And Speaking of HD TV

[Pieces Hit]

I have an older 53'' Mitsubishi 1080i HD tv.

But it only displays at like 480i but I can configure it to 720p, (i may have the p's and i's in the wrong place) but even when set on 720p (or i) the on-screen component display shows it is 480i.

So I'm thinking I got ripped off because I thought I bought a HD tv.

Any of you tech people know what the deal is or what I would have to do to actually get 720p or 1080i on my DVD's?

My satellite I figure is just what it is without the HD receiver but DVD's would be nice in HD.

Help is appreciated as I am dumb.

[Frozen Sooner]

Your DVDs are not formatted in 720p or 1080i. About the best you're going to get is 480p.

[85Sooner]

DVD's are not recorded in high definition. HD DVD and Blue ray will be out later this year. Only one problem. No software.

I anticipate one of two things happening in this regard.

1. All dvd's will start to be manufactured in HD

2. The studios will decide that the production costs will be too much and will only put selected titles in hd. If this happens it will be like DAT, super audio and dvd audio. Rare and eventually gone.

[Pieces Hit]

So what is 720 and 1080 or HD good for in my situation?

(insert smarty pants comment here)

[oumartin]

absolutely nothing it appears buddy.
But don't worry cuz you get to look at a big picture!

[Pieces Hit]

It looks plenty good too but I keep thinking it's supposed to look "better".

It's a psychological thing I guess.

[mdklatt]

So what is 720 and 1080 or HD good for in my situation?



Video games and HD programming on TV.

[oumartin]

yip.
I've put off buying a hdtv big screen for 2 years now and I have decided to bite the bullet. We just bought a new house and I'm gonna have it delivered there when we start moving. But thinking like you about the High Def part of it I am going with a cheaper 51". I figure since I dont' have HD satelite why bother spending more than I can actually afford for something I probably won't be able to see a difference in.

[85Sooner]

yip.
I've put off buying a hdtv big screen for 2 years now and I have decided to bite the bullet. We just bought a new house and I'm gonna have it delivered there when we start moving. But thinking like you about the High Def part of it I am going with a cheaper 51". I figure since I dont' have HD satelite why bother spending more than I can actually afford for something I probably won't be able to see a difference in.


you will see a difference and BTW as of July 31,2005 All televisions 36" and larger must have an ATSC tuner on board (read HDTV tuner) so if your trying to find an analog tv you may be SOL or it will be a really old model.

HDTV's upscale DVD's to their native resolution. Most Tv's today are Native 720p.
The SXRD technology are the "ONLY" ones with a true 1080p resolution.

THere are NO DLP's or DILA's that are that resolution no matter what they say on the spec sheet. so beware.

Also, don't buy the 720p/1080i dvd players they are a waste of money.

[Widescreen]

Also, don't buy the 720p/1080i dvd players they are a waste of money.
One scenario that it would be good to have a 720p dvd player is if the scaler in the player is better than the one in the TV.

[85Sooner]

One scenario that it would be good to have a 720p dvd player is if the scaler in the player is better than the one in the TV.


true.

[oilmud]

85SOONER,
What do you know about this Sony FWD50PX2/S?

[oumartin]

pft. its nothing compared to the Sanyo! :D

[85Sooner]

85SOONER,
What do you know about this Sony FWD50PX2/S?


Its an old commercial plasma display, made before sony quit the plasma market.

Not a Good choice in my opinion.

[oilmud]

Its an old commercial plasma display, made before sony quit the plasma market.

Not a Good choice in my opinion.




I've got a 52" wide built in cabinet, what is the best tv for that space in your opinion.

Thanks in advance.


52" opening that is

[Mjcpr]

52" opening that is

Are you Courtney Love?

[Pieces Hit]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mjcpr again.

[oilmud]

Are you Courtney Love?



No but we dated once or twice.

[49r]

Movie rentals will drive the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray development in the beginning. Once a standard is agreed upon, people will migrate towards the new hardware more and more.

[skycat]

The thing is, in the case of the two standards, there is no reason that a company couldn't license both standards, and make a player that plays both. It could be just as transparent as all the different recordable/writable CD standards are now. And I suspect it will be.

[BeetDigger]

you will see a difference and BTW as of July 31,2005 All televisions 36" and larger must have an ATSC tuner on board (read HDTV tuner) so if your trying to find an analog tv you may be SOL or it will be a really old model.

