SCOTUS-CARE 6-3

[Serenity Now]

Questions, comments, notes of discord?

[REDREX]

Looks like we are stuck with a bad law----Anyone that thinks this is going to lower healthcare costs is a fool

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We broken. REALLY broken.

[Eielson]

Roberts is a b*tch.

[REDREX]

Roberts is a b*tch.Roberts needs to apply the Constitution not worry about the legacy of his Court

[FaninAma]

The big winners are Big Insurance. I'm not sure Roberts did Obama and the Democrats any favors with this ruling. Now they own the healthcare issue and all of the developments that happen over the next 2 years....good or bad. I happen to think there will be a lot of bad news coming out regarding healthcare costs, insurance premium costs, doctor shortages, and deductible increases/surprises.

[REDREX]

The big winners are Big Insurance. I'm not sure Roberts did Obama and the Democrats any favors with this ruling. Now they own the healthcare issue and all of the developments that happen over the next 2 years....good or bad. I happen to think there will be a lot of bad news coming out regarding healthcare costs, insurance premium costs, doctor shortages, and deductible increases/surprises.---Correct-----I heard that the deductible for Bixby City employees is going from $500 per year to $7,000----That is going to really hurt those people

[REDREX]

Well at least we now know what's in it----Thanks Nancy

[Serenity Now]

#THANKSOBAMA

[REDREX]

#THANKSOBAMA---How can you think this law is good for the Country?

[badger]

As Mitt Romney noted in the 2012 debates, having a different president (and different Congress) is about the only way to overturn this law. Unless you expect activist judges to act according to your preference, don't expect SCOTUS to do Congress' dirty work.

I know this means another year of Obamacare, as the next election's not until 2016 -- the House/Senate does not have a veto-proof majority and Obama is guaranteed to veto anything that threatens his namesake legislation. This is the price the U.S. pays for what the majority voted for. I don't like high deductions from my paycheck any more than the rest of you. If there's any silver lining, it's that voters have a constant reminder of what these elected officials did once in office... and if you want voters to act, hit them where it hurts.

[Serenity Now]

In my experience, business and governmental entities are using this as an excuse to cut their overhead. These are not market forces that were unforeseeable regardless of Romneycare/SCOTUS-Care. Hillcrest a year or two ago cut a number of staff and blamed the fact that Oklahoma did not do the Medicaid expansion.

[REDREX]

In my experience, business and governmental entities are using this as an excuse to cut their overhead. These are not market forces that were unforeseeable regardless of Romneycare/SCOTUS-Care. Hillcrest a year or two ago cut a number of staff and blamed the fact that Oklahoma did not do the Medicaid expansion.---You need to broaden your experience----This is just another ill- conceived Gov't program that they have no idea what it will cost or do to the Country

[BoulderSooner79]

The big winners are Big Insurance. I'm not sure Roberts did Obama and the Democrats any favors with this ruling. Now they own the healthcare issue and all of the developments that happen over the next 2 years....good or bad. I happen to think there will be a lot of bad news coming out regarding healthcare costs, insurance premium costs, doctor shortages, and deductible increases/surprises.

That's what most the political analysts are saying. Had ACA been tossed, the onus would be on the pubs to come up with a better plan since they control congress. And the old plan is not going to fly with the voters. With ACA being upheld, the pubs can continue to harp on how bad it is without having to pen something better.

[Tear Down This Wall]

The big winners are Big Insurance. I'm not sure Roberts did Obama and the Democrats any favors with this ruling. Now they own the healthcare issue and all of the developments that happen over the next 2 years....good or bad. I happen to think there will be a lot of bad news coming out regarding healthcare costs, insurance premium costs, doctor shortages, and deductible increases/surprises.

Correct; add to that, their lobbyists. And, as usual, the middle class is stuck with the bill. Here, in the form of higher deductibles and narrower doctor networks.

[Serenity Now]

---You need to broaden your experience----This is just another ill- conceived Gov't program that they have no idea what it will cost or do to the Country

Thanks for the heads up. Those 20 years in health care and the MBA haven't done me any good.

