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jk the sooner fan
7/9/2005, 04:23 PM
he's about 3 hits shy of 3000........there are only 3 other players in major league history with 500+ home runs and over 3000 hits....

he was always one of my favorite Rangers.........unbelievable there are some writers who think he doesnt belong in the HOF

Harry Beanbag
7/9/2005, 04:52 PM
I don't see any valid reason to keep him out of Cooperstown. I've always liked how smooth and classy he plays the game.

tulsaoilerfan
7/9/2005, 08:53 PM
Raffy belongs in the hall with those numbers, and he's still producing in the twilight of his career; it's not like he has hung around and limped to 3000 hits.

jk the sooner fan
7/9/2005, 09:10 PM
has anybody noticed how much slimmer Sammy Sosa looks these days?

tulsaoilerfan
7/10/2005, 02:54 AM
has anybody noticed how much slimmer Sammy Sosa looks these days?
A lot of players look a lot slimmer this season, and from what i have read, home runs are down from last season and down big time from a few seasons ago :eek:

OUthunder
7/10/2005, 09:14 AM
I wish the Yanks would have gotten him about three years ago.

BeetDigger
7/11/2005, 11:58 AM
he's about 3 hits shy of 3000........there are only 3 other players in major league history with 500+ home runs and over 3000 hits....

he was always one of my favorite Rangers.........unbelievable there are some writers who think he doesnt belong in the HOF


There is no way to justify keeping him out of the HOF. The rationale that some people use is that he has played a long time and that didn't play in the post season.

First, playing a long time is PART of the criteria for being in the Hall. A lot of guys put up big numbers for a short time and they aren't in the hall (and shouldn't be).

Second, playing in the post season is not up to one guy. It takes a team to get there. For many guys, playing in the post season and WS is a part of being lucky enough to be on a winning team. The only knock that I have on Palmeiro is that he didn't accept a trade a couple years ago to a contender. But that isn't enough to keep him out of the hall. 3000 hits or 500 homeruns alone should get one to the hall. Together they leave no doubt. The only question (perhaps) will be if he is a first ballot inductee (which he should be) and with what percentage he goes in with (which will probably be in the 85% range).

BeetDigger
7/11/2005, 12:00 PM
has anybody noticed how much slimmer Sammy Sosa looks these days?

I have not, however I have noticed how much slimmer his stats continue to be. Can you say "done"?

colleyvillesooner
7/11/2005, 01:14 PM
has anybody noticed how much slimmer Sammy Sosa looks these days?

Pudge too...

jk the sooner fan
7/11/2005, 01:17 PM
yep i saw that....

hmmmm,

i'd love to see Raffy go to the HOF in a Ranger uni, he spent 10 years here, but my guess is that he'll have an Oriole cap on when he's inducted

colleyvillesooner
7/11/2005, 01:43 PM
yep i saw that....

hmmmm,

i'd love to see Raffy go to the HOF in a Ranger uni, he spent 10 years here, but my guess is that he'll have an Oriole cap on when he's inducted

Did you know the players no longer have a say in what hat they where in the hall? Wish I could find a link for that...

Here it is...http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0615/1568234.html


The Hall of Fame reserves the right to select which team a player will be identified with for induction. For example, Gary Carter will enter the Hall this summer as a member of the Montreal Expos, even though his wish was to go in as a member of the New York Mets.

jk the sooner fan
7/11/2005, 01:50 PM
yeah i was aware of that.......there was much discussion as to which uniform paul molitor would wear on his induction.......i think its crazy the player cant choose.......but i suppose the flip side to that is that the player doesnt run the risk of offending one city over another.....let MLB be the fall guy

GrapevineSooner
7/11/2005, 08:52 PM
Blame the likes of Jose Canseco, Wade Boggs, and the freaking Tampa Bay Devi Rays. When they signed with the Devil Rays several years back, their contracts included clauses that stated that if either were voted into the Hall, they'd go in wearing Devil Rays' hats, even though they only played a year or two there.

