Baylor coach on Tulsa sidelines this Saturday; against NCAA rules

[badger]

Art Briles... or Art Belichick?
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/ousportsextra/ou-sports-baylor-s-briles-apologizes-for-bears-assistant-who/article_3394357c-8f86-58d0-81ae-0b9ea76be352.html


Baylor assistant coach Jeff Lebby was on the Tulsa sideline during Saturday’s game at Oklahoma. Bob Stoops, during his Monday press conference, said he wasn’t aware of his presence until after the contest.

Lebby’s attendance would break NCAA bylaw 11.6.1 which prohibits off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents.

“I didn’t find that out until after the game,” Stoops said. “That’s a pretty fundamental rule. That’s not allowed. I don’t know what he was doing here.”

Bob Stoops will downplay it today because he's teaching his team to not have excuses, which I've always enjoyed. The rest of us should cast the first stone immediately :mad:

Cheaters. There. I said it. I think they were cheating. I think they were hoping to not get caught and I think they knew exactly what they were doing. Good riddance to not being able to schedule Tulsa again until 2020 at the earliest. I love TU, but the Baylor Belichicks need to get penalized for this.

:D Let's suspend their quarterback for four games :D

[IslandSooner]

I have a hard time believing Briles wasn't involved to some degree

[BetterSoonerThanLater]

of course he knows....thats exaclty the kind of **** he would do

[CincySooner]

Hmmm... the fact that Lebby was on the sidelines means one of two things
1) Tulsa invited Lebby and he said "yes", knowing it's against the rules
2) or Lebby/Baylor called Tulsa and they said "ok", knowing it's against the rules

Either way, both schools broke the rules. I don't expect much in the way of a penalty. You really have to wonder why he was even there. I can't see a competitive advantage for Baylor at all... I mean the game is 2 months away. I like Tulsa, but is it possible that Tulsa was trying to gain an advantage by having him there?

[tycat947]

of course he knows....thats exaclty the kind of **** he would do

Big 12 needs enema to rid itself of sh** called Hypocrite U! What a scumbag pretend institution!

[aurorasooner]

Baylor assistant coach Jeff Lebby was on the Tulsa sideline during Saturday’s game at Oklahoma. While I would be more concerned if we played Baylor next week or in the next couple of weeks, I think the bigger question is, did Lebby fleece our Athletic Dept out of one of those free concession vouchers as well ? That would really pizz off our season ticket holders.

[rock on sooner]

Wonder how loud the cry would be if one of OUr assistants was on an
upcoming opponent's sideline?.......

[SicEmBaylor]

He shouldn't have been there. That was absolutely a mistake, but the idea that he was 'scouting' to gather information and report back is absolute nonsense. Monty and CAB routinely talk to one another, they're close friends, and obviously Monty is going to hand over every bit of film and information that may be valuable to us when we play OU. We don't need an assistant to risk that much for absolutely no gain.

He was there to support Monty and the TU coaching staff. He's an OU alumni and played for OU and my understanding is that he wanted to show his wife around Norman and the campus. Briles called Stoops and personally apologized. Much ado about nothing.

[KantoSooner]

Probably depends on the upcoming opponent. Most would respond about like Stoops. Disapproval, but not ballistic. Baylor themselves would have crapped their shorts, wrapped themselves in the flag and begun praying (loudly and checking first to make sure they were on camera) for Bob's immortal soul. Texas and Kansas would probably have just sighed wearily and continued preparing for whoever was scheduled to kick their azzes next week.

[badger]

Texas and Kansas would probably have just sighed wearily and continued preparing for whoever was scheduled to kick their azzes next week
That's what they do Mondays. Sunday's the day of rest :P

Also, I am not outraged about this. They cheated, but they may very well run circles around our defense regardless. My holiday plans no longer revolve around what bowl OU goes to, so whether we go 8-5 or 14-0 is of no consequence to me. I would really like to see the NCAA and NFL enforce their rules a little better, however

[SicEmBaylor]

Also, I am not outraged about this. They cheated, but they may very well run circles around our defense regardless. My holiday plans no longer revolve around what bowl OU goes to, so whether we go 8-5 or 14-0 is of no consequence to me. I would really like to see the NCAA and NFL enforce their rules a little better, however

Serious question, aside from the actual violation, what sort of information do you think he was getting by personally being on the sideline that our staff wouldn't get anyway from Monty directly? Everything he could possibly tell CAB about the game will be told to him directly from Montgomery, so I can't see what anyone thinks the guy got out of being there.

It is as I said -- he was supporting the TU staff and showing his wife around campus.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

There is no benefit to Tulsa for him being on that sideline..None.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

There is no reason for anyone to be present to scout in an age were any of us can scout the next game from our own toilet..

[SicEmBaylor]

There is no benefit to Tulsa for him being on that sideline..None.

There's no benefit for us either.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Lebby was an OU athlete and student coach who roomed with Runnels btw.

[SicEmBaylor]

It was very poor judgement, but it wasn't cheating.

[KantoSooner]

It may have even been cheating, but meaningless, Hillary style cheating for cheating' sake more than actual results oriented cheating.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I wasn't implying there any benefit to anyone..Just most of the people talking said he was there to help Tulsa, not scout for Baylor.

Because you know, you can just show up at a field, and another team's players will start taking direction from you on the fly.

[SicEmBaylor]

Aye. If they could prove he was giving direction to the players then I'd have a huge ****ing problem with one of our coaches coaching another team. That's a fireable offense if there ever was one. But, I don't think Montgomery would allow that. It would undermine his own coaches, for one thing, and I don't think he'd have much to contribute beyond what existing TU coaches can do.