[Tear Down This Wall]

---You need to broaden your experience----This is just another ill- conceived Gov't program that they have no idea what it will cost or do to the Country

Forget it. He doesn't own a business, so he'll never understand. Always the same with socialists: it's easier to spend other people's money than to earn your own.

Look at Greece and Venezuela; that will be America during my kids' lifetime, if not sooner. Problem, as Venezuela and Greece have discovered is, where to get the money when the "other people" finally run out of it or move away? Answer, so far: beg international banks and funds.

Actually, Greece and Venezuela don't actually care that they've run out of money. Their leaders are defiant about debt and their broken economies. It's someone else's fault, you know. Always is with socialists.

How many more Tina Turners will there be in the future?: http://world.time.com/2013/01/31/mister-taxman-why-some-americans-working-abroad-are-ditching-their-citizenships/

[REDREX]

Thanks for the heads up.
Those 20 years in health care and the MBA haven't done me any good.---Your the one that would know---- My 40 years of working for and owning companies ---all of which provided healthcare---As well as my MBA and JD----Have opened my eyes to the problems of any Big Gov't program----So hide and watch all the problems this thing will create

[Tear Down This Wall]

Thanks for the heads up. Those 20 years in health care and the MBA haven't done me any good.

No truer words were ever spoken.

[Serenity Now]

Since you are obviously smarter than me, what do you job creators propose that we do to assure that tens of thousands of working Americans don't go bankrupt from not having access to affordable health care?

It drives me crazy when I see a $25,000 air ambulance bill go against some $15/hour guy yet the same ambulance service will allow Blue Cross to pay $8,0000 and Medicare pay $6,500. It's the same way with hospital bills, the numbers are just larger.

I'm different from you guys because I don't propose that I have all the answers.

[SoonerorLater]

Since you are obviously smarter than me, what do you job creators propose that we do to assure that tens of thousands of working Americans don't go bankrupt from not having access to affordable health care?

It drives me crazy when I see a $25,000 air ambulance bill go against some $15/hour guy yet the same ambulance service will allow Blue Cross to pay $8,0000 and Medicare pay $6,500. It's the same way with hospital bills, the numbers are just larger.

I'm different from you guys because I don't propose that I have all the answers.

Why is it incumbent upon us (collectively speaking) to do anything?

[REDREX]

But Obamacare will solve all these problem right?---------What about the poor saps that now have a $5,000 plus deductible-----Or please tell me what to tell people that I will have to give them less coverage or they will have a "Cadillac Plan " and be taxed----------This stupid bill does nothing to address the real problems

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

---You need to broaden your experience----This is just another ill- conceived Gov't program that they have no idea what it will cost or do to the CountryIt's designed well by the left, to head us towards full-on single payer socialized medicine, in time.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Since you are obviously smarter than me, what do you job creators propose that we do to assure that tens of thousands of working Americans don't go bankrupt from not having access to affordable health care?

It drives me crazy when I see a $25,000 air ambulance bill go against some $15/hour guy yet the same ambulance service will allow Blue Cross to pay $8,0000 and Medicare pay $6,500. It's the same way with hospital bills, the numbers are just larger.

I'm different from you guys because I don't propose that I have all the answers.

That's the stupidest thing I've read yet. People go bankrupt for all sorts of reasons. It's not my responsibility to bail everyone out.

The short answer is simple: don't jughead your money and you won't go broke, no matter what the cause.

Also, your scenario does nothing but reinforce the problem we've already identified - Big Insurers. They won today, okay? We understand that.

Further, show me the financials of the air ambulance before you try to turn me against them. Everybody running a business has overhead. I know from selling the coverage that, at minimum, the liability costs for anything that moves through the air is high. Not to mention the cost of complying with regulation.

Sorry. Air ambulances aren't charities. Don't beef with them. Beef with the insurers and the politicians - of both parties - who protect them.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Why is it incumbent upon us (collectively speaking) to do anything?

Exactly.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Thanks for the heads up. Those 20 years in health care and the MBA haven't done me any good.SAU* has taught you well, unfortunately










*Saul Alinsky U.

