War in Iraq could cost us $2 Trillion

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html

I would rather have the money spent here at home, ya know on things like education, infrastructure, new oil refineries to reduce foreign dependence on oil, etc. but apparently I'm in the minority around here.

[C&CDean]

Yeah, wouldn't we all JM.

I'd also like to spend all the billions of $$ we waste on the arts, welfare, and deviant lifestyle programs on the same things. And then I'd like all the Hollywood fags and fagettes to donate 1/2 their ridiculous salaries to the same problems. And then the professional athletes. And then us common hard working joes oughta be taxed at least 75-80% to pay for this stuff too, but apparently I'm in the minority around here....

[Soonrboy]

What if Haliburton built playgrounds? Man, that'd be awesome.

[Pieces Hit]

What war?

[yermom]

could someone define "war" for me?

wasn't the "war" in Iraq over once the government was gone?

[usmc-sooner]

Yeah, wouldn't we all JM.

I'd also like to spend all the billions of $$ we waste on the arts, welfare, and deviant lifestyle programs on the same things. And then I'd like all the Hollywood fags and fagettes to donate 1/2 their ridiculous salaries to the same problems. And then the professional athletes. And then us common hard working joes oughta be taxed at least 75-80% to pay for this stuff too, but apparently I'm in the minority around here....

I second that

[JohnnyMack]

Yeah, wouldn't we all JM.

I'd also like to spend all the billions of $$ we waste on the arts, welfare, and deviant lifestyle programs on the same things. And then I'd like all the Hollywood fags and fagettes to donate 1/2 their ridiculous salaries to the same problems. And then the professional athletes. And then us common hard working joes oughta be taxed at least 75-80% to pay for this stuff too, but apparently I'm in the minority around here....

What does what an actor or an athlete's salary have to do with the price of tea in China?

[JohnnyMack]

could someone define "war" for me?

wasn't the "war" in Iraq over once the government was gone?

http://newmexiken.com/images/2004/05/Accomplished.jpg

[C&CDean]

What does what an actor or an athlete's salary have to do with the price of tea in China?

What does tea in China have to do with war in Iraq?

[JohnnyMack]

What does tea in China have to do with war in Iraq?

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Your rebuttal sucked and you know it. I'll offer you a mulligan.

[C&CDean]

Huh. My rebuttal rocked your liberal face off and you know it.

I know you're not so naive as to think that if we weren't at war our government would actually be spending those trillions on sensible things. Right? And it wouldn't matter who was in the White House. Right?

That's what I thought. So quit whining, and I'll beat you by 10 strokes without a mulligan.

[JohnnyMack]

Huh. My rebuttal rocked your liberal face off and you know it.

I know you're not so naive as to think that if we weren't at war our government would actually be spending those trillions on sensible things. Right? And it wouldn't matter who was in the White House. Right?

That's what I thought. So quit whining, and I'll beat you by 10 strokes without a mulligan.

There you go, that's more like it. At least that was better than your actor and athlete overpriced salary crap you were spewing.

[Sooner in Tampa]

http://newmexiken.com/images/2004/05/Accomplished.jpgYawn

[XingTheRubicon]

Yeah, wouldn't we all JM.

I'd also like to spend all the billions of $$ we waste on the arts, welfare, and deviant lifestyle programs on the same things. And then I'd like all the Hollywood fags and fagettes to donate 1/2 their ridiculous salaries to the same problems. And then the professional athletes. And then us common hard working joes oughta be taxed at least 75-80% to pay for this stuff too, but apparently I'm in the minority around here....


If we didn't have arts programs, then perhaps everyone would be simple enough to justify spending billions to destory hapless countries, with our boys dying in the process, and then spending billions on feeding, aiding, and reconstructing what we've blown up. I'm not a big fan of the arts, but whatever mindset that is the polar opposite of Rush "pillpopper hypocrite" Limbaugh can't be all bad.

[JohnnyMack]

Yawn

Yeah I'm tired of him too.

[GrapevineSooner]

So if the government didn't subsidize the 'art industry' arts wouldn't exist?

I beg to differ.

[usmc-sooner]

If we didn't have arts programs, then perhaps everyone would be simple enough to justify spending billions to destory hapless countries, with our boys dying in the process, and then spending billions on feeding, aiding, and reconstructing what we've blown up. I'm not a big fan of the arts, but whatever mindset that is the polar opposite of Rush "pillpopper hypocrite" Limbaugh can't be all bad.

:rolleyes:
what makes this funny is that you believe it.

[C&CDean]

If we didn't have arts programs, then perhaps everyone would be simple enough to justify spending billions to destory hapless countries, with our boys dying in the process, and then spending billions on feeding, aiding, and reconstructing what we've blown up. I'm not a big fan of the arts, but whatever mindset that is the polar opposite of Rush "pillpopper hypocrite" Limbaugh can't be all bad.

