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southern sooner
1/9/2006, 02:58 PM
Haven't seen a lot of clips on Murray, however; I have heard a lot of great things about him. Here is the question, do we use him as a slot back? In the backfied with AD at same time a lot of just minor use? Does he redshirt knowing that AD will probably come out next year? Would like to hear some educated opinions. Also does him coming in limit or push Allan out?

NormanPride
1/9/2006, 03:03 PM
It probably limits AP, though he might still get some carries, especially if Gute is still out with his ACL. We brought Murray in to be our everything back. We'll put him in the slot, out wide, as the swingback in that weird set we use, and as the HB.

He's an interesting runner and I'm not really sure how to describe him. He's got great hands and is relly fluid in his motions. He's like the finesse version of AD, in that he tries to avoid tackles more than run people over.

shavedmarmoset
1/9/2006, 03:07 PM
I'm not so sure AD comes out next year if he has another year like he did this year. If he only gets 1000 yards or a little over, I think he stays. But again his production was limited by injury this year but still...

Just something to think about.

BoonesFarmSooner
1/9/2006, 03:09 PM
A lot of people have questioned the level of competition he has played against in Las Vegas. It will be interesting to see how he does when he reports in the fall.

Pete Carrol wanted him as a CB. We'll see if he lives up to the hype...

shavedmarmoset
1/9/2006, 03:10 PM
A lot of people have questioned the level of competition he has played against in Las Vegas.

I saw his film and it seems he has a really good O-line. May have inflated his numbers a little bit.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/9/2006, 03:20 PM
well, las vegas is not what i'd call a mecca of foosball so i can see where they get that. as a matter of a fact, i'll bet that his own defense was one of the better ones he faced all year (especially when they had ryan reynolds). however, murray is one of the few running backs we've recruited that camped at OU. so the coaches should have a pretty good idea of his skills.

the only guys that are going to push patrick's carries down are madu and brown.

JohnnyMack
1/9/2006, 03:21 PM
the only guys that are going to push patrick's carries down are madu and brown.

Why?

Doged
1/9/2006, 03:21 PM
I'll be kinda' surprised if he's not redshirted as the heir apparent to AD since we already have good depth at RB.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/9/2006, 03:23 PM
Why?

patrick is more of a spell back for peterson. if one of those 2 comes in and do something spectacular (like pass block), then they could cut his snaps.

Blues1
1/9/2006, 03:30 PM
Murray - Patrick and AD all in the backfield at once --- Sounds Like wide open football to me..........................:D

Soonermagik
1/9/2006, 03:35 PM
I doubt they redshirt Murray. I don't believe he's over hyped he looks to be a Reggie Bush type player, we just throw him in the slot.

oumartin
1/9/2006, 03:56 PM
Patrick is the pitch man!
Ala Patrick Collins, Anthony Stafford

Taxman71
1/9/2006, 04:19 PM
Murray is starting to sound alot like DJ Wolfe 2 years ago. If we don't sign AD, it would likely be DJ getting 20 carries a game last year.

NickZeppelin
1/9/2006, 04:21 PM
Wolfe didn't average 12.3 ypc did he?

Collier11
1/9/2006, 04:23 PM
If he is as good as most think he is, I would assume that we will get murray around 10 touches a game either draw type plays, screens, or catching passes in the slot, thats my opinion based on what ive seen and heard of him

Rock Hard Corn Frog
1/9/2006, 04:31 PM
I really doubt that Murray will redshirt. He might be a good candidate to return kicks and I could see him used in kick coverage team. Certainly with Gutierrez status for next year being in doubt we will probably won't redshirt any of our RB. I would think Patrick is the #2 back going into the season but Murray would have a good shot at being #3. Regardless I think Wilson will try to find a way to get him the ball a few times a game.

NormanPride
1/9/2006, 04:32 PM
I think Brown is a RS. And unless Junior shows something really neat in practice, the coaches seem to want him at DB. I'm with jkm, though, in thinking that he would be good for our offense. A good blend of shotgun and I back.

JohnnyMack
1/9/2006, 04:41 PM
I just didn't think a lot of 5* rb's wanted to ride the pine. Seeing as where their shelf life is so limited and all. But I may not be all that smart.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/9/2006, 04:42 PM
given the # of 5* early entrants, i don't think there are very many of them that want to stay in college more than 3 years much less ride the pine.

JohnnyMack
1/9/2006, 04:43 PM
I really doubt that Murray will redshirt. He might be a good candidate to return kicks and I could see him used in kick coverage team. Certainly with Gutierrez status for next year being in doubt we will probably won't redshirt any of our RB. I would think Patrick is the #2 back going into the season but Murray would have a good shot at being #3. Regardless I think Wilson will try to find a way to get him the ball a few times a game.

