Bernie Sanders. Really?

[champions77]

I see where the self described socialist candidate Bernie Sanders is drawing some big crowds in Wisconsin. Give him credit for being honest with his identity. You won't see Hillary showing such veracity.

But ole Bernie, with his tired old message that just tax the wealthy at 90% and the middle class will benefit. Really? Wouldn't it have the effect of creating massive layoffs, a great majority of which would severely damage the middle class? I mean the wealthy in this country hire most of the workers right? Don't see poor people doing much hiring. The socialist party (you know who I'm referring to) spends a great deal of time and energy attacking the successful in this country in their class warfare campaigns, and passing legislation that attempts to accomplish just that., whether it be with the EPA, tax policy, onerous regulations, affirmative action hiring requirements etc. And then wonders why businesses struggle, which means few businesses hire, which results in the middle class struggling? Is this all supposed to be difficult to figure out?

I suspect that 90% of the folks supporting Bernie are Democrats. So we have a President that appointed several socialists to his cabinet and even a communist or two like Van Jones. Now we see Bernie Sanders doing pretty well. And some want to paint the GOP and the Tea Party as radicals? There is one Party in this Country that has moved radically in one direction, far from the ideas and principles of our Framers, and their initials are not GOP.

[REDREX]

Ed Schultz has a man crush on Bernie

[Tear Down This Wall]

I see where the self described socialist candidate Bernie Sanders is drawing some big crowds in Wisconsin. Give him credit for being honest with his identity. You won't see Hillary showing such veracity.

But ole Bernie, with his tired old message that just tax the wealthy at 90% and the middle class will benefit. Really? Wouldn't it have the effect of creating massive layoffs, a great majority of which would severely damage the middle class? I mean the wealthy in this country hire most of the workers right? Don't see poor people doing much hiring. The socialist party (you know who I'm referring to) spends a great deal of time and energy attacking the successful in this country in their class warfare campaigns, and passing legislation that attempts to accomplish just that., whether it be with the EPA, tax policy, onerous regulations, affirmative action hiring requirements etc. And then wonders why businesses struggle, which means few businesses hire, which results in the middle class struggling? Is this all supposed to be difficult to figure out?

I suspect that 90% of the folks supporting Bernie are Democrats. So we have a President that appointed several socialists to his cabinet and even a communist or two like Van Jones. Now we see Bernie Sanders doing pretty well. And some want to paint the GOP and the Tea Party as radicals? There is one Party in this Country that has moved radically in one direction, far from the ideas and principles of our Framers, and their initials are not GOP.

It doesn't matter what any of them say or do. Ohio and Florida both have enough minorities now to ensure whichever Democrat is nominated will be the president. That's the beauty of the electoral college mixed with a growing minority population. It is rapidly feeding the idiocracy that twice made Barak Obama the president.

I predicted years ago that our country would become like Mexico it's just happening 20-30 years before I thought it would. We'll get the same type of weak leaders Mexico gets from here until it crumbles.

And, even after it crumbles, the poor are still fooled into living under or supporting those who rail against the rich. SEE Cuba, Mexico, and Venezuela. You can't fix stupid.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Watch Idiocracy!

[Serenity Now]

I see where the self described socialist candidate Bernie Sanders is drawing some big crowds in Wisconsin. Give him credit for being honest with his identity. You won't see Hillary showing such veracity.

But ole Bernie, with his tired old message that just tax the wealthy at 90% and the middle class will benefit. Really? Wouldn't it have the effect of creating massive layoffs, a great majority of which would severely damage the middle class? I mean the wealthy in this country hire most of the workers right? Don't see poor people doing much hiring. The socialist party (you know who I'm referring to) spends a great deal of time and energy attacking the successful in this country in their class warfare campaigns, and passing legislation that attempts to accomplish just that., whether it be with the EPA, tax policy, onerous regulations, affirmative action hiring requirements etc. And then wonders why businesses struggle, which means few businesses hire, which results in the middle class struggling? Is this all supposed to be difficult to figure out?

I suspect that 90% of the folks supporting Bernie are Democrats. So we have a President that appointed several socialists to his cabinet and even a communist or two like Van Jones. Now we see Bernie Sanders doing pretty well. And some want to paint the GOP and the Tea Party as radicals? There is one Party in this Country that has moved radically in one direction, far from the ideas and principles of our Framers, and their initials are not GOP.