HDTV's upscale DVD's to their native resolution. Most Tv's today are Native 720p.
The SXRD technology are the "ONLY" ones with a true 1080p resolution.

THere are NO DLP's or DILA's that are that resolution no matter what they say on the spec sheet. so beware.

Also, don't buy the 720p/1080i dvd players they are a waste of money.


Ok. There are times that I feel like I have a handle on technology and there is now.

What is a DILA?

What is SXRD technolgy?

What the heck is upscaling of native resolution?

Why would anyone want to find an analog TV?

Lastly, I have a Sony analog that can go is HD upgradeable. I understand this to mean that I just need a HD converter. I assume that this converter sits between the TV and the cable box. Am I correct? And what is the price of these converters?

I would ask a salesman these questions, but I am fearful of taking up the time of a guy on commission when I am 99% sure I am not going to buy at the momement. I don't want to waste his time becoming knowledgeable when I don't intend to buy (it's my way of being consciencious to the commision people of the world).

[85Sooner]

Ok. There are times that I feel like I have a handle on technology and there is now.

What is a DILA?

What is SXRD technolgy?

What the heck is upscaling of native resolution?

Why would anyone want to find an analog TV?

Lastly, I have a Sony analog that can go is HD upgradeable. I understand this to mean that I just need a HD converter. I assume that this converter sits between the TV and the cable box. Am I correct? And what is the price of these converters?


DILA Digital Image light amplifier. ORiginally developed for Flight simulators works like LCD 3 chips Red green blue, Light shines at the chips and is relected and passes through a prism (to reduce screen door effect and the image in reflected onto a screen that you can see.

Pro- Decent picture
Con- 2 recalls so far, no replacement bulb availability and little support from JVC.

SXRD- Sony's name for LCOS Liquid crystal on silicon. currently the only company to successfully produce a reliable 1920x1080 true high definition chip. Works like LCD but double the resolution.

Pros- the highest resolution, best picture for a rear projection available in 50,60 and 70 inch.

No cons but can be pricey a bit.


Upscaling or native resolution refers to the televisions ability to break down any incoming signal and reproduce it in its "native resolution" Number of pixels increase , picture quality follows the rule of garbage in, garbage out.

No one in their right mind would be looking for an analog TV IMO

I would ask a salesman these questions, but I am fearful of taking up the time of a guy on commission when I am 99% sure I am not going to buy at the momement. I don't want to waste his time becoming knowledgeable when I don't intend to buy (it's my way of being consciencious to the commision people of the world).


Thank you for your concern for the saleshelp. There are alot of folks who like to get the information from someone in the know then exploit it.

No one cares about service (or more importantly its value) until they need it.

[85Sooner]

oops something went haywire, but your answers are above.

[85Sooner]

The thing is, in the case of the two standards, there is no reason that a company couldn't license both standards, and make a player that plays both. It could be just as transparent as all the different recordable/writable CD standards are now. And I suspect it will be.


Yamaha and pioneer will probably do just that. Nevertheless there is still no incentive for the film maker to spend the extra production cost to create it. It will be awile before it really makes any highground and chances are more likely they will scerw it up or another technology will come along before then based on history.

[85Sooner]

I've got a 52" wide built in cabinet, what is the best tv for that space in your opinion.

Thanks in advance.


52" opening that is


KDFE 50A!0 sony LCD projector.

47.5 x 32.5 x 16.5 at 1997.00 would be what I would go with.

[85Sooner]

Movie rentals will drive the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray development in the beginning. Once a standard is agreed upon, people will migrate towards the new hardware more and more.


Sony will NEVER agree to HD-DVD and Toshiba will NEVER agree to Blu-ray.

It will be a repeat of the SACD/ DVDaudio fight

And how many of you use those?

[Getem]

The SXRD technology are the "ONLY" ones with a true 1080p resolution.

THere are NO DLP's or DILA's that are that resolution no matter what they say on the spec sheet. so beware.


False... All the major DLP players have 1080p sets. The HP and Samsung (maybe others) even go the SXRD one better by actually accepting 1080p sources.