Dude, I ain't all against the arts. I enjoy live theater, and a gander at our boy Picasso's pictures, but I don't like paying taxes for "the arts" and then having somebody else determine what "art" is.

And we've been blowing people up, then rebuilding them for a century now. It ain't a Bush - or conservative - thing.

[JohnnyMack]

And we've been blowing people up, then rebuilding them for a century now. It ain't a Bush - or conservative - thing.

You're right, it's a mindset. A culture of war. A culture that some people don't agree with. A culture that some would like to move beyond. Realistic? Mebbe not, but in my mind worth a shot.

[C&CDean]

You're right, it's a mindset. A culture of war. A culture that some people don't agree with. A culture that some would like to move beyond. Realistic? Mebbe not, but in my mind worth a shot.

Dude, you're from southeast. Do your kin all think like you?

[jk the sooner fan]

http://newmexiken.com/images/2004/05/Accomplished.jpg

speaking of tea in china.....

and i third what Dean said

[usmc-sooner]

You're right, it's a mindset. A culture of war. A culture that some people don't agree with. A culture that some would like to move beyond. Realistic? Mebbe not, but in my mind worth a shot.

people have been fighting since Cane killed Abel. It's not going to stop. Yes it sucks sometimes but sometimes it is necessary.

So you best be prepared for war insteading relying on peace.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Yeah I'm tired of him too.And I am tired of hearing about the Mission Accomplished speech...anybody who has an ounce of military experience in their body knows what that was about. Did Bush jump the gun a little...sure...get over it, it happens all the time in military planning. But the liberals wouldn't know anything about it...they are too busy sleeping under the blanket of freedom that is provided to them...and then they bitch about how they got that blanket.

Like I said .... yawn.

[JohnnyMack]

people have been fighting since Cane killed Abel. It's not going to stop. Yes it sucks sometimes but sometimes it is necessary.

So you best be prepared for war insteading relying on peace.

Don't get me wrong if somebody ****s with us, they should be dealt with, in as ruthless a fashion as is necessary.

I just don't remember Saddam ****ing with us (Tuba save your SAM's fired at US planes in a no-fly zone argument, you know that's thin).

[JohnnyMack]

But the liberals wouldn't know anything about it...they are too busy sleeping under the blanket of freedom that is provided to them...and then they bitch about how they got that blanket.



Thanks Jack. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

i wonder if military salaries is included in that "cost".......i'll bet it is

for those of you wondering, the military gets paid whether we're at war or not......so consider it this way, you're getting your monies worth! :)

[XingTheRubicon]

And I am tired of hearing about the Mission Accomplished speech...anybody who has an ounce of military experience in their body knows what that was about. Did Bush jump the gun a little...sure...get over it, it happens all the time in military planning. But the liberals wouldn't know anything about it...they are too busy sleeping under the blanket of freedom that is provided to them...and then they bitch about how they got that blanket.

Like I said .... yawn.

Oh, I'm sorry, Col. Nathan R. Jessup. Thanks for that blanket of freedom from Iraq every 10 years.

[GrapevineSooner]

i wonder if military salaries is included in that "cost".......i'll bet it is

for those of you wondering, the military gets paid whether we're at war or not......so consider it this way, you're getting your monies worth! :)
I'd also bet that costs paid to contractors like the EVIL Halliburton and it's subsidiaries to do things such as help feed the troops is also included in this as well. :)

[jk the sooner fan]

yep, every penny of it.....

[Sooner in Tampa]

Oh, I'm sorry, Col. Nathan R. Jessup. Thanks for that blanket of freedom from Iraq every 10 years.If the truth hurts...tough ****.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

And I am tired of hearing about the Mission Accomplished speech...anybody who has an ounce of military experience in their body knows what that was about. Did Bush jump the gun a little...sure...get over it, it happens all the time in military planning. But the liberals wouldn't know anything about it...they are too busy sleeping under the blanket of freedom that is provided to them...and then they bitch about how they got that blanket.

Like I said .... yawn.Go ahead Dean, lock this one. It's all been said.

[XingTheRubicon]

i wonder if military salaries is included in that "cost".......i'll bet it is

for those of you wondering, the military gets paid whether we're at war or not......so consider it this way, you're getting your monies worth! :)

You mean American men and women dying?

[SoonerProphet]

but the iraqi oil sales will pay for this boondoggle...right? like everything else before this clusterf*uck, it was bull****.

[Sooner in Tampa]

You mean American men and women dying?Yes...men and women die during war. It is just like the saying goes...Freedom is NOT Free.

