Reagan v. Carter

[Serenity Now]

I stumbled across this on facebook. Made me laugh.

Reagan: Did military in Hollywood.
Carter: As a Navy Lieutenant, lowered himself into a damaged nuclear reactor, saving lives.

Reagan: Secretly armed the Islamic Republic of Iran
Carter: Strictly limited arms sales to foreign nations at war.

Reagan: Created an average of 167,000 jobs per month.
Carter: Created an average of 215,000 jobs per month.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2012/11/04/us_presidents_and_job_creation_winners_and_losers_ 99968.html

Jobs created most in order: Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Reagan, Nixon.

I think Carter gets a bad rap. I also like Reagan. You can like them both.

Amazing that 52 hostages were released as soon as Reagan was inaugurated. Wonder why?

The same guys that we sold arms to a few years later......hmmmmmm

Crazy world. Someone oughta sell tickets!

[olevetonahill]

This is ME worrying about YOU
https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11705348_1139767376040605_688092623614057712_n.jpg ?oh=1be9b3039ea4a47e1f925e32d6dfee15&oe=56718FE9

[okie52]

Wow... The 21% prime! gas rationing and windfall profits guy was the good one. What was I thinking!!!

[REDREX]

Wow... The 21% prime! gas rationing and windfall profits guy was the good one. What was I thinking!!!---Not to mention the sky high inflation rate----Carter was clueless-----But we did boycott the Olympics---He showed those Russkies

[FaninAma]

It is somehow reassuring that we can always count on Serenity to regurgitate bull**** from the left.
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/supplyside-tax-cuts-truth-about-reagan-economic-record

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I had as much zeal for Carter in the 1976 election as I did Schlickmeister in '92 and Bear in '08. The Carter induced 21% interest rate was the final straw for him before the 1980 election, if my memory serves me correctly.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

---Not to mention the sky high inflation rate----Carter was clueless-----But we did boycott the Olympics---He showed those RusskiesI remember early on when Carter gave away the Panama Canal. That set the tone for his "administration".

[okie52]

---Not to mention the sky high inflation rate----Carter was clueless-----But we did boycott the Olympics---He showed those Russkies

Sometimes you have to get tough

[champions77]

But it's ok, Serenity "liked" Reagan too.

Carter lost his re-election bid and Reagan won re-election. What were they thinking back then?

[dwarthog]

We just didn't realize how good we had it under Carter I guess....

[TAFBSooner]

It is somehow reassuring that we can always count on Serenity to regurgitate bull**** from the left.
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/supplyside-tax-cuts-truth-about-reagan-economic-record

After the declaration that Serenity's statements were bull****, I expected your citation to refute them. Instead you ignored them and added unrelated information in favor of Reagan. A more accurate formulation would have been " . . . on the other hand, (Cato.org) . . ."

I like some of what Reagan did, too.

"Mr. Gorbachev, Tear down this wall!"

. . . and rebuild it along the Rio Grande!

[Serenity Now]

It is somehow reassuring that we can always count on Serenity to regurgitate bull**** from the left.
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/supplyside-tax-cuts-truth-about-reagan-economic-record

I am not a Reagan hater. I just don't light a candle each morning at sunrise to his picture like some of you guys. And, amnesty/iran/israel/gun control would sink him in today's GOP. He'll he'd be a Democrat.

Carter also called a gutsy raid to go rescue the hostages that failed. I still get a kick that the hostages were released the day of the inauguration by the guys we ended up selling arms illegally to. I mean, what are the odds?

Carter has done the most positives with his life AFTER his service than anyone else. He's much like Tom Coburn to me, even if you don't agree with him you have to respect him. He eradicated the guinea worm.

This quote from the link below says a lot about his failures as a President and his successes as a leader afterwards.

The stubbornness and sense of moral purpose that disabled Carter during his presidency has served him well in these post-presidential crusades.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/carter-guinea-worm/

[Serenity Now]

It is somehow reassuring that we can always count on Serenity to regurgitate bull**** from the left.
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/supplyside-tax-cuts-truth-about-reagan-economic-record

Don't refute bull**** with bull****:
The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded as the Charles Koch Foundation in 1974 by Ed Crane, Murray Rothbard, and Charles Koch,[6] chairman of the board and chief executive officer of the conglomerate Koch Industries.[nb 1] In July 1976, the name was changed to the Cato Institute.[6][7] Cato was established to have a focus on public advocacy, media exposure and societal influence.[8] According to the 2014 Global Go To Think Tank Index Report (Think Tanks and Civil Societies Program, University of Pennsylvania), Cato is number 16 in the "Top Think Tanks Worldwide" and number 8 in the "Top Think Tanks in the United States".[9] Cato also topped the 2014 list of the budget-adjusted ranking of international development think tanks.
1996 is too soon to say if "Reaganomics" succeeded or not. I will say that, according to my MBA economics instructor, the last President to do supply side economics correctly was Kennedy.

[Serenity Now]

I might as well put up a link to mediamatters.org. It's probably less biased.

[TAFBSooner]

---Not to mention the sky high inflation rate----Carter was clueless-----But we did boycott the Olympics---He showed those Russkies

But I thought arming the Afghans beginning in July 1979 was part of not just punishing but ending the Soviet Union . . .

[FaninAma]

Don't refute bull**** with bull****:
1996 is too soon to say if "Reaganomics" succeeded or not. I will say that, according to my MBA economics instructor, the last President to do supply side economics correctly was Kennedy.
Yeah, you're right. The Cato Institute's in depth study on Reagan's policies is equivalent to the erroneous bull**** you pulled off somebody's Facebook page. My bad.

[Serenity Now]

Yeah, you're right. The Cato Institute's in depth study on Reagan's policies is equivalent to the erroneous bull**** you pulled off somebody's Facebook page. My bad.

