What Just happened???

[vtsooner21]

Just saw where a 4 star recruit (Jean Delance) decommitted From Oklahoma over a racist statement made by the SAE fraternity. How can this occur? Whether or not Delance goes elsewhere to play football, one must ask how things like this racism could possibly take place at OU. I cannot believe it. The only positive is that at least protests are taking place on campus against these acts from SAE...

Boomer

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

SAE has been in and out of trouble for decades. Heck when I was there in the early 90s they just got back on campus from a 5 year ban.

[BoulderSooner79]

Lots of smoke on TFB that Delance had been waffling on his commitment before this SAE debacle, but only Delance knows for sure. Not good when OU has this kind of story on the top of CNN and Google news websites. I at least hope all the Boren haters out there give him credit for acting swiftly and decisively. But I'm sure they won't because, hey, haters gonna hate.

[cvsooner]

When one of your main points of pride on the SAE website is it's the only fraternity founded in the antebellum South and nearly all the nearly 400 members fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War, are we really surprised? Apparently 150 years later they're still partying like it's 1865.

[lexsooner]

Just saw where a 4 star recruit (Jean Delance) decommitted From Oklahoma over a racist statement made by the SAE fraternity. How can this occur? Whether or not Delance goes elsewhere to play football, one must ask how things like this racism could possibly take place at OU. I cannot believe it. The only positive is that at least protests are taking place on campus against these acts from SAE...

Boomer

Why can you not believe it? The frats had a racist and elitist reputation when I went to OU in the 80s and it appears nothing has changed.

[manateepower]

Lots of smoke on TFB that Delance had been waffling on his commitment before this SAE debacle, but only Delance knows for sure. Not good when OU has this kind of story on the top of CNN and Google news websites. I at least hope all the Boren haters out there give him credit for acting swiftly and decisively. But I'm sure they won't because, hey, haters gonna hate.

So, boren isn't a supporter of sponsoring organizations conducting in racist behavior. Do you seriously believe that, that is so exceptional and courageous where everyone should change their mind about his historically egregious, history?

[Soonerfan88]

The only connection between his decommittment and the video is timing. He's been looking at other schools for weeks and had announced he & a buddy are a package deal. He's talked about concerns with the depth chart - there might be too many young OTs in front of him.

[SoonerorLater]

I'm sure Delance didn't like what he saw but I also think it gave him some rationale to do what he was already thinking about doing.

[BoulderSooner79]

So, boren isn't a supporter of sponsoring organizations conducting in racist behavior. Do you seriously believe that, that is so exceptional and courageous where everyone should change their mind about his historically egregious, sociopathic history?

No. I just stated that haters wouldn't give him credit for handling something well - they can only dwell on what they don't like.

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm sure Delance didn't like what he saw but I also think it gave him some rationale to do what he was already thinking about doing.

And he really didn't need rationale. It's pretty common for recruits to flip flop on verbals - especially early commits. He may well flip back before it's all said and done.

[Eielson]

No. I just stated that haters wouldn't give him credit for handling something well - they can only dwell on what they don't like.

What is there to like? SAE nationals had already pulled the plug on that chapter. It's like firing somebody that just quit.

To my knowledge, all he really did was force them to move out their house within about 36 hours during the busiest week of the year other than finals week. He just jeopardized the grades of a lot of innocent students to save face publicly.

[manateepower]

So, boren isn't a supporter of sponsoring organizations conducting in racist behavior. Do you seriously believe that, that is so exceptional and courageous where everyone should change their mind about his historically egregious, sociopathic history?

No. I just stated that haters wouldn't give him credit for handling something well - they can only dwell on what they don't like.

How much credit does he deserve here? He is not doing anything more than he absolutely has to, to not look like a complete scumbag.

I am obviously happy that he did it, but he doesn't deserve some kind of medal for it, this was no risk. It doesn't change the fact that he hasn't done so many terrible things.

[BoulderSooner79]

How much credit does he deserve here? He is not doing anything more than he absolutely has to, to not look like a complete scumbag.

I am obviously happy that he did it, but he doesn't deserve some kind of medal for it, this was no risk. It doesn't change the fact that he hasn't done so many terrible things.

QED

[TheHumanAlphabet]

SAE has been in and out of trouble for decades. Heck when I was there in the early 90s they just got back on campus from a 5 year ban.
Back in the late 70s or early 80s they were in trouble, I forget what, but something similar. To the point people were stealing "for sale" house signs and putting them in the SAE yard...

[Pride1Mom]

The part that upsets me most is the person taking the video on their phone, but NOT protesting the actions themselves. Just being a snitch and not having the courage to do something to stop the action on the bus. People will find something to point at what is different ftom them...color, sex, size, economics, but my mother said when you point a finger there are 4 more pointing back at you.

[Soonerjeepman]

really? I never was in a frat, but knew plenty of folks that were...the "pressure" to conform is tremendous. It's generational sometimes...you want to be the one that brings them down?

[birddog]

What if the football team was filmed singing about the very wonderful Jewish community in a negative light? They wouldn't because they are mentored to show respect, unlike the naive geeks that didn't think things through. That dude at the end of the sae clip saying, "no,no, no!", or whatever he said was comical. Reminded me of black sheep when farley is on stage at rock the vote yelling "kill whitey!", while the black dudes in the background are whispering to him "nooooo".

[cvsooner]

The part that upsets me most is the person taking the video on their phone, but NOT protesting the actions themselves. Just being a snitch and not having the courage to do something to stop the action on the bus. People will find something to point at what is different ftom them...color, sex, size, economics, but my mother said when you point a finger there are 4 more pointing back at you.

Recording the video had far more reach and impact and action than simply protesting at the time. Without it, we would never have known. Now we do.

[badger]

Just being a snitch and not having the courage to do something to stop the action on the bus
My guess is the video taker was wearing heels, a prom dress and on I-35 somewhere between Norman and OKC. One moment you protest, the next you're standing on the side of I-35 trying to hitchhike a ride home... for all we know, it was during those "snow storms" we've had lately, or at least it might have been the freezing weather that extended into March this year.

As much as I would have loved to have seen someone stomp off the bus disgusted, we don't know the context... or for all we know, right after/before the video someone did. It's only a few seconds long

[SoonerMarkVA]

What was the frat that used to have the flag way up on an impossible-to-climb pole for a week or two and, if you were able to take the flag they'd throw you a 50-keg party or some such thing? I don't know exactly how long it went on, but I remember it in the early/mid 80s when I was a teen.

[cvsooner]

And then: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_wubo7UcAAIgFo.jpg

Simmons picks up a recruit. So maybe there are some positives as well.


https://twitter.com/HomieEarnest/status/575385911057215490

[ouduckhunter]

What was the frat that used to have the flag way up on an impossible-to-climb pole for a week or two and, if you were able to take the flag they'd throw you a 50-keg party or some such thing? I don't know exactly how long it went on, but I remember it in the early/mid 80s when I was a teen.

Phi Psi's, or Pikes maybe? I remember that too, and it seems like it was, at the time, one of the smaller houses.

[8timechamps]

For anyone interested; Delance was gone well before the release of the video. For about the last 2 months it had been widely rumored that Delance was opening his recruitment back up. Given that Stoops stance has always been "if you're looking, so are we", the decommitment was expected.

I'm not going to say the kid wasn't affected by the video, but the decommitment came as no surprise. It's a convenient story for the media to latch on to, and works well with the narrative. However, this decommitment wasn't a surprise, and personally I don't think the video had much to do with his decision.

[SoonerForLife92]

For anyone interested; Delance was gone well before the release of the video. For about the last 2 months it had been widely rumored that Delance was opening his recruitment back up. Given that Stoops stance has always been "if you're looking, so are we", the decommitment was expected.

I'm not going to say the kid wasn't affected by the video, but the decommitment came as no surprise. It's a convenient story for the media to latch on to, and works well with the narrative. However, this decommitment wasn't a surprise, and personally I don't think the video had much to do with his decision.

Well that's not the way he makes it sound. I don't doubt you or anything just saying. He had a nice excuse to decommit.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/12454429/oklahoma-sooners-recruit-jean-delance-explains-decommitment

Yes because a few idiots in a stupid frat define the WHOLEEEE University. He says uneducated people then immediately groups every student together with these racists lol..... I go to this University and it is a great one. He will probably go somewhere like Alabama or similar. Stupid kid.

