32 PM

It wasn't nominated for any "major" awards and was a very good movie. I'm not even religious (do a search in the SO for me ;) for proof). I have however studied film and film production and the Passion was never recognized for it's brilliant cinematography and edgy story line.

Just sayin...

I don't know about 'edgy' ... it's not like we all haven't heard the story before. ;)

picasso

1/21/2006, 07:33 PM

Mjcpr

1/21/2006, 07:33 PM

silverwheels

1/21/2006, 07:33 PM

SoonerInKCMO

1/21/2006, 07:35 PM

actually, I would argue that Mel Gibson's version was quite different than any I've ever seen depicting that particular story. and the fact that it didn't have super spectacular special effects made it that much better.

How so? I mean, beyond showing more of the violence than other depictions have. I agree with you on the lack of special effects - gimme gritty and real over computer-generated crapola any day.

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:35 PM

The story was well written, but there wasn't anything unexpected there, either a new way of telling a story (like, say, Syriana, Constant Gardener, History of Violence) or a new twist on an old type of story (such as gay cowboys).

I gotta disagree. The Passion put the blame for Jesus' death squarely on the Jews rather than the Romans that we were all taught in Sunday School. And convincingly so, at least enough to make me do a little research for my self.

That's really my point here, Hollywood likes, "a new twist on an old type of story (such as gay cowboys)." as long as it's something they are okay with.

GottaHavePride

1/21/2006, 07:38 PM

Frozen Sooner

1/21/2006, 07:40 PM

The Passion got much more hype than did Brokeback Mountain. I'm pretty sure it also played on a hell of a lot more screens.

And while I haven't seen Passion of the Christ, I can imagine that if it had such a blatantly racist message as "The Jews are responsible for Christ's death" then that might cause it some problems at awards time. I was always under the impression that Christian orthodoxy claims that EVERYONE who doesn't live a godly life is responsible for Christ's death.

picasso

1/21/2006, 07:41 PM

How so? I mean, beyond showing more of the violence than other depictions have. I agree with you on the lack of special effects - gimme gritty and real over computer-generated crapola any day.
sorry, but I'm not subscriber into the overly produced computer generated bullcrap these days. some of it is good and close, some of it is just as bad as old timey stuff.
I'm sure we're reaching the day when once an actor has been digitized, his services shant be needed anymore.:)

SoonerInKCMO

1/21/2006, 07:42 PM

I gotta disagree. The Passion put the blame for Jesus' death squarely on the Jews rather than the Romans that we were all taught in Sunday School.

Oh, I see where you're coming from. I guess since I never went to Sunday School, I figured that the majority of blame was usually placed on Jesus' fellow Jews.

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:43 PM

Yeah, but that's probably more of a minor twist. And Christianity isn't really a taboo subject in our society. They're probably thinking it takes a lot more guts to explore a gay cowboy movie in homophobic America than it does to re-tell the crucifixion of Christ in an 80% Christian country.That pretty well gets to my point. "They" run and decide what movie is good or even gets produced. The only reason we heard so much complaints about the Passion is because Mel Gibson paid for and marketed that movie without them and then they were blackballed. Almost the exact reverse situation that occured in the 30'-50's to Jews in Hollywood with any Communist connections (real or percieved).

Neither is right but this does underline the point that we DO NOT run Hollywood, we only think we do.

SoonerInKCMO

1/21/2006, 07:44 PM

I'm sure we're reaching the day when once an actor has been digitized, his services shant be needed anymore.:)

If that gets rid of Keanu Reeves, I'm all for it. :texan:

GottaHavePride

1/21/2006, 07:44 PM

I'm sure we're reaching the day when once an actor has been digitized, his services shant be needed anymore.:)

Actually, they'll probably go the Gollum/Kong route. Overlay the character model on the movements of an actor. That way you get the look you want (without the expense of trying to figure out how to build makeup and costume) with the flexibility of human control.

Mjcpr

1/21/2006, 07:45 PM

Is there any way we can turn this into a religious thread?

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 07:46 PM

Oh, I see where you're coming from. I guess since I never went to Sunday School, I figured that the majority of blame was usually placed on Jesus' fellow Jews.Well, I was taught that the Roman's were responsible. Pilot? Anyway, the Romans had the ultimate authority but the whole process was a political move and that's what made this movie interesting to me.

