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jk the sooner fan
12/6/2004, 09:38 AM
did anybody see the interview documentary that accompanied this show on the History Channel - "We Stand Alone Together"

man oh man....talk about your heroes. i watched it after re-watching the entire series.........incredible, really hard to put into words what these men, and others like them, mean in the grand scheme of our history

if you get a chance to watch it, i highly recommend it

Howzit
12/6/2004, 09:43 AM
Did you read the book, JK?

jk the sooner fan
12/6/2004, 09:47 AM
no, its next on the list

Howzit
12/6/2004, 09:49 AM
We win.

OklahomaTrombone
12/6/2004, 09:50 AM
That documentary rocks.

The whole series rocks.

Best 80 bucks I ever spent.

sooner_born_1960
12/6/2004, 09:51 AM
incredible, really hard to put into words what these men, and others like them, mean in the grand scheme of our history

Refered to as the "Greatest Generation" for a good reason.

SoonerProphet
12/6/2004, 09:54 AM
It is a great little ending to the series. Seeing old Bill Garnier and Babe Heffron overlooking Foy is good stuff. Plus the first person testimonials of Carwood Lipton, Winters, and the like is great primary source documentation from a history point of view.

jk the sooner fan
12/6/2004, 09:54 AM
Refered to as the "Greatest Generation" for a good reason.

yep

jk the sooner fan
12/6/2004, 09:56 AM
It is a great little ending to the series. Seeing old Bill Garnier and Babe Heffron overlooking Foy is good stuff. Plus the first person testimonials of Carwood Lipton, Winters, and the like is great primary source documentation from a history point of view.

that scene got to me......i cant even imagine standing in a place like that where now it looks so pristine......when 50 years ago it was a living hell for those guys......the bastogne chapter in the series is probably the most accurate depiction of just how bad it was for them

SoonerProphet
12/6/2004, 10:01 AM
Both D-Day and Citizen Soldiers are excellent books by Ambrose as well. Have not read his Air Corps book yet, my grandfather was a tailgunner/engineer in a B-26 and a POW. Those old timers are passing away daily, will always have much respect for those that laid it on the line in the early 1940's.

jk the sooner fan
12/6/2004, 10:07 AM
my youngest has read most of Ambrose's books, I need to rob his bookshelf and see whats available

i've read Citizen Soldiers

GDC
12/6/2004, 10:49 AM
My father has every book written by Ambrose, I've read quite a few of them.

crawfish
12/6/2004, 11:06 AM
I bought my dad the box set for Christmas, and it's got that doc on the last disc. I hope he watches it quickly so I can borrow it back... :)

instigator
12/6/2004, 11:10 AM
did anybody see the interview documentary that accompanied this show on the History Channel - "We Stand Alone Together"

man oh man....talk about your heroes. i watched it after re-watching the entire series.........incredible, really hard to put into words what these men, and others like them, mean in the grand scheme of our history

if you get a chance to watch it, i highly recommend itThat's actually better than the series. It was great to finally see the names of the people that you have been seeing speaking before each episode. I remembr when it was on HBO and I couldn't believe what I was watching. What a terrificly produced history based mini series.

NYSooner1355
12/6/2004, 11:48 AM
I've watched the series probably 4 or 5 times, back in June The History Channel ran the series over two days. I sat around both days just watching everything. The last part which JK is talking about has never failed to hit me emotionally.

Especially when Maj. Winters says the part about one of his soldiers grandkids asking if he was a hero in the war and he says "No, but I served with a bunch of them"...I'm getting chills thinking about it.

There is a website dedicated to Maj. Winters and their goal is trying to persuade the DoD to get Maj. Winters the Congressional Medal of Honor for his actions in securing the firing positions portrayed in the second part (I think it was the secon part).

NYSooner1355
12/6/2004, 11:49 AM
That's actually better than the series. It was great to finally see the names of the people that you have been seeing speaking before each episode. I remembr when it was on HBO and I couldn't believe what I was watching. What a terrificly produced history based mini series.

Hanks and Spielberg are teaming up again for another 10 part series portraying the war in the Pacific. If it is half as good as Band of Brothers it will be phenomenal.