[Serenity Now]

Why is it incumbent upon us (collectively speaking) to do anything?

Then why do we have cumpulsary auto insurance?

The system is broken. Romneycare does a good job of putting a finger in the hole. The Medicaid expansion was the way to go. Actually, the way to go was a single payer. That would have fixed everything.

[Serenity Now]

SAU* has taught you well, unfortunately










*Saul Alinsky U.

You mean the University of Oklahoma?

[REDREX]

It's designed well by the left, to head us towards full-on single payer socialized medicine, in time.---Like my Canadian friends say---- Their system works great unless you get sick-----I know two Canadians that had their fathers die waiting on open heart surgery

[REDREX]

Then why do we have cumpulsary auto insurance?

The system is broken. Romneycare does a good job of putting a finger in the hole. The Medicaid expansion was the way to go. Actually, the way to go was a single payer. That would have fixed everything.---You don't have to own a car---you have to buy health insurance

[Tear Down This Wall]

Then why do we have cumpulsary auto insurance?

The system is broken. Romneycare does a good job of putting a finger in the hole. The Medicaid expansion was the way to go. Actually, the way to go was a single payer. That would have fixed everything.

Compulsory auto insurance is to protect third parties from liabilities you might create in operating a motor vehicle.

You notice that there is no compulsory law requiring everyone to carry Comprehensive and Collision coverage. That's first party coverage, your own for the damage to your own car. The state could give a crap about your car being repaired.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Your comparison only makes sense if the state required Comprehensive and Collision coverage.

Understand insurance, please, before you comment on it. And, don't try to compare health insurance with property and casualty insurance. It's not the same animal.

[SoonerorLater]

Then why do we have cumpulsary auto insurance?

The system is broken. Romneycare does a good job of putting a finger in the hole. The Medicaid expansion was the way to go. Actually, the way to go was a single payer. That would have fixed everything.

We do not have compulsory Automobile Insurance. Nobody is forced to buy Auto Insurance because nobody is forced to drive a car.

[Serenity Now]

You're not forced to buy health insurance. You can pay the relatively minor penalty. Less than a ticket for driving without auto insurance.

[REDREX]

You're not forced to buy health insurance. You can pay the relatively minor penalty. Less than a ticket for driving without auto insurance.---Which makes Obama care an even bigger joke-----And guess what the penalty goes up over time

[Tear Down This Wall]

You're not forced to buy health insurance. You can pay the relatively minor penalty. Less than a ticket for driving without auto insurance.

What alternate universe are you living in? http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/acacalculator.cfm

When did a traffic ticket begin to cost thousands of dollars?

[REDREX]

What alternate universe are you living in? http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/acacalculator.cfm

When did a traffic ticket begin to cost thousands of dollars?---Don't confuse a Liberal with facts

[SoonerorLater]

You're not forced to buy health insurance. You can pay the relatively minor penalty. Less than a ticket for driving without auto insurance.

Then you are being forced to pay for not having health insurance which is unacceptable also.

[REDREX]

Then you are being forced to pay for not having health insurance which is unacceptable also.And you have to pay for your own Air Ambulance

[Serenity Now]

Tyranny!!!

[Serenity Now]

What alternate universe are you living in? http://taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/acacalculator.cfm

When did a traffic ticket begin to cost thousands of dollars?
$95 penalty in 14.

[SoonerorLater]

And you have to pay for your own Air Ambulance

I thought reasonable Air Ambulance rates were a Constitutional Right.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Then you are being forced to pay for not having health insurance which is unacceptable also.

Exactly. If I choose not to carry Comprehensive and/or Collision coverage on my automobile, the state doesn't make me pay a tax penalty. Any loss to my auto is first party, against me. It's my choice.

[REDREX]

IDIOCY!!!!!

[REDREX]

I thought reasonable Air Ambulance rates were a Constitutional Right.---I am sure Liberals do

[SoonerorLater]

Exactly. If I choose not to carry Comprehensive and/or Collision coverage on my automobile, the state doesn't make me pay a tax penalty. Any loss to my auto is first party, against me. It's my choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't necessarily have to buy liability insurance either if you post a surety bond. At least you used to be able to do that as impractical as it may be.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
SAU* has taught you well, unfortunately





*Saul Alinsky U.
You mean the University of Oklahoma?Thanks, David Boren

[rock on sooner]

This thread is a fun read....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This thread is a fun read....probably, for a clueless lib.

