Looks like Missouri has a problem

[Sooner24]

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2015/11/08/black-players-vow-boycott-of-mizzou-football-team-until-school-president-resigns/

[yermom]

i guess i missed what all of this is about

i can only imagine what it would take for Boren to resign, although i haven't been this close to too many other schools. being around 20+ years isn't that normal from what i can tell

[Tear Down This Wall]

i guess i missed what all of this is about

i can only imagine what it would take for Boren to resign, although i haven't been this close to too many other schools. being around 20+ years isn't that normal from what i can tell

The release of the Mixon video would be the end of Boren, and others.

As to Missouri, I'm guessing the SEC is regretting the day it invited those jokers into their conference. I love it when the "oppressed" are given free room and board with tuition and books paid for PLUS now a stipend.

I'm wondering how this compares to the slaves pre-1863. Perhaps the slaves weren't really oppressed at all because they weren't on college campuses being feed, sheltered, and educated on the taxpayers' dime.

Also the hunger striking grad student still looks pretty well feed after two weeks of striking. Perhaps he's just gone paleo or something. He's likely getting by on student loan money as well. I wasn't a history major. Can anyone tell me what kind of student loans the slaves got? I mean, while we're talking about oppression, it's worth some discussing.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

nm...

[Jacie]

In the event this lasts so long the tigers won't have time to prepare and miss their next game, does it go down in the books as a loss due to forfeit, a cancelled game that is neither a W or L, or be rescheduled?

BYU is on a 5-game win streak with an opportunity to go 10-2 on the year, which would get them a spot in the Top 25 and a pretty decent bowl game, I can't believe they are on board with this.

[Soonerjeepman]

good grief....I'm tired of this bullcrap. The youth of today are out of control...blaming everyone else..and anyone in "charge" just goes along with this crap.

Good riddance to the mu...what a bunch of jackwagons.

[FaninAma]

Shut the program down. The popularity of football is waning. If we start seeing a lot of the players as victims of the man attitude the trend will accelerate. Sorry, but I have better things to spend my money on than an organization that wants to imply I am a racist.

There were a ton of empty seats at Memorial stadium Saturday night. I was in section 33, row 50 and almost the entire 49th row was empty as well as several seats around us.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Shut the program down. The popularity of football is waning. If we start seeing a lot of the players as victims of the man attitude the trend will accelerate. Sorry, but I have better things to spend my money on than an organization that wants to imply I am a racist.

There were a ton of empty seats at Memorial stadium Saturday night. I was in section 33, row 50 and almost the entire 49th row was empty as well as several seats around us.

The seats were empty because of the opponent. They will be filled against TCU. But, I agree with your larger sentiment - it's getting old, the "we're marginalized" bit.

Court already overturned players' bid to unionize. They are now getting paid in addition to having room, board, tuition, and meals paid for. It just rings hollow.

Well fed hunger strike guy's list of complaints is pretty thin as well. Seems as though he wants the university president to be the police. If a crime is committed, report it to the police. No university president at any college can usurp the police.

[DocHemi]

I'd have fired the coach. Any player that wants to strike is off the team and loses their scholarship. If none of the players want to play then forfeit the games. Need to stand up to bullies. Think this would work with the President? I'm going on a hunger strike until Obama resigns haha. At 4-5 it looks like they've been on strike. Can't believe the guy resigned.

[BoulderSooner79]

Can't believe the guy resigned.

Probably got a nice exit package and/or pension to leave (on the Mizzou tax payer's tab). That's the way these things usually work.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I'd have fired the coach. Any player that wants to strike is off the team and loses their scholarship. If none of the players want to play then forfeit the games. Need to stand up to bullies. Think this would work with the President? I'm going on a hunger strike until Obama resigns haha. At 4-5 it looks like they've been on strike. Can't believe the guy resigned.

Why would he stay at a place where the inmates run the asylum? He'll be paid handsomely to leave. And, he can go back to the private sector where he was a successful executive.

[Soonerjeepman]

of course all the senators jumped on the "oppressed" bandwagon...

[winout]

Contract with BYU would be a $1M payout in case of a forfeit. This on a football program that netted $3M last year. As usual comes down to money.

Of course, with the way Mizzou is playing this year my argument would be that the team hasn't shown up to any games so far so this is an idle threat.

[BetterSoonerThanLater]

ridiculousness. they are given scholorships to play football. they are not playing football. they should get no scholorship. they can protest all they want--it is their right--but you just won't be playing football. you'll need to pay for your school, pay for your own meals, rent, etc, like everyone else. oh yeah, and keep your grades up so you don't fail out.

good luck, and happy protesting

[badger]

There are a lot of interesting factors at play in this situation... and whatever your opinion of this boycott, it apparently worked because the president stepped down today. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQqQIwAWoVChMIgfX15o2EyQIVyziICh37nQJ2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2F2015%2F11% 2F09%2Funiversity-missouri-president-resigns-amid-race-backlash%2F&usg=AFQjCNGcV6HI2Iy8xzRWI-zjVzezyh62-w&sig2=8ItAAgc2S7XIi2fd6Rdzrw&cad=rja)

- Would Mizzou players have threatened to sit out if they were in contention for the SEC East a la the past two seasons? Florida secured it by beating Vandy Saturday, so there's no chance of that this year, playing or sitting.

- With the threat of giving $1 million to BYU, not to mention the lost concessions, ticket money, etc from game forfeiture, did the Mizzou players have the upper hand here, and will they continue to have the upper hand on social issues they get involved with?

- Are they a team divided or united on this front? The initial tweets/etc said only the black players were sitting out and made no mention of the entire team. The coaches only spoke out later after the news started being widely reported.

I appreciate having President Boren be a decisive and up-front leader on the SAE incident of last offseason. It could have turned out to be a much worse situation for OU had he not taking immediate action and gave more than lip service to those who were upset. It sounds like Mizzou's leaders could have had a similar result if they weren't dancing around the issue, trying to avoid responsibility and involvement.

If Mizzou players are indeed booted for their actions, there's a rival program just across the border that's had depleted talent and scholly levels for years. Hit the Tigers where it hurts most and defect to KU! :D

[badger]

Update: Stand down, Mizzouers. Your sucky football team will continue to suck in full, not in part.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ap/the-latest-missouri-football-to-resume-normal-activities/article_228d6d03-f9e7-5310-9979-99a0d48f5ff9.html)


University of Missouri officials say the football team will resume its regular activities following the resignation of the university system president.

[tycat947]

MIZ...ZOU ...... SUCKS!

[KantoSooner]

Once again, Missouri finds a way to take a negative situation...and make it worse.

The only solution I can see is to have the territory federalized and turned over to me as an absolute despot for a period of 100 years. I promise to have it all cleaned up and ship shape by then.

You're welcome.

[Salt City Sooner]

In the event this lasts so long the tigers won't have time to prepare and miss their next game, does it go down in the books as a loss due to forfeit, a cancelled game that is neither a W or L, or be rescheduled?

BYU is on a 5-game win streak with an opportunity to go 10-2 on the year, which would get them a spot in the Top 25 and a pretty decent bowl game, I can't believe they are on board with this.
It actually doesn't matter with BYU. Before the season started, they committed to play in either the Las Vegas Bowl or the Hawaii Bowl. Whichever one they don't play in this year, they've agreed to play in in the 2019 season.

[swardboy]

If Mizzou players are indeed booted for their actions, there's a rival program just across the border that's had depleted talent and scholly levels for years. Hit the Tigers where it hurts most and defect to KU!

Being a Missourian who roots for OU, I'd rather see the MU players who DIDN'T want to be a part of a political circus transfer to Kansas.

Who knows what's next on the "progressive agenda" for these dorks.

[FaninAma]

I appreciate having President Boren be a decisive and up-front leader on the SAE incident of last offseason. It could have turned out to be a much worse situation for OU had he not taking immediate action and gave more than lip service to those who were upset. It sounds like Mizzou's leaders could have had a similar result if they weren't dancing around the issue, trying to avoid responsibility and involvement.

If Mizzou players are indeed booted for their actions, there's a rival program just across the border that's had depleted talent and scholly levels for years. Hit the Tigers where it hurts most and defect to KU! :D

I have no problem with Boren being decisive on the SAE issue. I do have a problem with him being inconsistent and using financial and political considerations when treating students in a fair mannner. I still wonder how much they paid the drunk girl to not go forward with any legal actions. and to seal the video of Mixon.

I guess the Missouri President would have been a lot better off if he had found some dumb white frat guys to come down hard on. Apparently he doesn't underestand the importance of PC optics.

[cvsooner]

Uh, no. They're given scholarships to be students who play football. If they keep their grades up, no way they can yank the scholarship.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Why would he stay at a place where the inmates run the asylum? He'll be paid handsomely to leave. And, he can go back to the private sector where he was a successful executive.

^^^ This. Sad day when a bunch of young people can sway a top manager to leave. University will no longer be the same and everyone will be afraid to speak their opinion or intelligently. This isn't about the protest or the precipitating event, this is about an adult giving into a 2 year old tantrum... we know how well that works and the results of doing that.

[Tear Down This Wall]

There are a lot of interesting factors at play in this situation... and whatever your opinion of this boycott, it apparently worked because the president stepped down today. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQqQIwAWoVChMIgfX15o2EyQIVyziICh37nQJ2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fus%2F2015%2F11% 2F09%2Funiversity-missouri-president-resigns-amid-race-backlash%2F&usg=AFQjCNGcV6HI2Iy8xzRWI-zjVzezyh62-w&sig2=8ItAAgc2S7XIi2fd6Rdzrw&cad=rja)

- Would Mizzou players have threatened to sit out if they were in contention for the SEC East a la the past two seasons? Florida secured it by beating Vandy Saturday, so there's no chance of that this year, playing or sitting.

- With the threat of giving $1 million to BYU, not to mention the lost concessions, ticket money, etc from game forfeiture, did the Mizzou players have the upper hand here, and will they continue to have the upper hand on social issues they get involved with?

- Are they a team divided or united on this front? The initial tweets/etc said only the black players were sitting out and made no mention of the entire team. The coaches only spoke out later after the news started being widely reported.

