Yikes! This will be hard to explain.

[OhU1]

Kind of like Jimmy Swaggert. Except for the gay sex. :eek:

http://www.channeloklahoma.com/news/5845859/detail.html

[OklahomaTuba]

Holy ****!!! What a dumb ***.

I've been to this church and thought this guy was a good guy. This really makes me sad and angry.

I hope that Church can recover from this. This is just sad and disgusting.

[Widescreen]

I hope it's not true. I'm going to reserve judgment until more info comes out.

If it's determined to be true, he shouldn't be pastoring again.

[12]

Man, that sucks.

[critical_phil]

I'm going to reserve judgment until more info comes out.



"I was set up. I was in the area pastoring to police."


The arrest took place in the parking lot of the Habana Inn, which is in an area where the public has complained about male prostitutes flagging down cars, Becker said. The plainclothes officers was investigating these complaints.


i'm not reserving judgement.

guess what i'll never be arrested for? that's right, i'll never be arrested for soliciting sex at the habana inn. namely because i wouldn't go within a mile of that place. secondly - because i'm not a peter puffer.

i saw this guy on the local news tonight and he's already dancing a jig and speaking legalese. he'll get the charges dropped and likely go back to being a professional preacher.

[yermom]

"pastoring"

heh

[Okla-homey]

He's toast. Today in America, minor public figures are undone by the severity of a charge and not the weight of the evidence.

Anyway, IF he rolled down from Tulsa to OKC for some hot man-on-man action, that's certainly explainable, given OKC's leadership in that category.;)

[LoyalFan]

That man sucks.

Repaired.

LF

[Jerk]

So this explains all of the west-bound traffic.

[OUDoc]

Anyway, IF he rolled down from Tulsa to OKC for some hot man-on-man action, that's certainly explainable, given OKC's leadership in that category.;)
He had to. Too much syphilis in Tulsa! ;)

[ultimatesooner1]

I like how he was trying to claim police abuse because he had some scratches on his hand

[Tear Down This Wall]

The hardest thing to explain is why a pastor is rolling in a Mercedes-Benz.

[RacerX]

The business of religion is profitable.

[n8v_ndn]

Hmmm...Senior Pastor rolls into town in his '05 Mercedes...

Speaks out publicly against homosexuality, but solicits a 'laying of the tongues' session from a male undercover.

He also spoke out against tribal gaming, does this mean he's Indian and we don't know it?

Full of closeted self-loathing, he is.

[soonerbrat]

"pastoring"

heh


is that what they're calling it these days?

[Beef]

The business of religion is profitable.
Low overhead on savin' souls and stuff.

Heh. I said head.

[mdklatt]

Latham, who has spoken out against homosexuality, asked the officer to join him in his hotel room for oral sex.



Latham was arrested and his 2005 Mercedes automobile was impounded


So he's two times a hypocrite. Nice.

Do as I say, not as a I do.

[oumartin]

1TC knew this girl that pastored for $5.00 a pop.

[mdklatt]

1TC knew this girl that pastored for $5.00 a pop.

Lindsey Lohan?

[BeetDigger]

There has got to be some positive in this. At least he was paying for it rather than forcing 12 year old boys to do it to him. Yeah, there ya go. There's something positive about it.

[soonerbrat]

there's a website where you can become a pastor in 5 minutes. you are legally authorized to perform marriages and everything..too bad i lost the link.

[mdklatt]

there's a website where you can become a pastor in 5 minutes.

Do you get first class airline tickets to Vail and a new Mercedes when you finish?

[imjebus]

there's a website where you can become a pastor in 5 minutes. you are legally authorized to perform marriages and everything..too bad i lost the link.

It's the Universal Life Church I think, I did that a while back and got a certificate. I don't know if it's really legal, but it's funny...lol

I am Reverand Jebus.......:eek:

[soonerbrat]

yep, that's it. Universal Life Church. and Yep, it's really legal.

[imjebus]

yep, that's it. Universal Life Church. and Yep, it's really legal.


Cool, anyone want to get married...:D

[yermom]

There has got to be some positive in this. At least he was paying for it rather than forcing 12 year old boys to do it to him. Yeah, there ya go. There's something positive about it.

gotta agree with Beet on this one

[Okla-homey]

gotta agree with Beet on this one

Yeah, and its not like he solicited sex for money or anything. He just allegedly hit on another guy. If that can get you indicted, why aren't the Austin jails full to capacity?

[Scott D]

Yeah, and its not like he solicited sex for money or anything. He just allegedly hit on another guy. If that can get you indicted, why aren't the Austin jails full to capacity?

they only arrest you in Austin for being straight.

[DCSooner]

Ahhh. Memories of the Habana Inn. Great place to get great X.

What was that dance club over there? Around 93-94?

[Okla-homey]

Ahhh. Memories of the Habana Inn. Great place to get great X.

What was that dance club over there? Around 93-94?

Beaver Palace?

[DCSooner]

Beaver Palace?

Only beaver there had mullets.

[Mjcpr]

Weiner Palace?

Yep, that's the one DC liked to frequent.

[critical_phil]

Ahhh. Memories of the Habana Inn.



DCSooner LiKES IT iN THE PASTOR HOLE!!!!!!!111!!!

[soonerscuba]

Maybe I am completely wrong, but do men of the cloth seem to have a real high rate of jonesing the wang? The Catholic church has the petter asses, and not a month goes by that I don't hear about some snake handler running a church and child pornography ring. At this rate is anyone going to be surprised when it is found out that Pat Robertson has an army of Thai boys that service him on a pile of money every night?

And I know that for everyone deviant there are a 100 good ones, but it just seems strange to me.

[yermom]

non-men of the cloth weirdos don't make as much news

[yermom]

Ahhh. Memories of the Habana Inn. Great place to get great X.

What was that dance club over there? Around 93-94?

which one?

a buddy of mine married a girl he met at Angles

and that is girl not "girl" :D

[oumartin]

they should change the name to Banana Inn from what I've always understood.
I'm confused as to why DC has fond memories of such a place. Obviously I am missing something

[soonerscuba]

Good point.

[Stanley1]

The arrest took place in the parking lot of the Habana Inn, which is in an area where the public has complained about male prostitutes flagging down cars, Becker said.

I think Chick has some funny stories about this place, if I remember correctly.

Seriously.

[DCSooner]

which one?

a buddy of mine married a girl he met at Angles

and that is girl not "girl" :D

Angles it is.

Back in the day, if you wanted to go to a dance club that didn't play country, you went to Angles. There was a group of four of us that would go there every weekend. My girlfriend, her best friend, and her man. We had a blast.

[Stoop Dawg]

non-men of the cloth weirdos don't make as much news

They also don't stand in a pulpit every weeek and tell other people how to live thier lives.

[Mjcpr]

The arrest took place in the parking lot of the Habana Inn, which is in an area where the public has complained about male prostitutes flagging down cars, Becker said.