[mainline13]

That's what they do Mondays. Sunday's the day of rest :P

Also, I am not outraged about this. They cheated, but they may very well run circles around our defense regardless. My holiday plans no longer revolve around what bowl OU goes to, so whether we go 8-5 or 14-0 is of no consequence to me. I would really like to see the NCAA and NFL enforce their rules a little better, however

It does kind of remind me of the PI towards the end of the Tennessee game. Their fans say "uncatchable," and we say "we don't know that, since he never had the chance to jump."

Baylor has kicked us pretty good lately, but if there is any possibility of gaining extra insight, unavailable on film, by attending the game - then we may never know if they would have kicked us around anyway. And if there isn't any extra insight to be gained, then why is it a rule at all?

Other than that, I do wish that rules (pretty much all of them, everywhere) would either be applied universally or be dropped / cancelled / deleted / whatever.

[FlatLander]

And if there isn't any extra insight to be gained, then why is it a rule at all?


My guess is, that it was a rule put in place a loooong time ago before technology and stuff.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

What he said..Before every game was televised and sharing film wasn't such a universal thing as it is now between coaches..

[olevetonahill]

What he said..Before every game was televised and sharing film wasn't such a universal thing as it is now between coaches..

Did the King really Hide in a tree or have some one hide in a tree to spy on Saxet? LMAO

[SicEmBaylor]

Did the King really Hide in a tree or have some one hide in a tree to spy on Saxet? LMAO


I like to think that he did.

[mainline13]

What he said..Before every game was televised and sharing film wasn't such a universal thing as it is now between coaches..

Just the same, I hope that we change all our hand signals for each game. Just sayin'.

[olevetonahill]

I like to think that he did.

Why? so Briles and the rest of his staff dont appear to be such a doosh then?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

jeff lebby. holy cripes 2001 recruiting class i believe

[olevetonahill]

jeff lebby. holy cripes 2001 recruiting class i believe

Yup, Read he got injured and spent 4 years as a GA coach here.

[Soonerfan88]

I don't care who may or may not have gained anything from it, it's chickensh!t. How can any coach not know this is against the rules? Lebby was reportedly in the area for a wedding which means it wasn't a last minute trip. How hard would it be to pick up the phone and let your old coach know you want to bring your wife to the game? And for Montgomery to also claim such ignorance of the rule that he left them sideline passes? Pure chickensh!t.

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't care who may or may not have gained anything from it, it's chickensh!t. How can any coach not know this is against the rules? Lebby was reportedly in the area for a wedding which means it wasn't a last minute trip. How hard would it be to pick up the phone and let your old coach know you want to bring your wife to the game? And for Montgomery to also claim such ignorance of the rule that he left them sideline passes? Pure chickensh!t.

I pretty much agree with most of that. Honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of defending this crap. This **** needs to stop. I don't know what the hell is going on but ever since the Michigan State game last year and then the whole SU rape assault...the big green and gold ship of awesome just don't seem to be on an even keel.

I said just before the season started that I thought we'd drop two regular season games. I'm starting to think it might be 3 or even, god forbid, 4. This staff is the epitome of distracted.

[Soonerjeepman]

#1 he knew the rules...bull crap move
#2 if he graduated from OU why not use his connections to stand on OU side?
#3 even with all that...the game was on tv...sure there is plenty of tape to scout

[Soonerjeepman]

I pretty much agree with most of that. Honestly, I'm getting kind of tired of defending this crap. This **** needs to stop. I don't know what the hell is going on but ever since the Michigan State game last year and then the whole SU rape assault...the big green and gold ship of awesome just don't seem to be on an even keel.

I said just before the season started that I thought we'd drop two regular season games. I'm starting to think it might be 3 or even, god forbid, 4. This staff is the epitome of distracted.

I haven't waTched bu...but after watching Tulsa burn the secondary even if bu isn't up to their standard from the last few years you'll be fine against us. The difference is we have a decent offense this year

[Soonerjeepman]

Briles is one helluva coach and mentor...dad....

He suspended his son the week before for recruiting violations this last spring...now his son in law does this.

Lol, great example. YES, he is held to a higher standard...just like Stoops...

[Pride1Mom]

If head coaches are responsible for their players' misdeeds, then they should also be responsible for the assistant coaches! NCAA better take a HARD look on the Baylor program....it just doesn't "smell" right!

[70sooner]

dunno, but J D Runnels doesn't seem to think it's that big of a deal.


He was roommates with former OU fullback J.D. Runnels, who said he saw and spoke with Lebby on the sideline at Saturday’s game.

Runnels called the situation a “non-story.”

“I know fans want there to be something, but there’s just not,” Runnels said. “Quite frankly, Baylor’s beat us the last two years. For him, there’s nothing to scout, sad to say. There wasn’t any note-taking. There was none of that.

“I don’t like Baylor, OK? I do not like Baylor. I don’t like that they’re having success. I’m glad he’s doing well, but I don’t like getting our a-- kicked at home or losing two years in a row to who used to be a bottom-feeder in this conference.

“If it was something, I would tell it. Trust me, but there’s nothing to tell.”

[badger]

Well hell, let's just have Art Briles stand over there next time supporting his former offensive coordinator, if this is not a big deal and there's nothing to this :P He just likes to visit Norman, probably (given how often he's won here recently, argh). He's just supporting his friend and colleague. There's no advantage to him being on the sideline.

Let's invite all Big 12 coaches to stand on the opposing sideline whenever their teams have byes. They can also wear the opposing team's shirts too so that they blend in better. :mad:

[SicEmBaylor]

If head coaches are responsible for their players' misdeeds, then they should also be responsible for the assistant coaches! NCAA better take a HARD look on the Baylor program....it just doesn't "smell" right!

Is it a bad fishy odor? Especially noticeable when in some state of undress?