I beg your pardon, "erroneous" is inaccurate. The numbers about job creation don't lie and I put a link up to indicate such. The other two issues are public information that is a "known/known".

I added the 52 hostages released on my own. It's one of my favorite little asbestos-y things. You guys don't talk about it parties. You know, that 52 hostages were released by the TERRORISTS that we SOLD weapons to illegally just a few years later. But, it gets better...Now we're lambasting the current President for negotiating a nuclear agreement with the P5+1 AND that same group.

[olevetonahill]

I beg your pardon, "erroneous" is inaccurate. The numbers about job creation don't lie and I put a link up to indicate such. The other two issues are public information that is a "known/known".

I added the 52 hostages released on my own. It's one of my favorite little asbestos-y things. You guys don't talk about it parties. You know, that 52 hostages were released by the guys that we bought weapons from illegally just a few years later.

Do you just post crap and hope someone believes it?

[Curly Bill]

Carter was a weak, angst-ridden hand wringer. You'd expect those like him to look upon him fondly.

[Serenity Now]

Do you just post crap and hope someone believes it?

What's not factual?

Did Iran NOT release the hostages THE DAY that Reagan was inaugurated?
Did Reagan's US NOT illegally sell arms to Iran?
Have the right wing NOT been critical of Obama on trying to work with Iran?

[Serenity Now]

Carter was a weak, angst-ridden hand wringer. You'd expect those like him to look upon him fondly.

You missed this part: "The stubbornness and sense of moral purpose that disabled Carter during his presidency"

[Turd_Ferguson]

Carter also called a gutsy raid to go rescue the hostages that failed. I still get a kick that the hostages were released the day of the inauguration by the guys we ended up selling arms illegally to. I mean, what are the odds?

No, you don't get a kick out of it. It pisses you off and makes you wring your hands, but I'm sure you can tell us what the odds were...right?

[olevetonahill]

What's not factual?

Did Iran NOT release the hostages THE DAY that Reagan was inaugurated?
Did Reagan's US NOT illegally sell arms to Iran?
Have the right wing NOT been critical of Obama on trying to work with Iran?

Nice edit, Glad I quoted you LOL

Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
I beg your pardon, "erroneous" is inaccurate. The numbers about job creation don't lie and I put a link up to indicate such. The other two issues are public information that is a "known/known".

I added the 52 hostages released on my own. It's one of my favorite little asbestos-y things. You guys don't talk about it parties. You know, that 52 hostages were released by the guys that
we bought weapons from illegally just a few years later.

Ya see what ya said there?
The Dune coons Released the Hostages cause Ronnie was gonna send in the Boots to kick their asses , If Peanut farmer had won reelection The Embassy staff would Still be prisoners there!

[Serenity Now]

Nice edit, Glad I quoted you LOL

Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post
I beg your pardon, "erroneous" is inaccurate. The numbers about job creation don't lie and I put a link up to indicate such. The other two issues are public information that is a "known/known".

I added the 52 hostages released on my own. It's one of my favorite little asbestos-y things. You guys don't talk about it parties. You know, that 52 hostages were released by the guys that.

Ya see what ya said there?
The Dune coons Released the Hostages cause Ronnie was gonna send in the Boots to kick their asses , If Peanut farmer had won reelection The Embassy staff would Still be prisoners there!

I edited as soon as I saw it because it was wrong. That's why we have the edit function. It appears that you don't use it much to correct errors.

That's funny that you think that's the reason they they were released. Keep telling yourself that. I could agree with you IF we didn't sell those same TERRORISTS weapons just a few short years later.

Regardless, even if your fairy tale is true, then why are we wanting to crucify the current administration for publicly negotiating with the same outfit?

[Curly Bill]

You missed this part: "The stubbornness and sense of moral purpose that disabled Carter during his presidency"

I was very young, but I remember the malaise well. You can call it whatever makes your angst-ridden leg tingle.

[olevetonahill]

I edited as soon as I saw it because it was wrong. That's why we have the edit function. It appears that you don't use it much to correct errors.

That's funny that you think that's the reason they they were released. Keep telling yourself that. I could agree with you IF we didn't sell those same TERRORISTS weapons just a few short years later.

Regardless, even if your fairy tale is true, then why are we wanting to crucify the current administration for publicly negotiating with the same outfit?

http://blog.boostability.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Haha-LOL.jpg

[champions77]

I am not a Reagan hater. I just don't light a candle each morning at sunrise to his picture like some of you guys. And, amnesty/iran/israel/gun control would sink him in today's GOP. He'll he'd be a Democrat.

Carter also called a gutsy raid to go rescue the hostages that failed. I still get a kick that the hostages were released the day of the inauguration by the guys we ended up selling arms illegally to. I mean, what are the odds?

Carter has done the most positives with his life AFTER his service than anyone else. He's much like Tom Coburn to me, even if you don't agree with him you have to respect him. He eradicated the guinea worm.

This quote from the link below says a lot about his failures as a President and his successes as a leader afterwards.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/carter-guinea-worm/

NO Reagan would not be a Democrat. If he would be a Democrat today, then the left would not spend every waking hour demonizing him. Reagan, unlike your hero today, recognized that with a Democrat Congress, he would have to give some to gain some. That's what leaders do, they compromise on one thing to get another approved. So now 26 years after he has left office, you try and paint him as a moderate, or even a liberal? Amnesty only came about as Congress promised to build a wall on the border. Go back and hear his speeches about how awful an overbearing, too powerful federal government is to freedom and democracy. How faith played such an important role in the formation of our Republic.

Jimmy has done the most? So you consider his friendship with Venezuela Socialist dictator Hugo Chavez a good thing? He went down there to legitimize a rigged election. In turn Jimmy's "The Carter Foundation" received a donation from Chavez. He has paraded around the world, trying desperately to reinvent his failed Presidency. He has hobnobbed with terrorists like Hamas, while being highly critical of Israel.

