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Oldnslo
9/1/2005, 10:20 AM
Back when I prosecuted criminals for the Great State of Oklahoma, I came to the conclusion that almost anyone, in the right (or wrong) circumstances, was capable of doing almost anything.

Let's say you have suffered through, oh, I don't know, the complete destruction of everything you're familiar with, Your way of life... pretty much everything you know is overwhelmed. Help from someone else may or may not be available. If you have a family, you're kind of sure they're in the same upheaval that you are.

What are you capable of doing?

How long do you stay rational?

How long do you hang on to right and wrong as you currently know it?

Everyone has limits. How far out do you think your are? How close to the wall have you come?

Me? I'm pretty self-reliant--I've had two substantial upheavals in my life, once when I was a kid; once as an adult. I survive. I'm also pretty sure I don't go crazy, even if the aliens raise their flag/beacon over the Tulsa County Courthouse. I'm pretty sure I fight to the death. I think I'd be a bad mofo without the constraints of civilization.

That being said, I know that there's a point out there where I break, just because there has to be and I've seen other people reach their breaking point. I hope to God above that I never reach that point, but I know it's out there.

Now, I'm not trying to excuse the NO looters just because their limits seem to be... well below my own. But there is a time when I take guns and ammo and food and clothing, and I may or may not leave my credit card information, you know what I mean? But I wonder:

Do you?

critical_phil
9/1/2005, 10:26 AM
i have personally survived 3 pretty big natural disasters:

the may 99 tornado hit less than 1/4 mile from my house.

i was in san fran during the big one of 89.

i was in the philippine jungle when mt. pinatubo popped its top in 91, and we were stuck for days to find our way back with only the food/water we had on us.



(EDIT): i forgot. i lived in long beach, CA during the riots of 92. i think this also qualifies........


......i don't remember stealing anything.

KABOOKIE
9/1/2005, 10:28 AM
i have personally survived 3 pretty big natural disasters:

the may 99 tornado hit less than 1/4 mile from my house.

i was in san fran during the big one of 89.

i was in the philippine jungle when mt. pinatubo popped its top in 91, and we were stuck for days to find our way back with only the food/water we had on us.



(EDIT): i forgot. i lived in long beach, CA during the riots of 92. i think this also qualifies........


......i don't remember stealing anything.

Those disasters don't even come close to this one.

nmsoonergirl
9/1/2005, 10:34 AM
I think almost everyone can see themselves stealing food if they have a hungry child. (I know I can). Lots of people here can probably imagine stealing a gun if they felt they needed to protect their family. In those instances, right and wrong don't necessarily equal legal and illegal, and survival is a pretty strong instinct.

StoopTroup
9/1/2005, 10:34 AM
Remember when all thos Okies left home and went west.

Remember when they came back?

As long as it takes....

Mjcpr
9/1/2005, 10:37 AM
i have personally survived 3 pretty big natural disasters:

the may 99 tornado hit less than 1/4 mile from my house.

i was in san fran during the big one of 89.

i was in the philippine jungle when mt. pinatubo popped its top in 91, and we were stuck for days to find our way back with only the food/water we had on us.

(EDIT): i forgot. i lived in long beach, CA during the riots of 92. i think this also qualifies........
You don't live anywhere near me do you?

GottaHavePride
9/1/2005, 10:37 AM
Again, I think the ones that aren't doing everything they can think of to find food, water, clothing, etc. are probably morons. The ones I take issue with is the ones, say, sniping at the military helicopters trying to evacuate people. Arseholes to the lot of 'em.

Oldnslo
9/1/2005, 10:41 AM
The ones I take issue with is the ones, say, sniping at the military helicopters trying to evacuate people. Arseholes to the lot of 'em.
That's the thing. I'm guessing that those are some who have abandoned hope along with civilization. They've broken, and it "only" took a few days.

Remember the video of the guy who lost his wife and had his grandkids with him, saying he didn't have anyplace to go? He was broken, too, but he wasn't violent.

critical_phil
9/1/2005, 10:42 AM
You don't live anywhere near me do you?

it doesn't matter.

none of those were really serious disasters..............