[tooslow]

Speaking of Baylor, their game with TCU should be a little more interesting this year:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/college-football/story/_/id/13717991/gary-patterson-tcu-horned-frogs-says-mike-tuaua-arrest-not-even-close-happened-south-here

[rock on sooner]

Did the King really Hide in a tree or have some one hide in a tree to spy on Saxet? LMAO

Welp, he hung out in a motel in Hooks, TX for 77 days/nights to get
Sims so I wouldn't be surprised if he clumb up a tree just to pi$$
Darrell Royal off....:biggrin:

[SoonerMom2]

SoonerScoop has close in pictures of the wife on the 25 yard line with what looks to be an I Phone just out her purse. That purse which I have for travel is meant to be across the body and hands free but hers is at the side and you can tell the hands are in odd position. She is ten yards away from her husband which destroys they were there with friends not to mention the so-called wedding was Friday night, and reason he left after 1st Quarter was OU Compliance asked them to leave. BTW OU cancelled talks with Tulsa on future games according to radio. Would say Stoops is livid after he kept Lebby on scholarship after getting hurt and then was a grad assistant for a year and he stabs him in the back. Wedding was in OKC -- no reason to come to Norman. Briles is lying as usual.

[olevetonahill]

SoonerScoop has close in pictures of the wife on the 25 yard line with what looks to be an I Phone just out her purse. That purse which I have for travel is meant to be across the body and hands free but hers is at the side and you can tell the hands are in odd position. She is ten yards away from her husband which destroys they were there with friends not to mention the so-called wedding was Friday night, and reason he left after 1st Quarter was OU Compliance asked them to leave. BTW OU cancelled talks with Tulsa on future games according to radio. Would say Stoops is livid after he kept Lebby on scholarship after getting hurt and then was a grad assistant for a year and he stabs him in the back. Wedding was in OKC -- no reason to come to Norman. Briles is lying as usual.

Good Jorb. Id spek ya if I could.

[Soonerfan88]

Someone on Scout suggests it is this instead of a phone

http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/skuimages/large/N247-2110_chiclet01_ac_mn_4968902.jpg

[birddog]

Found out some info on briles. He's all set to be the next head coach for teh pats.

[SicEmBaylor]

Briles is lying as usual.

Your proof is what, precisely? And don't say the bull**** coming out of your *** because that doesn't count.

[SicEmBaylor]

Someone on Scout suggests it is this instead of a phone

http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/skuimages/large/N247-2110_chiclet01_ac_mn_4968902.jpg

640x480? lolz

Here's an even better piece of spy equipment:

http://mytechreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Samsung-2012-ES-LED-580.jpg

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm going ask this question again: What bit of information do you think Libby is going to get from being on the sideline that Briles is going to get that he couldn't get from Monty and the rest of the TU staff?

Precisely, what. And don't give me this BS that Libby was helping coach. The only person that knows the system better than Briles is Montgomery. I don't want to degrade Libby's ability, but the guy isn't so important that TU needed him on the sideline to help out.

[SicEmBaylor]

You people are as bad as 9/11 truthers. So irrational is your hate for Briles, because he dared win against a blue blood program like OU, that you believe absolutely any bull**** that gets passed around the internet. Pitiful.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm going ask this question again: What bit of information do you think Libby is going to get from being on the sideline that Briles is going to get that he couldn't get from Monty and the rest of the TU staff?

Precisely, what. And don't give me this BS that Libby was helping coach. The only person that knows the system better than Briles is Montgomery. I don't want to degrade Libby's ability, but the guy isn't so important that TU needed him on the sideline to help out.

Personally, I'd think it was the one piece of information you are allowed to scrub out of all submitted tape of your own team and required to scrub out for the other team -> Signals. The angle makes it pretty easy to grab an entire game's worth.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Oh and honestly i don't really care. I just think its asinine to flaunt the rules like that.

[Therealsouthsider]

I'm going ask this question again: What bit of information do you think Libby is going to get from being on the sideline that Briles is going to get that he couldn't get from Monty and the rest of the TU staff?

Precisely, what. And don't give me this BS that Libby was helping coach. The only person that knows the system better than Briles is Montgomery. I don't want to degrade Libby's ability, but the guy isn't so important that TU needed him on the sideline to help out.

....if you had listened to Pat Jones on the radio today you would have a lot of your questions answered, if you don't think he was gleening info then your pretty damned stupid

ss

[aurorasooner]

Personally, I'd think it was the one piece of information you are allowed to scrub out of all submitted tape of your own team and required to scrub out for the other team -> Signals. The angle makes it pretty easy to grab an entire game's worth.

Good point. We probably should've just kept quiet about it, left that pair on the field as though we hadn't caught on, baited them in critical situations during the game, and changed the correct signals the week before the game while giving them the original false signals during the game. However, keeping a newspaper quiet is definitely the problem. They all want to be 1st with the 70/30 blockbuster scoop and there's absolutely zero home team loyalty any more.

All these explanations coming from Waco do stink to high heaven as does Briles and family imo, as more and more of the incident comes out. He definitely isn't a play by the rules kind of guy is my impression fwiw and, as mentioned earlier, getting the rep of the CFB Bill Belicheat.

[SicEmBaylor]

Personally, I'd think it was the one piece of information you are allowed to scrub out of all submitted tape of your own team and required to scrub out for the other team -> Signals. The angle makes it pretty easy to grab an entire game's worth.

If we're going to play that card, then let's talk about the Sumlin/OU incident. When Sumlin took over at Houston, Briles left all of his play calls/signals with the new staff to make the transition easier. Sumlin then faxed all of that information to OU. Briles was very unhappy.

[SicEmBaylor]

Here's the statement from Montgomery:

“Obviously, it was a mistake and a poor decision on my part to leave a credential for Jeff and his wife. They were in the Oklahoma City-Norman area for a wedding and came to the game to support me,” said Montgomery, who was Baylor’s offensive coordinator between 2006-14. “There was no malicious intent on my part. I've known Jeff since he was in the sixth grade. I called Coach Stoops today and apologized for this situation.”

