An honest question about the OL for 06

[Luthor]

What kind of shape will you guys be in on the OL for 06? I know you loose Joseph(?) but you have quite a few young guys returning that got a lot of snaps. I know we lose 2 for sure and possibly 3. Losing 2 won't be too bad. Losing 3 will have a definite impact.

[OU_Sooners75]

What kind of shape will you guys be in on the OL for 06? I know you loose Joseph(?) but you have quite a few young guys returning that got a lot of snaps. I know we lose 2 for sure and possibly 3. Losing 2 won't be too bad. Losing 3 will have a definite impact.


We lose four guys that started the Holiday Bowl.


But we had something like 11 play throughout the season, 2 JUCO transfers and a couple of good committs. So we should be fine.

[stonecoldsoonerfan]

really don't think we'll be worse than last year overall. i think that with wilson as our o-coord. now that we'll be able to be more adaptable to our personnel and be able to mask our weaknesses there.

jmho.

[CtheB]

The best thing we have is that many of the freshmen OL that played little this year are going to get their first year in the weight program. Should be much better next year individually. And in 2007, if we can keep them all around, which has been a problem, they could be dominating.

Even without the experience, I believe them to have a chance to be better than this year's version, even with the graduations. The experience at QB and WR will help them a ton in 2006.

[Tear Down This Wall]

It'll be a better line in 2006. We lose the seniors who couldn't block (Chaisson, Bush), were played out of place by the crack OL coach (Joseph), and that shouldn't have been offensive linemen in the first place (Chester).

The 2006 line will be full of guys eager to play (Cooper, Quinn, Braxton, Robinson) not those wanting to stand around on the sideline for three or four years collecting rings from other players' efforts (Messner, Bush).

Messner should be easy enough to beat out. Akin Millington, a foreign dude who had only played organized football for three or four years, was ahead of him before he left the team.

The bottom line is that it can't be any worse than the 2005 offensive line. And AD proved that if he's healthy, he only needs a little opening to hit paydirt.

[NormanPride]

Messner actually played pretty solidly this year. I think he graded out the highest of all the linemen. However, Wilson has said that Cooper was perhaps the best lineman we have, and he was a true freshman. Wow! Too bad he got injured...

We'll be really young. I think we'll still blow a few assignments a game resulting in a sack or two and a loss of yards. But we won't get blown off the ball as much like we did this year, because of the raw talent.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Messner's grading out the highest is the biggest joke of all. Against TCU the dude looked like he'd never been on a football field. Sure, it's fun to stand around on the sideline for three years while Wes Sims and Jammal Brown are out kicking arse, but you figure at some point the thought might have popped into his head that he'd have to be out there one day. Maybe not. Maybe during practices Millington was getting more snaps even as a back-up to the degree that he figured he'd be sitting all five years of his eligibility.

[NormanPride]

Yeah, but that was also the first start he'd ever had. The kid wasn't ready! The rest of the year he was fine. It was always Daving blowing his blocks and missing assignments. You can count on one hand the number of times Messner held all year, while it takes two hands to count how many times the rest of the line held in one game. Face it, Messner wasn't the problem this year. He was solid.

[CtheB]

Pride, totally agree. The problems we had on the OL were on the left side. I just don't think that Joseph ever got the feel at OT, and I am not sure that he has the footwork to play there. Remember the name Wes Sims. Even though we all thought he was average, he was never replaced by two NFL caliber lineman in Brown and Joseph. And LT is the most important spot on the line if you have a RH QB.

Messner was unbelievably good against OSU.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

messner started the first game the year before over sims. the problem with cooper is that they said the same thing about joseph his freshman year, then he got injured. personally, i think we either need a grad assistant who knows OL or a miracle.

[NormanPride]

Well, Davin was a great Guard. He just couldn't get it done at Tackle. Plus, Cooper wasn't originally a DT.

Any way we can pull one of our 99-00 linemen out to tutor these kids? That would be nice...