I appreciate having President Boren be a decisive and up-front leader on the SAE incident of last offseason. It could have turned out to be a much worse situation for OU had he not taking immediate action and gave more than lip service to those who were upset. It sounds like Mizzou's leaders could have had a similar result if they weren't dancing around the issue, trying to avoid responsibility and involvement.

If Mizzou players are indeed booted for their actions, there's a rival program just across the border that's had depleted talent and scholly levels for years. Hit the Tigers where it hurts most and defect to KU! :D

"Responsibility and involvement" in what? Did the president yell n_gger? No. Someone said someone yelled it at him. How is that on the president of the college?

The OU situation was totally different because they perps were filming themselves. What did you want the president of Mizzou to do, expel every white student who might have yelled n_gger?

And, let's digress into reality here - if someone really did yell it, how do we conclude that it was a white person? What if it were a hispanic? An Asian?

What exactly do you propose the president do? Send out and e-mail to all student saying, "Don't yell or say n_gger to black people. Only black people can say that to black people. Get it straight."?

Also, what do you want him to do with no perpetrator found for the alleged dog feces incident? Again, no one to punish? No evidence that anyone did anything other than this group found it. How do we know they didn't do it themselves to perpetrate a hoax? Oh...surely, not. Not, college kid looking for some social media gas!

[Tear Down This Wall]

And, also, what about the alleged "bumped" protester during the parade. This was a homecoming parade with protesters planning to disrupt. Are we to naively believe that none of the protest or homecoming parade was caught on video in this day and age?

Come on. Where is the "bumped" protester? Where is the evidence that this event even took place? A video? A police report?

You are telling me that there were no police at a parade? A police officer anywhere near the parade who could have cited the driver of the car had the event actually occurred?

Some of you...really? All you need for evidence is that someone said something happened and nothing more?

It's bad enough that there is no evidence that any of the allegations actually ever occurred. What is worse is that no media outlet anywhere appears interested - or, capable - of trying to determine the veracity of the accusations.

Is journalism really this dead? Is this what it has come to, journalist just glom onto whatever is sensational for a story and refuse to investigate whether any of it is fact?

Pathetic.

[badger]

It's funny that you suggest journalism is dead... The protesters tried to create a no-media area at Mizzou today. You know, the school with one of the top journalism schools in the country.

I stand by my assertion that mizz president should have taken these concerns seriously, faster. If the allegations are without merit, investigate and release your findings. Don't just sit back and let the angry mob dictate the narrative. Whose in charge of campus?

[jkjsooner]

And, also, what about the alleged "bumped" protester during the parade. This was a homecoming parade with protesters planning to disrupt. Are we to naively believe that none of the protest or homecoming parade was caught on video in this day and age?

Come on. Where is the "bumped" protester? Where is the evidence that this event even took place? A video? A police report?

You are telling me that there were no police at a parade? A police officer anywhere near the parade who could have cited the driver of the car had the event actually occurred?

Some of you...really? All you need for evidence is that someone said something happened and nothing more?

It's bad enough that there is no evidence that any of the allegations actually ever occurred. What is worse is that no media outlet anywhere appears interested - or, capable - of trying to determine the veracity of the accusations.

Is journalism really this dead? Is this what it has come to, journalist just glom onto whatever is sensational for a story and refuse to investigate whether any of it is fact?

Pathetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6zwnmlzZSQ

[Soonerjeepman]

If I got a dollar for every time I heard n?igger while playing ball...I'd be a rich man.

Free speech?

[Soonerjeepman]

Oh...and incoming freshman will now be required to take a diversity sensitive class...good grief. I wouldn't send my kid just for that exact reason. They need a "grow a pair of nads" class...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

SEC SEC SEC !!! haha

[bluedogok]

^^^ This. Sad day when a bunch of young people can sway a top manager to leave. University will no longer be the same and everyone will be afraid to speak their opinion or intelligently. This isn't about the protest or the precipitating event, this is about an adult giving into a 2 year old tantrum... we know how well that works and the results of doing that.
It already is that, it's pretty much to the point that the whole academic system in this country needs to be torn down and started over again. It has also been going on for awhile, I remember an op-ed in the January 1990 Playboy by Nat Hentoff called "Flexing Muzzles" which addressed what is going on all over the country now. Ironically one of the few copies of it that I can find online is a PDF of the UM-St. Louis school newspaper with the op-ed published around the same time.

The article is on page 4.
Flexing Muzzles - Nat Hentoff (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwiGgaezjoXJAhVM5mMKHbBbDgQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.umsl.edu%2Flibrary%2Funivers ity-archives%2FStudent%2520Newspaper%2FCurrent%2C%2520 1990-1992%2F1990%2FJanuary%252018%2C%25201990.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFsuB1iIrOX-gf2IL7VVx2ztVz3bw&sig2=hdkBIue9JSyTSmDy6Q2KNA)

[Jacie]

To be clear, it wasn't the student protest that caused the uni prez to resign . . . it was the football team boycott.

[Breadburner]

To be clear, it wasn't the student protest that caused the uni prez to resign . . . it was the football team boycott.

Wrong......

[Jacie]

Oh really?

Missouri protest exposes NCAA's greatest fear
Dan Wetzel
Yahoo Sports

In less than a day the movement grew from a single tweet from 32 black players to the support of perhaps the whole team, including head coach Gary Pinkel and the athletic department.

By Monday morning, poof, Wolfe was gone, resigning his presidency that he held onto across months despite protests, complaints, a tent city on campus and even a hunger strike by a graduate student.

It was the football team that supplied the momentum and media attention that nothing else could.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Yeah, I finally read what precipitated all this stuff. A drunk dude(s) in a vehicle either drove past a bunch of black people or the OU equivalent of the BPU (Do they still have that at OU) and yelled out stuff including the N word. In some dorm, somebody apparently drew a swastika in feces on a door or wall. Didn't say for what context or if it was targeted at someone in particular. I didn't know that the swastika has become a symbol of black oppression.

Now, while the yelling is bad, how is that different than some drunk dude driving through Greek row and yelling out Greeks suck or GDI! I don't see a school President investigating that. I do see this as a police effort, if they have any information to follow up on like description of said vehicle or people involved.

Now a couple of Journalism professors have been associated with anti-first amendment activity towards a fellow reporter. They should be fired IMO.

[oupride]

To be clear, it wasn't the student protest that caused the uni prez to resign . . . it was the football team boycott.
ditto

[FaninAma]

I stand by my assertion that mizz president should have taken these concerns seriously, faster. If the allegations are without merit, investigate and release your findings. Don't just sit back and let the angry mob dictate the narrative. Whose in charge of campus?
And to what purpose....so he can become a puppet that jumps every time a special interest victims' group doesn't like something on campus? What a freaking nightmare. If my kid was going to Missouri they would be transferring as soon as possible. The PC BS on that campus is about to go off the charts.

[FaninAma]

Oh really?

Missouri protest exposes NCAA's greatest fear
Dan Wetzel
Yahoo Sports

In less than a day the movement grew from a single tweet from 32 black players to the support of perhaps the whole team, including head coach Gary Pinkel and the athletic department.

By Monday morning, poof, Wolfe was gone, resigning his presidency that he held onto across months despite protests, complaints, a tent city on campus and even a hunger strike by a graduate student.

It was the football team that supplied the momentum and media attention that nothing else could.

And one of the reasons I did not reorder my season tickets 6 years ago. The tail is wagging the damned dog.

[badger]

And to what purpose....so he can become a puppet that jumps every time a special interest victims' group doesn't like something on campus?
I don't consider President Boren a puppet, but he seems to always listen to concerns big and small around campus. When he instituted a policy that freshmen needed to live on campus, two mothers protested outside his office (they lived in Norman and it would have been a needless expense for their kids to not live a few miles away at home) and he welcomed them in to discuss. The same goes for editorials in the student paper, and reacting to unexpected deaths on campus -- the alcohol poisoning death of a frat student, the student who blew himself up on a bench outside the stadium.

Being an active president does not make you a puppet president. It makes you a good president. It's why Mizzou's name is getting dragged through the mud right now instead of OU's.


To be clear, it wasn't the student protest that caused the uni prez to resign . . . it was the football team boycott.

I agree with this. The student group confronted him numerous times, including at the homecoming parade and it didn't prompt action, but the football team was the straw that broke the camel's back.


And one of the reasons I did not reorder my season tickets 6 years ago. The tail is wagging the damned dog.
From grayshirting, to one-year scholarship that need to be renewed annually, to some schools restricting social media, to just recently being able to have unlimited meals and maybe perhaps one day getting cost of attendance scholarships.... the balance of power has, for a long time, been with the millionaire coaches, highly paid staffs and athletic departments, the universities, conferences, and NCAA. I'd say the balance of power is still on the other side, but the players are showing a bit more fight for themselves lately.


Now a couple of Journalism professors have been associated with anti-first amendment activity towards a fellow reporter. They should be fired IMO.
It was truly pathetic for a school with such a renowned J-school.


Missouri protest exposes NCAA's greatest fear
I love hearing about the NCAA being afraid... but maybe I'm just thinking back to all of the times they've been after OU :D

[Turd_Ferguson]

Now a couple of Journalism professors have been associated with anti-first amendment activity towards a fellow reporter. They should be fired IMO.

Heh. The two carrot top white guilters toward the end are journalist Prof's.

W8sw1MTodq4

[FaninAma]

Badger, with all due respect I don't think we can say how Boren handles things on a daily basis. I do see a general theme with him that if a subject concerns a politically correct issue it gets his attention much faster than other issues do whereas if an issue concerns a student who belongs to one of the victimhood groups the opposite occurs. Boren is a career politician. That has been both a positive and a negative for OU. Overall he has done a decent job of improving the reputation of OU among those who keep score in the circles of academia. Along the way I think he has used some questionable methods in the way he metes out student justice. For example, with the recent SAE incident I agreed with his quick action but I find it very heavy handed that he threw students out of their campus housing on 1 day notice because he was playing to the media and was allowing political correctness intimidation(as well as consideration from the football team) to drive his actions. He could have suspeneded the fraternity and held an immediate hearing and investigation and at least given the appearance of fairness to all of the parties. Sorry, but even on a college campus I think the accused have ome right to have the facts come out and have their day in "court". BTW, before I get accused of being a racist I was a proponent of a more fair process for Frank Shannon butonce again that was a politically correct issue and Boren had to allow that process to play out.