[tycat947]

....if you had listened to Pat Jones on the radio today you would have a lot of your questions answered, if you don't think he was gleening info then your pretty damned stupid

ss

You speaka the truth!!!

[tycat947]

#1 he knew the rules...bull crap move
#2 if he graduated from OU why not use his connections to stand on OU side?
#3 even with all that...the game was on tv...sure there is plenty of tape to scout

Exactly! You'd think if you'd spent your 4 years of college somewhere that maintained your scholarship after your career never really got started due to injury and the coach that allowed that was still in town, you'd go say hi or something, unless you thought you were in the wrong. Why the heII were they wearing Tulsa blue??? Had to go out of their way to do that and it's not a requirement to stand on the sideline. Only a sideline pass is required! And his wife (Briles' daughter) is carrying a huge bag over her shoulder when you're only going to stay a quarter or so??? Seriously??? And it's totally innocent? Something's stinking and it's not just Wacko and the Hypocrite U! Briles doesn't have a clue where his daughter (wife of his Passing Game Coordinator (Running Backs)/Off. Recruiting Coord.) is all weekend??? Briles has already shown his "True Colors" so I think everyone knows what happened here and I'd bet Montgomery was in the know also.

[olevetonahill]

You people are as bad as 9/11 truthers. So irrational is your hate for Briles, because he dared win against a blue blood program like OU, that you believe absolutely any bull**** that gets passed around the internet. Pitiful.

Whats pitiful is YOU keeping Briles dick in your mouth.
They BROKE the rules, its THAT simple!

[SicEmBaylor]

Whats pitiful is YOU keeping Briles dick in your mouth.
They BROKE the rules, its THAT simple!

I never said they didn't break the rules. In fact, I said they clearly did. I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit but if you try really really hard to sound out those vowels then I'm sure you'll eventually figure out what I wrote.

[SicEmBaylor]

....if you had listened to Pat Jones on the radio today you would have a lot of your questions answered, if you don't think he was gleening info then your pretty damned stupid

ss

You sit around listening to Pat Jones on a sports talk radio show, and I'm the stupid one?

[olevetonahill]

I never said they didn't break the rules. In fact, I said they clearly did. I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit but if you try really really hard to sound out those vowels then I'm sure you'll eventually figure out what I wrote.

Well aren't you the clever little bitch!
Reading comprehension? Try it yourselve some time. In my post I commented on your statement of OUR hatred of Briles, I saw where you said it embarrassed you they broke the rules. Go play withn your barbie doll or whatever.
You might try re-reading what I wrote and get your hatred of ME out of your eyes so you can see clearly:watermelon:

[badger]

SoonerScoop has close in pictures of the wife on the 25 yard line with what looks to be an I Phone just out her purse. That purse which I have for travel is meant to be across the body and hands free but hers is at the side and you can tell the hands are in odd position. She is ten yards away from her husband which destroys they were there with friends not to mention the so-called wedding was Friday night, and reason he left after 1st Quarter was OU Compliance asked them to leave. BTW OU cancelled talks with Tulsa on future games according to radio. Would say Stoops is livid after he kept Lebby on scholarship after getting hurt and then was a grad assistant for a year and he stabs him in the back. Wedding was in OKC -- no reason to come to Norman. Briles is lying as usual.

The advantage to being on the sideline as opposed to the stands or TV is being able to film signals a la the Patriots.


If we're going to play that card, then let's talk about the Sumlin/OU incident. When Sumlin took over at Houston, Briles left all of his play calls/signals with the new staff to make the transition easier. Sumlin then faxed all of that information to OU. Briles was very unhappy.
It sounds like Briles was trying to influence a program that he was no longer part of and Sumlin told him what he thought of his pestering. Here, new coach! I've got lots of great hand signals for you to use because I'm more experienced and I'm more smarter and you need a lot of help. Thanks, coach smartie. I just faxed them all to OU since they need help, too!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

If we're going to play that card, then let's talk about the Sumlin/OU incident. When Sumlin took over at Houston, Briles left all of his play calls/signals with the new staff to make the transition easier. Sumlin then faxed all of that information to OU. Briles was very unhappy.

And John Blake burned all of OU's recruiting files before Stoops got on campus. None of those things are against NCAA rules, but sending a coach to scout another team dressed as an opposing coach is. Like I said, it is just the stupidity of the whole situation.

[SicEmBaylor]

And John Blake burned all of OU's recruiting files before Stoops got on campus. None of those things are against NCAA rules, but sending a coach to scout another team dressed as an opposing coach is. Like I said, it is just the stupidity of the whole situation.

I've said all along that it is absolutely an NCAA violation, and I even agree there should be some sort of sanction or internal punishment. What I'm arguing is that Libby was not there to cheat. Neither Briles nor Monty had him on the sideline to do anything untoward.

My example with Sumlin/Briles/OU is entirely based on the *ethics* of the situation. Yes, Libby was there; no, he wasn't there to cheat or get any sort of advantage. It was against NCAA rules, but it was *not* unethical. On the other hand, Sumlin may not have broke NCAA rules but I consider his actions to be entirely unethical.

So which is worse? Breaking an archaic NCAA rule that hasn't kept apace of current technology or breaking some clear ethical standards to get an actual advantage?

[SoonerorLater]

I've said all along that it is absolutely an NCAA violation, and I even agree there should be some sort of sanction or internal punishment. What I'm arguing is that Libby was not there to cheat. Neither Briles nor Monty had him on the sideline to do anything untoward.