[jk the sooner fan]

can somebody tell me what the liberals thought of Reagans plan to win the cold war? and how expensive it was? and whether or not it eventually turned out to be a success?

[mdklatt]

I would rather have the money spent here at home, ya know on things like education, infrastructure, new oil refineries to reduce foreign dependence on oil, etc. but apparently I'm in the minority around here.

Education is funded at the state level for the most part. If we could significantly downsize the Dept. of Education and eliminate things like the unfunded mandates of the No Child Left Behind program we would be better off. For every $1 of federal tax that goes to DC for education, what insignificant part comes back to local schools? Why not just cut out the middleman and give that entire $1 to local schools? Less federal money spent on education is the key, not more.

Infrastructure is also mostly a state/local thing. If it isn't, why are the roads in Oklahoma so much worse than in Texas?

Why should government money be going into building new oil refineries? Exxon ain't hurting for money right now, let them foot the bill.

[SoonerProphet]

yeah, cause ronny was the singular reason behind the collapse of teetering command economy. not to mention we are still borrowing money from the chinese and japanese to pay for that government boondoggle as well.

[picasso]

If we didn't have arts programs, then perhaps everyone would be simple enough to justify spending billions to destory hapless countries, with our boys dying in the process, and then spending billions on feeding, aiding, and reconstructing what we've blown up.
ever heard of World War II?

and for the record, we need money for the arts but I never had a class until college. music programs are a must IMO.

[jk the sooner fan]

are you saying without his push it would have happened on its own? are you saying that the soviet economy didnt get help in its failure because of what they spent trying to keep up? never said ronny was the singular cause.....but nice of you to read it that way

[GrapevineSooner]

yeah, cause ronny was the singular reason behind the collapse of teetering command economy. not to mention we are still borrowing money from the chinese and japanese to pay for that government boondoggle as well.

I don't think anybody is arguing he's the singular reason behind it.

But I'd like somebody to challenge the notion that his policies helped push it over the edge.

[mdklatt]

But I'd like somebody to challenge the notion that his policies helped push it over the edge.

I wonder if the Reagan administration had a grand plan to bankrupt the Soviet Bloc all along, or that was just a fortuitous result of the arms race? Probably the latter.

[SoonerProphet]

while I'd like to fully buy into the myth that defense contractors and the pentagon spoon feed the populace, i don't.

the soviet economy had been stagnating in a variety of areas since the late 60's. oil production was an issue, as were prices and wages, grain production, the technology gap. not to mention a rising social and political backlash to the totalitarian machine.

if you haven't read any decent literature that challenge the claims of the the arsm race destroying the soviets, you haven't tried very hard

[JLB]

I say we cut welfare to the point that it no longer exsists.That way we could build up our forces to protect the wealthy individuals when civil war breaks out in this country.
I think that whoever controls the worlds oil controls the world.So are we justified by going to Iraq and blowing up dirt huts and taking control of the ministry of oil.Yes.Will we pay for doing that in the future,who know's.
I think the bigger threat lies with China,they are already causing **** in South America.We import alot of oil from venezuala.South America could impose a serious threat to the Free world if another world war where to break out.
But I have an idea on how to rid the US of poverty.Sell large amounts of Oxycontin like my dad's hero,Rush Limbaugh.

[picasso]

while I'd like to fully buy into the myth that defense contractors and the pentagon spoon feed the populace, i don't.

the soviet economy had been stagnating in a variety of areas since the late 60's. oil production was an issue, as were prices and wages, grain production, the technology gap. not to mention a rising social and political backlash to the totalitarian machine.

if you haven't read any decent literature that challenge the claims of the the arsm race destroying the soviets, you haven't tried very hard
I don't doubt you for a second but are you really not giving the Gip any credit whatsoever?
I mean I've seen a pretty good documentary on PBS of all places showing Ron's vital role in those days.

[SoonerProphet]

I don't doubt you for a second but are you really not giving the Gip any credit whatsoever?
I mean I've seen a pretty good documentary on PBS of all places showing Ron's vital role in those days.

Nah, I have given the Gip plenty of credit. His rhetoric, his actions, his alliances, and the like are all important. I am just trying to argue that the military build up and massive spending spree was the least influential and by and large counter-productive. Hell, we could have cut off grain credits and starved the commies to death...would have been cheaper.

[JohnnyMack]

can somebody tell me what the liberals thought of Reagans plan to win the cold war? and how expensive it was? and whether or not it eventually turned out to be a success?

Long term I think the Jury may still be out. Putin and Nazarbayev are pretty hard line. Russia and Kazakhstan keeping taking away individuals rights, buddying up with Iran and China so although we did win the first round, to say long term if it was successful isn't really practical.

