Brilliant Idea from Eric Striker

[CincySooner]

I ran across a summary of an interview by Jason Kersey, and was reading through it. One of the quotes really struck me as a brilliant idea. I mean... outstanding brilliant. As in, why has no one thought of this before. A multi-cultural elective would be fantastic. Send the future leaders from OU out into the world with a more global understanding of personal interaction. An no, the Core IV Non-Western Culture requirement wouldn't count. Taking world music won't instill a 21st-century mindset into an impressionable freshman or sophomore.


English is required. U.S. history is required. Government is required. Well why don't we make a multicultural class required? A lot of these kids coming in here don't know anything about other races. That's all.

http://newsok.com/eric-striker-uncut-the-oklahoma-junior-linebacker-talks-about-racism-at-ou-the-sae-video-and-his-identity/article/5402016

[FaninAma]

I ran across a summary of an interview by Jason Kersey, and was reading through it. One of the quotes really struck me as a brilliant idea. I mean... outstanding brilliant. As in, why has no one thought of this before. A multi-cultural elective would be fantastic. Send the future leaders from OU out into the world with a more global understanding of personal interaction. An no, the Core IV Non-Western Culture requirement wouldn't count. Taking world music won't instill a 21st-century mindset into an impressionable freshman or sophomore.



http://newsok.com/eric-striker-uncut-the-oklahoma-junior-linebacker-talks-about-racism-at-ou-the-sae-video-and-his-identity/article/5402016

I'd be all for it if it didn't turn into a course about bashing certain cultures while promoting the victimhood of others. Would they promise only to promote the positive aspects of each culture?

[KantoSooner]

It's quite possible to teach about cultures, including our own, warts and all without bashing. How could you possibly understand the US today (without a doubt the ultimate example to date of how to organize and run a huge, multicultural society) without understanding slavery, the fraught history of race relations and the genocide of American Indians for example? Likewise, I can get all groovy on Japan, where I lived for over twenty years, and still acknowledge the Rape of Nanking, the hideous colonization of Korea and the use of Native Taiwanese for target practice.
I'm unaware of any country or culture that is pure or without 'sin'.
I'd be all for a body of courses such as Striker suggests. If for no other reason than to help Americans appreciate what an interesting journey our country has taken and how the influence of African, and American Indian cultures, among others, make our culture today quite distinct from any other on earth.

But now we wander into the realm of the liberal arts and we all know that such study is worthless and a waste of time because, well, there are no 'liberal arts' stores where you can get a job after graduation.

I'm very proud that Eric Striker seems to have availed himself of the opportunity to awaken his mind and get a real education while at OU.

[Widescreen]

I'd be all for it if it didn't turn into a course about bashing certain cultures while promoting the victimhood of others. Would they promise only to promote the positive aspects of each culture?
I expect the answer to that question is No.

[Pride1Mom]

I took a course in different religions at Oklahoma City University, and it was very good. It basically showed that all religions were supposed to be based on peace and quieting of the human soul. Man is like any other animal: aggressive, jealous, protective of territory, etc. All religions try to make man into nicer humans by showing compassion towards others, but all I see is that religion is being used for war!!

[Tear Down This Wall]

I ran across a summary of an interview by Jason Kersey, and was reading through it. One of the quotes really struck me as a brilliant idea. I mean... outstanding brilliant. As in, why has no one thought of this before. A multi-cultural elective would be fantastic. Send the future leaders from OU out into the world with a more global understanding of personal interaction. An no, the Core IV Non-Western Culture requirement wouldn't count. Taking world music won't instill a 21st-century mindset into an impressionable freshman or sophomore.



http://newsok.com/eric-striker-uncut-the-oklahoma-junior-linebacker-talks-about-racism-at-ou-the-sae-video-and-his-identity/article/5402016

Stupid. Require finance and accounting, not another bullsh*t humanities/history/government course. Does Striker want to compete in the world or sit around waiting for someone to acknowledge that he's black and other people aren't black, and that history is full of people who are black and people who aren't black.

So, stupid. The curriculum for most majors is already watered down beyond belief. Stop watering it down.

If fact, I'd say, cut out history/government/humanities altogether and make college a two to three year proposition. Cut out the bullsh*t and cut right to the chase of the majors. Teach only the subjects necessary to help kids get jobs.

All of this stupid overreacting because some kids said "n*gger." Does Striker think his fellow students should all takes a Women's Studies class because Joe Mixon broke a girl's face? Or a Gay Rights class because he said faggot?

Hypocritical and stupid beyond reason.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I took a course in different religions at Oklahoma City University, and it was very good. It basically showed that all religions were supposed to be based on peace and quieting of the human soul. Man is like any other animal: aggressive, jealous, protective of territory, etc. All religions try to make man into nicer humans by showing compassion towards others, but all I see is that religion is being used for war!!

Really? Do you see Baptists in Texas forming armed militias and storming the Louisiana border towns, like Shreveport, and rounding up Catholics there to burn, rape, and decapitate unless they renounce their Catholicism and become Baptists?

Are Methodists hijacking planes and running them into buildings in major metropolitan cities and demanding that everyone become Methodist or die?

Are Presbyterians strapping bombs onto kids and women and sending them into Episcopalian churches during worship services?

Get real.

[ObiKaTony]

Stupid. Require finance and accounting, not another bullsh*t humanities/history/government course. Does Striker want to compete in the world or sit around waiting for someone to acknowledge that he's black and other people aren't black, and that history is full of people who are black and people who aren't black.

So, stupid. The curriculum for most majors is already watered down beyond belief. Stop watering it down.

If fact, I'd say, cut out history/government/humanities altogether and make college a two to three year proposition. Cut out the bullsh*t and cut right to the chase of the majors. Teach only the subjects necessary to help kids get jobs.

All of this stupid overreacting because some kids said "n*gger." Does Striker think his fellow students should all takes a Women's Studies class because Joe Mixon broke a girl's face? Or a Gay Rights class because he said faggot?

Hypocritical and stupid beyond reason.

