This is what our new Leach Clone thinks is a big time recruit?

[Tear Down This Wall]

A kid with no offers: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Adrian-Hardy-161524 There will be no arguing whether stars matter here, because he has none.

Lincoln Riley's tweet afterward: "BOOM 832!!! Big-time day! We WILL NOT be deterred-"

Yes, that's true, Lincoln...not many schools (that matter) are going to deter us from taking on recruits with no stars. Plenty of these type of recruits normally end up at the North Texases of the college football world...if they decide not to take those exciting Stephen F. Austin State offers that eventually get laid out in front of them.

Again, two years max on this lot of coaches. Then, it's negotiating the high price buyout for a coach we've kept extending into the 2020s.

[Eielson]

Pretty good athlete.

Not a very good QB prospect, but that's irrelevant, as that's not the position he'll be playing in college.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

A kid with no offers: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Adrian-Hardy-161524 There will be no arguing whether stars matter here, because he has none.

Lincoln Riley's tweet afterward: "BOOM 832!!! Big-time day! We WILL NOT be deterred-"

Yes, that's true, Lincoln...not many schools (that matter) are going to deter us from taking on recruits with no stars. Plenty of these type of recruits normally end up at the North Texases of the college football world...if they decide not to take those exciting Stephen F. Austin State offers that eventually get laid out in front of them.

Again, two years max on this lot of coaches. Then, it's negotiating the high price buyout for a coach we've kept extending into the 2020s.heh

[8timechamps]

A kid with no offers: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Adrian-Hardy-161524 There will be no arguing whether stars matter here, because he has none.

Lincoln Riley's tweet afterward: "BOOM 832!!! Big-time day! We WILL NOT be deterred-"

Yes, that's true, Lincoln...not many schools (that matter) are going to deter us from taking on recruits with no stars. Plenty of these type of recruits normally end up at the North Texases of the college football world...if they decide not to take those exciting Stephen F. Austin State offers that eventually get laid out in front of them.

Again, two years max on this lot of coaches. Then, it's negotiating the high price buyout for a coach we've kept extending into the 2020s.

He'll have stars. He's just hasn't been evaluated. My guess is he'll come in around 3 stars once the services look at him.

As for Riley, he did more (recruiting) in the few days he was in place (for the last class) than Huepel had done in almost a year. I'm going to actually give the guy a chance to prove himself. And if Hardy ends up being a big time player (he's a freakish athlete that played wherever his team needed him, including QB, which is why he wasn't evaluated), you're going to have to eat some crow.

[8timechamps]

Pretty good athlete.

Not a very good QB prospect, but that's irrelevant, as that's not the position he'll be playing in college.

All of the services assumed he was looking to play QB, and didn't evaluate his tape (mostly because he only played a year at QB). The kid has great size and speed for a WR, so I think he'll end up a solid player.

[Tear Down This Wall]

He'll have stars. He's just hasn't been evaluated. My guess is he'll come in around 3 stars once the services look at him.

As for Riley, he did more (recruiting) in the few days he was in place (for the last class) than Huepel had done in almost a year. I'm going to actually give the guy a chance to prove himself. And if Hardy ends up being a big time player (he's a freakish athlete that played wherever his team needed him, including QB, which is why he wasn't evaluated), you're going to have to eat some crow.

Hmm. Other recruits already have stars. I wonder why that is? Rushing and passing for 600 yards last year...that's pretty lofty. Hard to imagine recruiting services looking past that many yards, eh? And, on a team that went 5-5 and missed the playoffs in spite of some yet unproven/untapped "freakish" athleticism. Maybe it was the combination of running and passing for about 60 yards a game that got them to the 5-win plateau.

I think the only thing "freakish" about this whole scenario is that we apparently have a coach who still thinks he's recruiting for a Conference USA school...sorry, Conference USA 2.0 school, aka the "American" Athletic Conference. Wouldn't want to confuse it with the Canadian or Mexican Athletic Conferences.