I think Chick has some funny stories about this place, if I remember correctly.

Seriously.

Did one of them try to run her over?



*runs away*

[yermom]

Angles it is.

Back in the day, if you wanted to go to a dance club that didn't play country, you went to Angles. There was a group of four of us that would go there every weekend. My girlfriend, her best friend, and her man. We had a blast.

we used to go with the international kids. the asians and european hotties liked going there on coin beer night

i drank my share of Zimas :O

i have also been dragged to the Rec Room once or twice, this not a good place, even i have my limits :eek:

[Stanley1]

You better run. :)

[Jerk]

Yeah, and its not like he solicited sex for money or anything. He just allegedly hit on another guy. If that can get you indicted, why aren't the Austin jails full to capacity?

Whether or not they can indict depends on what the definition of is, is.

[DCSooner]

we used to go with the international kids. the asians and european hotties liked going there on coin beer night

i drank my share of Zimas :O

i have also been dragged to the Rec Room once or twice, this not a good place, even i have my limits :eek:

Yep. Rec room too. There were always hot girls there. (and drag queens).

[oumartin]

this was overheard while the Pastor was being arrested.

Hey buddy, Theres nothing like getting a bj from somebody that knows what it feels like!

[yermom]

'Clip seems to like the Copa, but i've never been there

i've heard rumors of a gay cowboy bar somewhere, that sounds like it might be right up your alley DC ;)

[DCSooner]

'Clip seems to like the Copa, but i've never been there

i've heard rumors of a gay cowboy bar somewhere, that sounds like it might be right up your alley DC ;)

Why can't I quit you?

[yermom]

They also don't stand in a pulpit every weeek and tell other people how to live thier lives.

well, duh

that's why it makes news :D

[mdklatt]

I'm confused as to why DC has fond memories of such a place. Obviously I am missing something

I wouldn't say you're missing it, Bob.

[C&CDean]

Your honor, may I present exhibit 27G of why I don't frequent the churchouse?

A building full of the worst hypocrites on the planet - allegedly "leading others to God." Major bull****.

[Widescreen]

Your honor, may I present exhibit 27G of why I don't frequent the churchouse?

A building full of the worst hypocrites on the planet - allegedly "leading others to God." Major bull****.
I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences in church. I guess I've been really fortunate. I've been a member of 4 different churches in my life and have only felt the hypocrisy thing in 1.

[BeetDigger]

i drank my share of Zimas :O




Zimas are like mopeds and ugly women. Never let your friends see you with one.

[Scott D]

The arrest took place in the parking lot of the Habana Inn, which is in an area where the public has complained about male prostitutes flagging down cars, Becker said.

I used to sneak down there every weekend, man I have some funny stories about this place, if I remember correctly.

Seriously.

:eek:

[yermom]

Zimas are like mopeds and ugly women. Never let your friends see you with one.

unfortunately there are pictures floating around

at least i didn't bring them to DC's house

[lexsooner]

Kind of like Jimmy Swaggert. Except for the gay sex. :eek:

http://www.channeloklahoma.com/news/5845859/detail.html

OhU1, that sort of conduct is not unusual among individuals who manifest a very strong and rigid moral self-righteousness. Morally rigid individuals like this often mask deep-seeded sexual hangups.

For example, there is this guy at work who is an ultra right wing Catholic freak. He is ex-military, having to retire as an Army nurse after being passed over twice by the promotion board for Captain or Major. Seriously, this lump couldn't even make it to O-3 or O-4. Anyway, he is a very morally rigid individual who likes to argue about right to life, gays in the priesthood, political issues.

One time there was a historical e-mail put out about the history of minorities in the U.S. and it mentioned both good and bad events. Well, he responds to everyone with his e-mail and argues why such historical e-mails should only mention what is good about America, and not dwell on the bad, let's stand up and say the pledge of allegience, etc. etc.

Another time, he comes up to my office and demands that I speak to the new CEO about some interest of his department. He kept saying "If you don't, SHAME on you!" I picked up on his use of the word "shame." That meant something to me.

When things get heated and he is stressed, this guy also has this really weird facial contortion or twitch which appears. He will be talking to you and then suddenly his face will scruntch up in a contorted manner. Physically, he is a dumpy, overweight middle-aged white male who is balding and wears thick glasses.

Well all of the above has led me to the following conclusions: He likes young boys or girls; and/or he is a flamer; and/or he likes women's clothing or S/M. I described him once to a friend of mine who is a very skilled clinical psychologist, mentioning everything above. My psychologist friend matter of factly replied "He's a child molester."

[OklahomaTrombone]

KOTV just reported this guy is now on paid leave

[yermom]

now he has the time AND money to cruise for guys

[Scott D]

now he has the time AND money to cruise for dolemite

fixed.

[mdklatt]

fixed.

DOlEmITE doesn't need the money. He's got a hundred fiddy dollars in his wallet.

[Scott D]

DOlEmITE doesn't need the money. He's got a hundred fiddy dollars in his wallet.

now you know where he left his wallet.

[handcrafted]

Some perspective needs to be applied here.

Ministry is a profession, same as doctor, lawyer, banker, football player, etc. If the allegations are true, the guy did something that should get him fired. It's the same as if one of you got arrested for drunk driving and your boss fired you. Certainly, ministers are held to a much higher moral standard than lay people, and there are things that would get them fired that wouldn't matter in other professions, such as getting a divorce, for instance.

The guy has a serious problem and it's going to cost him his job, and most likely seriously damage his family relationships. You might be able to generate a little sympathy if you try. Besides that, becoming a pastor doesn't make a man any less of a sinner than other men. What is inside of him is inside of all of us. Any of you who want to get all self-righteous and start throwing rocks, better look at yourselves honestly.

You hate hypocrites. Wonderful. Jesus hates them too, and He said so quite a few times. And, of course I agree that there are hypocrites in the church. But whether or not this pastor qualifies as one depends on how and what he preached, and because I've never met or heard him, I don't know. But when you start confusing the character of the speaker with the message, you are committing a fallacy. As far as God is concerned, every human's "character" is the same: filthy. Every preacher is under the same vile curse as every murderer and child molester. Only God can change people into something they formerly were not, and put His righteousness on us. But even when He does that, we are still incomplete projects. We are in process, we want to progress, but the old filth is still there, clinging to us like Oklahoma red clay that won't wash out. We'll only be finished when we see Him face to face.

[Sooner_Bob]

Your honor, may I present exhibit 27G of why I don't frequent the churchouse?

A building full of the worst hypocrites on the planet - allegedly "leading others to God." Major bull****.


Dang Dean . . . what churches have you been to?

They're not all bad and shouldn't be labelled as such because of a few bad apples or mislead people.

If you're looking for a hypocrite all we as humans gotta do is look in the mirror.

[Okla-homey]

Some perspective needs to be applied here.

