is it wrong of me to chuckle

[jk the sooner fan]

at the anti death penalty group who pushed for a DNA review of the man put to death in Virginia back in the 80's.....they're looking so hard for somebody wrongly put to death, so the govenor orders the DNA test

the results? guilty.........raped and murdered his sister in law

i dont know of a single PROVEN case of wrongful execution in this country.....not saying it hasnt happened

i do think however that any death penalty case should include DNA testing when possible

sorry tree huggers, i just had to laugh.....call me evil :P

[Okla-homey]

I guess my problem with it is the inconsistency with which the death penalty is applied. Poor and disadvantaged get death far more frequently than people who have means. IOW, too often, the punishment does not fit the crime. That kinda bugs me.

[jk the sooner fan]

punishment doesnt fit the crime? what crime is worse than murder?

and fwiw, the man put to death in this case was white.....

[sanantoniosooner]

The ONLY problem I have with the death penalty is the appeal process that allows them to live for 15-20 years and it ends up costing more to kill them than it would to lock them up for the rest of their life.

The 'deterent' value goes WAY down when people don't pay the price for decades.

[sooner_born_1960]

I think Homey was saying that too often wealthy murderers don't get the death penalty. If not, I'll let that stand as my position.

[Okla-homey]

punishment doesnt fit the crime? what crime is worse than murder?

and fwiw, the man put to death in this case was white.....

I'm just saying that if you look at death row demographics, you see mostly poor people. Not to say those people don't deserve their punishment, but we have a system in this country in which people who have the money to hire decent counsel get death far less than people who must rely on a PD -- even when both are convicted of the same crime.

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm just saying that if you look at death row demographics, you see mostly poor people. Not to say those people don't deserve their punishment, but we have a system in this country in which people who have the money to hire decent counsel get death far less than people who must rely on a PD.

have you ever compared the death row demographics to the demographics in the rest of the prison?

[Okla-homey]

have you ever compared the death row demographics to the demographics in the rest of the prison?

Sure. Poor people are more likely to get prison and serve longer sentences too. That's just the way it is. I don't know how too fix it. Please don't construe that to think I'm soft on crime either, I just wish the system was more equitable. In a more just system, the Menendez brothers would be just as likely to get a death sentence as some kid from a trailer park in Winslow Arizona who brutally murdered his parents.

Exhibit 1: that hawt young blonde school teacher in Florida who was deemed "Too pretty for prison." I expect if she had been poor, she would have gone to jail on conviction of doing a thirteen y/o kid.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Sure. Poor people are more likely to get prison and serve longer sentences too. That's just the way it is. I don't know how too fix it. Please don't construe that to think I'm soft on crime either, I just wish the system was more equitable. In a more just system, the Menendez brothers would be just as likely to get a death sentence as some kid from a trailer park in Winslow Arizona who brutally murdered his parents.

Exhibit 1: that hawt young blonde school teacher in Florida who was deemed "Too pretty for prison." I expect if she had been poor, she would have gone to jail on conviction of doing a thirteen y/o kid.The hawt young teacher probably WILL go to prison...it is still in litigation and her court date is approaching.

[jk the sooner fan]

not sure what it is elsewhere, but here are the death row demographics in texas (http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/racial.htm)

white - 30.5%
black - 41.2%
hispanic - 27.3%
other - 1%

[OklahomaTrombone]

jk - your stand on demographics as it relates to wealth intrest me.

Are you saying they're aren't as many poor white people in this country as there are poor black people?

[jk the sooner fan]

huh?

[GDC]

I'm just saying that if you look at death row demographics, you see mostly poor people.

If you watch Cops you see mostly poor people.

[1stTimeCaller]

IMO, if I were convicted of 1st Degree murder and I knew I did it, I would rather get the needle within a month of being in prison. I think being locked away for years and the strong possibility of losing my anal virginity is much worse than falling asleep and never waking up.