GottaHavePride

1/21/2006, 07:47 PM

Neither is right but this does underline the point that we DO NOT run Hollywood, we only think we do.

Heh. Exactly. The people with the money that own the studios run Hollywood, and they can put out whatever the heck they want. The only way we have any say in the matter is because, generally, they're in it to make money.

royalfan5

1/21/2006, 07:50 PM

picasso

1/21/2006, 07:51 PM

Heh. Exactly. The people with the money that own the studios run Hollywood, and they can put out whatever the heck they want. The only way we have any say in the matter is because, generally, they're in it to make money.
we stupid consumers have the juice in this matter. if we don't like an actor or movie, we won't go see it.
same way in music, you think if we all had taste in music that Ashlee Simpson would've ever made it?
if we don't buy it or go see it, they'll get rid of it. regardless of agenda.

royalfan5

1/21/2006, 07:54 PM

we stupid consumers have the juice in this matter. if we don't like an actor or movie, we won't go see it.
same way in music, you think if we all had taste in music that Ashlee Simpson would've ever made it?
if we don't buy it or go see it, they'll get rid of it. regardless of agenda.
Exactly, that's why I refuse to see any movies where it's dependent on him carrying it. I don't find him funny. Based on his recent track record, more and more people are agreeing with me, and hopefully this will lead to less Will Ferrell movies.

SoonerInKCMO

1/21/2006, 07:55 PM

we stupid consumers have the juice in this matter. if we don't like an actor or movie, we won't go see it.
same way in music, you think if we all had taste in music that Ashlee Simpson would've ever made it?
if we don't buy it or go see it, they'll get rid of it. regardless of agenda.

Sadly, it only takes 1 or 2% of the population buying a CD or going to a movie to make it very successful. And there're a lot of no taste having people out there. :(

Mjcpr

1/21/2006, 07:55 PM

Exactly, that's why I refuse to see any movies where it's dependent on him carrying it. I don't find him funny. Based on his recent track record, more and more people are agreeing with me, and hopefully this will lead to less Will Ferrell movies.

:confused:

Him who?

GottaHavePride

1/21/2006, 07:56 PM

http://www.youhavebadtasteinmusic.com/

and I thought Will Ferrell was freaking AWESOME in The Producers.

SoonerInKCMO

1/21/2006, 07:58 PM

http://www.youhavebadtasteinmusic.com/

That guy's a dork. And he needs to stop hatin' on my girl Christina. :mad:

GottaHavePride

1/21/2006, 08:00 PM

That guy's a genius. And he needs to keep hatin' on that skanky ho-bag Christina.

Fixed. ;)

royalfan5

1/21/2006, 08:01 PM

:confused:

Him who?
I could have swore I put Will Ferrel in the first sentance, either way, I don't like Will Ferrell.

StoopTroup

1/21/2006, 08:07 PM

http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/ferrell_will.jpg

You may not like Will...but he has done some pretty funny stuff.

royalfan5

1/21/2006, 08:10 PM

http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/ferrell_will.jpg

You may not like Will...but he has done some pretty funny stuff.
just not enough to justfy making him the star of a movie, imo. At least he is better than Chris Kattan and Jim Breurer.

StoopTroup

1/21/2006, 08:15 PM

He definitely is no Jim Carrey.

http://malestars.codserver.com/cnt/jim_carrey/photos/9.jpg

afs

1/21/2006, 08:20 PM

if you are over the age of 20, the only accecptable reason for you to be here is if you are a chaperone.

Big Red Ron

1/21/2006, 08:38 PM

[Thread officially Jacked]

I sorta miss the SO. Maybe I'll make a comback. :D

Okieflyer

1/21/2006, 08:41 PM

I think Hollywood hates sheep.

Oh and normal people.

Blue

1/22/2006, 12:56 AM

I gotta disagree. The Passion put the blame for Jesus' death squarely on the Jews rather than the Romans that we were all taught in Sunday School. And convincingly so, at least enough to make me do a little research for my self.

That's completely false. The Passion was Mels interpretation of scripture. Some, not all, Jews wanted him dead. Mainly the Pharisees (False prophets of the church). Pilot, "washed his hands" of the matter, in doing so led to the death of Christ.

