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SuperSooner
8/16/2004, 04:38 PM
Everytime there is a disaster, they act like they never expected it and oh boy, "rates are going to have to rise to pay for all this." HELLO! You're in the fuc*ing business of predicting and betting on the probabilities of these type of things happening. I'm sick of this whining. They gladly accept the premiums but never want to pay out a dime without bitching about it.

The Maestro
8/16/2004, 04:51 PM
And the cow just leaped over the moon!

I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!

There...I knew we'd agree someday!

Bourbon St Sooner
8/16/2004, 04:58 PM
Yeah I'm trying to buy a house and none of these go##amn 'insurance' companies want to even write a damn policy. For the ones that will write a policy, I'm going to have to bend over and grab my ankles. I think these a**holes are dividing up little parts of the country so they can raise rates.

SuperSooner
8/16/2004, 05:04 PM
I love what they did with the mold deal. They were taking it up the a$$ with all the mold claims so now they turned it around. I'm FORCED to buy a mold policy that only provides $5,000 of coverage and I have to pay $385 a year for it. I told my insurance guy I didn't want it and he says I have no choice. Allstate said the same thing.

Blue
8/16/2004, 05:07 PM
Word of advice- Go with a smaller and lesser known company. The big boys(i.e. State Farm, All state, and Nationwide) don't pay **** when it comes to paying for damages.

SuperSooner
8/16/2004, 05:09 PM
Word of advice- Go with a smaller and lesser known company. The big boys(i.e. State Farm, All state, and Nationwide) don't pay **** when it comes to paying for damages.

Well, I'm with Travelers, I guess they're a big boy. I did manage to hose them out of a roof on a hail claim though. Over $9,000 and I will definitely leave them before they get that much out of me in premiums.

Blue
8/16/2004, 05:12 PM
Gotta love some hail damage. Why else would I be in the hellhole that is Canton, Oh.

Frozen Sooner
8/16/2004, 05:23 PM
They gladly accept the premiums but never want to pay out a dime without bitching about it.


did manage to hose them out of a roof on a hail claim though. Over $9,000 and I will definitely leave them before they get that much out of me in premiums.

Fact: most insurance companies pay out more in claims and in policy service than they collect in premiums.

SuperSooner
8/16/2004, 05:39 PM
Fact: most insurance companies pay out more in claims and in policy service than they collect in premiums.

1. That is THEIR business, to pay claims. They think their business is collecting premiums and losing money in the stock market.

2. Bull****.

finance.yahoo.com

Allstate had nearly $6 billion in operating income last year and 1.8 billion the 2 previous years. Travelers made .8 Billion

Next you're going to tell me that part of that income is return on investments. I know that. That is another part of their business, making money with MY money so that when its time to pay, they have it.

Frozen Sooner
8/16/2004, 05:52 PM
1. That is THEIR business, to pay claims. They think their business is collecting premiums and losing money in the stock market.

2. Bull****.

finance.yahoo.com

Allstate had nearly $6 billion in operating income last year and 1.8 billion the 2 previous years. Travelers made .8 Billion

Next you're going to tell me that part of that income is return on investments. I know that. That is another part of their business, making money with MY money so that when its time to pay, they have it.

Just love sticking your foot in your mouth, don't you? You just answered your own statement. That's exactly what their business is. It's also their business to make sure that they're not paying exorbitant amounts to settle frivolous claims and not paying out claims for which they didn't legitimately contract.

Tell you what, Super. You're the guy who's told us all what idiots we are for having debt, so I assume that your home and auto are both free and clear. Drop your damn insurance if it's such a rip off.

SuperSooner
8/16/2004, 06:18 PM
Just love sticking your foot in your mouth, don't you? You just answered your own statement. That's exactly what their business is. It's also their business to make sure that they're not paying exorbitant amounts to settle frivolous claims and not paying out claims for which they didn't legitimately contract.


I don't see how that differs from what I said or how I stuck my foot in my mouth. Insurance companies wish to operate like a diode, only dollars coming in and none going out. They have forgotten their
primary purpose.

If you're referrring to my roof claim, their guy is the one that wrote the adjustment after the inspection. I was as shocked as I could be.



Tell you what, Super. You're the guy who's told us all what idiots we are for having debt, so I assume that your home and auto are both free and clear. Drop your damn insurance if it's such a rip off.