Very well said...schools aren't even teaching American History without obvious bias and massive amounts of politics. We have taught that ALL cultures are equal when in fact they aren't. This would turn into a conservative, white, and American hate class creating more animosity. Schools are now teaching 'white privilege' classes which is in fact racist as hell, and small minded and this would follow suit. I have an idea for Eric and the rest of the idealsic students and the professors that are sucking off the tax payers and federal loan program: Teach the US constitution, start with that

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Striker's idea is good, but naive. With the assault on America being taught already in our schools, it would be likely an Overview of Multicultures class would be more of the same.

[Soonerjeepman]

Stupid. Require finance and accounting, not another bullsh*t humanities/history/government course. Does Striker want to compete in the world or sit around waiting for someone to acknowledge that he's black and other people aren't black, and that history is full of people who are black and people who aren't black.

So, stupid. The curriculum for most majors is already watered down beyond belief. Stop watering it down.

If fact, I'd say, cut out history/government/humanities altogether and make college a two to three year proposition. Cut out the bullsh*t and cut right to the chase of the majors. Teach only the subjects necessary to help kids get jobs.

All of this stupid overreacting because some kids said "n*gger." Does Striker think his fellow students should all takes a Women's Studies class because Joe Mixon broke a girl's face? Or a Gay Rights class because he said faggot?

Hypocritical and stupid beyond reason.

Striker is already down with gay rights...he had some HS classmate that made him "see the light" about gays...

but yes...I totally agree with you, Tony and Rush said...

[KantoSooner]

Guys, THANK YOU.
I don't think I could have made a better case for the necessity of liberal arts studies in a healthy society.

I am, however, puzzled by a recurrent theme in your posts. You seem to be extremely fearful that any examination of different cultures that includes American culture will devolve into a session of criticizing our country and most particularly WASP males. And that somehow these critques will be so compelling and powerful that no counter argument will be possible and our students will be so mentally vacant that they will instantly be won over to the We Hate America Club.
Stop being so damn brittle. Our nation and society are chock full of problems. Some of them of our own making. In totality, however, we've got a better thing going here than anywhere else...and this is a full size country, not some mini-state made up of people who all look alike. To be a fully active citizen, however, an individual needs to know what the game's about. You need to understand history, and government and something of the humanities. Otherwise, on the basis of exactly what will you judge policies or candidates upon whom you are called to vote? How will you even know how to defend our nation and culture?
A university is not a trade school; although many universities have allowed themselves to get herded in that direction. If you wish an uncluttered mind, you are entitled to craft your own educational path. Just don't call yourself a university graduate. It is not too much, however, for a university to demand a certain grounding in a broad array of disciplines. And in addition to math, at least one hard science and an applied science, I would include some number of hours in history/government/humanities.
There is only one thing that is sadder than an unemployed college grad and that's a mid-career engineer or CPA or other 'specialist' with a stalled career, lacking the tools to even understand why he's topped out.

[BoulderSooner79]

It would be a great class for posters to SF.com

[SoonerForLife92]

Sorry about Ya Striker, but the most people who take the easy *** music classes - upper and lower division humanities are the BLACK athletes. I've seen more in those classes than in my Native American studies classes, Native American language classes, human sexuality classes, and world religion class.

Also taking a non-western humanity class for upper and lower division, as well as additional humanities classes, is a requirement for most if not all majors. Tell your buddies to quit taking the easy "world music" type classes before you tell everyone else to.

Oh and the thing about frats not wanting you there? They don't want ANY guy who isn't in their frat at their parties. Unless, occasionally, they know a lot of people in the frat and are on a guest list. That's how it has always been my (your) time here. Has nothing to do with your skin color (to most people in most frats).

[Eielson]

Stupid. Require finance and accounting, not another bullsh*t humanities/history/government course. Does Striker want to compete in the world or sit around waiting for someone to acknowledge that he's black and other people aren't black, and that history is full of people who are black and people who aren't black.

So, stupid. The curriculum for most majors is already watered down beyond belief. Stop watering it down.

If fact, I'd say, cut out history/government/humanities altogether and make college a two to three year proposition. Cut out the bullsh*t and cut right to the chase of the majors. Teach only the subjects necessary to help kids get jobs.

All of this stupid overreacting because some kids said "n*gger." Does Striker think his fellow students should all takes a Women's Studies class because Joe Mixon broke a girl's face? Or a Gay Rights class because he said faggot?

Hypocritical and stupid beyond reason.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with TDTW. Seriously...almost word for word...as in, I was about to post, and now I might not because he said everything I wanted to say.

One thing I will add, though, is that there are already an obnoxious amount of gen-eds and humanities courses, and in those, there are already plenty of options to take "multi-cultural" type classes. The way things are set up, you'd almost have to go out of your way to completely avoid taking some kind of class about Native Americans and/or Africans/African-Americans. I think I tallied almost a semester's worth. There are really good odds that most of those SAE's on the bus took some kind of "African-American Studies" class. How'd that work out?

[swardboy]

I'm totally on board with Tony, TDTW, Eilson, and others who espouse that the trend in colleges and universities is way off base. It should go without saying that liberals have usurped the educational system in America, and Stryker just another proof of it.

[freshchris05]

http://i.imgur.com/HcnZI0C.gif

[badger]

Well why don't we make a multicultural class required?
Graduation requirements have already pushed most students into attend-five-years territory. Yet another class for students buried in loan debt required? Plus the class fees, required texts and fitting into your other required coursework schedule?

I like the idea, but I don't think it will work for the reasons listed above. The higher ed bubble is going to burst soon

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

So, stupid. The curriculum for most majors is already watered down beyond belief. Stop watering it down.

If fact, I'd say, cut out history/government/humanities altogether and make college a two to three year proposition. Cut out the bullsh*t and cut right to the chase of the majors. Teach only the subjects necessary to help kids get jobs.

Then how would they milk money out of the students?

When I was a freshman, OU added a foreign language requirement to all degrees. I was rather annoyed about it and went off on Colonel Sanders (my ChemE advisor). His response was that there was a very loud minority at the school that felt that students owed OU a percentage of all future wages above and beyond what you could get with a high school diploma. In other words, education should be like syndication residuals that they got paid on for the rest of lives.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Guys, THANK YOU.
I don't think I could have made a better case for the necessity of liberal arts studies in a healthy society.