But like Royalfan says, we all are responsible. Jesus died for every persons sins and inequities.

TheHumanAlphabet

1/22/2006, 01:28 AM

Passion was dismissed because the Liberal Hollywood elite want nothing to do with religion, so they said Passion was a "foreign" movie because it was in Aramiac and Greek, not English. "Foreign" films are not allowed to compete for the Hollywood awards.

Brokedick is against the religious right and is pro-liberal. So it is getting lots of pub and will win the Oscars. Only the Hollywood elite and New York media cares about this. Hollywood is trying to show that us in fly over country are f'ing hillbillies that don't know anything, let alone able to run a country, i.e. its Bush's fault.

BTW, Harry Bellafonte has lost his mind and should be institutionalized. That guy must be smoking some bad shi'ite or is just plan certifiable...

SCOUT

1/22/2006, 01:55 AM

Harry Bellafonte has indeed gone off the reservation.

I think The Passion received more publicity but it was mostly negative/controversial. The MSM said Gibson blamed the Jews, was too violent, not accurate to the scriptures etc.

Brokeback seems to be all positive.

It just seems to me that controversial subjects should be equally treated and not tinged with the reporters preference.

TheHumanAlphabet

1/22/2006, 02:47 AM

Harry Bellafonte has indeed gone off the reservation.

It just seems to me that controversial subjects should be equally treated and not tinged with the reporters preference.

I concur...

While I certainly want controversial films made to provoke thought. The disparity one gets over another from the media is wrong. Basically, what I gather from the Passion/Brokedick debate Religion = bad, liberal + tolerance = good. What happened to Conservative + tolerance = good?

BoogercountySooner

1/22/2006, 06:56 AM

Passion of Christ was an awesome movie, however I feel I feel that it's downfall was the language that was spoken and trying to read the subtitles. Also anything to do with religion in Hollywood probably won't get a big reception.

oumartin

1/22/2006, 08:12 AM

Whats amazing is how in the world does Brokeback get this many threads and replies in the S.O.
Its something that should be talked about only on Whorn boards.

1/22/2006, 08:29 AM

I think The Passion received more publicity but it was mostly negative/controversial. The MSM said (The Passion of the Christ) was too violent...

I'm trying to figure out which part of execution by torture and driving nails through one's hands and feet would not be construed as "violent."

I do agree that the meat-slinging was a bit much. I think he had already made his point without the hamburger scene.

As for the cowoy movie... eh... good for them. A film winning awards is a very trivial thing.

And no, I do not hate.

1/22/2006, 08:29 AM

I think The Passion received more publicity but it was mostly negative/controversial. The MSM said (The Passion of the Christ) was too violent...

I'm trying to figure out which part of execution by torture and driving nails through one's hands and feet would not be construed as "violent."

I do agree that the meat-slinging was a bit much. I think Gibson had already made his point without the hamburger scene.

As for the cowoy movie... eh... good for the film makers. A film winning awards is a very trivial thing.

And no, I do not hate.

Jerk

1/22/2006, 08:44 AM

This is a no-brainer.

Just look at that fat tub-of-lard Michael Moore. How many "awards" has he won for his works of fiction? Like Rush says, Hollywood "awards" are given to liberals by liberals to make themselves feel "good." It's their stamp of approval. Oh, did Syrianna win something? Big surprise! I can't believe a movie that is anti-American, anti-big business, etc would win an award in Hollywood!

You ain't going to see no Jesus movie win an Oscar. Period. Yet, homosexual cowboys is somehow "ground-breaking." Don't fool yourself, Brokeback is the latest example of Hollywood trying to define what is normal in our culture.

And Hollywood ain't never going to give a flying **** about what the plebians in fly-over country think. They want to be our Masters because they have this little idea that they are "enlightened" whilst you dumb rednecks are stuck in the Dark Ages.

"Like a Brokeback Cowboy!
Howdy partner, Tell me how's the view back there?"

jk the sooner fan

1/22/2006, 08:45 AM

I gotta disagree. The Passion put the blame for Jesus' death squarely on the Jews rather than the Romans that we were all taught in Sunday School. And convincingly so, at least enough to make me do a little research for my self.

did your sunday school omit the part in the bible where pontius pilate let the jews pick between letting either Barrabus or Jesus go free?