First, its something you have to do. It would be stupid to have an asset worth tens or hundreds of thousands and not insure it. So you have to play the game. Once your admit you have to play the game, you have no choice about the rules and the rules are made by lobbyists for the insurance company.

Its like this. My home is insured for replacement cost and THEY choose the value, I have no say in it, to get the highest premium they can. If it burns to the ground, instead of paying the $205,000 they're charging premiums for, we'll start at about $150k and work up from there with me having to get lawyers to negotiate it for me.

The mold ripoff is another thing I brought up which you have failed to address. They turned that around and not only raised the average Texas premium by 40-50% after excluding mold claims, but they tacked ON the additional worthless mold premium and force you to buy it. It is priced worse than that liability on a rental car.

They are a scam that take advantage of people in multiple ways and because you probably sell it or benefit from the sales, you think it is wonderful. I bet you try to add life insurance to every loan you make dont' you? That stuff is the biggest insurance ripoff of them all. If you were a true human being that gave a damn about your customers instead of bragging on here when you make a chicken**** little $1500 commission, you'd tell them to get a term policy to cover the loan, if it was even needed, and then advise them to pocket the difference each month and go out to dinner. How many times have you done that?

B) My home is not paid for and neither is my truck. My home is at 5.5% and I'd be foolish to pay it off. My Yukon is 0.0%, 100% TT&L. I'll take all the free money they'll give me bud. The difference between me and you is that I could write a check for both balances tomorrow.

Frozen Sooner
8/16/2004, 06:25 PM
By the way, according to Allstate's financial filings from form 10-k all numbers in millions:

Premiums from P&C business: $6146
Premiums from life and annuity business, including service charges: $533
P&C claims: $4527
Life and annuity claims: $426
Interest credited to policyholders: $460
Policy acquisition: $960
Operating costs: $728

Do the math yourself.

Frozen Sooner
8/16/2004, 06:29 PM
You know what, dude? You're so out of line with the bull**** you post I wonder if you even believe it.

I'm absolutely done with talking to you. You're a guy who got a little information once and decided you're an expert. You go on with your life and wonder why it is that everyone you interact with thinks you're an *******.

crawfish
8/16/2004, 07:38 PM
Here's what I think is criminal:

We have had Farmer's insurance for 15 years, home, life and auto. We've never made a late payment. However, Dell wrongly sticks us with a bad credit score on our last credit rating...which has since been disputed and removed...and lo and behold, Farmer's uses this as an excuse to raise our rates for the term by 80 bucks.

This is not to mention that three times, Farmer's has threatened to move out of our area because, *gasp*, people were making claims due to acts of God.

Our insurance agent is gold, and I'm loathe to leave him because he's got a severely handicapped child that costs (and will continue to cost) a great deal to care for. However, they have repeatedly made it known that loyalty and dependability count for absolutely nothing to them, and I get pretty tired of it.

p.s. I fully realize this rant has nothing to do with the main gist of the thread, and I apologize.

Frozen Sooner
8/16/2004, 07:49 PM
Yep, that is messed up. I completely agree that was BS on Farmer's part.

Beano's Fourth Chin
8/16/2004, 07:54 PM
If you were a true human being that gave a damn about your customers instead of bragging on here when you make a chicken**** little $1500 commission, you'd tell them to get a term policy to cover the loan, if it was even needed, and then advise them to pocket the difference each month and go out to dinner. How many times have you done that?

B) My home is not paid for and neither is my truck. My home is at 5.5% and I'd be foolish to pay it off. My Yukon is 0.0%, 100% TT&L. I'll take all the free money they'll give me bud. The difference between me and you is that I could write a check for both balances tomorrow.

You need a little break from the board, I think.

Scott D
8/16/2004, 09:16 PM
Ok...information from the side of the major insurance company 'big boys' as they are being called. My wife works in Customer Care for Allstate, that means she deals with agents who aren't doing their jobs properly, and customers or ex-customers who are upset over things that may or may not have made them ex customers.

I've noticed that generally most people whom file a claim of sorts thinks they are being hoodwinked by insurance companies in terms of payment for the claims. While in most cases claims are divided up into regions, you're still talking about a lot of claims being covered by one office. (Mind you I'm using Allstate as the model for this). For example my wife's office is responsible for all of Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana. If you consider the amount of claims filed for things in 3 states on a regular basis, you can see how they might get slightly backlogged. Once in that stage, people generally pursue the matter through the wrong channels by going via the agent. Generally your claim is handed over to a single agent in claims...all of your contact from that point goes through that individual. Generally speaking, your agent will tend to know about as much as you in terms of the claim.