And yes, I think Raffy deserves to be in the HOF.

TUSooner
7/12/2005, 08:52 PM
Gary Carter was gracious about going in as an Expo. For me he will always be an Expo, and it's right for him to go in as one, since he played his best (and most) baseball up there.

soonerjoker
7/29/2005, 07:28 AM
Raffy is automatic for HOF.

mrowl
7/29/2005, 08:37 AM
not an automatic HOF, he has never been the best at his position at any point in his career.

jk the sooner fan
7/29/2005, 08:41 AM
he'll get there but he wont be a first ballot, or a second ballot for that matter

OklahomaTrombone
8/1/2005, 11:47 AM
Suspended for ten days (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/08/01/steroids.suspension/index.html?cnn=yes)

NEW YORK (SI.com) -- Rafael Palmeiro, who last month became the fourth member of baseball's 3,000-hit, 500-home run club, will be suspended for violating baseball's drug-testing plan, SI.com's Tom Verducci has confirmed.

The penalty for a first offense is a 10-day suspension without pay. The Orioles will make an announcement at 1:30 p.m. More details are forthcoming. The Players Association released a statement that its grievance on behalf of Palmeiro has been denied by the The Major League Baseball Arbitration Panel.

colleyvillesooner
8/1/2005, 11:48 AM
Suspended for ten days (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/08/01/steroids.suspension/index.html?cnn=yes)

NEW YORK (SI.com) -- Rafael Palmeiro, who last month became the fourth member of baseball's 3,000-hit, 500-home run club, will be suspended for violating baseball's drug-testing plan, SI.com's Tom Verducci has confirmed.

The penalty for a first offense is a 10-day suspension without pay. The Orioles will make an announcement at 1:30 p.m. More details are forthcoming. The Players Association released a statement that its grievance on behalf of Palmeiro has been denied by the The Major League Baseball Arbitration Panel.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44262

:mad: ;)

Stanley1
8/1/2005, 11:53 AM
Heh.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44264

GDC
8/1/2005, 11:53 AM
Heh, so much for the HOF for this adulterous viagra shill.

OklahomaTrombone
8/1/2005, 11:57 AM
your threads are not important.

BeetDigger
8/1/2005, 01:21 PM
There is no way to justify keeping him out of the HOF.


I stand corrected. :eek:

jk the sooner fan
8/1/2005, 01:26 PM
it wont keep sammy sosa out, it wont keep barry bonds out, it wont keep mark mcgwire out........nor will it keep raffy out...

out? no
delay? oh hell yes

TopDawg
8/1/2005, 02:38 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_335_images/031704_palmeiro.jpg


Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. My name is Rafael Palmeiro and I am a professional baseball player. I'll be brief in my remarks today. Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The reference to me in Mr. Canseco's book is absolutely false.

I am against the use of steroids. I don't think athletes should use steroids and I don't think our kids should use them. That point of view is one, unfortunately, that is not shared by our former colleague, Jose Canseco. Mr. Canseco is an unashamed advocate for increased steroid use by all athletes.



I said "steroids" not "drugs."

BeetDigger
8/1/2005, 02:52 PM
it wont keep sammy sosa out, it wont keep barry bonds out, it wont keep mark mcgwire out........nor will it keep raffy out...

out? no
delay? oh hell yes


I wouldn't be so sure about this. Their numbers all are terrific and hall worthy. If they find that these guys used enhancing drugs pervasively, then I would say the odds go down tremendously that they go in. Baseball writers are a fickle bunch. MAC's testimony, Sosa's large numbers decline and Palmeiro's suspension may be all it takes for enough writers to say "No".

GrapevineSooner
8/1/2005, 04:02 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_335_images/031704_palmeiro.jpg




I said "steroids" not "drugs."
Impeach him. :D

GrapevineSooner
8/1/2005, 04:04 PM
And Greg Williams of the The Ticket wins Asshat of the Day with his comment that Raffy is innocent until proven guilty.