If by "I could see him used in kick coverage team" you mean "there's no effing way Wilson risks him getting hurt by letting him cover kicks" then yes, I agree.

JohnnyMack
1/9/2006, 04:44 PM
given the # of 5* early entrants, i don't think there are very many of them that want to stay in college more than 3 years much less ride the pine.

I'm just curious as to what he was told/promised as to what would be his role on the team this fall before he made his announcement, that's all.

sooner13f
1/9/2006, 05:14 PM
I agree he will see some action at slot and as the year goes in the backfield on passing downs. He blocked well in the AA game and he is known more for his catching ability.

MI Sooner
1/9/2006, 05:33 PM
If Murray doensn't redshirt and AD looks healthy, they need to move Patrick back to safety. He is a playmaker, period. I know they plan to move Smith to corner, which is good, since he seemed to shy away from contact... AP won't.

Then again, maybe he doesn't have the the ability to tackle, read offenses, or and stick to his assignments. Wait a minute, he'd an exemplary OU DB (see Everage, Onyenagecha, et al).

MI Sooner
1/9/2006, 05:39 PM
I like the idea of AD only having to take about 80% of the snaps next year, I just hope that he sits out to rest, not because he can't pass block, or less importantly, run routes.

Never having played RB (not that my HS WR experience is relevant to anything else), I'd like to know if pass blocking something that can be taught, or is it too instinctive? Surely AD has the attitude to block. He doesn't shy away from contact. Is his problem technique? ...reading the blitz package? Our offense would be a lot more potent if we could use different personnel in passing game/I-formation.

Texas Golfer
1/9/2006, 08:40 PM
Murray will not see a down in '06. You heard it hear first.

He will redshirt this year and, if AD has a year like his freshman year and leaves early, Murray could be a four year starter.

If Murray is as good as everyone says he is, we won't waste him on the bench. We already have several more than capable backups for AD now.

OU-HSV
1/9/2006, 08:59 PM
Murray will not see a down in '06. You heard it hear first.

He will redshirt this year and, if AD has a year like his freshman year and leaves early, Murray could be a four year starter.

If Murray is as good as everyone says he is, we won't waste him on the bench. We already have several more than capable backups for AD now.
I kinda feel the way your talking here as well. Except that if Murray is as good as he seems to be, he won't stay 4 years either.

AlbqSooner
1/9/2006, 09:11 PM
A lot of people have questioned the level of competition he has played against in Las Vegas. It will be interesting to see how he does when he reports in the fall.
Couple of years ago a lot of people questioned the level of competition a running back out of Palestine, TX had played against.

OU_Sooners75
1/9/2006, 09:34 PM
I like the idea of AD only having to take about 80% of the snaps next year, I just hope that he sits out to rest, not because he can't pass block, or less importantly, run routes.

Never having played RB (not that my HS WR experience is relevant to anything else), I'd like to know if pass blocking something that can be taught, or is it too instinctive? Surely AD has the attitude to block. He doesn't shy away from contact. Is his problem technique? ...reading the blitz package? Our offense would be a lot more potent if we could use different personnel in passing game/I-formation.


Aww...a some questions i can attempt to answer.

Pass Blocking can be taught to anyone. It is the technique they need to get used to at first....Pass Blocking doesnt mean you have to be physical (thought being physical is a bonus), just stay between them and the QB and keep the rushers hands down. I saw a lot of improvement in AD this year from last year in pass blocking.

I think AD's pass blocking problems stems from his career in HS. Very seldom did he have to pass block, or catch a pass. It is a shame that his HS coaches didnt teach him how to pass block. He can run a route just fine. there isnt very many the HB runs for OU in the first place.

With Wilson as our OC now, i hope we see what he was able to do at Northwestern. That is a lot of power football and a lot of rollout & play action passes. I hope he also uses the TE more than Long did, especially waggles and short dump off routes. Bomar very rarely had a receiver that was his check off man....so i hope Wilson utilizes the RBs and the TEs more.

OU_Sooners75
1/9/2006, 09:38 PM
I kinda feel the way your talking here as well. Except that if Murray is as good as he seems to be, he won't stay 4 years either.


Why not? The money for early departures will be capped starting in the 2007 draft.

That is why i think AD would have to have an extraordinary year in 2006 to leave early. Also, it seems AD has the parents that want him to get his education first.

As far a Murray...Lets see what he can do his first year before we say he will leave after 3 or not. They say he is like Reggie Bush, but Nevada really isnt known for their football, so lets see what he can do against some of the best players from around the nation.

