How many of the boards Libs Really want Hilliary as Pres.?

[olevetonahill]

I asked this in another thread but Id really like those who want her to state Why they want her and Why they think she will do a Good job.
I promise to not give you TOO hard a time about it, Curly on the other hand I can make no promise about LOL :kiwi-fruit:

[Curly Bill]

:cheerful:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I asked this in another thread but Id really like those who want her to state Why they want her and Why they think she will do a Good job.
I promise to not give you TOO hard a time about it, Curly on the other hand I can make no promise about LOL :kiwi-fruit:They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.

[Curly Bill]

I can't give none of em a hard time on account they're too ashamed to show their faces and admit what they are! ;)

[Serenity Now]

They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.

I agree with you.

[Serenity Now]

I asked this in another thread but Id really like those who want her to state Why they want her and Why they think she will do a Good job.
I promise to not give you TOO hard a time about it, Curly on the other hand I can make no promise about LOL :kiwi-fruit:
She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car. I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left.

[SicEmBaylor]

A close friend of mine from Baylor has been a rabid and enthusiastic Hillary fan since she ran for US Senate.

[SicEmBaylor]

She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car. I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left.

Paul, Fiorina, and Cruz are more than capable of being President of the United States. The rest? Not so much.

The best thing the Democrats can/should do is to nominate Jim Webb. Jim Webb is fantastic, for a Democrat.

[Serenity Now]

Cruz? That would be like me pimping sanders. Did you see his machine gun bacon cooking ad? Much like trump's hair, That alone should disqualify him.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Were you expecting better than this, olevet? Rotsa Ruck, kemosabe!

[BoulderSooner79]

They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.

Mr. Pot calling out all those black kettles. How many posts have you made saying everyone *must* vote Republican no matter who it is or the end of the world will be upon us? At least 1000 posts. You've trashed Sic'em for sticking to his ideals if he "throws away" his vote thus helping the satanic Democrats.

As far as Hilliary is concerned, she is too embedded in the DC game and has zero charisma.

[yermom]

They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.

That is rich coming from you.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Mr. Pot calling out all those black kettles. How many posts have you made saying everyone *must* vote Republican no matter who it is or the end of the world will be upon us? At least 1000 posts. You've trashed Sic'em for sticking to his ideals if he "throws away" his vote thus helping the satanic Democrats.

As far as Hilliary is concerned, she is too embedded in the DC game and has zero charisma.I wil refrain from throwing out a name card like you libs almost always do. I know you're not dumb, but are apparently unable to grasp that I want to take care of job 1 before anything, since it is necessary. That is to keep democrats from getting elected to anything, yes even dogcatcher. GRASP THE SIMPLE MATH THAT IS AT WORK. If the perceived conservative vote is split, the sorry-as*ed democrats win again, and continue to pummel the country.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.
That is rich coming from you.stop it. Stop making no sense. Read the previous post.

[Serenity Now]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.stop it. Stop making no sense. Read the previous post.
At least you stick to your ideals. lol

[yermom]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.stop it. Stop making no sense. Read the previous post.

Okay then, tell me what it would take for you to not back the R candidate?

[BoulderSooner79]

I wil refrain from throwing out a name card like you libs almost always do. I know you're not dumb, but are apparently unable to grasp that I want to take care of job 1 before anything, since it is necessary. That is to keep democrats from getting elected to anything, yes even dogcatcher. GRASP THE SIMPLE MATH THAT IS AT WORK. If the perceived conservative vote is split, the sorry-as*ed democrats win again, and continue to pummel the country.

Can you GRASP THE SIMPLE FACT that democrats that will vote for whoever gets on the ticket are doing the EXACT SAME THING that you are advocating? I would think you would applaud their thinking as they agree with you.

[SicEmBaylor]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
They will take whichever D is the nominee. Lock the thread. Throw away the key.stop it. Stop making no sense. Read the previous post.

He's making perfect sense. His point is that nobody is a bigger cheerleader for "Vote Republican no matter what!" than you are. So bashing the Democrats for voting for a Democrat, no matter what, is rather rich.

[SoonerProphet]

No love for Kasich? I wish the press would give Webb more attention.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Okay then, tell me what it would take for you to not back the R candidate?Have a D nominee that isn't an authoritarian or totalitarian socialist/fascist. Somebody like what Cruz, Carson, Fiorina even Trump claim they want. But, you talk about unable to believe Trump is for real. It would be so out of character for a democrat to believe in the Constitution and America's laws and customs, that if one came forward claiming he/she wants those things, there would be a lot of suspicion.

[Serenity Now]

Have a D nominee that isn't an authoritarian or totalitarian socialist/fascist. Somebody like what Cruz, Carson, Fiorina even Trump claim they want. But, you talk about unable to believe Trump is for real. It would be so out of character for a democrat to believe in the Constitution and America's laws and customs, that if one came forward claiming he/she wants those things, there would be a lot of suspicion.

Because the right is solely concerned with the Constitution?

[Curly Bill]

Because the right is solely concerned with the Constitution?

At least we act like we've heard of it.

[olevetonahill]

She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car. I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left.

You Really think that Bro?

[Serenity Now]

You Really think that Bro?

No, the cat ran across my keyboard. How is what I typed anymore outlandish than any of these guys: Cruz, Trump, Huckabee, Jindal, Perry, Santorum, Carson, Graham, Bush, Christie, Walker? I could do Fiorni or Rubio. I respect them.

[SicEmBaylor]

No, the cat ran across my keyboard. How is what I typed anymore outlandish than any of these guys: Cruz, Trump, Huckabee, Jindal, Perry, Santorum, Carson, Graham, Bush, Christie, Walker? I could do Fiorni or Rubio. I respect them.

Rubio is an absolute hack. Set aside differences in principles and policy for a moment, the only Republican candidates who are their own person are Trump, Fiorina, Cruz, and Paul. I would add Carson to that list, but Carson is too much of a blank slate to know.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Rubio is an absolute hack. Set aside differences in principles and policy for a moment, the only Republican candidates who are their own person are Trump, Fiorina, Cruz, and Paul. I would add Carson to that list, but Carson is too much of a blank slate to know.Pretty much. For me Jindal is an unknown/unclear as well.

Well, I haven't seen anything scary from Walker either. His ability to win the governor election and overcome 2 or 3 atetmpts to recall him by leftists is very impressive, and he enacted reforms that helped Wisconsin improve financially. He is NOT afraid of the Left and their Media.

[olevetonahill]

She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car. I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left.
Please Tell me Why you Think this!

[olevetonahill]

She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car. I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left.

Are YOU serious ?

[Sooner in Tampa]

No, the cat ran across my keyboard. How is what I typed anymore outlandish than any of these guys: Cruz, Trump, Huckabee, Jindal, Perry, Santorum, Carson, Graham, Bush, Christie, Walker? I could do Fiorni or Rubio. I respect them.

Good lawd...I cannot fathom how ANYONE could support another Clinton in the Whitehouse...seriously! The Clintons are just one scandal after another...this is a just a list of SOME of them.