My example with Sumlin/Briles/OU is entirely based on the *ethics* of the situation. Yes, Libby was there; no, he wasn't there to cheat or get any sort of advantage. It was against NCAA rules, but it was *not* unethical. On the other hand, Sumlin may not have broke NCAA rules but I consider his actions to be entirely unethical.

So which is worse? Breaking an archaic NCAA rule that hasn't kept apace of current technology or breaking some clear ethical standards to get an actual advantage?

Breaking an archaic NCAA rule because it is just that, a rule. If the NCAA feels the behavior you described as 'unethical' is detrimental to college football then they need to make a rule to that effect.

[SicEmBaylor]

Breaking an archaic NCAA rule because it is just that, a rule. If the NCAA feels the behavior you described as 'unethical' is detrimental to college football then they need to make a rule to that effect.

Well, fair enough -- to each their own. I think, objectively speaking, that unethical behavior is worse than an archaic NCAA infraction. That's just me, but that's not to say that I don't think the NCAA should do something and/or an internal punishment. Because the end result here is that OU benefited from learning the signals of a team they play each year; whereas, in the case of Libby, that isn't the case.

[CincySooner]

Ugh... so tired of hearing about this. If he wasn't there to get information, then just levy a fine at both schools and be done with it. No one is getting suspended over this, so lets all stop crossing-our fingers for that to happen.

[Soonerjeepman]

Well, fair enough -- to each their own. I think, objectively speaking, that unethical behavior is worse than an archaic NCAA infraction. That's just me, but that's not to say that I don't think the NCAA should do something and/or an internal punishment. Because the end result here is that OU benefited from learning the signals of a team they play each year; whereas, in the case of Libby, that isn't the case.

you still think briles uses the same hand signals? wow...the benefit is gone....and if briles was smart there never was an advantage.

[SicEmBaylor]

you still think briles uses the same hand signals? wow...the benefit is gone....and if briles was smart there never was an advantage.

Well, since it was Briles' first season at Baylor and he was pretty busy rebuilding one of the worst programs in FBS football, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume he had more on his plate than changing all of his signals. Especially since he was switching to a different conference where he wouldn't be playing Houston. So, yeah, I think he probably did use the same signals that season.

[herecomedajudge]

Looks like Baylor is suspending Lebby for 1st half of game with OU.

http://www.big12sports.com//ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=210365430&DB_OEM_ID=10410
Big 12 Issues Public Reprimand

[SicEmBaylor]

Looks like Baylor is suspending Lebby for 1st half of game with OU.

http://www.big12sports.com//ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=210365430&DB_OEM_ID=10410
Big 12 Issues Public Reprimand

Should be the entire game.

[olevetonahill]

Well, fair enough -- to each their own. I think,
objectively speaking, that unethical behavior is worse than an archaic NCAA infraction. That's just me, but that's not to say that I don't think the NCAA should do something and/or an internal punishment. Because the end result here is that OU benefited from learning the signals of a team they play each year; whereas, in the case of Libby, that isn't the case.

You cant be Objective about this, You rush to defend when theres really nothing to defend. Oh and You know for a fact none of those 3 had any motive to get an advantage? were you in a meeting with them?

[SicEmBaylor]

You cant be Objective about this
I'm as objective about this as a Baylor fan as you are as an OU fan. What I am, however, is rational. I'm also more objective about this situation than you are. I said he violated NCAA rules. I said he should be suspended for the entire game. I said either internal punishments or NCAA sanctions would be appropriate. The only thing you've done is argue ape-**** crazy lunacy with not a shred of evidence to support anything you say.

You rush to defend when theres really nothing to defend.
This makes absolutely no sense. What is it that you think I'm defending? The fact that assumptions are being made by people who have absolutely no, zero, zip, nadda evidence to support in any shape, form, or function the accusations that have been made?

Oh and You know for a fact none of those 3 had any motive to get an advantage? were you in a meeting with them?Were you in a meeting with them? WTF advantage, which is a question I've been asking over and over and over again, could Libby possibly have got out of that above and beyond what Briles is going to get from Montgomery himself? Libby is an *offensive* coach. Do you think Briles and the rest of the staff need help in game planning from observations that Libby makes? Seriously? And you honestly think that of all the coaches and staff members on the Baylor staff that Briles would sneak in the one coach who not only used to be on the OU staff but also played for OU? O'Rlly? That cheap beer you drink has killed enough brain cells. Be logical and rational for once and apply just a little bit of common sense to the situation.

[SoonerorLater]

Well, fair enough -- to each their own. I think, objectively speaking, that unethical behavior is worse than an archaic NCAA infraction. That's just me, but that's not to say that I don't think the NCAA should do something and/or an internal punishment. Because the end result here is that OU benefited from learning the signals of a team they play each year; whereas, in the case of Libby, that isn't the case.

As far as the violation, I don't see it as some huge deal in and of itself. As as a stand alone issue it probably should be a wrist slap.

If ethics are an issue I would suggest that Baylor seems to be constantly tight-roping on the edge of principled behavior more so than any other current Big 12 Program. Each time Briles just sort of shrugs his shoulders and feigns incredulity. Sort of West Texas version of Captain Renault in Casablanca.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I've said all along that it is absolutely an NCAA violation, and I even agree there should be some sort of sanction or internal punishment. What I'm arguing is that Libby was not there to cheat. Neither Briles nor Monty had him on the sideline to do anything untoward.

My example with Sumlin/Briles/OU is entirely based on the *ethics* of the situation. Yes, Libby was there; no, he wasn't there to cheat or get any sort of advantage. It was against NCAA rules, but it was *not* unethical. On the other hand, Sumlin may not have broke NCAA rules but I consider his actions to be entirely unethical.

So which is worse? Breaking an archaic NCAA rule that hasn't kept apace of current technology or breaking some clear ethical standards to get an actual advantage?