Collier11
1/9/2006, 10:04 PM
Murray will not see a down in '06. You heard it hear first.

He will redshirt this year and, if AD has a year like his freshman year and leaves early, Murray could be a four year starter.

If Murray is as good as everyone says he is, we won't waste him on the bench. We already have several more than capable backups for AD now.

Id actually have to disagree...IF, and thats definately a big IF...murray is as good as advertised I believe he will definately play. We need someone who can give us a big play threat besides AD and Kelly. IF you remember, when we won the title in 2000, we had savage, fagan, smith, and Q(although he wasnt as good then as he eventually became) that provided us with the big play threat everytime they touched the ball. We can use him in so many positions that I think he will play. I could be wrong, but we will see

Harry Beanbag
1/9/2006, 10:29 PM
We already have several more than capable backups for AD now.


Like who? There are only two other RBs on campus that have played a down and one of them blew out his knee less than two weeks ago.

I think Murray definitely plays, Brown will be the likely redshirt IMO.

jreed13
1/9/2006, 10:46 PM
Murray will not redshirt. I expect him to be our punt return man. The coaches should find a way to work him into the offense a la ronnie brown and cadilac williams. We should throw him out in the slot or even put them both in the backfield at the same time. There is plenty of ways to make stuff interesting. Hell, even break the huddle. Have Bomar run out to the slot. Line up murray under center and run the option with him and AD. The possibilities with a utility player like that are endless :D

NickZeppelin
1/9/2006, 11:47 PM
There's no way Murray redshirts. If AD gets hurt then we have 3 RBs on scholarship 4 if you count Gute who's probably not gonna be near healthy enough to play because of that knee tear.

OU-HSV
1/9/2006, 11:49 PM
Why not? The money for early departures will be capped starting in the 2007 draft.

That is why i think AD would have to have an extraordinary year in 2006 to leave early. Also, it seems AD has the parents that want him to get his education first.

As far a Murray...Lets see what he can do his first year before we say he will leave after 3 or not. They say he is like Reggie Bush, but Nevada really isnt known for their football, so lets see what he can do against some of the best players from around the nation.
Good point on the salary cap, I haven't thought of it that way. Even with a salary cap couldn't college players continue to leave early but just for less money? I don't keep up w/the NFL finances and how all that works so that is an honest question. And I agree about Murray...that's why I said if he's as good as he seems to be.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 01:06 AM
Good point on the salary cap, I haven't thought of it that way. Even with a salary cap couldn't college players continue to leave early but just for less money? I don't keep up w/the NFL finances and how all that works so that is an honest question. And I agree about Murray...that's why I said if he's as good as he seems to be.


yeah, they can and will...but the big money for any rookie will not be there...that is why there is such a mass exodus this season with underclassmen leaving early.

Since they know they will be limited to what they make, it may make some underclassmen think twice about leaving early. The good ones will still get drafted high anyway...but instead of 40 mill for the first 3-4 years it may only be 10 mill....even though the cap is yet to be determined.

Murray...I watched that Army AA game...and he seemed to be a very good blocker...I wished the coaches would have given him more touches so we could gage him better running with the ball.

If he is as advertised....AD will have a very good complimentary back.

Edit: the cap will really only effect the first rounders anyway.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 01:09 AM
There's no way Murray redshirts. If AD gets hurt then we have 3 RBs on scholarship 4 if you count Gute who's probably not gonna be near healthy enough to play because of that knee tear.


Why is there no way he redshirts?

If he agrees, I wouldnt be surprised to see it happen...but if he is that good, i would be surprised to see it happen...but you never know.

Stoops needs to redshirt more anyway.

NickZeppelin
1/10/2006, 01:18 AM
First of all Murray has already said he won't redshirt anywhere he plays. Murray will have a chance to be our running back in the shotgun. I think it'll be between him and Patrick.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 01:23 AM
First of all Murray has already said he won't redshirt anywhere he plays. Murray will have a chance to be our running back in the shotgun. I think it'll be between him and Patrick.


First of all, he has no control if he redshirts or not....Stoops does.

If Stoops feels he will be better with an extra year...then that is what will happen.

I honestly do not see it happening...but saying that there is no way....well...that is beyond all of us.

I honestly think he will be behind Gute and Patrick, and seeing him playing more of a slot back than anything else.

NickZeppelin
1/10/2006, 01:27 AM
Gute won't play next year more than likely. If he does play it's late in the year.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 01:33 AM
Gute won't play next year more than likely. If he does play it's late in the year.


Gute will be ready to play by fall.