[cherokeebrewer]

What bothers me the most about this is that a few privileged white frat boys and their racist chant can taint the reputation of an entire university. This situation is not unique to the University of Oklahoma.

P.S. What terrible things has David Boren done? I ask because I truly don't know. Frankly, I'm proud of the university's response...

[Jacie]

Phi Psi's, or Pikes maybe? I remember that too, and it seems like it was, at the time, one of the smaller houses.

Perhaps you are thinking of the Fiji's or Phi Gamma Delta. We tried to steal it one night during a rainstorm when the pledges who had been assigned guard duty were inside. My frat brother managed to get to the top of the pole and even had it in his hand once but the wind was whipping it around so he couldn't hold on to pull it free. Once we were spotted we had to get out fast without the flag.

[8timechamps]

Well that's not the way he makes it sound. I don't doubt you or anything just saying. He had a nice excuse to decommit.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/12454429/oklahoma-sooners-recruit-jean-delance-explains-decommitment

Yes because a few idiots in a stupid frat define the WHOLEEEE University. He says uneducated people then immediately groups every student together with these racists lol..... I go to this University and it is a great one. He will probably go somewhere like Alabama or similar. Stupid kid.

I know what he said, and I'm not saying the video didn't affect him at all, but his decommitment had been expected long before this happened.

He's certainly put himself in a tough situation. If he ends up at any school with any racism in it's past (which covers just about everyone), then his comments are going to seem pretty petty. I think that's exactly what's going to happen, and I doubt anyone in the media will circle back and say "oh, it seems he wasn't being completely truthful with us back in March". Because that doesn't garner clicks and viewers like this does.

[panhandlesooner]

8time, you are right on target with your comment!

[BoulderSooner79]

He's certainly put himself in a tough situation. If he ends up at any school with any racism in it's past (which covers just about everyone), then his comments are going to seem pretty petty. I think that's exactly what's going to happen, and I doubt anyone in the media will circle back and say "oh, it seems he wasn't being completely truthful with us back in March". Because that doesn't garner clicks and viewers like this does.

You just contradicted yourself, so I have to agree with you :D

I agree that nobody will circle back when something racist becomes public at the school he eventually attends. Therefore, I disagree that he put himself in a tough position. But now to contradict myself, he *has* put himself in a tough position if he were to decide recommit to OU because the media would circle back on that. And since OU is his best option (by definition), that is a tough position indeed!

[DBrown]

A Bobby Vee tune from 1962 entitled "The Night Has A Thousand Eyes" comes into play here.
Now that night has a MILLION EYES and in seconds any and all kinds of things travel the globe in cyberspace and once that genie is out of the bottle it stays out. Better to hold one's opinion and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt....the same goes with posting.
A kid who would use this issue to try and get a better deal doesn't come across as a team oriented person. I wouldn't want such an individual....just my opinion. Bottom line this isn't really any different from the Oregon football players singing to FSU's Winston.....NO MEANS NO...NO MEANS NO....It's a real shame everybody on the planet is so hypersensitive and offended by the least little thing.
THIS IS STILL THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WHERE WE SHOULD CHAMPION THE RIGHT TO AGREE TO DISAGREE WITH FREE SPEECH FULLY PROTECTED EVEN THE STUPID STUFF.

[DBrown]

The proverbial "painting one's self into a corner"!

[BoulderSooner79]

...
Bottom line this isn't really any different from the Oregon football players singing to FSU's Winston.....NO MEANS NO...NO MEANS NO....It's a real shame everybody on the planet is so hypersensitive and offended by the least little thing.
THIS IS STILL THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WHERE WE SHOULD CHAMPION THE RIGHT TO AGREE TO DISAGREE WITH FREE SPEECH FULLY PROTECTED EVEN THE STUPID STUFF.

I see almost no similarity between the Duck football players taunting Winston and the SAE song as far as content. Yeah, both silly I guess. And they both did enjoy free speech as no one is being charged with a crime, but that doesn't mean they are protected from consequences. I could do the same thing at work and be fully confident I wouldn't be headed to jail. But just as confident I wouldn't be headed to work there anymore.

[soonergirlNeugene]

This is only a "PC issue" if you just got out of a time machine from the 1940s. Pretty clear cut garbage imo. I'm glad they aren't associated with OU anymore, but I don't think the University's actions will hold up if challenged in court. That said, idk that dragging this back into court would really be a great idea, but the students may decide the damage has already been done and go for it. Maybe a quiet settlement after a few years of the civil suit dragging out? Whatever happens, I think OU did the right thing here. And if those students want to raise their constitutional protections as a shield, then that's fine too. That's kinda the point of having them. Doesn't change the fact that OU made the right call.

[badger]

FREE SPEECH FULLY PROTECTED
The example Judge Judy always cites when defendants try to claim that they can say what they want or joke around is shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. Panicked people then trample each other to escape and someone ends up injured. The jokester is responsible for the injury, despite his right to free speech, despite the fact that he was joking.

One could (although I am not and it doesn't appear the university is either) even make the argument that "hang him from a tree" is a death threat. Death threats are also not protected free speech.

[cvsooner]

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater may not be an issue if the theatre is actually ON fire, either.

[Jack T.]

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater may not be an issue if the theatre is actually ON fire, either.

Hey hey hey. . .don't bring facts and logic into this argument. We're talking racism, and we only use emotion when discussing that!

[lexsooner]

This is only a "PC issue" if you just got out of a time machine from the 1940s. Pretty clear cut garbage imo. I'm glad they aren't associated with OU anymore, but I don't think the University's actions will hold up if challenged in court. That said, idk that dragging this back into court would really be a great idea, but the students may decide the damage has already been done and go for it. Maybe a quiet settlement after a few years of the civil suit dragging out? Whatever happens, I think OU did the right thing here. And if those students want to raise their constitutional protections as a shield, then that's fine too. That's kinda the point of having them. Doesn't change the fact that OU made the right call.

You are correct, counselor. Happily singing a song using the n word and referencing lynching is about as ugly, inappropriate, and hurtful as you can get, so it is asinine to label actions in response as "PC." Boren acted wisely in response to the situation, and kudos to him. Politically, anything other than taking an immediate hard line would not be adequate, and when you weigh the liability risks (as OU counsel certainly did), you realize the potential plaintiffs acted reprehensibly and are apologizing and in hiding along with their families, so they are probably not going to file to for damages or to try and come back and expose themselves in the press and on campus. They will just transfer to a school like SMU and act the same way with others like themselves and be more careful not to be outed in the future.

[badger]

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater may not be an issue if the theatre is actually ON fire, either.


Hey hey hey. . .don't bring facts and logic into this argument

I believe I used the word "jokester" when using that hypothetical but it's clear that we are not going to agree on this issue so please don't interpret this as a means to start nor continue an argument

[BoulderSooner79]

You are correct, counselor. Happily singing a song using the n word and referencing lynching is about as ugly, inappropriate, and hurtful as you can get, so it is asinine to label actions in response as "PC." Boren acted wisely in response to the situation, and kudos to him. Politically, anything other than taking an immediate hard line would not be adequate, and when you weigh the liability risks (as OU counsel certainly did), you realize the potential plaintiffs acted reprehensibly and are apologizing and in hiding along with their families, so they are probably not going to file to for damages or to try and come back and expose themselves in the press and on campus. They will just transfer to a school like SMU and act the same way with others like themselves and be more careful not to be outed in the future.

I don't see a huge risk for Boren/OU administration for taking action. Frat houses agree to a set of rules in order to maintain association with a school and I'm sure this display broke them. Expelling students is a bit more dicey given their rights to free speech; but they do agree to a code of conduct as a condition for enrollment. So again, speak all you want, but prepare to live the consequences. The sad part to me stems from the impact of social media. Kids shouldn't pay the rest of their lives for some stupid stunt. Previous to social media, this would have been a very local event. Lessons would have been learned and everyone could move forward w/o carrying some scarlet letter the rest of their lives.