Next, if your opinion is that your insurance company is only out for your premiium and cares not one whit about the customer, then the insurance company is not your problem, your AGENT is. Your agent is the face of the company to you the consumer, and if you are having problems, then you have the right to go to your agent with those problems.

Anyone you come into contact with a major insurance company outside of your agent generally has to deal with a very high volume of people on a day to day basis, they're not going to be as personable to or with you as an agent should be, but some people really enjoy helping people...that's why my wife continues to stay at her job instead of becoming an agent (she is more than qualified to be an agent based on experience and knowledge).

As for your situation crawfish, it might be a better idea to find out if more people in your area, whom have your particular agent especially are having some of the same issues with Farmers. If so, it might be a good idea to see if you folks can find out if your agent is willing or able to get the same position with another insurance company, thereby keeping him around and you being able to continue doing business with him. It's good to hear that kind of support for an insurance agent as there are some that are good people, some that care about their customers, along with those who are glorified used car salesmen who build up a client base, leave and sell the client files to another agent.

And Blue, Ohio sucks..plain and simple which is why you have problems there...I'd say a good percentage of agents there are used car salesmen types, and the insurance laws in Ohio are generally borderline ridiculous. I guarantee you that if you had issues with Allstate that your problem never came across my wife's desk....agents in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana fear getting a call from her.

Enrico Pallazzo
8/16/2004, 11:42 PM
My home is not paid for and neither is my truck. My home is at 5.5% and I'd be foolish to pay it off. My Yukon is 0.0%, 100% TT&L. I'll take all the free money they'll give me bud. The difference between me and you is that I could write a check for both balances tomorrow. You're awesome.

Freak.

picasso
8/16/2004, 11:49 PM
You're awesome.

Freak.

'04, don't argue with yourself.

jk the sooner fan
8/17/2004, 06:44 AM
The difference between me and you is that I could write a check for both balances tomorrow.

yeah ok......

of course you could write a check.....the fact that it would bounce as high as ........well something REALLY high......is another story

OUthunder
8/17/2004, 07:48 AM
Damn and its only Tuesday.

SoonerMason
8/17/2004, 09:05 AM
yeah ok......

of course you could write a check.....the fact that it would bounce as high as ........well something REALLY high......is another story
as high as Ricky Williams? :D

jk the sooner fan
8/17/2004, 09:08 AM
there you go......you're like a walking bank of metaphors and stuff.....

there's no doubt that insurance is a necessary evil.....its a gamble...but necessary nonetheless

GrapevineSooner
8/17/2004, 10:23 AM
Too often it seems that when people go off on rants about the insurance industry, they don't take into account that all insurance agencies are still competing against one another for your business.

And since it's very unlikely that all insurance agencies are in collusion with one another, there's a reason why they charge high premiums.

It still behooves them to keep their rates as low as possible to compete for your business. But it also behooves them to make sure they aren't going to lose their shirts when they have to pay out a claim.

Beano's Fourth Chin
8/17/2004, 10:27 AM
there you go......you're like a walking bank of metaphors and stuff.....

there's no doubt that insurance is a necessary evil.....its a gamble...but necessary nonetheless

Three types of insurance I always get:

1.) the free tire replacement from Discount tire (by the time the tires are worn out, I've usually replaced 3 of the 4 due to road hazards... houston roads)
2.) home owners.
3.) washer/dryer extended warranty.

Ones I usually get

1.)extended bumper to bumper
2.) full coverage on a car

Ones I never get
1.) any kind of electronic warranty at best buy or wherever.

jk the sooner fan
8/17/2004, 10:30 AM
Three types of insurance I always get:

1.) the free tire replacement from Discount tire (by the time the tires are worn out, I've usually replaced 3 of the 4 due to road hazards... houston roads)
2.) home owners.
3.) washer/dryer extended warranty.