Ministry is a profession, same as doctor, lawyer, banker, football player, etc. If the allegations are true, the guy did something that should get him fired. It's the same as if one of you got arrested for drunk driving and your boss fired you. Certainly, ministers are held to a much higher moral standard than lay people, and there are things that would get them fired that wouldn't matter in other professions, such as getting a divorce, for instance.

The guy has a serious problem and it's going to cost him his job, and most likely seriously damage his family relationships. You might be able to generate a little sympathy if you try. Besides that, becoming a pastor doesn't make a man any less of a sinner than other men. What is inside of him is inside of all of us. Any of you who want to get all self-righteous and start throwing rocks, better look at yourselves honestly.

You hate hypocrites. Wonderful. Jesus hates them too, and He said so quite a few times. And, of course I agree that there are hypocrites in the church. But whether or not this pastor qualifies as one depends on how and what he preached, and because I've never met or heard him, I don't know. But when you start confusing the character of the speaker with the message, you are committing a fallacy. As far as God is concerned, every human's "character" is the same: filthy. Every preacher is under the same vile curse as every murderer and child molester. Only God can change people into something they formerly were not, and put His righteousness on us. But even when He does that, we are still incomplete projects. We are in process, we want to progress, but the old filth is still there, clinging to us like Oklahoma red clay that won't wash out.

I understand where you're coming from and indeed, I agree generally with what you're saying. But (there's alway's a "but", huh?) I would'nt want my barber, much less my pastor, cruising male prostitutes in some sleazy part of OKC.

He needs to resign immediately, whether he did it or not, and if he did do it, he needs to get into counseling ASAP.

He also needs to stop this business of his claiming he was "set-up" by the cops as was reported in this morning's Tulsa World. Shades of Marion Berry. Why in heck would the OKC fuzz "set-up" a South Tulsa baptist minister? He either asked the male under-cover cop to "party" in the sleazy motel room or the cop is lying. He's not gonna go to jail over this, but he's done as a Southern Baptist minister...one strike, you're out. They must be held to a higher standard. To do otherwise is kinda, well, catholic-y.

It looks pretty bad. I mean, the guy's down there, male hooker central, in the middle of the week, sporting a moustache which he ordinarily doesn't wear. Well, you know.

Anyway, the church will survive. It always has. He, however, needs a new line of work.

[FirstandGoal]

Some perspective needs to be applied here.

Ministry is a profession, same as doctor, lawyer, banker, football player, etc. If the allegations are true, the guy did something that should get him fired. It's the same as if one of you got arrested for drunk driving and your boss fired you. Certainly, ministers are held to a much higher moral standard than lay people, and there are things that would get them fired that wouldn't matter in other professions, such as getting a divorce, for instance.

The guy has a serious problem and it's going to cost him his job, and most likely seriously damage his family relationships. You might be able to generate a little sympathy if you try. Besides that, becoming a pastor doesn't make a man any less of a sinner than other men. What is inside of him is inside of all of us. Any of you who want to get all self-righteous and start throwing rocks, better look at yourselves honestly.

You hate hypocrites. Wonderful. Jesus hates them too, and He said so quite a few times. And, of course I agree that there are hypocrites in the church. But whether or not this pastor qualifies as one depends on how and what he preached, and because I've never met or heard him, I don't know. But when you start confusing the character of the speaker with the message, you are committing a fallacy. As far as God is concerned, every human's "character" is the same: filthy. Every preacher is under the same vile curse as every murderer and child molester. Only God can change people into something they formerly were not, and put His righteousness on us. But even when He does that, we are still incomplete projects. We are in process, we want to progress, but the old filth is still there, clinging to us like Oklahoma red clay that won't wash out. We'll only be finished when we see Him face to face.

I normally agree with most of your posts, but
You really think that a pastor getting a divorce should get him fired???

[Stoop Dawg]

Ministry is a profession, same as doctor, lawyer, banker, football player, etc.

Disagree. Ministers claim to know the answers to life. They stand in a pulpit and tell others how to live. Some even condemn others who don't believe as they do. Most of what they preach is "unprovable". That doesn't make it untrue, but when even they don't live the life they preach it sure puts a stain on that message. Must not be such a great thing they're standing up there talking about since not even they follow it.


Besides that, becoming a pastor doesn't make a man any less of a sinner than other men. What is inside of him is inside of all of us. Any of you who want to get all self-righteous and start throwing rocks, better look at yourselves honestly.

According to the Bible, when one becomes a Christian they are "born again" and become new. This is especially true among Baptists. According to this guy's denomination, he was never saved in the first place. Baptists don't "back slide".

Also, I'm not the one telling eveyone else how to live. I'm not the one who claims to have all the answers (or know the God who does).


But whether or not this pastor qualifies as one depends on how and what he preached, and because I've never met or heard him, I don't know.

He was Baptist preacher. The news article says he repeatedly lobbied against homosexual legislation. He is absolutely, 100% proof-positive a hypocrite.


But when you start confusing the character of the speaker with the message, you are committing a fallacy.

Then why are there any requirements at all for becoming a minister? Because the character of the speaker DOES matter. Always.

The failure of one minister does not undermine the entirety of Christianity. Not by a long shot. But trying to defend this guy in this instance is going to be problematic.

[OhU1]

Right Wing Catholic freak .


dumpy, overweight middle-aged white male who is balding and wears thick glasses.


I described him once to a friend of mine who is a very skilled clinical psychologist, mentioning everything above. My psychologist friend matter of factly replied "He's a child molester."

This guy sounds like Kevin Spacey's neighbor in "American Beauty" (played by Chris Cooper)! Creepy, watch out if he shows an overly obsessive fascination with guns.
BTW, "American Beauty" was a really good movie but does anyone think the real Kevin Spacey would have turned down a homosexual advance? I think Kevin got caught in London in a somewhat similar situation as our friend from South Tulsa. Spacey was "strolling" at 3 AM in a "gay area" and got into some kind of trouble a few years back. Shocking! - not

[lexsooner]

.





This guy sounds like Kevin Spacey's neighbor in "American Beauty" (played by Chris Cooper)! Creepy, watch out if he shows an overly obsessive fascination with guns.
BTW, "American Beauty" was a really good movie but does anyone think the real Kevin Spacey would have turned down a homosexual advance? I think Kevin got caught in London in a somewhat similar situation as our friend from South Tulsa. Spacey was "strolling" at 3 AM in a "gay area" and got into some kind of trouble a few years back. Shocking! - not

Yeah, but Hollywood types get a partial pass because odd or immoral behavior is expected from them. A Baptist minister getting caught is a tad different.

The guy from work is too non-macho namby pamby to be like Chris Cooper from American Beauty. He reminds you more of a doughy guy who wears a boy scout uniform with shorts as pack leader and sweats and sun burns a lot while he goes on hikes with his scouts, strangely disappearing behind the bushes with certain pack favorites during these hikes.

[lexsooner]

However, your observation about the Chris Cooper character from American Beauty is right on. Sometimes they doth protest too much.