And I disagree with TDTW. I think the lack of a full stadium this past Saturday had more contributing factors than just who the opponent was.

[badger]

I think the accused have ome right to have the facts come out and have their day in "court".
With all due respect ;) they could have had their day in "court." It said so right here in the expulsion letters:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/10/2684587200000578-2988273-image-m-63_1426017170824.jpg


Boren is a career politician. That has been both a positive and a negative for OU
No disputing this, but I'd say it's more positive than negative. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I think it's clear which president handled their protesters better.


I think the lack of a full stadium this past Saturday had more contributing factors than just who the opponent was.
Agree. I expect a much fuller house if not completely full house for TCU. I think it's fair to say that college football does have a growing concern on their hands when student sections aren't full whether kickoff is 11 am or night... and when your have to scale back stadium plans due to donations not being as free flowing as a decade ago

[Tear Down This Wall]

It's funny that you suggest journalism is dead... The protesters tried to create a no-media area at Mizzou today. You know, the school with one of the top journalism schools in the country.

I stand by my assertion that mizz president should have taken these concerns seriously, faster. If the allegations are without merit, investigate and release your findings. Don't just sit back and let the angry mob dictate the narrative. Whose in charge of campus?

Again, to do what? And, with what evidence? Who is there to punish?

What this guy really wanted all along is to get public with this stupid "white privilege" philosophy that they teach on college campuses these days and make everyone on the campus take classes telling everyone how bad white people are and always have been.

It's all the rage these days. I have a nephew at University of Chicago and its all he talks about. Idiot. Smart enough to get into U Chicago, but dumb enough to fall for the thinnest of academic gruel.

Okay, that is what this is all about. They made up some incidents and stuck to them. They learned a valuable lesson from the Michael Brown incident: don't wait until the truth comes out and evidence is against you.

They wanted the guy to say and write all of these asinine things about "white privilege." The guy did the right thing by bowing instead of doing that. He's got a brain in his head and finally realized he was dealing with idiots, he could easily quit and go back to the corporate world, and leave academics to the social Don Quixotes.

The president of the system is from the business world. He likely assumed that he was dealing with rational people who understood that there is a process. Well, they aren't rational and didn't want to wait for the process for figure out that they were full of sh*t and making up stories to begin with so they could push their ridiculous "white privilege" agenda on the university.

And, let me tell you...Mizzou deserves all the crappiness and stupidity coming its way for caving into it.

[FaninAma]

With all due respect ;) they could have had their day in "court." It said so right here in the expulsion letters:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/10/2684587200000578-2988273-image-m-63_1426017170824.jpg


No disputing this, but I'd say it's more positive than negative. I'm not saying he's perfect, but I think it's clear which president handled their protesters better.


Agree. I expect a much fuller house if not completely full house for TCU. I think it's fair to say that college football does have a growing concern on their hands when student sections aren't full whether kickoff is 11 am or night... and when your have to scale back stadium plans due to donations not being as free flowing as a decade ago

I am judging Boren in the SAE incident by what actually happened. I think there was plenty of video footage showing the fraternity members packing up and leaving their frat house within 24 to 36 hours. He made it pretty clear how any appeal process would go.

I had 2 daughters attending OU at the time and they(and most of their friends) thought Boren was very heavy-handed in how he handled this incident especially when compared to his kid glove treatment of Mixon.

[SoonerorLater]

I am judging Boren in the SAE incident by what actually happened. I think there was plenty of video footage showing the fraternity members packing up and leaving their frat house within 24 to 36 hours. He made it pretty clear how any appeal process would go.

I had 2 daughters attending OU at the time and they(and most of their friends) thought Boren was very heavy-handed in how he handled this incident especially when compared to his kid glove treatment of Mixon.

Frat boys shouldn't have been expelled and Mixon shouldn't have been either. This a State University and King Boren ought not to be running it like his own personal fiefdom. He probably made the best decision for the University but there are many decisions in life you could make the same claim about if individual liberty be damned.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

How interesting...

The top leader in this crap at mizzou is an intern for Claire McCaskill (D) MO. His name is Anurag Ram Chandran. He has assisted on policy decisions on Keystone and Immigration Reform among other things...

[Tear Down This Wall]

Frat boys shouldn't have been expelled and Mixon shouldn't have been either. This a State University and King Boren ought not to be running it like his own personal fiefdom. He probably made the best decision for the University but there are many decisions in life you could make the same claim about if individual liberty be damned.

No. Both should have been expelled.

Boren, Stoops, and Co. then looked like hypocrites by saying it's good to give kids a second chance. Well, look...I have no sympathy for frats; I was never in one because I'm not a fag and never needed the wing-man scene/party set up to meet girls. But, not every member of that frat was saying n_gger.

Boren did the right thing by kicking the frat off. But, he should have also created a path to let those student back in the way they did for Mixon.

To me, it should have been all or none with both the frats and Mixon - both did wrong, horribly wrong.

Mixon copped a plea in a criminal case and got to return after just six months "away" from the team, never lost his scholarship, and got to take it as a redshirt. Some punishment, eh?

The frat did nothing criminal, but committed a social sin in the hypersenstive atmosphere that infects almost all state colleges and universities.

[badger]

I can see that we aren't all going to agree here, but this has been a good discussion just the same. We are all respectfully disagreeing and not letting this devolve into an Internet shouting match... which is what Mizzou seems to be right now, except sans-Internet.

Pat Forde (formerly of ESPN, now of Yahoo) had a good take (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/forde-yard-dash--missouri-players-serve-notice-to-schools-around-the-country-070839950-ncaaf.html) on this issue:


every school and every coach can learn from them when it comes to handling a potential power play from the athletes. Listen, respect their views, remain calm – and be prepared. Because you never know when your school might be next.

I would be incredibly embarrassed of Mizzou if they were still part of our conference or if I went there instead of OU. I'm proud of how OU handled its own protests last March... and Mizzou's spiraling out of control simply because leadership did not take control of the situation from the start.

[tycat947]

I can see that we aren't all going to agree here, but this has been a good discussion just the same. We are all respectfully disagreeing and not letting this devolve into an Internet shouting match... which is what Mizzou seems to be right now, except sans-Internet.

Pat Forde (formerly of ESPN, now of Yahoo) had a good take (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/forde-yard-dash--missouri-players-serve-notice-to-schools-around-the-country-070839950-ncaaf.html) on this issue:



I would be incredibly embarrassed of Mizzou if they were still part of our conference or if I went there instead of OU. I'm proud of how OU handled its own protests last March... and Mizzou's spiraling out of control simply because leadership did not take control of the situation from the start.

+1!

[Tear Down This Wall]

I can see that we aren't all going to agree here, but this has been a good discussion just the same. We are all respectfully disagreeing and not letting this devolve into an Internet shouting match... which is what Mizzou seems to be right now, except sans-Internet.

Pat Forde (formerly of ESPN, now of Yahoo) had a good take (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/forde-yard-dash--missouri-players-serve-notice-to-schools-around-the-country-070839950-ncaaf.html) on this issue:



I would be incredibly embarrassed of Mizzou if they were still part of our conference or if I went there instead of OU. I'm proud of how OU handled its own protests last March... and Mizzou's spiraling out of control simply because leadership did not take control of the situation from the start.

Again, what did you want the leadership to do? There were no perpetrators of any alleged incident to be found. And, the black group was calling on the the guy to write and publicly state that he was racists and had "white privilege."

So, what...? What did you want them to do? Boren had it easy because there was evidence. There was no - and, still is no - evidence that any of the incidents alleged ever occurred at Mizzou.

You think the president should have written a statement saying, in effect, "I'm a racist and Missouri is a racist school because this grad student says it is?"

Come on. This is nothing but an academic shakedown based on the far-fetched theory of "white privilege." It is intellectually dishonest from start to finish.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Again, what did you want the leadership to do? There were no perpetrators of any alleged incident to be found. And, the black group was calling on the the guy to write and publicly state that he was racists and had "white privilege."

So, what...? What did you want them to do? Boren had it easy because there was evidence. There was no - and, still is no - evidence that any of the incidents alleged ever occurred at Mizzou.

You think the president should have written a statement saying, in effect, "I'm a racist and Missouri is a racist school because this grad student says it is?"

Come on. This is nothing but an academic shakedown based on the far-fetched theory of "white privilege." It is intellectually dishonest from start to finish.Well said, and true.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

A reminder, this is all about some drunk person yelling the N word out their car/truck window at a group of people that the N word would be racial charged. The other was apparently "dooky" smeared on a bathroom/tiled wall in the shape of a swastika.

Now MU police wants people to call them if they have had bad words said to them...They can do nothing if the person is not a MU student, but if so, they will apply the student code against them...

And people wonder how despots come power??? I can see the mechanism at work here, the process of mob fomentation is what I am speaking to...

[Tear Down This Wall]

A reminder, this is all about some drunk person yelling the N word out their car/truck window at a group of people that the N word would be racial charged. The other was apparently "dooky" smeared on a bathroom/tiled wall in the shape of a swastika.

Now MU police wants people to call them if they have had bad words said to them...They can do nothing if the person is not a MU student, but if so, they will apply the student code against them...

And people wonder how despots come power??? I can see the mechanism at work here, the process of mob fomentation is what I am speaking to...

Thank you. No proof that the word were ever yelled. And, if so, by an MU student. And, even then, there is a place to report it - the campus police. Any evidence that any of that was done? No.

So this is what we have, in essence in this conversation:

Brawndo = "white privilege"
Electrolytes = racism charges
Water = evidence


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA

[badger]

Remember when Mike Leach was accused by a former wide receiver of abuse? Right after making that accusation, he texted the school's athletic director to apologize and retract his accusations.

However, the Washington State AD decided to not reveal that until after a full investigation, knowing that the public/media would associate this accusation with the Craig/Adam James accusations from his time at Texas Tech. The full investigation not only cleared Leach completely, but also showed that Wazzu takes these matters and players' well being seriously.

Whether there's proof or not of what has been said, the accusation is out there. Mizzou can either let the protesters get louder and gain supporters (including the football team), or take action to prove that the accusations are untrue. The end result is in front of us now --- a ruined homecoming parade and a public property "safety zone" where professors ask for "muscle" to remove the media.