[Serenity Now]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
SAU* has taught you well, unfortunately





*Saul Alinsky U.Thanks, David Boren

Except boren was still in the senate when I spent my years in Norman.

[REDREX]

Except boren was still in the senate when I spent my years in Norman.-- ----I am just glad that Seminole Fats kid is no longer in the House

[olevetonahill]

probably, for a clueless lib.

Pretty much fun for a Clueless Conservative also :cheerful:

I have absolutely No clue about this ACA crap. Just what Yall mouth of at each other about.

[SCOUT]

Then why do we have cumpulsary auto insurance?

The system is broken. Romneycare does a good job of putting a finger in the hole. The Medicaid expansion was the way to go. Actually, the way to go was a single payer. That would have fixed everything.

I will be polite because I think you are a good counter point to many on this board. But, the fact that you made this argument makes me question your claim of 20 years in healthcare. In that time, I would assume you would understand the different facets of insurance. Fan lays them out plainly.

Second, single payer is the way to go if you are a healthy individual but certainly NOT if you work in healthcare.

[BoulderSooner79]

Pretty much fun for a Clueless Conservative also :cheerful:

I have absolutely No clue about this ACA crap. Just what Yall mouth of at each other about.

I'm clueless about ACA too - it's an implementation detail to me. I don't care if healthcare is fully private or fully socialist and I don't care which party is claiming they invented it. Bottomline is how much does it cost me and how good are the benefits and service. Over the last couple of decades, my costs have gone up every year more than inflation and the service has been chipped away at. This new plan may not help, but the old one needed some work. Sometimes, I don't think the politicians want to improve things - they just want to win the battle with the other guy.

[Serenity Now]

21 years. 3 degrees.

My point is that we were all dealing with the effects of people not having insurance. The initial plan was designed by the heritage foundation and implemented by Romney. Hardly a socialist foundation. Medicare is much more socialist in nature.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Pretty much fun for a Clueless Conservative also :cheerful:

I have absolutely No clue about this ACA crap. Just what Yall mouth of at each other about.There are clues. It has never been popular with the citizenry, and the democrats rammed it through anyway. Roberts is ruling the SCOTUS in an unlawful way, and we are majorly going downhill fast.

[hawaii 5-0]

I guess Justices Scolito and Thomas little private meeting with the Koch brothers didn't turn out so well.

The Supreme Count didn't just say Yes, they said HELL YES ! 6 - 3 Not even close.

Congress can improve the ACA if they choose to but I'm sure not holding my breath on that happening.


5-0

[TAFBSooner]

Since you are obviously smarter than me, what do you job creators propose that we do to assure that tens of thousands of working Americans don't go bankrupt from not having access to affordable health care?

It drives me crazy when I see a $25,000 air ambulance bill go against some $15/hour guy yet the same ambulance service will allow Blue Cross to pay $8,0000 and Medicare pay $6,500. It's the same way with hospital bills, the numbers are just larger.

I'm different from you guys because I don't propose that I have all the answers.

"Let them die!"

[Tear Down This Wall]

21 years. 3 degrees.

My point is that we were all dealing with the effects of people not having insurance. The initial plan was designed by the heritage foundation and implemented by Romney. Hardly a socialist foundation. Medicare is much more socialist in nature.

People still don't have health insurance. And, it's cost is still higher with a narrower set of doctors to see. And, the poor are still using the emergency room.

What ACA did was drive smaller health insurers out of the marketplace and force people to pay for coverages they don't need. A win-win for the largest insurers.

[olevetonahill]

"Let them die!"

Ya say that like its a BAD thing!

[REDREX]

I guess Justices Scolito and Thomas little private meeting with the Koch brothers didn't turn out so well.

The Supreme Count didn't just say Yes, they said HELL YES ! 6 - 3 Not even close.