[lexsooner]

I agree one situation by itself should not be a scarlett letter for the rest of their lives. However, their apologies were really somewhat disingenuous. They apologized for making a "stupid mistake," which indeed it was. However, they go on to claim they are really not racist and imply this was just an aberration. No, their conduct very much defined the type of persons they are and those with whom they associate. Boozed up or not, what kind of person sings with great zeal a song using the n word and referencing lynching? I cannot believe someone who is not racist could do this. It was certainly ok with them and in their world, but they got outed and only now are they sorry. I have a hard time believing if the video was never released, these kids would sit around and feel remorseful afterwards. It would be much more honest to apologize for their actions and admit they have issues and pledge to work on them. That's about all you can expect.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Did Boren say anything about OU's decision to not kick Mixon out of school for using a gay slur and breaking a girl's face? I admit to only scanning through his remarks and didn't see anything about that. Maybe some the defenders of this brave, swift-acting man here can point them out to me.

Thanks.

[BoulderSooner79]

Did Boren say anything about OU's decision to not kick Mixon out of school for using a gay slur and breaking a girl's face? I admit to only scanning through his remarks and didn't see anything about that. Maybe some the defenders of this brave, swift-acting man here can point them out to me.

Thanks.

That fact won't sink in for many people on a football forum. Boren played the odds that he could get away with a 1 year suspension in order to keep a 5 star recruit for his football team. The only reaction from fans wearing crimson shades was that Boren threw Mixon under the bus for applying any punishment at all and that breaking a skanks' face was an appropriate response to that mighty slap. And as far as a gay slur goes - that's a common thing posted on football forums, so no issue there. I suspect a 3 star Mixon would no longer be here.

[Tear Down This Wall]

That fact won't sink in for many people on a football forum. Boren played the odds that he could get away with a 1 year suspension in order to keep a 5 star recruit for his football team. The only reaction from fans wearing crimson shades was that Boren threw Mixon under the bus for applying any punishment at all and that breaking a skanks' face was an appropriate response to that mighty slap. And as far as a gay slur goes - that's a common thing posted on football forums, so no issue there. I suspect a 3 star Mixon would no longer be here.

Because you are capable of intelligent conversation, let us keep going down this route.

We have Boren banishing the SAE from OU for the acts of a few members. Yet, I don't recall there being any talk of suspending the football program after Mixon's slurs and actions.

Also, I don't recall Bob Stoops and the football team rallying for gay or women's rights after the Mixon incident.

Again, I admit to not seeing every piece of news that comes down he pike. Maybe someone can refresh my memory about the Mixon incident:

-Did Boren attempt to have the football program shut down?
-Did Stoops and the players rally for gay and/or women's rights?

[Eielson]

That fact won't sink in for many people on a football forum. Boren played the odds that he could get away with a 1 year suspension in order to keep a 5 star recruit for his football team. The only reaction from fans wearing crimson shades was that Boren threw Mixon under the bus for applying any punishment at all and that breaking a skanks' face was an appropriate response to that mighty slap. And as far as a gay slur goes - that's a common thing posted on football forums, so no issue there. I suspect a 3 star Mixon would no longer be here.

Of course football players are held to a different standard. Why shouldn't they be? If you're running a hospital, and you manage to land one of the best young doctors in the country, are you going to treat him the same as some random volunteer?

And I don't buy your 3-star vs. 5-star claim. We have plenty of RB's, and would get along just fine without him (ex: this year). We've had a handful of 3-star players get in legal trouble, such as Ryan Broyles, and we held on to them. More highly recruited guys like Jarboe and Metoyer were sent packing.

[graphster]

I think the damning piece of evidence against SAE is that this chant seemed pretty well coordinated, that many people who were there seemed familiar enough with it to know the words and go along with it, and it occurred on a bus headed to an official SAE event where members of a sorority were present. And then you have the video of the house mom using similar language.

It should be noted that the national SAE organization had already shut down the OU SAE chapter before Boren even announced his punishment, so to make it seem like Boren was overzealous here is just ridiculous.

Hard to see how that's similar in any way to a single member of the football team getting into an altercation off campus and not connected to any official football function.

[BoulderSooner79]

Because you are capable of intelligent conversation, let us keep going down this route.

We have Boren banishing the SAE from OU for the acts of a few members. Yet, I don't recall there being any talk of suspending the football program after Mixon's slurs and actions.

Also, I don't recall Bob Stoops and the football team rallying for gay or women's rights after the Mixon incident.

Again, I admit to not seeing every piece of news that comes down he pike. Maybe someone can refresh my memory about the Mixon incident:

-Did Boren attempt to have the football program shut down?
-Did Stoops and the players rally for gay and/or women's rights?

That's the first time I've been accused of intelligent conversation here :confused:, but I don't have much to add.

It just looks like pragmatists being pragmatic and national exposure to racism creating an urgent situation.

Mixon was suspended without much comment other than saying he was in the wrong.

If the only news I read was from OU football forums, I would think Boren was constantly trying to shut the football program down. The fact that he pays huge dollars to coaching staffs and is taking on a huge bond debt to update facilities doesn't come into play. It's always too little too late, so brushing the Mixon incident under the rug would never be viewed as pro-football or pro-Mixon although I think it was. In the spirit of full disclosure, I was in favor of the way the school handled the Mixon case and I fully admit I may be steered by football bias. I only supported Mixon staying because he turned 18 that day and had not really joined the team yet. Had he been around longer and had the "talk" that Stoops claims he gives (if a girl hits you, best to run away), I would hope for expulsion. But I could be rationalizing.

[SoonerorLater]

-Did Boren attempt to have the football program shut down?
-Did Stoops and the players rally for gay and/or women's rights?


No to my knowledge Boren did not attempt to have the football program shut down. Of course the football team and a fraternity are two entirely different things.

No probably because none of the players are gay (as far as we know) or women. what would gay or women's rights have to do with the football team in any meaningful way?

[FaninAma]

Of course football players are held to a different standard. Why shouldn't they be? If you're running a hospital, and you manage to land one of the best young doctors in the country, are you going to treat him the same as some random volunteer?

And I don't buy your 3-star vs. 5-star claim. We have plenty of RB's, and would get along just fine without him (ex: this year). We've had a handful of 3-star players get in legal trouble, such as Ryan Broyles, and we held on to them. More highly recruited guys like Jarboe and Metoyer were sent packing.

If you were running a large hospital and were enforcing your employee conduct policies and procedures differently for different level employees you might as well get out the check book and write the plantiff's attorney a check in the amount they demand.

You NEVER vary from the policy and procedure handbook. If you do you are just asking for a lawsuit.

[BoulderSooner79]

If you were running a large hospital and were enforcing your employee conduct policies and procedures differently for different level employees you might as well get out the check book and write the plantiff's attorney a check in the amount they demand.

You NEVER vary from the policy and procedure handbook. If you do you are just asking for a lawsuit.

I was going to post something similar, you do a better job than I could. I'll add that more valuable employees are treated differently - they get paid more. Similarly, football players get full ride scholarships as do some academic achievers. But once they break the law, it's a different story.

[Eielson]

If you were running a large hospital and were enforcing your employee conduct policies and procedures differently for different level employees you might as well get out the check book and write the plantiff's attorney a check in the amount they demand.

You NEVER vary from the policy and procedure handbook. If you do you are just asking for a lawsuit.

For some reason I doubt telling a volunteer not to come back is going to result in a huge lawsuit.

[8timechamps]

You just contradicted yourself, so I have to agree with you :D

I agree that nobody will circle back when something racist becomes public at the school he eventually attends. Therefore, I disagree that he put himself in a tough position. But now to contradict myself, he *has* put himself in a tough position if he were to decide recommit to OU because the media would circle back on that. And since OU is his best option (by definition), that is a tough position indeed!

Jerkface.

There will be media that goes back to ask him about his selection/why that school versus OU, but it won't be nearly as many that reported the initial story. There's still a chance he could end up at OU, but I'm thinking he would have to put aside his pride if that were to happen, and I don't think that'll happen.

[BoulderSooner79]

Jerkface.

There will be media that goes back to ask him about his selection/why that school versus OU, but it won't be nearly as many that reported the initial story. There's still a chance he could end up at OU, but I'm thinking he would have to put aside his pride if that were to happen, and I don't think that'll happen.