Soon after her husband became president in 1993, first lady Hillary Clinton allegedly engineered (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/05/us/memo-places-hillary-clinton-at-core-of-travel-office-case.html) the firing of seven employees of the White House travel office and the hiring of a firm with ties to the Clintons to replace them


Whitewater
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Bill and Hillary Clinton were associates of Jim and Susan McDougal in the Whitewater Development Corp., an Arkansas real estate investment firm (http://articles.latimes.com/1996-04-02/news/mn-53950_1_financial-conspiracy) that went under when McDougal's Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan was closed by federal regulators for illegal accounting. Taxpayers lost $73 million due to Guaranty. The Clintons lost an estimated $67,000 on their investment, but McDougal helped pay off Bill Clinton's campaign debts, and Hillary Clinton's law firm received an unknown sum in fees for representing a Guaranty project that also failed.



Hundreds of FBI background files on officials in previous Republican presidential administrations were improperly given in 1993 and 1994 to Craig Livingstone, the director of White House security who was a Hillary Clinton favorite. No illegal activity (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/09/AR2010030903915.html) was ever proven, and Livingstone ultimately resigned.


Vince Foster was President Clinton's deputy White House counsel and long-time friend of Hillary Clinton. He committed suicide in 1993, and his body was found in a park just across the Potomac River from the White House. Files were also allegedly removed from his White House office before investigators were able to secure (http://articles.latimes.com/1995-12-12/news/mn-13075_1_white-house) it as part of the official probe into his death.


Congressional and Justice Department investigators began issuing subpoenas in 1994 for Hillary Clinton's billing records as a partner in the Rose law firm at the center of the Whitewater scandal. She said her role was incidental, but when the records mysteriously turned up (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/06/us/elusive-papers-of-law-firm-are-found-at-white-house.html) in the White House in 1996, they showed she met repeatedly with key figures in the scandal.


More than 800 people stayed overnight (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/02/26/clinton.lincoln/) in the Lincoln bedroom of the White House during President Bill Clinton's tenure. At least $5.4 million in campaign contributions from many of those guests went into Clinton's re-election effort. Among the paying guests were movie producer Steven Spielberg, Dreamworks SKG head David Geffen and long-time Hollywood powerhouse Lew Wasserman.


President Clinton became only the second chief executive ever impeached (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/impeach122098.htm) by the House of Representatives in 1998 after being found guilty of obstructing justice and committing perjury in connection with a grand jury investigation of his sexual relationship in the White House with intern Monica Lewinsky. He remained in office, however, after the Senate failed to convict him. When the news of the Lewinsky scandal broke, Hillary famously blamed a "vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president."


Shortly before leaving the Oval Office, Bill Clinton issued a number of controversial pardons for controversial individuals represented by lawyers with ties to the administration. The most controversial was convicted tax evader (http://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-marc-rich-20130627-story.html) Marc Rich who was pardoned after his former wife made big contributions to the Clinton presidential library and to Hillary Clinton's 2000 Senate campaign.


During her unsuccessful 2008 campaign for the Democratic presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton claimed to have come under sniper fire during her arrival as first lady at an airport in Bosnia in 1996. She recanted her claim after CBS News broadcast video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4) of the arrival that demonstrated there was no sniper fire.


While serving as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013, Hillary Clinton used a private email account and a server located at her residence in Chappaqua, N.Y., to conduct official government business. In a March 10, 2015, news conference at the United Nations, she said she did this as a matter of personal "convenience" and that she deleted thousands of emails she considered personal. Federal laws and regulations require government employees to preserve personal (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/hillary-clinton-email.html?_r=0) emails that deal with official business.


After leaving the White House in 2001, Bill Clinton established a foundation in his name to raise funds for his presidential library. In the years since, the foundation — now known as the "Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation" — has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for worthy causes, with much of it coming from foreign governments, corporations and individuals. Critics claim the foundation is a tool for special interests to cultivate favorable relationships with the former and possible future president.

[Serenity Now]

Good lawd...I cannot fathom how ANYONE could support another Clinton in the Whitehouse...seriously! The Clintons are just one scandal after another...this is a just a list of SOME of them.

Any effort to argue against the Clintons that includes Vince Foster loses credibility.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Any effort to argue against the Clintons that includes Vince Foster loses credibility.


There ya go...pick out 1 argument in the 11 listed...go for what ya know.

[FaninAma]

Because the right is solely concerned with the Constitution?

GWB and the neocons wiped their rears with it but I don't think that is the definition of concern you were looking for. Although, Obama has taken up where they left off in ripping the protections of civil liberties provided by the Constitution to shreds.

[olevetonahill]

No, the cat ran across my keyboard. How is what I typed anymore outlandish than any of these guys: Cruz, Trump, Huckabee, Jindal, Perry, Santorum, Carson, Graham, Bush, Christie, Walker? I could do Fiorni or Rubio. I respect them.

See You started the attacks. I simply asked a question. I wasnt sure if you were serious or just stirrin the pot.

[Serenity Now]

What attacks are you talking about?

[okie52]

Hillary's Poll Numbers Continue Slide

Hillary Clinton’s free-falling public image poll numbers have impelled the often rigid and robotic presumed Democratic nominee to adopt a more aggressive tack, according to The Washington Post.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/hillary-clinton-campaign-polls-popularity/2015/08/10/id/669305/#ixzz3iQu5Aqmg
.

[olevetonahill]

What attacks are you talking about?

Smartass statement about yer cat.

[Serenity Now]

Smartass statement about yer cat.

I declare, you deserve a strict talking to from Lindsay Graham if that comment about a cat walking on my keyboard counts as an attack. Glib? Yes. Funny? I'll defer to someone with a modicum of a sense of humor.

[olevetonahill]

I declare, you deserve a strict talking to from Lindsay Graham if that comment about a cat walking on my keyboard counts as an attack. Glib? Yes. Funny? I'll defer to someone with a modicum of a sense of humor.

None of the above Simply Smartass. :cheerful:

[FaninAma]

She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car. I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left.

Translation: as long as they have a "D" beside their name I don't care about their integrity, ethics, honesty, capability to do the job or even their intelligence.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Translation: as long as they have a "D" beside their name I don't care about their integrity, ethics, honesty, capability to do the job or even their intelligence.They D candidate can be trusted to enact authoritarian socialism/fascism. The republicans absolutely can't be trusted to be that way, nor would a third partyer who says conservative things

[Serenity Now]

Translation: as long as they have a "D" beside their name I don't care about their integrity, ethics, honesty, capability to do the job or even their intelligence.
That's not what I said at all. I said she'll be better than the top clown that comes out of that clown car. That's my opinion. Also, aren't their more Dem candidates than Hillary, Biden and Bernie?

[okie52]

That's not what I said at all. I said she'll be better than the top clown that comes out of that clown car. That's my opinion. Also, aren't their more Dem candidates than Hillary, Biden and Bernie?

Omalley and jim webb

[Serenity Now]

Omalley and jim webb

Rhetorical. :)

[FaninAma]

That's not what I said at all. I said she'll be better than the top clown that comes out of that clown car. That's my opinion. Also, aren't their more Dem candidates than Hillary, Biden and Bernie?

That's exactly what you said and you just doubled down on that assertion. It doesn't matter to you who the GOP nominates you think an old, unethical, secretive, incompetent, greedy life-long politician would be a better candidate simply because she is a Democrat.