[jkjsooner]

I don't consider President Boren a puppet, but he seems to always listen to concerns big and small around campus. When he instituted a policy that freshmen needed to live on campus, two mothers protested outside his office (they lived in Norman and it would have been a needless expense for their kids to not live a few miles away at home) and he welcomed them in to discuss. The same goes for editorials in the student paper, and reacting to unexpected deaths on campus -- the alcohol poisoning death of a frat student, the student who blew himself up on a bench outside the stadium.

Being an active president does not make you a puppet president. It makes you a good president. It's why Mizzou's name is getting dragged through the mud right now instead of OU's.


It's my understanding that the president is over the entire University of Missouri system. It might be that the chancellor did meet with them multiple times and maybe in their system he is the appropriate person to discuss these types of issues with.

[ouflak]

So I wonder what would happen if all of the athletes in the country went on strike until they got a fair piece of the multi-billion dollar action?

[badger]

It might be that the chancellor did meet with them multiple times and maybe in their system he is the appropriate person to discuss these types of issues with
It's certainly possible. Whatever the actions taken, it apparently was not enough to avoid the consequences of this week --- a few resignations, university embarrassment, the threat of football team boycott, etc.


So I wonder what would happen if all of the athletes in the country went on strike until they got a fair piece of the multi-billion dollar action?
One of the things that works against both the NFL and college players that their careers are very short in both --- you will occasionally get Jason Whites and Jordan Shipleys that stick around for twice as long as most college players, but for the vast majority, careers are not only short, but during the early years of adulthood. College players usually are less than four years; NFL players are usually less than three.

It kind of reminds me of when new college students grumble and complain about how they are old enough to vote, serve in the armed forces and smoke, but not old enough to drink alcohol. We should start a petition! We should organize! Whoops, it took us several years to complain and try to organize, so we're already 21 and it doesn't matter anymore.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

So I wonder what would happen if all of the athletes in the country went on strike until they got a fair piece of the multi-billion dollar action?
The end of college sports. Pro- not so much. People are such sheeple... I do not partake of pro sports for the strike reason. You make WAAAY too much money to strike or have any sympathy from me.

Point of Disclosure: I did go to a GB Packer game this fall, but I didn't know any of the players and it was from a nostalgic point of seeing a game in Lambeau and remembering the Packers of old playing at this venue.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Badg, you have a point, you can vote and die for this country, but not drink. That's an outrage! we should change this inequity!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Brawndo = "white privilege"
Electrolytes = racism charges
Water = evidence


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA


"...Its what plants crave..."

[FaninAma]

So I wonder what would happen if all of the athletes in the country went on strike until they got a fair piece of the multi-billion dollar action?

Are you talking about professional or college athletes? And just so we're on the same page, what is your definition of "fair piece"?

[cvsooner]

Badg, you have a point, you can vote and die for this country, but not drink. That's an outrage! we should change this inequity!

When I was in college at OU, the law allowed women to drink 3.2 beer at 18, but for us guys it was 21. (Anything with higher alcohol it was also 21 for girls.) We did petition the state legislature and we succeeded in getting the age lowered to 18 for both sexes.

Then seven years later it was raised to 21 for everybody. So much for that activism success.

[Tear Down This Wall]

My U Chicago nephew tried out the "die for my country/alcohol" bit on me over the summer. It's as stupid an argument now as it was when I was in school.

No one is forced to join the armed forces or drink beer, to begin with. Or, vote, for that matter. But, that is where any similarity in the issue ends.

Choosing to voluntarily serve in the armed forces is much more of a commitment than walking into a store, grabbing a six pack, and walking to the cash register to hand over your money. That anyone ever equates the two simply shows how far down the pike intelligence has gone over the decades.

You are not pledged to give two to four years of your life in service to the country when you buy a six pack of beer. Nor are you agreeing to possibly die for your country simply because you have bought a six pack.

Volunteering to serve in the armed forces, especially since 9/11, is a serious matter that takes some bravery and forethought on the part of the signee. It doesn't take bravery or forethought to walk into a store, grab a six pack, and hand a cashier a wad of dollar bills.

Further you are agreeing to be trained to protect the country when you volunteer to serve in the armed forces. You are protecting nothing by buying a six pack of beer. In fact, it's just the opposite: you are likely to use poor judgement and could end up hurting yourselves and others when you become intoxicated from it.

It's idiotic to ever compare the two. If military service were compulsory, the story would be different. It's not.

[BoulderSooner79]

The military service/drinking age thing started when there was a draft. I had a draft card right at the end of the Vietnam "police action", but the draft lottery was cancelled when we declared victory and got the h.ell out of there. I clearly remember the drinking age being lowered to 18 for 3.2 beer just to address that argument. "Okay, you can drink. Here's your Bud Lite and your M16". Obviously doesn't apply today.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Well, I should have used a Winkie, the sarcasm of my post to Badg may not have gone through...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Update onthe food sttker at MU, he grew up in a $1 million dollar mansion, his Dad makes $7 million a year as an executive at Union Pacific.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So I wonder what would happen if all of the athletes in the country went on strike until they got a fair piece of the multi-billion dollar action?how silly. Just as silly as the crap at ole mizzou right now.

[Jacie]

My U Chicago nephew tried out the "die for my country/alcohol" bit on me over the summer. It's as stupid an argument now as it was when I was in school.

No one is forced to join the armed forces or drink beer, to begin with.

I can tell you this, military service was not viewed as voluntary when I came of age, the war in Vietnam and the draft were a reality to 18 year old males. Back then, the "old enough to fight, possibly die, old enough to drink" argument made sense to a lot of us, a lot more sense than the girls can drink at 18/boys at 21 deal.

[yermom]

My U Chicago nephew tried out the "die for my country/alcohol" bit on me over the summer. It's as stupid an argument now as it was when I was in school.

No one is forced to join the armed forces or drink beer, to begin with. Or, vote, for that matter. But, that is where any similarity in the issue ends.

Choosing to voluntarily serve in the armed forces is much more of a commitment than walking into a store, grabbing a six pack, and walking to the cash register to hand over your money. That anyone ever equates the two simply shows how far down the pike intelligence has gone over the decades.

You are not pledged to give two to four years of your life in service to the country when you buy a six pack of beer. Nor are you agreeing to possibly die for your country simply because you have bought a six pack.

Volunteering to serve in the armed forces, especially since 9/11, is a serious matter that takes some bravery and forethought on the part of the signee. It doesn't take bravery or forethought to walk into a store, grab a six pack, and hand a cashier a wad of dollar bills.

Further you are agreeing to be trained to protect the country when you volunteer to serve in the armed forces. You are protecting nothing by buying a six pack of beer. In fact, it's just the opposite: you are likely to use poor judgement and could end up hurting yourselves and others when you become intoxicated from it.

It's idiotic to ever compare the two. If military service were compulsory, the story would be different. It's not.

You are missing the point.

If you aren't old enough to be trusted with near beer then why are you suddenly competent to sign your life away to the government or choose a President or buy a gun?

[yermom]

Are you an adult at 18 or not?

[bluedogok]

Are you an adult at 18 or not?
To most helicopter parents, no they aren't.

[BoulderSooner79]

Are you an adult at 18 or not?

The law has to pick a number; individuals vary all over the map. Perhaps in the future it will be determined by some sophisticated brain scan.

[swardboy]

Science tells us the young adult brain is wired to attempt more dangerous activities than it will later in life. This is good for soldier warriors under a system of strict supervision. It's not good for the consumption of a drug that further drops the inhibition level.

[yermom]

Or maybe they are too young to know they are being exploited by a war hungry government?

[FaninAma]

Or maybe they are too young to know they are being exploited by a war hungry government?
I am with you on this issue. BTW, after the outstanding use of military personnel and resources in Vietnam and Iraq by our fearless(feckless?) leaders which of you parents would encourage your children to join the US armed forces?

[Tear Down This Wall]

You are missing the point.

If you aren't old enough to be trusted with near beer then why are you suddenly competent to sign your life away to the government or choose a President or buy a gun?

No.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Are you an adult at 18 or not?

Legally, yes. Mentally, no. Thank God the law errs on the side of not letting 18 year old drink legally.

[swardboy]

Or maybe they are too young to know they are being exploited by a war hungry government?

Stay on topic. Plus, there is no draft now.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Or maybe they are too young to know they are being exploited by a war hungry government?

Or, too young to know they are being exploited by profit-hungry alcoholic beverage corporations who will not be held liable if they are killed, maimed, or paralyzed in a drunk driving accident or by a drunk driver?

[Tear Down This Wall]

And:

"Teen drinking and driving rates have dropped by 54 percent over the last two decades, and the biggest declines were seen between 1982 and 1995, a period which included changes in the Federal law that pushed all states to increase their drinking age to 21.

During that period, the number of fatally-injured drunk drivers decreased by 57 percent among those ages 16 to 20, compared with 39 percent for those ages 21 to 24, and 9 percent for those older than 25.

Looking at whether setting the age at 21 has driven teenagers to drink more, researchers found that psychological and social studies on drinking motivations have not supported this idea.

On the other hand, many studies have found that a higher legal drinking age led to less alcohol consumption. In one of the most recent studies, researchers found that in 2011, 36 percent of college students said they'd engaged in binge drinking in the past two weeks, compared with 43 percent of students in 1988, the first year that the age 21 law was adopted by all states.

Researchers noted the age 21 law has had positive effects despite being sometimes disobeyed, and indifferently enforced. Instead of lowering drinking age, there should be in fact stricter enforcement of the law, they said.

"Clinical trials have found that when college towns put more effort into enforcing the law — and advertise that fact to students — student drinking declines," DeJong said.

"Some people assume that students are so hell-bent on drinking, nothing can stop them," DeJong said. "But it really is the case that enforcement works."

http://www.livescience.com/43605-drinking-age-21-saves-lives.html

[badger]

Lol I successfully got this thread off topic ;)


Update onthe food sttker at MU, he grew up in a $1 million dollar mansion, his Dad makes $7 million a year as an executive at Union Pacific.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean daddy gives him a big allowance now that he's in grad school. :P Still, an interesting wrinkle in the protesting, isn't it?