Careful, only my Mom calls me Jerkface.

I agree the only real obstacle he has created was to recommit to OU, so I don't expect that to happen. Still possible, though.

[PhiDeltBeers]

What if Mixon was white and the skank was black? Discuss.

[Jacie]

copied from The News Wire

Perhaps not-so-coincidentally, Jean Delance, the No. 12 offensive tackle in the country according to Rivals and the No. 12 class of 2016 prospect in the state of Texas, tweeted he got an offer from Alabama Monday afternoon. Officially offered by the University Of Alabama!! #RollTideRoll

Apparently, history, which in this instance IS on OUr side, shows OU's Bud Wilkinson recruited Prentice Gautt out of OKC Douglass who would go on to play for the Sooners from 1956-59.

Alabama finally got around to allowing a black athlete on their storied program in 1971. #WhatTookYouSoLong?

[Eielson]

What if Mixon was white and the skank was black? Discuss.

We all know the answer to that.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Tweeting about an offer isn't really the same as accepting one. Imo, no 4 star athletes should be committing to anyplace before their senior year anyway. Those who do often change their minds, so there isn't much point getting worked up about something that probably would have happened video or no video.

[SoonerorLater]

What if Mixon was white and the skank was black? Discuss.

Then he wouldn't be a 5 star running back.

[FaninAma]

For some reason I doubt telling a volunteer not to come back is going to result in a huge lawsuit.
So unpaid volunteers should be held to a higher behavioral standard than highly paid physicians? Large hospital HR departments follow the policy and procedure handbook strictly with everybody.

[Eielson]

So unpaid volunteers should be held to a higher behavioral standard than highly paid physicians?

Probably. If the highly paid doctor is bringing in $1,000,000 dollars above and beyond his salary, and is irreplacable, and the volunteer is bringing in $100 a year...absolutely. I'm not saying that this big-time doctor should be able to get away with rape and murder, but if he made a couple of patients cry over the course of the year, it's really not a big deal. He's doing a lot of good for the hospital, so you don't even worry about something like that. Meanwhile, if the volunteer is shadowing that doctor (and if he's shadowing, he's more likely a loss of money than a gain), and it's the volunteer that's making the patients cry...get him out of there ASAP.


Large hospital HR departments follow the policy and procedure handbook strictly with everybody.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe the hospital example wasn't the best example (although you're incredibly naive if you think it's as easy to fire a great doctor as it is to get rid of a volunteer). I'll admit that, but you're completely avoiding the main point. Stay away from the specific legalities of a completely different situation. One person could bring in millions of dollars to the university. Another kid pays less than $10,000 in tuition. Who are you going to invest in, and who are you going to get rid of?

[FaninAma]

Probably. If the highly paid doctor is bringing in $1,000,000 dollars above and beyond his salary, and is irreplacable, and the volunteer is bringing in $100 a year...absolutely. I'm not saying that this big-time doctor should be able to get away with rape and murder, but if he made a couple of patients cry over the course of the year, it's really not a big deal. He's doing a lot of good for the hospital, so you don't even worry about something like that. Meanwhile, if the volunteer is shadowing that doctor (and if he's shadowing, he's more likely a loss of money than a gain), and it's the volunteer that's making the patients cry...get him out of there ASAP.



Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe the hospital example wasn't the best example (although you're incredibly naive if you think it's as easy to fire a great doctor as it is to get rid of a volunteer). I'll admit that, but you're completely avoiding the main point. Stay away from the specific legalities of a completely different situation. One person could bring in millions of dollars to the university. Another kid pays less than $10,000 in tuition. Who are you going to invest in, and who are you going to get rid of?
You might think but then you would be wrong. I've seen hospitals revoke priviliges of a high revenue producing trauma surgeon over nursing complaints. So how many dollars have Mixon and DBG brought in to the University?

Nice to know you believe in a caste system among OU students. How silly of me to think all students should be treated equally.

[Eielson]

So how many dollars have Mixon and DBG brought in to the University?

DGB didn't bring in any money, but he also didn't cause any problems. Mixon hasn't brought in any money, either, but then again...he hasn't played a down yet, so that's a silly question. Plenty of athletes with criminal records have brought in money to OU, though.


Nice to know you believe in a caste system among OU students. How silly of me to think all students should be treated equally.

You think every student should be treated the exact same at OU? Should every department get the same amount of money? Should every student have the exact same class schedule? Should every student get the exact same financial aid? I doubt you'd be this "idealistic" if you were actually in a position of power.

Saying our football players should be treated differently than regular students doesn't mean they always get it easier. A lot of times they get punished for things that would be complete non-issues if a regular student did it. It's just a different set of rules for a different group of people.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Because you are capable of intelligent conversation, let us keep going down this route.

We have Boren banishing the SAE from OU for the acts of a few members. Yet, I don't recall there being any talk of suspending the football program after Mixon's slurs and actions.

Also, I don't recall Bob Stoops and the football team rallying for gay or women's rights after the Mixon incident.

Again, I admit to not seeing every piece of news that comes down he pike. Maybe someone can refresh my memory about the Mixon incident:

-Did Boren attempt to have the football program shut down?
-Did Stoops and the players rally for gay and/or women's rights?

This was a lead story on national news programs on Monday and Tuesday. By Wednesday it was relegated to a footnote and is gone on Thursday. Did Boren handle this appropriately? Go ask Roger Goodell or the Ferguson, MO (ex-) police chief. Boren protected his brand.

As for Mixon, nobody outside of a few message board posters and a few CFB columnists writing articles in the off-season that absolutely nobody is reading gives a rat's ***. It's called damage control and this is the world we live in. As for those guys that were expelled, I'm guessing they would have never set foot on campus again anyways. It certainly wouldn't have been a comfortable existence.

[FaninAma]

Yeah, lucky for us DBG didn't throw any women down stairs or get caught with drugs while he was here. And yes, I think all students should be treated equally when it comes to fromal university policy concerning conduct and grades. If you think some students should be shown preference then you are just asking for morale and legal problems.

[FaninAma]

This was a lead story on national news programs on Monday and Tuesday. By Wednesday it was relegated to a footnote and is gone on Thursday. Did Boren handle this appropriately? Go ask Roger Goodell or the Ferguson, MO (ex-) police chief. Boren protected his brand.

As for Mixon, nobody outside of a few message board posters and a few CFB columnists writing articles in the off-season that absolutely nobody is reading gives a rat's ***. It's called damage control and this is the world we live in. As for those guys that were expelled, I'm guessing they would have never set foot on campus again anyways. It certainly wouldn't have been a comfortable existence.

Wrong. The OU student body noticed. I have a daughter enrolled at OU and the students have noticed the discrepancy in how the episodes were handled. It may not be a visible thing but it is undercutting the respect for Boren and his administration.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

So fan, how long are you going to allow CNN and NBC to rip to shreds your organization while you adjudicate in the name of "fairness"? Any money you may pay out in lawsuits to these guys would be pennies on the dollar compared to what weeks of negative publicity would cost you.

[KantoSooner]

I'm sure there are undergrad courses in jurisprudence that might help your daughter understand, Fanin.
One distinction that is sufficient is that the frat boys were acting under the umbrella of an officially recognized organization.
To be comparable, DGB or Mixon would need to leap into the stands during a game and assault someone at Bob's direction.

[FaninAma]

I'm sure there are undergrad courses in jurisprudence that might help your daughter understand, Fanin.
One distinction that is sufficient is that the frat boys were acting under the umbrella of an officially recognized organization.
To be comparable, DGB or Mixon would need to leap into the stands during a game and assault someone at Bob's direction.

I understand and my daughter understands why the frat idiots and their frat were disciplined. That's not the problem. The problem is how Boren has handled the various student conduct issues differently. You are either naive or not being honest if you maintain there isn't a difference in the way students are treated.. BTW, my daughter is not in the minority in her opinion and she is on a varsity OU athletic team and the athletes on her team feel they would not get the same consideration that the football players get.

I wondered why Frank Shannon got hammered byt the Title IX committee but I understand why now....because their is a lot of resentment building up toward Boren among the student body and faculty about how he has meted out punishment when it comes to conduct violations and this was a chance for the committee to give Boren the middle finger.