[Serenity Now]

This is what I said: "She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car. I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left."

When I say "She'll be a better president than whoever comes out of the dumpster fire that is the gop clown car." I'm comparing her to the GOP field that has a chance (current front runners) to win the nomination. Later I said basically all of them but Rubio and Fiornia.
When I say "I've done no digging as to who I would choose" that means O'Malley, Clinton, et al....I don't really know. I've not yet picked one to be my "one".
When I say "It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks." it means I could vote for Trump and my vote would mean just as little as a vote for Hillary or O'Malley

You don't understand what doubling down means do you?

[Serenity Now]

That's exactly what you said and you just doubled down on that assertion. It doesn't matter to you who the GOP nominates you think an old, unethical, secretive, incompetent, greedy life-long politician would be a better candidate simply because she is a Democrat.

You're smarter than this.

[Curly Bill]

You're smarter than this.

But you're not. So, why go into detailed explanations on anything for you?

[FaninAma]

You're smarter than this.

So, then please list the political principles that Hillary espouses which allow you to overlook all of her character flaws and causes you to make the claim she is better than any other GOP candidate. And after you do that you tell me without squirming that you think she is honest.

[okie52]

Omalley and jim webb

Sorry...they are so low on the radar I figured some people may really not know.:sneakiness:

[Serenity Now]

Sorry...they are so low on the radar I figured some people may really not know.:sneakiness:

True. They're polling down there with Walker and Fiornia.

[Serenity Now]

So, then please list the political principles that Hillary espouses which allow you to overlook all of her character flaws and causes you to make the claim she is better than any other GOP candidate. And after you do that you tell me without squirming that you think she is honest.

Character flaws. Not a given. Your statement makes them an assumption.

[olevetonahill]

Character flaws. Not a given. Your statement makes them an assumption.

Ok Im not aasking if you want Her over a Pub Im asking if you really want HER. or would some else be preferable to you ?

[FaninAma]

Character flaws. Not a given. Your statement makes them an assumption.

You are freaking hopeless. I thought you had higher standards than Sooner8th. Hillary could **** down your leg and tell you it was rain and you would say "Whatever you say Hill, baby!"

So you do think she is honest and trustworthy? You should be able to tell us that much since the woman has been in public life for 25 years now.

[okie52]

True. They're polling down there with Walker and Fiornia.

Actually Carly moved up to 8%. Walker is down to 7% in some polls.

Webb and O'Malley are less than 2%. More like Perry and Santorum numbers. I forgot about Chaffee. He's polling at less than 1%. He's right up there with lindsey graham.

[Curly Bill]

Lindsey Graham - there's someone that should disappear.

Maybe take McCain with him.

[Serenity Now]

Actually Carly moved up to 8%. Walker is down to 7% in some polls.

Webb and O'Malley are less than 2%. More like Perry and Santorum numbers. I forgot about Chaffee. He's polling at less than 1%. He's right up there with lindsey graham.

I was just kidding. You ought to google who's running for President. It's amazing the yahoos that have filed. I'm not talking about Jindal, Walker, etc. I'm talking about Tom, Dick and Harry that we've never heard of.

[FaninAma]

So, Serenity, is Hillary honest and trustworthy?

[Serenity Now]

So, Serenity, is Hillary honest and trustworthy?

I don't know. You don't either. Her email scandal is nothing to me. No one else has done it different until now. Benghazi is a sad thing but not some grand conspiracy. Whitewater? Vince foster? Next thing you're gonna do is mention mena drug running. Come on. She's a lifelong bureaucrat. That's the argument against.

[okie52]

I don't know. You don't either. Her email scandal is nothing to me. No one else has done it different until now. Benghazi is a sad thing but not some grand conspiracy. Whitewater? Vince foster? Next thing you're gonna do is mention mena drug running. Come on. She's a lifelong bureaucrat. That's the argument against.

So how was her having to do corkscrew landings and running off the runway under sniper fire?

[olevetonahill]

So how was her having to do corkscrew landings and running off the runway under sniper fire?

But she was Honest and sincere when she said that!

[okie52]

But she was Honest and sincere when she said that!

I know Hillary isn't a liar...that vast right wing conspiracy totally screwed bill over.

[yermom]

I'm tired of her. Better than any of the clowns put forth by the GOP lately though.

[Curly Bill]

I'm tired of her. Better than any of the clowns put forth by the GOP lately though.

And by that you mean they don't pander enough to the losers of society, and the victim wannabes like you?

[yermom]

They pander to the corporations with a side of Jesus to keep the idiot masses in line even against their best interest

[okie52]

I'm tired of her. Better than any of the clowns put forth by the GOP lately though.

Based on what tenuous positions?

[Curly Bill]

They pander to the corporations with a side of Jesus to keep the idiot masses in line even against their best interest

Oh noes! Those evil corporations, which by the way are legal in the USA.

I guess they could be like the donks and pander to those waiting for their free money, to the black population that has been a monolithic voting block for the donks for decades and just as worse off as ever, or maybe pander to the supporters of amnesty and thus illegal immigration, which is not legal!

[Curly Bill]

They pander to the corporations with a side of Jesus to keep the idiot masses in line even against their best interest

It really gripes your *ss that you don't belong to one of those disadvantaged groups so you could feel all discriminated against doesn't it? Feel more like a victim?

Do you have a "white guilt" T-shirt?

[Turd_Ferguson]

http://i.imgur.com/fOlzI99.jpg

[okie52]

I feel guilty for wanting to keep my own money...

[Curly Bill]

I feel guilty for wanting to keep my own money...

I promise ya, there's some that post on this board that think you should feel guilty about that!

[yermom]

It really gripes your *ss that you don't belong to one of those disadvantaged groups so you could feel all discriminated against doesn't it? Feel more like a victim?

Do you have a "white guilt" T-shirt?

And what in any of my posts leads you to that conclusion?

Yeah, I sure wish I was a black tranny woman muslim that was on welfare with 10 kids on food stamps in a section 8 house.

I could check all the boxes and live the good life.

[okie52]

I promise ya, there's some that post on this board that think you should feel guilty about that!

Bernie thinks I should feel guilty about keeping more than 1/10th of my earnings. I just haven't made that compassionate step yet....

[Curly Bill]

And what in any of my posts leads you to that conclusion?

Yeah, I sure wish I was a black tranny woman muslim that was on welfare with 10 kids on food stamps in a section 8 house.

I could check all the boxes and live the good life.

I think the good life for you would indeed be something like that, you could be "at one" with the other unfortunate that way. No more guilt!

[Curly Bill]

Bernie thinks I should feel guilty about keeping more than 1/10th of my earnings. I just haven't made that compassionate step yet....

You're just hateful like me. Wanting to keep my money, or at least a fair portion of it, instead of letting the government give it out to others to buy their loyalty. Instead of being able to reward myself for my level of education and work, to reward someone else with it for being a societal loser, but willing to vote democrat when called upon. How shameful!

[Sooner in Tampa]

I don't know. You don't either. Her email scandal is nothing to me. No one else has done it different until now. Benghazi is a sad thing but not some grand conspiracy. Whitewater? Vince foster? Next thing you're gonna do is mention mena drug running. Come on. She's a lifelong bureaucrat. That's the argument against.