NickZeppelin
1/10/2006, 10:32 AM
Are you kidding me? A knee tear usually takes 9 months minimum to rehab. He probably won't be walking till about March. Then Rehab starts after that.

jreed13
1/10/2006, 10:34 AM
What about Jerry Rice ;)

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 10:54 AM
Are you kidding me? A knee tear usually takes 9 months minimum to rehab. He probably won't be walking till about March. Then Rehab starts after that.

What are you a doctor? Physical Therapist?

Ever tear a ligament?

Most likely if it isnt one of your fingers...I doubt you have.

It doesnt take 9 months to rehab it.

They will do the surgery, he will then keep his weight off of it for a couple of weeks to a month....after that it is up to him how hard he wants to rehab to get back into game shape....It isnt like he has to learn how to walk and run again...all he has to do when cleared for activity is start to work with weights and jogging and running most likely a lot of that will be done in a pool, to keep a lot of weight off of it.

When i tore the ligaments in my ankle i was ready to go about 4 months afterward, 100% about 5 months later....and since the ankle is where all your weight is, i doubt his will take 9 months for a knee unless he is being lazy. Shot, most people now adays it only takes about 4 months to get back into action.

NickZeppelin
1/10/2006, 10:57 AM
It'll take atleast 6 or 7 though. I think if he's healthy it's by atleast the middle of the season probably the later part of the season. Jason White tore his knee in November of 2001. He wasn't even healthy when he came back in September.

JohnnyMack
1/10/2006, 10:58 AM
LenDale White = AD
Reggie Bush = DeMarco Murray

Or

Thunder = AD
Lightning = Murray

The above was for all my peeps keepin' it real in the '95!

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 11:03 AM
It'll take atleast 6 or 7 though. I think if he's healthy it's by atleast the middle of the season probably the later part of the season. Jason White tore his knee in November of 2001. He wasn't even healthy when he came back in September.


These are not videogamers..these guys are athletes...and their bodies are not fat or out of shape.

I would believe you if he was a videogamer or a lazy guy on a messageboard...but he isnt...and since his injury occured just about a month ago, I dont think they are waiting until summer to do the surgery and start to rehab it.

This is mid-January...most likely he has had surgery and is about to start rehabbing...that means when the season starts, hell when fall practice starts, it would have been 8-9 months since it occured...He will be ready.

It didnt take Dvoracek 9 months to heal from a torn bicep...or Birdine...and that is a torn muscle....trust me....Gute will be ready by the time two-a-days start!

NickZeppelin
1/10/2006, 11:06 AM
Torn Bicep is a lot different from a a torn knee.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 11:07 AM
Torn Bicep is a lot different from a a torn knee.


yeah it is....it is a lot worse...the big difference is, it isnt weight bearing.

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:12 AM
I saw John Williams three weeks after his surgery and he was walking around on his knee. I asked him how it was and he said it was fine and that he was rehabbing it ans would be ready for Spring practices at 100%.......These guys can heal from these surgeries a lot faster than they used to....

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:15 AM
yeah it is....it is a lot worse...the big difference is, it isnt weight bearing.


Yeah, I don't get the whole Bicep injury...you would think that it wouldn't be anything like a ACL, but man, DD's bicep took him out for a longgggggg time....bicep injuries must be one of the worst muscle injuries.....:eek:

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 11:15 AM
Nick...

http://www.athleticadvisor.com/Injuries/LE/Knee/acl_tears.htm

Most orthopaedic surgeons will have the patient wait two to four weeks before repairing the ACL after the original injury. This is done to reduce the swelling, return normal quad function and to decrease pain. If the surgery is performed immediately after the injury the body will experience a double insult from the injury and trauma of surgery, this makes the initial recovery very difficult.

The surgical treatment for ACL ruptures can be performed in one of three ways. One method of repair is to use a patellar bone-tendon-bone graft. This technique utilizes the middle one-third of the patellar tendon with an attached piece of bone from the patella and tibia. This bone-tendon-bone graft is then used to replace the damaged ligament. Another surgical method utilizes a graft taken from the hamstring tendons. The hamstring tendon is used to replace the torn ACL in the same manner. The third surgical procedure utilizes a patellar bone-tendon-bone graft from a cadaver donor. This procedure is most often used in people who have returned from a previously reconstructed ACL. In all three of these procedures, drill holes are made in the Tibia and Femur where the ACL originates. The new ligament is passed through the holes and held in place with interference screws.

Rehabilitation after surgery has come a long way in the past ten years. Today, most orthopaedic surgeons begin rehabilitation the day after surgery. Early rehabilitation begins with protected weight bearing, quad setting, straight leg raising, cycling, and guarded knee extensions. The early phase of the recovery is protected to guard against the new ligament pulling loose from the screws that hold it in place. As with any fracture, the bone hole must fill in with new bone before the rehab can become too aggressive. This process takes about six weeks.