[Okieflyer]

I guess my problem with it is the inconsistency with which the death penalty is applied. Poor and disadvantaged get death far more frequently than people who have means. IOW, too often, the punishment does not fit the crime. That kinda bugs me.

Your absolutley right! We need to put to death more rich and advantaged killers. That's where the problem is.

[OUDoc]

strong possibility of losing my anal virginity
Prude.

[jk the sooner fan]

this is a man who was on the cover of time magazine, the pope pleaded for mercy, he was featured on 2 nightline shows, his last words were "the commonwealth of virginia is about to murder an innocent man"

ummm yeah.....he raped his sister in law, stabbed her to death (nearly beheade her)

i'd say the punishment fit the crime in this case

[Harry Beanbag]

Everyone on death row is innocent if you ask them.

[soonerbrat]

at the anti death penalty group who pushed for a DNA review of the man put to death in Virginia back in the 80's.....they're looking so hard for somebody wrongly put to death, so the govenor orders the DNA test

the results? guilty.........raped and murdered his sister in law

i dont know of a single PROVEN case of wrongful execution in this country.....not saying it hasnt happened

i do think however that any death penalty case should include DNA testing when possible

sorry tree huggers, i just had to laugh.....call me evil :P

why did he agree to the DNA test? Doesn't he have a say in the matter?

[jk the sooner fan]

no he's dead, he was put to death in 92

the weird thing is that the Virginia Supreme Court denied the request for a DNA test prior to his death.....that i totally disagree with......they should always do the test if they have the samples.......so the govenor, who is a pro death democrat on the way out of office, ordered the test to determine if they had indeed put an innocent man to death

[soonerbrat]

ah, so they wanted to know so they could sue for wrongful death or something.

[soonerbrat]

you have to explain these things to me...i AM blonde, you know.

[JohnnyMack]

the strong possibility of losing my anal virginity

Hello? Are we in a time machine? Did you get here in a Delorean doing 88 mph?

:dean:Why do you keep our love a secret?/:dean:

[jk the sooner fan]

no, i dont think it had so much to do with a wrongful death lawsuit, its just that the opponents of the death penatly tried to use this guy as "the face" for their views....and i think the govenor probably trying to be fair to both sides, ordered it to put an end to the speculation

my chuckle is directed at the crowd putting all their eggs in the basket of a guy they really didnt know was innocent or guilty....they just took his word that he was innocent

[C&CDean]

Sure. Poor people are more likely to get prison and serve longer sentences too. That's just the way it is. I don't know how too fix it. Please don't construe that to think I'm soft on crime either, I just wish the system was more equitable. In a more just system, the Menendez brothers would be just as likely to get a death sentence as some kid from a trailer park in Winslow Arizona who brutally murdered his parents.

Exhibit 1: that hawt young blonde school teacher in Florida who was deemed "Too pretty for prison." I expect if she had been poor, she would have gone to jail on conviction of doing a thirteen y/o kid.

Homey,

I see this as an opportunity for you. I believe you're in law school, right? The reason so many poor people get stiffer sentences is because they can't afford decent legal rep, right? Lawyers have the much deserved reputation for being blood sucking leeches, right?

Solution: Be the first lawyer to go to work for minimum wage. Or gratis to the poor. Oh wait, there's already some of these people out there who think they can change the world/system. Most of them get laughed out of court. Every judge out there is a lawyer. They all know that $$ talks. It's become the MO in the legal world. The more you can charge, the more cred you've got. If you can afford to hire F. Lee and the ghost of Johnny C, you ain't going to prison. Doesn't matter if you slash your wife and her boyfriend to death, and leave all kinds of DNA laying around. You ain't going down.

So, if people are gonna whine about poor people not getting a fair shake there's only one place they can direct their angst towards. The bar. Nowhere else. Not R's, not D's, not whites, and not even "the man." John Q. Lawyer, JD is to blame.

[Okla-homey]

Homey,

I see this as an opportunity for you. I believe you're in law school, right? The reason so many poor people get stiffer sentences is because they can't afford decent legal rep, right? Lawyers have the much deserved reputation for being blood sucking leeches, right?