VMG
12/6/2004, 12:06 PM
Like the books, liked the HBO series, liked SPR, visited Normandy this past summer, love my father (living USMC combat veteran of some of the worst stuff in the Pacific...), and certainly believe that we honor earlier generations of American veterans for good reasons. However...

...I think terms such as the "greatest generation" (unintentionally) relegate America's greatness to its past. The younger generation (of which I am not a member) of Americans who wear the uniforms of the nation's armed services are every bit the equal of those we venerate as the "greatest generation." They are bright, eager, incredibly brave and do amazing things when well-led. I see it every day. America should be very proud that it still raises such fine young men and women. They are a reflection of the nation they serve -- not without flaws, but certainly worthy of respect and admiration for their commitment to the ideals America holds dear.

picasso
12/6/2004, 12:07 PM
Here's the best BOB website out there:

http://www.kramerg.com/tircuit/

Actual members of the 501st post there along with family members.
I haven't been there in a while but there's some good sutff, photo's, stories, and you can send a note to the guys.

We should also remember the guys who came in from the other side through Italy.
My gf's grandfather fought through there and it was a living hell.

NYSooner1355
12/6/2004, 12:17 PM
...I think terms such as the "greatest generation" (unintentionally) relegate America's greatness to its past. The younger generation (of which I am not a member) of Americans who wear the uniforms of the nation's armed services are every bit the equal of those we venerate as the "greatest generation." They are bright, eager, incredibly brave and do amazing things when well-led. I see it every day. America should be very proud that it still raises such fine young men and women. They are a reflection of the nation they serve -- not without flaws, but certainly worthy of respect and admiration for their commitment to the ideals America holds dear.

I tend to agree with you especially regarding todays men/women serving in Iraq/Afghanistan.

But, it took an act so heinous and cowardly for that to be the case - and I see some parallels between todays men/women and those of WWII.

GDC
12/6/2004, 01:35 PM
Hanks and Spielberg are teaming up again for another 10 part series portraying the war in the Pacific. If it is half as good as Band of Brothers it will be phenomenal.

That's where my grandfather served, in the Phillipines mostly.

Kels
12/6/2004, 05:03 PM
My uncle served with the Army Air Corps in New Guinea in '43. He said that they would sleep with wooden collars around their necks, because the Japanese would sneak into the camp and slit GI's throats. Can you possibly imagine?

My other uncle fought with Patton's 3rd Army in France and Germany. He was only 17, but talks about how they would walk machine-gun fire right up the behinds of running German soldiers.

Since my undergrad degree was in history, I've always enjoyed talking with veterans about their experiences. My next door neighbor fought in the Ardennes and St. Mihel in WWI. He was gassed, hit in the chest with shrapnel (saved only by the gas mask hanging around his neck), and lost his hearing due to the shelling. He saw the Red Baron one evening at sunset. He said everyone knew Richthofen's plane, becauase he flew a Fokker Tri-plane painted blood red.

The father of a friend of mine was a Marine in the battalion that had the highest kill-ratio in Vietnam. He killed so much, that he said by the time he came home at 19, he could have killed his own mother without thinking. He said that by the end of his tour, shy Marine teenagers would get into arguments over who got to kill a VC running across a rice paddy.

I've always wondered, how do men like this come back to taxes, mowing the yard, and rush-hour traffic? I would be a basket-case if I experienced what those men had.

We owe them, and all of our veterans, combat or otherwise, an unpayable debt of gratitude.

VMG
12/6/2004, 07:27 PM
...But, it took an act so heinous and cowardly for that to be the case - and I see some parallels between todays men/women and those of WWII.

The vast majority of folks who went to Afghanistan and Iraq were already in uniform when the events of Sept 11th took place. No doubt there are some who felt compelled to serve in the wake of those tragic events, but the recruiters haven't been overrun with volunteers.

The military hasn't changed much since September 11th. What has changed is how the American public views/understands that military -- a military comprised of folks basically just like them.

GDC
12/6/2004, 07:50 PM
The vast majority of folks who went to Afghanistan and Iraq were already in uniform when the events of Sept 11th took place. No doubt there are some who felt compelled to serve in the wake of those tragic events, but the recruiters haven't been overrun with volunteers.