[CtheB]

messner started the first game the year before over sims. the problem with cooper is that they said the same thing about joseph his freshman year, then he got injured. personally, i think we either need a grad assistant who knows OL or a miracle.

jkm, be careful. Your comments will disrupt the positive vibes the program needs to be successful.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Messner sucked. (Oh, sorry...hurrah, he was good against pathetic Okie State. Meahwhile, he had his butt handed to him against TCU, Tulsa, UCLA, Texas, etc. before that). The point is that Messner was no spring chicken out there, but played like it. It doesn't matter. He'll be back on the sideline watching Duke or Braxton if he doesn't get off his butt and learn to block consistently...in his fifth year!

And Davin Joseph wasn't the problem on the other side, it was Chaisson who was continually missing blocks...and getting penalties. Joseph's problem was Wilson moving him back and forth between tackle as guard and they tried to get Chaisson to pull his head out of his arse. Basically Joseph was having to block his assignment, and keep as much of a look out to Chaisson's guy as well since he'd decided to take his Senior year off mentally.

[Ruuuuuufus]

Messner allowed 1 sack in the last 8 games he started this year. He was our best OLineman down the stretch.

[NormanPride]

TDTW, did you actually watch Davin play? If he blocked anyone, I never saw it. Half the time, the defender would make one move and never break stride on the way to the QB. The other half of the time, he'd hold. That is TERRIBLE. Chaisson is not responsible for Davin whiffing guys, and Messner sure as hell isn't responsible for the 8 bagillion sacks the other guys allowed.

[Tear Down This Wall]

That doesn't mean anything. Does it show how many QB pressures he allowed? Does it show how the poor offensive line blocking led to us being ranked 33rd in rushing yards per game and 43th in rushing yards per carry?

Also, I could care less about what he did after the 2-3 start. One of the biggest causes of the 2-3 was the offensive line, full of seniors, and fourth year junior Messner, and letting people fly by them to the quarterback and ball carriers.

In a very crappy Big 12 in 2005, I would claim success by doing an above average job against league competition. TCU manhandled our OL. Ditto UCLA. Heck, even Tulsa gave those guys all they could handle until AD's foruth quarter TD!

Dude, any way yo slice it, our line sucked in 2005. If you want to believe Messner somehow sucked less, go ahead. I'll just be thankful to see him back on the sideline again in 2006.

[NormanPride]

Since when did the Big XII suck? I thought we disproved that nasty lie by going 5-3 in bowl games, with two of the losses coming on last second field goals.

Seriously, Messner was about the only guy that got his assignments right almost all the time. Ever wonder why he was the only one that didn't get shuffled around? That's because he was good at RT. The only reasons Davin wasn't benched was a) hype and 2) Rayl was in Stoops' doghouse-resembling structure.

[NickZeppelin]

The offensive line will be young and inexperienced. I do like that Cooper is back but outside of that it's a lot of inexperience.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I watched every game. Chaisson, Bush, Chester, and Messner were a human sieve. Like I said, Wilson made the mistake of moving Joseph from his real position. I don't blame Davin for that, I blame Wilson and Schmidt for running off nearly every other tackle recruited for four years.

Someone needs to repost the videos of the TCU game where the dude pushes through three or four blocks to pressure our QB. It was pathetic. Then the dude flat running by Messner and belting Bomar. It was the worst offensive line play I'd seen since 1996...and it continued until well into October.

[OUTrumpet]

In a very crappy Big 12 in 2005, I would claim success by doing an above average job against league competition. TCU manhandled our OL. Ditto UCLA. Heck, even Tulsa gave those guys all they could handle until AD's foruth quarter TD!

TCU was MWC champs, with their only loss coming the week after our game. Tulsa was C-USA champs. UCLA lost to USC and Arizona. And I seem to remember we had quite a bit of offense in the UCLA game as well. The Big 12 lost 3 bowl games, with the largest margin being CU by 10 points with having jack **** as their coaching staff.