This is what cracks me up about the libs..."Her email scandal is nothing to me". She had classified information on a non-approved server...marinate on that for one minute and then think about Gen Petraeus. Petraeus was CONVINCTED for classified information in his house. These are essentially the same crimes in the classified information environment.

But, hey, Petraeus isn't a lib.

[champions77]

I'm tired of her. Better than any of the clowns put forth by the GOP lately though.

Better? In what ways?

In all seriousness, I want to know what it is that attracts you to Hillary Clinton? Her honesty, integrity, her commitment to the US Constitution, her desire to eliminate all of the waste and fraud from government programs? Her commitment to enforce Federal laws with respect to border security? What is it exactly that she stands for makes her better than any of the candidates for the GOP?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Better? In what ways?

In all seriousness, I want to know what it is that attracts you to Hillary Clinton? Her honesty, integrity, her commitment to the US Constitution, her desire to eliminate all of the waste and fraud from government programs? Her commitment to enforce Federal laws with respect to border security? What is it exactly that she stands for makes her better than any of the candidates for the GOP?Defies any logical analysis. Our board libs have bought the accusations by the Power Libs and their media that republicans all hate women, gays, transgenders, blacks, any other minorities, animals, want dirty water and air, don't care about anyone but the super rich, want to attack any and every country, make everybody go to Christian churches and pray, etc. What did I leave out?

[Serenity Now]

Defies any logical analysis. Our board libs have bought the accusations by the Power Libs and their media that republicans all hate women, gays, transgenders, blacks, any other minorities, animals, want dirty water and air, don't care about anyone but the super rich, want to attack any and every country, make everybody go to Christian churches and pray, etc. What did I leave out?
You mostly covered it Mr. Koch.

[Sooner in Tampa]

This bitch...


More than 2 MILLION of Hillary Clinton's Twitter followers are fake or never tweet – and she's already under fire for 'buying' fake Facebook fans

Two different online audit tools say no more than 44 per cent of Hillary's 3.6 million Twitter fans are real people who participate in the platform
The newly minted presidential candidate is fending off accusations that her Facebook page is full of fake 'likes'
Her Facebook fan base includes more people from Baghdad, Iraq than any US city
When she was secretary of state, her agency paid $630,000 to bulk up its Facebook likes, but pledged to stop after she left



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3038621/More-2-MILLION-Hillary-Clinton-s-Twitter-followers-fake-never-tweet.html

[olevetonahill]

This bitch...



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3038621/More-2-MILLION-Hillary-Clinton-s-Twitter-followers-fake-never-tweet.html

But shes Honest and Sincere, And Better than GOP candidate!

[TAFBSooner]

Better? In what ways?

In all seriousness, I want to know what it is that attracts you to Hillary Clinton? Her honesty, integrity, her commitment to the US Constitution, her desire to eliminate all of the waste and fraud from government programs? Her commitment to enforce Federal laws with respect to border security? What is it exactly that she stands for makes her better than any of the candidates for the GOP?

Nothing attracts me to Hillary Clinton. She repels me less than the Republican candidates do.

I'm supporting Bernie in the primaries, and in the general election, will use the same strategy as a liberal as RLIMC preaches as a conservative.

[champions77]

Nothing attracts me to Hillary Clinton. She repels me less than the Republican candidates do.

I'm supporting Bernie in the primaries, and in the general election, will use the same strategy as a liberal as RLIMC preaches as a conservative.

So you're good with Socialism? That's what we've had with the Messiah, and that's what you will get with Hillary and Bernie. Bernie wears his "tag" proudly. He's the more honest one of the two.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Nothing attracts me to Hillary Clinton. She repels me less than the Republican candidates do.

I'm supporting Bernie in the primaries, and in the general election, will use the same strategy as a liberal as RLIMC preaches as a conservative.So, you have gobbled the goop like yermom, rockon, serenity, marfac, and other board knuckleheads. Hope you don't think it comes as a surprise, nor a viable persuasion to anyone.

[Curly Bill]

I just chalk it up to anyone that is a Bernie supporter, or pretty much the democratic party, is a complete and total loser. They might as well announce they think it's the job of the government to take from productive Americans and give it to the societal losers.

[Serenity Now]

This bitch...



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3038621/More-2-MILLION-Hillary-Clinton-s-Twitter-followers-fake-never-tweet.html

Dude, apparently there's so much to NOT like Hillary for and you get on this? If you think this is not a bipartisan issue you're fooling yourself. I've got 65 followers. 100% authentic.

[olevetonahill]

Dude, apparently there's so much to NOT like Hillary for and you get on this? If you think this is not a bipartisan issue you're fooling yourself. I've got 65 followers. 100% authentic.

Thats the thing about Libs, No matter what a Con says , Yall belittle it and say , That all Yall got?
Go **** yerself dip****.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I'm supporting Bernie in the primaries, and in the general election, will use the same strategy as a liberal as RLIMC preaches as a conservative.

Wonder why "Only Black Lives Matter" is following old Bernie around??? Think Billary's crew may be sending them out there?

[Curly Bill]

Wonder why "Only Black Lives Matter" is following old Bernie around??? Think Billary's crew may be sending them out there?

Probably tryin to get the message to ol Bernie he hasn't offered em enough free stuff yet.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Probably tryin to get the message to ol Bernie he hasn't offered em enough free stuff yet.

Heh. Free high rise apartments(you know the ones) and free bread and soup 8a to 5p, Monday thru Saturday.

[champions77]

I just chalk it up to anyone that is a Bernie supporter, or pretty much the democratic party, is a complete and total loser. They might as well announce they think it's the job of the government to take from productive Americans and give it to the societal losers.

Must be a hell of a deal, your base constituency is one of lazy, irresponsible people, more than willing to sit back, let others toil and sweat, all so they can receive their monthly welfare checks, and then go off to the polls and vote for the sorry sacks that promises them even more, all the while those that work hard, have personal responsibility and self reliance, are demonized as greedy heartless bastards, but they are the very ones that finance such excursions into dependency.

Earth to you leftists goons, at some point in time, as more and more folks go on the dole, the government will require something of you, because eventually someone has to do the work, and you will have no choice but to do as they command, it's called servitude. Then will be that magic moment when you will tell yourself, "ok, so that's the loss of freedom those damn Republicans used to talk about all of the time"? Too late, we're all screwed.


http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/image002.jpg

[Curly Bill]

Must be a hell of a deal, your base constituency is one of lazy, irresponsible people, more than willing to sit back, let others toil and sweat, all so they can receive their monthly welfare checks, and then go off to the polls and vote for the sorry sacks that promises them even more, all the while those that work hard, have personal responsibility and self reliance, are demonized as greedy heartless bastards, but they are the very ones that finance such excursions into dependency.

Earth to you leftists goons, at some point in time, as more and more folks go on the dole, the government will require something of you, because eventually someone has to do the work, and you will have no choice but to do as they command, it's called servitude. Then will be that magic moment when you will tell yourself, "ok, so that's the loss of freedom those damn Republicans used to talk about all of the time"? Too late, we're all screwed.


http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/image002.jpg

Bread and circus!