[Tear Down This Wall]

What if Mixon was white and the skank was black? Discuss.

Didn't even bother to address that. It's enough, to me, that Mixon got away with a slur and an assault, and was suspended for a six month "year."

As I've stated before, you have to remember where we are these days: only white males are capable of racism...and sexism...and....

[Tear Down This Wall]

I understand and my daughter understands why the frat idiots and their frat were disciplined. That's not the problem. The problem is how Boren has handled the various student conduct issues differently. You are either naive or not being honest if you maintain there isn't a difference in the way students are treated.. BTW, my daughter is not in the minority in her opinion and she is on a varsity OU athletic team and the athletes on her team feel they would not get the same consideration that the football players get.

I wondered why Frank Shannon got hammered byt the Title IX committee but I understand why now....because their is a lot of resentment building up toward Boren among the student body and faculty about how he has meted out punishment when it comes to conduct violations and this was a chance for the committee to give Boren the middle finger.

The problem is, Boren and - by throwing himself into the middle of it - Bob Stoops are hypocrites. We can only assume Joe Castiglione as well because he's Bob's boss and allowed Stoops to cancel practices and make a show of it.

Not only should the SAE kids have been thrown of campus, but Mixon as well. The SAE students don't play football; Mixon does. Neither situation lifted OU's "brand."

That Boren and Stoops defend their decision on Mixon putting on the show of sanctimony at the SAE situation is ridiculous. Both situations called for expelling students.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Down here in Dallas a dozen or so blacks were out in front of the expelled kids' parents houses.

Where were these people in August of last year? Did they fly to Mixon's parents' home in California to protest the black football player breaking a white girl's face? Or, to protest the black football player using a homosexual slur against a white male?

Of course not. Just remember these two things:

(1) Only white males can be racist, sexist, etc.
(2) Football players have protected status on college football campuses, even after they commit crimes.

[SoonerorLater]

Where were these people in August of last year?

That's a complete non sequitur. I'm not familiar the example you gave and I'll take it what you said at face value but I would say that the point of emphasis for their protest is institutionalized racism. That is the case with a national fraternity not the case with the Mixon incident.

Additionally you could also note that the Black Community at large had no problem with the Mixon arrest/trial.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Wrong. The OU student body noticed. I have a daughter enrolled at OU and the students have noticed the discrepancy in how the episodes were handled. It may not be a visible thing but it is undercutting the respect for Boren and his administration.

Then tell your daughter and all those other disgruntled students to go enroll up in Stillwater. This was crisis management 101. First rule of crisis management is get the story off the nightly news program as quickly as possible. As an alumnus of the University of Oklahoma I applaud Boren's response as he did just that.

As for fairness, what the **** is that? You guys that are lamenting the fate of these poor overindulged frat boys probably bristled when Patricia Arquette used her Oscar speech to campaign for "equal pay" for women. Here in the real world fairness is an abstract idea at best.

[BoulderSooner79]

...
I wondered why Frank Shannon got hammered byt the Title IX committee but I understand why now....because their is a lot of resentment building up toward Boren among the student body and faculty about how he has meted out punishment when it comes to conduct violations and this was a chance for the committee to give Boren the middle finger.

You obviously don't read the real truth as posted on this board. Boren directed his puppets on the title IX committee to go after Shannon with a vengeance when Shannon did nothing wrong. It's part of his grand scheme to water down or even destroy the football program (for completely unknown reasons). So forget this title IX/committee inconvenient fact - Boren personally banned Shannon from the University and will no doubt prohibit him from returning. It's in the SF.com FAQ.

[Tear Down This Wall]

That's a complete non sequitur. I'm not familiar the example you gave and I'll take it what you said at face value but I would say that the point of emphasis for their protest is institutionalized racism. That is the case with a national fraternity not the case with the Mixon incident.

Additionally you could also note that the Black Community at large had no problem with the Mixon arrest/trial.

Really? Did the national fraternity tell them to say racist things? Maybe I read the news to quickly, but wasn't it the national fraternity that revoked the OU group's charter before Boren acted?

And, if you are correct, then, are college football organizations "institutionalized" to the point where breaking girl's faces is okay? And, the face of a girl who also happens to not be of the attackers own race.

As another poster pointed out earlier, imagine if it had been the other way around - a white football player, off-campus, calls a black girl's friend a fag, then breaks her face. We'd be hearing on and on and on about racism, white privilege, homophobia, and all sorts of other academic drivel that slimes its way into politics.

The bottom line is, Boren/Stoops/Castiglione do operate with a double standard...which is par for the course in college athletics, and particularly when it comes to football and men's basketball.

[KantoSooner]

Fanin, the cases are different. There's a legal distinction that would support different treatment for the frat vs Mixon. I explained it above.
If you or others don't understand there's nothing further I can do to help you.
I suppose that's why we have courts rather than relying on citizens to work things out.

[SoonerorLater]

Really? Did the national fraternity tell them to say racist things?

I don't know, maybe

http://totalfratmove.com/new-evidence-suggests-the-sae-racist-chant-is-not-just-an-ou-thing-other-chapters-called-into-question/

but that is beside the point. You're shifting the argument to accommodate your rant.

You said:

"Where were these people in August of last year? Did they fly to Mixon's parents' home in California to protest the black football player breaking a white girl's face? Or, to protest the black football player using a homosexual slur against a white male?

What you are describing is not a tit for tat situation. In the one case of the SAE fraternity, blacks would be considered the aggrieved party. In the other case the wronged party was a drunken white woman who attacked Mixon for making supposed homosexual slurs. Why would blacks be protesting this? What would this have to do with any transgression against the black community in general? Given your example wouldn't it be incumbent on the "gay community" to protest at Mixon's parents' home in California?

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I think TDTW is trying to turn this white guy victimization routine into a regular cable news gig. Hey, it worked for Al Sharpton.

[FaninAma]

Fanin, the cases are different. There's a legal distinction that would support different treatment for the frat vs Mixon. I explained it above.
If you or others don't understand there's nothing further I can do to help you.
I suppose that's why we have courts rather than relying on citizens to work things out.

Kanto, does the University of Oklahoma have a student conduct policy? Is that OFFICIAL policy applied equally and fairly among the student body regardless of affiliation with certain organizations? I would say no.

BTW, how much investigation into this latest situation did Boren do before he lopped everybody's head off? How many non-racist SAE's found themselves out on the street the week of midterm exams? How many employees of the SAE fraternity are now looking for jobs?

I am the last person to step up and defend fraternities and sororities. I think they are juvenile, elitist and generally a waste of time. I never pledged a fraternity and both my daughters who attended OU look down on them with disdain. But I do believe in fair administration of policies and procedures and understand that Boren is arbitrary and heavy-handed with how he uses his enforcement powers.

BTW, both of my daughters were on OU varsity teams and I know for a fact that members of their teams were kicked off of the teams and suspended from school for far less than what Mixon did. I guess all athletes at OU aren't viewed equally in the eyes of DBo, either.

[cvsooner]

I don't know, maybe

http://totalfratmove.com/new-evidence-suggests-the-sae-racist-chant-is-not-just-an-ou-thing-other-chapters-called-into-question/

but that is beside the point. You're shifting the argument to accommodate your rant.

You said:

"Where were these people in August of last year? Did they fly to Mixon's parents' home in California to protest the black football player breaking a white girl's face? Or, to protest the black football player using a homosexual slur against a white male?

What you are describing is not a tit for tat situation. In the one case of the SAE fraternity, blacks would be considered the aggrieved party. In the other case the wronged party was a drunken white woman who attacked Mixon for making supposed homosexual slurs. Why would blacks be protesting this? What would this have to do with any transgression against the black community in general? Given your example wouldn't it be incumbent on the "gay community" to protest at Mixon's parents' home in California?

Not to defend Mixon, but let us not forget there was also reported a racial slur in that altercation.

[cvsooner]

I think TDTW is trying to turn this white guy victimization routine into a regular cable news gig. Hey, it worked for Al Sharpton.

And Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity and...well, basically the entire Fox lineup.