I am, however, puzzled by a recurrent theme in your posts. You seem to be extremely fearful that any examination of different cultures that includes American culture will devolve into a session of criticizing our country and most particularly WASP males. And that somehow these critques will be so compelling and powerful that no counter argument will be possible and our students will be so mentally vacant that they will instantly be won over to the We Hate America Club.
Stop being so damn brittle. Our nation and society are chock full of problems. Some of them of our own making. In totality, however, we've got a better thing going here than anywhere else...and this is a full size country, not some mini-state made up of people who all look alike. To be a fully active citizen, however, an individual needs to know what the game's about. You need to understand history, and government and something of the humanities. Otherwise, on the basis of exactly what will you judge policies or candidates upon whom you are called to vote? How will you even know how to defend our nation and culture?
A university is not a trade school; although many universities have allowed themselves to get herded in that direction. If you wish an uncluttered mind, you are entitled to craft your own educational path. Just don't call yourself a university graduate. It is not too much, however, for a university to demand a certain grounding in a broad array of disciplines. And in addition to math, at least one hard science and an applied science, I would include some number of hours in history/government/humanities.
There is only one thing that is sadder than an unemployed college grad and that's a mid-career engineer or CPA or other 'specialist' with a stalled career, lacking the tools to even understand why he's topped out.

"...fearful...."

No. Wanting the youth to be educated in subjects that will do them, and the country, the most economic good in life is not "fearful." It's smart.

We already have whole generations now of kids with "grounding in a broad array of disciplines" serving me hamburgers and tacos at fast food joints, or sitting in call centers trying to sell the latest garbage pyramid scheme because they aren't smart enough to figure out that their bosses are frauds.

Striker, if he can't play in the NFL, sounds like he'll be one of them.

[KantoSooner]

Oklahoma has a very interesting higher ed complex of institutions, ranging from Tech Centers, through Community Colleges, regional 2 and 4 years schools and finally OU and OSU and their grad programs. it's an admirable answer for providing 'beyond high school' education and training to the citizens of the state and a trained workforce to employers in the state.

That said, we do no one a service by attempting to cram all educational functions into a single or into all the disparate institutions. And part, at least of the heat and light above reflects that.

A university education should, by definition, produce people who are broadly educated. Even if they go on to be brain surgeons, theoretical physicists, Broadway vocalists or historians of the Cult of Amun. That's what university does. In addition to your 'major' you learn other stuff. Hopefully to enrich your practice of your major; at the very least to give you some context.

If you don't want that. If you have no 'need' for that: Don't go to a university.

And I think what's happened is that, in pursuit of the prestige (?) of the university degree, a number of students have gotten into university programs who would be much better suited to other types of institutions. And perhaps those programs should be spun off from the universities. Perhaps that's what happens when the higher ed bubble bursts.

There are many courses of study that were never traditionally included at universities. Accounting. Architecture. Nursing. Drama. Dance. Performance music. Perhaps it's time for some or all of these to be spun off into their own specialized institutes. I note that the CPA board requires a BA/BS with a minimum of 150 hours of study with 75 or so in accounting itself. So, eliminating the 'fluff', you ought to be able to complete the 'core' course in 4 semesters or so. With summer school, call it 15 months, start to finish. If you spun off the Accounting school, there'd be no reason you couldn't redo the schedule so that a person could, if they were disciplined, march straight through. And you could make course work at such institutes incentivized by state scholarships due to the tangible nature of the body of knowledge gained. it's at least one logical approach we could take.

While it's nice to try and insist on an all inclusive 'academy', it may be that attempting to force broad and diffuse education on people who don't want it and will not actively engage in it is merely annoying to them, productive of no educational benefit to either them or the society as a whole and destructive to the mission of the university itself.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Then how would they milk money out of the students?

When I was a freshman, OU added a foreign language requirement to all degrees. I was rather annoyed about it and went off on Colonel Sanders (my ChemE advisor). His response was that there was a very loud minority at the school that felt that students owed OU a percentage of all future wages above and beyond what you could get with a high school diploma. In other words, education should be like syndication residuals that they got paid on for the rest of lives.

Totally agree with you and others about the cost and milking the students.

Even back in the 80s, I worked two jobs to get through college. I can't even imagine it today.

There has to be a niche somewhere in education where some outfit will finally break down and start post-high school colleges that only teach what is necessary. By my count, we've got at least two generation of kids who have been hoodwinked into thinking college is just a places where you go and get "open-minded" about bullsh*t academic philosophies.

If a kid isn't going to be a doctor, engineer, scientist, or something technical along those lines, they need to be put into two- or three-year programs where they are taught business skills. Things they'll need even if they never really own a business.

Teach them skills they'll need to not have the wool pulled over their eyes while engaging in regular life tasks such as the mortgage process, car purchase versus car lease, financial agreements, such as credit cards, etc.

The 2008 financial collapse was nothing but a huge picture of people not knowing what the f*ck they were signing or doing. More of that will come down the pike if we can't get a generation of kids to quit fixated on their skin color, religion, political affiliation and other crap that too many idiotic professors tell them are important.

Here is what life comes down to, no matter what color your skin or where you were born:
(1) CAN YOU PAY YOUR BILLS ON OR BY THE DUE DATE, AND FOR THE AMOUNT WHICH YOU OWE?
(2) CAN YOU FIND AND KEEP A JOB THAT ALLOWS YOU TO DO (1) YEAR AFTER YEAR, DECADE AFTER DECADE?

More humanities classes. Idiotic. Teach the kids how to be men and make a living.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with TDTW. Seriously...almost word for word...as in, I was about to post, and now I might not because he said everything I wanted to say.