The military hasn't changed much since September 11th. What has changed is how the American public views/understands that military -- a military comprised of folks basically just like them.

I went down that morning and tried to sign up. The Marines said I had to be in my twenties and the Army said 35 was their cut-off point. I was 37 at the time. If I couldn't go Army or Marines I didn't want to go, so I didn't ask the Air Force or Navy recruiters.

Sooner04
12/6/2004, 08:21 PM
Hanks and Spielberg are teaming up again for another 10 part series portraying the war in the Pacific. I absolutely cannot wait for that. The great uncle I never met served and died in the Philippines.

Poor Uncle Vanoy was shot by a sniper but made it out of the battlefield. Then, while recovering in the field hospital, died in his bed from a previously undetected blood clot. :(

KaiserSooner
12/6/2004, 08:30 PM
I can't wait for the Pacific series either.

Band of Brothers is excellent. Both the movie and the book....read the book if you haven't yet done so.

Also, it is well worth the coin to buy the dvd box set. It has the documentary you all are talking about, as well as a documentary of the actors going through a 10-day training camp by Dale Dye. It's awesome too, and narrated by Ron Livingston, of Office Space fame.

KaiserSooner
12/6/2004, 08:35 PM
By the way, my family is a rarity in that neither of my grandpas fought in WW2. Since both happened to be the oldest in their family, and both of their fathers also happened to die on the eve of the war, both ran their families' farms and were considered essential farm labor.

Just one of those weird things I guess.

Interestingly, my maternal grandpa had been in the army from 1939 until the summer of 1941, when his dad died and he was discharged.

NYSooner1355
12/6/2004, 11:21 PM
For those that read Band of Brothers you might be interested in another book, which was apparently one of the things that got Ambrose interested in researching the parachute infantry. The book is Parachute Infantry: An American Paratrooper's Memoir of D-Day and the Fall of The Third Reich, written by David Kenyon Webster (Pvt. Webster the Harvard student who ended up dying after the war in a boating accident)

Here is a link: http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=0385336497

I haven't started reading it yet, but I plan to start it once this semester ends.

KaiserSooner
12/6/2004, 11:36 PM
You beat me to the punch NY, on Webster's book.

Here's his website run by his family...lots of good info:

http://www.davidkenyonwebster.com/

NYSooner1355
12/7/2004, 08:10 AM
You beat me to the punch NY, on Webster's book.

Here's his website run by his family...lots of good info:

http://www.davidkenyonwebster.com/

Kaiser: Have you read Webster's book?

homerSimpsonsBrain
12/7/2004, 10:41 AM
I read an account of one of the guys in the 101st at bastogne. He talked about being in a fighting hole and having German tanks driving by so close you could reach out an touch them. He said that doesn't sound too bad till you realize that if the driver has seen you, he locks a tread and spins the tank around over your position. Grinding you slowly into the ground. Guy must have had balls of steel.

KaiserSooner
12/7/2004, 06:53 PM
Kaiser: Have you read Webster's book?
I haven't, but definitely want to. It's on my to buy list of books.

I've perused the website his family setup...and it's pretty interesting. It has excerpts from his book, his diaries, and the many sketches he made of the war.

It also talks about his (likely) death, which in itself is pretty interesting.

picasso
12/8/2004, 12:17 PM
I read an account of one of the guys in the 101st at bastogne. He talked about being in a fighting hole and having German tanks driving by so close you could reach out an touch them. He said that doesn't sound too bad till you realize that if the driver has seen you, he locks a tread and spins the tank around over your position. Grinding you slowly into the ground. Guy must have had balls of steel.