Jerk

1/22/2006, 09:03 AM

did your sunday school omit the part in the bible where pontius pilate let the jews pick between letting either Barrabus or Jesus go free?

Yes, and allowing an innocent man to be sentenced to death is the worst sin of all.

Sooner_Bob

1/22/2006, 09:53 AM

did your sunday school omit the part in the bible where pontius pilate let the jews pick between letting either Barrabus or Jesus go free?

I was about to ask the same thing . . .

StoopTroup

1/22/2006, 10:33 AM

So...

Does Pilate washing his hands of Jesus blood and letting the Jews make the decision to free Barrabus and crucify Jesus, make Pilate not responsible for Jesus' death?

Was Barrubus in Brokeback Mountain?

Sooner_Bob

1/22/2006, 10:42 AM

So...

Does Pilate washing his hands of Jesus blood and letting the Jews make the decision to free Barrabus and crucify Jesus, make Pilate not responsible for Jesus' death?

Didn't say that . . .

crawfish

1/22/2006, 11:05 AM

I was always taught that the cruxificition was God's will, and thus no one is really to blame per se, because the cruxifiction was neccesarry to carry out Jesus dying for our sins.Because it isn't like Jesus was sent down to die of old age. Plus, doesn't Judas Iscariot get any credit for his bit?

Word.

You do realize that it's Mel Gibson's hand on screen that holds the stake to be driven into Jesus' hands.

The Jews pushed for Jesus' execution. The Romans were more than happy to do so to keep the peace. The Bible makes that point that is was OUR SIN, collectively, that led Jesus to die on the cross willingly. Anybody who tries to blame some group or another is missing the point entirely.

mdklatt

1/22/2006, 04:11 PM

Walk the Line won three Golden Globes. I didn't know Johnny Cash was gay. :confused:

mrowl

1/22/2006, 04:34 PM

If Clint Eastwood directed Passion, it would have won every award, and been called the best film EVER. Thats hollywood.

usmc-sooner

1/22/2006, 07:07 PM

if passion would have some gay love scenes, an anti-christian slant and they could some have thrown in a shot of Jesus condemning George Bush then it would be accepted as the greatest film of all time in the liberal community.

just look at how this argument shakes down. The liberals when given a choice would rather have gay sex than Jesus.

Give me Jesus anyday.

BOOMERBRADLEY

1/22/2006, 07:25 PM

Jesus was sent to save the lost, not to condemn. It was God's will that he be sent to Earth live as a man, but be blameless among them and to die on the cross for everyone's sins so that we have the hope of eternal life. I use the word hope because not everyone will have eternal life, only those who live according to God's word and only his mercy and grace will allow us to have it.

Sorry, soapbox I know.

Frozen Sooner

1/22/2006, 07:30 PM

Is it at all possible that Brokeback Mountain is just a better film than the Passion?

I mean, have any of you considered the possibility?

BOOMERBRADLEY

1/22/2006, 07:34 PM

Is it at all possible that Brokeback Mountain is just a better film than the Passion?

I mean, have any of you considered the possibility?

I actually never saw the Passion. I read it in the bible so there is no point for me to have to go watch a movie to reaffirm my faith.

I know that Brokeback is about gay guys, so I am never going to watch it.

usmc-sooner

1/22/2006, 07:36 PM

Is it at all possible that Brokeback Mountain is just a better film than the Passion?

I mean, have any of you considered the possibility?

blashemer

you are so going to hell Frozen you just better hope it's not the gay hell!!!

:D :D

jk the sooner fan

1/22/2006, 07:36 PM

Is it at all possible that Brokeback Mountain is just a better film than the Passion?

I mean, have any of you considered the possibility?

gay cowboys vs jesus......

hmmmmm, yeah i'll go with jesus :)

GDC

1/22/2006, 07:45 PM

Apparently Jesus may have been a fictional character as well.

Italian court asked for proof of Jesus
By NICOLE WINFIELD Associated Press
1/22/2006

An atheist sues a priest for claiming that Jesus existed.
ROME -- Lawyers for a small-town parish priest have been ordered to appear in court next week after the Roman Catholic cleric was accused of unlawfully asserting what many people take for granted: that Jesus Christ existed.

The Rev. Enrico Righi was named in a 2002 complaint filed by Luigi Cascioli after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth.