"They see me as a good wideout but they are going to try me as a quarterback," he said. "I'm ok with moving from quarterback. I started out at receiver when I was younger and then they moved me to quarterback.

"I talked to all the coaches, Gundy and Simmons, they like my size."

Hmm. Yeah. I'll just bet there is a shortage of 6'3" receivers who are already playing receiver and have already been evaluated. If this is what Gundy has fallen to in the decade since the his recruiting of AD - and a glimpse of what this Leach WR coach from Wazzu considers talent - we may only have to endure one year with this coaching staff.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Jeez, I hope you are SO wrong!

[Eielson]

Hmm. Other recruits already have stars. I wonder why that is? Rushing and passing for 600 yards last year...that's pretty lofty. Hard to imagine recruiting services looking past that many yards, eh? And, on a team that went 5-5 and missed the playoffs in spite of some yet unproven/untapped "freakish" athleticism. Maybe it was the combination of running and passing for about 60 yards a game that got them to the 5-win plateau.

I think the only thing "freakish" about this whole scenario is that we apparently have a coach who still thinks he's recruiting for a Conference USA school...sorry, Conference USA 2.0 school, aka the "American" Athletic Conference. Wouldn't want to confuse it with the Canadian or Mexican Athletic Conferences.

"They see me as a good wideout but they are going to try me as a quarterback," he said. "I'm ok with moving from quarterback. I started out at receiver when I was younger and then they moved me to quarterback.

"I talked to all the coaches, Gundy and Simmons, they like my size."

Hmm. Yeah. I'll just bet there is a shortage of 6'3" receivers who are already playing receiver and have already been evaluated. If this is what Gundy has fallen to in the decade since the his recruiting of AD - and a glimpse of what this Leach WR coach from Wazzu considers talent - we may only have to endure one year with this coaching staff.

You seriously think Gundy can't recruit?

LOLOLOLOLOL

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Looking at the video he reminds me a lot of Travis Wilson. One thing that was cracking me up about him if he chooses to play QB is he is one of those guys who can pump fake 15 yards down field and people still jump.

[cvsooner]

Hmm. Other recruits already have stars. I wonder why that is? Rushing and passing for 600 yards last year...that's pretty lofty. Hard to imagine recruiting services looking past that many yards, eh? And, on a team that went 5-5 and missed the playoffs in spite of some yet unproven/untapped "freakish" athleticism. Maybe it was the combination of running and passing for about 60 yards a game that got them to the 5-win plateau.

I think the only thing "freakish" about this whole scenario is that we apparently have a coach who still thinks he's recruiting for a Conference USA school...sorry, Conference USA 2.0 school, aka the "American" Athletic Conference. Wouldn't want to confuse it with the Canadian or Mexican Athletic Conferences.

"They see me as a good wideout but they are going to try me as a quarterback," he said. "I'm ok with moving from quarterback. I started out at receiver when I was younger and then they moved me to quarterback.

"I talked to all the coaches, Gundy and Simmons, they like my size."

Hmm. Yeah. I'll just bet there is a shortage of 6'3" receivers who are already playing receiver and have already been evaluated. If this is what Gundy has fallen to in the decade since the his recruiting of AD - and a glimpse of what this Leach WR coach from Wazzu considers talent - we may only have to endure one year with this coaching staff.

Hmmm. Let's see, should I take your overblown opinion that worries incessantly over how many stars a ranking system gives a kid versus the evaluation of an actual football coach with a proven track record? Boy, that's a tough one.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Jeez, I hope you are SO wrong!

Yeah. Me, too. But, we're now down to offering kids that no one else is looking at...and, pretending it is some kind of recruiting genius. SO, there's that.

Maybe there's something we're not seeing. Let's see...we're getting smaller on defense. Maybe skinnier at WR is the way to go now. I'll admit, it's hard to keep a finger of what drives record-breaking 8-5 C-USA 2.0 squads and 3-9 Pac-12 squads. Those coaches obviously see value in unheralded players.