Congress can improve the ACA if they choose to but I'm sure not holding my breath on that happening.


5-0---The Four Liberals on the Court don't even consider the Constitution ---All of their votes are political-----No idea what Roberts is thinking

[Serenity Now]

People still don't have health insurance. And, it's cost is still higher with a narrower set of doctors to see. And, the poor are still using the emergency room.

What ACA did was drive smaller health insurers out of the marketplace and force people to pay for coverages they don't need. A win-win for the largest insurers.

This was all a Koch Brothers/Heritage Foundation scam. Is that what you're saying?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

People still don't have health insurance. And, it's cost is still higher with a narrower set of doctors to see. And, the poor are still using the emergency room.

What ACA did was drive smaller health insurers out of the marketplace and force people to pay for coverages they don't need. A win-win for the largest insurers.Ah, a proper balance of Fascism and Socialism, to rilly rilly ramp up the economy

[FaninAma]

In my experience, business and governmental entities are using this as an excuse to cut their overhead. These are not market forces that were unforeseeable regardless of Romneycare/SCOTUS-Care. Hillcrest a year or two ago cut a number of staff and blamed the fact that Oklahoma did not do the Medicaid expansion.

Do you own a business?

[FaninAma]

21 years. 3 degrees.

My point is that we were all dealing with the effects of people not having insurance. The initial plan was designed by the heritage foundation and implemented by Romney. Hardly a socialist foundation. Medicare is much more socialist in nature.

Massachussetts has the highest insurance premiums in the country. They also have the highest per capita expenditures. An independent auditor estimated the increasing Medicaid costs in the state(which have quadrupled since Romneycare was enacted) will bankrupt the state by 2025. I am so glad we have a national healthcare plan modeled after that "successful" model. LOL>

[Serenity Now]

Do you own a business?

No.

[Serenity Now]

Maasachussets has the highest insurance premiums in the country. They also have the highest per capita expenditures. An independent auditor estimated the increasing Medicaid costs in the state(which have quadruppled since Romneycare was enacted) will bankrupt the stqate by 2025. I am so glad we have a national healthcare plan modeled after that "successful" model. LOL>

So the Heritage Foundation was wrong? Maybe they're wrong about supply side economics as well.

[FaninAma]

So the Heritage Foundation was wrong? Maybe they're wrong about supply side economics as well.

No they are infallible like all other political operatives.

[Eielson]

Do you own a business?

I sure do!

It's completely irrelevant for this discussion, as I don't have to pay anybody's insurance, but I just wanted to let the world know that I own a business!

[REDREX]

So the Heritage Foundation was wrong? Maybe they're wrong about supply side economics as well.---Again please show me where Gov't does a better job of creating jobs than free enterprise----Go ahead and show me an example from any country----I can hardly wait for you to show me the light

[Tear Down This Wall]

Do you own a business?

This question answers itself from his own words. Of course, he doesn't own a business.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Ah, a proper balance of Fascism and Socialism, to rilly rilly ramp up the economy

Yes. Again...Venezuela.

[FaninAma]

I sure do!

It's completely irrelevant for this discussion, as I don't have to pay anybody's insurance, but I just wanted to let the world know that I own a business!
Congrats.

[olevetonahill]

I sure do!

It's completely irrelevant for this discussion, as I don't have to pay anybody's insurance, but I just wanted to let the world know that I own a business!

Heh, I do to and its MINE and I MIND it LOL

[badger]

Welp, it's here for at least another year. Perhaps by the time lame duck is excused from service, we're figure out what's working in Obamacare and what's not and Congress/next president can act accordingly.

I fully expect changes regardless of whether an R or a D is in the Oval Office come 2017, because who uses health care the most? Old people. And who votes more than any other demographic in every election? Old people. Mess with their Medicare and you get booted from office

[REDREX]

Still waiting for the example of Govt creating more jobs than free Enterprise

[FaninAma]

This was all a Koch Brothers/Heritage Foundation scam. Is that what you're saying?
Really? Are you going to devolve into a mindless liberal parrot spewing out senseless drivel like this? If so you are setting yourself up for posters to ignore you and treat you like Sooner 8th.