One thing I will add, though, is that there are already an obnoxious amount of gen-eds and humanities courses, and in those, there are already plenty of options to take "multi-cultural" type classes. The way things are set up, you'd almost have to go out of your way to completely avoid taking some kind of class about Native Americans and/or Africans/African-Americans. I think I tallied almost a semester's worth. There are really good odds that most of those SAE's on the bus took some kind of "African-American Studies" class. How'd that work out?TDTW is correct about a lot, prolly most of the stuff he says. I will readily admit he comes up with head scratchers sometimes.

[KantoSooner]

No. Wanting the youth to be educated in subjects that will do them, and the country, the most economic good in life is not "fearful." It's smart.

.

Read my intervening. I think we would very well better serve the students, the state and the university itself by spinning off professional schools and cutting out all but what is needed for licensing. And leaving the university to education of those who are either idly wealthy or possessed of some strange drive for knowledge. It'd cost less, you'd get the same or greater volumes of trained workers and they'd be untroubled, mostly, by extraneous thoughts.

After all, modern physics was essentially invented by a second rate customs clerk. The airplane by a couple of rural bicycle mechanics. Academic training is not really necessary to accomplish things, even great things, in this life.

Now, that the personal computer was inspired through a combined study of ancient Hindu religious poetry, calligraphy and copious consumption of LSD whilst rambling around forests in Oregon, as classically collegiate as that sounds, should not be taken as a counter argument.

I mean, we do so well at predicting the future anyway, what could possibly go awry with an educational system that prepared students exclusively for the jobs of today?

One small example: let's say we get a true conservative government. (yes, probably a pipe dream, but indulge me). Said government does what true conservatives have been going about for at least three generations and actually succeeds in creating a tax system that both works and allows you to file on something the size of a post card. (and, such a system does exist. Check out Japan, never took me more than five minutes to fill out and file. Loved it.) What happens to all of our CPAs? Tax Lawyers? etc? The folks who went for one of the ultimate 'smart' jobs. One potential outcome would be, 'Outta work'. Middle aged. With zero reapplicable skills. Do I think that will happen? No. But it might. And it might be a nifty idea to not be overspecialized.

[KantoSooner]

The 2008 financial collapse was nothing but a huge picture of people not knowing what the f*ck they were signing or doing. .

And here I thought it was more about highly trained technocrats in huge banks and trading houses on Wall Street who were buying enormous 'asset packages' without the vaguest clue about what was in the bag and other highly specialized technocrats who were stuffing said 'asset packages' with piles of BS and selling them off to their half bright colleagues. All the while the highly trained, specialized and rigorously selected securities cops spent their time jailing Martha Stewart rather than following up on the repeated letters from mathematicians warning them that Bernie Madoff simply could not be generating the returns he was claiming. And trust me, Wall Street bankers are no one's idea of 'broad' people.
Huh. And to find out it was all on account of people signing revolving credit plans they didn't understand at Sears.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

And here I thought it was more about highly trained technocrats in huge banks and trading houses on Wall Street who were buying enormous 'asset packages' without the vaguest clue about what was in the bag and other highly specialized technocrats who were stuffing said 'asset packages' with piles of BS and selling them off to their half bright colleagues. All the while the highly trained, specialized and rigorously selected securities cops spent their time jailing Martha Stewart rather than following up on the repeated letters from mathematicians warning them that Bernie Madoff simply could not be generating the returns he was claiming. And trust me, Wall Street bankers are no one's idea of 'broad' people.
Huh. And to find out it was all on account of people signing revolving credit plans they didn't understand at Sears.people and institutions getting rid of crap financial deals thrust upon the mortgage lenders by the democrats in congress. It doesn't read like that's what you said there, but who's surprised?

[Eielson]

A university education should, by definition, produce people who are broadly educated. Even if they go on to be brain surgeons, theoretical physicists, Broadway vocalists or historians of the Cult of Amun. That's what university does. In addition to your 'major' you learn other stuff. Hopefully to enrich your practice of your major; at the very least to give you some context.

In an ideal world, we would take all these music, art, and cultural classes, and we'd leave OU as "well-rounded" individuals. In practice, however, it doesn't work, and that part of the system has been broken for years. I learned a lot at OU about being a more "well-rounded" individual, but that didn't come from the classroom. It came from interacting with a diverse student population.

Let's do what actually works.


If you don't want that. If you have no 'need' for that: Don't go to a university.

It's not that simple. Plenty of people don't want that, and have no need for it, but are required to do it in order to get the kind of career they desire.

[Soonerfan88]

Many universities do require a multicultural class for graduation and it is usually something that is already fit into your core courses. As a business student (not at OU), I was required to take either Multicultural Communication or International Business because it's a global economy and you have to understand how to work in it.

A lot of this started with the baby boomers declaring their children would do better in life and made them get a college degree even if the kid didn't want or need one. Vo-techs certificates, or whatever they are called today, and Associate of Applied Science degrees are all that are necessary for 75% of the workforce.

TDTW and Kanto are both right about the 2008 meltdown.

[SoCalBigRed]

Striker's idea is good, but naive. With the assault on America being taught already in our schools, it would be likely an Overview of Multicultures class would be more of the same.

Unfortunately, this is the ugly, brutal truth of it.

I don't trust anything being taught about "America" in our collegiate system. Sorry.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
Striker's idea is good, but naive. With the assault on America being taught already in our schools, it would be likely an Overview of Multicultures class would be more of the same.
Unfortunately, this is the ugly, brutal truth of it.

I don't trust anything being taught about "America" in our collegiate system. Sorry.I'm afraid in far too many cases nowadays, the assault takes place all the way through the school system K-12, as well as college.

[KantoSooner]

Quote Originally Posted by RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
Striker's idea is good, but naive. With the assault on America being taught already in our schools, it would be likely an Overview of Multicultures class would be more of the same.I'm afraid in far too many cases nowadays, the assault takes place all the way through the school system K-12, as well as college.

Okie Dokie. You vote? Vote for a different secretary of education. We have an open and responsive political system that runs the public schools. And it has been that way since we've had public schools. So, to lodge this sort of sour, systemic condemnation of our educational system is tantamount to a rejection of the entire American political experiment from the Founders on down.
I don't think you want to go there, but maybe you do. And, if so, please be so good as to propose, in some degree of detail, what you'd put in its place and how, with brute force being disallowed for stylistic reasons, you'd get there from here.