My problem is that I keep forgetting that it's not really the wins, or using the talent available on the roster for the run game, that are important, but setting passing records and being perceived as having a "wide open" offense.

Who knows? Maybe in addition to pilfering lightly noticed recruits before Stephen F. Austin can sink their hooks into them these new coaches on the offensive side of the ball can convince Stoops to stop punting as much on 4th Down like their old mentor Leach. I mean, it's just another down.

[BoulderSooner79]

...
Who knows? Maybe in addition to pilfering lightly noticed recruits before Stephen F. Austin can sink their hooks into them these new coaches on the offensive side of the ball can convince Stoops to stop punting as much on 4th Down like their old mentor Leach. I mean, it's just another down.

Would have saved a 'W' in the OSU game.

Too soon?

:nevreness:

[Tear Down This Wall]

Would have saved a 'W' in the OSU game.

Too soon?

:nevreness:

Nah. In a week where we a "celebrating" the commitment from a recruit no one else is recruiting and our school president, coach, and athletic director allowing the football team to call the shots, it's probably the perfect time for it!

[8timechamps]

Hmm. Other recruits already have stars. I wonder why that is? Rushing and passing for 600 yards last year...that's pretty lofty. Hard to imagine recruiting services looking past that many yards, eh? And, on a team that went 5-5 and missed the playoffs in spite of some yet unproven/untapped "freakish" athleticism. Maybe it was the combination of running and passing for about 60 yards a game that got them to the 5-win plateau.

I think the only thing "freakish" about this whole scenario is that we apparently have a coach who still thinks he's recruiting for a Conference USA school...sorry, Conference USA 2.0 school, aka the "American" Athletic Conference. Wouldn't want to confuse it with the Canadian or Mexican Athletic Conferences.

"They see me as a good wideout but they are going to try me as a quarterback," he said. "I'm ok with moving from quarterback. I started out at receiver when I was younger and then they moved me to quarterback.

"I talked to all the coaches, Gundy and Simmons, they like my size."

Hmm. Yeah. I'll just bet there is a shortage of 6'3" receivers who are already playing receiver and have already been evaluated. If this is what Gundy has fallen to in the decade since the his recruiting of AD - and a glimpse of what this Leach WR coach from Wazzu considers talent - we may only have to endure one year with this coaching staff.

I don't know how much you really follow recruiting, but for the purpose of this discussion I'm going to assume you don't really follow it that closely.

Let's look at the numbers for a minute; how many high schools are there in this country? According to US News, there are about 19,400. Let's assume that half have football programs (which is a very conservative number), so we'll say 9,500. Now, let's say that each team has an average of 8 seniors that play significant time (again, a very conservative number), so that makes 76,000 senior football players each year. You could probably say there are over 100k, but we'll stay conservative.

There are 4 major recruiting services (247Sports, ESPN, Rivals & Scouts, Inc). Each of those services typically employ roughly 25 analysts (guys that actually look at film and evaluate/rate players). So, that's 100 analysts.

Each analyst is assigned 7,600 kids to evaluate. Based on that extremely conservative number, maybe you can see why every kid in the country doesn't have a rating.

That's just looking at the numbers issue. But, in reality, there are far more factors at work. The services don't start mass evaluations until the spring (which we are just starting). They also don't evaluate every player in the country. A lot of it is on the high school to get the kids name out, and if it's a smaller school (or playing in a lower class), it's possible the kid goes unrated, or never receives an offer.

There have been SO MANY recruits OU has offered over the years that didn't have any rating when they were offered. There have been just as many that committed. There's also been a lot that didn't have offers from anyone else, or ratings from the services, and they committed to OU only to pick up their rating and more offers after the fact.

Hopefully you now have a better understanding why most high school players don't have ratings, especially right now.


As for this kid specifically, you really have no clue what you're talking about. None of us know what the coaches were looking for, or what they saw/discussed that made them want the kid. We do know that they know a lot more than you (or me) about him, and they liked him enough to offer.