Oldnslo
9/1/2005, 10:44 AM
i was in the philippine jungle when mt. pinatubo popped its top in 91, and we were stuck for days to find our way back with only the food/water we had on us.

When you feel like it, I'd love to hear this story.

IB4OU2
9/1/2005, 10:49 AM
i have personally survived 3 pretty big natural disasters:

the may 99 tornado hit less than 1/4 mile from my house.

i was in san fran during the big one of 89.

i was in the philippine jungle when mt. pinatubo popped its top in 91, and we were stuck for days to find our way back with only the food/water we had on us.



(EDIT): i forgot. i lived in long beach, CA during the riots of 92. i think this also qualifies........


......i don't remember stealing anything.

Pfffft,

I played golf in a fivesome of Hairy, Pat, GHP and Bob...............

StoopTroup
9/1/2005, 10:51 AM
Search yourselves for that matter...

As we watch all this unfold, doesn't it mess with your emotions?

You go from WOW!...to OMG...to I have to turn the TV off..to donating $...to What time is gametime...Back to the TV...to WOW!...to OMG...to....

Those folks sitting in the streets with their kids makes me sick to my stomach. They are past the point of rioting it looks like they'd get on the next bus out of there if there was one.

JohnnyMack
9/1/2005, 10:52 AM
I watched the Orange Bowl in January and we ran out of beer.

You wanna talk about seeing the worst of human civilization.

JohnnyMack
9/1/2005, 10:53 AM
Those folks sitting in the streets with their kids makes me sick to my stomach. They are past the point of rioting it looks like they'd get on the next bus out of there if there was one.

I know me too. But to where? To what?

Veritas
9/1/2005, 10:57 AM
I would imagine that if you had a conversation with the looters and shooters, you'd find a common sense of entitlement, that there was some convoluted logic justifying wanton theft and assualt. Now, I can't prove factually prove this, although there was a quote from a looter referencing how the looting was oppressed peoples getting back at society.

Much of the looting has zero to do with survival and everything to do with placating that sense of entitlement.

Mjcpr
9/1/2005, 11:07 AM
it doesn't matter.

none of those were really serious disasters..............
Oh, that's right. :D

critical_phil
9/1/2005, 11:10 AM
When you feel like it, I'd love to hear this story.

it's not much of a story.

i was "volunteered" to ride along w/ a group going through JEST school (jungle survival) because they were down a guy. there had been some minor eruptions and several earthquakes, but nothing big. a couple of days in, everything went to hell.

we were told that there were no resources to extract us d/t clark and subic being evacuated. so, we got to hump back to subic bay (which was covered in ash). i don't know how far out we were, but i'd guess about 40 km. it was like walking through a snow storm - except it was 100 degrees and the "snow" was eating through my skin....

when i finally did get back to a boat, i got stuck in a hanger deck because all of the berthing areas were taken by military dependents. after making about 4 trips between subic and cebu (sp?), i finally got a shower - it had only been about 10 days.........

KABOOKIE
9/1/2005, 11:16 AM
i was in the philippine jungle when mt. pinatubo popped its top in 91, and we were stuck for days to find our way back with only the food/water we had on us.

What were you going to steal in the Philippine jungle? :D

Oldnslo
9/1/2005, 11:25 AM
it's not much of a story.

*****.






;)

critical_phil
9/1/2005, 12:15 PM
*****.






;)


oh, i almost forgot.


they gave me a certificate of course completion.....


the end.

SactoSooner
9/1/2005, 12:48 PM
Heh.

Oldnslo
9/1/2005, 12:52 PM
oh, i almost forgot.


they gave me a certificate

the end.
So now you're a certified *****. <ducks>


:)

Thing is, you had all kinds of training, didn't give up hope, and persevered. The Superdome denizens, while God's creatures all, aren't by and large the cream of the crop that the South has to offer.

Penguin
9/1/2005, 01:03 PM
Somebody needs to delete this thread! :mad:

Everytime I see it on the South Oval page, I get that freaking R.E.M. song stuck in my head.