[TAFBSooner]

Wonder why "Only Black Lives Matter" is following old Bernie around??? Think Billary's crew may be sending them out there?

Really? "Only Black Lives Matter?" There's no such thing. Black Lives Matter is trying to get equal footing with "Only cops' lives matter."

And guess what? There's a profit motive involved too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/us/training-officers-to-shoot-first-and-he-will-answer-questions-later.html?_r=0

Police officers "trained" by this guy (may there be a Hell because if there is he WILL burn in it) may be the explanation for the case where the black driver at a gas station was shot while complying with the officer's instructions to present his license and insurance.

Full disclosure: I'm white. I have a family member with mental illness. People with mental illness are the police's second-favorite targets. So this is personal.

[TAFBSooner]

So you're good with Socialism? That's what we've had with the Messiah, and that's what you will get with Hillary and Bernie. Bernie wears his "tag" proudly. He's the more honest one of the two.

Maybe she was in 1993 - I honestly don't remember the details of HillaryCare, except that it was more socialist than ObamaCare. But this century she's a corporatist, taking donations from Donald Trump, voting for the Iraq invasion, and keeping vewy, vewy kwiet about TPP.

I'm decidedly NOT in favor of government ownership of the means of production, i.e., actual socialism.

I'm also not in favor of the dole for the able-bodied, but I am in favor of WPA-style government jobs and other forms of Keynesianism when the private economy is not providing enough jobs.

Oh, by the way, Bernie is a "democratic socialist" which in practice doesn't mean socialism plus small-d democratic governance, but a Scandinavian style economy.

[TAFBSooner]

Must be a hell of a deal, your base constituency is one of lazy, irresponsible people, more than willing to sit back, let others toil and sweat, all so they can receive their monthly welfare checks, and then go off to the polls and vote for the sorry sacks that promises them even more, all the while those that work hard, have personal responsibility and self reliance, are demonized as greedy heartless bastards, but they are the very ones that finance such excursions into dependency.

Earth to you leftists goons, at some point in time, as more and more folks go on the dole, the government will require something of you, because eventually someone has to do the work, and you will have no choice but to do as they command, it's called servitude. Then will be that magic moment when you will tell yourself, "ok, so that's the loss of freedom those damn Republicans used to talk about all of the time"? Too late, we're all screwed.


http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/image002.jpg

You're worried about the wrong problem. Our economy is evolving the other direction, whereby automation is taking over jobs, and there's not enough work to go around (at livable wages today, and eventually not enough work period).

[champions77]

You're worried about the wrong problem. Our economy is evolving the other direction, whereby automation is taking over jobs, and there's not enough work to go around (at livable wages today, and eventually not enough work period).

So that's why your party is allowing tens of thousands to come across the border? Will that help that situation? To be fair, we've had a lot of Repubs allow it too. Too much influence by the Chamber of Commerce I guess.

There are jobs, I can't tell you the number of business owners that cannot find people to fill jobs. Some would rather live a little less, but have no responsibility. The government becomes competition to some employers. How can that be good?

We can agree on the WPA type jobs. The absolute worst thing about the welfare programs under the Great Society were that they did not require any effort for their government check nothing. That to me was the beginning of the end of America. The very virtues that made us great, under attack. Generations lost to a hopeless life of dependency. Education could be the ticket out, but the Labor Unions do not want vouchers or charter schools as competition, afraid they will have results, and they like things the way they are, dumbing down the masses and creating a life of dependency. What a future.



Obama Wrong on D.C. School Vouchers and Hypocritical, Just Like Congress


The program gave desperate parents a shot at quality education for their children.



By Peter Roff

April 22, 2009 | 5:48 p.m. EDT
+ More

By Peter Roff, Thomas Jefferson Street blog

Despite giving lip service to education reform, the Obama administration has decided to put an end to the very successful D.C. school voucher program. This despite a United States Department of Education report that found students in the nation's capital that were provided with vouchers allowing them to attend private school through the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship program had made statistically significant gains in reading achievement.

According to the department's evaluation of the three-year-old program, "those offered a scholarship were performing at statistically higher levels in reading—equivalent to 3.1 months of additional learning," something very much in line with previous findings concerning the program's effectiveness.

Columnist Juan Williams, who can often be found providing the liberal perspective on the Fox News Channel, called the decision to end the program, "Obama's outrageous sin against our kids."


"The cause of my upset is watching the key civil rights issue of this generation—improving big city public school education—get tossed overboard by political gamesmanship," Williams wrote Monday. "If there is one goal that deserves to be held above day-to-day partisanship and pettiness of ordinary politics it is the effort to end the scandalous poor level of academic achievement and abysmally high drop-out rates for America's black and Hispanic students."

The D.C. voucher program provided D.C. parents desperate to find a quality education for their children a much needed lifeline. Unfortunately, as Williams pointed out, the program has fallen victim to the education politics.

You know TAFB, this is but one example of how the Dems will take the side of the Labor Unions over the well being of poor black kids. Why, because those Unions funnel millions of dollars into Democratic candidates coffers. So when you hear these Libs talking about raising people up, please know that most are full of _hit. Can you admit that?

[Serenity Now]

Thats the thing about Libs, No matter what a Con says , Yall belittle it and say , That all Yall got?
Go **** yerself dip****.

You should totally block me then dip****. (I typed them instead of the actual bad word).

[olevetonahill]

You should totally block me then dip****. (I typed them instead of the actual bad word).

Nope, Cant **** with ya if I block ya LOL
I was being civil until you went off the rails

[TAFBSooner]

So that's why your party is allowing tens of thousands to come across the border? Will that help that situation? To be fair, we've had a lot of Repubs allow it too. Too much influence by the Chamber of Commerce I guess.

Besides automation, the other major threat to jobs is corporate-friendly globalization. TPP. Thanks Obama.


There are jobs, I can't tell you the number of business owners that cannot find people to fill jobs. Some would rather live a little less, but have no responsibility. The government becomes competition to some employers. How can that be good?

We can agree on the WPA type jobs. The absolute worst thing about the welfare programs under the Great Society were that they did not require any effort for their government check nothing. That to me was the beginning of the end of America. The very virtues that made us great, under attack. Generations lost to a hopeless life of dependency. Education could be the ticket out, but the Labor Unions do not want vouchers or charter schools as competition, afraid they will have results, and they like things the way they are, dumbing down the masses and creating a life of dependency. What a future.

In a perfect world, we could have teachers paid a living wage AND accountable for results. Teaching is a calling, one of the most important jobs of all, and we should be paying our teachers accordingly.


Obama Wrong on D.C. School Vouchers and Hypocritical, Just Like Congress


The program gave desperate parents a shot at quality education for their children.



By Peter Roff

April 22, 2009 | 5:48 p.m. EDT
+ More

By Peter Roff, Thomas Jefferson Street blog

Despite giving lip service to education reform, the Obama administration has decided to put an end to the very successful D.C. school voucher program. This despite a United States Department of Education report that found students in the nation's capital that were provided with vouchers allowing them to attend private school through the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship program had made statistically significant gains in reading achievement.

According to the department's evaluation of the three-year-old program, "those offered a scholarship were performing at statistically higher levels in reading—equivalent to 3.1 months of additional learning," something very much in line with previous findings concerning the program's effectiveness.