We also know (factually) that Cale Gundy can recruit, so you're making comments that are just baseless.

Like I said, if this kid comes in and plays as expected, you're going to look pretty foolish. You should at least wait until there's something to complain about before complaining.

[8timechamps]

Yeah. Me, too. But, we're now down to offering kids that no one else is looking at...and, pretending it is some kind of recruiting genius. SO, there's that.

Maybe there's something we're not seeing. Let's see...we're getting smaller on defense. Maybe skinnier at WR is the way to go now. I'll admit, it's hard to keep a finger of what drives record-breaking 8-5 C-USA 2.0 squads and 3-9 Pac-12 squads. Those coaches obviously see value in unheralded players.

My problem is that I keep forgetting that it's not really the wins, or using the talent available on the roster for the run game, that are important, but setting passing records and being perceived as having a "wide open" offense.

Who knows? Maybe in addition to pilfering lightly noticed recruits before Stephen F. Austin can sink their hooks into them these new coaches on the offensive side of the ball can convince Stoops to stop punting as much on 4th Down like their old mentor Leach. I mean, it's just another down.

Wrong, again. Just because a kid doesn't have offers doesn't mean "no one else is looking at" them. Eric Striker had ZERO offers when OU offered. If only he turned out to be a good player for us!

[cvsooner]

The sheer numbers mean word of mouth and recommendations from high school coaches ("hey, you've got to see this kid") they know and trust mean way more than the ratings services. I mean, I look at some of the tape and you have no idea who they're racking up highlights against. If I gave you Samaje Perine's tape against Kansas, as opposed to Baylor, or heck, even Tulsa, how would you rate him?

(Tulsa held him to his season low 3.3 yds per carry, btw).

[8timechamps]

The sheer numbers mean word of mouth and recommendations from high school coaches ("hey, you've got to see this kid") they know and trust mean way more than the ratings services. I mean, I look at some of the tape and you have no idea who they're racking up highlights against. If I gave you Samaje Perine's tape against Kansas, as opposed to Baylor, or heck, even Tulsa, how would you rate him?

(Tulsa held him to his season low 3.3 yds per carry, btw).

I don't think many people realize how much of the recruiting hype starts at the high school. Nowadays, high schools have recruiting departments (they may not be officially titled that way), and the coaches send out material to the schools and services. If a school doesn't do that (and there are a lot of smaller schools that either don't have the manpower, or just don't do it), then it's up to the kid (or parents) to do it...if they don't, then they just don't get noticed.

I coach at the high school level (I don't work at the school, it's just something I started doing a few years ago), and I work with seniors every year on their recruiting material. If a kid wants to get his name out there, it requires that kind of process.

[8timechamps]

247 Sports has updated their rating for Hardy and given him 3 stars. Still waiting on Rivals/Scouts/ESPN

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

247 Sports has updated their rating for Hardy and given him 3 stars. Still waiting on Rivals/Scouts/ESPNAs long as East Texas State or Centenary don't find out about him.

[Soonerjeepman]

I don't think many people realize how much of the recruiting hype starts at the high school. Nowadays, high schools have recruiting departments (they may not be officially titled that way), and the coaches send out material to the schools and services. If a school doesn't do that (and there are a lot of smaller schools that either don't have the manpower, or just don't do it), then it's up to the kid (or parents) to do it...if they don't, then they just don't get noticed.

I coach at the high school level (I don't work at the school, it's just something I started doing a few years ago), and I work with seniors every year on their recruiting material. If a kid wants to get his name out there, it requires that kind of process.

My kid played baseball....5-16 his Sr year...that was the most wins in 4 years...the total of the other 3 was less than 5. They sucked. A Jr made all state 1st team last year...my son ended up getting a 'ship to a pretty good D1 juco, Jayhawk league. The coach that recruited him went to UCM the TOP D2 baseball school and says he has great potential (pitcher). My son's HS stats are not world beaters, in fact I honestly was surprised they offered....but he was 6'3 185 long arms and legs. NO stars...no nothing.