[badger]

Maybe it would help if the goal --- getting students to be outside their own comfort zone by learning and experiencing other cultures --- could be accomplished in a way that doesn't make students spend more time and money on additional course requirements.

Volunteer work, club membership, community outreach, attendance at museums, church, or fine arts events... make a big list of things students can do on a monthly basis to fulfill a "broaden your horizons" requirement. No additional tuition/fees required! No "hate America" indoctrination worries!

[graphster]

Fans of college football who hate most of the things that colleges represent and try to accomplish. Virtually no understanding of what higher education is, why it's important, and what role it plays in a liberal democratic society. Amazing.

Go root for the Dallas Cowboys whatever NFL team is most popular these days. You aren't fans of the University of Oklahoma, anyways. You're just here for the football, so go focus on professional football where that's all that matters anyways.

[graphster]

BTW, the "assault on America" isn't coming from the schools these days. It's coming from the Oklahoma state legislature and governor's office.

[KantoSooner]

the goal --- getting students to be outside their own comfort zone by learning and experiencing other cultures !

You obviously haven't been following the conversation, Badgie. There's a significant faction, perhaps even an overwhelming majority for all I know, who are of the opinion that this is not 'the goal' and should not be. Rather that higher ed should in no way challenge students to examine their values or beliefs instead operating in the mode of a tech manual or checklist. Preferably with as few 'meaningless' footnotes as possible.Optimally, perhaps, the whole thing could be done on-line in the form of work books.

[graphster]

You aren't the majority or a major faction. Virtually nobody thinks that. Thankfully.

[Tear Down This Wall]

BTW, the "assault on America" isn't coming from the schools these days. It's coming from the Oklahoma state legislature and governor's office.

Lay down the pipe and get into rehab, son.

[Tear Down This Wall]

This "getting the kids out of their comfort zone" is baloney. It is a cop out. If I go to work, mind my own business, pay my bills on time, and choose a safe place to raise my family, I'm doing the right thing. It isn't a "comfort zone" just because just because some faggoty academic wonk doesn't think there are enough gays and minorities around my family (although, my wife is Mexican - not Hispanic American - Mexican from Mexico; so, we get plenty of that nonsense from time to time).

The most laughable thing in these whole "comfort zone" arguments to me are that those making them completely ignore that fact that Asians come over here, take over a part of a town and become prosperous. The Asians never demand that we "study their culture" or "understand their culture." They could give a rip.

They are working their yellow butts off and banking the highest per capita income in the U.S. these days. And, they make sure their kids do the same at school. Ditto Indians, Pakistanis, and most of the recent African immigrants.

The only groups running around begging for people to "understand them" are the Black Americans and Hispanic Americans. If you sit in one place and just cry, "It's not fair!" all the time, you'll never get anywhere.

The Asians, Indians, new Africans, and Pakistanis are running circles around Black and Hispanic Americans, and much of White America as well. White America is full of lazy sluggards waiting for something to happen these days, and getting their increasingly-whiny as*ses kicked by the same Asians, Indians, new Africans, and Pakistanis.

Here's the only thing that needs to be understood: Shut up and study! And, study something that is actually useful to an employer, or that will give you the skills to start your own business - and employ the Black and Hispanic Americans who were too busy complaining about "fairness" to figure out how to own what you own.

[Tear Down This Wall]

And, I'll say more...

What of these black students who want to be "understood?" They are hypocrites. These are the type of people who would look at a successful Black American like Clarence Thomas and call him an "Uncle Tom." Why? Because he worked hard enough to get where he is, and doesn't brook the excuses of the black American blowhards like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

[KantoSooner]

Here's the only thing that needs to be understood: Shut up and study! And, study something that is actually useful to an employer, or that will give you the skills to start your own business.

Amen, brother!
But then have the common decency and self awareness to understand that you know nothing of government or philosophy, because you never studied them. So, when questions about governmental or political philosophy come up, kindly sit down, shut up and let those who studied such things take charge.

We had precisely such a system up to the advent of the GI Bill when, in a fit of pinko commie-ism, it was decided that maybe, just maybe, the average Joe, given the opportunity at higher education, could grasp the same broad learning that those folks with summer 'cottages' on Penobscot Bay did. Sorry to have wasted your time for the last 70 years. It was a silly idea anyway.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Amen, brother!
But then have the common decency and self awareness to understand that you know nothing of government or philosophy, because you never studied them. So, when questions about governmental or political philosophy come up, kindly sit down, shut up and let those who studied such things take charge.

We had precisely such a system up to the advent of the GI Bill when, in a fit of pinko commie-ism, it was decided that maybe, just maybe, the average Joe, given the opportunity at higher education, could grasp the same broad learning that those folks with summer 'cottages' on Penobscot Bay did. Sorry to have wasted your time for the last 70 years. It was a silly idea anyway.

Hey, dickbrain...my minor was Political Science, okay? Is that good enough for you? Just because I studied it - and, studied it more than most people - doesn't mean I have to check my brain at the door on behalf of people who shill for government programs and half-baked college courses, alright?

Further, I have a Juris Doctorate, so I understand how laws are made. Even setting aside the fact that I earned more PoliSci hours than most did, I also pulled back the academic curtain on Legal Oz and understand how it all works.

And, my wife is Mexican...technically, a minority. Although, from the day she came to America to now, she's never been one to sit around and wait for someone to "understand her culture." She and her sister hit the ground running and began a cleaning business that began with houses and evolved to cleaning businesses. And, they did ti barely speaking the language when they got here. And, in Mexico, the went to colleges that taught them business principals, not "understanding other cultures" or "how to whine like an American minority."

Therefore, I'm likely overqualified to speak. I'm the living and breathing example of taking in all of that PoliSci and Legal crap when I was young and thought it was important. Thank God experience in life and business gave me the common sense enough to eventually recognize that 99.9% of it was bullsh*t, that no one cares, and at the end of the day, you've got to put your dick to the grindstone and work to succeed if your last name isn't Kennedy, Bush, Gore, or Rockefeller.

