Reign in Blood by Slayer is better than anything Metallica ever did.

[GDC]

Just thought I'd throw that out.

[OUthunder]

For sure but Metallica pretty much sucked anyway after Master of Puppets.

Of course, they never blew as hard as Nirvana did but pretty darned close.

[GDC]

Okay, does this mean everyone agrees with me, or no one gives a FPOMF either way?

[the_ouskull]

I disagree. Metallica, especially in the earlier years, was much more diverse. Reign in Blood was a very in-your-face album, but they pretty much had one style of song and stuck with it. Master of Puppets. ...And Justice For All. THOSE are great albums, and diverse albums. There's a lot of different kinds of songs on each album. As far as production value goes, I think that the black album is Metallica's best album. As far as not being a bunch of whiny, sell-out b*tches goes, I think that everything since the black album has tainted Metallica's legacy and turned them into Alternatallica, which I hate.

So basically, I disagree. Although King and Araya throw it the Hell down (pun intended) in RiB, I don't think that it's a better all-around album than any of the three Metallica albums I've mentioned, and NEITHER band can touch Pantera.

the_ouskull

[achiro]

Yeah, gonna have to agree with skull on this one.

oh and bump :D

[Veritas]

What skull said.

And might I add, everything after AJFA succs.

[GDC]

I disagree. Metallica, especially in the earlier years, was much more diverse. Reign in Blood was a very in-your-face album, but they pretty much had one style of song and stuck with it. Master of Puppets. ...And Justice For All. THOSE are great albums, and diverse albums. There's a lot of different kinds of songs on each album. As far as production value goes, I think that the black album is Metallica's best album. As far as not being a bunch of whiny, sell-out b*tches goes, I think that everything since the black album has tainted Metallica's legacy and turned them into Alternatallica, which I hate.

So basically, I disagree. Although King and Araya throw it the Hell down (pun intended) in RiB, I don't think that it's a better all-around album than any of the three Metallica albums I've mentioned, and NEITHER band can touch Pantera.

the_ouskull

What's the best Pantera album, in your opinion?

[Pricetag]

What's the best Pantera album, in your opinion?
You didn't ask me, but I'd say Vulgar Display of Power. They went downhill pretty fast after that one, if you ask me.

[Veritas]

VDOP is my fave, even though I wasn't being asked. ;)

EDIT: I agree Pricetag...the first three (CFH, VDOP, FBD were by far the best).

[Veritas]

And FWIW Dimebag's tone is (was :( :mad: ) w/out question the most killer metal guitar tone ever, especially when he was still using Deans thru Randalls.

[GDC]

I've always been torn between AJFA and MOP as far as my favorite Metallica album.

And CFH as far as Pantera.

[Veritas]

If the bass were actually detectable in the mix on AJFA I'd favor it, maybe, but I say MOP because Cliff's playing was awesome on it...Orion RMFO.

Back to the initial subject....RiB...I loved it when I was a kid, mainly because I heard constanly how evil it was, how it would conjure Satan, etc. Now that I listen to it, 20 years later, it's just hard for me to take it seriously. The over-the-top occult stuff is just, well, over-the-top. MOP, also released in 1986, is a lot "deeper" album and I dunno, I can still jam out to it without feeling a little silly. Slayer, I sorta have to snicker because all that occult **** was a put-on.

[Pricetag]

Cowboys from Hell was solid, but Pantera hadn't quite become Pantera yet, though. You could still hear some of the arena rock influences in some of the stuff.

I remember seeing a picture of Pantera in a metal magazine in the early '90s that cracked me up. They looked like a glam rock band--Phil Anselmo had this long hair and one of those belts made out of bullets.

[BleedinSoonerRed]

Everything after 1985 sucks. :D

[Veritas]

Musically I always through Pantera was pretty solid, although there is definitely some cheese-metal influences in CFH. The solo on 10's from TGST is IMO one of Dimebag's best. However...it's like Anselmo started running out of lyrical inspiration after FBD. The lyrics on RTS were just silly, so much so that it almost (but not quite) distracted from the musicianship.