We did all the promoting his Sr year. Had 3 offers from D1 Juco in Ks.

So, it's not all about hs stats...just saying I agree with 8time...

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I just want to say one last thing about this thread. Some coaches have earned the right for you not to question their talent evaluation (SOSjr at WR, BJW at DE). Our new WR coach has broken 2 NCAA receiving records with walkons (including Ryan Broyle's career record). It probably isn't enough for this board, but for me I'm willing to trust his judgement until proven otherwise.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I just want to say one last thing about this thread. Some coaches have earned the right for you not to question their talent evaluation (SOSjr at WR, BJW at DE). Our new WR coach has broken 2 NCAA receiving records with walkons (including Ryan Broyle's career record). It probably isn't enough for this board, but for me I'm willing to trust his judgement until proven otherwise.

This coach hasn't proven anything except that in an offense that throws the ball 60-70 times a game anyone in a uniform will catch a lot of footballs. It means nothing. Wazzu was 3-9; 2-9 versusu FBS competition.

I'm sure all of the Wazzu fans are just pleased, though, with their 3-9 season because their offense put the ball in the air enough times to break some receiving records.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Let's understand something, we hope our coaches are here to win champions, not set offensive records. Here is the difference between a championship program and Wazzu/ECU:

Ohio State: Passing efficiency ranking - 2
409 attempts
260 completions
12 interceptions thrown
3707 yards
42 touchdowns

Wazzu: Passing efficiency ranking - 29
771 attempts
510 completions
18 interceptions thrown
5732 yards
45 touchdowns

ECU: Passing efficiency ranking - 41
637 attempts
402 completions
11 interceptions thrown
4835 yards
31 touchdowns

We have hired run-of-the-mill garbage running or helping run offenses that will prevent us from being a championship team. Small school have to run tricked up offenses and defenses because they can't recruit well enough to run balanced offenses. And, most of them are still terrible.

It's sad that we've traded our school's traditional power status for small school offense and defense. The 8-5 record doesn't lie. Neither did Wazzu's 3-9 and ECU's 8-5. Mired in mediocrity, we went out and hired mediocrity.

And, now, they are looking under rocks for players, like small schools have to do, instead of chasing the best players in the country. It's embarrassing.

[cvsooner]

Wazzu's biggest problem was no D, it wasn't offense (a Mike Leach team? Who'dathunkit?)

That said, they lost by a field goal to Rutgers, a TD to Oregon, a point to Cal...no, it wasn't a terrific season, but still. You've already declared this season a bust, so why bother 'splaining this to you? Your name belies your attitude...looks more like you're putting up walls.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We be undefeated for the next 6 months! ENJOY!

[Tear Down This Wall]

Washington State - Scoring offense, #45
Oklahoma - Scoring offense, #20

Wazzu had more problems that defense.

If our head coach thinks the way out of his on the field problems is to take his mediocre set of QBs and WRs and rely on them, he's in for another long season with five losses...or, more.

[8timechamps]

Comparing Wazzu to OU is like comparing a BMW to a Kia (no offense meant to anyone that owns a Kia).

On athletic talent alone, OU blows Wazzu away in every category. There's absolutely no way to look at what Wazzu has done and make an assessment on what OU will do. No possible way.

This thread was about a single recruit (and I don't mind that it's morphed into something else) but TDTW...maybe you should at least see how things play out before criticizing every move the staff makes). At the very least, you have to acknowledge that nobody knows how things will turn out. It just seems a little crazy to tear apart everything being done without any idea if it will work, or not.

If it doesn't work, then you can come back crow about how you "saw it coming". If it does work, you're going to look a little goofy.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

OU last year - 54% completion rate
ECU - 66% completion rate

Seriously, if he can find/coach guys to catch the ball we should be okay.