From what I've read his tax rates would be lower than those under Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[REDREX]

From what I've read his tax rates would be lower than those under Dwight D. Eisenhower.---Very poor argument---Go look at what people were making back then--

[TAFBSooner]

---Very poor argument---Go look at what people were making back then--

They were making cars, iron and steel, appliances, clothing, those new-fangled televisions, and pretty much everything we needed, and exporting quite a bit too. :-)

Seriously, explain how the wages and cost of living in the 1950's vs. now affect arguments about marginal tax rates.

[REDREX]

They were making cars, iron and steel, appliances, clothing, those new-fangled televisions, and pretty much everything we needed, and exporting quite a bit too. :-)

Seriously, explain how the wages and cost of living in the 1950's vs. now affect arguments about marginal tax rates.---Yep and most of the rest of the world was recovering from WW2----That's why the economy did so well---- http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&view=detailv2&qpvt=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&id=098F93C7312CC87BB3C6A2109ABC34CC15AC8F92&selectedindex=3&ccid=WzjVg90H&simid=608011402302259730&thid=JN.Z3KBNPY4AKaaDHZhZ%2FKlHQ&mode=overlay&first=1

[Serenity Now]

---Very poor argument---Go look at what people were making back then--

Does it matter how much one is making? How was relative income vs. expenditures then any different than it is now?

[Serenity Now]

---Yep and most of the rest of the world was recovering from WW2----That's why the economy did so well---- http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&view=detailv2&qpvt=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&id=098F93C7312CC87BB3C6A2109ABC34CC15AC8F92&selectedindex=3&ccid=WzjVg90H&simid=608011402302259730&thid=JN.Z3KBNPY4AKaaDHZhZ%2FKlHQ&mode=overlay&first=1

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&view=detailv2&qpvt=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&id=C340D316897037F85E97E3E8D2B1E73627A3F98A&selectedindex=2&ccid=OfPjWqYJ&simid=607989403481932469&thid=JN.RTJY7QvcEM%2FMqUGgXL49gA&mode=overlay&first=1&adlt=strict

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&view=detailv2&qpvt=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&id=1C0E7E4F3FF0A49C54F4E944C86854B2C9CB120B&selectedindex=4&ccid=g5NenGS4&simid=608050014057140191&thid=JN.QqSThiXJO9BbPs2Svbm%2FlQ&mode=overlay&first=1&adlt=strict


From your link.

[TAFBSooner]

---Yep and most of the rest of the world was recovering from WW2----That's why the economy did so well---- http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&view=detailv2&qpvt=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&id=098F93C7312CC87BB3C6A2109ABC34CC15AC8F92&selectedindex=3&ccid=WzjVg90H&simid=608011402302259730&thid=JN.Z3KBNPY4AKaaDHZhZ%2FKlHQ&mode=overlay&first=1

So to you, it was all about there being "no competition" in the post-war period? It had nothing to do with factory owners reinvesting revenues (thereby building up their ability to produce and compete) to keep them away from the tax man?

I would still like to hear how the wages and cost of living in the 1950's vs. now affect arguments about marginal tax rates.

[REDREX]

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&view=detailv2&qpvt=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&id=C340D316897037F85E97E3E8D2B1E73627A3F98A&selectedindex=2&ccid=OfPjWqYJ&simid=607989403481932469&thid=JN.RTJY7QvcEM%2FMqUGgXL49gA&mode=overlay&first=1&adlt=strict

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&view=detailv2&qpvt=federal+income+tax+brackets+1955&id=1C0E7E4F3FF0A49C54F4E944C86854B2C9CB120B&selectedindex=4&ccid=g5NenGS4&simid=608050014057140191&thid=JN.QqSThiXJO9BbPs2Svbm%2FlQ&mode=overlay&first=1&adlt=strict


From your link.----How many people were paying at the top marginal rate in the 1950's----not many

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I see where the self described socialist candidate Bernie Sanders is drawing some big crowds in Wisconsin. Give him credit for being honest with his identity. You won't see Hillary showing such veracity.