SXRD cons:
No 1080p input
Poor VGA support
Muuuuugggglly side speakers

DLP vs SXRD picture quality is subjective. Here's a 1080p dlp that looks pretty good (from AVS forum member aaronwt): http://www.aaronwt.com/interest.htm

[soonerboomer93]

False... All the major DLP players have 1080p sets. The HP and Samsung (maybe others) even go the SXRD one better by actually accepting 1080p sources.

SXRD cons:
No 1080p input
Poor VGA support
Muuuuugggglly side speakers

DLP vs SXRD picture quality is subjective. Here's a 1080p dlp that looks pretty good (from AVS forum member aaronwt): http://www.aaronwt.com/interest.htm

you're about to get pwned when 85 replies

[oumartin]

i just bought me a 27" curtis mathis television in the rolling cabinet.
I am so stoked!
Surely this thing is HDTV.
Or at least Cable ready ;)

[85Sooner]

False... All the major DLP players have 1080p sets. The HP and Samsung (maybe others) even go the SXRD one better by actually accepting 1080p sources.

SXRD cons:
No 1080p input
Poor VGA support
Muuuuugggglly side speakers

DLP vs SXRD picture quality is subjective. Here's a 1080p dlp that looks pretty good (from AVS forum member aaronwt): http://www.aaronwt.com/interest.htm


Sorry but you are incorrect. The DLP's use wobulation to upscale their chips. THey are not (btw) cannot every be cut down to native 1920x1080.

(hint) thats why they cost less than the true 1080p sets.

Do some research and read the small print.

As far as no 1080P input that is correct. BTW do you know of a 1080p source. The 1080p resolution is simply to reduce the screen dorr effect seen on the larger tv's notice that there is nothing under 50" manufactured. The others are personal preferences. THere is not a DLP that will even come close to competeing with the SXRD apples fpr apples

[BeetDigger]

85 - thanks for your answers. One question that you overlooked: the HD converter for my TV, which is HD upgradeable. Where does it sit in relation to the TV and cable box and how much are they?

[Getem]

Sorry but you are incorrect. The DLP's use wobulation to upscale their chips. THey are not (btw) cannot every be cut down to native 1920x1080.

(hint) thats why they cost less than the true 1080p sets.

Do some research and read the small print.

As far as no 1080P input that is correct. BTW do you know of a 1080p source. The 1080p resolution is simply to reduce the screen dorr effect seen on the larger tv's notice that there is nothing under 50" manufactured. The others are personal preferences. THere is not a DLP that will even come close to competeing with the SXRD apples fpr apples

The wobulation means that each tiny mirror reflects 2 pixels. So what? You still get 1920x1080 distinct pixels on your screen. There's no "upscaling".

For 1080p sources, well, you're typing on one, if you have a recent decent video card. Also, it's possible the PS3 and future Blu-ray/HDDVD players will output 1080p.

Lots of videophiles have compared the two and some like DLP, some like the SXRD. I haven't compared the two side by side, so I won't say. My purpose here was to correct your mis-statement that there was no 1080p DLP. Plus, your Sony homerism bugs me a little bit.

[skycat]

Yamaha and pioneer will probably do just that. Nevertheless there is still no incentive for the film maker to spend the extra production cost to create it. It will be awile before it really makes any highground and chances are more likely they will scerw it up or another technology will come along before then based on history.

The only way that one or the other of these doesn't take off is if an iTunes like model of downloadable HD content takes off for video sources. Which is a possibility.

People are starting to spend too much money on their fancy HD displays not to have content that takes advantage of it. As more people compare a movie shown on HBOHD to a DVD of that same movie on larger screens, the demand for purchasable HD movies will rise. And the fact of the matter is that nearly every studio movie made already has a master lying around that will be able to supply a source for the higher resolution.

That wasn't really true for for digital audio.

[85Sooner]

The wobulation means that each tiny mirror reflects 2 pixels. So what? You still get 1920x1080 distinct pixels on your screen. There's no "upscaling".

For 1080p sources, well, you're typing on one, if you have a recent decent video card. Also, it's possible the PS3 and future Blu-ray/HDDVD players will output 1080p.

Lots of videophiles have compared the two and some like DLP, some like the SXRD. I haven't compared the two side by side, so I won't say. My purpose here was to correct your mis-statement that there was no 1080p DLP. Plus, your Sony homerism bugs me a little bit.