When the morally-rigid guy from work came to implore me to go argue his case with the CEO, I digressed into a touchy subject - abortion. He reacted unusually calmly. I would like to say I changed the subject to get him off of his crusade to get me to argue his cause with the CEO; or I was interested in a good argument about an interesting and sensitive subject matter, abortion. However, to be perfectly honest, I just wanted to see his face contort and twitch.

[Widescreen]

According to the Bible, when one becomes a Christian they are "born again" and become new. This is especially true among Baptists. According to this guy's denomination, he was never saved in the first place. Baptists don't "back slide".
No offense but you don't know what you're talking about. The part I bolded is absolutely false. I don't have a problem with most of the other stuff you wrote, but I couldn't let that one slide.

[Stoop Dawg]

I've evidently been misinformed. I thought it was common knowledge that Baptists believed "once saved, always saved".

[Stoop Dawg]

http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/a/baptistdenom.htm


Perseverance of the Saints - Baptists do not believe that true believers will fall away and, thereby, lose their salvation. This is sometimes called, "Once saved, always saved." The proper term, however, is the final perseverance of the saints. It means that real Christians stick with it. It doesn't mean the believer won't stumble, but refers to an inward pull that will not allow him to quit the faith.

I mis-interpreted "once saved, always saved". Apologies to the Baptists.

[sanantoniosooner]

I've evidently been misinformed. I thought it was common knowledge that Baptists believed "once saved, always saved".
there are as many 'flavors' of baptist as there are ice cream.

I've always wonderd if Primitive Baptists ate with their fingers at church gatherings.

[sanantoniosooner]

http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/a/baptistdenom.htm



I mis-interpreted "once saved, always saved". Apologies to the Baptists.
Different groups interpret it differently. It can be very dogmatic, and it can be more loosely viewed.

[Widescreen]

The once saved, always saved is definately a belief of Southern Baptists (which is what the pastor in question is). Not sure about other types of Baptists though.

[Grimey]

Your honor, may I present exhibit 27G of why I don't frequent the churchouse?

A building full of the worst hypocrites on the planet - allegedly "leading others to God." Major bull****.

that's quite a broad brush there Dean

[handcrafted]

I normally agree with most of your posts, but
You really think that a pastor getting a divorce should get him fired???

In my denomination (PCA) as well as many others, a divorce disqualifies a man from the office of elder, of which teaching elder (or pastor) is a subset. It's our application of 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Officially, I think the SBC has the same policy, but a) it may not be enforced anymore, and b) because they're congregational, each individual church can decide for themselves who their pastor should be. Other churches or denominations, some more liberal, and some of which don't have any requirements for a pastor whatsoever, would not see divorce as an issue.

And don't anyone get the idea that I am defending this guy. Homey is right, he should resign from the ministry, and if he doesn't, the Deacon body of his church should force him out. I was just trying to explain that a professional minister isn't some exalted position that renders a person perfect, nor is a pastor expected to be perfect, in order to deliver his message. He is speaking God's word (if he's preaching rightly), not his own. As Stoop Dawg found out when he actually did some research :), being born again does not mean sinless perfection. The Bible is abundantly clear on that point. There are some fringe groups who believe that perfection can be attained in this life, but the Apostle John calls those people liars. The vast majority of Protestant Christians have the same view of "perseverance", or "once saved always saved". The Roman Catholics do not, however.

Character matters for ministers in order that they not bring the reproach of the world onto the church, and when they do, they get "de-frocked", as it were. But everybody is a sinner, so to require that a person be perfectly sinless in order to preach is silly, and obviously not what God intended. A minister who is honest with himself about his own weaknesses is in a much better position to speak to others who have weaknesses and call them to be honest. It doesn't sound like Rev. Latham was being honest with himself, or more likely actively self-deceptive. So, he needs to a) get his life together, and b) find another line of work. And I'm fairly sure that God will use Rev. Latham's life as an example to other ministers to "take heed, lest you fall."

[Stoop Dawg]

In my denomination (PCA) as well as many others, a divorce disqualifies a man from the office of elder, of which teaching elder (or pastor) is a subset. It's our application of 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Officially, I think the SBC has the same policy, but a) it may not be enforced anymore, and b) because they're congregational, each individual church can decide for themselves who their pastor should be. Other churches or denominations, some more liberal, and some of which don't have any requirements for a pastor whatsoever, would not see divorce as an issue.

I've asked this before and never gotten an answer (or I didn't see it, anyway). How does one that believes in "absolute truth" or "absolute morality" reconcile the fact that there are so many vastly different denominations who all claim to be "Christian"? Does that person believe that only their denomination "got it right"? What is to become of the other denominations?

[Stoop Dawg]

Character matters for ministers in order that they not bring the reproach of the world onto the church, and when they do, they get "de-frocked", as it were. But everybody is a sinner, so to require that a person be perfectly sinless in order to preach is silly, and obviously not what God intended. A minister who is honest with himself about his own weaknesses is in a much better position to speak to others who have weaknesses and call them to be honest. It doesn't sound like Rev. Latham was being honest with himself, or more likely actively self-deceptive. So, he needs to a) get his life together, and b) find another line of work. And I'm fairly sure that God will use Rev. Latham's life as an example to other ministers to "take heed, lest you fall."

Good answer. I can agree with all of that.

[handcrafted]

I've asked this before and never gotten an answer (or I didn't see it, anyway). How does one that believes in "absolute truth" or "absolute morality" reconcile the fact that there are so many vastly different denominations who all claim to be "Christian"? Does that person believe that only their denomination "got it right"? What is to become of the other denominations?

Tough question. Not sure that I have the answer. Just because absolute truth and morality exist, doesn't mean that we as imperfect mere mortals can know the answer to everything. Far from it. Some denominations believe that only they have it "right", others don't, and others believe only they have it "right" in some areas of belief, but not others (mine falls into the last category).

But the main reason is, humans are fallen sinful creatures, and our minds are clouded, so we try to know God as much as we can, but we make mistakes and have disagreements. However, if you look around I think you will find that all but the smallest percentage of churches who call themselves Christian will affirm the same basic beliefs contained in the Nicene Creed. No need to post it here, you can look it up online if you want.

[Okla-homey]

Just reported on local talk radio (740am) Latham has a gambling problem per a member of his church's lay leadership. The brother needs to deal with more than one demon. I hope he gets his life straightened-out. This has got to be a nightmare for his family.

[Boarder]

I've asked this before and never gotten an answer (or I didn't see it, anyway). How does one that believes in "absolute truth" or "absolute morality" reconcile the fact that there are so many vastly different denominations who all claim to be "Christian"? Does that person believe that only their denomination "got it right"? What is to become of the other denominations?
Here's the motto of the church I go to:
· It is our desire to fulfill the Great Commission by reaching our community for Christ by remaining culturally relevant, while living in light of biblical principles.
· We accept people from other denominational backgrounds with an attitude of respect for one another’s secondary beliefs. We believe that
Scripture commands us to “let there be real harmony so there won’t be divisions in the church.” (1 Corinthians 1:10, NLT) Therefore our doctrinal philosophy can be summarized with this maxim:

"In essentials unity,
in nonessentials liberty,
and in all things charity (love)."