Solution: Be the first lawyer to go to work for minimum wage. Or gratis to the poor. Oh wait, there's already some of these people out there who think they can change the world/system. Most of them get laughed out of court. Every judge out there is a lawyer. They all know that $$ talks. It's become the MO in the legal world. The more you can charge, the more cred you've got. If you can afford to hire F. Lee and the ghost of Johnny C, you ain't going to prison. Doesn't matter if you slash your wife and her boyfriend to death, and leave all kinds of DNA laying around. You ain't going down.

So, if people are gonna whine about poor people not getting a fair shake there's only one place they can direct their angst towards. The bar. Nowhere else. Not R's, not D's, not whites, and not even "the man." John Q. Lawyer, JD is to blame.

I'm not whining about it Dean. I'm just stating its a fact of life. I also agree with much of what you're saying here.
One absolute I learned thirty years ago:
Life is shiite sandwich. The more bread you got, the less shiite you gotta eat.

IMHO, OJ walked because he had the bucks to hire Johhny Cochran AND pay for everything Cochran needed to do in order to get him off. If the same crime were committed by some kicker from Osage County, he'd be in Big Mac today.

I'm not going to change that. No one can. It costs a lot of many to put on a vigorous defense of a crook, especially a filthy animal. Forensics is expensive, experts are expensive, legal research tools are expensive, heck, it practically costs money to breathe in court. Homer T. Schmedlapp from the rural route out near Eufala doesn't have the money to pay for that -- irrespective of whether his lawyer's fees are ripping him a new arsehole or not.

Its just the way our system is. That said, I have a problem with a system that kills some filthy animals and only locks others up. Until we clear that up, perhaps we should consider, simply locking up the filthy animals instead of mostly only killing the poor filthy animals. For me, the debate is not whether a filthy animal deserves to die, its about the fact that death deserving well-heeled filthy animals usually don't.

For the record, I'm willing to predict, capital punishment will cease in this country within the next 10-20 years forever, for precisely that reason. It already has in just about every other western democracy.

[In Through The Out Door]

Sure. Poor people are more likely to get prison and serve longer sentences too. That's just the way it is. I don't know how too fix it. Please don't construe that to think I'm soft on crime either, I just wish the system was more equitable. In a more just system, the Menendez brothers would be just as likely to get a death sentence as some kid from a trailer park in Winslow Arizona who brutally murdered his parents.

Exhibit 1: that hawt young blonde school teacher in Florida who was deemed "Too pretty for prison." I expect if she had been poor, she would have gone to jail on conviction of doing a thirteen y/o kid.

You're talking about two very different judicial jurisdictions: California, where the queers and bleeding hearts run the state and criminals get coddled, and Arizona, where the judges actually enforce the law and criminals get punished.

[C&CDean]

So, I guess the question one must ask is "why in the hell do you wanna be a lawyer?" If it's just been a lifelong dream/ambition/goal to complete law school then I find that very honorable. However, I just find it hard to understand what the people who are lawyers out there find so compelling about practicing law in our jacked-up legal system. Phil? TU? Soonerus?

[Hatfield]

a site with info relating to this subject.

http://www.justicedenied.org/executed.htm

[Hatfield]

1845 John Gordon was executed in Rhode Island. He was later found to be innocent.

oopsie.

[jk the sooner fan]

1845.....wow

going back to something recent and new, good job!

[C&CDean]

1845 John Gordon was executed in Rhode Island. He was later found to be innocent.

oopsie.

Suggestion: Lay off the cheap-assed .89 burritos from 7-11. They're giving you drain bamage.

[picasso]

If you watch Cops you see mostly poor people.
what's your point bro?

[Okla-homey]

So, I guess the question one must ask is "why in the hell do you wanna be a lawyer?" If it's just been a lifelong dream/ambition/goal to complete law school then I find that very honorable. However, I just find it hard to understand what the people who are lawyers out there find so compelling about practicing law in our jacked-up legal system. Phil? TU? Soonerus?