Get'em, YOU just proved the point that there are no 1080P DLP's Pixel sharing is NOT true resolution. Check the old ALIC Plasma panels, they did the same thing. You do not get distinct pixels. When pixel sharing, the pixel is doing one or the other, can't do both at the same time. Thats upscaling.

For true 1080P it would be one mirror=ONE PIXEL. For those in the computer industry, Glass cannot be cut down that far. Silicone can, thus the use of silicon in the chip industry. Liquid Crytal on Silicon can do it.


As far as content, you are right, gamers, people who want to use tv's for computer monitors etc.... Will like it but it still is not a true 1080p Display. Blue ray and HD DVD content has yet to be seen allthough I do know toshiba has a huge warehouse ful of HD DVD units that they are not shipping because there is currently no software.Incidently this is not my opinion it is the facts as stated by the engineers at samsung and toshiba.(Although they don't like to talk about it understandably. BTW believe me, i am not a sony homerist, you'll notice I did not recommend their plasma. In the past I never recommended Sony.However atthis time they have the best product for the lowest price.

I compare all of em side by side at nauseum daily.

[85Sooner]

The only way that one or the other of these doesn't take off is if an iTunes like model of downloadable HD content takes off for video sources. Which is a possibility.

People are starting to spend too much money on their fancy HD displays not to have content that takes advantage of it. As more people compare a movie shown on HBOHD to a DVD of that same movie on larger screens, the demand for purchasable HD movies will rise. And the fact of the matter is that nearly every studio movie made already has a master lying around that will be able to supply a source for the higher resolution.

That wasn't really true for for digital audio.


tHE QUESTION from my sources has been that they do not want to pay the extra manufacturing costs what ever they are. We will see very soon.

[85Sooner]

85 - thanks for your answers. One question that you overlooked: the HD converter for my TV, which is HD upgradeable. Where does it sit in relation to the TV and cable box and how much are they?


OK HD converters.

Cable companies provide them. Satellite providers sell them. Off the air converters are hard to find but Best buy or somewhere like that should have them for a couple hundred of dollars.

[Getem]

When pixel sharing, the pixel is doing one or the other, can't do both at the same time. Thats upscaling.


You mean the mirror? It DOES do both. It reflects one pixel, then shifts a little to reflect the next one. Yes this relies on the image retention properties of our eyes, but DLP has always been a little bit of a mind trick.

You send 1920x1080 from a computer to 1080p DLP, pull up a paint program and draw two lines each 1 pixel wide and different colors, and that is what you will see on the screen. How those pixels got there is irrelevant.

[soonerboomer93]

actually, how those pictures got there is completely relevant, because it's a matter of how the imagery is done. it's duplicating a single image, which means it's not true 1080p, and saying it is is like saying ED are the same as HD tv's.

[85Sooner]

You mean the mirror? It DOES do both. It reflects one pixel, then shifts a little to reflect the next one. Yes this relies on the image retention properties of our eyes, but DLP has always been a little bit of a mind trick.

You send 1920x1080 from a computer to 1080p DLP, pull up a paint program and draw two lines each 1 pixel wide and different colors, and that is what you will see on the screen. How those pixels got there is irrelevant.


Computer images are a whole different world. Most people I know buy them for the video from tv or dvd. Its called moving video and frame rate does have an effect.

[85Sooner]

must spread some rep before soonerboomer93

[Getem]

actually, how those pictures got there is completely relevant, because it's a matter of how the imagery is done. it's duplicating a single image, which means it's not true 1080p, and saying it is is like saying ED are the same as HD tv's.

Not the same at all. With ED the pixels just aren't there. Two or more pixels from a higher res source are averaged and mapped to 1 pixel on the ED display. This is not what happens with wobulated DLP. Each pixel is reflected distinctly on the screen.

[Mjcpr]

I think Okla-homey wobulated to bed about an hour ago.

[Getem]

Computer images are a whole different world. Most people I know buy them for the video from tv or dvd. Its called moving video and frame rate does have an effect.

Right, but DLP does it's trick fast enough for 1920x1080x60fps.

[Getem]

I think Okla-homey wobulated to bed about an hour ago.