[REDREX]

Really? Are you going to devolve into a mindless liberal parrot spewing out senseless drivel like this? If so you are setting yourself up for posters to ignore you and treat you like Sooner 8th.-- He needs to change his name to 8th light----Just as clueless but not nearly as big of an ***

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Welp, it's here for at least another year. Perhaps by the time lame duck is excused from service, we're figure out what's working in Obamacare and what's not and Congress/next president can act accordingly.

I fully expect changes regardless of whether an R or a D is in the Oval Office come 2017, because who uses health care the most? Old people. And who votes more than any other demographic in every election? Old people. Mess with their Medicare and you get booted from officeWe have spun outa control, girl. Your guess is as good as anyone's as to what's down the pike.

[BoulderSooner79]

Welp, it's here for at least another year. Perhaps by the time lame duck is excused from service, we're figure out what's working in Obamacare and what's not and Congress/next president can act accordingly.

I fully expect changes regardless of whether an R or a D is in the Oval Office come 2017, because who uses health care the most? Old people. And who votes more than any other demographic in every election? Old people. Mess with their Medicare and you get booted from office

Paragraph 1: That's the way things *should* work. But the cynic in me says the parties will just keep it as a wedge issue for use in the next election. Much easier to complain than to roll up the sleeves and get some work done.

Paragraph 2: Spot on. I'm doing my best to not need health care as I get older, but nature is relentless on this aging thing.

[Eielson]

Congrats.

Do you own a business?

[REDREX]

So the Heritage Foundation was wrong? Maybe they're wrong about supply side economics as well.

---Still waiting on the example of Big Gov't creating more jobs than the Private economy-----Did you ever think that the reason the US is a rich country could be because of Capitalism----ever had that thought?

[Serenity Now]

---Still waiting on the example of Big Gov't creating more jobs than the Private economy-----Did you ever think that the reason the US is a rich country could be because of Capitalism----ever had that thought?
Not sure when I promised that. Government can help. Roll back NAFTA. Offer tax incentives to being job creators.

[REDREX]

Not sure when I promised that. Government can help. Roll back NAFTA. Offer tax incentives to being job creators.--- How about have the Gov't get out of
the way and not try and "Help"

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

--- How about have the Gov't get out of
the way and not try and "Help"_issing into the wind, my friend.

[TAFBSooner]

---Again please show me where Gov't does a better job of creating jobs than free enterprise----Go ahead and show me an example from any country----I can hardly wait for you to show me the light

There is no place where government creates more jobs than free enterprise does. But there are times when it does - like the Great Depression. CCC and WPA created jobs when free enterprise couldn't or wouldn't. It's true that they didn't end the Great Depression - WWII did. But they kept body and soul together for millions of people. Liberals think that's a good thing - at least this liberal does.

But that argument is irrelevant to health care. Health care is more important than the automobile industry, for example. One can survive, even thrive in some places, without a car or truck. IF private industry had done the job, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Go ahead and show me where a liberal on this board has claimed that government, in general, does a better job of creating jobs than free enterprise.

[SicEmBaylor]

There is no place where government creates more jobs than free enterprise does. But there are times when it does - like the Great Depression. CCC and WPA created jobs when free enterprise couldn't or wouldn't. It's true that they didn't end the Great Depression - WWII did. But they kept body and soul together for millions of people. Liberals think that's a good thing - at least this liberal does.

The Mises Institute put out a great piece a few years ago on this subject: https://mises.org/library/world-war-ii-did-not-end-great-depression

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Good article, SicEm. Here's one I always liked, by Thomas Sowell on Hayek:

https://www.cis.org.au/images/stories/policy-magazine/1994-autumn/1994-10-1-thomas-sowell.pdf

[Since71ASooner4Life]

Looks like we are stuck with a bad law----Anyone that thinks this is going to lower healthcare costs is a fool


Only a liberal would argue that increasing demand for something would make the price of it go down :>)

They'll try anything to relabel what which makes up the core of their souls - a shameless passion for redistribution of that which belongs to others.