Okay, this is going to prolly sound trite, but here goes. Yes to the second sentence. Here's the dealio. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an AF officer and fly jets. I accomplished that.

While doing that, I went to alot of places, including many places tourists wouldn't wanna go. Those places are mostly crapholes. In my mind, the reason they are crapholes is because they have no rule of law or concept of judicial review. See, the Constitution is one of the most incredibly brilliant documents ever penned because it includes the notion that a seperate judiciary has the power to review and indeed nullify both executive and legislative acts.

It cannot be understated, that is flippin' HUGE!. It existed no other place on the planet when the drafters of the Constitution structured the system that way, and too damn few today. IMHO, the places that are still crapholes are that way mostly because they have not incorporated that concept into their system of government. Thus, becoming a tiny, miniscule part of that legal sytem is where I decided to head -- especially since I had half my working life left and could do it in the greatest state in the greatest country on Earth.

[jk the sooner fan]

i had a strong desire to go to law school after retiring last year, but did not have the $$ to live on while going to school for 3 years......

so hats off to Homey for being able to make it, i think its awesome

[Hatfield]

Suggestion: Lay off the cheap-assed .89 burritos from 7-11. They're giving you drain bamage.


you dispute the claim that in 1845 John Gordon was executed by hanging in Rhode Island and was later found to be innocent thus leading to the end of the death penalty in RI?

maybe you need to eat more cheap *** burritos...or at least check into something before you insinuate someone has brain damage.

because as usual...I am right.

[Hatfield]

1845.....wow

going back to something recent and new, good job!

Oh in your first post you claimed you weren't aware of any....so you would rather I not provide you with one so you can keep your inaccurate opinion?

[picasso]

great example Hatty.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

In 1845, they would have killed Dean for his burrito comment because making words appear on a device would have been witch craft....get the rope Earl ;)

[Okla-homey]

In 1845, they would have killed Dean for his burrito comment because making words appear on a device would have been witch craft....get the rope Earl ;)

Unless he sank, because as the Monty Python players taught us all, witches are made of wood and wood floats.:D

[C&CDean]

Okay, this is going to prolly sound trite, but here goes. Yes to the second sentence. Here's the dealio. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an AF officer and fly jets. I accomplished that.

While doing that, I went to alot of places, including many places tourists wouldn't wanna go. Those places are mostly crapholes. In my mind, the reason they are crapholes is because they have no rule of law or concept of judicial review. See, the Constitution is one of the most incredibly brilliant documents ever penned because it includes the notion that a seperate judiciary has the power to review and indeed nullify both executive and legislative acts.

It cannot be understated, that is flippin' HUGE!. It existed no other place on the planet when the drafters of the Constitution structured the system that way, and too damn few today. IMHO, the places that are still crapholes are that way mostly because they have not incorporated that concept into their system of government. Thus, becoming a tiny, miniscule part of that legal sytem is where I decided to head -- especially since I had half my working life left and could do it in the greatest state in the greatest country on Earth.

You. Go. Boy.

Seriously. We need to have a Homey party when you graduate.

[jk the sooner fan]

i forgot that DNA and all the other modern forensic technologies were available back in 1845....

please forgive me because your example, while accurate, is just overwhelmingly on topic

[TexasLidig8r]

For me, the debate is not whether a filthy animal deserves to die, its about the fact that death deserving well-heeled filthy animals usually don't.



I'm trying to start up a cottage industry wherein I only represent well-heeled filthy animal serial murderers.... But.... I can't exactly find a large clientele base.

To argue a rabbit trail point, when you have a well-heeled person accused of a heinous crime, isn't the D.A. much more likely to roll out the full court press, put his big dog prosecutors on the case, spare no expense to further his own political and personal agenda?

You have John Q. 6th Grade Drop Out who kills fellow John Q. Drop Out in a drug buy gone bad.. no tears are shed and the D.A. gets a quick murder conviction, no fuss no muss.