So, you, sit down and shut up. I'm qualified enough academically to speak. I'm a business owner to boot, so I can speak as to what kids need to survive once they get out of school and have to support themselves. I've seen my wife and her sister succeed as immigrants in this country.

And, let me tell you, when I see a resume chock full of philosophy, humanities, history, government, and other like garbage, it goes into the trash can. I need - just as other businesses do - kids who understand business.

I don't have time to f*ck with kids and their philosophies. They change from generation to generation - but this remains the same: Bill are due when bills are due, for the amounts due. Can enough money be generated to cover them and the overhead of the business, with some profit over that to keep the business evolving and the doors open.

To do those things, I don't have to "understand different cultures." All I have to do is keep working my as*s off.

[TAFBSooner]

Hey, dickbrain...my minor was Political Science, okay? Is that good enough for you? Just because I studied it - and, studied it more than most people - doesn't mean I have to check my brain at the door on behalf of people who shill for government programs and half-baked college courses, alright?

Further, I have a Juris Doctorate, so I understand how laws are made. Even setting aside the fact that I earned more PoliSci hours than most did, I also pulled back the academic curtain on Legal Oz and understand how it all works.

And, my wife is Mexican...technically, a minority. Although, from the day she came to America to now, she's never been one to sit around and wait for someone to "understand her culture." She and her sister hit the ground running and began a cleaning business that began with houses and evolved to cleaning businesses. And, they did ti barely speaking the language when they got here. And, in Mexico, the went to colleges that taught them business principals, not "understanding other cultures" or "how to whine like an American minority."

Therefore, I'm likely overqualified to speak. I'm the living and breathing example of taking in all of that PoliSci and Legal crap when I was young and thought it was important. Thank God experience in life and business gave me the common sense enough to eventually recognize that 99.9% of it was bullsh*t, that no one cares, and at the end of the day, you've got to put your dick to the grindstone and work to succeed if your last name isn't Kennedy, Bush, Gore, or Rockefeller.

So, you, sit down and shut up. I'm qualified enough academically to speak. I'm a business owner to boot, so I can speak as to what kids need to survive once they get out of school and have to support themselves. I've seen my wife and her sister succeed as immigrants in this country.

And, let me tell you, when I see a resume chock full of philosophy, humanities, history, government, and other like garbage, it goes into the trash can. I need - just as other businesses do - kids who understand business.

I don't have time to f*ck with kids and their philosophies. They change from generation to generation - but this remains the same: Bill are due when bills are due, for the amounts due. Can enough money be generated to cover them and the overhead of the business, with some profit over that to keep the business evolving and the doors open.

To do those things, I don't have to "understand different cultures." All I have to do is keep working my as*s off.

I only went to engineering school, but somewhere along the line I learned NOT to put my dick to a grindstone.

[Soonerjeepman]

amen...

I will say, I got no problem "trying to understand another culture"...but guess what...I'm not changing my beliefs. Again, it's the liberal ideology that THEIR beliefs are the "right" ones. That MY beliefs are wrong. So when you (liberals) say kids need classes to "challenge their beliefs" what you are really saying is they need to CHANGE their beliefs.

I just laugh at that...again, true libs...your beliefs are okay as long as they align with ours....BULL$HIT.

[ObiKaTony]

Th problem with 'learning other cultures' is in this current academic environment professors are teaching the American Culture is evil, and creating animosity. I took well over 40 hours of American history classes and I couldn't help but feel is if I was a slave owner due to my blue eyes. I later learned (from books) this couldn't be further from the truth and the bullshi$ striker talks about is a result of him not respecting or perhaps ignorance of the current culture he resides in. This is the very best in the history of the world
To even suggest this, many will label will that person is a racist ...

The multicultural line is total crap, and it's meant to
shift to change the US. They are succeeding with immigration as assimilation is not part of the process (see south Texas and Cali). Fuc$ multiculturalism, it's an affront or liberty and freedom when enacted by academia...

[KantoSooner]

Why! TDTW, I seem to have annoyed you. What a shock to find that 'Dickbrain' is the best you muster.

And, since it appears that the key to your argument is the equivalent of flopping it out and seeing whose is longest, here we go: Poli Sci grad, Summa Cum Laude, JD (and let's be clear, nobody other than a complete d-bag refers to himself as a 'Doctor' out of Law School, that's reserved for LLDs, so don't self aggrandize), married to a Japanese woman for 18 years, voting Cherokee, formerly worked for other people running their businesses in Asia, now run my own in Oklahoma. Actually, our resumes seem remarkably parallel. I'd have assumed you to be a great guy had I not read your drivel for several years on here.

Here's a little secret about 'Business School'. it's a crock. Where I did undergrad, about 25% of the class ended up on Wall Street. They were Econ and Poli Sci and Psych majors. Those who couldn't get offers from investment banks went to Law School or Business School or 'The Government'. Mainly. I spent my career, to date, learning the technical background to the products we sold and how they were made. And negotiating 100% foreign ownership of our subsidiaries in countries that legally required a 'silent' local partner. And setting up training centers for workers who needed reinforcement on topics like why it's really important to wear shoes in a factory and how to show up at our company bus stop five minutes before the bus instead of five minutes after. And how to hedge against currency rate fluctuation. And so forth.

Now, I've had a weirder career than many, but the point is that very little of this could have been predicted by some 'Business Professor' thirty years ago. And I would have gotten nothing of any worth whatsoever from any 'Business' courses on how to deal with it.

Plasticity of mind has served me far better than a mastery of the UCC would have done.

That said, I'm all for hiving off schools like business from OU. Let them go be glorified Mr. Good Wrench training centers. There's a market for that product. Just as there has been for you, and me. I'm truly sorry your journey has left you bitter with the time wasted in your youth. Perhaps you should ponder the Zen monk on his trek to the deep North when he opined that it is the journey and not the destination.