But ole Bernie, with his tired old message that just tax the wealthy at 90% and the middle class will benefit. Really? Wouldn't it have the effect of creating massive layoffs, a great majority of which would severely damage the middle class? I mean the wealthy in this country hire most of the workers right? Don't see poor people doing much hiring. The socialist party (you know who I'm referring to) spends a great deal of time and energy attacking the successful in this country in their class warfare campaigns, and passing legislation that attempts to accomplish just that., whether it be with the EPA, tax policy, onerous regulations, affirmative action hiring requirements etc. And then wonders why businesses struggle, which means few businesses hire, which results in the middle class struggling? Is this all supposed to be difficult to figure out?

I suspect that 90% of the folks supporting Bernie are Democrats. So we have a President that appointed several socialists to his cabinet and even a communist or two like Van Jones. Now we see Bernie Sanders doing pretty well. And some want to paint the GOP and the Tea Party as radicals? There is one Party in this Country that has moved radically in one direction, far from the ideas and principles of our Framers, and their initials are not GOP.

The problem is that while the bottom 90% eat it up, the reality is that rich people are hard as crap to tax.

Unlike someone who makes $10 an hour, rich people have the means to

1. pack up and leave to a place that is friendlier from a tax perspective.
2. shut down income streams (go all muni or something) and rely on existing assets until the tax is changed
3. use high tax times to take advantage of losses to balance out income

So outside of declaring stock holdings as property and available for local property tax, this plan will see a huge reduction in tax revenue.

[Serenity Now]

----How many people were paying at the top marginal rate in the 1950's----not many

Do you not see the irony in your assessment? The TAFB guy has a point. When things get reinvested, it's a good thing. Supply side economics, or "Voodoo" economics (ref. Ferris Bueller's Day Off) have proven to actually NOT work. The "job creators" create jobs in 3rd World Countries and buy bigger yachts, bigger vacation homes and bigger golden parachutes. https://www.google.com/search?q=ceo+pay+ratio&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=965&tbm=isch&imgil=HAFf_0sJVqFfVM%253A%253BHnyGGlMr4bEr_M%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.shrm.org%25252Fhrdisci plines%25252Fcompensation%25252Farticles%25252Fpag es%25252Fpayratios.aspx&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HAFf_0sJVqFfVM%253A%252CHnyGGlMr4bEr_M%252C_&usg=__qc-uas6kN95Eu1yzc9bjc-n7sTE%3D&ved=0CCkQyjdqFQoTCMb1hI2zx8YCFRYWkgodb6QK5g&ei=ZeyaVYavJJasyATvyKqwDg#imgrc=Q-eTY3DKqbgI9M%3A&usg=__qc-uas6kN95Eu1yzc9bjc-n7sTE%3D

[champions77]

From what I've read his tax rates would be lower than those under Dwight D. Eisenhower.

So you are ok with 90% tax brackets for the super wealthy? I guess super wealthy to a dem is anyone making 500K a year.

So what happened to those 90% tax brackets? JFK faced rising unemployment, a falling stock market and slumping profits as he took office. He faced this coming crisis by reducing tax rates. Gosh sounds like some trickle down to me.

[REDREX]

Do you not see the irony in your assessment? The TAFB guy has a point. When things get reinvested, it's a good thing. Supply side economics, or "Voodoo" economics (ref. Ferris Bueller's Day Off) have proven to actually NOT work. The "job creators" create jobs in 3rd World Countries and buy bigger yachts, bigger vacation homes and bigger golden parachutes. https://www.google.com/search?q=ceo+pay+ratio&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=965&tbm=isch&imgil=HAFf_0sJVqFfVM%253A%253BHnyGGlMr4bEr_M%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.shrm.org%25252Fhrdisci plines%25252Fcompensation%25252Farticles%25252Fpag es%25252Fpayratios.aspx&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HAFf_0sJVqFfVM%253A%252CHnyGGlMr4bEr_M%252C_&usg=__qc-uas6kN95Eu1yzc9bjc-n7sTE%3D&ved=0CCkQyjdqFQoTCMb1hI2zx8YCFRYWkgodb6QK5g&ei=ZeyaVYavJJasyATvyKqwDg#imgrc=Q-eTY3DKqbgI9M%3A&usg=__qc-uas6kN95Eu1yzc9bjc-n7sTE%3D--Free Enterprise built this country and made it rich-----Socialism will destroy any country including this one over time---Glad you have your CEO talking points down

[Serenity Now]

So you are ok with 90% tax brackets for the super wealthy? I guess super wealthy to a dem is anyone making 500K a year.