Having stated the above, Carter meant well during his Presidency, unlike this radical leftist we have today. He was just incompetent.

[Serenity Now]

NO Reagan would not be a Democrat. If he would be a Democrat today, then the left would not spend every waking hour demonizing him. Reagan, unlike your hero today, recognized that with a Democrat Congress, he would have to give some to gain some. That's what leaders do, they compromise on one thing to get another approved. So now 26 years after he has left office, you try and paint him as a moderate, or even a liberal? Amnesty only came about as Congress promised to build a wall on the border. Go back and hear his speeches about how awful an overbearing, too powerful federal government is to freedom and democracy. How faith played such an important role in the formation of our Republic.

Jimmy has done the most? So you consider his friendship with Venezuela Socialist dictator Hugo Chavez a good thing? He went down there to legitimize a rigged election. In turn Jimmy's "The Carter Foundation" received a donation from Chavez. He has paraded around the world, trying desperately to reinvent his failed Presidency. He has hobnobbed with terrorists like Hamas, while being highly critical of Israel.

Having stated the above, Carter meant well during his Presidency, unlike this radical leftist we have today. He was just incompetent.

Who's demonizing him? I think he was a good very President, just not a saint. Gun control/Israel/Iran/amnesty. Just sayin'. He'd be at the Fox kiddie debate.

Carter's involvement with habitat for humanity and the guinea worm eradication are impressive. I've not said that I think Carter was some awesome President, I just don't think he was as bad as he gets treated.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Oh, boy. Someone who didn't live through the Carter years and sit in gas lines, high inflation, high unemployment, etc.

Carter was an unmitigated disaster. There is no question about that. The difference between Carter leaving office and Reagan leaving office was night and day. Amazing that Reagan was able to take what Carter had screwed up and turn it around, both at home and abroad.

Now...

...compare that to Obama. In his two terms he hasn't done half the job Reagan did in fixing the problems of the country...or, in the world. I'd say, he hasn't done 1/10th the job Reagan did.

The people who try to sunshine pump Carter...pathetic. Sorry, you'll have to wait until everyone who lived under that as*sclown's four years to die before you can rewrite the history there.

[champions77]

Who's demonizing him? I think he was a good very President, just not a saint. Gun control/Israel/Iran/amnesty. Just sayin'. He'd be at the Fox kiddie debate.

Carter's involvement with habitat for humanity and the guinea worm eradication are impressive. I've not said that I think Carter was some awesome President, I just don't think he was as bad as he gets treated.

I said the "left" demonizes him. Are you the LEFT?

[Serenity Now]

I said the "left" demonizes him. Are you the LEFT?

According to a few here I'm left of Bernie.

[olevetonahill]

According to a few here I'm left of Bernie.

Dont know if yer left or Left off, Do know you're an idiot tho.

[Serenity Now]

What's not factual?

Did Iran NOT release the hostages THE DAY that Reagan was inaugurated?
Did Reagan's US NOT illegally sell arms to Iran?
Have the right wing NOT been critical of Obama on trying to work with Iran?

Crickets chirping...

[TAFBSooner]

Who's demonizing him? I think he was a good very President, just not a saint. Gun control/Israel/Iran/amnesty. Just sayin'. He'd be at the Fox kiddie debate.

Carter's involvement with habitat for humanity and the guinea worm eradication are impressive. I've not said that I think Carter was some awesome President, I just don't think he was as bad as he gets treated.

Actually it's liberals who invented the "St Ronnie" appellation, to poke fun at how Republicans idolize him. How much are we exaggerating (www.ronaldreaganlegacyproject.org/about)?

Carter has been an amazing force for good in his post-POTUS career, even if you can nitpick enough to find a complaint or two.

[TAFBSooner]

The Dune coons Released the Hostages cause Ronnie was gonna send in the Boots to kick their asses , If Peanut farmer had won reelection The Embassy staff would Still be prisoners there!

I was worried there for a little bit, because I know you're NOT stupid. Took about 14.7 seconds to remember, "Stirrin' the Pot."

[TAFBSooner]

What's not factual?

Did Iran NOT release the hostages THE DAY that Reagan was inaugurated?
Did Reagan's US NOT illegally sell arms to Iran?
Have the right wing NOT been critical of Obama on trying to work with Iran?

"Crap" isn't about the accuracy of what you post.

"Crap" is questioning the hagiography of the other team, or its opposite when applied to the liberal team.

[Serenity Now]

Actually it's liberals who invented the "St Ronnie" appellation, to poke fun at how Republicans idolize him. How much are we exaggerating (www.ronaldreaganlegacyproject.org/about)?

Carter has been an amazing force for good in his post-POTUS career, even if you can nitpick enough to find a complaint or two.

LOL

[olevetonahill]

I was worried there for a little bit, because I know you're NOT stupid. Took about 14.7 seconds to remember, "Stirrin' the Pot."

:watermelon:

[SicEmBaylor]

I haven't read this thread but is this a serious question?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I haven't read this thread but is this a serious question?note OP is Serenity!!!

[champions77]

Actually it's liberals who invented the "St Ronnie" appellation, to poke fun at how Republicans idolize him. How much are we exaggerating (www.ronaldreaganlegacyproject.org/about)?

Carter has been an amazing force for good in his post-POTUS career, even if you can nitpick enough to find a complaint or two.

Nitpick? Befriending a dictator that has turned a democracy into a communist regime, and they were buddies? My gosh, you lefties do have a soft spot for socialist. Why none of us should be surprised when you endorse ole Bernie, the Socialist, all the while Serenity tries in vain to convince the world that it is the GOP that has moved to the radical fringes of the right. Yep, that's why we've elected how many Rhinos for President the last how many elections? The last GOP Presidential candidate was elected as governor of Massachusetts, another bastion of conservatism.
Of the 17 Repubs running for President, how many are Rhinos 13, 14, 15?
Give it up Serenity. Your assertion is based on fantasy, not reality. You're better than that.