You skipped over the fact that the reason for that "archaic" rule has to do with protecting signals. There is a reason that the Pats lost a 1st round draft pick over it when they do -> teams can't change their signals every game for 200 plays. And btw, the NFL has 10x the practice and meeting time as college football. Correlating the Pats punishment to this would mean a loss of 5-6 scholarships (Pats lost a 1st rounder and 2 supplementals)

[olevetonahill]

I'm as objective about this as a Baylor fan as you are as an OU fan. What I am, however, is rational. I'm also more objective about this situation than you are. I said he violated NCAA rules. I said he should be suspended for the entire game. I said either internal punishments or NCAA sanctions would be appropriate. The only thing you've done is argue ape-**** crazy lunacy with not a shred of evidence to support anything you say.

This makes absolutely no sense. What is it that you think I'm defending? The fact that assumptions are being made by people who have absolutely no, zero, zip, nadda evidence to support in any shape, form, or function the accusations that have been made?
Were you in a meeting with them? WTF advantage, which is a question I've been asking over and over and over again, could Libby possibly have got out of that above and beyond what Briles is going to get from Montgomery himself? Libby is an *offensive* coach. Do you think Briles and the rest of the staff need help in game planning from observations that Libby makes? Seriously? And you honestly think that of all the coaches and staff members on the Baylor staff that Briles would sneak in the one coach who not only used to be on the OU staff but also played for OU? O'Rlly? That cheap beer you drink has killed enough brain cells. Be logical and rational for once and apply just a little bit of common sense to the situation.

You just want to argue Ya moran.
Go argue with your Mom and sister, they love you.

[SicEmBaylor]

You skipped over the fact that the reason for that "archaic" rule has to do with protecting signals. There is a reason that the Pats lost a 1st round draft pick over it when they do -> teams can't change their signals every game for 200 plays. And btw, the NFL has 10x the practice and meeting time as college football. Correlating the Pats punishment to this would mean a loss of 5-6 scholarships (Pats lost a 1st rounder and 2 supplementals)

I agree the rule was violated and agree there should be a punishment. I don't agree that signals were being stolen. And it's archaic because technology exist now rendering the rule moot. There are any number of ways, easier than putting a coach on the sideline, to steal the signals.

[SoonerorLater]

Briles' daughter too? This whole thing really does have a Belichick feel to it.

http://www.scout.com/college/oklahoma/forums/2445-football-recruiting/14118146-briles-daughter-apparently-films-ou-from-tulsa-sideline

[SicEmBaylor]

Briles' daughter too? This whole thing really does have a Belichick feel to it.

http://www.scout.com/college/oklahoma/forums/2445-football-recruiting/14118146-briles-daughter-apparently-films-ou-from-tulsa-sideline

Briles daughter is married to Libby, for God's sake. That's his wife whom he was with which we've known from the very beginning. They were in Norman for a wedding, and Monty invited them both to the sideline for the game. And are we seriously going by a grainy photo of her pulling out a cell from her purse? Seriously?

Jeeezus Christ some of you people are paranoid beyond belief.

[JLMSOONER]

Briles daughter is married to Libby, for God's sake. That's his wife whom he was with which we've known from the very beginning. They were in Norman for a wedding, and Monty invited them both to the sideline for the game. And are we seriously going by a grainy photo of her pulling out a cell from her purse? Seriously?

Jeeezus Christ some of you people are paranoid beyond belief.


Sir, you do realize this is a SOONER board that you are trying so preciously to defend your bears on......right?

[SicEmBaylor]

Sir, you do realize this is a SOONER board that you are trying so preciously to defend your bears on......right?

Whoa, dude, this is a Sooner message board? Well, bend me over and slap me silly. ;)

[Salt City Sooner]

What advantage could be gained by Lebby scouting the Sooners in person? While Art Briles admitted that Lebby's presence in Norman was “unethical," he downplayed the incident's importance. “From a strategic standpoint or an advantage, it's absolutely goose egg," he told ESPN Central Texas. “You learn more watching on TV than you can standing on the sideline."

Three Big 12 assistant coaches disagreed, pointing out the advantage of seeing an opposing team's hand signals, and hearing snap counts and play calls. They said that creates a decisive advantage in preparation. “Some of the things you can't get on film, the cadence, if the quarterback's hard counting, maybe checks at the line," says one assistant. “Defensively, if they're making calls, what they're doing."

http://www.campusrush.com/baylor-art-briles-oklahoma-sooners-sideline-1364221682.html

[olevetonahill]

Whoa, dude, this is a Sooner message board? Well, bend me over and slap me silly. ;)

That happened a long time ago in a land far away.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You sit around listening to Pat Jones on a sports talk radio show, and I'm the stupid one?OKay...speck!

[swardboy]

http://www.campusrush.com/baylor-art-briles-oklahoma-sooners-sideline-1364221682.html

Briles should serve a suspension. Either he is or isn't the captain of the ship.

[JLMSOONER]

Whoa, dude, this is a Sooner message board? Well, bend me over and slap me silly. ;)

Well, you appear to be trying to change the opinions of those on this board. It's like Davie Crockett trying to change Santa Anna's opinion on attacking the Alamo. It's just weird.

[badger]

I am fine with the half-game suspension. This is a warning and the next offense will carry a much larger penalty. This time, we brand them on a forehead with a "C" for cheater. Next offense, we brand them with a "U" for unrepentant. Third offense, we brand them with a "T" for treacherous.