Yes our o-line was not up to standards. But when you look how far they have come this year - from TCU to KU it was pretty shoddy at best - they really seemed to step up. But as for next year, we've had 4 guys that have played this year, Braxton, Robinson, Cooper, and Quinn that are incredibly young and have played well. I think we'll be fine next year after those guys really start Smitty's program.

[NickZeppelin]

TCU was a bad team. Or atleast the one that came to Norman was. They played nobody their entire season though. The only OOC team we played worth a crap was Oregon. Next year we play Oregon and Washington who are better then anyone we played OOC this year and UAB is probably about the same as Tulsa, or TCU.

[NickZeppelin]

TCU was a bad team. Or atleast the one that came to Norman was. They played nobody their entire season though. The only OOC team we played worth a crap was Oregon. Next year we play Oregon and Washington who are better then anyone we played OOC this year and UAB is probably about the same as Tulsa, or TCU.

[CincySooner]

Im sorry, but 2006 Washington will not be as good as 2005 UCLA.

[NickZeppelin]

Okay maybe not quite as good as this years UCLA team but I think this years UCLA team was overrated even though they beat us by 3 scores.

[mrowl]

TCU is a bad team that went 11-1, and beat Iowa State in a Bowl game.

Next year they will be a bad 12-1 team I guess. :rolleyes:

[NickZeppelin]

Who did they play? They were the same team that lost to SMU I belive.

[Jimminy Crimson]

shouldn't have been offensive linemen in the first place (Chester).

Tell that to the NFL


The only OOC team we played worth a crap was Oregon.

Tulsa was a respectable team

[NormanPride]

Yeah, our #1 schedule strength was crap. :rolleyes:

[Scott D]

I wasn't aware that Illinois was a foreign country.

[MiccoMacey]

I wasn't aware that Illinois was a foreign country.

People get that confused all the time.

Illinois is a foreign country. New Illinois is one of our 50 states.

You don't have to get a Visa to travel there. They accept Mastercard, too.



And TDTW, I don't know why you have a problem with stating Messner developed over the course of the year.

Yes, maybe he should have been better in our losses. Heck, he's a fourth year junior and should have been ready. He wasn't ready, and we sucked. Pick any of our lineman and that statement rings true as well for them.

But he did improve. And if you can't recognize people improving, then I'm not sure why you watch football. He got better as the season progressed. That statement doesn't take away from your statement that he sucked in the beginning.

[NickZeppelin]

If you also look at the schedule next year we play probably the tougher part of the North. Although all the teams are about the same. @Mizzou won't be easy but we also go to Stillwater and College Station. Places that we haven't played well in under Stoops. Then we still play Texas in Dallas which won't be easy.

[MiccoMacey]

At College Station will be tough, but I think I'd rather face this part of the North than either Nebraska or Kansas. Although I'd like another win in the win column with Kansas State.

Kansas beat ISU at the end, and Nebraska was on a tear after we beat them.

But playing in Stillwater doesn't scare me. We've lost only a few times in 30 years to them at Stillwater, and that was their best team in awhile (2002).

They'd have to show me that Gundy can REALLY improve them from last year for me to be worried about them.

[NickZeppelin]

Under Stoops we've won 12-7, and 38-35. Lost 38-28. Yep that's right OSU has outscored us by 2 in Stillwater since 2000. And they really haven't been that good any of those 3 years.

[CU Sooner]

It's apparent that some people quit watching after the 2-3 start, for those that did there is no denying that OL was much improved at the end. If you look at the last 3 or 4 games the OL dominated in the second half. That happens because of Schmitty and those players who want to stick around and become better.

[NickZeppelin]

The OL was better by the end of the year with the veterans getting healthy and playing more. Next year we will have 1 senior on the OL I believe

[CU Sooner]

And 4 players who had significant playing time. These guys don't have to guess about what the speed of the game is about, they have experienced it. They know what to expect and know what it takes to become better in the off-season.

[MiccoMacey]

38-35 (2003) year they went to the Alamo Bowl. Not a top ten team, but they were a good team.

And their is no proof Gundy can make these guys better than last year.

