Is France finally coming around?

[Harry Beanbag]

France rejected Iran's request for more talks on the Islamic republic's nuclear program, saying Wednesday that Tehran first must suspend its atomic activities.


http://phoenix.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D8F74IBG0

[Pieces Hit]

France rejected Iran's request for more talks on the Islamic republic's nuclear program, saying Wednesday that Tehran first must suspend its atomic activities until they use French-made components in their reactor and weapons.

Fixed.

[SoonerProphet]

Is Iran in violation of the NPT? Does France and the European tripartite have a legal leg to stand on?

[JohnnyMack]

Krauthammer has an interesting take on this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/17/AR2006011700893.html

[JohnnyMack]

Is Iran in violation of the NPT? Does France and the European tripartite have a legal leg to stand on?

Do you really think they're not?

What are they going to do about it?

[SoonerProphet]

leave it to wheelchair chuck to bring up obscure and idiotic WWII references.

[SoonerProphet]

Do you really think they're not?

What are they going to do about it?


there is no evidence to suggest that they are, in violation of the NPT that is. personally, i am not about to believe any dissidents, iranian chalabis, or ken adelman's of the world. they lied through their teeth the last time this scenario went down.

who is they?

[Pieces Hit]

I got it from my sources they have thousands of tons of WMD's.

[SoonerProphet]

I got it from my sources they have thousands of tons of WMD's.

Salman Pak?

[JohnnyMack]

there is no evidence to suggest that they are, in violation of the NPT that is. personally, i am not about to believe any dissidents, iranian chalabis, or ken adelman's of the world. they lied through their teeth the last time this scenario went down.

who is they?

I for one don't believe that the only reason Iran is resuming its nuclear research is so it can power up Tehran. Maybe I'm that naive and not very smart.

They is the European Tripartite you were referring to. What are they going to do about Iran's efforts (that aren't happening ;))? Regardless of the legality, what are they going to do about it?

[Pieces Hit]

Now if Iran was tough like North Korea - nothing would be done.

Nip it in the bud, I say.

[mdklatt]

I for one don't believe that the only reason Iran is resuming its nuclear research is so it can power up Tehran.

I think it's Tel Aviv they want to light up.

Why does oil-rich Iran need nuclear power? Are they they worried about greenhouse gasses? Surely the money they're spending on nuclear "energy" is far more than the money they could make by selling the excess oil.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The Iranian leaders are worse than N Korea, because they have so much economic clout.

[JohnnyMack]

I think it's Tel Aviv they want to light up.

Why does oil-rich Iran need nuclear power? Are they they worried about greenhouse gasses? Surely the money they're spending on nuclear "energy" is far more than the money they could make by selling the excess oil.

I think they're doing it because they can. With Russia and China standing behind them, who's going to stop Iran from enriching uranium?

[SoonerProphet]

I for one don't believe that the only reason Iran is resuming its nuclear research is so it can power up Tehran. Maybe I'm that naive and not very smart.

They is the European Tripartite you were referring to. What are they going to do about Iran's efforts (that aren't happening ;))? Regardless of the legality, what are they going to do about it?

Not that naive either, but they are a fossil fuel producing money and stand to make a substantial amount of coin on selling it. They also are in a pretty rough hood and are quite aware that a nuclear weapon will deter various and sundry neighbors.

Apparently they might try to push the issue to the Security Council.

[JohnnyMack]

Apparently they might try to push the issue to the Security Council.

I think Russia and China will tell 'em to eff off, but that's just me.

[Pieces Hit]

Well when Kenya starts throwing it's weight around, watch out China!

[mdklatt]

Iran confident of escaping Security Council referral (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C01%5C19%5Cstory_19-1-2006_pg4_14)

Unless "Security Council referral" is code for "we're gonna sic George Bush on your ***" that doesn't sound too scary to me.

Stop! Or we'll say 'stop' again!

[IronSooner]

Stop! Or we'll say 'stop' again!