[graphster]

I am interested in learning more about how one runs a successful business in an environment that is increasingly multicultural and diverse. It seems to me that, whether you're talking about your workforce, your customers, potential partners, etc..., that you'd have a pretty substantial competitive advantage if you were able to know a little bit about people from all different backgrounds and their culture. In fact, I'm pretty sure that almost every MBA program in the country would stress that sort of thing as a critical management skill. Generally, you aren't going to be very successful in today's business world if the only people you can relate to are other White males.

Of course, there's also a lot of talk now in the business community about how things like philosophy and the humanities are actually much better at teaching people how to think in creative ways that spur innovation, problem solving, and entrepreneurship, than traditional business classes are.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2006/06/the-management-myth/304883/

http://www.businessinsider.com/logitech-ceo-bracken-darrell-loves-hiring-english-majors-2013-6

http://www.businessinsider.com/11-reasons-to-major-in-the-humanities-2013-6

https://hbr.org/2011/03/want-innovative-thinking-hire/

[KantoSooner]

Look, as much as I am critical of a lot of what TDTW says, he has a bedrock point exactly right: your books must balance and you must make a profit or you're gone.
That said, manufacturing processes and bookkeeping just aren't that hard. If you don't have the school background on the latter, it can be picked up on the fly; and I'd start any new hire on the production floor as a matter of course.

After that, though, I'd look at your major markets and/or supply sources. Assign reading on those country's last 100 years history. Make it at least marginally fun: any decent movies? Do the food thing. If they are characterized by an unfamiliar religion, learn about it. CIA.gov is a great source. Get some phrase books and learn at least how to say 'hello' and 'thank you'. If unwashed taxi drivers can master pidgin in multiple languages, it can't be that hard. (and it can help. I got dumped at the wrong hotel in Zurich twenty years ago and the only guy I could finally find to talk to was an Ethiopian. In Japanese. Because he'd been a bar tout in Tokyo. He finally drove me to the right hotel.)
People are pretty similar the world over, you show some interest in them and their culture and the interest will be repaid.
Don't over program things. Two highest priorities: is the job candidate honest? Will they work hard? Then: Are they basically intelligent? Are they friendly and can you see them working in a group? You can get around pretty much all the rest.
At least that's worked for me.

[Eielson]

I think you need to learn more in college than just your subject. Things like English classes will help immensely in just about any field, and you'd better be able to pass a college algebra class. Additionally, you need to learn people skills, how to work in groups, and things of that nature. You don't learn those by reading a textbook in a classroom, though.

[Eielson]

I think you need to learn more in college than just your subject. Things like English classes will help immensely in just about any field, and you'd better be able to pass a college algebra class. Additionally, you need to learn people skills, how to work in groups, and things of that nature. You don't learn those by reading a textbook in a classroom, though.

SF won't let me edit my posts today...

Correction: You CAN learn how to work in groups in a classroom, but not in a textbook, and it comes in classes where group work is required (labs, lectures with group work/projects, difficult classes that you feel the need to join study groups for, etc.). The only humanities group work that happens is finding a group to take notes so that you only have to go to class once every 2 or 3 weeks.

[CincySooner]

Sigh... I'm sorry I even brought it up

(shrugs shoulders)

(heads for the door)

[birddog]

Sigh... I'm sorry I even brought it up

(shrugs shoulders)

(heads for the door)
It's your right to demand this gets moved out of the fball forum at this point, THEN head for the door.

[ObiKaTony]

Relative to debt (which is subsidized by federal loans which is why multicultural classes will be a bedrock for more liberal bias and spin despite Ericks and cincys brilliant idea) college just isn't paying off for more and more graduates. The unemployment rate is skyrocketing amongst graduates yet school loans keep going up-thanks federal govt. one of the next big bubbles will be the school loan bubble, and I believe colleges will be revamped to be more relevant to the 21st century. We need more votec programs teaching a specific study or craft. All you need to see is the oilfield. Thousand making 6 figures and many don't have degrees...

[EatLeadCommie]

You don't need a class to exercise common sense:

1- Treat everybody with respect regardless of their skin color, religion, etc, unless they actually do something to have that respect be undeserved. Not everybody deserves it, but they deserve the benefit of the doubt until demonstrated otherwise.

2- Don't use the n-word. Definitely don't use rap and black culture as an excuse to throw it out there just because "they call each other that." That's a copout. White folks can call each other micks and wops too, but that doesn't mean it carries the same meaning if a black guy calls an Irish or Italian guy that. Same goes with other derogatory terms for Mexicans, Asians, etc... I agree that we are overly sensitive about some labels as a society, but again-- common sense. I will say this, though. That poor SAE house mom getting ostracized for singing the lyrics to that stupid song was wrong, and an example of being overly sensitive.

3- Don't label a black kid "articulate" or "well-spoken" just because he doesn't sound like he's from the hood. I've been guilty of this until recent years when I realized I never used that to describe any white kid who didn't sound like trailer trash. It's condescending. We are all a product of our culture. Whether a kid talks like he's from the hood or the sticks shouldn't matter. It's all about how you carry yourself outside the manner in which you speak.

[ObiKaTony]

1). I agree with you entirely

2) does it apply to white kids singing along with rap songs or should they skip that word? My point being is that the PC police and the sanctimony is total garbage. If a white or black kid wants to say it, it's his God given right to say it, and 99 percent of the time there is no real racial angst, just ignorance. 'Mother fuc$er' takin literally?

3) I don't hear that much...


I'll add on 4 and 5

4). Stop institutionalizing racism. Having the BLACK congressional congress in the 21st century is disgusting and far more egregious than a white or black kid saying the n word

5) stop with affirmative action, on the merits there is nothing more racist that is socially acceptable. Don't say the n word! But by God judge this kid on his color for a school? Makes sense?

[SouthFortySooner]

My momma fed me 3 meals a day for the most part. Then the commercials began to tell me I needed to take this vitamin to get the 'Recommended Daily Allowance'. I struggled for a while with the idea my momma didn't give me what 'they' say was recommended. But, I got over it and have never taken a vitamin.

My family taught me multi-cultural lessons the same way. The idea I didn't get enough is something I'll just get over.

