Muslim database?

[Serenity Now]

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-says-he-would-certainly-implement-muslim-database-n466716

Try to even murmer the words "gun" and "database" in the same sentence and you invoke the "shall not be infringed" crowd. Are we about to be so afraid that we ignore the Constitution's freedom to practice religion? The terrorists are winning.

[hawaii 5-0]

"There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases." ----- Trump

He didn't say it but forcing them to sew a crescent onto their clothes would be a start. Then a nifty numbered tattoo on their forearm.

5-0

[BoulderSooner79]

Can you imagine the spam email they would get trying to sell them burkas and death-to-america bumper stickers? That's cruel and unusual.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Can you imagine the spam email they would get trying to sell them burkas and death-to-america bumper stickers? That's cruel and unusual.

That would only be a problem if the majority of them were literate.

[FaninAma]

Databases are a horrible idea. Once a datbase is created for one segment of our society the easier it is to create one for other segments. Progressive actions by the government (by both parties) continue to erode our civil liberties. George Bush was as bad as Obama....maybe worse. If you are concerned about a specific group posing a national security threat the first common sense course of action would be to allow fewer members of that group into the country if you cannot monitor that group within the frame work of our Constitution..

[Serenity Now]

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39821/nra-opposes-terrorist-gun-ban/

Classic.

[Serenity Now]

That would only be a problem if the majority of them were literate.

Really?

[FaninAma]

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a39821/nra-opposes-terrorist-gun-ban/

Classic.

So,is the terrorist watch list a database that proves a person is a terrorist? If not, how do you condemn creating one database that could be used to infringe on a person's Constitutional rights(i.e. the muslim/religion database) and support the creation of another database and use it to infringe on the rights(2nd admendment) of a person that appears on that list? If the individuals on the terrorist watch list are guilty of supporting terrorism then arrest them and prosecute them. If they haven't been charged with anything then they can't be denied of their Constitutional rights.

This is exactly why data bases are evil and dangerous things. They are too often used and abused by government bureaucrats to infringe on Constitutionally protected rights.

BTW, just a little 411 for further consideration: be very wary of anything that Peter King supports. He is as big of an anti-civil libertarian as there is in the country outside of Obama and his DoJ, NSA and IRS departments.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Lie! Made up crap by the lame stream media to corner Trump and paste questions and sound bites to their progressve **** end. The lsm are Effing traitors and morons!

[Serenity Now]

Lie! Made up crap by the lame stream media to corner Trump and paste questions and sound bites to their progressve **** end. The lsm are Effing traitors and morons!

Yeah, and he didn't mean to make a crude and RUDE menstruation swipe at Megan Kelly when he said she was "had blood coming out of her...wherever". Maybe you should go to one of those liberal fact check sites to further feed your right wing paranoia that everyone's out to get you. Don't forget to google the boogeyman.

[East Coast Bias]

So,is the terrorist watch list a database that proves a person is a terrorist? If not, how do you condemn creating one database that could be used to infringe on a person's Constitutional rights(i.e. the muslim/religion database) and support the creation of another database and use it to infringe on the rights(2nd admendment) of a person that appears on that list? If the individuals on the terrorist watch list are guilty of supporting terrorism then arrest them and prosecute them. If they haven't been charged with anything then they can't be denied of their Constitutional rights.

This is exactly why data bases are evil and dangerous things. They are too often used and abused by government bureaucrats to infringe on Constitutionally protected rights.

BTW, just a little 411 for further consideration: be very wary of anything that Peter King supports. He is as big of an anti-civil libertarian as there is in the country outside of Obama and his DoJ, NSA and IRS departments.

Since you are all about constitutional rights, where do you stand on Gitmo? All is fair in war?

[Serenity Now]

Since you are all about constitutional rights, where do you stand on Gitmo? All is fair in war?
US citizens are not imprisoned in gitmo. We would have probably been better off putting two in the head of those at gitmo instantly. It would have been cheaper. It's a bad pr move as it builds more terrorists over time. Should have just been a black site. I mean colonel jessup is not low key.

[Serenity Now]

So,is the terrorist watch list a database that proves a person is a terrorist? If not, how do you condemn creating one database that could be used to infringe on a person's Constitutional rights(i.e. the muslim/religion database) and support the creation of another database and use it to infringe on the rights(2nd admendment) of a person that appears on that list? If the individuals on the terrorist watch list are guilty of supporting terrorism then arrest them and prosecute them. If they haven't been charged with anything then they can't be denied of their Constitutional rights.

This is exactly why data bases are evil and dangerous things. They are too often used and abused by government bureaucrats to infringe on Constitutionally protected rights.