[KantoSooner]

I have long found it a curious phenomenon, Fanin, that so many people run their mouths about supposed corrupt, bent, dishonest or otherwise illegit practices at OU, but when push comes to shove and real life challenges are made, in the courts, it all turns out to be either third party crap, paranoid meanderings or otherwise groundless.
If you're so sure of your case, sue; you'll make good money. If you don't want to go it alone, start a class action.
Alternatively, you could investigate the possibility that things are running along pretty close to what 'the rules' call for and that Boren is not conducting satanic rituals in his basement late at night to either illegally benefit football players or to collude in the dastardly destruction of the footballl program. (I forget which side of the anti-Boren camp you're in these days).

[graphster]

Just to be clear, the frat wasn't just punished because they said some bad things or used a bad word. The chant specifically referred to lynching, within a context of illustrating how they were excluding people based on race. Keep in mind the historical context of actual lynchings and discriminatory practices that happened in Oklahoma and many other states less a century ago. There are still people alive today who grew up in a culture where Black people were lynched and were barred from participating in a variety of public institutions. That is not even in the same ballpark as simply using a racial slur. And it turns out that the frat was, in fact, bigoted in how they treated African Americans on campus. Not just in the chant, but in a range of other interactions with students on campus (including athletes). It's not just that they said racist words, it's that the organization was also actively helping to create an environment that resulted in many students feeling excluded, and that was essentially institutionalizing racial discrimination.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Just to be clear, the frat wasn't just punished because they said some bad things or used a bad word. The chant specifically referred to lynching, within a context of illustrating how they were excluding people based on race. Keep in mind the historical context of actual lynchings and discriminatory practices that happened in Oklahoma and many other states less a century ago. There are still people alive today who grew up in a culture where Black people were lynched and were barred from participating in a variety of public institutions. That is not even in the same ballpark as simply using a racial slur. And it turns out that the frat was, in fact, bigoted in how they treated African Americans on campus. Not just in the chant, but in a range of other interactions with students on campus (including athletes). It's not just that they said racist words, it's that the organization was also actively helping to create an environment that resulted in many students feeling excluded, and that was essentially institutionalizing racial discrimination.

What is the "historical context" of a black man using a gay slur and breaking a white woman's face? Are there "still people alive today" who are growing up in that culture. Oh...that's so Summer of 2014. We've gotten past that dark chapter in our nation's history now.

Also, while we're on the subject of "organizations" creating "environment(s) that result in many students feeling excluded" - show me the evidence of black fraternities trying to recruit white OU students to make sure they are not contributing to "institutionalizing racial discrimination."

In fact, go by a black frat house and ask to speak to the white members.

[Eielson]

From what I've heard, SAE had 2 strikes, so this is clearly worthy of strike 3. I don't know how anybody could argue that. A very large group was reciting it, and it seems that just about everybody in SAE knew it.

My concern was going after individuals, and kicking kids out of their housing (innocent AND guilty) during a huge week of midterms. I'm also concerned about where we draw the line for all these witch hunts. What happens to me if I get a little intoxicated one night and threaten to cut some fags dick off?

[SoonerorLater]

From what I've heard, SAE had 2 strikes, so this is clearly worthy of strike 3. I don't know how anybody could argue that. A very large group was reciting it, and it seems that just about everybody in SAE knew it.

My concern was going after individuals, and kicking kids out of their housing (innocent AND guilty) during a huge week of midterms. I'm also concerned about where we draw the line for all these witch hunts. What happens to me if I get a little intoxicated one night and threaten to cut some fags dick off?

Hmm? A reprimand from the SoonerFans Message Board?

[FaninAma]

I have long found it a curious phenomenon, Fanin, that so many people run their mouths about supposed corrupt, bent, dishonest or otherwise illegit practices at OU, but when push comes to shove and real life challenges are made, in the courts, it all turns out to be either third party crap, paranoid meanderings or otherwise groundless.
If you're so sure of your case, sue; you'll make good money. If you don't want to go it alone, start a class action.
Alternatively, you could investigate the possibility that things are running along pretty close to what 'the rules' call for and that Boren is not conducting satanic rituals in his basement late at night to either illegally benefit football players or to collude in the dastardly destruction of the footballl program. (I forget which side of the anti-Boren camp you're in these days).

May I ask you politiely WTF are you talking about? Is it really such a stretch to ask Boren to be consistent in how he fulfils his duties and obligations in regard to overseeing student conduct and behavior? OU is taking a beating in the national media right now and the football team with their butt hurt antics has had no small part in that. Why does everything have to be seen in a nunanced, shades of grey manner? Either Boren has been fair and consistent or he hasn't. You feel he has been because of extenuating circumstances. I don't because I think his principles have been corrupted by outside interests that cause him to bend the rules for a select few. And then the select few who he bent the rules for turn around and ungratefully kick him and the University in the ***.

[aurorasooner]

Can't you guys see that Boren didn't have the time to weigh his decision like he had with the Mixon/Shannon deal. He had to make the decision overnight, and if he wasn't forceful enough, our campus could've resembled Ferguson, Missouri in a couple of days, especially with those sensationalist vultures from CNN lurking around 24/7.
I don't personally agree with some of the things he did, like kicking the in-house SAEs out on the street virtually over-night, however I don't have all the facts he does, but overall he controlled a possible explosive, and I mean real explosive, situation.

[SoonerorLater]

I can't believe the Boren bashing over this event. In the past I have been critical of Boren. In this case he was spot on. Why would anybody think he should necessarily treat the football team like he does some fraternity? In the larger scheme of things SAE is irrelevant to the University of Oklahoma. The football team is a cash cow. When some fraternity creates as much revenue for the University as the football team does then you might have a point. Until then you do what is necessary to keep the ship afloat.

[FaninAma]

Can't you guys see that Boren didn't have the time to weigh his decision like he had with the Mixon/Shannon deal. He had to make the decision overnight, and if he wasn't forceful enough, our campus could've resembled Ferguson, Missouri in a couple of days, especially with those sensationalist vultures from CNN lurking around 24/7.
I don't personally agree with some of the things he did, like kicking the in-house SAEs out on the street virtually over-night, however I don't have all the facts he does, but overall he controlled a possible explosive, and I mean real explosive, situation.

If anything the extra time he had to make a fair decision in the Mixon/Shannon/DBG cases is even more of an indictment of his unequal approach to the latest conduct issue. I have no problem with coming down hard on the guilty offenders as they were identified but do have a problem with him making a show of force and hammering students in the fraternity who may not have been involved with the racism simply to satisfy the blood lust of the PC crowd in the media and other groups. Leaders don't do that. Parents don't send their kids to OU to be used as examples by the administration because they are afraid of a little heat or bad publicity. And I certainly don't think parents appreciate a University President who speaks out of both sides of his mouth:


"The University is an educational institution, which always sets high standards that we hope will be upheld by our students. We hope that our students will all learn from those standards, but at the same time, we believe in second chances so that our students can learn and grow from life's experiences."
------David Broen after the Mixon assault

I can't believe there are so many people defending the guy.

[KantoSooner]

You're right, I find his actions consistent for the reasons laid out in my above post. You disagree.
So far, civil, criminal courts and BoR are siding with the position I lean towards. For whatever that's worth.

[FaninAma]

You're right, I find his actions consistent for the reasons laid out in my above post. You disagree.
So far, civil, criminal courts and BoR are siding with the position I lean towards. For whatever that's worth.

Where have I said the frat idiots don't deserve punishment? I do think Boren should cool his jets and do some detective work to find who was and wasn't involved instead of steamrolling over the lives of several young men who may not have been guilty just to appease a lynch mob. I also think throwing the entire membership of the fraternity out of their housing on 2 days notice was absurd.

The main point we disagree on is how the SAE crushing badass version of David Boren differs from this version of David Boren:

"The University is an educational institution, which always sets high standards that we hope will be upheld by our students. We hope that our students will all learn from those standards, but at the same time, we believe in second chances so that our students can learn and grow from life's experiences."
------David Boren after the Mixon assault

He needs to decide if he is going to be a tough, no leniency type of task master or the fuzzy, forgiving teddy bear he presented himself as in the above statement.

And the football team acting like butt hurt prima-donnas for 4 days is pathetic. The problem is that PC crowd is never ever going to let go of their victim card. Every time an idiot like the frat morons says something stupid then they are going to slap that card on the table to indict all white people and white people supported institutions. It is never going to stop. Never. And it has gotten way past tiresome at this point.