·Our church strives to have a community focus in a continual effort to reach people for Christ.



So, basically, the core focus must be the same for all denominations, but whether or not you want to take communion or dance is up to you.

[achiro]

What I don't understand is why in the heck does someone that lives like that take a job in that profession!?!?!?! I mean come on, get an office job or something. I mean WTF!?!?!?!

[critical_phil]

i'm no doctor, but as far as addictions go:

sucking **** > gambling

[Widescreen]

The last Pope said that there were bishops in the Catholic church that do not believe Jesus was the Son of God. My reaction was very similar - why remain in the church then?

[Widescreen]

i'm no doctor, but as far as addictions go:

sucking **** > gambling

**** = eggs?

[critical_phil]

**** = eggs?


think Deadwood................

[jdsooner]

Lonnie Latham Resigns from Baptist Board

January 6, 2006 11:16 AM
by Heidi Wilburn

Oklahoma City, OK -- January 6, 2006 -- The Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma was notified late Thursday by Lonnie Latham that he was resigning from the BGCO Board of Directors effective immediately. Latham’s resignation comes following his resignation at South Tulsa Baptist Church. In his official letter of resignation to the BGCO, Latham stated the following: “I submit to you my resignation from the Board of Directors and as Recording Secretary for personal reasons.”



“We are deeply saddened by the recent events regarding Lonnie. We continue to be concerned for South Tulsa Baptist Church and the Latham family. We pray Lonnie will find healing and restoration as he seeks help for the issues he faces,” said Heidi B. Wilburn, spokeswoman for the BGCO. “Lonnie’s resignation has been accepted without the BGCO Board of Directors having to take initiative regarding the matter. Lonnie also indicated he has resigned from the Executive Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention.”

[jdsooner]

Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma Releases Statement Regarding Lonnie Latham

January 4, 2006 2:26 PM
by Heidi Wilburn

“The Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma is deeply grieved having heard the recent news regarding Lonnie Latham. Our first concern is for his church and family. As Christians we reach out to those who hurt; however, we fully support law enforcement in dealing with these matters. While we certainly do not condone this type of activity we do continue to care and pray for Lonnie during this difficult time,” said Heidi B. Wilburn, spokeswoman for the BGCO.

[jdsooner]

Latham's moral mess is big news in Oklahoma Baptist life because of the positions he held. He was on the Board of Directors for the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma, on the Executive Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, had served as Director of Missions in the Tulsa area, and had been an officer of the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma.

Since Southern Baptists are now officially fundamentalists, only those who are extremely conservative in theology, politics, and on moral issues are permitted in leadership. The two worst sins are abortion and homosexuality.

Obviously, Latham was living a double life. On the one hand, I feel that he made poor choices that have destroyed him. On the other hand, I wonder what is going on with him to drive him to such self-destructive behavior. What are the demons that torment this man?

[mdklatt]

This incident only deepens my suspicion of any dude name "Lonnie". "Lonnie" is that creepy guy down the block you tell your kids to stay away from. "Lonnie" is the dude who knows people who can get you free cable. "Lonnie" sells marijuana to seventh graders.

Don't read this if your name is Lonnie. :D

[Stoop Dawg]

However, if you look around I think you will find that all but the smallest percentage of churches who call themselves Christian will affirm the same basic beliefs contained in the Nicene Creed.

To take it further, if you look around I think you will find that all of the major world religions have the same basic beliefs. Is it possible that everyone is seeking the same "God"? Were do you draw the line as to what constitutes "basic beliefs"?

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8585

[Stoop Dawg]

Here's the motto of the church I go to:
· It is our desire to fulfill the Great Commission by reaching our community for Christ by remaining culturally relevant, while living in light of biblical principles.
· We accept people from other denominational backgrounds with an attitude of respect for one another’s secondary beliefs. We believe that
Scripture commands us to “let there be real harmony so there won’t be divisions in the church.” (1 Corinthians 1:10, NLT) Therefore our doctrinal philosophy can be summarized with this maxim:

"In essentials unity,
in nonessentials liberty,
and in all things charity (love)."

·Our church strives to have a community focus in a continual effort to reach people for Christ.



So, basically, the core focus must be the same for all denominations, but whether or not you want to take communion or dance is up to you.

Thanks for the answer. However, I wonder what constitutes "core focus" and who decided that? Not trying to be inciteful (pardon the pun), but this makes it sound like you can pick and choose the parts of the Bible you want to believe, or interpret, however you want. That doesn't seem like "absolute morality" to me.

[Widescreen]

Since Southern Baptists are now officially fundamentalists, only those who are extremely conservative in theology, politics, and on moral issues are permitted in leadership. The two worst sins are abortion and homosexuality.
Not sure what you mean about the "now officially fundamentalists". Is this something you're proclaiming or was there some kind of religion board that declared Southern Baptists to be fundamentalists?

By the way, the Baptists haven't changed - society has.

[jdsooner]

Anyone who is familiar with the last 30 years of Southern Baptist life knows that there has been a significant shift in leadership. Those who were moderate or liberal were expelled from leadership. Those who seized leadership can be accurately described as fundamentalists. Anyone who is not a fundamentalist in their theological perspective is not allowed to serve as a leader or teach in the seminaries.

Southern Baptists believe that the Bible is completely without error, believe that women cannot serve in ministry, believe that wives should submit to the leadership of the husband in the home, condemn abortion and homosexuality, and officially went on record as supporting the war in Iraq.

To serve in leadership, Latham had to be very conservative in beliefs and lifestyle. There is a major disconnect here that is astounding. It is hard to imagine a conservative Southern Baptist pastor cruising for sex on the streets of OKC. How long was this guy able to keep this kind of behavior hidden from others and how was he able to do it?

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#i

[ChickSoonerFan]

The arrest took place in the parking lot of the Habana Inn, which is in an area where the public has complained about male prostitutes flagging down cars, Becker said.

I think Chick has some funny stories about this place, if I remember correctly.

Seriously.

OMG!

Stories involving my Dad and The Habana Inn are not board appropriate.

But it is a funny story.

[C&CDean]

Dang Dean . . . what churches have you been to?

They're not all bad and shouldn't be labelled as such because of a few bad apples or mislead people.

If you're looking for a hypocrite all we as humans gotta do is look in the mirror.

Dang near all of em' Bob. Pentecostal, Pilgrim of Holiness, Nazarene, Methodist, Baptist, many "rock & roll" churches, and even got married in a Catholic one. I've got Mormon relatives, my folks are currently Salvation Army, and I'm actually Jewish by heritage (well half, anyhow).