Are you an adult at 18 or not?
It depends on if you play baseball, basketball, or football. Baseball, MLB, adult. Basketball, NBA not till 19 unless you're from another country, in which case 18, adult. Football, NFL at age 21 (ish, depending on how far removed from HS you are --- 3 years out is requirement) is adult.

Till then, you are an unpaid, scholarship amateur student-athlete. :D:D:D:D

[jkjsooner]

What are the long term consequences of this week's events?

At first I thought that this is a monumental power shift to the student athletes - well, those in revenue generating sports.

I do think there was a power shift but there are limits. Missouri players were able to do what they did because their demands had nothing to do with NCAA rules. If, say, they went on strike in an effort for pay (or ability to market their image), it would be a different matter. Nobody at Missouri would be able to give into their demands as doing so would be an NCAA violation. The NCAA wouldn't have the incentive to bend over backwards for one school.

If the players want power in NCAA matters, it will have to extend much further than one school.

[jkjsooner]

Lol I successfully got this thread off topic ;)



Yeah, but that doesn't mean daddy gives him a big allowance now that he's in grad school. :P Still, an interesting wrinkle in the protesting, isn't it?


It depends on if you play baseball, basketball, or football. Baseball, MLB, adult. Basketball, NBA not till 19 unless you're from another country, in which case 18, adult. Football, NFL at age 21 (ish, depending on how far removed from HS you are --- 3 years out is requirement) is adult.

Till then, you are an unpaid, scholarship amateur student-athlete. :D:D:D:D

You are legally an adult at 18. You can sign contracts, go to war, vote, be charged as an adult in criminal matters (automatically), etc. It's a pet peeve of mind when people use one criteria - drinking - to define adulthood.

I say that because I went to a bar in Vegas when I was 19 and the sign on the door said "adults only". I remember thinking "FU I'm an adult" as I sat down for my meal with a soda.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Other areas where 18 years olds may be adults, legally, but are not trusted:

Car rental:
http://traveltips.usatoday.com/rent-car-under-25-61224.html
http://www.budget.com/budgetWeb/html/en/customer/commonquestions/#What%20are%20the%20minimum%20age%20requirements%2 0for%20renting?
https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=Hertz_Renting_to_Drivers_Unde r_25.jsp
http://www.smartertravel.com/travel-advice/renting-a-car-under-age-25-is-possible-but-pricey.html?id=1262493

Hotels:
http://www.radisson.com/customerservice/policy/q4
http://www.hyatt.com/hyatt/help.jsp
http://www.omnihotels.com/reservations/faq
https://www.choicehotels.com/support/faq

[Tear Down This Wall]

Cigarettes:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/10/nyc-says-you-must-be-21-to-buy-tobacco-will-this-accomplish-anything/281050/
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/06/arlington_smokers_must_be_21_to_buy_butts
https://marksardella.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/must-be-21-to-buy-tobacco-in-wakefield/
http://www.wrex.com/story/27348274/2014/11/10/illinois-city-raises-age-to-buy-cigarettes-to-21
http://khon2.com/2014/06/25/tobacco-age-limit-in-hawaii-county-rises-to-21-next-week/
http://patch.com/new-york/huntington/signed-into-law-must-be-21-to-buy-tobacco-products

[Tear Down This Wall]

Silicone breast implants, gotta be 22 for some due to FDA restrictions:
http://www.kirbyplasticsurgery.com/procedures/breast/breast-augmentation/
http://www.littlerockcosmeticsurgery.com/breast-augmentation-saline-implants-vs-silicone-implants-2/
http://www.rehnkemd.com/?q=breast_implant_procedures
http://lexingtonps.com/pros-and-cons-of-silicone-breast-implants/
http://www.bostonplastic.com/blog/surgery-tip-choosing-a-breast-implant/

[Tear Down This Wall]

Many things you can't do - both public and private sector - even though you are 18 years old. And, again, that's a good thing.

U.S. Constitution...25 to be a member of House of Reps; 300 to be a Senator; 35 to be president.

Aw...it was the Founding Fathers who started all of this age restriction non-sense!

"What, I can vote but I can't be the president? What is this, Russia?"

[badger]

What are the long term consequences of this week's events?
Good thing to consider. At Mizzou itself, a change in leadership, a change in student policy and some hard self reflection for all.

Outside Mizzou, colleges and their football programs will once again be put on notice that player "strikes" and campus protests can happen anywhere. If yours is next, what will you do?

Soooo... any takers on guessing who will be next? I'll give it a shot:

The next movement to unionize: Stanford
The next athlete boycott due to substandard facilities: Ole Miss
The next football team to not practice due to campus incident: Texas A&M

[Tear Down This Wall]

Found many boat rental places that require you to be 25 before you can rent from them.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Many, many beach/ski resort places have age restrictions higher than 25.

Fred Schiffer wants you to be 30 to rent his place:
http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p328236

[jkjsooner]

Many things you can't do - both public and private sector - even though you are 18 years old. And, again, that's a good thing.

U.S. Constitution...25 to be a member of House of Reps; 300 to be a Senator; 35 to be president.

Aw...it was the Founding Fathers who started all of this age restriction non-sense!

"What, I can vote but I can't be the president? What is this, Russia?"

And since I mentioned Vegas, I should have also mentioned gambling.

[jkjsooner]

I was arguing with my brother last night. His argument was that 1) historical changes have come from times when people broke expected norms to fight for change and 2) had their concerns not been valid they players would not have risked the consequences and gone along with it.

As for #1, that may be true but it certainly doesn't validate any and all behaviors that don't conform to standards.

As for #2, I think he is ignoring the impulsive behavior of 18-22 year olds and mob mentality. I doubt many of them ever thought that there is a possibility of consequences, and there probably was never going to be a chance that they faced consequences. As for this proving the issue was very serious, I remember when I was in school the players refused to practice because they disagreed with the decision to play Cale Gundy instead of Steve Collins (or was it Tink?). It certainly was not an earth shattering issue.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I was arguing with my brother last night. His argument was that 1) historical changes have come from times when people broke expected norms to fight for change and 2) had their concerns not been valid they players would not have risked the consequences and gone along with it.

As for #1, that may be true but it certainly doesn't validate any and all behaviors that don't conform to standards.

As for #2, I think he is ignoring the impulsive behavior of 18-22 year olds and mob mentality. I doubt many of them ever thought that there is a possibility of consequences, and there probably was never going to be a chance that they faced consequences. As for this proving the issue was very serious, I remember when I was in school the players refused to practice because they disagreed with the decision to play Cale Gundy instead of Steve Collins (or was it Tink?). It certainly was not an earth shattering issue.

It was Steve. And, as much as I love Cale as a coach, Collins was playing better during that stretch when Gundy was injured. Thought then that Gibbs should have stuck with Collins.

[jkjsooner]

Good thing to consider. At Mizzou itself, a change in leadership, a change in student policy and some hard self reflection for all.

Outside Mizzou, colleges and their football programs will once again be put on notice that player "strikes" and campus protests can happen anywhere. If yours is next, what will you do?

Soooo... any takers on guessing who will be next? I'll give it a shot:

The next movement to unionize: Stanford
The next athlete boycott due to substandard facilities: Ole Miss
The next football team to not practice due to campus incident: Texas A&M

I just hope it's not OU. We certainly had a chance for a disaster when the chant became public.

Anyway, do you agree with my assertion that things won't be so simple if the grievance is related to an NCAA rule? Universities won't be able to give into those demands and short of a multi-university boycott the NCAA has no incentive to back down.

[badger]

Anyway, do you agree with my assertion that things won't be so simple if the grievance is related to an NCAA rule? Universities won't be able to give into those demands and short of a multi-university boycott the NCAA has no incentive to back down.

Well, my toddler can boycott naptime and bedtime as long as she wants, but it's not going to stop her from falling asleep eventually!

I was too young to remember, but the NFL players went on strike a few decades ago, but relented when the games kept being played without them. I think a similar thing would happen if the players from any number of schools decided to boycott to get change from the NCAA. There's more players out there not on scholarship that can replace you, just like there's more football players out there that replaced the NFL strikers.

What made the Mizzou strike/boycott/etc so effective was the timing. Someone compared the potential financial impact to a booster yanking a big donation without warning. Would an NCAA-wide boycott in the middle of the season by all players of all teams have the same impact? That would take a lot of time and effort... and thus, wouldn't happen

[BoulderSooner79]

Stanford the next school to attempt to unionize? I don't think so. The tall landmark on campus is Hoover Tower (we called it Hoover's last erection when I was there). I could see a start-up football team forming to challenge the legacy team - that's what we do in silicon valley.

[Tear Down This Wall]

If it comes to that - players who are going to school with their tuition paid, books paid, room and board, plus stipend boycotting or walking out - it will be the day we quit our season tickets.

Life is too short to put money into kids who don't understand or appreciate what is being handed to them on a silver platter.

It won't be too long. Our own Adrian Peterson equating the players to slaves should, really, have been a wake up call to most of us. Slaves rarely made $12 million+ per year. On the collegiate level, most slaves weren't given the opportunity to have a paid-for college education.

Something has unraveled over the past generation of athletes: appreciation for the opportunity to get for free what many student have to work multiple jobs for and/or borrow to go into debt through student loans for.

[ouflak]

If it comes to that - players who are going to school with their tuition paid, books paid, room and board, plus stipend boycotting or walking out - it will be the day we quit our season tickets.

That would certainly hurt profits.


Life is too short to put money into kids who don't understand or appreciate what is being handed to them on a silver platter.

Then why can a kid go right into baseball after high school and make millions? Or Hockey? Why can a kid, after waiting only one year after high school, go straight to the NBA? Are the kids who play these sports somehow more mentally mature and capable of handling all of that money than football players who have to wait 3 years?


It won't be too long. Our own Adrian Peterson equating the players to slaves should, really, have been a wake up call to most of us. Slaves rarely made $12 million+ per year. On the collegiate level, most slaves weren't given the opportunity to have a paid-for college education.

You shouldn't literally take what he said to mean the actual institution of slavery. I think that his comparison was meant on a level of who is making money versus who is actually doing the work to make the money. The disparity that exists now in college sports clearly has parallels. No one can deny that.