Rehab continues to progress during the first six weeks as the patient progresses. Exercises to develop balance, strength and coordination are instituted. These include stork stands, body weight linebacker squats, stair climber, and calf raises. Further progression in the rehabilitation will bring more complex activities such as closed chain terminal knee extensions, leg press, one leg squats, and balance activities with unstable footing.

The second six weeks of the controlled rehab revolves around more complex activities. The activities include complex balance, lateral motion, and greater strength. Activities such as slide board, a progressive running program, one-leg leg press, and balance with very unstable footing can be used.

Near three months post-op the controlled rehab ends, and the patient continues rehab on his/her own. It is very important to continue strengthening the leg during this time. Between three and six months the repaired ACL is at its weakest point. During the first three months the tissue has very limited blood supply and is degrading. The body slowly brings the new blood vessels into the area but not fast enough to stop the degradation process. The athlete must be aware of this so that he/she does not re-tear the ACL. Rehab should continue while avoiding cutting and pivoting.

ACL tears are no longer the end of an athlete's career. If the surgical and rehab techniques used today were available to Gayle Sayers, Joe Namaith, or even any of other affected athletes 20 years ago, their careers would probably have lasted five or ten years longer. The ACL can be repaired with no loss in function or strength. Many athletes return to play stronger and faster than before the injury.

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:17 AM
Nick...

http://www.athleticadvisor.com/Injuries/LE/Knee/acl_tears.htm

Most orthopaedic surgeons will have the patient wait two to four weeks before repairing the ACL after the original injury. This is done to reduce the swelling, return normal quad function and to decrease pain. If the surgery is performed immediately after the injury the body will experience a double insult from the injury and trauma of surgery, this makes the initial recovery very difficult.

The surgical treatment for ACL ruptures can be performed in one of three ways. One method of repair is to use a patellar bone-tendon-bone graft. This technique utilizes the middle one-third of the patellar tendon with an attached piece of bone from the patella and tibia. This bone-tendon-bone graft is then used to replace the damaged ligament. Another surgical method utilizes a graft taken from the hamstring tendons. The hamstring tendon is used to replace the torn ACL in the same manner. The third surgical procedure utilizes a patellar bone-tendon-bone graft from a cadaver donor. This procedure is most often used in people who have returned from a previously reconstructed ACL. In all three of these procedures, drill holes are made in the Tibia and Femur where the ACL originates. The new ligament is passed through the holes and held in place with interference screws.

Rehabilitation after surgery has come a long way in the past ten years. Today, most orthopaedic surgeons begin rehabilitation the day after surgery. Early rehabilitation begins with protected weight bearing, quad setting, straight leg raising, cycling, and guarded knee extensions. The early phase of the recovery is protected to guard against the new ligament pulling loose from the screws that hold it in place. As with any fracture, the bone hole must fill in with new bone before the rehab can become too aggressive. This process takes about six weeks.

Rehab continues to progress during the first six weeks as the patient progresses. Exercises to develop balance, strength and coordination are instituted. These include stork stands, body weight linebacker squats, stair climber, and calf raises. Further progression in the rehabilitation will bring more complex activities such as closed chain terminal knee extensions, leg press, one leg squats, and balance activities with unstable footing.

The second six weeks of the controlled rehab revolves around more complex activities. The activities include complex balance, lateral motion, and greater strength. Activities such as slide board, a progressive running program, one-leg leg press, and balance with very unstable footing can be used.

Near three months post-op the controlled rehab ends, and the patient continues rehab on his/her own. It is very important to continue strengthening the leg during this time. Between three and six months the repaired ACL is at its weakest point. During the first three months the tissue has very limited blood supply and is degrading. The body slowly brings the new blood vessels into the area but not fast enough to stop the degradation process. The athlete must be aware of this so that he/she does not re-tear the ACL. Rehab should continue while avoiding cutting and pivoting.

ACL tears are no longer the end of an athlete's career. If the surgical and rehab techniques used today were available to Gayle Sayers, Joe Namaith, or even any of other affected athletes 20 years ago, their careers would probably have lasted five or ten years longer. The ACL can be repaired with no loss in function or strength. Many athletes return to play stronger and faster than before the injury.


woa nelly.....

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 11:18 AM
Yeah, I don't get the whole Bicep injury...you would think that it wouldn't be anything like a ACL, but man, DD's bicep took him out for a longgggggg time....bicep injuries must be one of the worst muscle injuries.....:eek:


The bicep is the muscle itself...a ligament is what keeps bones attached.