They won't care until they look in the mirror and their forehead reads:
http://www.fwweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/TCU-logo.jpg


It's not even close to what happened south of here
Nyuck nyuck nyuck :D

[badger]

Also, check out Libby and wife on OU sideline in background:
http://i58.tinypic.com/1szbk0.jpg
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/sports/johnehoover/john-e-hoover-big-s-suspension-of-baylor-assistant-fits/article_9c1b2479-df64-5c3b-8891-32c80a8c8550.html


Although, if you really like conspiracy theories, check out some of the screen-capture images circulating on social media taken by OU fans from the television feed; they show Lebby with his wife Staley — also Baylor coach Art Briles’ daughter — who is standing on the TU sideline facing the OU bench with her purse hanging in front of her rather than at her side or behind her, and is clearly depicted numerous times with her hand either in or on her purse; in more than one image, she has her hand on what looks like a cell phone. The tinfoil hat set suggests the pics have the appearance of espionage straight out of a Jason Bourne novel, that she’s recording signals from the OU sideline, but who can say what’s really happening in a handful of still images?

[jkjsooner]

Also, check out Libby and wife on OU sideline in background:
http://i58.tinypic.com/1szbk0.jpg
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/sports/johnehoover/john-e-hoover-big-s-suspension-of-baylor-assistant-fits/article_9c1b2479-df64-5c3b-8891-32c80a8c8550.html

Seems a little CYA from Hoover by referring to it as a conspiracy theory from tinfoil hat wearers. The fact that there are multiple images throughout the game where she is in the same awkward position is troubling. One image could be explained away - she is in the process of pulling something out of her purse. There's really no other explanation behind the multiple images that seem to show that she spent a lot of time in that same position with that object just peaking out of her purse.

It's not like such things are unheard of. The Patriots got caught doing it.

[SicEmBaylor]

Seems a little CYA from Hoover by referring to it as a conspiracy theory from tinfoil hat wearers. The fact that there are multiple images throughout the game where she is in the same awkward position is troubling. One image could be explained away - she is in the process of pulling something out of her purse. There's really no other explanation behind the multiple images that seem to show that she spent a lot of time in that same position with that object just peaking out of her purse.

It's not like such things are unheard of. The Patriots got caught doing it.

I haven't seen multiple images. I've seen one image cropped multiple ways. She's pulling her cell phone out.

[olevetonahill]

I haven't seen multiple images. I've seen one image cropped multiple ways. She's pulling her cell phone out.

Keep it up sic. Its cute
http://ryanhipp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Tom_Sawyer_whitewash_fence.png

[SicEmBaylor]

Keep it up sic. Its cute
http://ryanhipp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Tom_Sawyer_whitewash_fence.png

http://aattp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/tinfoil_hat.jpg

[tooslow]

Seems fairly obvious. She has one hand on the recording device and one hand on the purse to keep the image as stable as possible. The other thing is why wear Tulsa colors? Be proud of your school and father and wear BU colors, unless you're trying to blend in because you know it's wrong. With that being said, we just need to adjust the counts and hand signals. I'm sure it's easier said than done. What's funny is that BU really didn't need to do this. I currently don't see our D stopping them enough to allow our O to get into a rhythm. The good news is that there's hopefully enough time to get things on the defensive side squared away before we play them.

[olevetonahill]

http://aattp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/tinfoil_hat.jpg

That aint the Pic you posted of YOU in yer tinfoil hat clown.
Im not saying anything remotley tin foilish, You just keep white washing all of baylors sins from Oakman on . Bite me punk.

[tycat947]

Seems fairly obvious. She has one hand on the recording device and one hand on the purse to keep the image as stable as possible. The other thing is why wear Tulsa colors? Be proud of your school and father and wear BU colors, unless you're trying to blend in because you know it's wrong. With that being said, we just need to adjust the counts and hand signals. I'm sure it's easier said than done. What's funny is that BU really didn't need to do this. I currently don't see our D stopping them enough to allow our O to get into a rhythm. The good news is that there's hopefully enough time to get things on the defensive side squared away before we play them.

Exactly! The only requirement to being on the sideline is a SIDELINE PASS, not the team colors! Very disappointing for Lebby, an OU alum, to even try to be deceitful to your alma mater! You could halfway understand if he were at TU-OSU game or TU-New Mexico game, etc but to be on opponent sideline of your alma mater when they are playing? There is a clear intent to deceive here, both by Lebby and Baby Briles and Art himself. They are lying if they say anything else. Big 12 get your enema bag ready and rid yourself of this POS Hypocrite U!

[BlownGP]

This is interesting...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-nuENq9AmeSckENpssVafBXZU6N28osZSe4K3nrN-ps/mobilebasic?pli=1

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Exactly! The only requirement to being on the sideline is a SIDELINE PASS, not the team colors! Very disappointing for Lebby, an OU alum, to even try to be deceitful to your alma mater! You could halfway understand if he were at TU-OSU game or TU-New Mexico game, etc but to be on opponent sideline of your alma mater when they are playing? There is a clear intent to deceive here, both by Lebby and Baby Briles and Art himself. They are lying if they say anything else. Big 12 get your enema bag ready and rid yourself of this POS Hypocrite U!Best post in thread award!!!

[SicEmBaylor]

This is interesting...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-nuENq9AmeSckENpssVafBXZU6N28osZSe4K3nrN-ps/mobilebasic?pli=1

So is this: http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/the-most-arrested-college-football-teams-in-america-081815

[jkjsooner]

I haven't seen multiple images. I've seen one image cropped multiple ways. She's pulling her cell phone out.

Well, the pics I've seen where she was in that exact same position did occur within the same second. (The post I saw mentioned it was several seconds later but it was in fact within a second.) I went back and watched the video. As the video panned she was in the frame for at least 1/2 second and there was no movement in her body. If you're pulling your phone out and putting it in your purse there is going to be significant movement in 1/2 second. If you watch the video, even though it goes by really quickly, she is awkwardly stiff. There is nothing natural at all.

That's not to mention that Lebby seems to be intently looking in the same direction as she is which is not towards the players on the field.

I'd like to see people gather up their photos taken from the west stands while OU was on offense in the first quarter and see exactly how many shots we have of her with her camera pointed towards the OU coaches...