BTW, just a little 411 for further consideration: be very wary of anything that Peter King supports. He is as big of an anti-civil libertarian as there is in the country outside of Obama and his DoJ, NSA and IRS departments.
Given that we have sold about 2,000 weapons to people on the terrorist watch list I would say that their rights are not being infringed. If we have a reasonable feeling that they are potential terrorists then we need to pay attention to them. I don't mind profiling. My Pakistani friend always jokes that he always is randomly selected at the airport. He doesn't mind. He's a Muslim. By the way, his Ramadan observance is more than most Christians would go through.

[East Coast Bias]

US citizens are not imprisoned in gitmo. We would have probably been better off putting two in the head of those at gitmo instantly. It would have been cheaper. It's a bad pr move as it builds more terrorists over time. Should have just been a black site. I mean colonel jessup is not low key.

I don't disagree but find it interesting the crowd that is all about rights is okay with holding people without charges or trial indefinitely.Pretty sure most of the prisoners are not connected to Isis or AlQueda, but that could be googled easy enought. I am all about dealing with the threats directly

[FaninAma]

Since you are all about constitutional rights, where do you stand on Gitmo? All is fair in war?
Charge them, prosecute them and sentence them(or turn them loose if they are found not guilty). I don't care if it is a military tribunal or civilian court. They should be afforded counsel and the same protections we would want our military members to receive from enemies if they were captured. I don't see a big reason to keep Gitmo open but I don't advocate Obama unilaterally closing it without consent of Congress as required by statute.

[FaninAma]

I don't disagree but find it interesting the crowd that is all about rights is okay with holding people without charges or trial indefinitely.Pretty sure most of the prisoners are not connected to Isis or AlQueda, but that could be googled easy enought. I am all about dealing with the threats directly
So Serenity's purpose in linking to the esquire article was to express his support for the GOP in voting down the restrictions for those on the watch list? Good to hear. Profiling does not equate into denial of rights.

[SoonerorLater]

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-says-he-would-certainly-implement-muslim-database-n466716

Try to even murmer the words "gun" and "database" in the same sentence and you invoke the "shall not be infringed" crowd. Are we about to be so afraid that we ignore the Constitution's freedom to practice religion? The terrorists are winning.

Correct, but rights are not without limits. You have a criminal conviction and your right to carry a weapon could go away. You commit a crime and your right of religious freedom is still intact. What you are suggesting isn't a one for one comparison. Keeping a database of Muslims is nothing more than pragmatic given that Islamists are the foremost practitioners of terror in the world today. It would in no way prevent them from practicing their religious beliefs.

Further muddying the waters is the fact than Islam is more than just a religion, at least in the Western sense.

[East Coast Bias]

So your purpose in linking to the esquire article was to express your support for the GOP in voting down the restrictions for those on the watch list? Good to hear.

No purpose to the comment, just a general observation. I actually agree with your stance on this and acknowledge the consistency of your argument. While I profess to be a liberal, I have recently moved to Georgia and my wife says I am turning into a conservative. I bought a pickup truck and a gun, I want to fit in of course. She still drives a Prius...

[yermom]

All it takes is someone to put someone's name on a list to get in Gitmo, or to talk to or know the wrong person. There are plenty of stories about innocents there.

Denying due process doesn't work in the US, why is it OK there?

[yermom]

Also, it's real hard to get off the no fly list. That can have citizens on it as far as I know. I wouldn't really trust that gun owners couldn't accidentally end up on that list :)

[FaninAma]

No purpose to the comment, just a general observation. I actually agree with your stance on this and acknowledge the consistency of your argument. While I profess to be a liberal, I have recently moved to Georgia and my wife says I am turning into a conservative. I bought a pickup truck and a gun, I want to fit in of course. She still drives a Prius...
Sounds like you'll get there. I'm a conservative with a huge libertarian streak.

[olevetonahill]

All it takes is someone to put someone's name on a list to get in Gitmo, or to talk to or know the wrong person. There are plenty of stories about innocents there.

Denying due process doesn't work in the US, why is it OK there?

Can you link us to some of those stories of the Innocents imprisoned at Gitmo?

[East Coast Bias]

Can you link us to some of those stories of the Innocents imprisoned at Gitmo?

I don't know about any of them being innocent, but if you do the google work you will be appalled at some of the stuff we have done. I read that a NY Times report in 2004 said only 24 of the over 700 prisoners were connected to AlQuaida. That right there should scare your pants off...