Ones I usually get

1.)extended bumper to bumper
2.) full coverage on a car

Ones I never get
1.) any kind of electronic warranty at best buy or wherever.

wow, same here......you cant beat that road hazard warranty....i go thru goodyear but they pay for themselves

i ALWAYS get extended coverage on a car

never get credit life....never never never, and never a warranty at best buy, etc...

jk the sooner fan
8/17/2004, 10:30 AM
there you go......you're like a walking bank of metaphors and stuff.....



somebody please get the humor here, or else i'll have to change my very own comedic style......

crawfish
8/17/2004, 10:35 AM
somebody please get the humor here, or else i'll have to change my very own comedic style......
pity "heh".

WILDCAT NATION
8/17/2004, 11:02 AM
I think my feelings on insurance companies are well known...

I especially like the fact that someone with 5-10% body fat can still be considered "obese" when it comes to life insurance.



I think my wife is using my life insurance policy as a retirement plan...Once she paid everything off, she would have about 250K left over...

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 11:04 AM
never get credit life....never never never,

Believe it or not, there are situations where it's not a bad deal.

As with all things in life, something priced correctly is a good deal. Something priced incorrectly is a bad deal.

As it happens, I sell level term, permanent, and credit life. There are quite a few situations where a credit policy is more affordable and fits the needs of the consumer better than either the permanent or level term policy. Before I get accused of not being a human being :rolleyes: I make a MUCH smaller comission on credit life insurance than I do on level term. As in $2 compared to 90% of first year premium.

If you're under 40, though, not a smoker, and don't have a history of health problems then level term is usually the better deal. Again, it depends on how much the lender is selling it for. Never EVER purchase credit insurance through a dealership.

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 11:05 AM
somebody please get the humor here, or else i'll have to change my very own comedic style......

Well, I think that your comment was actually a simile.

But good try. ;)

Sooner_Bob
8/17/2004, 12:43 PM
I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever been duped by USAA . . . my only complaint is the minor differences in coverage from state-to-state . . .

In AZ we could get windshield replacement coverage, but not in NM . . . I'm hoping we'll be able to get it in Oklahoma.

SoonerBBall
8/17/2004, 12:56 PM
Well, I think that your comment was actually a simile.

But good try. ;)

You're right, it is a simile.

JK, if you would have said "You're a walking bank of metaphors," then it would have been a metaphor. Similes use like or as to make the comparison.

jk the sooner fan
8/17/2004, 01:22 PM
You're right, it is a simile.

JK, if you would have said "You're a walking bank of metaphors," then it would have been a metaphor. Similes use like or as to make the comparison.

banging head against desk.......

folks i know the diff between a similie and a metaphor.....that was part of the joke....sometimes dry play on word humor is lost in text.....

TexasLidig8r
8/17/2004, 01:25 PM
Having both defended... and prosecuted cases against insurance companies, I am amazed at the very effective spin jobs that insurance companies get the general public to buy.

For example, how often have we heard that its the "evil" trial lawyers and out of control juries (read.. YOU, the general public) that is responsible to ever increasing premiums. To counter this insidious danger to the industry, and thanks to strong lobbying efforts, tort reform is passed. Damages are capped, punitive damages are severely capped and the burden of proof is increased. In short, the insurance industry gets much of what it asks for and in return, our premium rates .. well... keep increasing.

Then.... the insidious MOLD claims become the cause of all evil. Well, the fact of the matter is, there is not one reported decision in Texas which attributes health deterioration to exposure to mold and there is not one court in Texas that will allow an expert to testify to this fact.

You are required by law to have insurance, at least on your car, and yet, have very little say in the rates you pay. Then, when you submit a claim, for the most part, the adjuster's job is to pay the very least amount possible all the while, a separate department of the insurance company is looking for loopholes in coverage to deny the claim.

Insurance companies, like all companies, are in business to make money. They make money by obtaining the most amount of revenue, diversifying their revenue stream, investing and by holding on to "their' money as long as possible.

caphorns
8/17/2004, 01:29 PM
Having both defended... and prosecuted cases against insurance companies, I am amazed at the very effective spin jobs that insurance companies get the general public to buy.

For example, how often have we heard that its the "evil" trial lawyers and out of control juries (read.. YOU, the general public) that is responsible to ever increasing premiums. To counter this insidious danger to the industry, and thanks to strong lobbying efforts, tort reform is passed. Damages are capped, punitive damages are severely capped and the burden of proof is increased. In short, the insurance industry gets much of what it asks for and in return, our premium rates .. well... keep increasing.