[XingTheRubicon]

spending billions to destory hapless countries



ever heard of World War II?


You ever heard of hapless?

[JohnnyMack]

I wonder if the Reagan administration had a grand plan to bankrupt the Soviet Bloc all along, or that was just a fortuitous result of the arms race? Probably the latter.

The arms race that was started by FDR when he greenlit the Manhattan Project.

[mdklatt]

The arms race that was started by FDR when he greenlit the Manhattan Project.

Reagan did more to amp up the arms race than some of his predecesors. Whether because of his grand plan or being in the right place at the right time, Reagan will always be remembered as the guy that won the Cold War.

[Harry Beanbag]

The arms race that was started by FDR when he greenlit the Manhattan Project.


I'm certainly glad he did it. Hitler and Hirohito had no problem going for the bomb, we just got there first.

[JohnnyMack]

I'm certainly glad he did it. Hitler and Hirohito had no problem going for the bomb, we just got there first.

I was just pointing out that this thing had been bleeding the USSR dry for almost 50 years so it wasn't like Reagan did it all himself, he had lots of help.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I say we cut welfare to the point that it no longer exsists.That way we could build up our forces to protect the wealthy individuals when civil war breaks out in this country.
I think that whoever controls the worlds oil controls the world.So are we justified by going to Iraq and blowing up dirt huts and taking control of the ministry of oil.Yes.Will we pay for doing that in the future,who know's.
I think the bigger threat lies with China,they are already causing **** in South America.We import alot of oil from venezuala.South America could impose a serious threat to the Free world if another world war where to break out.
But I have an idea on how to rid the US of poverty.Sell large amounts of Oxycontin like my dad's hero,Rush Limbaugh.There's a pres. candidate that will take care of all these problems next time around. Vote Hillary in '08:O

[Harry Beanbag]

spending billions to destory hapless countries




You ever heard of hapless?


Well, Germany and Japan were pretty hapless when we were through with them. ;)

[mdklatt]

I was just pointing out that this thing had been bleeding the USSR dry for almost 50 years so it wasn't like Reagan did it all himself, he had lots of help.

The first touchdown of a game is just as important as the last one, but which one gets remembered as the "winning" touchdown?

[Harry Beanbag]

I was just pointing out that this thing had been bleeding the USSR dry for almost 50 years so it wasn't like Reagan did it all himself, he had lots of help.

Yeah, I just wasn't sure where you were going with that. ;)

The thing with the Soviet Union was they couldn't just be content with keeping up with the U.S.. If we had 2000 tanks, they had to have 8000. If we had 200 submarines, they had to have 800. If we had 12,000 warheads, they had to have 24,000. Etc.

Part of their downfall was their own stupidity, ego, and/or lack of reliable technology.

[crawfish]

I was just pointing out that this thing had been bleeding the USSR dry for almost 50 years so it wasn't like Reagan did it all himself, he had lots of help.

The USSR was either going to explode or implode...Reagan's policies made the latter their only plausible solution.

Rest assured, there were plenty of powerful people in the Soviet government who felt that war with the U.S. was the best way out of their financial crisis.

[JohnnyMack]

The first touchdown of a game is just as important as the last one, but which one gets remembered as the "winning" touchdown?

Why do you hate Chuck Long?

[1stTimeCaller]

That's OK. I don't mind paying a little to help out.... wait.... did you say trillion with a 'T' or billion with a 'B'? If it's with the 'T' then we're talking about a lot of money.

[picasso]

spending billions to destory hapless countries




You ever heard of hapless?
yeah I got that part but we helped rebuild more than just the bad guys.:D

[JohnnyMack]

That's OK. I don't mind paying a little to help out.... wait.... did you say trillion with a 'T' or billion with a 'B'? If it's with the 'T' then we're talking about a lot of money.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1142972&postcount=13

[Hatfield]

"There's a lot of money out there, and to assume that we're going to pay for it [the war] is just wrong."

Paul Wolfowitz - 2-27-03



Andrew Natsios, Chief for International Development at the State Department (political appointee), on Nightline with Ted Koppel 4-23-03

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) The Marshall Plan was $97 billion.

ANDREW NATSIOS
This is 1.7 billion.

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) All right, this is the first. I mean, when you talk about 1.7, you're not suggesting that the rebuilding of Iraq is gonna be done for $1.7 billion?

ANDREW NATSIOS
Well, in terms of the American taxpayers contribution, I do

...

TED KOPPEL
(Off Camera) I understand. But as far as reconstruction goes, the American taxpayer will not be hit for more than $1.7 billion no matter how long the process takes?

ANDREW NATSIOS
That is our plan and that is our intention. And these figures, outlandish figures I've seen, I have to say, there's a little bit of hoopla involved in this.