Apparently Greggo didn't get the memo that Raffy's suspension came about because of a postitive drug test and his suspension was upheld because of that same positive drug test.

jk the sooner fan
8/1/2005, 04:10 PM
the baseball writers are going to have to come to grips with steroid use at some point, they'll either have to deny everybody under suspicion, or allow them all who were otherwise qualified

BeetDigger
8/1/2005, 04:16 PM
the baseball writers are going to have to come to grips with steroid use at some point, they'll either have to deny everybody under suspicion, or allow them all who were otherwise qualified


A positive test is more than suspicion. MAC's testimony, while not proof that he did anything, left a pretty bad impression on a lot of the writers.

mrowl
8/1/2005, 05:37 PM
LOL, this is soooo great listening to the Hardline eat crow! :D

And there is no way that Raffy goes to the HOF now. NO WAY.

GrapevineSooner
8/1/2005, 05:54 PM
So they've finally decided to talk about it?

It amazes me how much the guys at The Ticket will shill for friends in the sports world.

We saw it three years ago when Hitch was fired and we're seeing it today.

I'm convinced the only way Greggo would be convinced that his good buddy is on 'roids is if he was standing there not only witnessing Raffy pee into the cup but if he was actually holding the cup himself.

mrowl
8/1/2005, 06:02 PM
LOL.

GrapevineSooner
8/1/2005, 10:58 PM
OK, so I heard the segment the Hardline did on this subject during the Ticket Top 10.

I've gotta hand it to both Greggo (for coming around) and to Rhyner (who never really defended Raffy at any point during the segment). They gave Raffy the proper condemnation for essentially lying to them and called BS on his excuse that he didn't knowingly put steroids into his body.

On a side note, that excuse damns Raffy at least one of two ways. Either he's lying about intentionally using steroids, or he's admitted to using a black market substance that contained hidden steroids, since we all know no legal nutritional supplement contains steroids.

colleyvillesooner
8/2/2005, 09:40 AM
OK, so I heard the segment the Hardline did on this subject during the Ticket Top 10.

I've gotta hand it to both Greggo (for coming around) and to Rhyner (who never really defended Raffy at any point during the segment). They gave Raffy the proper condemnation for essentially lying to them and called BS on his excuse that he didn't knowingly put steroids into his body.

On a side note, that excuse damns Raffy at least one of two ways. Either he's lying about intentionally using steroids, or he's admitted to using a black market substance that contained hidden steroids, since we all know no legal nutritional supplement contains steroids.

It was nice to hear them not back down. They both admitted it killed them to talk about it cause they knew him and his family, but they love the game of baseball. What Raffy did is inexcusable, and he's the poster boy for all the other ones we KNOW are doing it. Their numbers were pretty telling too:

Year - games - HR every "xx" games
1988 - 152 - 8 - 19.0
1989 - 156 - 8 - 19.5
1990 - 154 - 14 - 11.0
1991 - 159 - 26 - 6.12
1992 - 159 - 22 - 7.22 (Canseco joins Rangers late 1992)
1993 - 160 - 37 - 4.32 15 Home run increase
1994 - 111 - 23 - 4.82 Same pace but injured
1995 - 143 - 39 - 3.66
1996 - 162 - 39 - 4.15
1997 - 158 - 38 - 4.15
1998 - 162 - 43 - 3.76
1999 - 158 - 47 - 3.36
2000 - 158 - 39 - 4.05
2001 - 160 - 47 - 3.40
2002 - 155 - 43 - 3.60
2003 - 154 - 38 - 4.05
2004 - 154 - 23 - 6.69 (steriod investigations in full swing)
2005 - 103 - 18 - 5.72 so far

TopDawg
8/2/2005, 10:01 AM
After the congressional hearing, Traber was talking about how he was impressed with Raffy's testimony and how adamant he was in denying that he'd ever used 'em. Traber thought Raffy's actions were indicative of a truthful testimony, but to me they seemed more like over-compensation. It seemed like Raffy was being overly demonstrative to cover up the fact that he was lying.