So what happened to those 90% tax brackets? JFK faced rising unemployment, a falling stock market and slumping profits as he took office. He faced this coming crisis by reducing tax rates. Gosh sounds like some trickle down to me.

No. I don't find 90% tax brackets when I look it up. My thought was that it was hyperbole on your part.

JFK is the only president to make supply side economics work. Maybe that's what got him kilt as he was de-escalating big war.

[Serenity Now]

--Free Enterprise built this country and made it rich-----Socialism will destroy any country including this one over time---Glad you have your CEO talking points down

Sweden, Norway, etc. don't seem to be doing so bad. We have elements of socialism and have for years. Medicare, schools, etc.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

--Free Enterprise built this country and made it rich-----Socialism will destroy any country including this one over time---Glad you have your CEO talking points down

Technically speaking it was actually limiting "free enterprise" that made the country rich. The Sherman/Clayton/FTC acts were instrumental in keeping us from turning into Mexico (where 100 families own 99.3% of the wealth) and GDP growth is abysmal. They allowed the wealth (and more importantly access to capital) to be spread out and allowed the explosive GDP growth that we saw from 1936 on...

[REDREX]

Sweden, Norway, etc. don't seem to be doing so bad. We have elements of socialism and have for years. Medicare, schools, etc.---Norway has 5M people Sweden about 10M and not nearly the percentage of slugs we have here-----Norway receives huge royalty payments that fund many programs------ Hard to compare to the USA----Show me a large country where Socialism is working well------And a better question ,Why would you want more Socialism in this country?

[Serenity Now]

---Norway has 5M people Sweden about 10M and not nearly the percentage of slugs we have here-----Norway receives huge royalty payments that fund many programs------ Hard to compare to the USA----Show me a large country where Socialism is working well------And a better question ,Why would you want more Socialism in this country?
Good point. I'm not a "socialist". I think there's a line from Communist to 100% Capitalist. We're on that line. Some of us think we need to be further one way or the other. We have a graduated income tax, we have public schools, we have Medicare, Medicaid, etc. We have aspects of a socialistic society. I'd be more happy to get rid of some of our corporate socialism.

[SoonerorLater]

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. I still say he was the greatest Running Back of all time and would make a good presidential candidate.

[okie52]

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. I still say he was the greatest Running Back of all time and would make a good presidential candidate.

Too bad Tom Brady isn't running....certainly the best candidate to deal with inflation.

[East Coast Bias]

I think Bernie's message is obviously getting some traction. "Income inequality" is a hot issue and even the Pubs are trying to find a way to work this into their talking points. Bernie has went after the banks and insurance companies and is certainly not main stream. With more and more people on the teat, there is his sweet spot.

[REDREX]

Medicare, Medicaid and public education----Three fine examples of Socialism not working very well

[okie52]

I think Bernie's message is obviously getting some traction. "Income inequality" is a hot issue and even the Pubs are trying to find a way to work this into their talking points. Bernie has went after the banks and insurance companies and is certainly not main stream. With more and more people on the teat, there is his sweet spot.

Bitching about the amount the other guy pays in taxes when you pay none should really resonate with half of the public.

[Serenity Now]

Medicare, Medicaid and public education----Three fine examples of Socialism not working very well

https://www.google.com/search?q=obamacare+signs+supporting+medicaid&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=922&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI29K2lpjJxgIVS3-SCh0PHgO9#tbm=isch&q=obamacare+signs+supporting+medicare&imgrc=yyO4AK_JKQ_05M%3A

I saw more than a handful of these back in the day. Funny story, I swear I saw one of my college roommates in one of the various Tea Party protests with misspelled signs. He denied that it was him. We're great friends yet we differ politically.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

---Norway has 5M people Sweden about 10M and not nearly the percentage of slugs we have here-----Norway receives huge royalty payments that fund many programs------ Hard to compare to the USA----Show me a large country where Socialism is working well------And a better question ,Why would you want more Socialism in this country?

Socialism works best with monocultures. The Scandinavian countries are monocultures with like people and like views/ethics. Easier to "share" with that attitude. Sweden is beginning to have issues due to immigrant imports.