Veritas
9/1/2005, 01:06 PM
Ditto. It's been in my head, since, oh, about 10:20.

achiro
9/1/2005, 01:07 PM
Somebody needs to delete this thread! :mad:

Everytime I see it on the South Oval page, I get that freaking R.E.M. song stuck in my head.
heh! Me too!

Dude, no matter how you try to rationalize this, they were looting within a few hours. These "people" have no sense of right and wrong or maybe they do but they have ignored it for years. I've seen enough film of these people trashing places as they steal shoes, tv's, etc. I've seen people laughing and cutting up while doing it...that doesn't look "broken" to me.

critical_phil
9/1/2005, 01:11 PM
So now you're a certified *****. <ducks>


:)

somebody's begging for a certified *** whoopin'...........

Herr Scholz
9/1/2005, 01:13 PM
A lot of these people feel disenfranchised from society and will do whatever they can get away with. I'm not condoning their actions by any means but it's a situation where a lot of them are so impoverished they really don't have anything to lose.

Veritas
9/1/2005, 01:21 PM
A lot of these people feel disenfranchised from society and will do whatever they can get away with. I'm not condoning their actions by any means but it's a situation where a lot of them are so impoverished they really don't have anything to lose.
This is not a manifestation of a problem external to these individuals. It's a manifestation of an internal problem, namely that for whatever reason they have not learned to respect the property or person of other humans. They do not care that the items they are stealing belong to someone else, nor do they care that they are thieves.

To put it more concisely, I look at these looters and see people that are impoverished because of their lack of character. Others seem to look at them and see that they lack character because they are impoverished.

Oldnslo
9/1/2005, 01:22 PM
Check out the big brain on Veritas.

critical_phil
9/1/2005, 01:31 PM
To put it more concisely, I look at these looters and see people that are impoverished because of their lack of character. Democrats seem to look at them and see that they lack character because they are impoverished.



f1xeD!!!1

Herr Scholz
9/1/2005, 01:43 PM
Like I said, I wasn't excusing the actions at all, just trying to understand them. If you've got nothing to lose, why not? I agree that most of them are where they are due to their own decisions and actions. No one to blame but themselves.

WILDCAT NATION
9/1/2005, 01:53 PM
Seeing the looters reminds me of the "Reparations" skit on the Chappelle Show...

JohnnyMack
9/1/2005, 02:00 PM
“This is a national disgrace,” said Terry Ebbert, head of New Orleans’ emergency operations. “FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control,” Ebbert said. “We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims but we can’t bail out the city of New Orleans.".

nmsoonergirl
9/1/2005, 02:20 PM
I
Much of the looting has zero to do with survival and everything to do with placating that sense of entitlement.

You are absolutely right, V. I mentioned survival because Old's initial post asked us to think about OUR personal breaking points.
The looters who are stealing stuff that isn't needed for immediate survival are a totally different story. Even as the bleeding heart, tree hugging liberal that I am, I can honestly say that there is no excuse for their behavior. But at the same time, I'm not suprised by it--you can see that sense of entitlement throughout society, unfortunately, and I don't see it getting any better overall.
I don't think the looters are in the same class as the shooters, however. If you are shooting at an army helicopter who is trying to evacuate your flooded city, you are either evil or crazy (or most likely, both--we have a lot of marginally sane people who aren't hospitalized). And we don't need you around.

achiro
9/1/2005, 02:31 PM
There were several people there with boats ready to help and they were asked to leave because the boats were being shot at. Folks this is rediculous, these are animals they are dealing with. Help can't get there effectively if the help is attacked everytime they try to do something.

GDC
9/1/2005, 02:50 PM
I will repeat, if Monica Lewinski could swallow, all would be right with the world. :texan:

Gandalf_The_Grey
9/1/2005, 02:58 PM
The people that just take the food and water and things like that aren't really looters. Looters are the people who are taking the 40 inch tv's and 30 cases of Heineken. I can guarentee you if they are taking bottled water, gatorade, and basic food items, that they would probably have paid for them if someone from the store was there or if their money had not been destroyed by the storm.