The ACL keeps the bones from twisting and doing other weird stuff in your lower leg.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 11:23 AM
woa nelly.....


It will take about 6 months for the average person to get back to the way there were before the injury...but with an athlete it depends on the person and how fast their body heals. 9 months....that is way to long.

Carson Palmer is a great example....he just torn his this past Sunday...and they have already said he will be back for training camp.

So i dont see why Gute wouldnt be...hell Gute will probably participate in spring drills.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/10/2006, 11:30 AM
they've stopped immobilizing the knee which has helped recovery time for the body. the problem with their rehab isn't physical, its mental so the recovery times can vary. a lot. my supposition that gute won't be back until mid-year next year is based on gute's game. its all about trusting that knee to make cuts. those are the guys that tend to take the longest amount of time to come back from the injury.

as for your ankle injury example, that's a little different. i'm sure the ligaments are nice and stretchy now so that any time you step incorrectly on an uneven surface you go down in a heap. that's cool and all for an ankle, a knee not so much...

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:35 AM
The bicep is the muscle itself...a ligament is what keeps bones attached.

The ACL keeps the bones from twisting and doing other weird stuff in your lower leg.


Sorry, I meant that a bicep injury must be one of the hardest types to recover from....:)

NickZeppelin
1/10/2006, 11:35 AM
Carson won't have to use his knee except to plant his foot and make sure he throws it right. If Gute comes back too early he may get anothr knee injury or he may never be the same as he was. He may already never be the same again anyway.

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:39 AM
they've stopped immobilizing the knee which has helped recovery time for the body. the problem with their rehab isn't physical, its mental so the recovery times can vary. a lot. my supposition that gute won't be back until mid-year next year is based on gute's game. its all about trusting that knee to make cuts. those are the guys that tend to take the longest amount of time to come back from the injury.

as for your ankle injury example, that's a little different. i'm sure the ligaments are nice and stretchy now so that any time you step incorrectly on an uneven surface you go down in a heap. that's cool and all for an ankle, a knee not so much...


Even a big guy like CJ Ah You ,who has blown both ACLs, says he is still wary of his knees...If you watch him play, after every play it looks almost like he is checking to make sure everything with his knees is okay.....I watched in one of our home games and he would tug and mess with that knee brace, or whatever you call it, that he wears...

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/10/2006, 11:41 AM
you'll also notice that he is a straight line guy and hardly ever tries to do anything that would torque his knee. now think about a jitterbug running back who depends on running from point A to point B in a zig zag.

NickZeppelin
1/10/2006, 11:41 AM
Jason White is another example of this. Because of his knees he was never able to play in the NFL despite a great arm.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/10/2006, 11:43 AM
everyone heals differently from knee injuries. some say that it feels like they have sand paper between the joints, others can barely move the next day, yet others feel fine. white was one of the middle group and as such, there was no way he was going to be able to take the NFL training regimine

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:45 AM
you'll also notice that he is a straight line guy and hardly ever tries to do anything that would torque his knee. now think about a jitterbug running back who depends on running from point A to point B in a zig zag.


no kidding....he may not be able to jitterbug around the field anymore like he used to.....:eek:

while we're on the subject of ACLs, why does it seem like so many OU players get ACL injuries, even two of the three WR and DE we sent to the NFL had ACL injuries??? Is it something in the water or is it just one of those things you just start to become more and more aware of because of guys like JW??(you know, like when you buy a new car you think is original, and you get 2 blocks down the road and see the exact same thing because you notice things like that)

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/10/2006, 11:47 AM
bob stoops said some things he shouldn't have...

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:47 AM
bob stoops said some things he shouldn't have...


:confused: explain?

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
1/10/2006, 11:50 AM
before the 2001 season, he was asked about the lack of ACLs. he credited the S&C program and how it seemed to prevent them from happening. i have no idea of the real reason, but tempting fate seems like about as good of an explanation as any ;)

The Consumate Showman
1/10/2006, 11:51 AM
before the 2001 season, he was asked about the lack of ACLs. he credited the S&C program and how it seemed to prevent them from happening. i have no idea of the real reason, but tempting fate seems like about as good of an explanation as any ;)


jeez what a duuuuuuuuufuuuuuuus!

Harry Beanbag
1/10/2006, 12:00 PM
It will take about 6 months for the average person to get back to the way there were before the injury...but with an athlete it depends on the person and how fast their body heals. 9 months....that is way to long.

Carson Palmer is a great example....he just torn his this past Sunday...and they have already said he will be back for training camp.

So i dont see why Gute wouldnt be...hell Gute will probably participate in spring drills.