[FaninAma]

From what I've read his tax rates would be lower than those under Dwight D. Eisenhower.
But with a lot fewer deductions resulting in a higher effective tax rate.

[FaninAma]

Ed Schultz has a man crush on Bernie
So he has a boner for Bernie? NTTIAWWT.

[C&CDean]

I know I am pathetically out of touch with the media, but I had to google this Bernie guy. Sounds like a white, old obama.

[champions77]

I see these idiot people out at these Hillary and Bernie rallies and it just reminds me what a bunch of stupid people we have in this country. What message does either one of these pinheads have that would be a benefit to anyone that actually works for a living? And they want to convince me that they are looking out for us?

I asked my 30 year old daughter the other day what percentage she would guess people in her generation would pick having the government take care/control them from cradle to grave versus having 100% freedom to make your life as you wish and she guessed 50% would pick having the government take control of their lives. And some of us wonder why and how we elected this lying POS Prez not once but twice?

The left will not freely admit it, at least publicly, but they are giddy that their efforts to create a culture that is willing to cede control of their lives to a central government is almost complete. A model that is 180 degrees opposite of the principles and virtues that made this country a great country. Personal responsibility, self reliance and a very strong work ethic all were the virtues that allowed the United States to be different, to be great. The left has done everything possible to destroy those bedrock principles. And they are succeeding. Reverse course? Good luck. Anytime a politician tries to do the right thing and re-examine a government program, make it more efficient, cut out the waste and fraud, he is met with something to the effect of "rolling granny over the cliff" or "the Republicans are starving little children"....and the elected official who tried to do the right thing backs down, having lost the PR battle thanks to the main stream media.

Yes, we are doomed I hate to say.

[REDREX]

So he has a boner for Bernie? NTTIAWWT.-I think Ed has given it up to Bernie

[REDREX]

Bernie is frightening----Does he have an clue on what he wants would cost---------How can you left wingers not see that he is a fool?

[Serenity Now]

Bernie is frightening----Does he have an clue on what he wants would cost---------How can you left wingers not see that he is a fool?

Good thing the last Republican president didn't cost us much....

[REDREX]

Good thing the last Republican president didn't cost us much....----What does that have to do with Bernie being a complete fool-----------or is that Bush's fault too?

[Tear Down This Wall]

But with a lot fewer deductions resulting in a higher effective tax rate.

There you go again, trying to use facts in a tax argument with a socialist.

[REDREX]

Good thing the last Republican president didn't cost us much....---Barack has piled up more debt than all the other president combined-------Barack is one of the weakest Presidents of all times

[BoulderSooner79]

...
I asked my 30 year old daughter the other day what percentage she would guess people in her generation would pick having the government take care/control them from cradle to grave versus having 100% freedom to make your life as you wish and she guessed 50% would pick having the government take control of their lives. And some of us wonder why and how we elected this lying POS Prez not once but twice?
...


I doubt that your daughter's estimate is accurate. But what if it is? I figure it's their country now to be shaped the way they want it. I have a daughter of similar age and I consider it to be her time now (and her generation's). I've had my time and it's been a pretty good run. I'm still in the work force producing but I know I have a single digit number of years left to do that. My goal now is to invest in my grown kids future for as long as I can and to do everything I can to be self sufficient until I croak so as not to be a burden on the young folks. If they want a more centralized society, they're the ones that will be the producers and have the burden of making it work. BTW, my daughter seems to have more of an entrepreneurial spirit and I don't think she represents only 50% of the millennials.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Bernie is frightening----Does he have an clue on what he wants would cost---------How can you left wingers not see that he is a fool?Sanders is too collectivist to run as a Democrat. He should go 3rd party.

[yermom]

I see these idiot people out at these Hillary and Bernie rallies and it just reminds me what a bunch of stupid people we have in this country. What message does either one of these pinheads have that would be a benefit to anyone that actually works for a living? And they want to convince me that they are looking out for us?

I asked my 30 year old daughter the other day what percentage she would guess people in her generation would pick having the government take care/control them from cradle to grave versus having 100% freedom to make your life as you wish and she guessed 50% would pick having the government take control of their lives. And some of us wonder why and how we elected this lying POS Prez not once but twice?