No no, it's "Now go away or we will taunt you a second time."

http://www.cdaccess.com/gifs/screen/holygr3.jpg

[Widescreen]

Is Iran in violation of the NPT? Does France and the European tripartite have a legal leg to stand on?
leave it to SP to come to the defense of the bad guy.


leave it to wheelchair chuck to bring up obscure and idiotic WWII references.
Your fellow lefties aren't going to appreciate your insensitivity toward the disabled.

[Jerk]

Someone needs to tell the mullahs that those Dolphin class Israeli subs carrying up to 16 Harpoon surface-to-surface missles per sub can be, yes indeed, can each be tipped with a nuke.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/dolphin/Dolphin.html

[SoonerProphet]

leave it to SP to come to the defense of the bad guy.


Your fellow lefties aren't going to appreciate your insensitivity toward the disabled.

Not defending the "bad guy', just speaking to issues of sovereignty and self determination. Especially when considering the double standards employed in the crazy Middle-East.

Couldn't care less what any lefty thought about me, I disagree with most of their politics as well.

I'll ask again for sh*ts and giggles, expecting similar replies i'm sure...is Iran in violation of the NPT?

[JohnnyMack]

I'll ask again for sh*ts and giggles, expecting similar replies i'm sure...is Iran in violation of the NPT?

If they're not then why say this:


He added that Tehran would also "cease the application" of the additional protocol to the NUCLEAR NON-PROLIFERATION TREATY which "gives agency inspectors a free hand" in the IAEA investigation. "This means our cooperation with the IAEA would be reduced, and the agency does not want this to happen," Entezami said.

I mean if they're playing by the rules why do they care if the inspectors monitor what they do?

[SoonerProphet]

If they're not then why say this:



I mean if they're playing by the rules why do they care if the inspectors monitor what they do?

The enrichment of uranium in itself is not a violation of the NPT. The context of that quote may be due to language coming from the West. Machismo talk often leads to more machismo talk.

[Widescreen]

The enrichment of uranium in itself is not a violation of the NPT. The context of that quote may be due to language coming from the West. Machismo talk often leads to more machismo talk.
I don't know about the NPT but by breaking those seals, they have to be in violation of someting - at least the IAEA.

A rogue nation like Iran cannot be allowed to have nukes. I don't care what 'neighborhood' they live in. They've already stated their goals of wiping Israel off the map and I don't think for a moment that the probability of a bunch of Palestinians being blown away too would stop them.

[SoonerProphet]

I don't know about the NPT but by breaking those seals, they have to be in violation of someting - at least the IAEA.

No, under the treaty they have the right to pursue enrichment under the NPT. They voluntarily stopped this process, only to resume after much overheated rhetoric from the Euro 3, even though the Euros proposal was a complete sham and in violation of the Paris protocols.

So again, exactly what are they violating?


A rogue nation like Iran cannot be allowed to have nukes. I don't care what 'neighborhood' they live in. They've already stated their goals of wiping Israel off the map and I don't think for a moment that the probability of a bunch of Palestinians being blown away too would stop them.

Well, if and when your personal fiction comes to fruition, then we turn Persia into a shiny glass bowl. Until that points comes, or even evidence of weaponization program, they have the right to pursue peaceful nuclear energy.

[Widescreen]

Well, if and when your personal fiction comes to fruition, then we turn Persia into a shiny glass bowl. Until that points comes, or even evidence of weaponization program, they have the right to pursue peaceful nuclear energy.
:confused: What personal fiction?

And how would you recommend we go about getting evidence of a weaponization program since they won't let anyone in? Do you really think Iran deserves the benefit of the doubt on anything?

[SoonerProphet]

:confused: What personal fiction?

And how would you recommend we go about getting evidence of a weaponization program since they won't let anyone in? Do you really think Iran deserves the benefit of the doubt on anything?

Yes, your ability to read the future astounds me. Could it be possible that Iran seeks a nuke to not only defend itself from regime changers but embrace the national pride that comes with it.