Cascioli, a lifelong atheist, claims that Righi violated two Italian laws by making the assertion: so-called "abuse of popular belief" in which someone fraudulently deceives people; and "impersonation," in which someone gains by attributing a false name to someone.

Cascioli says that for 2,000 years the Roman Catholic Church has been deceiving people by furthering the fable that Christ existed, and says the church has been gaining financially by impersonating as Christ someone by the name of John of Gamala, the son of Judas from Gamala.

He also asserts that the Gospels -- the most frequently cited testimony of Jesus' existence -- are inconsistent, full of errors and biased, and that other written evidence from

the time is scant and doesn't hold up to scholarly analysis.

Prosecutors, who in Italy are obliged to investigate such complaints, initially tried to have the case dismissed, saying no crime could be verified.

But Cascioli challenged them, and Judge Gaetano Mautone set a hearing for next Friday in Viterbo, north of Rome, to discuss preliminary motions in Cascioli's bid to have the court appoint technical experts to review the historical data and determine if Jesus really did exist.

Cascioli, 72, said in a recent interview that he decided to pursue the case against Righi, a priest in the village of Bagnoregio, near Viterbo, because the cleric had written in the parish bulletin that Jesus existed.

Asked why he went after Righi -- a schoolmate when he and Cascioli were boys -- and not any number of bishops, cardinals or even the pope who have asserted the very same thing, Cascioli said it didn't really matter whom he named in his complaint.

"When one demonstrates that Christ didn't exist, attacking a simple priest is the same thing as attacking a bishop or cardinal," Cascioli said.

Cascioli is quick to stress that he has no problem with Christians freely professing their faith. Rather, he says in his complaint, he wants to "denounce the abuse that the Catholic Church commits by availing itself of its prestige in order to inculcate -- as if being real and historical -- facts that are really just inventions."

Righi, who has been a priest for 50 years, declined to be interviewed on the advice of his lawyers before the pending court date. But he set out his rebuke of Cascioli in a recent issue of his parish bulletin "Risveglio," or "Awaken," and said by telephone that the article encapsulated his position.

Righi argues that the existence of Christ is "unmistakable" because of the substantial historical evidence -- both pagan and religious -- testifying that he indeed lived.

"Cascioli maintains that Christ never existed. If he doesn't see the sun at midday, he can't denounce me just because I do. He should denounce all believers!" Righi wrote.

He cited many known observers, including non-Christian ones, who have written about the existence of Jesus, including the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, considered by scholars to be the most important non-Christian source on Christ's existence.

A passage of Josephus' "Jewish Antiquities," completed in A.D. 93, cites the execution in A.D. 62 of "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, James by name."

Righi also cited Pliny the Younger, who in the early second century described a policy of executing Christians who refused to curse Christ, and Tacitus, another writer of the same time who wrote that Jesus was executed by the sentence of Pontius Pilate.

"You would have to give lie to each, one by one, to cancel the Christ man that they speak of," Righi wrote.

R. Scott Appleby, a professor of church history at the University of Notre Dame, concurs. There's "no real doubt" that Jesus existed, he said.

"But what Jesus of Nazareth did and what he means is a different question," Appleby said. "But on the question of the existence, there is more evidence of the existence of Jesus of Nazareth than there would be for many other historical people who actually existed. Not only did Jesus actually exist, but he actually had some kind of prominence to be mentioned in two or three chronicles."

Cascioli says he fully recognizes that his case has a slim chance of succeeding in overwhelmingly Catholic Italy, but not because his argument is lacking.

"We aren't optimistic -- unless the Madonna makes a miracle, but I don't think that will happen," he joked.

Cascioli says he is merely going through the necessary legal steps in Italy so he can ultimately take the matter to the European Court of Human Rights, where he intends to pursue the case against the church for "religious racism."

"I was born against Christ and God," he said. "I'm doing it (the complaint) now because I should do it before I die."

Frozen Sooner

1/22/2006, 07:45 PM

blashemer

you are so going to hell Frozen you just better hope it's not the gay hell!!!

:D :D

Wouldn't the gay hell be full of straight people wearing unfashionable clothes? Because I'd fit right in.