Columnist Juan Williams, who can often be found providing the liberal perspective on the Fox News Channel, called the decision to end the program, "Obama's outrageous sin against our kids."


"The cause of my upset is watching the key civil rights issue of this generation—improving big city public school education—get tossed overboard by political gamesmanship," Williams wrote Monday. "If there is one goal that deserves to be held above day-to-day partisanship and pettiness of ordinary politics it is the effort to end the scandalous poor level of academic achievement and abysmally high drop-out rates for America's black and Hispanic students."

The D.C. voucher program provided D.C. parents desperate to find a quality education for their children a much needed lifeline. Unfortunately, as Williams pointed out, the program has fallen victim to the education politics.

You know TAFB, this is but one example of how the Dems will take the side of the Labor Unions over the well being of poor black kids. Why, because those Unions funnel millions of dollars into Democratic candidates coffers. So when you hear these Libs talking about raising people up, please know that most are full of _hit. Can you admit that?

When I hear establishment Democrats talk, I know many of them are full of $hit. That doesn't apply so much to actual liberals.

Looks like the school voucher deal is one of the c. 60% of bad Obama decisions.

When the business owners start to pay something close to a livable wage, they won't have such a hard time finding workers. They will also attract more Americans and provide less of a magnet for immigrants, legal or otherwise. And yes, that's part of why the establishment Republicans aren't interested in stopping immigration.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Really? "Only Black Lives Matter?" There's no such thing. Black Lives Matter is trying to get equal footing with "Only cops' lives matter."

Yeah, really...try telling them ALL lives matter and watch them go ape ****. Maybe instead of trying to blame whitey, they should start with teaching their commrunities that "black lives matter".

[yermom]

Nothing attracts me to Hillary Clinton. She repels me less than the Republican candidates do.

I'm supporting Bernie in the primaries, and in the general election, will use the same strategy as a liberal as RLIMC preaches as a conservative.

pretty much this.

[yermom]

So you're good with Socialism? That's what we've had with the Messiah, and that's what you will get with Hillary and Bernie. Bernie wears his "tag" proudly. He's the more honest one of the two.

last time i checked the current government doesn't fit the defininition of "socialism"

do you have a different one?

[SicEmBaylor]

last time i checked the current government doesn't fit the defininition of "socialism"

do you have a different one?

Well, it is socialism. The oddest thing about it though is that while I believe Obama to be a Marxist at heart, he governs more in the fascistic model. The Affordable Care Act is a perfect example. People who claim the ACA is a result of Marxist ideology don't know what the hell they're talking about. It's very much a fascistic (in the purely economic sense of the word) model.

If we're being honest with ourselves here, the United States has been a fascist country for a very long time in some form or another.

[yermom]

Obamacare is a band aid on a bullet hole.

It's some ****ty compromise that I'm not that sure helped anyone.

Last I checked Obama didn't do anything to break up the oligarchy. Clinton 2.0 won't either, but she at least might sell the middle class out a little less than anyone in the GOP would.

[Curly Bill]

Obamacare is a band aid on a bullet hole.

It's some ****ty compromise that I'm not that sure helped anyone.

Last I checked Obama didn't do anything to break up the oligarchy. Clinton 2.0 won't either, but she at least might sell the middle class out a little less than anyone in the GOP would.

The donks are gonna help the middle class? Much like they've helped the poor? Much like they've helped the black community?

I can't believe there are people really stupid enough to buy that noise!

[yermom]

That's not even remotely what I said

[SicEmBaylor]

Obamacare is a band aid on a bullet hole.

In many cases, it isn't even that. Plenty of people have seen their premiums skyrocket, and many of the so called 'affordable healthcare plans' have been or are cheaper in the open market.

The solution to getting healthcare costs under control is to completely eliminate government involvement. Paying for healthcare should be no different than paying for a bottle of water. Healthcare costs in the United States skyrocketed when government became involved in the process. Prior to that, healthcare costs were affordable for almost all Americans. The creation of medicare is the single biggest contributing factor to the runaway costs we're forced to deal with. Government management of healthcare, inevitably, leads to rationing. Government rationing is always a disaster and only the free market can ensure resources remain available and accessible.

However, such as it is, the United States will never return to a completely free-market healthcare system. Anything between the free-market and a single-payer universal healthcare system is going to be problematic (that's not to say single payer isn't). That's why I actually believe a single-payer healthcare system would be preferable to the cluster**** we currently have. It'd be entirely unconstitutional, but the ACA is a terrible solution.

[yermom]

If insurance companies actually had to compete, maybe prices could go down.

I basically have no say in my realistic options for health care, so I am stuck what whatever company my employer chose to go to bed with this year.

Bring on single payer. Call me a socialist or whatever but no other civilized country does it like we do.

[olevetonahill]

In many cases, it isn't even that. Plenty of people have seen their premiums skyrocket, and many of the so called 'affordable healthcare plans' have been or are cheaper in the open market.

The solution to getting healthcare costs under control is to completely eliminate government involvement. Paying for healthcare should be no different than paying for a bottle of water. Healthcare costs in the United States skyrocketed when government became involved in the process. Prior to that, healthcare costs were affordable for almost all Americans. The creation of medicare is the single biggest contributing factor to the runaway costs we're forced to deal with. Government management of healthcare, inevitably, leads to rationing. Government rationing is always a disaster and only the free market can ensure resources remain available and accessible.

However, such as it is, the United States will never return to a completely free-market healthcare system. Anything between the free-market and a single-payer universal healthcare system is going to be problematic (that's not to say single payer isn't). That's why I actually believe a single-payer healthcare system would be preferable to the cluster**** we currently have. It'd be entirely unconstitutional, but the ACA is a terrible solution.

I disagree again Sicem. In part anyway.The cost of health care started skyrocketing when people started expecting 5 star suites as hospital rooms rather than wards and or semi private rooms . The Gov, definatly needs to get the hell out as well as private hospitals giving patients a choice of a ward, 2 patient room or Private room like it used to be.

If you wanted a Private room you Paid the premium for it.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Her email scandal is nothing to me. No one else has done it different until now.

You are completely clueless on this....


On Tuesday, McCullough sent four of the emails to chairs of several congressional committees. In a cover letter, McCullough said two of the four emails included information that has now been classified up to "Top Secret."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/politics/hillary-clinton-email-server-justice-department/index.html

[Serenity Now]

I could be wrong. This could sink her. We will see.

[yermom]

yeah, i saw that too

she might be boned

better now than after the nomination

i'd really rather not see her as the D choice, Rand Paul seems like the least of the evils on the other side, but i'm not sure he gets anywhere

it seems like the Ds are phoning it in, and Hillary is just basically running unopposed. i just don't see the Sanders thing as realistic.

of course, i never thought a black guy with a name that sounds like Osama Hussein would win the nomination either

[Serenity Now]

yeah, i saw that too

she might be boned

better now than after the nomination

i'd really rather not see her as the D choice, Rand Paul seems like the least of the evils on the other side, but i'm not sure he gets anywhere

it seems like the Ds are phoning it in, and Hillary is just basically running unopposed. i just don't see the Sanders thing as realistic.

of course, i never thought a black guy with a name that sounds like Osama Hussein would win the nomination either

If she's sunk you know ole Joe is picking out ties and getting suits sent to the cleaners. I don't want that. Would Kerry come out of hiding? Schumer??? He seems to be a guy the right likes. :)

[champions77]

I disagree again Sicem. In part anyway.The cost of health care started skyrocketing when people started expecting 5 star suites as hospital rooms rather than wards and or semi private rooms . The Gov, definatly needs to get the hell out as well as private hospitals giving patients a choice of a ward, 2 patient room or Private room like it used to be.