Something has unraveled over the past generation of athletes:

I agree completely. There was a time when a tenured professor made more than any of the sports head coaches. There was no such thing as Tier-Anything, and not every single aspect of the sports was 'monetized'. Now? You have coaches making more than all of the tenured professors on campus and probably the governor of that state as well *combined*. Throw into that the yearly 6 figure raises, not to mention the regular 5 figure raises for all of the assistants, ironically most of that paid by schools whose athletic budgets are supposedly in the red. Merchandisers ink hundred million dollar deals with the school and make billions. Broadcasters can barely find room on the bank computer hard drives to store all of the money they are pulling in. Athletic directors and Conference commissioners make half a million or more with buyouts into millions. The NCAA makes sure its execs and staff are among the best paid of any 'non-profit' organization ever to exist. The world of college athletics has changed and the tsunami of money just keeps rolling on in. What is the one thing that has stayed the same? The athletes are still getting the exact same scholarship. They are the ones sacrificing their bodies, sometimes their educations (a distraction from their sport), even occasionally their lives, and arguably even their souls (from the long-term effects of concussions) for all of that money. And no one can say it hasn't been worth it. It's grown into a multi-billion dollar industry. Their efforts have paid off. Just not for them.


... appreciation for the opportunity to get for free what many student have to work multiple jobs for and/or borrow to go into debt through student loans for.

I assume you are talking about the scholarship athletes? Because a large percentage are not on any athletic scholarship of any kind. Yet they are still bound by the exact same rules. They are even not allowed to work full-time jobs as this would distract them from putting their efforts into the real money maker, the sports.

I went to school on an academic scholarship and I worked for a professor on a research project. Despite that I still could:

Work full time at any job if wanted or needed (which I did).
Transfer to another school, on scholarship, and do the exact same kind of work research work
Sell my image and name as I saw fit.


If the athletes across the country decide to go on strike, the NCAA had better be prepared to do one of two things:

Go bankrupt
Start paying up.


I personally am rooting for the NCAA to fight to the bitter end, because that will surely mean that they cease to exist as a result.

[Jacie]

Concerning kids playing baseball and hockey long before they are allowed to go pro in football, both of those sports have extensive farm systems for young players. Rarely in baseball and practically never in hockey do you see one going to the top right of high school.

[ouflak]

Concerning kids playing baseball and hockey long before they are allowed to go pro in football, both of those sports have extensive farm systems for young players. Rarely in baseball and practically never in hockey do you see one going to the top right of high school.

There aren't any restrictions in these sports on such a thing happening though. There wasn't even the NBA one year restriction until a few years ago, hence why Kobe Bryant was able to join the league at 18 out of high school. An extensive farm system doesn't seem like a valid reason to have such restrictions. Tennis players can start making millions in their young teens and many girls have done just that and are doing that now. Sorry not buying it. The reason for these restrictions has to do with money, and not farm systems or the nonsense argument that the 'kids are too young' to know what to do with all that money.

[yermom]

how many nationally televised college hockey or baseball games do you see?

[jkjsooner]

If it comes to that - players who are going to school with their tuition paid, books paid, room and board, plus stipend boycotting or walking out - it will be the day we quit our season tickets.

Life is too short to put money into kids who don't understand or appreciate what is being handed to them on a silver platter.

It won't be too long. Our own Adrian Peterson equating the players to slaves should, really, have been a wake up call to most of us. Slaves rarely made $12 million+ per year. On the collegiate level, most slaves weren't given the opportunity to have a paid-for college education.

Something has unraveled over the past generation of athletes: appreciation for the opportunity to get for free what many student have to work multiple jobs for and/or borrow to go into debt through student loans for.

The thing that gets me is that the lack of pay gets labelled as a civil right's issue. There may have not been ESPN and there may have been fewer televised games but college football was still a huge deal (nationally televised games, 90k seat stadiums, etc.) back in the '50s and before when the majority of teams were all white.

[jkjsooner]

Then why can a kid go right into baseball after high school and make millions? Or Hockey? Why can a kid, after waiting only one year after high school, go straight to the NBA? Are the kids who play these sports somehow more mentally mature and capable of handling all of that money than football players who have to wait 3 years?


They can't do those things in college. Change the NFL rules and/or start a minor league football system.

In either case, 99% of college football players would not benefit from such a system. A tiny fraction would make millions out of high school and a few would make some money in a minor league system that is probably subsidized heavily by the NFL.

If such a minor league system was so financially viable someone would have created one by now. The argument is that there is collusion between the NFL and NCAA and, if true, that just proves that a minor league football system is not financially viable otherwise the NFL would have created one.



You shouldn't literally take what he said to mean the actual institution of slavery. I think that his comparison was meant on a level of who is making money versus who is actually doing the work to make the money. The disparity that exists now in college sports clearly has parallels. No one can deny that.

He was talking about the NFL not college. Some argue that the NFL owners make too much money but those argument are silly. NFL owners spend up to a billion dollars on those teams and when you risk that much money you certainly deserve to share in the profit.



I agree completely. There was a time when a tenured professor made more than any of the sports head coaches. There was no such thing as Tier-Anything, and not every single aspect of the sports was 'monetized'. Now? You have coaches making more than all of the tenured professors on campus and probably the governor of that state as well *combined*. Throw into that the yearly 6 figure raises, not to mention the regular 5 figure raises for all of the assistants, ironically most of that paid by schools whose athletic budgets are supposedly in the red. Merchandisers ink hundred million dollar deals with the school and make billions. Broadcasters can barely find room on the bank computer hard drives to store all of the money they are pulling in. Athletic directors and Conference commissioners make half a million or more with buyouts into millions. The NCAA makes sure its execs and staff are among the best paid of any 'non-profit' organization ever to exist.

There certainly is room for downward pressure on coach's salaries. But, even with that, that money doesn't go very far when you spread it out among several hundred student athletes.

As for the NCAA, Mark Emmert made $1.7 million last year. That's for the head of an very large organization. It's much lower than any private sector CEO with as much power and influence. I would imagine Emmert could make many times that if he left for a private sector CEO position.

[jkjsooner]

I think the next program to experience this is the University of North Carolina. There has been a lot of protests over a civil war memorial on campus. I could see the basketball team refusing to play until that monument is removed.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The thing that gets me is that the lack of pay gets labelled as a civil right's issue. There may have not been ESPN and there may have been fewer televised games but college football was still a huge deal (nationally televised games, 90k seat stadiums, etc.) back in the '50s and before when the majority of teams were all white.

Okay, but you do understand that nothing bad ever happens to white people or white athletes, right?

[badger]

I think the next program to experience this is the University of North Carolina

I could see that. They've been shortchanging their athlete education for years. OTL did a report that interviewed former UNC athletes saying they were directly to take Swahili as their foreign language and they didn't remember much about it, nor have any use for what they did remember after college.


Change the NFL rules and/or start a minor league football system
They've tried that many times over and it has failed for monetary reasons. Remember the USFL? XFL? af2?

I really, really wish that there was an alternative, but it just seems like fans are fans of college sports because of the collegiate-ness of it, rather than the players.

The golden goose that is college athletics is about to be slaughtered, isn't it

[swardboy]

If the athletes across the country decide to go on strike, the NCAA had better be prepared to do one of two things:


Go bankrupt
Start paying up.



I personally am rooting for the NCAA to fight to the bitter end, because that will surely mean that they cease to exist as a result.

Dreams of an NFL career render this unlikely. Thousands of college players harbor unrealistic hopes of making it as a free agent.

[Tear Down This Wall]

That would certainly hurt profits.



Then why can a kid go right into baseball after high school and make millions? Or Hockey? Why can a kid, after waiting only one year after high school, go straight to the NBA? Are the kids who play these sports somehow more mentally mature and capable of handling all of that money than football players who have to wait 3 years?



You shouldn't literally take what he said to mean the actual institution of slavery. I think that his comparison was meant on a level of who is making money versus who is actually doing the work to make the money. The disparity that exists now in college sports clearly has parallels. No one can deny that.



I agree completely. There was a time when a tenured professor made more than any of the sports head coaches. There was no such thing as Tier-Anything, and not every single aspect of the sports was 'monetized'. Now? You have coaches making more than all of the tenured professors on campus and probably the governor of that state as well *combined*. Throw into that the yearly 6 figure raises, not to mention the regular 5 figure raises for all of the assistants, ironically most of that paid by schools whose athletic budgets are supposedly in the red. Merchandisers ink hundred million dollar deals with the school and make billions. Broadcasters can barely find room on the bank computer hard drives to store all of the money they are pulling in. Athletic directors and Conference commissioners make half a million or more with buyouts into millions. The NCAA makes sure its execs and staff are among the best paid of any 'non-profit' organization ever to exist. The world of college athletics has changed and the tsunami of money just keeps rolling on in. What is the one thing that has stayed the same? The athletes are still getting the exact same scholarship. They are the ones sacrificing their bodies, sometimes their educations (a distraction from their sport), even occasionally their lives, and arguably even their souls (from the long-term effects of concussions) for all of that money. And no one can say it hasn't been worth it. It's grown into a multi-billion dollar industry. Their efforts have paid off. Just not for them.



I assume you are talking about the scholarship athletes? Because a large percentage are not on any athletic scholarship of any kind. Yet they are still bound by the exact same rules. They are even not allowed to work full-time jobs as this would distract them from putting their efforts into the real money maker, the sports.

I went to school on an academic scholarship and I worked for a professor on a research project. Despite that I still could:

Work full time at any job if wanted or needed (which I did).
Transfer to another school, on scholarship, and do the exact same kind of work research work
Sell my image and name as I saw fit.


If the athletes across the country decide to go on strike, the NCAA had better be prepared to do one of two things:

Go bankrupt
Start paying up.


I personally am rooting for the NCAA to fight to the bitter end, because that will surely mean that they cease to exist as a result.

You post is very long, so I'll break up my responses in to several posts.

As to high school baseball versus basketball versus football...it has nothing to do with the leagues, it is the players associations - the unions - who set those boundaries.

As with soccer players, basketball player can go anywhere in the world to make money right out of high school - or before they are out of high school. I have no specific basketball example, but there have been several soccer players signed when they were 16/17 and still in high school.