But, you have Peter Preppie who graduates Highland Park H.S. and OU who kills Trixie the Sweetie Pie... then, the press is all over it, the DA is all over it and the game is on.

What is the socio-economic break down of cons convicted of murder? I doubt you are going to find many millionaires in that demographic.

[1stTimeCaller]

Hatfield, while true, your example is not accurate to the discussion at hand.

[C&CDean]

you dispute the claim that in 1845 John Gordon was executed by hanging in Rhode Island and was later found to be innocent thus leading to the end of the death penalty in RI?

maybe you need to eat more cheap *** burritos...or at least check into something before you insinuate someone has brain damage.

because as usual...I am right.

No, I don't dispute the claim. I just don't give a **** and think your example is ridiculous.

Saying "they killed an innocent man in 1845 in RI" and trying to make it relevant to executing an innocent person in 2006 is just plain stupid. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's ignorant, but I can't. It's stoopid.

[Okla-homey]

I'm trying to start up a cottage industry wherein I only represent well-heeled filthy animal serial murderers.... But.... I can't exactly find a large clientele base.

To argue a rabbit trail point, when you have a well-heeled person accused of a heinous crime, isn't the D.A. much more likely to roll out the full court press, put his big dog prosecutors on the case, spare no expense to further his own political and personal agenda?

You have John Q. 6th Grade Drop Out who kills fellow John Q. Drop Out in a drug buy gone bad.. no tears are shed and the D.A. gets a quick murder conviction, no fuss no muss.

But, you have Peter Preppie who graduates Highland Park H.S. and OU who kills Trixie the Sweetie Pie... then, the press is all over it, the DA is all over it and the game is on.

What is the socio-economic break down of cons convicted of murder? I doubt you are going to find many millionaires in that demographic.

eggszellent points counselor.

[Hatfield]

dean did you read the first post?

Probably not....he said he wasn't aware of ANY.

are you suggesting that since it happened in 1845 it can't be included in the category of ANY? To me that is stoopid. Oh lookie it happened a long time ago so in fact it must not have happened? Is that what you are suggesting?

It was the only one on the top of my head and I didn't feel like doing a whole lot of research.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Now Now, not much has changed....in 1845 they drove cars to work just like we did....rushed home to watch the next Episode of Lost....enjoyed their Indiana Jones DVD collection...times weren't much different then

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

FREE TOOKIE FREE TOOKIE!!!! He didn't do it either ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

dean did you read the first post?

Probably not....he said he wasn't aware of ANY.

are you suggesting that since it happened in 1845 it can't be included in the category of ANY? To me that is stoopid. Oh lookie it happened a long time ago so in fact it must not have happened? Is that what you are suggesting?

It was the only one on the top of my head and I didn't feel like doing a whole lot of research.


Here's some more ammo for ya Hatfield. The 19 people executed in 1600s New England for witchcraft were innocent as well.


:)

[picasso]

dean did you read the first post?

Probably not....he said he wasn't aware of ANY.

are you suggesting that since it happened in 1845 it can't be included in the category of ANY? To me that is stoopid. Oh lookie it happened a long time ago so in fact it must not have happened? Is that what you are suggesting?

It was the only one on the top of my head and I didn't feel like doing a whole lot of research.
please. I honestly thought he was being funny, apparently not.

hell, if we're going back that far let's open up the Native American discussion.:cool:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I hear some slaves may have bitten the bullet unfairly around this time as well ;)

[Hatfield]

or we could just continue to throw out statements with no basis in fact and criticize those that show what we are saying is actually incorrect.

that makes more sense.

[Okla-homey]

Here's some more ammo for ya Hatfield. The 19 people executed in 1600s New England for witchcraft were innocent as well.


:)

I'm also fairly certain that everyone who was ever hanged for stealing a horse in this country did'nt deserve to die. Jail? Sure. Getting their neck stretched, not so much.

[C&CDean]

dean did you read the first post?