Frozen Sooner

1/22/2006, 07:48 PM

And that lawsuit is bunk. However, what's the over/under on the number of e-mails that get sent about how it shows the need for tort reform in the US-even though it's happening in Italy?

usmc-sooner

1/22/2006, 07:49 PM

you're going to the federal pound me in the *** hell, Frozen

they are going to give you the o face

:D

handcrafted

1/22/2006, 10:32 PM

I was always under the impression that Christian orthodoxy claims that EVERYONE is responsible for Christ's death.

Somewhat oversimplified, but fixed and now essentially accurate. :)

Nobody lives a Godly life on their own. Living a "Godly life", whatever your definition of that is, doesn't get you anywhere unless you're already saved, Froz.

handcrafted

1/22/2006, 10:34 PM

Oh man, you have to see it. Like everyone should see "The Wall" at least once. It was an awsome movie. It didn't make me any more or less likely to believe in the Bible as a litteral document but a good watch to be sure.

Hey Ron, got a question for you. Just curious. Since you so easily dismiss the Bible as an accurate or truthful collection of documents, I was wondering what other ancient Mediterranean or Near Eastern texts you would also consider to be fabrications?

handcrafted

1/22/2006, 10:38 PM

Oh, I see where you're coming from. I guess since I never went to Sunday School, I figured that the majority of blame was usually placed on Jesus' fellow Jews.

Here's an idea. Try reading the Gospels. If you want to know what they say, just read them. It's pretty clear what happens. Jesus allows himself to be tried and executed by evil men from both groups, knowing that his death and resurrection are the ultimate purpose for his being on Earth in the first place.

handcrafted

1/22/2006, 10:43 PM

Word.

You do realize that it's Mel Gibson's hand on screen that holds the stake to be driven into Jesus' hands.

The Jews pushed for Jesus' execution. The Romans were more than happy to do so to keep the peace. The Bible makes that point that is was OUR SIN, collectively, that led Jesus to die on the cross willingly. Anybody who tries to blame some group or another is missing the point entirely.

Word.

Big Red Ron

1/22/2006, 11:05 PM

Hey Ron, got a question for you. Just curious. Since you so easily dismiss the Bible as an accurate or truthful collection of documents, I was wondering what other ancient Mediterranean or Near Eastern texts you would also consider to be fabrications?The Koran and any other document written hundreds of years after the actual events, based on oral traditions.

Blue

1/22/2006, 11:10 PM

The Koran and any other document written hundreds of years after the actual events, based on oral traditions.

The Old Testament was written long before Jesus showed up. The New Testament, written mostly only shortly (30-50 years) after Jesus arose from the dead, fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament.

Btw, the New Testament was written by people who personally knew Jesus Christ.

Big Red Ron

1/22/2006, 11:16 PM

The Old Testament was written long before Jesus showed up. The New Testament, written mostly only shortly (30-50 years) after Jesus arose from the dead, fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament.

Btw, the New Testament was written by people who personally knew Jesus Christ.I think you underestimate how much is/was wittingly or not lost in it's many translations.

I have a hard time with what gets intentionally left out of US history books and we are the most open society in history. If that tells you anything.

Don't get me wrong, I don't claim to know all or to be right. I'm just not a follower in general.

Blue

1/22/2006, 11:20 PM

I think you underestimate how much is/was wittingly or not lost in it's many translations.

I have a hard time with what gets intentionally left out of US history books and we are the most open society in history. If that tells you anything.

Don't get me wrong, I don't claim to know all or to be right. I'm just not a follower in general.

Well call me a follower. A follower of Jesus Christ. I have faith that what's in that book is exactly what's supposed to be in it.

But I see your point.

Big Red Ron

1/22/2006, 11:28 PM

Well call me a follower. A follower of Jesus Christ. I have faith that what's in that book is exactly what's supposed to be in it.

But I see your point.Please don't get me wrong. I have the utmost respect for the faithfull! I just haven't gotten there yet. Maybe someday.

Blue

1/22/2006, 11:33 PM

Please don't get me wrong. I have the utmost respect for the faithfull! I just haven't gotten there yet. Maybe someday.

Well it's definitely hard to keep it sometimes. I don't exactly represent the teachings of the Bible most of the time.

JohnnyMack

1/22/2006, 11:53 PM

Well looks like this thread is melting down nicely without any help from yours truly.