[BoulderSooner79]

Also, it's real hard to get off the no fly list. That can have citizens on it as far as I know. I wouldn't really trust that gun owners couldn't accidentally end up on that list :)

You got that right and I have personal experience with well intentioned lists. Before the '04 election, there was a writer publishing articles critical of the Bush administration, claiming Bush used the Iraq war to boost his campaign. I happen to have the same first and last name of that writer and I found myself on the no fly list. Quite the shock the first time I discovered it as I tried to get a boarding pass. The ink on the Patriot act was barely dry and it was already being abused. It was intended to keep terrorist from getting on planes, and it was almost instantly used to harass political foes. It took me years to get off that list and I was flying pretty frequently at the time. It took me an extra 20-30 minutes to get cleared for every flight had to do it at ticketing. I later saw an article by the same guy and confirmed he was on the no fly list, but the harassment was worse. I just had to prove I wasn't him - he was grounded. He claimed he was unjustly harassed by the IRS too.

[FaninAma]

Boulder, sorry to hear about your ordeal. That is exactly the kind of abuse from an out-of-control federal government that frightens me. I am surprised after your experience that you would even consider supporting any political party that advocates for a bigger government with more control over our lives. This would include the GOP establishment and most if the Democratic party.

[yermom]

Can you link us to some of those stories of the Innocents imprisoned at Gitmo?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/04/former-state-department-official-team-bush-knew-many-at-gitmo-were-innocent/275327/

There was a movie about one guy that was a taxi driver, but I don't remember it. I think HBO made it.

[BoulderSooner79]

Boulder, sorry to hear about your ordeal. That is exactly the kind of abuse from an out-of-control federal government that frightens me. I am surprised after your experience that you would even consider supporting any political party that advocates for a bigger government with more control over our lives. This would include the GOP establishment and most if the Democratic party.

It was an annoyance, but not a huge impact on my life. It did prove to me that if you hand over control like that, it will be abused, so you better put in some sort of watch-dog protection from the get go. I actually was not against the idea of a system to keep terrorists off planes and I wouldn't have even been that upset if I landed on the list because of mistaken connections to a terrorist (as long as I had a way to clear myself). But it burned my a.ss that I was collateral damage of system abuse with no way to clear myself. I'm not a big fan of either party, they both contribute to building our huge central government. The social platform of GOP just crosses too many lines for me, so I can't go there. If they would go more libertarian in those areas, I give them a look.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yeah, and he didn't mean to make a crude and RUDE menstruation swipe at Megan Kelly when he said she was "had blood coming out of her...wherever". Maybe you should go to one of those liberal fact check sites to further feed your right wing paranoia that everyone's out to get you. Don't forget to google the boogeyman.

i listened to the recording, the stupid news reader kept inserting his comment into something Trump was saying.

[FaninAma]

I had an assistant DA try to intimidate me because I disagreed with a an out of control CPS workers actions. It turned out the case against the family was totally fabricated and I was vindicated. The assistant DA backed off after my attorney threatened to file a complaint against her with the state Bar.

Boulder, So besides the abortion issue what other social issues bother you a out the GOP? Even as a strong libertarian the Democrats affection for instituting regulations and control over large parts of our lives is a far worse trend. I've seen the effects as a small businessman and a physician. The Gestapo like power of the IRS and other regulatory agencies is frightening. Democrats=larger government and more government control. Democrats used to at least give lip service about civil liberties but they don't any more. They are as bad as the GOP establishment in that regards.

[dwarthog]

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-says-he-would-certainly-implement-muslim-database-n466716

Try to even murmer the words "gun" and "database" in the same sentence and you invoke the "shall not be infringed" crowd. Are we about to be so afraid that we ignore the Constitution's freedom to practice religion? The terrorists are winning.

Not sure if serious....

N.Y. newspaper's gun-owner database draws criticism

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/26/gun-database-draws-criticism/1791507/

[olevetonahill]

Not sure if serious....

N.Y. newspaper's gun-owner database draws criticism

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/26/gun-database-draws-criticism/1791507/

Some of these Morans dont seem to realize every one of us is on some kinda Gov Data Base list

[FaninAma]

Some of these Morans dont seem to realize every one of us is on some kinda Gov Data Base list
You are right. I guess where we go as a nation depends on whether we the people are willing to let idiot politicians on both sides to use those databases to manipulate and intimidate us.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

SN, may people have no issues for people to practice their religion. But to give a free pass to Muslims at the expense of Christians (which zippy is doing), when we are a Christian country with a Judeo-Christian ethic and basis is WRONG!

[dwarthog]

Some of these Morans dont seem to realize every one of us is on some kinda Gov Data Base list

Exactly! We are in so many databases that the issue isn't if you are in one, but rather the governments ability to cross link or data mine those different databases for whatever "public safety" reason they can conjure up.

Don't forget traffic cameras and other video recording devices that track movements 24x7.

The government is setting up all sorts of "command centers" that can monitor live events in cities by tapping into their traffic cameras and other cameras that they have setup.

Love him or hate him, Snowden opened up some folks eyes.