Probably not....he said he wasn't aware of ANY.

are you suggesting that since it happened in 1845 it can't be included in the category of ANY? To me that is stoopid. Oh lookie it happened a long time ago so in fact it must not have happened? Is that what you are suggesting?

It was the only one on the top of my head and I didn't feel like doing a whole lot of research.

I used to accuse jk of being the most literal poster around here. Uncapable of reading between the lines. I now give you that honor.

Yes Hatfield, there have been innocent people executed in this country. It has happened. Right here, in the U.S.A. No dispute. Is that clear enough for you?

Now that we've cleared that up, what I'm saying is that being anti-death penalty based on the argument that we might accidently put someone to death who is innocent just doesn't fly with me. We've got the technology, the forensics, etc. to be 99.99% sure 99.99% of the time. And I can live with the probability of error. Besides, we all gotta die someday, right?

[picasso]

or we could just continue to throw out statements with no basis in fact and criticize those that show what we are saying is actually incorrect.

that makes more sense.
heh.

[Okla-homey]

Dean-o,

You're gonna love this. Its from my Criminal law casebook here in law skool.

The following is a verbatim transcript of a sentence imposed upon a defendant convicted of murder in the Federal District Court of the Territory of New Mexico many years ago by a United States Judge named Kirby Benedict, sitting at Taos in an adobe stable used as a temporary courtroom. Note: there is some dispute as to whether these were his exact words, but its pretty cool nonetheless:


"Jose Manuel Miguel Xavier Gonzales, in a few short weeks it will be spring. The snows of winter will flee away, the ice will vanish, and the air will become soft and balmy. In short, Jose Manuel Miguel Xavier Gonzales, the annual miracle of the years will awaken and come to pass, but you won't be there.

The rivulet will run its soaring course to the sea, the timid desert flowers will put forth their tender shoots, the glorious valleys of this imperial domain will blossom as the rose. Still, you won't be here to see.

From every tree top some wild woods songster will carol his mating song, butterflies will sport in the sunshine, the busy bee will hum happy as it pursues its accustomed vocation, the gentle breeze will tease the tassels of the wild grasses, and all nature, Jose Manuel Miguel Xavier Gonzales, will be glad, but you. You won't be here to enjoy it because I command the Sheriff or some other officer of the country to lead you out to some remote spot, swing you by the neck from a knotting bough of some sturdy oak, and let you hang until you are dead.

And then, Jose Manuel Miguel Xavier Gonzales, I further command that such officer or officers retire quickly from your dangling corpse, that vultures may descend from the heavens upon your filthy body until nothing shall remain but bare, bleached bones of a cold-blooded, copper-colored, blood-thirsty, throat- cutting, chili-eating, sheep-herding, murdering son-of-a-bitch."

United States of America v. Gonzales (1881), United States District Court, New Mexico Territory Sessions

[jk the sooner fan]

thanks dean, i was having a hard time getting credit or job interviews with that monkey you had put on my back

its friday the 13th and my LUCK IS GONNA CHANGE!!!

[Hatfield]

dean i wasn't commenting on the social ills or mores of the death penalty. A poster commented on not being aware of any. I responded to that 1 claim...not to the substance of the rest of his post. Requires no reading between the lines.

i take your label and cast it to the ground...while mightly stamping on it in defiance.

keep it up and risk a figure four leglock complete with iron claw.

[Stanley1]

you dispute the claim that in 1845 John Gordon was executed by hanging in Rhode Island and was later found to be innocent thus leading to the end of the death penalty in RI?

maybe you need to eat more cheap *** burritos...or at least check into something before you insinuate someone has brain damage.

because as usual...I am right.

Maybe he did something else that he deserved to die for? That'd be my guess. :rolleyes: :D

[C&CDean]

dean i wasn't commenting on the social ills or mores of the death penalty. A poster commented on not being aware of any. I responded to that 1 claim...not to the substance of the rest of his post. Requires no reading between the lines.

i take your label and cast it to the ground...while mightly stamping on it in defiance.

keep it up and risk a figure four leglock complete with iron claw.