[olevetonahill]

note OP is Serenity!!!

Yup. He's trolling

[TAFBSooner]

Nitpick? Befriending a dictator that has turned a democracy into a communist regime, and they were buddies? My gosh, you lefties do have a soft spot for socialist. Why none of us should be surprised when you endorse ole Bernie, the Socialist, all the while Serenity tries in vain to convince the world that it is the GOP that has moved to the radical fringes of the right. Yep, that's why we've elected how many Rhinos for President the last how many elections? The last GOP Presidential candidate was elected as governor of Massachusetts, another bastion of conservatism.
Of the 17 Repubs running for President, how many are Rhinos 13, 14, 15?
Give it up Serenity. Your assertion is based on fantasy, not reality. You're better than that.

So what's your story of Carter "befriending" Chavez? Bonus points if your answer doesn't include the words "Glenn" or "Beck."

Meanwhile, if you assert that shaking hands is a sign of invoking friendship, and as such is kryptonite for a politician if he or she does so with a Communist:

https://www.google.com/search?q=reagan+and+gorbachev+shaking+hands&biw=914&bih=559&tbm=isch&imgil=9pqjiidarfresM%253A%253BKJDACNksdZ1FKM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.reagan.utexas.edu%2525 2Farchives%25252Fphotographs%25252Fadam_gorby.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=9pqjiidarfresM%253A%252CKJDACNksdZ1FKM%252C_&usg=__XsKNxmJXJpASaScaymv560NjFuc%3D&ved=0CCcQyjdqFQoTCMe6nsG7s8cCFQUPkgod4jEAHw&ei=upTTVcf1EYWeyATi44D4AQ#imgrc=9pqjiidarfresM%3A&usg=__XsKNxmJXJpASaScaymv560NjFuc%3D

Oh By the Way, Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, not one of those guys who is going to nationalize Chesapeake, Devon, and Ted's Café Escondido.

[Serenity Now]

Nitpick? Befriending a dictator that has turned a democracy into a communist regime, and they were buddies? My gosh, you lefties do have a soft spot for socialist. Why none of us should be surprised when you endorse ole Bernie, the Socialist, all the while Serenity tries in vain to convince the world that it is the GOP that has moved to the radical fringes of the right. Yep, that's why we've elected how many Rhinos for President the last how many elections? The last GOP Presidential candidate was elected as governor of Massachusetts, another bastion of conservatism.
Of the 17 Repubs running for President, how many are Rhinos 13, 14, 15?
Give it up Serenity. Your assertion is based on fantasy, not reality. You're better than that.

So Reagan didn't support gun control? Reagan didn't amnesty 3,000,000? Reagan didn't illegally sell guns to Iran? Reagan didn't average fewer jobs created per month than Carter?

[olevetonahill]

So Reagan didn't support gun control? Reagan didn't amnesty 3,000,000? Reagan didn't illegally sell guns to Iran? Reagan didn't average fewer jobs created per month than Carter?

Heres his Gun control support

[In a 1991 speech, Reagan said]: "I'm a member of the NRA. And my position on the right to bear arms is well known. But I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay. It's just plain common sense that there be a waiting period [7 days] to allow local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on those who wish to buy a handgun."

The Brady bill was opposed by the current President, George H.W. Bush. "I don't think it would be proper for me or any other ex-president to stand and tell an acting president what he should or shouldn't do," Reagan said. But then he added: "I happen to believe in the Brady Bill because we have the same thing in California right now."

He was asked why he had opposed all gun-control measures while he was President. He shook his head. "I was against a lot of the ridiculous things that were proposed with regard to gun control.

[REDREX]

So Reagan didn't support gun control? Reagan didn't amnesty 3,000,000? Reagan didn't illegally sell guns to Iran? Reagan didn't average fewer jobs created per month than Carter?---So you think Carter was better than Reagan---That is a very small club

[Serenity Now]

---So you think Carter was better than Reagan---That is a very small club
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Reagan isn't right enough for today's right. He would be in the kiddie table debate on fox. I'm also saying that carter wasn't as bad as people think. I think Reagan was the right guy at the right time.

[champions77]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Reagan isn't right enough for today's right. He would be in the kiddie table debate on fox. I'm also saying that carter wasn't as bad as people think. I think Reagan was the right guy at the right time.

You keep regurgitating the same old baloney. You keep acting like the last four or five Repubs to run for President were some wide eyed conservatives, and nothing could be further from the truth. Reagan was a great communicator. That's how you get millions of dems to become Reagan supporters, i.e. Reagan Democrats. Again, he went along with some things in order to pass through others. He was a beloved President who did some things he thought were right at that particular time. To infer that he would be rejected today, because he was not far enough to the right, is nonsense.

[REDREX]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Reagan isn't right enough for today's right. He would be in the kiddie table debate on fox. I'm also saying that carter wasn't as bad as people think. I think Reagan was the right guy at the right time.---That's your opinion

[Serenity Now]

I think I'm fairly consistent. Reagan had a few key things that would keep him from being accepted by the "right". Reagan Democrats would certainly still support him. I'm sure I'd be a Reagan Democrat. I like the guy. His biggest negative to me is his role in the McCarthy era in Hollywood.

Vet, here's some more details with regard to Reagan and gun "control". He passed gun control legislation in California in 1967 outlawing open carry. He jointly signed a letter with Presidents Ford and Carter in 1981 supporting an assault weapons ban. In 1986 he passed a law that was pro-gun on the face of it but it also disallowed the private sale/ownership of some machine guns and fully automatic rifles (I'll let you infer how the NRA would interpret that one today). "In his later years" he supported the Brady Bill. Reagan believed in responsible gun ownership for self protection and hunting. In this day and age he'd not have the support of the NRA for any of this.