My issue (and I've expressed it many times before - and there's a couple of folks on here who vehemently disagree, but that's OK, they're wrong) is that I abhor people who claim/preach/shout the gospel, who quote scripture by rote, who others deify, who everybody thinks are "called by God" to "lead others to Christ" - and in reality, live more wicked lives than those who deify them.

Then, there's the congregation/s. You know, the fat ladies who stand around after church and gossip about "did you see how short that huzzies skirt was" as they load up in cattle cars to go eat their weight in chicken fry down at the Furrs? The Sunday School teachers who are tapping the organ player? The greasy little ********** who tries to take you by the arm and tries to lead you to the altar to pray and help you "save your soul?"

And how about the church "board?" You know, the guys who get to pick where the $$ gets spent? And the deacons (I happen to know a Catholic deacon pretty well, and the only word in the English language I can use to describe him is "evil.")?

I got more ***** at church camp than anywhere else. Usually preacher's daughters. Smoked more dope, drank more Everclear, and raised more hell there than I did at home.

Sure, there's good people at church too. Just like there are at the grocery store or at the farm sale. The difference is nobody at the farm sale is trying to convince me they're righteous, and somehow know the way to heaven better than I do.

I very strongly believe in God, Christ, and The Bible. I very strongly do NOT believe in organized religion. I drove by the future home of a huge R&R church going up in Norman today at lunch. Know what it is? It's a whored up big $$ travesty of what my idea of Godliness, Holiness, and Righteousness is supposed to be. Millions of $$ on a building to "lead people to Christ." Yeah right.

[Jerk]

Dang near all of em' Bob. Pentecostal, Pilgrim of Holiness, Nazarene, Methodist, Baptist, many "rock & roll" churches, and even got married in a Catholic one. I've got Mormon relatives, my folks are currently Salvation Army, and I'm actually Jewish by heritage (well half, anyhow).

My issue (and I've expressed it many times before - and there's a couple of folks on here who vehemently disagree, but that's OK, they're wrong) is that I abhor people who claim/preach/shout the gospel, who quote scripture by rote, who others deify, who everybody thinks are "called by God" to "lead others to Christ" - and in reality, live more wicked lives than those who deify them.

Then, there's the congregation/s. You know, the fat ladies who stand around after church and gossip about "did you see how short that huzzies skirt was" as they load up in cattle cars to go eat their weight in chicken fry down at the Furrs? The Sunday School teachers who are tapping the organ player? The greasy little ********** who tries to take you by the arm and tries to lead you to the altar to pray and help you "save your soul?"

And how about the church "board?" You know, the guys who get to pick where the $$ gets spent? And the deacons (I happen to know a Catholic deacon pretty well, and the only word in the English language I can use to describe him is "evil.")?

I got more ***** at church camp than anywhere else. Usually preacher's daughters. Smoked more dope, drank more Everclear, and raised more hell there than I did at home.

Sure, there's good people at church too. Just like there are at the grocery store or at the farm sale. The difference is nobody at the farm sale is trying to convince me they're righteous, and somehow know the way to heaven better than I do.

I very strongly believe in God, Christ, and The Bible. I very strongly do NOT believe in organized religion. I drove by the future home of a huge R&R church going up in Norman today at lunch. Know what it is? It's a whored up big $$ travesty of what my idea of Godliness, Holiness, and Righteousness is supposed to be. Millions of $$ on a building to "lead people to Christ." Yeah right.

After becoming very religious last year, this is how I feel now....spot on. I also believe in God, Christ the Son, and the Bible...but I just don't dig religion and church. It is the most divisive subject I've evar witnessed. What's funny is....people will want to talk to you about their beliefs, but they don't want to hear yours.

[TexasLidig8r]

Now.. was he the "puffer" or the "puffee?"

If I remember my South Oval-ese correctly, being a "puffee" is not the same as being gay as a parade but being a "puffer" is...

[C&CDean]

Lid,

I'm just not sure how long I'm gonna be able to look at that orange abomination that is your sig. It puffs.

[handcrafted]

To take it further, if you look around I think you will find that all of the major world religions have the same basic beliefs.

Absolutely not true. The "basic beliefs" of Christianity are contained in the aforementioned Nicene Creed. No other world religion comes anywhere near believing what is contained in it. The Jews may seek God, but they seek Him wrongly. None of the other religions (not even Islam) worship the true God, the real God. All of the other world religions believe that you work your way into eternal happiness in the afterlife (if they believe in an afterlife, that is). Christianity is adamant that it is not possible for a person to work their way to God. God must come down and visit us, which He did. No other religion makes this claim.

[handcrafted]

And for Dean, and anyone else who believes that you can be a Christian without going to church: if you read the Bible, and believe what it says, then you will know about Hebrews 10:24-25, which says we should not neglect meeting together for corporate worship (along with other places in the NT as well).

[critical_phil]

And for Dean, and anyone else who believes that you can be a Christian without going to church: if you read the Bible, and believe what it says, then you will know about Hebrews 10:24-25, which says we should not neglect meeting together for corporate worship (along with other places in the NT as well).

i don't agree w/ dean, but it's not a salvation issue.

[handcrafted]

i don't agree w/ dean, but it's not a salvation issue.

Never said it was. Of course it's not. But you can't grow in your faith by yourself, and we are commanded to grow and be with other believers. If one persists in ignoring such a central command of God, one's faith may become damaged.

[Soonrboy]

And for Dean, and anyone else who believes that you can be a Christian without going to church: if you read the Bible, and believe what it says, then you will know about Hebrews 10:24-25, which says we should not neglect meeting together for corporate worship (along with other places in the NT as well).


and this little "love thy neighbor" gem from Leviticus 20:13...

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads

So, the preacher should be put out of his misery.

[C&CDean]

And for Dean, and anyone else who believes that you can be a Christian without going to church: if you read the Bible, and believe what it says, then you will know about Hebrews 10:24-25, which says we should not neglect meeting together for corporate worship (along with other places in the NT as well).

Dude,

What you're doing is exactly why I hate church. They're full of people who take a snippet of scripture, a half-a-verse, a tidbit of a chapter, and let's make it say what we want it to say. Why do you think there's so many different religions with so many different "manuals" and beliefs?

I surround myself with good people. I fellowship with other believers. I discuss the meaning of it all with others. I just don't do it up at the church house.

You do not need a building to have a church. You do not need a buttload of sinners gathered together to have a service. You don't need to have some fag with a bad hairpiece and capped teeth repeat the same lines over and over and over every Sunday morning to be redeemed. You don't have to "act" like a christian every Sunday morning to go to heaven. You don't have to stuff some moneygrubbing bastard's wallet every Sunday.

Trust me, I've been preached to my entire life about "going to church." Hate it. Always have. Other than when there's really talented folks singing/playing instruments.

[Jimminy Crimson]

Other than when there's really talented folks singing/playing instruments.

I'm guessing Dean won't be going to a Church of Christ anytime soon. ;)

On a side note, some of the best musicians I know are C of C. heh

[C&CDean]

What, Church of Christ people can't play instruments? If this is true, it's just Exhibit 28Q of why I don't go.