Dude, that's kinky. Would it be inappropriate to say your last sentence gave me wood?

[C&CDean]

Dean-o,

You're gonna love this. Its from my Criminal law casebook here in law skool.

The following is a verbatim transcript of a sentence imposed upon a defendant convicted of murder in the Federal District Court of the Territory of New Mexico many years ago by a United States Judge named Kirby Benedict, sitting at Taos in an adobe stable used as a temporary courtroom. Note: there is some dispute as to whether these were his exact words, but its pretty cool nonetheless:

My kinda judge. After you become a judge I want you to use the same lines when sentencing your first murderer to death. You would so be my hero.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

The even cooler thing was that he was convicted of stealing a stamp to mail a letter to his sick child in Tijiuana ;)

[Mjcpr]

dean i wasn't commenting on the social ills or mores of the death penalty. A poster commented on not being aware of any. I responded to that 1 claim...not to the substance of the rest of his post. Requires no reading between the lines.

Oh, noooo, I'm so sorry. It's the "moops". The correct answer is, the "moops".

[TexasLidig8r]

Dean-o,

You're gonna love this. Its from my Criminal law casebook here in law skool.

The following is a verbatim transcript of a sentence imposed upon a defendant convicted of murder in the Federal District Court of the Territory of New Mexico many years ago by a United States Judge named Kirby Benedict, sitting at Taos in an adobe stable used as a temporary courtroom. Note: there is some dispute as to whether these were his exact words, but its pretty cool nonetheless:

If he could've afforded me, I would have been able to have his sentence reduced to involuntary manslaughter with time served. ;)

In the midst of this little thread somewhere, the question was posed to Homey.. why go to law school? His answer was gratifying to see.

It seems that too many kids today are going to law school, not for some noble purpose, not because of a love of the law, not because they see that in becoming an attorney, you participate in a system of laws and government better than any in the history of the civilized world.. but as a means to make money. We are putting out an industry where the profession of law has become the business of law.

Rules and procedures are becoming increasingly complex and detailed not for the betterment of the law, but to reign in those who take short cuts, who use deceit and dishonesty as their tools of their profession, instead of industry and integrity and intelligence.

Young lawyers today for the most part, are technically good, but many, lack that certain higher calling.. it's comparable to being able to "play the notes," but NOT be able to "make the music."

[royalfan5]

If he could've afforded me, I would have been able to have his sentence reduced to involuntary manslaughter with time served. ;)

In the midst of this little thread somewhere, the question was posed to Homey.. why go to law school? His answer was gratifying to see.

It seems that too many kids today are going to law school, not for some noble purpose, not because of a love of the law, not because they see that in becoming an attorney, you participate in a system of laws and government better than any in the history of the civilized world.. but as a means to make money. We are putting out an industry where the profession of law has become the business of law.

Rules and procedures are becoming increasingly complex and detailed not for the betterment of the law, but to reign in those who take short cuts, who use deceit and dishonesty as their tools of their profession, instead of industry and integrity and intelligence.

Young lawyers today for the most part, are technically good, but many, lack that certain higher calling.. it's comparable to being able to "play the notes," but NOT be able to "make the music."
That's the exact reason I spent a year in Law School. My undergraduate advisors and most of my family pushed me towards law school because of the limited potential of a Poli Sci and Religon undergrad degree. I went along with it because I saw dollar signs and my body of academic work and standardized testing indicated I would be well suited for it. I hated every second of it, not because it was hard but because I really didn't want to be there. I had no passion for it, so I got the hell out of there and accepted the money I spent on a year of law school was a sunk cost and moved on. I had realized I wanted a career in Agriculture, and I started pursuing that and couldn't be happier. I know a lot of people in my class and one of my close friends that are in law school are doing it soley for the money and are completely misearble, and thankfully I'm not in that boat anymore.