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. 3.2 million amnestied. That wouldn't fly today - especially with Okie.

Iran-Contra.....Hostages [......insert scandal here......]

I originally saw the difference in the job growth numbers and chuckled. I knew that you guys would appreciate it. We're three pages in and no one has disputed those numbers yet. Clinton, Carter, etc. all did better than Reagan.

You guys simply ignore the issues that I bring up and then proceed to call me an idealogue (that's a big word for vet but that's what he means). Here's an example of how you could actually respond: His job numbers were poor because he cut public sector employment and, to quote H.I. McDonough, times were hard "with that sumbitch Reagan in the White House". He also was dealing with a massive interest rate boondoggle left to him by Carter. I'm sure there's a Cato link highlighting this. He was softer on gun control because the NRA wasn't as fanatical at that time. And, he got shot. So, there's that.

[REDREX]

Help us Jimmy help us ---- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyybS-Vh2Dg

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You keep regurgitating the same old baloney. You keep acting like the last four or five Repubs to run for President were some wide eyed conservatives, and nothing could be further from the truth. Reagan was a great communicator. That's how you get millions of dems to become Reagan supporters, i.e. Reagan Democrats. Again, he went along with some things in order to pass through others. He was a beloved President who did some things he thought were right at that particular time. To infer that he would be rejected today, because he was not far enough to the right, is nonsense.Serenity is a dedicated true believer Leftist. He wears his politics like a religious zealot.

[SoonerorLater]

Oh By the Way, Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, not one of those guys who is going to nationalize Chesapeake, Devon, and Ted's Café Escondido.

How can there be true Democratic Socialism?

[Serenity Now]

Serenity is a dedicated true believer Leftist. He wears his politics like a religious zealot.

Yep. Voted for GHWB, GHWB, Perot, don't remember, W., and the O.

[BigTip]

I told anybody that would listen before the election that he would turn out to be our worst president. A fine man, but would be a bad president.

[SicEmBaylor]

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11880537_10207263069434003_8999100428211792243_n.j pg?oh=39897581cf980ab54f0dca4cb7c7395a&oe=563BD4A7

/debate

[Serenity Now]

Serenity is a dedicated true believer Leftist. He wears his politics like a religious zealot.

Says the guy who is THE MOST adamant that you should vote "R" regardless of who's running. Well played.

[TAFBSooner]

Serenity is a dedicated true believer Leftist. He wears his politics like a religious zealot.

Guy's a squish. He admitted voting for Reagan for cryssake! [/snark]

[Tear Down This Wall]

Dear Dr. Stupid,
Ronald Reagan was 30 years old when WWII began. He was out of college, was married with a wife and kid, and already had a career established.

Reagan had voluntarily enlisted in the Army Reserves in 1937...well before WWII, however. When WWII broke out, it wasn't married men in their 30s that the army was sending overseas, was it? No.

The military had Reagan do things during the war based on his publicly recognizable figure. So, quit insinuating that Reagan somehow "dodged" military service. He did no such thing. He was already in the reserves when WWII broke, and he did what the military asked of him.

Quit being a f*cking jerk about Reagan. Say you disagree with him about this or that policy. But, cut out the outright lies about what he did during WWII. You don't have a f*cking clue...or, at least, the source you copied and pasted from doesn't have a f*cking clue.

[TAFBSooner]

How can there be true Democratic Socialism?

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121680/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialist-not-just-socialist

[Serenity Now]

Dear Dr. Stupid,
Ronald Reagan was 30 years old when WWII began. He was out of college, was married with a wife and kid, and already had a career established.

Reagan had voluntarily enlisted in the Army Reserves in 1937...well before WWII, however. When WWII broke out, it wasn't married men in their 30s that the army was sending overseas, was it? No.

The military had Reagan do things during the war based on his publicly recognizable figure. So, quit insinuating that Reagan somehow "dodged" military service. He did no such thing. He was already in the reserves when WWII broke, and he did what the military asked of him.

Quit being a f*cking jerk about Reagan. Say you disagree with him about this or that policy. But, cut out the outright lies about what he did during WWII. You don't have a f*cking clue...or, at least, the source you copied and pasted from doesn't have a f*cking clue.

Possibly. You make good points. My dad was the same way when Vietnam rolled around without the kids. His older brother got him in the National Guard at 15 in the late 1950's. I'm no Reagan hater. Right guy, right time in my mind. And, my dad (Repub) and my mom (Dem) both loved the guy as well.

But, why have not one of you Reagan lovers touched ONE POST on his Iran dealings. It's like it's asbestos and you're walling around it. Vet tried but I don't see him as a Reagan worshiper.

[Serenity Now]

Dear Dr. Stupid,
I'm no doctor.

[TAFBSooner]

Dear Dr. Stupid,
Ronald Reagan was 30 years old when WWII began. He was out of college, was married with a wife and kid, and already had a career established.

Reagan had voluntarily enlisted in the Army Reserves in 1937...well before WWII, however. When WWII broke out, it wasn't married men in their 30s that the army was sending overseas, was it? No.

Well, yes (https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Conscription_in_the_United_States).


The military had Reagan do things during the war based on his publicly recognizable figure. So, quit insinuating that Reagan somehow "dodged" military service. He did no such thing. He was already in the reserves when WWII broke, and he did what the military asked of him.

Quit being a f*cking jerk about Reagan. Say you disagree with him about this or that policy. But, cut out the outright lies about what he did during WWII. You don't have a f*cking clue...or, at least, the source you copied and pasted from doesn't have a f*cking clue.