[Fugue]

Speaking of which,
Go see/hear the St. Olaf Choir in OKC on Feb. 2 at the First Presb. Church.

[Jimminy Crimson]

What, Church of Christ people can't play instruments? If this is true, it's just Exhibit 28Q of why I don't go.

I don't know the specifics about why not, maybe a resident CofC can chime in.

I just don't feel right in a church if there isn't music.

I'm Catholic, though, so I grew up with big *** organs and ****. :texan:

[Jimminy Crimson]

Speaking of which,
Go see/hear the St. Olaf Choir in OKC on Feb. 2 at the First Presb. Church.

one of the most gorgeous churches in oklahoma

[mdklatt]

The Jews may seek God, but they seek Him wrongly. None of the other religions (not even Islam) worship the true God, the real God. All of the other world religions believe that you work your way into eternal happiness in the afterlife (if they believe in an afterlife, that is). Christianity is adamant that it is not possible for a person to work their way to God. God must come down and visit us, which He did. No other religion makes this claim.

Then why are you certain it's Christianity that has it right?

[C&CDean]

I can honestly say the only times I've really enjoyed church growing up was when there was a gospel quartet. Especially when it was the whole service and we didn't have to listen to Brother Thomas, or Brother Roberson, or Brother Cullumber flap their gums for a couple hours.

[Mjcpr]

I don't know the specifics about why not, maybe a resident CofC can chime in.

I'm not either but Mrs Mj's grandma is a pretty staunch CofC person and apparently they're pretty adamant about this......among other things.

I am not a church/religious person at all, just thought I'd chime in on that.

[Pieces Hit]

As for me, I left my church after serving there in almost every capacity for 13 years.
It had become a navel gazing bless me club with a conceited and unkind leadership who manipulated people.
Am I bitter?
Yep.
I poured my life into that church only to be treated like crap.
I had my joy stolen there by dirty religion.
Am I saved?
I believe so.
Am I going back to any church any time soon?
For funerals and weddings but none at that old church of mine.

Church can be great if you find a great church.
I just don't really care to look anymore.

Rant over.

[soonerbrat]

I don't know the specifics about why not, maybe a resident CofC can chime in.

I just don't feel right in a church if there isn't music.

I'm Catholic, though, so I grew up with big *** organs and ****. :texan:


big *** organs?

that sounds kinda dirty

[Mjcpr]

big *** organs?

that sounds kinda dirty

I got yer big *** organ right here.

[1stTimeCaller]

I got yer big *** organ right here.
like the grand canyon

[Jimminy Crimson]

like the grand canyon

why do guys like the grand canyon so much?

its a ginormous cleavage :D

[mdklatt]

I got yer big *** organ right here.

I've heard that you like to get your hands on an organ every chance you get.

[Stoop Dawg]

Absolutely not true. The "basic beliefs" of Christianity are contained in the aforementioned Nicene Creed. No other world religion comes anywhere near believing what is contained in it. The Jews may seek God, but they seek Him wrongly. None of the other religions (not even Islam) worship the true God, the real God. All of the other world religions believe that you work your way into eternal happiness in the afterlife (if they believe in an afterlife, that is). Christianity is adamant that it is not possible for a person to work their way to God. God must come down and visit us, which He did. No other religion makes this claim.

How do you know the Jews seek Him wrongly? If you can definitively prove this, it will be big, big news. How do you know that Muslims don't worship the true God, the real God? And that you don't worship the wrong one? How do you know that you're not both worshiping the SAME God, and that He manifested himself differently to different cultures? You can't know (as we've discussed ad nauseum). You believe it, but you can't possibly *know* it. If you can prove any of it, it will certainly make front-page news across the world.

I'll say this for certain: If "absolute morality" exists, it sure isn't easy to understand.

[ChickSoonerFan]

I don't know the specifics about why not, maybe a resident CofC can chime in.

I just don't feel right in a church if there isn't music.

I'm Catholic, though, so I grew up with big *** organs and ****. :texan:

resident CofC...hehehe. Cute. I almost missed that. ;)

Church without music is not for me. But I don't think having no music in church is a sin.

That is ALL I am going to say!

[C&CDean]

How do you know the Jews seek Him wrongly? If you can definitively prove this, it will be big, big news. How do you know that Muslims don't worship the true God, the real God? And that you don't worship the wrong one? You can't know (as we've discussed ad nauseum). You believe it, but you can't possibly *know* it. If you can prove any of it, it will certainly make front-page news across the world.

I'll say this for certain: If "absolute morality" exists, it sure isn't easy to understand.

Amen brother. You show me somebody who tells me they know, in absolute terms, what the "answers" are, and I'll show you a ****ing lunatic.

[C&CDean]

Hey, we sucked Chick into a semi-meaningful thread. Good jorb chick.

[Stoop Dawg]

Then why are you certain it's Christianity that has it right?

I believe this question cannot be answered. At least not at the current time.

[Herr Scholz]

At this rate is anyone going to be surprised when it is found out that Pat Robertson has an army of Thai boys that service him on a pile of money every night?
No, that peaceful lamb of God is just into having foreign leaders assassinated, not kinky Thai boy sex.

[C&CDean]

No, that peaceful lamb of God is just into having foreign leaders assassinated, not kinky Thai boy sex.

That's good. I was beginning to worry about ol' Pat.

[Mjcpr]

That's good. I was beginning to worry about ol' Pat.

I'm fine. We need to have a beer some day.

[ChickSoonerFan]

Hey, we sucked Chick into a semi-meaningful thread. Good jorb chick.

You missed my church on Christmas Day debate?

I am not just a pretty face you know, I do have an opinion and am not afraid to voice it. ;)

[C&CDean]

You missed my church on Christmas Day debate?

I am not just a pretty face you know, I do have an opinion and am not afraid to voice it. ;)

pffffft. You're just saying that cause your boy Stan is in a drug-induced coma.

[Widescreen]

Amen brother. You show me somebody who tells me they know, in absolute terms, what the "answers" are, and I'll show you a ****ing lunatic.
Jesus.

[C&CDean]

Jesus.

Heh. Good one.

[ChickSoonerFan]

Jesus.

Spek...best answer EVAR!

[handcrafted]

Thread status report:

Stoop Dawg and mdklatt - ignoring my posts in other threads which address their issues, and which I know they have read.

Dean - just got schooled by Jesus and Widescreen. :D

[handcrafted]

What you're doing is exactly why I hate church. They're full of people who take a snippet of scripture, a half-a-verse, a tidbit of a chapter, and let's make it say what we want it to say. Why do you think there's so many different religions with so many different "manuals" and beliefs?

I haven't taken anything out of context. The meaning of that particular passage is very clear. I haven't "made it say" anything it doesn't. Read any commentary you like, listen to anyone preach on it that you like, they'll tell you the same thing.