If you wanted a Private room you Paid the premium for it.

But SicEm is right when you compare medical care costs before Medicare and Medicaid and after. Introducing the feds into healthcare caused costs to skyrocket.

[olevetonahill]

But SicEm is right when you compare medical care costs before Medicare and Medicaid and after. Introducing the feds into healthcare caused costs to skyrocket.

Yup thats why i said "IN PART "

[Serenity Now]

Yup thats why i said "IN PART "

My hunch is that physician compensation has increased significantly as compared to other professions. I don't know this but I'm curious. I know primary care is not compensated unreasonably. But, they all want to be specialists now because of the $.

I agree that an unregulated Medicare/Medicaid system from its inception until the 1990's was a big part of the problem. Medicare is the baseline now.

[TAFBSooner]

My hunch is that physician compensation has increased significantly as compared to other professions. I don't know this but I'm curious. I know primary care is not compensated unreasonably. But, they all want to be specialists now because of the $.

I agree that an unregulated Medicare/Medicaid system from its inception until the 1990's was a big part of the problem. Medicare is the baseline now.

Another big factor is that the scope of medical care has expanded incredibly. When I was young, cancer treatment was "sew them back up and prescribe morphine." The equipment alone has to be a huge component to skyrocketing medical costs.

It would be an interesting "clinical trial" to try to separate out the influence of this and the factors you all mentioned already.

[TAFBSooner]

Well, it is socialism. The oddest thing about it though is that while I believe Obama to be a Marxist at heart, he governs more in the fascistic model. The Affordable Care Act is a perfect example. People who claim the ACA is a result of Marxist ideology don't know what the hell they're talking about. It's very much a fascistic (in the purely economic sense of the word) model.

If we're being honest with ourselves here, the United States has been a fascist country for a very long time in some form or another.

From Webster:

Socialism 1. any of various theories or systems of the ownership and operation of the means of production and distribution by society or the community rather than by private individuals, with all members of the society or the community sharing in the work and the products.

The US doesn't have socialism by that definition. What is your working definition of socialism?

Fascism is another post.

[SicEmBaylor]

From Webster:

Socialism 1. any of various theories or systems of the ownership and operation of the means of production and distribution by society or the community rather than by private individuals, with all members of the society or the community sharing in the work and the products.

The US doesn't have socialism by that definition. What is your working definition of socialism?

Fascism is another post.

The dictionary definitions of political terms is absolutely terrible. Always has been.

Fascism is a form of socialism. A fascist government makes all facets of life subservient to the national will/society including marshaling the nation's economy and industry for that purpose. Rather than nationalize and convert the nation's industry into a system of collective ownership, it forms a partnership or conglomerate with business to serve the national will. Corporatism and fascism are close cousins. Like every other form of socialism, the state exploits economic resources for the social/national good. Ostensibly.

This is exactly what the United States does to a certain magnitude. The Affordable Care Act is a textbook example of marshaling an industry and directing it toward serving the national will. In this case, it's directing the health insurance industry toward serving the national will/national good. We do the same thing with the nation's green industry, the military-industrial complex, the banking system, etc. There's also this country's long tradition of hyper-nationalism that certainly feels fascistic at times.

Outright nationalization of the healthcare industry into a single-payer system would have been the Marxist step toward a fully realized communist actualization, at least insofar as healthcare is concerned. Yet, I still believe such a nationalization would be preferable to the unholy alliance between the state and national healthcare industries that combine the worst aspects of both.

[Serenity Now]

The dictionary definitions of political terms is absolutely terrible. Always has been.

Fascism is a form of socialism. A fascist government makes all facets of life subservient to the national will/society including marshaling the nation's economy and industry for that purpose. Rather than nationalize and convert the nation's industry into a system of collective ownership, it forms a partnership or conglomerate with business to serve the national will. Corporatism and fascism are close cousins. Like every other form of socialism, the state exploits economic resources for the social/national good. Ostensibly.

This is exactly what the United States does to a certain magnitude. The Affordable Care Act is a textbook example of marshaling an industry and directing it toward serving the national will. In this case, it's directing the health insurance industry toward serving the national will/national good. We do the same thing with the nation's green industry, the military-industrial complex, the banking system, etc. There's also this country's long tradition of hyper-nationalism that certainly feels fascistic at times.

Outright nationalization of the healthcare industry into a single-payer system would have been the Marxist step toward a fully realized communist actualization, at least insofar as healthcare is concerned. Yet, I still believe such a nationalization would be preferable to the unholy alliance between the state and national healthcare industries that combine the worst aspects of both.

You left out hegmonistic.

I figure there's a line from pure socialist to pure capitalist. We are somewhere on that line. Never fully in one way or the other.

[FaninAma]

They pander to the corporations with a side of Jesus to keep the idiot masses in line even against their best interest
LOL. Like Hillary and Bill haven't lined their pockets with the donations from big corporations(and foreign governments) to their Foundation. Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

[Tear Down This Wall]

If insurance companies actually had to compete, maybe prices could go down.

I basically have no say in my realistic options for health care, so I am stuck what whatever company my employer chose to go to bed with this year.

Bring on single payer. Call me a socialist or whatever but no other civilized country does it like we do.

They were completing before. Now, they are merging.

Another thing that has gone out the window over the past two decades is anti-trust law. Again, as government and big business have grown closer, anti-trust scrutiny has waned.

Most major corporations now give to both sides.

[TAFBSooner]

The dictionary definitions of political terms is absolutely terrible. Always has been.



I already figured out that you thought that, at least about socialism. Again, what is your working definition of socialism?

[TAFBSooner]

They were completing before. Now, they are merging.

Another thing that has gone out the window over the past two decades is anti-trust law. Again, as government and big business have grown closer, anti-trust scrutiny has waned.

Most major corporations now give to both sides.

Therefore both sides pander to the corporations. Even more than they did before.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Therefore both sides pander to the corporations. Even more than they did before.

Yes. That's been my point all along. Big business is in league with the politicians. So, what do we have? A shrinking middle class, growing poor class, and stable rich class. That's Mexico...and, we are becoming the same.

No one is ever in trouble. Anyone go to jail over the real estate and banking shenanigans? Nope. The guns to Mexican drug gangs? Personal e-mail servers used and hidden from national security officials? These are just three big ones that stick out like sore thumbs.

There is no government or big business corruption that is punished. Everyone has everyone else's back in Washington, D.C. It's a joke that people still choose parties and assume one or the other will change things.

Jon Corzine is the poster child of wasting money in the private and public sector, then skating away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG6b_0tgKO8

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/jon-corzine-is-the-original-george-zimmerman-20120424

He simply does not know where the money is, okay? None of them ever do. But...none of them ever leaves their political or executive positions poorer.