[Hatfield]

Dude, that's kinky. Would it be inappropriate to say your last sentence gave me wood?


ummm...you better be talking about some sort of table match :mack:

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Nightline did a story on the guy who runs Crusader Ministries. They were with him when he got the call with the results. He was shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that the guy had lied to him.

He also said he was told by a reliable source that gullible is not in the dictionary.

[OhU1]

I laughed when I saw the results. I remember this guy and all the spin that he was innocent. I never bought it.

I'm friends with a lot of abolistionists and we used to debate the DP frequently. Some of the more naive of these people believe these death row con men's false claims of innocence. The anti-DP groups do a good job of spinning the facts and leaving out the incriminating evidence and circumstances that don't fit their pity pleas.

Coleman went to his death claiming he was innocent. He was a celebrity cause and on the cover of Time magazine in 1992. He was on several talk shows. He convinced a lot of people he was innocent.

Tookie also went to his death claiming he didn't do it. Snoop Dog said he believed "the brother didn't do it". Tookie did do it. The least he could have done was be a man and admit it.

[Harry Beanbag]

Of course now we have a prime time melodrama propaganda vehicle that is apparently based on innocent condemned inmates and the heroic fight to free them. :rolleyes:

I will admit I haven't watched it, and I don't plan to.

[TUSooner]

So, I guess the question one must ask is "why in the hell do you wanna be a lawyer?" If it's just been a lifelong dream/ambition/goal to complete law school then I find that very honorable. However, I just find it hard to understand what the people who are lawyers out there find so compelling about practicing law in our jacked-up legal system. Phil? TU? Soonerus?

I had no useful skills?
Because it was there?
I was misinformed?

I'm still working on that one. :D

[mdklatt]

Of course now we have a prime time melodrama propaganda vehicle that is apparently based on innocent condemned inmates and the heroic fight to free them.

It's just like Hollywood to try to make us believe that only guilty people should stay locked up!

:confused:

[TUSooner]

Okay, this is going to prolly sound trite, but here goes. Yes to the second sentence. Here's the dealio. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an AF officer and fly jets. I accomplished that.

While doing that, I went to alot of places, including many places tourists wouldn't wanna go. Those places are mostly crapholes. In my mind, the reason they are crapholes is because they have no rule of law or concept of judicial review. See, the Constitution is one of the most incredibly brilliant documents ever penned because it includes the notion that a seperate judiciary has the power to review and indeed nullify both executive and legislative acts.

It cannot be understated, that is flippin' HUGE!. It existed no other place on the planet when the drafters of the Constitution structured the system that way, and too damn few today. IMHO, the places that are still crapholes are that way mostly because they have not incorporated that concept into their system of government. Thus, becoming a tiny, miniscule part of that legal sytem is where I decided to head -- especially since I had half my working life left and could do it in the greatest state in the greatest country on Earth.
I have one problem with that: You misspelled "separate." ;) Other than that, it's great. That bit about the judicial system is why I truly love working for the courts. I don't have to win the game; I have to "get it right."

[TUSooner]

Here's a link.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/01/12/dna.execution.ap/

They ought to dig that pukey, lyin' mofo up and electrocute him AGAIN.

[jk the sooner fan]

I have one problem with that: You misspelled "separate." ;) Other than that, it's great. That bit about the judicial system is why I truly love working for the courts. I don't have to win the game; I have to "get it right."

well now i dont feel so bad about the whole courts-martial/courts-martials thing......

[Harry Beanbag]

It's just like Hollywood to try to make us believe that only guilty people should stay locked up!

:confused:


So you don't think the very existence of that show is politically motivated?

[mdklatt]

So you don't think the very existence of that show is politically motivated?

TV shows are motivated by one thing: ratings. It's only political to the extent that it's trying to take advantage of the Left vs. Right ****ing contest du jour.

[Dio]

So, if people are gonna whine about poor people not getting a fair shake there's only one place they can direct their angst towards. The bar. Nowhere else. Not R's, not D's, not whites, and not even "the man." John Q. Lawyer, JD is to blame.

Why do you hate Lid?