He served, and made significant contributions to the war effort. Today he would risk being called a fobbit, but the military needs fobbits, too.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Possibly. You make good points. My dad was the same way when Vietnam rolled around without the kids. His older brother got him in the National Guard at 15 in the late 1950's. I'm no Reagan hater. Right guy, right time in my mind. And, my dad (Repub) and my mom (Dem) both loved the guy as well.

But, why have not one of you Reagan lovers touched ONE POST on his Iran dealings. It's like it's asbestos and you're walling around it. Vet tried but I don't see him as a Reagan worshiper.

Why touch it? He admitted he was wrong. And, he did so on live television.

Find me another president who has admitted they were wrong. And, further, did so on live television and apologized for it. Take your pick: Either of the Bushes, Clinton, Obama? Carter? Nixon? Johnson? Anyone else?

No one else.

[TAFBSooner]

Why touch it? He admitted he was wrong. And, he did so on live television.

Find me another president who has admitted they were wrong. And, further, did so on live television and apologized for it. Take your pick: Either of the Bushes, Clinton, Obama? Carter? Nixon? Johnson? Anyone else?

No one else.

Point. Everyone else in government (not just at the top) acts like they'd be electrocuted if they apologized or admitted they were wrong.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Point. Everyone else in government (not just at the top) acts like they'd be electrocuted if they apologized or admitted they were wrong.

Which is why Reagan is the standard. Like most humans, he admitted to being human. All of these other presidents fear apology. As do the majority of politicians.

It's why the point at which we find ourselves as a nation sickens most people. Hillary, who will be the Democratic nominee and next president, can never admit a wrong. She does everything in her control to hide and deflect.

But, the voting public today is different than it was 30-40 years ago.

[champions77]

I think I'm fairly consistent. Reagan had a few key things that would keep him from being accepted by the "right". Reagan Democrats would certainly still support him. I'm sure I'd be a Reagan Democrat. I like the guy. His biggest negative to me is his role in the McCarthy era in Hollywood.

Vet, here's some more details with regard to Reagan and gun "control". He passed gun control legislation in California in 1967 outlawing open carry. He jointly signed a letter with Presidents Ford and Carter in 1981 supporting an assault weapons ban. In 1986 he passed a law that was pro-gun on the face of it but it also disallowed the private sale/ownership of some machine guns and fully automatic rifles (I'll let you infer how the NRA would interpret that one today). "In his later years" he supported the Brady Bill. Reagan believed in responsible gun ownership for self protection and hunting. In this day and age he'd not have the support of the NRA for any of this.

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. 3.2 million amnestied. That wouldn't fly today - especially with Okie.

Iran-Contra.....Hostages [......insert scandal here......]

I originally saw the difference in the job growth numbers and chuckled. I knew that you guys would appreciate it. We're three pages in and no one has disputed those numbers yet. Clinton, Carter, etc. all did better than Reagan.

You guys simply ignore the issues that I bring up and then proceed to call me an idealogue (that's a big word for vet but that's what he means). Here's an example of how you could actually respond: His job numbers were poor because he cut public sector employment and, to quote H.I. McDonough, times were hard "with that sumbitch Reagan in the White House". He also was dealing with a massive interest rate boondoggle left to him by Carter. I'm sure there's a Cato link highlighting this. He was softer on gun control because the NRA wasn't as fanatical at that time. And, he got shot. So, there's that.

Carter Presidency was the first since the Civil War to have double digit; 1) Inflation 2) Unemployment rates. Carter had used the Misery Index successfully against Gerald Ford in the 1976 Presidential election. Reagan used it successfully against Jimmy Carter in the 1980 Presidential election.
GDP higher during Reagan Presidency. I don't know where you got your stats Serenity, but your assertion that Carter had more job growth during Reagan, is terribly flawed, even at first glance. Some will say that if you do not have a strong economy for building new homes, then that will affect a wide range of other industries and the economic indicators. With Carter having a prolonged period of 20% interest rates, I know that affected the Nation's homebuilding industry in a big way. Not many folks want to buy a new home at 18-20% interest rate. Tell me how Carter could have a high unemployment rate but have more job growth than Reagan? The is a reason Reagan beat Carter, an incumbent President, by a large margin...the economy was terrible under Carter.

Go look up a graph of GDP and get back to me and tell me that Carter had more job growth.

Misery index - era by U.S president

Index = Unemployment rate + Inflation rate

Harry Truman 1948–1952 7.88 3.45 – Dec 1952 13.63 – Jan 1948 13.63 3.45 -10.18
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953–1960 9.26 2.97 – Jul 1953 10.98 – Apr 1958 3.28 9.96 +4.68
John F. Kennedy 1961–1962 7.14 6.40 – Jul 1962 8.38 – Jul 1961 8.31 6.82 -1.49
Lyndon B. Johnson 1963–1968 6.77 5.70 – Nov 1965 8.19 – Jul 1968 7.02 8.12 +1.10
Richard Nixon 1969–1974 10.57 7.80 – Jan 1969 17.01 – Jul 1974 7.80 17.01 +9.21
Gerald Ford 1974–1976 16.00 12.66 – Dec 1976 19.90 – Jan 1975 16.36 12.66 -3.70
Jimmy Carter 1977–1980 16.26 12.60 – Apr 1978 21.98 – Jun 1980 12.72 19.72 +7.00
Ronald Reagan 1981–1988 12.19 7.70 – Dec 1986 19.33 – Jan 1981 19.33 9.72 -9.61
George H. W. Bush 1989–1992 10.68 9.64 – Sep 1989 14.47 – Nov 1990 10.07 10.30 +0.23
Bill Clinton 1993–2000 7.80 5.74 – Apr 1998 10.56 – Jan 1993 10.56 7.29 -3.27
George W. Bush 2001–2008 8.11 5.71 – Oct 2006 11.47 – Aug 2008 7.93 7.39 -0.54
Barack Obama 2009–September 2014
Incomplete data 10.26 7.30 – July 2009