[aurorasooner]

The way I look at it is, suspending a ""quality FB player for a season is like kicking a regular student out of the university for a year.

Most 4 or 5 star highly recruited frosh FB players from half way across the country would probably just pack it up and transfer out, which may have been his thinking with Mixon--he might have been thinking that Joe would just head back to Cali.(I thought he would transfer to some Pac school back in Cali or Fresno/San Diego St) Problem solved to the FB only zealots, "Hey I didn't kick him out of school only kicked him off the FB team for a year. If he wanted to stay he could've". Same with Shannon, probably thought he would just declare for the league instead of coming back.
The DGB situation is the head-scratcher to me. I wouldn't have given this kid the time of day, going only on what I've seen in the press. Boren probably told HCBS that the 1st time this kid sneezes in the wrong direction, he's gone, and HCBS probably owes Boren a big-time marker for that. (don't really know or care).

In any event, I'm more concerned about what Boren may have done to influence our Geology/Geophysics dept with this fracking/Ok-earthquake no-relationship deal (article in Newsweek early last week) than I am about the way he handled any of these FB players or this SAE deal. Don't have the link right now as it's in an admin acct and I'm currently in an LUA.

[KantoSooner]

Fanin, you've now gone over into straw man mode. You imply that I said that you said the frat rats shouldn't be punished. I never said any such thing.
My statements have focused on accusations of inconsistency leveled at Boren. And at his theoretical motives for doing so.
I have no idea whether you are even aware of misconstruing what I wrote much less have any idea of what your motives might be.
To try and turn this into some sort of "station of the cross" for those who somehow feel that white people are being victimized, however, is both contemptible and a delusional misapprehension of events.

[cvsooner]

In any event, I'm more concerned about what Boren may have done to influence our Geology/Geophysics dept with this fracking/Ok-earthquake no-relationship deal (article in Newsweek early last week) than I am about the way he handled any of these FB players or this SAE deal. Don't have the link right now as it's in an admin acct and I'm currently in an LUA.

Hear, hear.

[FaninAma]

Fanin, you've now gone over into straw man mode. You imply that I said that you said the frat rats shouldn't be punished. I never said any such thing.My statements have focused on accusations of inconsistency leveled at Boren. And at his theoretical motives for doing so.I have no idea whether you are even aware of misconstruing what I wrote much less have any idea of what your motives might be.To try and turn this into some sort of "station of the cross" for those who somehow feel that white people are being victimized, however, is both contemptible and a delusional misapprehension of events.OK Kanto. Set me straight. Do you agree with Boren kicking 100 students out of their living quarters on 36 hours notice without any attempt to ascertain individual involvement? Do you support his hyopcritical pronouncement after Mixon was given a second chance? Do you disagree that PC demagoging on race is damaging race relations and that the problem is exacerbated by "leaders" like Boren who cave under any hint of being called a racist? Do you agree with how the football team has handled this situation and essentially thrown the University under the bus? Do you agree with Eielson that different groups of students at OU should be treated differently based on race and athletic ability?Thanks. I'll hang up and listen off the air.

[graphster]

I'll tell you what's damaging race relations.

Racists. In police departments. In politics. In the labor market. And, on many college campuses, in fraternities.

LOL that "race relations" are problematic because people are making a big deal of horrible racists being horrible racists, and not because the racists are, in fact, horrible people who are running variety of social, economic, and political institutions that oppress people of color.

[graphster]

BTW, Dusty Dvoracek put a dude in the hospital a decade ago, and was involved in a number of violent incidents prior to that. Was kicked off the team for a year, then reinstated. Now works as a member of the media covering the program.

[KantoSooner]

Well Fanin, Boren has, so far, followed procedure. And no, marking a racist outburst is not throwing anyone, except the racists, under anything. I'm truly sorry that this entire affair has made you so angry. You used to be good hearted if, in my opinion, not in complete command of things you'd read. On this one, however, you're lining up with brain dead evil. And, imho, stretching and hauling to try and figure out a way to explain a way out.

[FaninAma]

Well Fanin, Boren has, so far, followed procedure. And no, marking a racist outburst is not throwing anyone, except the racists, under anything. I'm truly sorry that this entire affair has made you so angry. You used to be good hearted if, in my opinion, not in complete command of things you'd read. On this one, however, you're lining up with brain dead evil. And, imho, stretching and hauling to try and figure out a way to explain a way out.
Your opinion. I disagree and so do a lot of other reasonable OU supporters. The reason I am so worked up about this is because Boren is clearly being two-faced about the incidents because he is being a PC politician and not a leader. I assume you are ok with that but as the father of 2 daughters who attended OU along with a lot of my money I expect much better from the President.

[FaninAma]

I'll tell you what's damaging race relations.

Racists. In police departments. In politics. In the labor market. And, on many college campuses, in fraternities.

LOL that "race relations" are problematic because people are making a big deal of horrible racists being horrible racists, and not because the racists are, in fact, horrible people who are running variety of social, economic, and political institutions that oppress people of color.

Yeah, lets go shoot those racist police officers. Lets make all of the unoffical thought police official government employees and license them to ferret out all racist sentiment and thought no matter how innoccuous it is. And by all means, lets blame everything bad that is going on with the black community on racism because god knows they can't over come any obstacles by themselves and they have no access to public schools and government assistance for education and training programs like the rest of us. Those poor, poor helpless blacks. Racism is the only reason they have 80% of their newborns born to single mothers and why the crime rate among black males is 5 x that of the general population.

Weeping Mother of Jesus! Give me a break!

[SoonerForLife92]

Wow Fanin I've never disagreed and then agreed with two posts in a row from the same person like that.

Anyway this whole thing. You want to talk about Boren being two faced... in the Mixon case why was the druggy girl who said racial slurs not punished in some form along with Mixon?

Or why was Shannon punished for essentially doing nothing wrong according to a court of law, with even the "victim" herself declining to press charges.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Yeah, lets go shoot those racist police officers. Lets make all of the unoffical thought police official government employees and license them to ferret out all racist sentiment and thought no matter how innoccuous it is. And by all means, lets blame everything bad that is going on with the black community on racism because god knows they can't over come any obstacles by themselves and they have no access to public schools and government assistance for education and training programs like the rest of us. Those poor, poor helpless blacks. Racism is the only reason they have 80% of their newborns born to single mothers and why the crime rate among black males is 5 x that of the general population.

Weeping Mother of Jesus! Give me a break!

I think they should just close down the police departments in Ferguson and other cities like it. What's the point? If the police enforce the laws, the residents cry racism. If the don't enforce the laws, they cry they are ignored and, thus...racism.

They complain about begin arrested for marijuana, loitering, being homeless, and other things. Fine. Just walk away from them and let them police themselves. They want to do whatever they want without consequences, let them do it.

There have been thousands of laws passed locally, statewide, and federally for decades now trying to help these people. They don't want to be helped, so stop helping them. Stop wasting taxpayer money on policing them. Let them do it themselves. They do it anyway to the extent they can get away with. Drug dealers and pimps run those types of cities; let them have it.

I'm 111% for letting to stupid and ignorant kill themselves off with the drugs and thuggery they cling to and defend. Michael Brown is their poster child - strong arming a clerk for cigarillos to make blunts, some dope, and write horrible rap "songs" about smoking dope and poking imaginary p*ssy. Then, attacking a cop. What a guy. Typical ghetto. Let them have it.

It's the life they want, let them live it to the fullest on each other. Anyone with brains enough to leave will eventually do so. And, if they spill out into the suburbs - once all the businesses are looted and/or gone in their ghettos - there are enough suburbans armed to defense themselves and their property, and the law will protect them for doing so.

[graphster]

Wow. I think we're done here.

[BoulderSooner79]

Wow. I think we're done here.

That would be nice. Back to the football team - It's pretty obvious, IMO, that there is something going on within this football team. The antics of one dicey frat house doesn't appear on the surface to be a reason to evoke such a reaction from the team. It must have brought something to the surface that was already festering. Maybe this demonstration and deferring practice until after spring break will serve to resolve whatever it is and bring this team together. Or maybe not. I certainly believe a team must be a family and have each others backs or they will not be successful. No amount of changing assistant coaches or schemes is going to make much difference if the team internally divided.