The commandment to worship corporately is all through the Bible. You can ignore that if you want to, but it's there. I'll let you explain to Christ when you see Him why you decided to approach Him in any way you felt like, as opposed to the way in which He commanded you to.

[Stoop Dawg]

Thread status report:

Stoop Dawg and mdklatt - ignoring my posts in other threads which address their issues, and which I know they have read.

If you bothered to read any of my posts you would see that I referenced the fact that you've been unable to definitively prove your beliefs many times in many other threads. Here's the quote:


You can't know (as we've discussed ad nauseum).

[handcrafted]

and this little "love thy neighbor" gem from Leviticus 20:13...

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads

So, the preacher should be put out of his misery.

Don't confuse the moral principle with the penalty for violating it.

Moral principle - still applies today
Civil penalty - only applied to the nation of Israel in the Old Testament

Though there are some who believe that it would still in our time be Biblical for a nation to have the death penalty for sodomy, the USA does not have that law. In fact, your Supreme Court has told the states that they can't pass laws against it, period. That doesn't make it morally right, it just means that such acts may not be punishable by the government.

[handcrafted]

If you bothered to read any of my posts you would see that I referenced the fact that you've been unable to definitively prove your beliefs many times in many other threads. Here's the quote:

And you've been unable to definitively prove yours. I, however, have proven that my beliefs are coherent and worthy of certainty, whereas yours are incoherent, and therefore not.

[Jerk]

Handcrafted, you should go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday if you're going to get into the fine details. The Sabboth is not Sunday. Sunday was put into the religion by the Roman Catholic Church to appease the pagans, kind of like Christmas (Winter Solciste) and "Easter", the "immortal soul", praying to dead people before the ressurrection (St mary) and all of the other pagan things they put it in.

[Stoop Dawg]

And you've been unable to definitively prove yours.

Um, I haven't tried.

I give up. You win. Christianity is the answer (whatever the hell Christianity is, no one seems to be able to agree). Good on ya.

[Jerk]

Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified, died, and burried to take man's deserved punishment of death, and God resserrected him. What makes one a Christian is belief. That simple.

[Stoop Dawg]

Simple?

http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_Practices/Christianity/Denominations_and_Sects/

[mdklatt]

I, however, have proven that my beliefs are coherent and worthy of certainty.

I bet that a coherent case could also be made for Islam and Judaism, just to name a couple. The case that Christians make to "prove" the veracity of their religion isn't much different than the case other religious followers can make to prove theirs. And in many cases, a lot of it comes down to "because it says so in [insert appropriate holy book here]".

[FirstandGoal]

Wasn't there a vote on suspending religious threads for awhile?

[jdsooner]

I got more ***** at church camp than anywhere else. Usually preacher's daughters. Smoked more dope, drank more Everclear, and raised more hell there than I did at home.


Really? What church camp was that? I missed out on that deal.

[jdsooner]

And for what it is worth: "My definition of Christianity is that it teaches us to love God, love others, and love ourselves. It affirms that each person is loved by God and important to God." Therefore, this 'fallen saint" needs our prayers.

[mdklatt]

Really? What church camp was that? I missed out on that deal.

I saw the same kind of stuff (well, not exactly) when I worked at Astroworld. The church group kids were usually rowdy and up to no good.

[Kels]

I'm deeply troubled by this news. It's tragic for everyone involved. There will be negative reprecussions for his family, church, and the reputation of others in the Gospel ministry. I have seen this type of thing happen before. How horrible if it is true!

A godly man once told me, "Sin. It takes you farther than you wanted to go, keeps you longer than you wanted to stay, and makes you pay more than you wanted to pay."

As an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Convention, I am confessing to God my own propensity toward sin. My heart's desire is to walk in humility and holiness all the days of my life. I want to finish the race well, and lead my family to do the same. You know, apart from a regular and dynamic relationship with Jesus, Biblical community, and strict accountability there's nothing keeping me from bringing shame on my family and the name of Jesus as well.

[DCSooner]

I'm deeply troubled by this news. It's tragic for everyone involved. There will be negative reprecussions for his family, church, and the reputation of others in the Gospel ministry. I have seen this type of thing happen before. How horrible if it is true!

A godly man once told me, "Sin. It takes you farther than you wanted to go, keeps you longer than you wanted to stay, and makes you pay more than you wanted to pay."

As an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Convention, I am confessing to God my own propensity toward sin. My heart's desire is to walk in humility and holiness all the days of my life. I want to finish the race well, and lead my family to do the same. You know, apart from a regular and dynamic relationship with Jesus, Biblical community, and strict accountability there's nothing keeping me from bringing shame on my family and the name of Jesus as well.

SWEET! Now I don't have to go to church on Sunday!

[FirstandGoal]

You know what my pastor says about sin?

He compares it to a sneeze. If feels real good while you're doing it, but afterwards you're left with a big mess!

[Scott D]

You know what my pastor says about sin?

He compares it to a sneeze. If feels real good while you're doing it, but afterwards you're left with a big mess!

that was just your pastor's way of explaining 'the birds and the bees' to simpletons like Stanley.

[Jerk]

I'm deeply troubled by this news. It's tragic for everyone involved. There will be negative reprecussions for his family, church, and the reputation of others in the Gospel ministry. I have seen this type of thing happen before. How horrible if it is true!

A godly man once told me, "Sin. It takes you farther than you wanted to go, keeps you longer than you wanted to stay, and makes you pay more than you wanted to pay."

As an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Convention, I am confessing to God my own propensity toward sin. My heart's desire is to walk in humility and holiness all the days of my life. I want to finish the race well, and lead my family to do the same. You know, apart from a regular and dynamic relationship with Jesus, Biblical community, and strict accountability there's nothing keeping me from bringing shame on my family and the name of Jesus as well.

If I were half the Christian you are, I would never have to worry about my destruction in Gehenna. Well said. I pray this latham guy can begin to rebuild his life into a newer, better, man.

[handcrafted]

Handcrafted, you should go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday if you're going to get into the fine details. The Sabboth is not Sunday. Sunday was put into the religion by the Roman Catholic Church to appease the pagans, kind of like Christmas (Winter Solciste) and "Easter", the "immortal soul", praying to dead people before the ressurrection (St mary) and all of the other pagan things they put it in.

Sunday became the day of worship because that is the day on which Christ was resurrected. The idea of the immortal soul goes way back to the beginning. As for Christmas and Easter, it's true that they were set on pagan observance days to "Christianize" them, but the substance of them is sound. As for the Roman mariolatry, don't get me started. :P Anyway you've got a whole mixed bag of fruit there, so you can't compare them.

It's clear that the concept of Sunday (Lord's Day) worship had become common at least by the time that the Apostle John wrote Revelation, and it had nothing to do with converting pagans.

[Fugue]

Speaking of which,
Go see/hear the St. Olaf Choir in OKC on Feb. 2 at the First Presb. Church.

GO see this.