[EatLeadCommie]

Obi, regarding #2, singing along to a song is different (as I pointed out), but your concerns are a good reason why the phrase should just be scrubbed from the culture altogether. Regarding #3, look harder. It happens pretty much every time a black kid is interviewed after a game and doesn't sound like he came out of the hood. Regarding OU, the prime example this year was the "articulate" and "well-spoken" Perine. I think that so many people just take it for granted that we don't look for it. Again, this is something that occurred to me later in life when somebody pointed it out.

I agree on points 4 and 5, but to a lesser extent on 4. I understand why 5 was necessary at one point in time, but it hasn't been necessary for a while. We will always think in terms of color and race, and I think that's perfectly ok. We are all different and should embrace those differences while still taking actions that reflect our respect for one another. At the same time, we can't act like black folks don't face things on many days that my lily white butt will never have to. Moreover, the circumstances that drive poverty in the black community are still in part reflective of years of discriminatory public and private policy created by white folks. Yeah, slavery has been over for 150 years, but out of slavery came years of Jim Crow, segregation, etc... That stuff still has lasting consequences. It also explains why you continue to see a lot of self-segregation, be it in college campus lunchrooms or in things like the Congressional Black Caucus.

That is not, however, an excuse in this day and age to remain in bad circumstances forever or an excuse to blame others for one's inability to climb out of those circumstances. It's just something that is a factor and something that I will never have to deal with. I think that white folks can recognize that without the need to get defensive. I'm not defensive about it because I'm not personally responsible-- in whole or in part-- for any of that. Therefore, it is pointless to point the finger at others, particularly when the generation of people in power today (not speaking of Obama directly, but in generational terms) had nothing to do with the sins of the past. The circumstances exist and have existed for a black man to do anything in life he wants to do. The American Dream truly does exist for anybody who wants it.

[Widescreen]

White folks can call each other micks and wops too, but that doesn't mean it carries the same meaning if a black guy calls an Irish or Italian guy that.
I have no interest in using any of those terms. But it really gets on my nerves that it's really a 1-way street. If a black guy calls someone a Wop, no one would say anything about it. Because white guilt.

[Eielson]

I have no interest in using any of those terms. But it really gets on my nerves that it's really a 1-way street. If a black guy calls someone a Wop, no one would say anything about it. Because white guilt.

If the N-word makes black people feel the way words like white guilt and white privilege make me feel, I can understand why they would punch somebody in the throat.

[FaninAma]

If the N-word makes black people feel the way words like white guilt and white privilege make me feel, I can understand why they would punch somebody in the throat.

Why? What other people I couldn't GAS about call me has NO bearing on what I do or accomplish in my life. It does not affect my relationship with my family and the few close friends I care about. If anybody can show me where any minority is being denied a chance to succeed in this country(other than the perversion of ****ty public schools without the option of choice and low expectations from progressives) then I might reconsider my viewpoint. Until then I would kindly ask that Striker and others give it a F'ing rest.

[Soonerjeepman]

Why? What other people I couldn't GAS about call me has NO bearing on what I do or accomplish in my life. It does not affect my relationship with my family and the few close friends I care about. If anybody can show me where any minority is being denied a chance to succeed in this country(other than the perversion of ****ty public schools without the option of choice and low expectations from progressives) then I might reconsider my viewpoint. Until then I would kindly ask that Striker and others give it a F'ing rest.

yup...

[Eielson]

Why? What other people I couldn't GAS about call me has NO bearing on what I do or accomplish in my life. It does not affect my relationship with my family and the few close friends I care about. If anybody can show me where any minority is being denied a chance to succeed in this country(other than the perversion of ****ty public schools without the option of choice and low expectations from progressives) then I might reconsider my viewpoint. Until then I would kindly ask that Striker and others give it a F'ing rest.

I'm genuinely confused by this response.

My post was simply stating that it annoys the hell out of me when people say things like white guilt and white privilege. You're saying I shouldn't be annoyed by this, and then follow it up with your final sentence, which seems to indicate some annoyance from you? Like I said, I'm genuinely confused. I don't know if you misunderstood something, or if you're just contradicting yourself.

[FaninAma]

I'm genuinely confused by this response.

My post was simply stating that it annoys the hell out of me when people say things like white guilt and white privilege. You're saying I shouldn't be annoyed by this, and then follow it up with your final sentence, which seems to indicate some annoyance from you? Like I said, I'm genuinely confused. I don't know if you misunderstood something, or if you're just contradicting yourself.
I guess I misunderstood. If you meant that you are fatigued by the never ending focus on race and other divisive "equality" issues then I am right there with you. People need to quit looking for excuses and prioritize the things that are important to them like family and personal responsibility.

[birddog]

While some of you are here to discuss race relations it'd be nice if sabanball stopped by to give us his insight on sexual assault. Bama, the spotlight is on you now

[BoulderSooner79]

I saw a reference to the SAE incident in a fake SNL commercial Saturday. It was for the product "Brogaine" designed to combat hair loss of stressed out frat brothers.

"..the proprietary blend reverses the ravages of stress brought on by things like midterms, nerds ... and chanting the n-word in a viral video"

[mainline13]

...
there are no 'liberal arts' stores where you can get a job after graduation.



Maybe there should be! Any entrepreneurs out there?

Seriously, though, I really like what you said.

[Eielson]

Maybe there should be! Any entrepreneurs out there?

Seriously, though, I really like what you said.

I liked most of what he said, too. It sounds nice, and it works well on paper. It just doesn't in the real world.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Look, it will come down to this, because it already is coming down to this:

White males, Asians, Near and Middle Easterners, Indians, Pakistanis, and West African immigrants taking up the best jobs in the future because these are the groups whose kids study math-based, science-based, and computer-based disciplines.

The American Hispanics and Blacks will keep putting themselves behind the eight ball by studying subjects that have no real economic value to them. Although, the universities and community colleges will always happily take their money to continue to "teach" them how "oppressed" they are.

It's interest to note that California state colleges are already beginning to discriminate against Asian applicants, defending their rejection by saying there would be too many of them and not enough American Hispanics and Blacks enrolled in they took all qualified Asians who applied.

Truly, truly remarkable.