[SoonerProphet]

I already figured out that you thought that, at least about socialism. Again, what is your working definition of socialism?

Not Sic, but government ownership or direct control over major sectors of the economy. Most folks with a couple brains cells to scratch together know that isn't the case here. I might also use some jargon regarding revolutionary change, blah blah. Again, not the Dems and not here. We here in the US of A have "welfarism" not socialism. Some might argue a corporatist angle to economic control as well. Sic ems, fascism slant for example.

[SicEmBaylor]

I already figured out that you thought that, at least about socialism. Again, what is your working definition of socialism?

I consider socialism to be any system whereby the means or results of production and industry are wholly or partially controlled and/or owned by society as a whole either directly or indirectly via some sort of government.

[TAFBSooner]

Not Sic, but government ownership or direct control over major sectors of the economy. Most folks with a couple brains cells to scratch together know that isn't the case here. I might also use some jargon regarding revolutionary change, blah blah. Again, not the Dems and not here. We here in the US of A have "welfarism" not socialism. Some might argue a corporatist angle to economic control as well. Sic ems, fascism slant for example.

I was trying to point that out - that what we have here isn't socialism. Libertarians and some other conservatives try to mystically merge "over"regulation with socialism, but they are different breeds of cats. Still other conservatives try to mystically merge the welfare state (even our ersatz welfare state) with socialism, but that's wrong too.

I look down and see lots of monkey faces (not sure if they're grimacing or smiling), trying to climb up. I look up and see a few monkey asses, producing the poo their owners are about to fling down on us. I can hold my own with the ones climbing up, but I'm tired of dodging the poo from above.

We have a few (at least one) upper class folks on this forum, and lots of middle class folks. I don't think there are many poor folks, or they would be much angrier at how they're being characterized.

[TAFBSooner]

I consider socialism to be any system whereby the means or results of production and industry are wholly or partially controlled and/or owned by society as a whole either directly or indirectly via some sort of government.

Thank you.

By "partially," do you mean anywhere from 1 to 99%?

Definitions are important. It's hard to have a decent conversation without some agreement on the basic terms.

[SicEmBaylor]

Thank you.

By "partially," do you mean anywhere from 1 to 99%?

Definitions are important. It's hard to have a decent conversation without some agreement on the basic terms.

I agree, and that's a fair enough point. I'd say a controlling interest constitutes 'partial' ownership.

[TAFBSooner]

I agree, and that's a fair enough point. I'd say a controlling interest constitutes 'partial' ownership.

And here by "controlling interest" I'm guessing you mean "the state can tell a company what to do and what not to do," not "51% of the ownership class of stock." That subject is good for a whole other thread.

But let's stick with definitions for a bit. Fascism, for example.

[I love the last line of this one:

1922, originally used in English 1920 in its Italian form (see fascist). Applied to similar groups in Germany from 1923; applied to everyone since the rise of the Internet. :-) ]

All the definitions I found seem to be a variation of "Benito's thing" (and sometimes Adolph's too). I agree with you that those are poor. By those definitions there is no more fascism, which is so unsatisfying!

-- a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

-- any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism

-- the political movement, doctrine, system, or regime of Benito Mussolini in Italy, which encouraged militarism and nationalism, organizing the country along hierarchical authoritarian lines

Benito himself started out as a socialist. When he later "invented" fascism, he said "...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect.

Upon reading the whole thing I think the meat hook was too good for him.
http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.asp

From a list of Mussolini quotes (http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/221166.Benito_Mussolini):
“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”

Some folks on my team read the above as showing that fascism is the ownership of the state by the corporations, and so to connect it to what we have today. That's not what Benito meant, if you read the contents of the two links. He loved him some capitalists, but he put them under the State.

I disagree, SicEm, that fascism is a form of socialism. They have similarities in that both put the State above the individual. Fascism is always totalitarian, socialism is not necessarily. In actual history Communism is totalitarian socialism. Most people put fascism on the political right, but it's really its own ugly little category.

[Soonerjeepman]

Yes. That's been my point all along. Big business is in league with the politicians. So, what do we have? A shrinking middle class, growing poor class, and stable rich class. That's Mexico...and, we are becoming the same.

No one is ever in trouble. Anyone go to jail over the real estate and banking shenanigans? Nope. The guns to Mexican drug gangs? Personal e-mail servers used and hidden from national security officials? These are just three big ones that stick out like sore thumbs.

There is no government or big business corruption that is punished. Everyone has everyone else's back in Washington, D.C. It's a joke that people still choose parties and assume one or the other will change things.

Jon Corzine is the poster child of wasting money in the private and public sector, then skating away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG6b_0tgKO8

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/jon-corzine-is-the-original-george-zimmerman-20120424

He simply does not know where the money is, okay? None of them ever do. But...none of them ever leaves their political or executive positions poorer.


EXCELLENT post...the bold is so right on spot...THIS drives me crazy. EVERY politician TALKS big but does NOTHING>.

[Serenity Now]

So Rove deleted as many as 22,000,000 emails? WTF?

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/missing-white-house-emails


In 2007, when Congress asked the Bush administration for emails surrounding the firing of eights U.S. attorneys, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales revealed that many of the emails requested could not be produced because they were sent on a non-government email server. The officials had used the private domain gwb43.com, a server run by the Republican National Committee. Two years later, it was revealed that potentially 22 million emails were deleted, which was considered by some to be a violation of the Presidential Records Act.

[olevetonahill]

So Rove deleted as many as 22,000,000 emails? WTF?

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/missing-white-house-emails

Good Jorb,

[Turd_Ferguson]

So Rove deleted as many as 22,000,000 emails? WTF?

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/missing-white-house-emails

Haha!! Look at the hand wringing ***** justifying his messiah queen.

I wonder, why hasn't there been any dem that's backing Hillary, bring this to light?

[Turd_Ferguson]

"the shrug heard 'round the world"...lmao.

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/08/Hillary-Vegas-top-640x480.jpg

[Serenity Now]

Haha!! Look at the hand wringing ***** justifying his messiah queen.

I wonder, why hasn't there been any dem that's backing Hillary, bring this to light?

It does beg the question, why hasn't Rove been drawn/quartered?

[olevetonahill]

It does beg the question, why hasn't Rove been drawn/quartered?

Ok this has been Jacked beyound all belief
SN a simple question Yes or NO. Do YOU want Hilliary above all other candidates, Or Potential candidates, Dem, Repub or Indy?

[Serenity Now]

From post #6: I've honestly done no digging yet as to who I would choose. It really makes almost no difference what an okie dem thinks. I will take her over Biden. I like sanders but he's too far left.

I also agreed with Rush's post to lock the thread and throw away the key with post #5.

[dwarthog]

So Rove deleted as many as 22,000,000 emails? WTF?

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/missing-white-house-emails

Apples and oranges with regards to the material and risks associated with firing of some US Attorneys, (they serve at the Presidents discretion), vs Sec Def communications and emails.

More to the point is the apparent issue that it's far too easy for any party, Rep/Dem, to bypass official communications channels and use other means of messaging.

Lois Lerner
Hillary Clinton
Karl Rove

I'm sure the list goes on.