[KantoSooner]

Folks, his presence was a violation. His failure to notify stoops and wearing of tulsa gear is evidence that he both knew that and intended to deceive. Clearly Montgomery was aware. Briles was also clearly aware.
But here's the rub: nothing that might have been gained could not have been gained legally. If no one is doing so, I'll set up a service. Hover a drone with a good quality camera and run a video feed of signals. Cross reference against game film. The coaches can pay me a flat $10k per game. My 17 year old neighbor kid will do the job for pizza and a c-note.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Folks, his presence was a violation. His failure to notify stoops and wearing of tulsa gear is evidence that he both knew that and intended to deceive. Clearly Montgomery was aware. Briles was also clearly aware.
But here's the rub: nothing that might have been gained could not have been gained legally. If no one is doing so, I'll set up a service. Hover a drone with a good quality camera and run a video feed of signals. Cross reference against game film. The coaches can pay me a flat $10k per game. My 17 year old neighbor kid will do the job for pizza and a c-note.

The coaches seeing the film or the result of the film would be a violation. If its a public institution the NCAA would do a records request and put them on probation for LOIC. You can't do that for a private school, which is why the coaches at them tend to get so brazen (SMU, USC, etc).

[KantoSooner]

really? Analyzing film would be a violation? With all the camera angles, it would be more troublesome, but still doable to simply capture commercially available feed and do the cross reference. Are you saying that you can watch film to learn, say blocking schemes, but not, say, a center's tics prior to count? I can't see how on earth anyone imagines this to be policeds.
However, if that is indeed the rule. Then you simply sell the data undigested and let nature take its course.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

really? Analyzing film would be a violation? With all the camera angles, it would be more troublesome, but still doable to simply capture commercially available feed and do the cross reference. Are you saying that you can watch film to learn, say blocking schemes, but not, say, a center's tics prior to count? I can't see how on earth anyone imagines this to be policeds.
However, if that is indeed the rule. Then you simply sell the data undigested and let nature take its course.

Anything on the field is fair game. But film of the sidelines is considered off limits. Otherwise, you could get things like injury reports etc by filming the training table. You have to scrub that out of all film for the 11 on 11.

[KantoSooner]

Fine. But in scrubbable. Any low level cam will catch it. Not saying it's not the rule, just saying it's akin to a thought crime.

[badger]

But film of the sidelines is considered off limits.
You all might recall a decade or so ago a reporter posted a film of Mark Mangino going nuts with audio at a player penalized for diving into the endzone after a punt return touchdown. I don't think that reporter was ever allowed on KU sidelines again because it was such a no-no.

Aside from coaching profanity, filming picks up other audio that could be considered a competitive advantage. I know the wife was on the TU sidelines, but the closer you are to the field, the more you sounds you can pick up audibly. OU fans are smart enough to be quiet when OU is on offense that it is conceivable that you could pick up offensive audibles from either sideline with recording equipment. Of course, so can high def TV broadcasters.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Fine. But in scrubbable. Any low level cam will catch it. Not saying it's not the rule, just saying it's akin to a thought crime.

Which is why I keep coming back to how stupid this is.

[KantoSooner]

Exactly.
It's the equivalent of a dinner guest making off with not the silver but the extra rolls of toilet paper.
Just typical Baylor.

[badger]

Just typical Baylor
But not typical Tulsa, who may have just cost them the most lucrative series they're ever going to get in college football. What day can they raise ticket prices to Power 5 team levels? What day do local businesses suddenly charge $20 for parking instead of $5? What day do they actually have every seat filled in their dinky 30K capacity stadium?

It wasn't when OSU came to town. They were letting people in free that game :stunned:











... before any Pokes jump on me, that game was scheduled to kickoff at 9 pm and was lightning delayed till after midnight. It was the worst possible scenario ever and so they were just letting anyone still left after that huge delay in for free. They should have cancelled or rescheduled the game but... yeah

[KantoSooner]

You're right. Tulsa is essentially better than Montgomery and the trailer trash he's brought with him.
But they should have known what they were buying

[SoonerorLater]

Exactly.
It's the equivalent of a dinner guest making off with not the silver but the extra rolls of toilet paper.
Just typical Baylor.

So that's considered improper behavior at dinner parties?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

So that's considered improper behavior at dinner parties?

Only if it is 2ply

[badger]

You're right. Tulsa is essentially better than Montgomery and the trailer trash he's brought with him.
But they should have known what they were buying
They had a nice guy coach, but he only got them 2 wins last season (which they've already matched this season 3 games in). TU decided they'd rather win than be nice... much like Baylor when they brought in Art Briles.

[jkjsooner]

Look what I found.

http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295422

Kind of ironic how recent that thread is. I wonder if they're still so indignant over spying on coach's signals.

[tycat947]

Look what I found.

http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295422

Kind of ironic how recent that thread is. I wonder if they're still so indignant over spying on coach's signals.

Priceless! Thus HYPOCRITES!

[SicEmBaylor]

If we beat OU this season (that's a big 'if' since I've been very bearish on our season -- no pun intended) then I want a Baylor shirt made that says, "11/14 Was an Inside Job!"

[mainline13]

So is this: http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/the-most-arrested-college-football-teams-in-america-081815

Just out of curiosity, how many "Minor In Possession" arrests does it take to equate to murdering a teammate?

[SicEmBaylor]

Just out of curiosity, how many "Minor In Possession" arrests does it take to equate to murdering a teammate?

Don't know. Who murdered a teammate?

[badger]

Don't know. Who murdered a teammate?

My first thought was what caused your basketball team to get a postseason suspension about 15 years ago, but since this is a football discussion... I don't have any way of ending this thought without mentioning Patrick Dennehy sorry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Patrick_Dennehy