[Dio]

I'm not saying I don't like Pantera or Slayer, but...

As crappy/gay as Metallica looked during the Load era, they never looked like this:

http://www.sleazegrinder.com/images/teensleaze/pantera2.jpg
Nice hair, Phil. Did your boyfriend fix it for you?

And Slayer was basically a one trick pony: thrash, thrash, and more thrash. Well, two tricks if you include Satan.

80s Metallica owned them both.

Paging Unnamed Sooner...

[Big Red Ron]

While musically I somewhat agree with what you say, I couldn't ever get over the whole satan worshoping thing. I think Metallica made better albums with; "Master of Puppets", "Ride the lightning" and "Kill 'em All."

Early Nirvana didn't succ near as bad as Pearl Jam. Just sayin'.

[Big Red Ron]

I'm not saying I don't like Pantera or Slayer, but...

80s Metallica owned them both.

Paging Unnamed Sooner...Totally 100% agree.

[IR4OU]

Skull said it very well.

Metallica grew up and got old... oh and the Black Album was the shiznizle

[GDC]

Maybe I should have qualified my statement in terms of Slayer having the best album of pure speed metal relative to the others.

[Big Red Ron]

Maybe I should have qualified my statement in terms of Slayer having the best album of pure speed metal relative to the others.Well, in that case, Slayer was to speed metal that the Beatles were to rock and roll.

BTW, I really dig Slayer but am always afraid of going to hell after 20 or 30 minutes.

[Norm In Norman]

Did I mention that I might stop watching the Simpson's because Alternica is going to guest star?

I never was too much into Slayer. I had and liked South of Heaven, but I always liked Metallica better. I never got into Pantera very much either, and I don't know why.

Which albums of Pantera and Slayer should I try out first? I've got Far Beyond Driven and Cowboys from Hell from Pantera. I guess they are OK, but I don't go out o fmy way to listen to them. Looking through my list of slayer, I've only got one song - them covering Inna Godda Da Vida.

[IR4OU]

Metalica… and

Nothing Else Matters

[Frozen Sooner]

I disagree with many over the point at which Metallica began to suck the proverbial donkey ****.

I found AJFA to be pretentious, overblown, and self-indulgent.

When compared with Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets, it comes out much the worse.

South of Heaven is certainly a seminal speed-metal album, though, and ranks right up there with RTL and Puppets.

Exodus is a band that was doing some nice things in the late 80s as well and usually gets overlooked in these discussions. I loved "Toxic Waltz."

[Norm In Norman]

Songs on those 2 albums that are better than Harvester of Sorrow:

MOP
For whom the bell tolls

Um - I dunno what else. i think if I ranked all the songs from those 3 albums, they'd be pretty well distributed. AJFA would come out a bit worse, but not by much.

And the worst AJFA song is better than 99.999999999999% of the crap that's being spewed on the airwaves today. For the past 10 years for that matter...

[Frozen Sooner]

Fade to Black
Battery
Thing that Should not Be
Ride the Lightning
Leper Messiah
Damage, Inc

[Frozen Sooner]

Forgot Creeping Death. Great song.

[Norm In Norman]

I love all of those songs, but I still like Harvester of Sorrow better. And there are a lot of musical parts in AJFA that are just plain cooler than stuff in the older albums.

Still, for my money, I rate them:
MOP
KEA
RTL
AJFA
Black
Who cares...

And it's funny that I like the musical stuff going on in AJFA but to me KEA and MOP are almost tied for first. KEA is all about attitude.

[Norm In Norman]

Oh, and right now I'm listening to Oh Pretty Woman. How's that for a contrast? Orbison sure knew how to sing. Just playing that song on the guitar makes you kinda weepy.

[IR4OU]

Oh, and right now I'm listening to Oh Pretty Woman. How's that for a contrast? Orbison sure knew how to sing. Just playing that song on the guitar makes you kinda weepy.

Sniffin' paint will cause this type of episode.