Being able to play and being able to play at the same level as before the injury are two different things. Gute will most likely not be the same until the 2007 season. There are multiple recent examples of this phenomenon.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 03:46 PM
Jason White is another example of this. Because of his knees he was never able to play in the NFL despite a great arm.


:confused:

LMAO...the last time i looked 2 serious knee injuries was the cause of that, not one.

Gute will be back ready to play by two-a-days. by that time it would have been almost 9-10 months that he suffered his injury.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 03:49 PM
Being able to play and being able to play at the same level as before the injury are two different things. Gute will most likely not be the same until the 2007 season. There are multiple recent examples of this phenomenon.


And there have been players that have suffered the same injury that was back the following season at the same level of play.

It all deals with his attitude. If he works hard, like Jason White did, he will be ready to play and at the same level of play that he was before the injury.

If he takes a well crap attitude about it, it could take longer.

Most likely it will be the first...or at least i hope so.

But he will be ready to go at the beginning of fall.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 03:54 PM
they've stopped immobilizing the knee which has helped recovery time for the body. the problem with their rehab isn't physical, its mental so the recovery times can vary. a lot. my supposition that gute won't be back until mid-year next year is based on gute's game. its all about trusting that knee to make cuts. those are the guys that tend to take the longest amount of time to come back from the injury.

as for your ankle injury example, that's a little different. i'm sure the ligaments are nice and stretchy now so that any time you step incorrectly on an uneven surface you go down in a heap. that's cool and all for an ankle, a knee not so much...


LOL

God, im glad you are here to let me know that they are different.

But trust me....the knee is about as important as the ankle...without both you cannot walk or run. A difference is...if you are a jitterbug runner and plant and cut off of an ankle that suffered ligament damage, it can hurt your style more than a knee. without that ankle, there is no planting or pushing off at all.

The knee and the ankle are the most important extremidies (sp?) when it comes to playing any sport. Different, but neither can function without the other.

With that said...there really is not much of a difference except the responibilities of each.

shavedmarmoset
1/10/2006, 03:59 PM
Some ACL injuries are barely noticeable when they occur. Just look at Lance Mitchell. The dude walked into the locker room under his own power. My father skied down a mountain after he tore his ACL. He said it hurt some but it wasn't an incredible pain.

RedstickSooner
1/10/2006, 06:13 PM
Er, what's this cap thing y'all keep talking about?

They're putting a cap on what a player can sign for if they declare early? That sounds kinda iffy from a legal standpoint. The league always maintained the age restriction was because younger players couldn't hack it -- weren't physically developed enough to play. If they're physically developed enough, what excuse could you have to artificially restrict how much money they can earn?

All that being said, I'd obviously love it if kids had to stick around for four years -- think it'd be good for 'em. And great for the team :D

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 06:33 PM
Er, what's this cap thing y'all keep talking about?

They're putting a cap on what a player can sign for if they declare early? That sounds kinda iffy from a legal standpoint. The league always maintained the age restriction was because younger players couldn't hack it -- weren't physically developed enough to play. If they're physically developed enough, what excuse could you have to artificially restrict how much money they can earn?

All that being said, I'd obviously love it if kids had to stick around for four years -- think it'd be good for 'em. And great for the team :D



Sounds iffy only if the NFL and the NFLPA are in disagreement about it...however, both sides like the idea...and the NBA has one already as well.

OU-HSV
1/10/2006, 06:35 PM
Southern Sooner..I think you may have to rename this thread "Specifics to a torn ACL" :D

MiccoMacey
1/10/2006, 06:36 PM
With that said...there really is not much of a difference except the responibilities of each.

Not trying to downplay your ankle injury theory, but if this were true, you'd be hearing a lot more about people being sidelined for a year with ankle injuries than there currently are.

You don't hear it nearly as often as you do with ACL injuries, so it makes me wonder about your statement.

I don't think there is any question an ACL injury is a more serious injury than an ankle injury.

I've been fortunate to never really hurt either ankle seriously, although I've had three knee surgeries for my ACL on my left knee.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 06:42 PM
Not trying to downplay your ankle injury theory, but if this were true, you'd be hearing a lot more about people being sidelined for a year with ankle injuries than there currently are.

You don't hear it nearly as often as you do with ACL injuries, so it makes me wonder about your statement.

I don't think there is any question an ACL injury is a more serious injury than an ankle injury.

I've been fortunate to never really hurt either ankle seriously, although I've had three knee surgeries for my ACL on my left knee.