I'll save my energy for subjects we haven't already ****ed into the ground.

Blue

1/22/2006, 11:58 PM

Well looks like this thread is melting down nicely without any help from yours truly.

I'll save my energy for subjects we haven't already ****ed into the ground.

Heh. Blah, blah, and blah.:P

My opinion on Jizback? I have none, cause I won't be seeing it.

soonerscuba

1/23/2006, 12:21 AM

Well looks like this thread is melting down nicely without any help from yours truly.

I'll save my energy for subjects we haven't already ****ed into the ground.

I think I'll join you.

Blue

1/23/2006, 12:23 AM

I think I'll join you.

Blah, blah, blah ...;)

Scott D

1/23/2006, 08:33 AM

What I'd like is for someone to explain to me the fascination that so many people who are so anti-gay, strongly religious, very 'wonder bread' in their mentality have with that gay cowboy movie. ;)

GDC

1/23/2006, 08:40 AM

What I'd like is for someone to explain to me the fascination that so many people who are so anti-gay, strongly religious, very 'wonder bread' in their mentality have with that gay cowboy movie. ;)

Yes, we have had several lengthy threads about it, I was pondering the same thing.

crawfish

1/23/2006, 08:58 AM

What I'd like is for someone to explain to me the fascination that so many people who are so anti-gay, strongly religious, very 'wonder bread' in their mentality have with that gay cowboy movie. ;)

You can't deny, the humor possibilities with a gay cowboy movie are endless. Dang you, meano, for deleting our alternate title thread. :mad:

mdklatt

1/23/2006, 10:35 AM

What I'd like is for someone to explain to me the fascination that so many people who are so anti-gay, strongly religious, very 'wonder bread' in their mentality have with that gay cowboy movie. ;)

The very idea of gay cowboy sex touches them deeply in places they'd rather not go.

GDC

1/23/2006, 10:39 AM

The very idea of gay cowboy sex touches them deeply in places they'd rather not go.

When I see these numerous and lengthy threads like this I can't help but think of American Beauty.

crawfish

1/23/2006, 10:42 AM

The very idea of gay cowboy sex touches them deeply in places they'd rather not go.

Ahh, yes. And all those who whined and complained about "The Passion" were obviously closet Christians. :rolleyes:

Frozen Sooner

1/23/2006, 10:48 AM

Who, in this forum, complained about The Passion?

mdklatt

1/23/2006, 10:56 AM

Ahh, yes. And all those who whined and complained about "The Passion" were obviously closet Christians. :rolleyes:

Wow, somebody is sure getting defensive about a joke. Hmmm....

;)

crawfish

1/23/2006, 11:35 AM

Who, in this forum, complained about The Passion?

Wow, somebody is sure getting defensive about a joke. Hmmm....

;)

Heh. We got two!!!!

:D

handcrafted

1/23/2006, 11:38 AM

Heh. We got two!!!!

:D

The idea of being accountable for their actions to the almighty Creator of the universe touches them deeply in places they'd rather not go.

And I'm *not* joking.

mdklatt

1/23/2006, 11:41 AM

The idea of being accountable for their actions to the almighty Creator of the universe touches them deeply in places they'd rather not go.

And I'm *not* joking.

Only if you believe the Bible in the first place.

handcrafted

1/23/2006, 11:43 AM

Only if you believe the Bible in the first place.

That's okay, I don't believe in gay sex. Never seen it. Therefore, it doesn't exist.

mdklatt

1/23/2006, 11:46 AM

That's okay, I don't believe in gay sex. Never seen it. Therefore, it doesn't exist.

Then why are you in this thread?

handcrafted

1/23/2006, 12:14 PM

Then why are you in this thread?

:rolleyes:

mdklatt

1/23/2006, 12:18 PM

:rolleyes:

No, seriously. You obviously have no intention of seeing the movie, so why do you care what other people think about it, or what kind of media attention it gets, or what kind of awards it gets? In other words, why are you going out of your way to be offended instead of just ignoring it altogether?