Benefit of the doubt, this is realpolitik here, nations have interest and will pursue them. It matters little what I think, that is just the reality of the 21st century.

[JohnnyMack]

The enrichment of uranium in itself is not a violation of the NPT. The context of that quote may be due to language coming from the West. Machismo talk often leads to more machismo talk.

It's the west's fault then huh?

It's the west's fault that they aren't abiding by the rules of the NNPT by not allowing inspectors to monitor their actions?

How so exactly?

[JohnnyMack]

Benefit of the doubt, this is realpolitik here, nations have interest and will pursue them. It matters little what I think, that is just the reality of the 21st century.

Under the rules of the NNPT they can't develop these weapons. If it's just being used to keep Tehran streetlights lit who gives a **** if the inspectors are there or not? That's not rhetoric, that's a question.

[Pieces Hit]

Yes, your ability to read the future astounds me.

http://www.hammerposters.com/pics/us80155.jpg

ps - They blew it up.

[SoonerProphet]

It's the west's fault then huh?

It's the west's fault that they aren't abiding by the rules of the NNPT by not allowing inspectors to monitor their actions?

How so exactly?

They are allowed to enrich uranium as part of the fuel cycle to get reactors up and running. Umm, wtf, who said anything about not allowing inpectors to monitor actions, as far as I know the IAEA is still there.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48338

[JohnnyMack]

They are allowed to enrich uranium as part of the fuel cycle to get reactors up and running. Umm, wtf, who said anything about not allowing inpectors to monitor actions, as far as I know the IAEA is still there.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48338

Iran all but said if you push this issue with the UNSC it will strain the relationship with the IAEA, which is politic speak for, we'll toss you out of our country and do what we want because we have the blessing of China and Russia.

[mdklatt]

They are allowed to enrich uranium as part of the fuel cycle to get reactors up and running.

Why in the world would Iran be interested in nuclear power when they sit on more oil than they could ever possibly use? I don't think the Kyoto Protocol is a big topic over there.

[Widescreen]

Yes, your ability to read the future astounds me. Could it be possible that Iran seeks a nuke to not only defend itself from regime changers but embrace the national pride that comes with it.
Yes, it could be that but if you have a brain you'll realize it's not.


Benefit of the doubt, this is realpolitik here, nations have interest and will pursue them. It matters little what I think, that is just the reality of the 21st century.
You clearly have a career ahead of you at the UN where all 3rd world tyrant interests and desires are always at the top of the agenda. As an American, is it really that difficult to be more concerned about the safety of America and her allies? With you it's always some kind of moral equivalence. If the UN doesn't work out, I hear Saddam needs an attorney. You and Ramsey would make a good team. He spouts the same kind of nonsense about America being the bad guy who always attacks the poor misunderstood middle-east dictator.

[Pieces Hit]

Why in the world would Iran be interested in nuclear power when they sit on more oil than they could ever possibly use? I don't think the Kyoto Protocol is a big topic over there.Because they're just such a progressive-minded people.

[mdklatt]

Because they're just such a progressive-minded people.

Actually, the Iranian people are pretty progressive and Western-friendly by Middle East standards. The Iranian government? Not so much.

[Pieces Hit]

I find I am just staggeringly misinformed on a regular basis here.

[SoonerProphet]

Iran all but said if you push this issue with the UNSC it will strain the relationship with the IAEA, which is politic speak for, we'll toss you out of our country and do what we want because we have the blessing of China and Russia.

Umm, ok, but as of now..in the present, an inspection regime is in place and on the ground.

[JohnnyMack]

Umm, ok, but as of now..in the present, an inspection regime is in place and on the ground.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - Ben Franklin.

[SoonerProphet]

Yes, it could be that but if you have a brain you'll realize it's not.

You claim to like a good debate, but then insist in this bullsh*t. What is so hard about wrapping your brain around the simple concepts of self-determination.