Roy Orbison... did it.

[HoserSooner]

Fade to Black
Battery
Thing that Should not Be
Ride the Lightning
Leper Messiah
Damage, Inc

Can't argue with that list at all, with the addition of Creeping Death as you added. The best song live that I have ever seen (other than For Those About To Rock by AC/DC), with the extended "Die" chants from the crowd, and Newstead did a commendable job lyrically when he chimed in during the last verse.

I could never really get into Slayer too much. A bunch of guys that I worked with were into it big time, but outside of Seasons In The Abyss I didn't really get into it too much.

As far as Pantera goes, I have always been partial to Far Beyond Driven.

[Big Red Ron]

I always thought "Sanitarium"(sheesh my memory sucks) was under rated.

[SoonerObsession]

This whole discussion sounds like a conversation between Wayne and Garth. Rock on! :D

[GDC]

Exodus is a band that was doing some nice things in the late 80s as well and usually gets overlooked in these discussions. I loved "Toxic Waltz."

Yes, Exodus is underappreciated. I also thought Morbid Angel was pretty good.


AJFA will always be my favorite Metallica album.

[HoserSooner]

I also thought Morbid Angel was pretty good.

Saw them open for Motörhead & Black Sabbath (sans Ozzy) back in '94. Excellent show, but it was held in what is usually a dance club ( :confused: ), and the waitresses & bartenders didn't really appreciate the type of music being played.

It was fun to watch them cringe within the first few seconds of the Morbid Angel set. :cool:

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

If you like Morbid Angel go dig up some Celtic Frost.

It's hahd and it's good.

[12]

JPSOEKM

[Scott D]

CoF :)

[the_ouskull]

Too late. :D

Also, my favorite Pantera album kinda depends on what I'm in the mood for. I'm a child of the arena rock, glam band, hair metal era, so I'm kinda partial to crap like that. When I'm in that kinda mood, it's Cowboys From Hell. When I'm in a "I-wanna-kick-someone's-*ss" mood, it's Vulgar Display Of Power. (I used to listen to Regular People before my basketball games... I didn't take a lot of sh*t on the court. Lol.)

I agree about 80's Metallica, but Darrell is twice the guitarist that that Tito Puente wanna-be Kirk Hammett jerks off to pictures of. Vinny and Lars is a wash. Do you want "holy crap, how'd he do that" drumming or "man, that guy is technical" drumming. Also, bass is a wash with Newstead v. Rex. Although, with Cliff, Metallica would have the honors. And vocals is NO contest. Say what you will about Phil, but CFH, if nothing else, proved he had some "metal range." ...and he just looked more like he could kick your *ss than most lead singers.

...and as for that Pantera glam pic up above, just remember, when that album came out, there was a song on it called "P*ssy Tight." :D

And, believe it or not, you won't find me ragging on Nirvana OR Pearl Jam very much. I really respect their music. (Well, at least '10' by PJ and a couple of Nirvana's albums.... (Nevermind and the next one, whichever it was... with Heart Shaped Box. Great live show, too. I have some funny "Skullesque" stories from that concert... It's was like 93 or 94 and they were here with the Breeders.)

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

Goody, more Metallica talk... :D

First of all, For Whom the Bell Tolls was not on MOP, it was on RTL. My band used to cover it. FUN as HELL to play live. (Especially as the drummer...)

Okay, now that that's out of the way...

Big Red Ron...

Sanitarium is also one of my favorite Metallica songs. Reminded me of a Stephen King novella.

Norm...

If you're going to go with Pantera, try Vulgar first. Get into it a bit and then go back and listen to Cowboys... It'll help. After you've fully learned to appreciate those two, then you're ready for the rest of them. Just make sure you invite over some 'good friends and a bottle of pills.' :D

the_ouskull

[Pricetag]

And vocals is NO contest. Say what you will about Phil, but CFH, if nothing else, proved he had some "metal range." ...and he just looked more like he could kick your *ss than most lead singers.
I disagree here. Over the years, James Hetfield has shown some good versatility in his style, as well. On Kill 'Em All, he was really screeched it out. By the time the Black Album came out, he had evolved to a deeper, growling style. He showed some flashes in the handful of ballads on the first several albums of being capable of a more harmonious style, and it really began to show on and after the Black Album. Heck, I think James could be a killer country singer if he wanted to (and part of him does, I think).