Scott D

1/23/2006, 12:45 PM

No, seriously. You obviously have no intention of seeing the movie, so why do you care what other people think about it, or what kind of media attention it gets, or what kind of awards it gets? In other words, why are you going out of your way to be offended instead of just ignoring it altogether?

or even better, where was this outcry when 'Philadelphia' was made.

jk the sooner fan

1/23/2006, 12:49 PM

weak comparison

Stanley1

1/23/2006, 12:50 PM

or even better, where was this outcry when 'Philadelphia' was made.

I know alot of people that weren't happy about that movie. Maybe the outcry wasn't as much, but there was one.

Scott D

1/23/2006, 12:51 PM

explain how it's a weak comparison? Were not both films an 'attack' on the 'sensibilities' of 'middle america'?

jk the sooner fan

1/23/2006, 12:57 PM

Scott D

1/23/2006, 01:03 PM

brokeback has an added element of taboo that philadelphia doesnt....philadelphia didnt have the open gay sex scenes that i've been told brokeback does....havent seen brokeback so i can only go on heresay

brokeback takes the most "rugged" character in our history and turns them homo.....i'd bet you any amount of money if the movie were about 2 accountants or IT nerds meeting every summer, there wouldnt be as much noise about this movie

Fair enough....although I don't think there are any actual gay sex scenes at least in a graphic sense in the film. I think in another thread someone said that the sex scenes they have with their wives were a lot more graphic.

Philadelphia still had a scene that had a lot of kissing involved between Tom Hanks' character and Antonio Banderas' character.

But since we're referring to rugged characters now, what about Biloxi Blues? It had two gay soldiers in basic training in it.

jk the sooner fan

1/23/2006, 01:06 PM

dont ask dont tell ;)

handcrafted

1/23/2006, 03:33 PM

Philadelphia - didn't see it for the same reason I'm not seeing BM
Biloxi Blues - didn't treat the gay guys in a positive light IIR, but at the very least it wasn't central to the storyline

And as for why I care...well...it makes me angry that the existence of this film will also keep me from watching the Oscars this year, so as not to have homosexuality shoved down my throat by a bunch of actors who couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag, yet they seem to know what's best for American society. It bums me out, because I am a movie buff, and I usually like watching the Oscars. And it bums me out that increasingly what turns out as product in movie theaters is more crap than entertainment. I care about the state of our society, and art/movies imitate life, though sometimes not so well. Nevertheless, BM is an indication of an overall degradation of the concept of shame, which tells you in stark terms where we are headed morally.

mdklatt

1/23/2006, 03:36 PM

I usually like watching the Oscars.

NTTAWWT. :D

handcrafted

1/23/2006, 03:38 PM

NTTAWWT. :D

:rolleyes:

soonerscuba

1/23/2006, 03:46 PM

I'm not going to watch the Oscars because they gave the nod to Titanic over L.A. Confidential, Shakespeare in Love over Saving Private Ryan, and Chicago over Gangs of New York.

yermom

1/23/2006, 03:53 PM

Oscar loves whores and gays, and transgenders. i'm surprised anyone watches the show anymore ;)

gdc's American Beauty comment is pretty interesting

handcrafted

1/23/2006, 03:54 PM

I'm not going to watch the Oscars because they gave the nod to Titanic over L.A. Confidential, Shakespeare in Love over Saving Private Ryan, and Chicago over Gangs of New York.

Good points all (with the possible exception of Titanic). But the AMPAA has had some other really good years: Return of the King comes to mind. Also the year Silence of the Lambs won, it came out of nowhere and was totally unexpected for a horror film to win. I'd say it's been about 50-50 over the past 15 years or so. My wife and I used to make a habit of seeing all the Best Picture winners, but lately (except for RotK) they just haven't been worth it.

handcrafted

1/23/2006, 03:56 PM

Oscar loves whores and gays, and transgenders.

Not as much as the Tonys and Golden Globes do. Though I'm not even ticked off at the Tonys right now, because Spamalot won last time. :D

OUthunder

1/23/2006, 04:07 PM

Fudge cravings?

Blue

1/23/2006, 04:43 PM

gdc's American Beauty comment is pretty interesting

Or you could say, "Methinks thou doth protest too much."

Scott D

1/23/2006, 07:08 PM

If you base your watching of the Oscars on a single movie then you need a hobby. I don't watch the Oscars because it's a nonsensical bloated self fellating production. It doesn't need a gay movie to make me not watch it, just the overrated crap that it's been for the last decade was enough to do that.