The left will not freely admit it, at least publicly, but they are giddy that their efforts to create a culture that is willing to cede control of their lives to a central government is almost complete. A model that is 180 degrees opposite of the principles and virtues that made this country a great country. Personal responsibility, self reliance and a very strong work ethic all were the virtues that allowed the United States to be different, to be great. The left has done everything possible to destroy those bedrock principles. And they are succeeding. Reverse course? Good luck. Anytime a politician tries to do the right thing and re-examine a government program, make it more efficient, cut out the waste and fraud, he is met with something to the effect of "rolling granny over the cliff" or "the Republicans are starving little children"....and the elected official who tried to do the right thing backs down, having lost the PR battle thanks to the main stream media.

Yes, we are doomed I hate to say.

like the conservatives aren't trying to control anyone's lives, and don't think they know better how to run everyone's lives for their Jesusy corporate masters

[okie52]

like the conservatives aren't trying to control anyone's lives, and don't think they know better how to run everyone's lives for their Jesusy corporate masters

Jesusy corporate masters?....ouch!!!

[Serenity Now]

---Barack has piled up more debt than all the other president combined-------Barack is one of the weakest Presidents of all times

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/08/does-obama-have-the-worst-record-on-any-president-on-the-national-debt/

Reagan did worse.

[Serenity Now]

How many GOP hawks are still supporting the F-35 that could end up costing more than $1 trillion and probably never be in combat?

You guys are OK with collective spending on the military industrial complex (ht: Oliver Stone) :)

http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison

[REDREX]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/08/does-obama-have-the-worst-record-on-any-president-on-the-national-debt/

Reagan did worse.----You are trying to use a blog as fact?---Just go look at the size of the debt and how much it has increased under Barack------And he is a very weak President

[olevetonahill]

How many GOP hawks are still supporting the F-35 that could end up costing more than $1 trillion and probably never be in combat?

You guys are OK with collective spending on the military industrial complex (ht: Oliver Stone) :)

http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison

You sir are a presumptuous idiot

[dwarthog]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/08/does-obama-have-the-worst-record-on-any-president-on-the-national-debt/

Reagan did worse.

Clearly an attempt by the Post to put lipstick and a dress on a pig that is the Obama presidency.

[Serenity Now]

----You are trying to use a blog as fact?---Just go look at the size of the debt and how much it has increased under Barack------And he is a very weak President

The percentages of % growth of national debt aren't factual?

I maintain that Reagan couldn't get the nomination in today's GOP?

[Serenity Now]

You sir are a presumptuous idiot

I'll defer on the idiot part. What is the presumptuous part?

[Serenity Now]

----You are trying to use a blog as fact?---Just go look at the size of the debt and how much it has increased under Barack------And he is a very weak President

Size is relevant but needs to be compared in relation to GDP and the actual debt. I'm all for cutting some spending. Where would you start? You'd start with food stamps. I'd start with our military that is larger THAN THE NEXT 7 NATIONS COMBINED.

[olevetonahill]

How many GOP hawks are still supporting the F-35 that could end up costing more than $1 trillion and probably never be in combat?


You guys are OK with collective spending on the military industrial complex (ht: Oliver Stone) :)

http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison


You sir are a presumptuous idiot


I'll defer on the idiot part. What is the presumptuous part?

You Presume to tell us what "WE" are ok with and then cant figure out what I'm referring to,Hence IDIOT.

[Serenity Now]

You Presume to tell us what "WE" are ok with and then cant figure out what I'm referring to,Hence IDIOT.

You and yours keep voting for those that do. The Oklahoma delegation is a treasure trove of right wing nut jobs. I like Tom Cole but the others are nothing short of Mary Fallin impersonators.

Again, I did not debate the idiot label. :|

[REDREX]

Size is relevant but needs to be compared in relation to GDP and the actual debt. I'm all for cutting some spending. Where would you start? You'd start with food stamps. I'd start with our military that is larger THAN THE NEXT 7 NATIONS COMBINED.---Fine lets cut military spending----Now what other programs are Liberals going to cut ?----It is stupid to keep spending and not see the coming disaster-----Please tell me the Liberal plan to solve the problem

[Serenity Now]

---Fine lets cut military spending----Now what other programs are Liberals going to cut ?----It is stupid to keep spending and not see the coming disaster-----Please tell me the Liberal plan to solve the problem

I think the "liberal" plan is to increase income. My thoughts are more bipartisan in nature. We should look at some of our income based things like capital gains and some of the loopholes that exist. But, we should also cut some spending. Bernie Sanders would be the most liberal and his goal is to revitalize the middle class.