Phil Anselmo shows surprising range considering his usual style, but I don't think he's a slam dunk vocalist choice over Hetfield.

[the_ouskull]

Well, it doesn't matter... (Although you are correct, and I can admit that... I was thinking more of what Hetfield's become than what he USED to be back in the VERY early 80's.)

...and it doesn't matter because of what I said about this guy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sichuevos/Dimebag.bmp

One of the best to EVER pick up an axe. Literally nothing he couldn't play and a great person to boot. He said it best in Vulgar Video: We're the kind of band, we're really all about our fans. We don't just say it. I'll share my beer with you and we'll just talk 'cause we're as big of fans of our fans as they are of us." F*ck that misguided soul that took him away too soon...

the_ouskull

[Partial Qualifier]

I disagree with many over the point at which Metallica began to suck the proverbial donkey ****.

I found AJFA to be pretentious, overblown, and self-indulgent.

When compared with Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets, it comes out much the worse.


I disagree somewhat. AJFA had a unique sound, like it was tightened up for playing at ridiculously loud volumes. I appreciated that. It was different, yes, but that Black album was the Biggest Disappointment Ever. That was the point their slide began.

[Norm In Norman]

I sorta liked the black album when it came out and consider it only the start of the selling out, not actual 100% selling out.

Although, I can't tell you the last time I actually listened to it. Everything previous I listen to quite a bit.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Well, it doesn't matter... (Although you are correct, and I can admit that... I was thinking more of what Hetfield's become than what he USED to be back in the VERY early 80's.)

...and it doesn't matter because of what I said about this guy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sichuevos/Dimebag.bmp

One of the best to EVER pick up an axe. Literally nothing he couldn't play and a great person to boot. He said it best in Vulgar Video: We're the kind of band, we're really all about our fans. We don't just say it. I'll share my beer with you and we'll just talk 'cause we're as big of fans of our fans as they are of us." F*ck that misguided soul that took him away too soon...

the_ouskull
I'm not much a fan of Pantera's music... but I do remember a night where Dimebag and his boys bought a bunch of pitchers for us at Night Trips. He was good people in my book.

[GDC]

I'm not much a fan of Pantera's music... but I do remember a night where Dimebag and his boys bought a bunch of pitchers for us at Night Trips. He was good people in my book.

Oh ****, I could then die a happy man. Was that in Tulsa?

I listened to VDOP at the gym today, classic.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Oh ****, I could then die a happy man. Was that in Tulsa?

I listened to VDOP at the gym today, classic.
Yeah, it was the Tulsa one. Some of the women worked at their club in Dallas and they came up now and then. I knew somebody that knew somebody that knew them and we ended up with some free beer.

Good times. :)

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Paging Unnamed Sooner...


Sorry, left my pager at home this weekend...

KEA through MOP. You just don't get that kind of music from anyone. Hands down some of the best songs.

Though I have never seen Slayer live, I have seen many bands, and you don't get a better live show than Metallica.

Plus you don't get cool avatars ;)

[Pricetag]

I'll never bash the Black Album because without it, I never would have given heavy metal a chance. That album dragged me kicking and screaming out of my rap phase, and I'll forever appreciate it for that reason.

[Veritas]

I'm dusting this one off. I was just about to post about how awesome Reign in Blood is, but then I remembered this thread.

There is just nothing better to listen to when writing code. Of course it causes me to write functions like:



function killTheBabies(oElement)
{
// gather up the children...
while (oElement.childNodes[0])
{
// ...and feed them to the gods
oElement.removeChild(oElement.childNodes[0]);
}
}

[colleyvillesooner]

best. ringtone. ever.