Then.... the insidious MOLD claims become the cause of all evil. Well, the fact of the matter is, there is not one reported decision in Texas which attributes health deterioration to exposure to mold and there is not one court in Texas that will allow an expert to testify to this fact.

You are required by law to have insurance, at least on your car, and yet, have very little say in the rates you pay. Then, when you submit a claim, for the most part, the adjuster's job is to pay the very least amount possible all the while, a separate department of the insurance company is looking for loopholes in coverage to deny the claim.

Insurance companies, like all companies, are in business to make money. They make money by obtaining the most amount of revenue, diversifying their revenue stream, investing and by holding on to "their' money as long as possible.

coming from an evil trial lawyer, this really means alot ;)

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 01:33 PM
Lidig8r-

I don't disagree with a single thing you've said other than that you're required by law to carry insurance on your vehicle. You are required by law to show financial resposibility by either obtaining liability insurance or by setting aside a certain amount of assets-at least, that's the law in most states. Not certain about Texas. Beyond that, if you don't choose to exercise the privilege of driving on public roads, then you don't have to carry insurance at all.

I absolutely agree that insurance companies are out to minimize their losses from claims payments and that they sometimes use shady tactics to do so. On the other hand, insurance fraud DOES happen, so in order to exercise due diligence for their stockholders they HAVE to do what they can to investigate claims they feel are suspicious.

100% agreed that insurance companies are in business to make money. There was a great opinion piece in the paper from Clarence (?) Williams (big libertarian, former chair of Economics at George Mason) about the difference between service provided out of care and out of greed, and why the greed service is usually more efficient.

FaninAma
8/17/2004, 01:38 PM
Three types of insurance I always get:

1.) the free tire replacement from Discount tire (by the time the tires are worn out, I've usually replaced 3 of the 4 due to road hazards... houston roads)
2.) home owners.
3.) washer/dryer extended warranty.

Ones I usually get

1.)extended bumper to bumper
2.) full coverage on a car

Ones I never get
1.) any kind of electronic warranty at best buy or wherever.

I actually bought the replacement insurance on our new digital camera. Guess what? My daughter and I turned over our canoe this summer while in Illinois and like a DA I didn't have the camera in a waterproof carrier. We took it back to Best Buy and they replaced it...no questions asked. I was impressed.

My wife has had two fender bender+ accidents and the insurance companies have always dealt fairly with us. It also helps that I have a very good friend who owns a body shop. :D

Bourbon St Sooner
8/17/2004, 02:30 PM
Not to jump on a dead horse, but I love the fact that SS said he had a mortgage at 5.5% and said he could pay it off but would be crazy to. Where are you earning 5.5% on your money these days? In the stock market? (I guess if it's the Hilary Clinton plan) In a savings account? CDs? Bonds?

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 02:49 PM
Well, long term the market returns about 11%. However, my point was that once you've decided that you're going to have a mortgage, you have to factor in ALL the costs before deciding that it's "stupid" to not borrow cheap money. Insurance is one of those costs.

The simple fact is that the guy didn't understand the concept of self-insurance. If you REALLY think that you're getting ripped off by an insurance company, then you self-insure-especially if you supposedly have enough money in your checking account to purchase your assets cash.

Frankly, having that much money in a checking account tells me that someone doesn't really understand what they're doing financially.

Anyhow, dude's not around to defend himself, so I won't pile on. It just irritates me when people throw out financial "truths" that they learned in some pop culture book and act like they have the solution for every family's financial freedom. It's just like reading a book on physics then deciding that you were competent to explain how the universe works in every situation.

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 03:04 PM
By the way, just a quick illustration:

Say I've got a person who wants to purchase a motorhome on a 10-year term. He wishes to increase his insurance to cover the amount of the loan. Assuming he's 40 and a smoker, a simplified-issue level term policy will cost him 2986.80. A credit insurance policy (assuming an interest rate of 7.85%) will cost him $1964.51.

Now, there's other factors to consider, of course. A level term policy will pay the face amount no matter how much is owed on the loan, while the credit policy (which is technically a declining term policy) will only pay the amount owed on the loan.

Again, each situation is different and requires some analysis. I try to present both options and let the consumer make his own informed choice.

That is, unless they say that I'm not a real human being. Then I couldn't give two ****s that their underinsured *** is going to put their family through a real financial hardship when they die. Statistics show that the majority of Americans are underinsured-and that the majority of Americans think that they have "plenty" of insurance.