[TXBOOMER]

messner started the first game the year before over sims. the problem with cooper is that they said the same thing about joseph his freshman year, then he got injured. personally, i think we either need a grad assistant who knows OL or a miracle.

Joseph would have been good a right guard. A left tackle he is not. Based on the past success of this coaching staff, why are you always negative about them?

[CU Sooner]

38-35 (2003) year they went to the Alamo Bowl. Not a top ten team, but they were a good team.

And their is no proof Gundy can make these guys better than last year.


Plus we were saddled with little Bo Peepilini who fried our secndary's psyche, i don't remember too many breakdowns in the secondary this year compared to 03 and they will be even better this coming year.

[OU_Sooners75]

The offensive line will be young and inexperienced. I do like that Cooper is back but outside of that it's a lot of inexperience.


LMAO

do you even follow the team and the players we have?

honestly...I am not trying to be a downer, but you dont have a damn clue what you are talking about.

7 guys return that have played this year.
we will add 2 JUCO Olinemen, they have experience...JUCO is the Mini D-1A.
We have some good committments, there are truly the only inexperienced players we will have on the roster at Oline next year, besides one or 2 redshirts from this year.

Also, you do not need a lot of experience to come in to play OLine. As long as you know the assignments and you are good enough, strong enough, and have good footwork, that is all that really matters....Sure, the youth if they havent played at this speed will get ya. But the guys will catch on and gel... the biggest reason it didnt happen this year until about the last 3 games is because of injuries.

One of these days Nick, i may have you knowing what you are talking about.

[OU_Sooners75]

Who did they play? They were the same team that lost to SMU I belive.


When did that loss come? I forget...wasnt it after one of their biggest wins in school history?


I dont quite remember.


UCLA beat OU thanks to the ball hitting the ground 6-7 times and OU losing 3 of them.

Each score resulted in points....and get this mister know-nothing.....Those points totaled up to make 17 points....what was the final score again? 41-24....OH, a win margin of 17 points.

Do us all a favor and go back to D&D, it is probably the only thing you are good at doing.

[goingoneight]

Okay maybe not quite as good as this years UCLA team but I think this years UCLA team was overrated even though they beat us by 3 scores.

UCLA was down at one point by OU until Peterson hobbled away and Bomar started his little fumble-fest... Everytime he fumbled, they benefitted... Put OU team that played in the Holiday Bowl vs UCLA and score becomes...
OU 42 UCLA 35

[birddog]

you all should remember that there is a difference between run blocking and pass blocking. We couldn't open any holes for our backs at the beginning of the year. But Bomar and the young receivers not knowing what the hell they were doing was a MAJOR problem. Our receivers were running in lead shoes the first half of the year. Bomar was looking all day for someone to get open and the line could only hold them off for so long.
Ther improvements you saw in the line were due to an overall understanding of the offense and guys knowing their assignments.
Also, all of those CL bashers may say that the line was ineffective because the play calling was so predictable.

[NickZeppelin]

The playcalling was ineffective because we had no offensive line. When you don't have an OLine you can run any offense it won't be effective.

[birddog]

The playcalling was ineffective because we had no offensive line. When you don't have an OLine you can run any offense it won't be effective.
So you didn't see any improvement in the line?

[Rhino]

Before any of you get too high on Duke, I think it's between Moore, Messner and Braxton at tackle. Unless Duke drops 25-30 lbs...or moves to guard.

[stonecoldsoonerfan]

One of these days Nick, i may have you knowing what you are talking about.

this i gotta see...:eek:

[FaninAma]

What a downer of a thread. I don't know who's the most negtive among TDTW, jkm, and Nick Zepplin. I think I'll wait until I see the product he coaches put on the field next year before I push the panic button.

[NickZeppelin]

So you didn't see any improvement in the line?

It's too early to tell right now. They will be less experienced. The only for sure starter I see on the line that I am sure will be good is Cooper if he doesn't get hurt. The others are Sophomores and then there's Messner who's like 270 lbs.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Nick sure seems interested in a "Program that is done"