Well, I matriculate to bed... but I sometimes wobulate in my sleep

[soonerboomer93]

Not the same at all. With ED the pixels just aren't there. Two or more pixels from a higher res source are averaged and mapped to 1 pixel on the ED display. This is not what happens with wobulated DLP. Each pixel is reflected distinctly on the screen.

actually it is the same. because ed takes sd and just doubles the pixels. double the pixels isn't providing true resolution, it's a parlor trick. they're simply duplicating a pixel, not creating a second one, which would give it the true resolution

[Cam]

85 is not a Sony homer by any means. I bought a Toshiba from him a few years back and until last month, he's been pimping me a Sharp LCD. Only when the Bravia came out did he say the Sony beat the Sharp.

Dude's not a brand whore. At least not IMO.

[85Sooner]

Right, but DLP does it's trick fast enough for 1920x1080x60fps.


If you love DLP, great. The fact is it is not a true 1080p display according to the engineers form the DLP companies. 196000 moving parts are not something that I prefer to deal with and many folks stikll see the rainbow effects.
That having been said, Go look at one next to the SXRD. On one you will see pixel movement and pixel frying, on the other you won't. The question is which one you want and/or can afford. SXRD is mre expecsive.

Best of luck.

[Getem]

actually it is the same. because ed takes sd and just doubles the pixels. double the pixels isn't providing true resolution, it's a parlor trick. they're simply duplicating a pixel, not creating a second one, which would give it the true resolution

No, you're talking about how ED displays a source that is not its native resolution. If you give ED a 720x480 source then you get 1 to 1 pixel mapping. If you give wobulated DLP a 1920x1080 source you get 1 to 1 pixel mapping. You seem to be implying that it just reflects the same pixel twice, but that is not true. One mirror, two different color pixels.

[85Sooner]

The wobulation means that each tiny mirror reflects 2 pixels. So what? You still get 1920x1080 distinct pixels on your screen. There's no "upscaling".

For 1080p sources, well, you're typing on one, if you have a recent decent video card. Also, it's possible the PS3 and future Blu-ray/HDDVD players will output 1080p.

Lots of videophiles have compared the two and some like DLP, some like the SXRD. I haven't compared the two side by side, so I won't say. My purpose here was to correct your mis-statement that there was no 1080p DLP. Plus, your Sony homerism bugs me a little bit.


Go check it out OK.

[Getem]

85 is not a Sony homer by any means. I bought a Toshiba from him a few years back and until last month, he's been pimping me a Sharp LCD. Only when the Bravia came out did he say the Sony beat the Sharp.

Dude's not a brand whore. At least not IMO.
Ok, I take it back. Maybe DLP-hater?


If you love DLP, great. The fact is it is not a true 1080p display according to the engineers form the DLP companies. 196000 moving parts are not something that I prefer to deal with and many folks stikll see the rainbow effects.
That having been said, Go look at one next to the SXRD. On one you will see pixel movement and pixel frying, on the other you won't. The question is which one you want and/or can afford. SXRD is mre expecsive.

Best of luck.

not 1080p according to DLP engineers.. link?
pixel movement and frying... if you are talking about the Samsung, go into the service menu and disable DNIe

I'm not married to DLP. If I was buying now, though, I'd probably stick with the Sammy. My HLM507 has served me well. In a few years, who knows...

[Getem]

Go check it out OK.

But, Best Buy doesn't have the 1080p dlps.

Who is high-end enough to carry both sets, AND let me move them next to each other, AND let me use the remote, AND let me turn DNIe off in the service menu, AND let me take pictures, AND not get mad at me for not buying after all that? ;)

[85Sooner]

But, Best Buy doesn't have the 1080p dlps.

Who is high-end enough to carry both sets, AND let me move them next to each other, AND let me use the remote, AND let me turn DNIe off in the service menu, AND let me take pictures, AND not get mad at me for not buying after all that? ;)


No one. BTW in my store they are together for that very reason. Guess which one sells 10-1 over the other?

[Getem]

No one. BTW in my store they are together for that very reason. Guess which one sells 10-1 over the other?

Like I'm going to take the word of a TV salesman :P

What store are we talking about, by the way

[85Sooner]

A&B TV in uh huh Austin texas.

[85Sooner]

Your Samsung HLN507 was one of the best at the time you got it. With LCD's at the time, the black levels still left alot to be desired.

LCD (sony) inparticular developed the cinema black and its been downhill for DLP's ever since.

As far as a Link Regarding the engineers acknowledgement that the TV's are not true 1080p, You may be able to find some but our knowlegdge has come through discussions with them./ No link there.