WILDCAT NATION
8/17/2004, 03:21 PM
Couldn't they just sell the motorhome?

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 03:30 PM
Yes and no.

On a 120 month amortization, they're probably going to owe more on it than it's worth at some point.

That also assumes that they don't want to KEEP the motorhome. If you're properly insured, a death in the family won't create a drop in your standard of living. Having to sell off a recreational asset definitely qualifies as a drop in your standard of living.

WILDCAT NATION
8/17/2004, 03:32 PM
Are those rates you're quoting a one time fee or a yearly premium?



I'm wondering at what point it would be good for me to go ahead and croak so my wife can cash in...seems stupid to be paying 1400 bucks a year on a "Bet" that I will die before the house is paid off if I'm not actually gonna croak.

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 03:36 PM
Again, I'd like to stress that insurance needs are completely case-by-case, as are retirement needs.

I don't carry a lot of insurance, because I don't have any dependents. What insurance I do carry is enough to pay for my funeral expenses, some money to dispose of my encumbered assets, and enough to put my two nephews through college.

For someone with a wife and/or kids, I'd advise quite a bit more insurance than I personally carry. You want enough to at least pay off the car and the house, plus funeral expenses, plus some sort of loss of income for some term of years.

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 03:38 PM
Are those rates you're quoting a one time fee or a yearly premium?



I'm wondering at what point it would be good for me to go ahead and croak so my wife can cash in...seems stupid to be paying 1400 bucks a year on a "Bet" that I will die before the house is paid off if I'm not actually gonna croak.


Actually, the rates I quoted were the total of premiums over the entire term.

Heh. Yeah, one of the reasons why insurance companies are willing to write life policies is that people tend to not *want* to die. They throw in suicide and hazardous behavior exclusions for that reason.

WILDCAT NATION
8/17/2004, 03:40 PM
Hell, if the Hodgkin's wouldda got me, we would have finally won one on the insurance industry..we had taken out the policy like 8 months before I was diagnosed....would have been well worth it knowing my wife would be damn near a millionaire.

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 03:42 PM
Yeah, I still don't know that I'd classify dying as any sort of win...

On the other hand, you could purchase a life annuity from an insurance company. That's a policy that actually rewards you for living longer than they think you will. You get a periodic payment of X dollars until you die.

(Yes, I know that's a simplification.)

WILDCAT NATION
8/17/2004, 03:50 PM
Yeah, I still don't know that I'd classify dying as any sort of win...




But I have to wonder if I would get some satisfaction, if I knew I was screwed anyway, in knowing that I just got over on an insurance company for a half-mil.

I'm crazy like that...then again, if I'm gone tomorrow, I'm good with that...I figure all I'm gonna do the rest of my life is work anyway, and what fun is that?

Scott D
8/17/2004, 04:02 PM
Froz pretty much summed things up better than I could have without looking crosseyed at my wife for not going slower for my typing to keep up with her.

Pretty much, everyone should have life insurance, even if they are spouseless and/or childless...unless you are absolutely at odds with all of your relatives, then again, you can make just about anyone the beneficiary of your policy.

TexasLidig8r
8/17/2004, 04:09 PM
Froz.. good information from you.

Now, how about putting some teeth in some criminal laws pertaining to insurance fraud? Not simply overestimating losses.. but the cretins who set up automobile collisions, or make multiple claims where there is no loss, or conspire with others to make false claims.

Make an example of some and the fraudulent claims are more than likely to be significantly reduced.

Scott D
8/17/2004, 04:15 PM
Lid,

Putting in the teeth is from the legislative side of things...insurance companies would love nothing better than for there to be tougher legislation against those people.

Bourbon St Sooner
8/17/2004, 04:23 PM
Well, long term the market returns about 11%. However, my point was that once you've decided that you're going to have a mortgage, you have to factor in ALL the costs before deciding that it's "stupid" to not borrow cheap money. Insurance is one of those costs.

The simple fact is that the guy didn't understand the concept of self-insurance. If you REALLY think that you're getting ripped off by an insurance company, then you self-insure-especially if you supposedly have enough money in your checking account to purchase your assets cash.

Frankly, having that much money in a checking account tells me that someone doesn't really understand what they're doing financially.

Anyhow, dude's not around to defend himself, so I won't pile on. It just irritates me when people throw out financial "truths" that they learned in some pop culture book and act like they have the solution for every family's financial freedom. It's just like reading a book on physics then deciding that you were competent to explain how the universe works in every situation.