You clearly have a career ahead of you at the UN where all 3rd world tyrant interests and desires are always at the top of the agenda. As an American, is it really that difficult to be more concerned about the safety of America and her allies? With you it's always some kind of moral equivalence. If the UN doesn't work out, I hear Saddam needs an attorney. You and Ramsey would make a good team. He spouts the same kind of nonsense about America being the bad guy who always attacks the poor misunderstood middle-east dictator.

Is always the same with you, same old misguided nonsense and ad hominems, shouldn't expect too much objective thought, your head might explode.

[SoonerProphet]

.

So blowing the joint up or forcing the issue is prevention...i am not following your logic here.

[JohnnyMack]

So blowing the joint up or forcing the issue is prevention...i am not following your logic here.

Did I say we should blow anything up? No.

Did I say that we should monitor their actions as tightly as possible? Yes.

Did I say that I don't think it matters because they'll probably just renounce the NNPT give us the bird and we'll be left shaking our fist because China and Russia tell us to back off? Yes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

:P .


You clearly have a career ahead of you at the UN where all 3rd world tyrant interests and desires are always at the top of the agenda. As an American, is it really that difficult to be more concerned about the safety of America and her allies? With you it's always some kind of moral equivalence. If the UN doesn't work out, I hear Saddam needs an attorney. You and Ramsey would make a good team. He spouts the same kind of nonsense about America being the bad guy who always attacks the poor misunderstood middle-east dictator. There is a number of people that post here who think like your quote describes. It baffles me how they think. I wonder if any have lived out of country, and how they have come to not appreciate the wonderful and amazing experience that being an American is.
We have a great amount of capability to protect ourselves, and we should do it, rather than just waiting to be attacked.

[Harry Beanbag]

There is a number of people that post here who think like your quote describes. It baffles me how they think. I wonder if any have lived out of country, and how they have come to not appreciate the wonderful and amazing experience that being an American is.
We have a great amount of capability to protect ourselves, and we should do it, rather than just waiting to be attacked.



Oh yeah, well you're just a sheep that willingly gives up your liberty for security, so there! ;)

[Widescreen]

You claim to like a good debate, but then insist in this bullsh*t. What is so hard about wrapping your brain around the simple concepts of self-determination.
I do like a good debate. I just don't understand why you jump in screaming "self-determination" and "sovereignty" any time someone says another country (typically a US enemy) is doing something they shouldn't be doing. Do you not see that you paint yourself as an enemy sympathizer?


Is always the same with you, same old misguided nonsense and ad hominems, shouldn't expect too much objective thought, your head might explode.
Stay tuned for some all-new misguided nonsense and ad-hominems.

[mdklatt]

I just don't understand why you jump in screaming "self-determination" and "sovereignty" any time someone says another country (typically a US enemy) is doing something they shouldn't be doing.

I think his point is that Iran might not be doing anything they shouldn't be doing according to the NPT. Yet.

[Pieces Hit]

Let me chime in here.


http://store.drumbum.com/media/chimes-wind-chimes-drums.jpg


Thank You.

[SoonerProphet]

I do like a good debate. I just don't understand why you jump in screaming "self-determination" and "sovereignty" any time someone says another country (typically a US enemy) is doing something they shouldn't be doing. Do you not see that you paint yourself as an enemy sympathizer?

Whether it be Israel, Pakistan, India, China, or any other country they have the right to pursue their own national interests...as do we. If those interest collide, well, the bigger dog may win.

As to proliferation, I think that genie is out of the bottle and no amount of nattering nabobs of any political stripe will be able put in back in.

Paint myself as an enemy sympathizer, that is pretty retarded.



Stay tuned for some all-new misguided nonsense and ad-hominems.

Stick with it, it is better than your debate skills.

[OklahomaTuba]

If those interest collide, well, the bigger dog may win.
Interesting, for someone always bashing statists.

[JohnnyMack]

No, under the treaty they have the right to pursue enrichment under the NPT. They voluntarily stopped this process, only to resume after much overheated rhetoric from the Euro 3, even though the Euros proposal was a complete sham and in violation of the Paris protocols.