Gandalf_The_Grey
9/1/2005, 02:59 PM
The key is to distinguish the looters from those just trying to survive!

critical_phil
9/1/2005, 04:17 PM
I will repeat, if Monica Lewinski could swallow, all would be right with the world. :texan:

it was funny the first time.

i guess it's still funny - i'm just a little lost. exactly how does monica's prowess on her knees have anything to do with al gore's lack of appeal to the public??

GDC
9/1/2005, 08:36 PM
it was funny the first time.

i guess it's still funny - i'm just a little lost. exactly how does monica's prowess on her knees have anything to do with al gore's lack of appeal to the public??





I guess the jist was without the Republicans playing up Clinton's indiscretions, Al Gore wins the election, no 9/11, no war in Iraq, no $3 gas, no hurricanes or tsunamis... ;)

RiddlerOK
11/18/2007, 01:43 PM
i have personally survived 3 pretty big natural disasters:

the may 99 tornado hit less than 1/4 mile from my house.

i was in san fran during the big one of 89.

i was in the philippine jungle when mt. pinatubo popped its top in 91, and we were stuck for days to find our way back with only the food/water we had on us.



(EDIT): i forgot. i lived in long beach, CA during the riots of 92. i think this also qualifies........


......i don't remember stealing anything.

You know Phil, this is really eeire:

Although I wasn't as close by on each of these events, I was still in the area, which makes it a little bit of a smaller world I guess..............

The May 1999 tornado hit about 12 miles south of my house.

I was in Vallejo during the big one of 1989, about 35 miles north of San Francisco.

I was in Subic Bay when Mt. Pinatubo erupted in 1991, and helped evacuate survivors from Clark Air Field (I was on the USS Long Beach (CGN-9) at the time).

I was in Seal Beach, CA visiting relatives when the riots erupted in 1992.

And, as an extra, I was in San Diego when the Northridge earthquake struck in 1994. The force of the aftershock traveled all the way down through the Rose Canyon fault in Pt. Loma and threw me out of bed. That was about 150 miles from the epicenter.

Coincidence? Strange? Weird, maybe......

Sooner Born Sooner Bred
11/18/2007, 01:47 PM
I thought this was about the Sooners losing two games this season. My bad.

RiddlerOK
11/18/2007, 01:49 PM
OK, I need to work harder on getting everyone's mind off the Sooners. I figured natural disasters would do it. The humanity!

OUinFLA
11/18/2007, 02:32 PM
Yeah, crap, I read the first post and wondered if this was applying to the football n00bs since last nights game.

I was loading up my Glock.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
11/18/2007, 03:21 PM
Back when I prosecuted criminals for the Great State of Oklahoma, I came to the conclusion that almost anyone, in the right (or wrong) circumstances, was capable of doing almost anything.

Let's say you have suffered through, oh, I don't know, the complete destruction of everything you're familiar with, Your way of life... pretty much everything you know is overwhelmed. Help from someone else may or may not be available. If you have a family, you're kind of sure they're in the same upheaval that you are.

What are you capable of doing?

How long do you stay rational?

How long do you hang on to right and wrong as you currently know it?

Everyone has limits. How far out do you think your are? How close to the wall have you come?

Me? I'm pretty self-reliant--I've had two substantial upheavals in my life, once when I was a kid; once as an adult. I survive. I'm also pretty sure I don't go crazy, even if the aliens raise their flag/beacon over the Tulsa County Courthouse. I'm pretty sure I fight to the death. I think I'd be a bad mofo without the constraints of civilization.

That being said, I know that there's a point out there where I break, just because there has to be and I've seen other people reach their breaking point. I hope to God above that I never reach that point, but I know it's out there.

Now, I'm not trying to excuse the NO looters just because their limits seem to be... well below my own. But there is a time when I take guns and ammo and food and clothing, and I may or may not leave my credit card information, you know what I mean? But I wonder:

Do you?Are you considering a job transfer to WACO?

Oldnslo
11/19/2007, 10:35 AM
I've visited Waco before.

No thanks.

soonerboy_odanorth
11/19/2007, 11:38 AM
A lot of these people feel disenfranchised from society and will do whatever they can get away with....but it's a situation where a lot of them are so impoverished they really don't have anything to lose.

So that's what leads you to the dark side of horn-dom.

Man that clears things up. :D