[champions77]

I think the "liberal" plan is to increase income. My thoughts are more bipartisan in nature. We should look at some of our income based things like capital gains and some of the loopholes that exist. But, we should also cut some spending. Bernie Sanders would be the most liberal and his goal is to revitalize the middle class.

Revitalize the middle class? isn't that message getting a little tired as BHO has been telling that story for 6 1/2 years and it just keeps getting worse. You tell me Sir how over regulations, higher taxes, Obamacare requirements if you are an employer over 50, higher energy costs as coal is being pushed out, Keystone XL never approved, is helping the middle class? Tell me if old Bernie gets his way and increases taxes on the wealthy is going to result in more middle income workers being helped? Everything BHO does is to assist people's transition into dependency. Now when that middle income earner falls into dependency is when he will help you. Until then, he's your worst enemy.
Attacking business does not result in them hiring more workers.

Does the fact that the fewest number of workers in the work force since 1979 tell you anything about where the Dems stand on creating an environment conducive to job growth? The weakest post recession recovery in 80 years tell you anything?

[olevetonahill]

You and yours keep voting for those that do. The Oklahoma delegation is a treasure trove of right wing nut jobs. I like Tom Cole but the others are nothing short of Mary Fallin impersonators.

Again, I did not debate the idiot label. :|

And again you Presume to know How Myself and members of my Family vote. Idiot.

[REDREX]

I think the "liberal" plan is to increase income. My thoughts are more bipartisan in nature. We should look at some of our income based things like capital gains and some of the loopholes that exist. But, we should also cut some spending. Bernie Sanders would be the most liberal and his goal is to revitalize the middle class.----A Goal without a plan is a wish------------As usual Liberals have no clue and no plan -----The problem is SPENDING-----We need less not more------No way to tax your way out of this mess

[Serenity Now]

----A Goal without a plan is a wish------------As usual Liberals have no clue and no plan -----The problem is SPENDING-----We need less not more------No way to tax your way out of this mess

Sounds like supply side economics to me.

[REDREX]

Sounds like supply side economics to me.---Typical Liberal response----What is the Liberal plan?-----

[REDREX]

Guess we are not getting a Liberal plan-----What a shock

[olevetonahill]

Guess we are not getting a Liberal plan-----What a shock

He said INCREASE Taxes . That will fix everything.

[okie52]

The percentages of % growth of national debt aren't factual?

I maintain that Reagan couldn't get the nomination in today's GOP?

Hopefully the Reagan of today would've learned from his past mistakes of thirty years ago like his amnesty failure and deploying troops to Lebanon and wouldn't attempt to repeat them like many dems and pubs are still trying to do.

[Breadburner]

S N is getting peter slapped right and left.....

[REDREX]

S N is getting peter slapped right and left.....----Its fashionable to be a Liberal ---you let someone else do all your thinking for you

[champions77]

Size is relevant but needs to be compared in relation to GDP and the actual debt. I'm all for cutting some spending. Where would you start? You'd start with food stamps. I'd start with our military that is larger THAN THE NEXT 7 NATIONS COMBINED.

I'm ok with cutting the military, but not for the reasons that you and others cite, that we are 7 times bigger than everyone else etc. etc. I would cut the defense budget because I know it is full of fat, fraud, and waste, just like every other Federal program in existence today. And in doing so, will not compromise our strength or mission capabilities one bit.