So again, exactly what are they violating?



Well, if and when your personal fiction comes to fruition, then we turn Persia into a shiny glass bowl. Until that points comes, or even evidence of weaponization program, they have the right to pursue peaceful nuclear energy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11105378/

oopsie.

[SoonerWood]

I think I see interests colliding

[Tear Down This Wall]

Iran is going to get a fat boot in the butt. Their hostage-taking president is stupid to openly screw with Israel. The Israelis will kick the godless ragheads back to the middle ages if he's not careful.

[SicEmBaylor]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but the French response to additional talks and their recent nuclear sabre rattling has little to do with world security and everything to do with France attempting to position itself to take the lead on European security issues.

[SoonerProphet]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11105378/

oopsie.

oopsie what? not defending them, they have their day in court and it appears to be thursday.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Whatever. Iran burning its bridges with the spineless French bastards is okay by me. Less people to balk when Israel turns Tehran into a big sheet of glass.

[soonerscuba]

I just feel good in the warm feeling the TDTW's God is better than nameless people he has never met's God.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I've met plenty of muslims. More than I care to have met. They were all over the place in college. I went to a couple of parties held by these muslims from the Emirates, Kuwait, and Qatar. They were, of course, screwing the fat girls no one else would and drinking like fish. Good muslims.

Anyway, they always rattled on about Allah this and Allah that, but never seemed to be able to explain that if their "god" Allah was so great, why their countries were such crap holes. And, if their people were so devout, why it was a crime to proclaim any other religion there.

Islam is a farce. The countries run by Islams and their Sharia law are cowards. They know their faith is so thin that if people were given the choice of freedom and dignity given by other faiths they'd take it and run.

[TexasLidig8r]

Ok.. so I'm confuzzled now...

Are we living in a time of Pax Americana?

Or...

Is this really just the start of the next Crusades, with us good, God-fearing Christians trying to put the throw down on the bad, Fake God-worshipping heathen?

[GDC]

Hey :texan: , STFU, it's Tuesday.

[Tear Down This Wall]

No, the Israelis will throw down with Iran. It'll be Pax Israel. And I say, great.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Besides, we've already seen what kind of protection "Allah" gives his the muslim counties' militaries. We crapkicked the Taliban out of power in Afghanstan and whipped Saddam Hussein in Iraq twice.

[JohnnyMack]

Besides, we've already seen what kind of protection "Allah" gives his the muslim counties' militaries. We crapkicked the Taliban out of power in Afghanstan and whipped Saddam Hussein in Iraq twice.

So basically we took out a bunch of ragtag fighters with no real army out and hit a weak Iraq once and then finished off a crippled Iraq a decade later.

I'll be curious to see how gung ho we are about a ground war in Iran.

I wonder what kind of position we'd be in to deal with a true threat to our interests (Iran) if we hadn't been wasting lives and money on Iraq.

[soonerscuba]

My roommate and myself would disagree on your assessment of Muslims, TDTW. Incidentally, he goes hoggin' and drinks a lot. I consider him every bit as good a Muslim as I consider myself a Christian (which is to say, not very good). Have issue all you want about the functioning governments and their systems of laws over there, chances are, I'll agree with you, but it is a function of economic gain within the seats of power more than religion. We as Americans are so ingrained with religion in this country that we cannot see through total bull****, we all know that "a culture of life" does not include killing the mentally handicapped, it is all show for political points. What is sad is that it transfers to leaders of other countries as well, Iran is a bad place because it is run by Muslims? I don't think so, it probably has more to do with consolidation of power.

Plus, I find it hilarious that you look down upon those for nailing fat chicks and drinking as morally inferior while at the same time advocating the annihilation of thousands of people.

[SicEmBaylor]

Plus, I find it hilarious that you look down upon those for nailing fat chicks and drinking as morally inferior while at the same time advocating the annihilation of thousands of people.

Oh it would take millions not thousands to do the trick.