That's true about the long-term rate of return and that's the correct way to look at it. I was thinking about short-term, but if you're matching assets to liabilities you should compare the long-term return on investment to the cost of the long-term liability you are taking on.

Here's a question about self-insuring Frozen. As a mortgage lender would you allow someone to self-insure if you're holding their mortgage and how much in assets would you require them to put in some sort of trust or whatever?

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 05:14 PM
Scott-

Thanks for the props.

Lidig8r-

I'd love for there to be tougher laws on insurance fraud-from BOTH ends. I'd like to see tougher statutory penalites for twisting, misrepresentation, rebating, etc etc. as well as for people lying to their adjuster. There should be a STRONG fiduciary relationship between insured and insurer. It would really help if there was a regulation analogous to TISA or TILA for insurance companies to make comparison between insurers easier.

Bourbon-

Well, I'm not a mortgage lender myself, so I can't really answer that question. Most likely a mortgage company's response would be that they need to set aside the ACV of the home in an escrow account or something, and you get the money back when the note is paid off. Still a better deal than paying monthly non-recoverable premiums if you never get back how much you pay in.

ultimatesooner1
8/17/2004, 05:41 PM
Most likely a mortgage company's response would be that they need to set aside the ACV of the home in an escrow account or something, and you get the money back when the note is paid off. Still a better deal than paying monthly non-recoverable premiums if you never get back how much you pay in.

unless your house burns down and you lose your house + all of your personal prop + have to rent another place to live until you rebuild or unless some kid trips and falls on your property and you end up with a 300k liability claim

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 05:44 PM
Like I was saying-IF you never get back how much you pay in.

Me, I like insurance. I have homeowner's coverage. Well, the association has homeowner's. I have a condo form for my personal property.

WILDCAT NATION
8/17/2004, 07:10 PM
I don't mind the insurance near as much as the unexplained 35 % increases in premiums the year after you sign with a company...after making no claims...Almost as if they lowball you to get your business, then screw you in the end.

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 07:31 PM
They actually can't do that. It's called rebating.

Rate increases are computed across the board and must be approved by each state's insurance comissioner. The company must submit evidence of their claims experience to justify a hike in rates.

However, there's an interesting thing called Capture Theory which discusses the phenomenon by which regulatory comissions and boards become subservient to the industry which they are supposed to regulate. There's some debate as to whether that's happened in insurance.

stonecoldsoonerfan
8/17/2004, 08:21 PM
There's some debate as to whether that's happened in insurance.

you mean...there's actually some doubt about it? :confused:

Frozen Sooner
8/17/2004, 08:25 PM
Hey, I didn't say which side of the debate I'm on...

I would agree that in many jurisdictions, insurance commissioners have been captured by insurance interests. It's part of the whole "distributed cost/concentrated benefit" externality concept.

Beano's Fourth Chin
3/10/2005, 01:24 PM
B) My home is not paid for and neither is my truck. My home is at 5.5% and I'd be foolish to pay it off. My Yukon is 0.0%, 100% TT&L. I'll take all the free money they'll give me bud. The difference between me and you is that I could write a check for both balances tomorrow.

I've heard that those cost $43,000. Is that true?

Mjcpr
3/10/2005, 01:38 PM
I've heard that those cost $43,000. Is that true?
Somebody posted the other day that they paid about that for theirs, so yeah, I guess it is.

That's a lot of money for a car isn't it?

DCSooner
3/10/2005, 01:38 PM
WTF?

yermom
3/10/2005, 02:18 PM
dangit beano

C&CDean
3/10/2005, 02:25 PM
$43,000? How many nickles does it take to make that many green backs?

Howzit
3/10/2005, 02:27 PM
The really bad insurance companies just send you nickels back.

DCSooner
3/10/2005, 02:28 PM
You guys are SSSSSSSSSSSSssssssssooooooooooooopppppper!!!

well, some of ya.

Fugue
3/10/2005, 02:30 PM
is everyone finally on board? I thought I was takin crazy pills for a second.

Howzit
3/10/2005, 02:31 PM
what?