[2]

[Serenity Now]

Carter Presidency was the first since the Civil War to have double digit; 1) Inflation 2) Unemployment rates. Carter had used the Misery Index successfully against Gerald Ford in the 1976 Presidential election. Reagan used it successfully against Jimmy Carter in the 1980 Presidential election.
GDP higher during Reagan Presidency. I don't know where you got your stats Serenity, but your assertion that Carter had more job growth during Reagan, is terribly flawed, even at first glance. Some will say that if you do not have a strong economy for building new homes, then that will affect a wide range of other industries and the economic indicators. With Carter having a prolonged period of 20% interest rates, I know that affected the Nation's homebuilding industry in a big way. Not many folks want to buy a new home at 18-20% interest rate. Tell me how Carter could have a high unemployment rate but have more job growth than Reagan? The is a reason Reagan beat Carter, an incumbent President, by a large margin...the economy was terrible under Carter.

Go look up a graph of GDP and get back to me and tell me that Carter had more job growth.

Misery index - era by U.S president

Index = Unemployment rate + Inflation rate

Harry Truman 1948–1952 7.88 3.45 – Dec 1952 13.63 – Jan 1948 13.63 3.45 -10.18
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953–1960 9.26 2.97 – Jul 1953 10.98 – Apr 1958 3.28 9.96 +4.68
John F. Kennedy 1961–1962 7.14 6.40 – Jul 1962 8.38 – Jul 1961 8.31 6.82 -1.49
Lyndon B. Johnson 1963–1968 6.77 5.70 – Nov 1965 8.19 – Jul 1968 7.02 8.12 +1.10
Richard Nixon 1969–1974 10.57 7.80 – Jan 1969 17.01 – Jul 1974 7.80 17.01 +9.21
Gerald Ford 1974–1976 16.00 12.66 – Dec 1976 19.90 – Jan 1975 16.36 12.66 -3.70
Jimmy Carter 1977–1980 16.26 12.60 – Apr 1978 21.98 – Jun 1980 12.72 19.72 +7.00
Ronald Reagan 1981–1988 12.19 7.70 – Dec 1986 19.33 – Jan 1981 19.33 9.72 -9.61
George H. W. Bush 1989–1992 10.68 9.64 – Sep 1989 14.47 – Nov 1990 10.07 10.30 +0.23
Bill Clinton 1993–2000 7.80 5.74 – Apr 1998 10.56 – Jan 1993 10.56 7.29 -3.27
George W. Bush 2001–2008 8.11 5.71 – Oct 2006 11.47 – Aug 2008 7.93 7.39 -0.54
Barack Obama 2009–September 2014
Incomplete data 10.26 7.30 – July 2009



[2]

Well done. That's what I'm talking about, not "you're stupid".

This link is pretty solid. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/12/05/in-ranking-presidents-by-job-creation-obama-still-lags/

I think the argument is somewhat moot. Reagan had a recession to deal with. If I were debating the case I'd say that the job losses in the first term were because of Carter and he had to dig out of that hole/"malaise". No one used that logic. Anyway, I give him a pass on that.

I just thought the facts v. the perception were interesting and would encourage "discussion". I harbor no claim that Carter was some great President. I just think he was better than the common perception. Some would call it trolling. I think it's something better to do with discussions than which of the 16 GOP nominees tried to out-Trump the other 15 this week. We've had a little discussion and we've had some pissing match materials. I still think that Reagan's "plank" would be too far left today. I think if Reagan were around today he'd be further toward John Birch as he'd have migrated. Both parties have polarized more, ironically, just as our poles are losing some of their polarity.....zing. :|

[Serenity Now]

Plus, this gives Curly enough material to push me to -3,000,000 and spell out any number of insults as he does it. He's so cute....

[champions77]

Well done. That's what I'm talking about, not "you're stupid".

This link is pretty solid. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/12/05/in-ranking-presidents-by-job-creation-obama-still-lags/

I think the argument is somewhat moot. Reagan had a recession to deal with. If I were debating the case I'd say that the job losses in the first term were because of Carter and he had to dig out of that hole/"malaise". No one used that logic. Anyway, I give him a pass on that.

I just thought the facts v. the perception were interesting and would encourage "discussion". I harbor no claim that Carter was some great President. I just think he was better than the common perception. Some would call it trolling. I think it's something better to do with discussions than which of the 16 GOP nominees tried to out-Trump the other 15 this week. We've had a little discussion and we've had some pissing match materials. I still think that Reagan's "plank" would be too far left today. I think if Reagan were around today he'd be further toward John Birch as he'd have migrated. Both parties have polarized more, ironically, just as our poles are losing some of their polarity.....zing. :|

And we can continue to disagree on your assertion that Reagan would be too "liberal". Again, Reagan's message was a conservative one. Sure legislation he was not real fond of he signed off on, but other things he really wanted got passed too, he compromised. Look at how BHO handled Healthcare. He did so in an "in your face" manner, "John, elections have consequences" If he had engaged the GOP in a meaningful way, incorporated some of their ideas, how much better would the legislation be today, and how many Repubs would be out there defending it?

I mean look at Trump, he's no Conservative, but he is getting conservative support because he is saying what is on his mind, not the typical politician that we are all loathing these days. He is different, and refreshing, whether or not you agree with everything he says.

Reagan was a great communicator. He was a uniter, not a divider like BHO. Does anyone dispute that?

[Serenity Now]

And we can continue to disagree on your assertion that Reagan would be too "liberal". Again, Reagan's message was a conservative one. Sure legislation he was not real fond of he signed off on, but other things he really wanted got passed too, he compromised. Look at how BHO handled Healthcare. He did so in an "in your face" manner, "John, elections have consequences" If he had engaged the GOP in a meaningful way, incorporated some of their ideas, how much better would the legislation be today, and how many Repubs would be out there defending it?