Was that book titled: "The seven roads to hell," or something like that?
I read that once, since been lost.
The book had a pic on the cover of two soldiers walking near a snow covered barn.
I recall part of it where a brave lad was walking about in the thick fog and feeling his way right up next to German Panthers and then blasting them point blank with his Bazooka.

picasso
12/8/2004, 12:19 PM
http://www.history-asia.com/Seven_Roads_to_Hell__A_Screaming_Eagle_at_Bastogne _0440236274.html

SoonerProphet
12/18/2004, 09:03 PM
Well, with some of the gift card action I recieved I went and picked the David Kenyon Webster book today.

jk the sooner fan
12/18/2004, 11:13 PM
books i'm getting for christmas - band of brothers, george washington - his excellency (which i'm REALLY looking forward too) and the new Jeff Shaara book on WWI (to the last man)

KaiserSooner
12/19/2004, 12:51 AM
Dang it. I keep on forgeting about that Webster book.

For Christmas, it looks like I'll be getting Antony Beevor's books on the fall of Berlin and the Spanish Civil War, an atlas of Jewish history, and Dickens' American Notes.

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2004, 12:08 AM
finished band of brothers yesterday

damn, what incredible men they were

picasso
12/28/2004, 12:22 AM
Please give us a review of the Webster book.
I've read the BOB book a few times. Good stuff.
I'm currently working on "A Time for Tumpets." Battle of the Bulge book, very hard to read though, way too much info to process.
Also have a biography about Picasso's Guernica that I can't wait to dive into.

SoonerProphet
12/28/2004, 12:46 AM
Please give us a review of the Webster book.
I've read the BOB book a few times. Good stuff.
I'm currently working on "A Time for Tumpets." Battle of the Bulge book, very hard to read though, way too much info to process.
Also have a biography about Picasso's Guernica that I can't wait to dive into.

Webster's book was a fast read, I enjoyed. It was a pretty straight from the hip account of a "ground-pounder" in WWII. He doesn't write much about the training at Tacoa or what motivated him to join the airborn. It begins right around jump time. Some interesting tidbits on his personal feelings upon reading the letter from Ike and his duty to the "oufit" above anything else. He hated chicken****, most of his officers, cept Winters and Spiers, the French and cursed the British 2nd Army for the catastophe of Market Garden. Loved the Dutch, he felt the Germans deserved what they got but respected them more than the French.

All and all it was a great read by a soldier in WWII. Self admitted goldbrick, educated, and a eloquent author.

SoonerProphet
12/28/2004, 12:50 AM
Now reading Tuchman's Guns of August. Read many an excerpt and discussed it in terms of the outrbeak of WWI, but never read the damn thing myself.

KaiserSooner
12/28/2004, 01:06 AM
Also have a biography about Picasso's Guernica that I can't wait to dive into.
Cool. Sounds like it'll go into a little background info concerning the bombing of Guernica. I myself am starting a book on the history of the Spanish Civil War.

KaiserSooner
12/28/2004, 01:07 AM
Now reading Tuchman's Guns of August. Read many an excerpt and discussed it in terms of the outrbeak of WWI, but never read the damn thing myself.
Dang it, I wish I could remember the authors and their titles, but there's a butt load of new literature out on WWI, and some of it highly praised. I read a review of them in either the New Yorker or the Atlantic several months ago.

jk the sooner fan
12/28/2004, 01:10 AM
jeff shaara has a new one out based on WW1.....he wrote gods and generals, among others....

BajaOklahoma
12/28/2004, 01:27 AM
My father-in-law's family saved all of the letters that he wrote them during WWII. He borrowed the letters and typed them up - giving each of his kids a copy. Very good reading.

My grandmother's brothers all served in WWII - Pacific. One of them made the Death March. He came back crazy as ****. He scared me when I was younger.

KaiserSooner
12/29/2004, 12:13 AM
Dang it, I wish I could remember the authors and their titles, but there's a butt load of new literature out on WWI, and some of it highly praised. I read a review of them in either the New Yorker or the Atlantic several months ago.
http://newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/?040823crat_atlarge

Eureka. Here we go....the Hew Strachan and David Stevenson books are the ones I was thinking of.

JohnnyMack
10/23/2006, 10:44 AM
http://www.the-pacific-war.com/

Bumppity.

85Sooner
10/23/2006, 11:16 AM
http://www.the-pacific-war.com/

Bumppity.
'

Great, the pacific had a few heros too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

instigator
10/23/2006, 11:19 AM
Sweet! BoB was terrific. This looks like it won't be out for a while though.