The "work to make the money" argument is ignorant at best, and stupid at worst. The amount of time, effort, and money it takes to run a professional sports team is monumental. Do the players think all of these people just show up on Sunday with no preparation? It's a stupid argument.

And look at the cost of college athletics to a school. There are less than a dozen school that break even every year. The notion that athletic departments are swimming in money is by far the biggest lie out there. Even with TV money, many athletic department struggle to stay in the black financially.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Also, black and the slavery bit - whether it's athletes or anyone else - just stop with it. It's as asinine as people comparing things or people to the Holocaust or Hitler.

NOTHING that athletes do in any way, shape, or form resembles slavery. If they had taken any real classes while in college, they wouldn't make such stupid, vapid comment in the first place.

Utterly stupid, showing a complete ignorance of history and past horrors.

When people say this or that is like Nazis or slavery...it takes all I can muster to not just haul off and punch them in the mouth. Please, stop it. No one - not one black person in America - has any clue what the slaves went through. And, especially not a black athlete who had his college paid for and is being paid million of dollars to play a game!

Just stop it.

[Tear Down This Wall]

As far as the NCAA "paying up"...again, you are in some fantasy world where the athletic departments have no expenses and everyone is rolling in the dough.

For every University of Texas there are 30 or more Louisiana-Monroes, because with the NCAA you are talking about not just FBS, but also FCS, Division II and Division III.

It's enough that less than a dozen FBS programs break even.

[Soonerjeepman]

You post is very long, so I'll break up my responses in to several posts.

As to high school baseball versus basketball versus football...it has nothing to do with the leagues, it is the players associations - the unions - who set those boundaries.

As with soccer players, basketball player can go anywhere in the world to make money right out of high school - or before they are out of high school. I have no specific basketball example, but there have been several soccer players signed when they were 16/17 and still in high school.

The "work to make the money" argument is ignorant at best, and stupid at worst. The amount of time, effort, and money it takes to run a professional sports team is monumental. Do the players think all of these people just show up on Sunday with no preparation? It's a stupid argument.

And look at the cost of college athletics to a school. There are less than a dozen school that break even every year. The notion that athletic departments are swimming in money is by far the biggest lie out there. Even with TV money, many athletic department struggle to stay in the black financially.

kid here in KC is in HS and has signed with Sporting KC, and plays some. SO he doesn't play on his HS team.

[Soonerjeepman]

As far as the NCAA "paying up"...again, you are in some fantasy world where the athletic departments have no expenses and everyone is rolling in the dough.

For every University of Texas there are 30 or more Louisiana-Monroes, because with the NCAA you are talking about not just FBS, but also FCS, Division II and Division III.

It's enough that less than a dozen FBS programs break even.

on top the smaller schools, each school has a dozen programs that DON'T make jack...tennis, golf, gymnastics...so the $$ sports, fball and basketball...maybe baseball have to pay for everything else.

[Soonerjeepman]

Also, black and the slavery bit - whether it's athletes or anyone else - just stop with it. It's a asinine as people comparing things or people to the Holocaust or Hitler.

NOTHING that athletes do in any way, shape, or form resembles slavery. If they had taken any real classes while in college, they wouldn't make such stupid, vapid comment in the first place.

Utterly stupid, showing a complete ignorance of history and past horrors.

When people say this or that is like Nazis or slavery...it take all I can do to not just haul off and punch them in the mouth. Please, stop it. No one - not one black person in America - has any clue what the slaves went through. And, especially not a black athlete who had his college paid for and is being paid million of dollars to play a game!

Just stop it.

amen

[Tear Down This Wall]

kid here in KC is in HS and has signed with Sporting KC, and plays some. SO he doesn't play on his HS team.

Exactly. Because in soccer there is no player's union saying, you have to wait three years out of high school. The NFLPA doesn't want kid right out of high school or underclassmen in college trying to take their jobs.

The owners would love it because it would give them a reason to pay less on beginning contracts.

[badger]

Dreams of an NFL career render this unlikely. Thousands of college players harbor unrealistic hopes of making it as a free agent
This was on full display the year before last, when NFL evaluations were limited for underclassmen to first round, second round, or stay in school. A bunch of bozos thought "stay in school" meant "i'm a third rounder!" and either went much lower or undrafted. Whoops.


It's a asinine as people comparing things or people to the Holocaust or Hitler.
It is said that when your argument falls to comparing things to the Holocaust/Hitler, that you automatically lose your argument. Perhaps slavery will once be thought of the same way, but considering that there are people alive today that survived the Holocaust/Hitler, but not pre-Civil War slavery, it would probably take longer.


As far as the NCAA "paying up"...again, you are in some fantasy world where the athletic departments have no expenses and everyone is rolling in the dough
I think some programs fudge their numbers a bit (i.e. OU merchandise being tied to the school as opposed to football, even if it's sold right before football games in a store attached to the football stadium), but yes, definitely. There's a lot of big numbers that get tied to the sport via TV contracts, coaching salaries and booster donations... but it also costs a lot to stage the games. It's like the entertainment industry --- the actors make millions, the movie made millions at the box office, so why aren't the interns getting paid millions too?


on top the smaller schools, each school has a dozen programs that DON'T make jack...tennis, golf, gymnastics...so the $$ sports, fball and basketball...maybe baseball have to pay for everything else.

If we ever get to the point of excluding football from scholarship-only compensation, I hope they no longer have to factor it into Title IX considerations, because it's causing iffy sports like bowling to suddenly become full scholarship sports. Hell, I'd love it if they'd expand scholarships for sports that athletes actually participate in (softball, basketball) rather than invent equestrian and competitive cheerleading programs to be Title IX compliant.

[Tear Down This Wall]

This was on full display the year before last, when NFL evaluations were limited for underclassmen to first round, second round, or stay in school. A bunch of bozos thought "stay in school" meant "i'm a third rounder!" and either went much lower or undrafted. Whoops.


It is said that when your argument falls to comparing things to the Holocaust/Hitler, that you automatically lose your argument. Perhaps slavery will once be thought of the same way, but considering that there are people alive today that survived the Holocaust/Hitler, but not pre-Civil War slavery, it would probably take longer.


I think some programs fudge their numbers a bit (i.e. OU merchandise being tied to the school as opposed to football, even if it's sold right before football games in a store attached to the football stadium), but yes, definitely. There's a lot of big numbers that get tied to the sport via TV contracts, coaching salaries and booster donations... but it also costs a lot to stage the games. It's like the entertainment industry --- the actors make millions, the movie made millions at the box office, so why aren't the interns getting paid millions too?



If we ever get to the point of excluding football from scholarship-only compensation, I hope they no longer have to factor it into Title IX considerations, because it's causing iffy sports like bowling to suddenly become full scholarship sports. Hell, I'd love it if they'd expand scholarships for sports that athletes actually participate in (softball, basketball) rather than invent equestrian and competitive cheerleading programs to be Title IX compliant.

Thank you. It drives me crazy that people don't understand money and business. And, so much so that they'll look at what a reported contract says it pays and assume 100% of that dollar amount goes into someone's pocket - as if athletes, entertainers, and the businesses that support them are exempt from taxes AND have no overhead of employees, utilities, insurance, facility management, etc.!

Why do you think hot dogs at a game cost $4-6 dollars? Why does a cup of beer cost $8-12?

[badger]

Why do you think hot dogs at a game cost $4-6 dollars? Why does a cup of beer cost $8-12?
Because I eat before the game and sneak tiny liquor bottle in to supplement the cheaper soda?* :P







*it's been years; parenthood means less football attendance in person

[FaninAma]

Many things you can't do - both public and private sector - even though you are 18 years old. And, again, that's a good thing.

U.S. Constitution...25 to be a member of House of Reps; 300 to be a Senator; 35 to be president.

Aw...it was the Founding Fathers who started all of this age restriction non-sense!

"What, I can vote but I can't be the president? What is this, Russia?"

That's fine but then don't turn around and try to tell us that 18 to 21 year olds have the necessary life experience and decsion making skills to make a decision about joining the military where their lives could be wasted in BS exercises in futility like Vietnam and Iraq. There will never ever be a draft in this country for the same reason.

[Tear Down This Wall]

That's fine but then don't turn around and try to tell us that 18 to 21 year olds have the necessary life experience and decsion making skills to make a decision about joining the military where their lives could be wasted in BS exercises in futility like Vietnam and Iraq. There will never ever be a draft in this country for the same reason.

These are different entities with different goals and responsibilities to the public - businesses, government, and military.

Why are age limits set where they are set by businesses? Because, they have actuaries at insurance companies who have the loss statistics and can loss pick where the age is when claim begin to fall.

Businesses - and, their insurers - are in business to make money, not lose it. So, they are going to set age restrictions on who can do what with their property.

As to the government and roads, their actuaries know what percentage of accidents are cause by people by age...and, in accidents that include them, intoxicant. Their goal in making age laws is to protect other people from those inclined to drink and drive...or, smoke and drive in some states now.

In a military situation, you are volunteering to give your life for your country. You volunteering for service is not a threat of property damage or bodily injury to businesses or other third parties within the country.

So, you are free to give your life for your country if you want. You are not endangering any other American's property or body by doing so. Not that same with buying beer or renting a car, boat, hotel room, or beach house.

Further, the military will give you the training you need to survive, if possible, iin the case that you are ever sent into battle. The majority of people in the military are never on the front lines of battle.

Budweiser doesn't give you any training on drinking and driving when you buy their six pack. They just put a little saying on the bottle reading something like "Enjoy Responsibly" and are immune from liability if you do kill, maim, or paralyze or destroy someone else's property while drunk on their product.

A rental car company doesn't take you out and retest you for the knowledge of traffic laws, to see if you can merge properly, parallel park, etc. A hotel doesn't show you how to care for a room when they rent one ot you.

[Tear Down This Wall]

By the way, if you want to explore the numbingly paint-drying-on-the-wall discussions about actuarial life and issues, here is an actual, real life message board for actuaries:

http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/

[Tear Down This Wall]

Here's an interesting thread form the actuarial people about those insurance policies taken out by college athletes to protect themselves and their potential draft status due to possible injury:

http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/showthread.php?t=300757

[jkjsooner]

If we ever get to the point of excluding football from scholarship-only compensation, I hope they no longer have to factor it into Title IX considerations, because it's causing iffy sports like bowling to suddenly become full scholarship sports. Hell, I'd love it if they'd expand scholarships for sports that athletes actually participate in (softball, basketball) rather than invent equestrian and competitive cheerleading programs to be Title IX compliant.