Fugue
3/10/2005, 02:35 PM
huh?

jk the sooner fan
3/10/2005, 02:42 PM
hey, speaking of change, i'd give a nickel to anybody who could give me tips on my golf swing

Tear Down This Wall
3/10/2005, 03:00 PM
On Insurance, mold, hail, etc.:

First, as has been mentioned earlier, if you own your home or car free and clear, quit bitching and just don't buy the insurance.

My guess is that pretty close to 0% of us fall into that category. Plus, even if you did, do you have the money lying around to replace the house completely if it did burn to the ground, get demolished by a tornado, etc. Doubtful.

Second, there has never been a time when a property insurance policy form covered mold. From the time water damage began to be covered, mold damage has always been excluded.

What happened to cause the mold hysteria was some wise *** plaintiffs attorney did pulled a slick semantics job during a trial in one of the most liberal counties in Texas (very near Austin). All of the sudden there was a $32 million judgement for a simple mold claim that should have been denied out of hat.

Eventually, the judgement was almost totally vacated by the Texas Supreme Court. In the meantime, insurance company actuaries had to assume that each home insured was a potential $32 million claim - because, surprise, surprise - anytime you mix oxygen and a little moisture you might get mold and sue your insurance company.

Out of this episode, a cottage industry of "mold remediators" sprang up. Their gag is to enter any house that might have oxygen and moisture in it, and a panicky, hypochondirac owner, clad in a space suit and tell them they had mold. For such antics, they usually charged in excesss of $10,000.

The insurance industry decided not to pay the unlicensed, Halloweed dress up/"mold remediator" industry and changed the Homeowners form nationwide to exclude not just mold, but now in addition "organisms" etc., etc., etc. They also limited what they would pay the Lost In Space-costumed "mold rememdiators".

However, the panicky, hypochodriacs combined with their costumed "mold remediators", and most desperate plaintiffs' attorney are still attempting to fil lawsuit under the old policy form, claiming the mold damage occured way back when - (pre-2002).

Therefore, as long as the idiots continue to sue for those things, you will continue to pay high rates for a few more years until it completely dies out (if it ever does, SEE continuing asbestos litigation for a similar model.).

Finally, if you are the type of person who files a claim every time a pellet of hail hits your roof just because your neighbor did and managed to squeeze $10,000+ out of their insurer, you deserve the high rate you pay.

Oldnslo
3/10/2005, 04:12 PM
Odds and ends:

Last time I checked, Travelers was the largest P & C insurer in the known Universe. Since St. Paul bought a chunk of Travelers, this may have changed. Neither of those companies uses my services, the bastards.

I was in way tight with Auto Club Insurance Company, RIP. It operated, consistent with industry norms, on about a 2% profit margin. That's after everything was paid. Everything. ACIC was bought by a publicly traded corporation, Commerce General. I don't know the new numbers, but I do know that CGI's stock is doing just fine, thanks.

Nobody has mentioned deductibles.

Oh, I found mold in my son's bedroom. I called my insurance company. Now, I knew that the mold was excluded, but I also knew that I could get the carrier to figure out where the problem was caused. They checked the plumbing and then got an engineer out to inspect the house. The charges for that? About 2 years' premium. They're still making a profit on the Weintraubs, but at least I've gotten some value in return.

C&CDean
3/10/2005, 04:13 PM
psssst. we're not really talking about insurance companies here. we're talking about nimrods who get baned and then post under another handle....

Howzit
3/10/2005, 04:17 PM
heh.

TexasLidig8r
3/10/2005, 04:21 PM
Hell... if we're still talking about insurance...

Anyone interested in some child support insurance?

Oldnslo
3/10/2005, 04:51 PM
who the hell has time to keep up with puppets?

OklahomaTuba
3/10/2005, 05:19 PM
I know this is off subject...

But AMEX homeowners for me is like $400 a year. It was less than half the other guys.

Scott D
9/5/2007, 03:07 PM
This is more entertaining than the latest tripe.

C&CDean
9/5/2007, 03:20 PM
Oh no you didn't just dredge up this POS...

Scott D
9/5/2007, 03:22 PM
even you have to admit this POS is more entertaining than doleo v. soonerus.

Hamhock
9/5/2007, 03:25 PM
even you have to admit watching paint dry is more entertaining than doleo v. soonerus.


i agree

C&CDean
9/5/2007, 03:43 PM
Cleaning shart stains out of my tighty whiteys is more entertaining than that.

SicEmBaylor
2/25/2009, 05:10 PM
Bump.