I mean look at Trump, he's no Conservative, but he is getting conservative support because he is saying what is on his mind, not the typical politician that we are all loathing these days. He is different, and refreshing, whether or not you agree with everything he says.

Reagan was a great communicator. He was a uniter, not a divider like BHO. Does anyone dispute that?

I agree that Reagan was a great communicator. My liberal mom loved him. We can agree there.

Obama had that quote. Bush called the election an "accountability moment". Not much different. We can disagree but there was not much of a meaningful way to engage the GOP.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Plus, this gives Curly enough material to push me to -3,000,000 and spell out any number of insults as he does it. He's so cute....

As you will attest, I have never negspekd you...and, I can't recall the last time I negspekd anyone.

But, look...differing opinion is fine. However, there is no point in this type of argument, Carter versus Reagan. Whether you like one or the other better, even the most liberal historians have a difficult time digging out many positives from Carter's four years.

Say what you like about Reagan, but the country loved him. He came within about 6,000 votes of carrying all 50 states during the 1984 election. As it was, he carried 49. That will never happen again in our lifetime.

America was a fantastic place to live in the 1980s. Those on the fringes can disagree - AIDS activists and the like. But, the vast majority of people were happy in the 80s.

There is a gigantic contrast in the national conscience now as compared to then. Part of the deal is, back then, we had a common enemy - communism - to fight.

Now, with no common enemy, the nation's "groups" turn upon themselves in a effort to seize political - and, I'd say, legal - control of the country. It is sad and disheartening to watch it happen.

I miss the very essence of the 80s. And, yes, we can all laugh about this song. But, after the terrible divide caused by the Nixon/Ford/Carter/Vietnam/Watergate/Iran Hostage/Energy Crisis 1970s (and that decade following on the heels of the upheaval of the 1960s), the mood of Americans in the 1980s, by and large, turned softer toward one another and began healing itself. I am proud to have grown up during those years (junior high - college) and miss the mood of that era:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmALA8miQY8

We are, today, battered and torn by special interest groups who seek to divide us up into numbers for the sake of marketing whatever brand of crap they are selling.

In short, we are no longer seeking to live "side-by-side in perfect harmony" but, instead, to create demons, attach them to certain groups, and demand political and legal redress from them. It is as despicable as it is horrible.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Says the guy who is THE MOST adamant that you should vote "R" regardless of who's running. Well played.This mischaracterization(pretending you don't understand why one must vote R)
had better be intentional. Otherwise, you might deserve a stu*id card.

[hawaii 5-0]

I liked that Reagan was willing to compromise with the Dems in order to pass legislation.

None of that 'my way or I'll shut down the government' crap.

He was also willing to raise taxes when needed. What ? 12 times ?

He was a team player.


5-0

[Tear Down This Wall]

I liked that Reagan was willing to compromise with the Dems in order to pass legislation.

None of that 'my way or I'll shut down the government' crap.

He was also willing to raise taxes when needed. What ? 12 times ?

He was a team player.


5-0

With Tip O'Neill.

I think the one thing that technology has done that has killed the political process is that it has allowed special interest groups to chop us into tiny factions fighting one another.

So, we are at the point now where everyone digs in their heels and won't give an inch.

[SoonerorLater]

Point. Everyone else in government (not just at the top) acts like they'd be electrocuted if they apologized or admitted they were wrong.

Because it's like handing your opponents a loaded weapon.

[Serenity Now]

This mischaracterization(pretending you don't understand why one must vote R)
had better be intentional. Otherwise, you might deserve a stu*id card.

Mischaracterization. That's what you've said.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
This mischaracterization(pretending you don't understand why one must vote R)
had better be intentional. Otherwise, you might deserve a stu*id card.
Mischaracterization. That's what you've said.still no capiche?

[rock on sooner]

I liked that Reagan was willing to compromise with the Dems in order to pass legislation.

None of that 'my way or I'll shut down the government' crap.

He was also willing to raise taxes when needed. What ? 12 times ?

He was a team player.


5-0

Nope, 18 times....

[TVKaleen]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Reagan isn't right enough for today's right. He would be in the kiddie table debate on fox. I'm also saying that carter wasn't as bad as people think. I think Reagan was the right guy at the right time.

Ah bull****. Reagan would be at the major debate. His policies would mirror a lot of John Kasich's. He's forty times the speaker Kasich is. His sheer charisma would have gotten him on the main stage and he would've dominated it.

[Serenity Now]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
This mischaracterization(pretending you don't understand why one must vote R)
had better be intentional. Otherwise, you might deserve a stu*id card.still no capiche?

I was reading through the first few pages of the 7 page Hillary sucks thread. I noticed that 3-5 people were pointing out the irony of you, of all people, being critical of someone voting for the letter behind their name. I guess my point is that most of us here don't "capiche" why you can't see your dissonance on the issue. You hammer away at Sic'em or anyone else for throwing their vote away and not voting for the GOP nominee yet are critical of anyone who votes D. Hell, there are a **** ton of "green" party people who threw their vote away and led to Bush getting elected in 2000.

[champions77]

I agree that Reagan was a great communicator. My liberal mom loved him. We can agree there.

Obama had that quote. Bush called the election an "accountability moment". Not much different. We can disagree but there was not much of a meaningful way to engage the GOP.

Well at least you try. BHO has used "excuses" from the git go in his Presidency. Dad used to say excuses were for losers. I did not see much effort on the part of Obama to engage the Republicans. Of Obama's many shortcomings, that is one of his biggest. It's called leadership. Heck even Dems complain about him not engaging them. He wants to more of a King, sitting back and waiting for Congress to engage HIM.