Now, moving on to other programs. Do you think you could pass the word to your Democratic friends in Washington that to cease accusing the GOP of starving little kids and rolling Granny over the cliff the next time an elected official acts responsibly and proposes something to; 1) Determine if a Federal program is still doing what it was implemented to do at inception 2) If so, are the budget numbers of those particular programs in line with the number of citizens benefiting by said program? 3) Make department heads justify every dollar spent, from top to bottom, if they can't, they are removed. 4) Abolish "Baseline Accounting" Practices at the Federal Government. Baseline Accounting allows percentage increases every year in every federal departments regardless of need. Big reason that are federal spending has gone nuts through the years. 5) No more lazy folks sitting around the house waiting on their welfare checks. require that every able bodied persons do something in exchange for that payment, anything. Community service, cleaning up neighborhoods, painting federal properties. It might take some of that anger out of these folks you see in some of these poor neighborhoods because they have been trapped into a life of dependency all their life, a life of hopelessness and despair. Teach them how to work, and what it feels like to EARN that money. If not that, then mandatory two years of Military Service. I know it doesn't bother most Liberals to see these wasted lives, but it bothers me and it damn sure bothers them, whether some of them realize it or not.

Both parties have been responsible for billions if not Trillions in wasted tax payer funds in the last especially 50 years. By the time the Messiah leaves office US debt will be at 20 Trillion, with almost 431 BILLION spent in fiscal year 2014 alone just to pay the interest expense. But the Dems will tell you that the deficit has been cut. Who cares, the bottom line is the debt we have to pay interest on, and BHO has accumulated more of it than all the former Presidents combined.
So what do you think Serenity, do we have a deal?

[Serenity Now]

Sounds like a New Deal to me.

[yermom]

----Its fashionable to be a Liberal ---you let someone else do all your thinking for you

you mean like when the liberals decide who you can marry, which beer you can buy cold, and which religious symbols you get to have on your public property, or that you can't ban fracking locally?

oh, sorry that wasn't liberals

[REDREX]

you mean like when the liberals decide who you can marry, which beer you can buy cold, and which religious symbols you get to have on your public property, or that you can't ban fracking locally?

oh, sorry that wasn't liberals---No the ones that tell a person they have to buy insurance---oh wait that is a tax-------Or the ones that say don't enforce Federal laws-----Or the ones that try and force education standards on all states------The list goes on and on---What do you think is worse ? Beer laws or choosing not to enforce Federal laws?----Show me one example of Fracking doing any harm in Okla----Its only been going on for 60 or so years ---you can find one example

[okie52]

you mean like when the liberals decide who you can marry, which beer you can buy cold, and which religious symbols you get to have on your public property, or that you can't ban fracking locally?

oh, sorry that wasn't liberals

I'm sure Denton had every intention of compensating the mineral owners that were being denied the use of their property.

[REDREX]

I'm sure Denton had every intention of compensating the mineral owners that were being denied the use of their property.---That would be a taking by the Gov't correct-----------Go ask the people in upstate New York if they want Fracking----They all see the Penn. people doing wellan d they sit there with no jobs and no production

[champions77]

you mean like when the liberals decide who you can marry, which beer you can buy cold, and which religious symbols you get to have on your public property, or that you can't ban fracking locally?

oh, sorry that wasn't liberals

Yermom only in your world could have the US Constitution attacked from almost every angle right before your very eyes and you sit back whining about cold beer, homos marrying and the Ten Commandments. Gosh do you ever wonder how they ever got the tradition of swearing in the Presidents with their left hand on the Bible? Is that more of that "Separation of Church and State" you and your lib buddies swear the Framers meant? If your hero BHO had his way he would strike the 1st and 2nd Amendments from the Constitution as fast as he could down a cold one. Do you doubt that for a minute? If he could just silence that damn Fox New channel, heck he would have his state run media.

[okie52]

---That would be a taking by the Gov't correct-----------Go ask the people in upstate New York if they want Fracking----They all see the Penn. people doing wellan d they sit there with no jobs and no production

Yep. Ole cuomo banned it even though his own studies supported fracking

[Curly Bill]

Yermom only in your world could have the US Constitution attacked from almost every angle right before your very eyes and you sit back whining about cold beer, homos marrying and the Ten Commandments. Gosh do you ever wonder how they ever got the tradition of swearing in the Presidents with their left hand on the Bible? Is that more of that "Separation of Church and State" you and your lib buddies swear the Framers meant? If your hero BHO had his way he would strike the 1st and 2nd Amendments from the Constitution as fast as he could down a cold one. Do you doubt that for a minute? If he could just silence that damn Fox New channel, heck he would have his state run media.

But this would please yermom and his pals to no end - they revel in being victims. If they can turn the rest of into victims they'd be ecstatic.