jk the sooner fan
8/2/2005, 10:09 AM
maybe raffy......when testifying to congress.....was talking about that specific day, but omitted it from his speech

"i have never ever taken steroids today"

GDC
8/2/2005, 10:19 AM
I wonder if he still denies sleeping with his teammate's wives. He is a low life.

jk the sooner fan
8/2/2005, 02:23 PM
here's a really interesting take by Jason Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2122193)

TopDawg
8/2/2005, 02:31 PM
maybe raffy......when testifying to congress.....was talking about that specific day, but omitted it from his speech

"i have never ever taken steroids today"

Heh. He muffled "today" by clearing his throat each time he said that.

Someone should fark his fingers being crossed in that picture.

TopDawg
8/2/2005, 02:33 PM
here's a really interesting take by Jason Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2122193)

that is interesting...thanks

mrowl
8/2/2005, 03:03 PM
here's a really interesting take by Jason Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2122193)

he is still a cheater, and should not be allowed in the HOF.

colleyvillesooner
8/2/2005, 03:16 PM
here's a really interesting take by Jason Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2122193)

I don't agree with that AT ALL! 3000 hits and 500 hrs, with the help of steroids. this makes me sick.

jk the sooner fan
8/2/2005, 08:17 PM
another interesting take (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8801236/)

i'm not at all sold on the fact that Raffy was taking roids for bulk.....it is possible that as an older player he was given supplements to help his body recover from the daily grind.....he has a surgically repaired knee.....i'm not saying this is what happened, im saying its a possibility

tulsaoilerfan
8/2/2005, 09:53 PM
he is still a cheater, and should not be allowed in the HOF.
Oh hell, baseball has always been full of cheaters; would Gaylord Perry have won 300 plus games without cheating? Don Sutton is another pitcher that cheated and is in the Hall of Fame; who knows how many other superstars in the last 20 seasons have tainted numbers? Maybe the Hall should just open a wing for the "Steriods era" to separate those players from earlier players.

John

BeetDigger
8/3/2005, 08:41 AM
another interesting take (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8801236/)

i'm not at all sold on the fact that Raffy was taking roids for bulk.....it is possible that as an older player he was given supplements to help his body recover from the daily grind.....he has a surgically repaired knee.....i'm not saying this is what happened, im saying its a possibility


NYTimes is reporting that it was a steroid, same one that Ben Johnson used. It wasn't one that was hidden in a supplement.

Ryan Franklin is claiming that he got his from a nutritional supplement.

colleyvillesooner
8/3/2005, 08:45 AM
NYTimes is reporting that it was a steroid, same one that Ben Johnson used. It wasn't one that was hidden in a supplement.

Ryan Franklin is claiming that he got his from a nutritional supplement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2123113


The New York Times, citing a person in baseball with direct knowledge of the sport's drug-testing program, reported on its Web site Tuesday that Palmeiro tested positive for the drug known by the brand name Winstrol, most notably linked to the Olympic sprinter Ben Johnson of Canada.

Johnson was stripped of his 100-meter gold medal in 1988 after testing positive for stanozolol.

"It's a mildly strong to strong steroid," Dr. Gary Wadler, a professor at New York University and an expert in sports doping, told the Times. "Potent is the word I would use."

jk the sooner fan
8/3/2005, 08:55 AM
yeah it looks worse for Raffy.......i really want to believe him, he was one of the good guys.......and i suppose seeing a guy like him test positive just really rattles my overall impression of where the sport is.......i just wonder what percentage of players are on the juice

just really disappointing

colleyvillesooner
8/3/2005, 09:00 AM
yeah it looks worse for Raffy.......i really want to believe him, he was one of the good guys.......and i suppose seeing a guy like him test positive just really rattles my overall impression of where the sport is.......i just wonder what percentage of players are on the juice

just really disappointing

Exactly how I felt. This would be like Mike Modano or Jay Novacheck testing positive. Just one of the good guys you'd never suspect. Makes me think how bad his body is if he was still taking them after all the hearings.