That is because very rarely do peopl tear the ligaments in their ankles. The ankle is basicaly protected with 3 sets of ligaments (top, and both sides) and the achilles (sp?) tendon....making it a very strong joint. The knee is higher up and can be twisted wrong to cause a tear in one of the 3 ligaments (ACL, PCL, and MCL). Trust me, the ankle one hurts like a mother....I have been fortunate enough not to tear any knee ligaments, but playing OL, i have had plenty of tweaks and a hyperextension before....both hurt....but when you cannot even put pressure on your toes with an ankle tear....something you can do with a knee injury (or at least something I seen plenty people do)....it is at least equally as bad...just not as frequent.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 06:43 PM
Southern Sooner..I think you may have to rename this thread "Specifics to a torn ACL" :D


LOL :O

MiccoMacey
1/10/2006, 06:49 PM
That is because very rarely do peopl tear the ligaments in their ankles. The ankle is basicaly protected with 3 sets of ligaments (top, and both sides) and the achilles (sp?) tendon....making it a very strong joint. The knee is higher up and can be twisted wrong to cause a tear in one of the 3 ligaments (ACL, PCL, and MCL). Trust me, the ankle one hurts like a mother....I have been fortunate enough not to tear any knee ligaments, but playing OL, i have had plenty of tweaks and a hyperextension before....both hurt....but when you cannot even put pressure on your toes with an ankle tear....something you can do with a knee injury (or at least something I seen plenty people do)....it is at least equally as bad...just not as frequent.

I have always heard that it is better to break your ankle than to just sprain it. I coached wrestling at a little juco in Kansas and we had one guy who kept strainng it at least once a month. Our trainer said it would pretty much happen his entire athletic life, and he'd just have to get used to it until he was "lucky" enough to break it.

My older brother broke his in two places on a trampoline, plus tore some ligaments his senior year in HS. He's had no problem that I know of.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 07:51 PM
I have always heard that it is better to break your ankle than to just sprain it. I coached wrestling at a little juco in Kansas and we had one guy who kept strainng it at least once a month. Our trainer said it would pretty much happen his entire athletic life, and he'd just have to get used to it until he was "lucky" enough to break it.

My older brother broke his in two places on a trampoline, plus tore some ligaments his senior year in HS. He's had no problem that I know of.


What college? Labett (sp?)

anyway...When i screwed mine up it was my senior year in HS the day before graduation, playing basketball.

Came down on a guys foot and broke it and tore all three sets of ligaments...hurt like a motherfer....I then tore them again when i was a sophomore in college because i was going to be late for practice, and if i hurried, i wouldnt have been. Going down the stairs, I missed one and redid it. god, i wanted to die....oh and same ankle....coach was poed to say the least.

but ever since then, it has actually been stronger than it ever was.

That is usually the way it is...if you tear or break it, it usually is stronger than it originally was. But it isnt quite as flexible.

MiccoMacey
1/10/2006, 08:11 PM
What college? Labette (sp?)

Garden City Community College.

And I tore my ACL trying out for the "All-Army" wrestling team. Freak accident. Hurt like your ankle, I suppose. I still can't see knee injuries on TV. I get squeamish (which sucks being a firefighter...I saw one the other day and wanted to hurl).

Scott D
1/10/2006, 08:27 PM
As someone who has had severe ankle and knee injuries....the knee is more difficult to recover from than the ankle. Yes, the ankle in some ways has more 'responsibiity' as a weight bearing joint, however the requirements and strain on the knee is much greater in terms of movement, especially in up/down and lateral movement.

My ankle rarely bothers me much anymore (however it does at times), however my knee is still prone to 'locking up' on a nearly weekly basis, if not every few days....one day I'll actually go in and get it cleaned out.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 08:36 PM
Garden City Community College.

And I tore my ACL trying out for the "All-Army" wrestling team. Freak accident. Hurt like your ankle, I suppose. I still can't see knee injuries on TV. I get squeamish (which sucks being a firefighter...I saw one the other day and wanted to hurl).


Wow GCCC

I had some friends from Ponca Wrestle for them until they closed the doors on it.

OU_Sooners75
1/10/2006, 08:38 PM
As someone who has had severe ankle and knee injuries....the knee is more difficult to recover from than the ankle. Yes, the ankle in some ways has more 'responsibiity' as a weight bearing joint, however the requirements and strain on the knee is much greater in terms of movement, especially in up/down and lateral movement.

My ankle rarely bothers me much anymore (however it does at times), however my knee is still prone to 'locking up' on a nearly weekly basis, if not every few days....one day I'll actually go in and get it cleaned out.


Weiny. :D

Yes I am sure there is complications with it...but the actual thing i was talking about was how long it would take to rehab. They are both about the same time...but it also has a lot to do with the individual and their attitude.