That could be where we're going. I think it would require the football team to sever all official ties to the university (which means players wouldn't necessarily have to be students) to get that done. I think that would be horrible.

Another possibility is that they simply open up athletes ability to market themselves. I would be for that 100% if they can find a way to allow it without it being corrupted by boosters but I don't see how that could be done. In either case, I think that is very likely.

Another possibility is that the biggest schools will agree to pay all athletes. I think it could only be a few thousand a semester but it is probably doable. It would force a split within FBS - those that can afford it and those that can't. If this happens college football changes drastically. It will be more like the NFL where there is only a few dozen teams with much more parity. There will be more money spread over fewer teams which could make it financially viable.

But, of course, the loser would be those athletes who don't get an offer to this super division. They still won't get paid (because their schools can't afford it) and their exposure will be greatly reduced.

[badger]

The idea was tossed around recently of mid-majors having an earlier season ending around the time the big boys start play. Can you imagine the hype a game would draw of the best of the mid-majors being season openers for the top Power 5 programs?

Of course, some Power 5 will balk, so by that time, the conference champions should all have guaranteed playoff spots so they can stop scheduling creampuff non-conference foes

[FaninAma]

These are different entities with different goals and responsibilities to the public - businesses, government, and military.

Why are age limits set where they are set by businesses? Because, they have actuaries at insurance companies who have the loss statistics and can loss pick where the age is when claim begin to fall.

Businesses - and, their insurers - are in business to make money, not lose it. So, they are going to set age restrictions on who can do what with their property.

As to the government and roads, their actuaries know what percentage of accidents are cause by people by age...and, in accidents that include them, intoxicant. Their goal in making age laws is to protect other people from those inclined to drink and drive...or, smoke and drive in some states now.

In a military situation, you are volunteering to give your life for your country. You volunteering for service is not a threat of property damage or bodily injury to businesses or other third parties within the country.

So, you are free to give your life for your country if you want. You are not endangering any other American's property or body by doing so. Not that same with buying beer or renting a car, boat, hotel room, or beach house.

Further, the military will give you the training you need to survive, if possible, iin the case that you are ever sent into battle. The majority of people in the military are never on the front lines of battle.

Budweiser doesn't give you any training on drinking and driving when you buy their six pack. They just put a little saying on the bottle reading something like "Enjoy Responsibly" and are immune from liability if you do kill, maim, or paralyze or destroy someone else's property while drunk on their product.

A rental car company doesn't take you out and retest you for the knowledge of traffic laws, to see if you can merge properly, parallel park, etc. A hotel doesn't show you how to care for a room when they rent one ot you.

18 to 21 year olds can't be trusted to make correct decisions about responsible drinking yet they can be trusted to wade through the BS propaganda put out by the US military and US government that is designed to appeal to this age on a purely emotional level of thinking. And I disagree that the decision of these individuals who are enticed to join the military only affects them. Who takes care of the PTSD patients, the permanently disabled, the families left without fathers and mothers?

Defending your country from an imminent threat of invasion is a worthy cause to serve in the militatry. Being IED fodder just to prop up despotic allies in the ME isn't.

[KantoSooner]

Excuse me, but do we have mods any more? As 'valid' as the stentorian flagellation of entrenched positions back and forth may be, this thread long ago earned a quick reassignment to Obamafest.
Anyone?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Excuse me, but do we have mods any more? As 'valid' as the stentorian flagellation of entrenched positions back and forth may be, this thread long ago earned a quick reassignment to Obamafest.
Anyone?

At least two of'm are posting in here. Dean left a long time ago.

[badger]

I'm not a mod I occasionally post vBookie events that's it

[Tear Down This Wall]

Excuse me, but do we have mods any more? As 'valid' as the stentorian flagellation of entrenched positions back and forth may be, this thread long ago earned a quick reassignment to Obamafest.
Anyone?

So, don't look at the thread. This site gets minimal daily traffic anyway. What's it to you where it is?

[FaninAma]

Excuse me, but do we have mods any more? As 'valid' as the stentorian flagellation of entrenched positions back and forth may be, this thread long ago earned a quick reassignment to Obamafest.
Anyone?Stentorian is appropriate. Flaggellation is not since their is no evidence of religious ritual or sexual gratification obviously occuring in this thread. Plus, it is interesting if for no other reason than TDTW and I appear to come down on opposite sides of the 21 year old drinking age issue. That doesn't happen often.

[KantoSooner]

So, don't look at the thread. This site gets minimal daily traffic anyway. What's it to you where it is?

Modest interest in seeing the site continue. It was a good idea to separate the football/sports and political discussions. That's all.

[KantoSooner]

Stentorian is appropriate. Flaggellation is not since their is no evidence of religious ritual or sexual gratification obviously occuring in this thread. Plus, it is interesting if for no other reason than TDTW and I appear to come down on opposite sides of the 21 year old drinking age issue. That doesn't happen often.

Nothing religious or sexual about it. Lots that is ritualistic. But don't let me get in the way of a good time. Apparently.

[FaninAma]

Modest interest in seeing the site continue. It was a good idea to separate the football/sports and political discussions. That's all.
I don't disagree. This was sort of a hybrid thread...related to football and politics.

I would have put the tread on the poltical board.

[yermom]

As far as the NCAA "paying up"...again, you are in some fantasy world where the athletic departments have no expenses and everyone is rolling in the dough.

For every University of Texas there are 30 or more Louisiana-Monroes, because with the NCAA you are talking about not just FBS, but also FCS, Division II and Division III.

It's enough that less than a dozen FBS programs break even.

this was always my response to giving players more money

all of the parity from scholarship limits, etc... goes away

it would all be the blue bloods year in year out, not even all of the P5 conferences would be as competitive as they are. you would have something like an NFL sized league and everyone else

[yermom]

These are different entities with different goals and responsibilities to the public - businesses, government, and military.

Why are age limits set where they are set by businesses? Because, they have actuaries at insurance companies who have the loss statistics and can loss pick where the age is when claim begin to fall.

Businesses - and, their insurers - are in business to make money, not lose it. So, they are going to set age restrictions on who can do what with their property.

As to the government and roads, their actuaries know what percentage of accidents are cause by people by age...and, in accidents that include them, intoxicant. Their goal in making age laws is to protect other people from those inclined to drink and drive...or, smoke and drive in some states now.

In a military situation, you are volunteering to give your life for your country. You volunteering for service is not a threat of property damage or bodily injury to businesses or other third parties within the country.

So, you are free to give your life for your country if you want. You are not endangering any other American's property or body by doing so. Not that same with buying beer or renting a car, boat, hotel room, or beach house.

Further, the military will give you the training you need to survive, if possible, iin the case that you are ever sent into battle. The majority of people in the military are never on the front lines of battle.

Budweiser doesn't give you any training on drinking and driving when you buy their six pack. They just put a little saying on the bottle reading something like "Enjoy Responsibly" and are immune from liability if you do kill, maim, or paralyze or destroy someone else's property while drunk on their product.

A rental car company doesn't take you out and retest you for the knowledge of traffic laws, to see if you can merge properly, parallel park, etc. A hotel doesn't show you how to care for a room when they rent one ot you.

that's all pretty big government sounding to me

[swardboy]

And the first recruit has backed out: A three star from Louisiana. Says the campus is a mess.

[badger]

And the first recruit has backed out: A three star from Louisiana. Says the campus is a mess.
Pbbth. A three-star SEC recruit? Those don't exist. Did the unicorn, leprechaun and warlock also decommit? :P


This was sort of a hybrid thread...related to football and politics

We should also move ESPN to the political cable channels grouping :D:D:D

Also, today's Tulsa World editorial cartoon (http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/bruceplante/bruce-plante-cartoon-mizzou-u/article_3b5e11cf-0b0d-5fdd-a37a-2f368df1142c.html):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTssbQmWcAAWs6x.jpg

[Tear Down This Wall]

that's all pretty big government sounding to me

Yeah, but...in the business world, they call it "risk management." The glue clue is that both insurers and the government employ lots and lots of actuaries.

[jkjsooner]

So the posters at tigerboard are saying that Pinkel will resign on Sunday.

[bmjlr]

So the posters at tigerboard are saying that Pinkel will resign on Sunday.

Fox is now reporting it as well...

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/missouri-tigers-gary-pinkel-resigning-mack-rhoades-health-reasons-111315

[badger]

So the posters at tigerboard are saying that Pinkel will resign on Sunday.

Effective at the end of the season.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/collegefootball/missouri-football-coach-reportedly-resigning-after-season-for-health-concerns/article_cc0d5650-6269-5cdc-9f40-28c01cbb5d12.html)

He sites a May lymphoma diagnosis, and I imagine situations like this and no prospects of another SEC East title weighed in as well.

Take care, Coach Pinkel. Thank you again for 2007 ;)

[jkjsooner]

I was hearing that there were a lot of boosters really mad at him. He did throw his bosses under the bus not to mention his players who did not agree with the decision to boycott.

Obviously the cancer played a major role but I doubt it was everything. I wish him well with his health.

[yermom]

Effective at the end of the season.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/collegefootball/missouri-football-coach-reportedly-resigning-after-season-for-health-concerns/article_cc0d5650-6269-5cdc-9f40-28c01cbb5d12.html)

He sites a May lymphoma diagnosis, and I imagine situations like this and no prospects of another SEC East title weighed in as well.

Take care, Coach Pinkel. Thank you again for 2007 ;)

dude, harsh :)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So, don't look at the thread. This site gets minimal daily traffic anyway. What's it to you where it is?really, Kanto!

[jkjsooner]

No additional words needed...

http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/mizzou-protestors-are-upset-that-the-terrorist-attacks-in-paris-are-getting-more-attention-than-them/

[Sooner Eclipse]

No additional words needed...

So they are upset that their astro turf protest was exposed when their poster boy turned out to be a 1%er and their unsubstantiated claims of being under attack by the kkk have been ignored? What a bunch of spoiled, entitled, narcissistic titty babies.