[Tear Down This Wall]

That would be nice. Back to the football team - It's pretty obvious, IMO, that there is something going on within this football team. The antics of one dicey frat house doesn't appear on the surface to be a reason to evoke such a reaction from the team. It must have brought something to the surface that was already festering. Maybe this demonstration and deferring practice until after spring break will serve to resolve whatever it is and bring this team together. Or maybe not. I certainly believe a team must be a family and have each others backs or they will not be successful. No amount of changing assistant coaches or schemes is going to make much difference if the team internally divided.

To me, the ship is currently without rudder.

No leader among the players - except for the guy who rants on his social media. Stoops is so lost, he's hiring guys from programs that don't sniff championships. The administration talks out of both sides of its mouth on discipline.

Again, to me the only upshot is that it might rid us of them all and we can make a fresh start. Divisions are already occurring about the leadership among those of us who give. And, a divided house cannot stand.

My fear, though, again, is that we are in for decline similar to that of Texas. The leadership, due to past success on the field, has enough cache stored up to survive a year or two longer.

But, I'll tell you this...I will bet you Stoops doesn't go out this summer and start trying to entice players with drug and women beating histories being kicked out of other programs into his program. That he is letting his players call the shots on when they will practice demonstrates to me that he recognizes that his rope is short - with many different elements of the thing.

[cvsooner]

On the other hand, maybe this is exactly what is needed to unite the team and coaches.

[BoulderSooner79]

...
That he is letting his players call the shots on when they will practice demonstrates to me that he recognizes that his rope is short - with many different elements of the thing.

It's hard for me to judge this without more inside knowledge. But IMO, forcing them to practice if it's clear this demonstration is extremely important to them would be a huge mistake. And that would be true regardless of Stoops' rope length. It is true that if he had complete control of the team and he really wanted them to practice now, they would. But not because he ordered them to - they would do it to please him as a leader. The missing piece of information is whether Stoops wants them to practice now or feels the current course of action is best. If it's the latter, he is being a leader.

[FaninAma]

It's hard for me to judge this without more inside knowledge. But IMO, forcing them to practice if it's clear this demonstration is extremely important to them would be a huge mistake. And that would be true regardless of Stoops' rope length. It is true that if he had complete control of the team and he really wanted them to practice now, they would. But not because he ordered them to - they would do it to please him as a leader. The missing piece of information is whether Stoops wants them to practice now or feels the current course of action is best. If it's the latter, he is being a leader.
Gotta disagree. If this were Bama and Saban I guarantee you that the players would defer any public statments through Saban. Everything would be handled by Saban. Saban would be the face of the program until the uproar subsided..

Stoops has morphed into Mack Brown. The things that Mack did before his "resignation" are freakingly similiar to what Stoops has done over the past 2 seasons. From the coaching changes desparately trying to shift the blame for the team's poor on-the-field performance to this latest Mack-like action of trying to blend into the back ground and going out of his way to avoid stepping up to be the guy who is the face of the program during times of crisis while not making it clear that he has complete control of the direction of the program and that the buck stops at the office of the HC.

Instead he allows the players to create a spectacle that exacerbated the situation and hurt the University.

This is the first real professional crisis Bob has had and I am unconvinced that he can handle it.

[FaninAma]

Wow Fanin I've never disagreed and then agreed with two posts in a row from the same person like that.

Anyway this whole thing. You want to talk about Boren being two faced... in the Mixon case why was the druggy girl who said racial slurs not punished in some form along with Mixon?

Or why was Shannon punished for essentially doing nothing wrong according to a court of law, with even the "victim" herself declining to press charges.

I don't know what happened to that girl. Is she still at OU? I suspect OU administration felt having sustained multiple facial fractures including an orbital blow-out fracture was punishment enough. If it was her slapping Mixon or even using the "N" word without the retaliation then she should have been punished the same way as the frat guys who were shown uttering the moronic chant on the video.

If you need more of an explanation you need to ask Boren. He is the one who has been inconsistent with his approach. He is the only one who can explain why he did what he did. And judging from what is going on on the OU campus his actions have hung the Greek students out to dry.

[BoulderSooner79]

Gotta disagree. If this were Bama and Saban I guarantee you that the players would defer any public statments through Saban. Everything would be handled by Saban. Saban would be the face of the program until the uproar subsided..

Stoops has morphed into Mack Brown. The things that Mack did before his "resignation" are freakingly similiar to what Stoops has done over the past 2 seasons. From the coaching changes desparately trying to shift the blame for the team's poor on-the-field performance to this latest Mack-like action of trying to blend into the back ground and going out of his way to avoid stepping up to be the guy who is the face of the program during times of crisis while not making it clear that he has complete control of the direction of the program and that the buck stops at the office of the HC.

Instead he allows the players to create a spectacle that exacerbated the situation and hurt the University.

This is the first real professional crisis Bob has had and I am unconvinced that he can handle it.

You could be right, but I'm not convinced due what I said before - lack of inside information and I don't think you have any more than I do. Followers must know that leaders have their backs and this could be Stoops way of reinforcing that. Or it could be Stoops deferring because that trust doesn't exist as you say. Probably won't know until fall, unless internal dirt becomes public between now and then.

[Eielson]

I'm 111% for

NO YOU AREN'T, DAMMIT!

[8timechamps]

That would be nice. Back to the football team - It's pretty obvious, IMO, that there is something going on within this football team. The antics of one dicey frat house doesn't appear on the surface to be a reason to evoke such a reaction from the team. It must have brought something to the surface that was already festering. Maybe this demonstration and deferring practice until after spring break will serve to resolve whatever it is and bring this team together. Or maybe not. I certainly believe a team must be a family and have each others backs or they will not be successful. No amount of changing assistant coaches or schemes is going to make much difference if the team internally divided.

I think the issue that the team is concerning themselves with is exactly what Striker discussed. It's no secret that football players go to Frat parties (it's been going on since I was in Norman years ago), and the racist behavior some players have experienced seems to be at the center of the issue. I don't believe that there is anything going on between players on the team (or we would have heard something about that...the players certainly weren't keeping things 'inside' when this all went down). Many of the players have acknowledged Stoops and the way he has let them deal with this (in their chosen way), and his support (and the support of all the coaches). So, I don't think there's a team issue. I think it's exactly what it looks like; the team reacting to the situation. Since Oklahoma is (and always will be) a football first school, it's where the media went first. Had this happened at Kentucky, it would have been the basketball team that was in focus.

If anything, I think this issue may just bring the team closer.

[8timechamps]

Gotta disagree. If this were Bama and Saban I guarantee you that the players would defer any public statments through Saban. Everything would be handled by Saban. Saban would be the face of the program until the uproar subsided..

Stoops has morphed into Mack Brown. The things that Mack did before his "resignation" are freakingly similiar to what Stoops has done over the past 2 seasons. From the coaching changes desparately trying to shift the blame for the team's poor on-the-field performance to this latest Mack-like action of trying to blend into the back ground and going out of his way to avoid stepping up to be the guy who is the face of the program during times of crisis while not making it clear that he has complete control of the direction of the program and that the buck stops at the office of the HC.

Instead he allows the players to create a spectacle that exacerbated the situation and hurt the University.

This is the first real professional crisis Bob has had and I am unconvinced that he can handle it.

In most cases, I would agree. In this case, the issue is so explosive, I think it would have been handled the same way had it been Alabama (or any other school). Can you imagine what would have happened if Stoops "prohibited" his players from commenting (or if it were Alabama, and Saban did that)? All hell would have broken loose, and it would have become a much larger issue.

Stoops did exactly what he should have done, he was out front, with his players, being supportive while letting them speak for themselves. It'd be kinda hard for Stoops to be the lone voice on this considering he isn't black and couldn't know what it feels like from his black player's perspective.

The way Stoops handled this had absolutely no ulterior motive, nor does it have any bearing on how the team has preformed, or how they will preform. Stoops is leading a lot of young men, and handled this situation exactly the way it should have been handled.

[graphster]

Keep in mind that there was also the issue with the recruit who decommitted and said it was because of the frat issue, which got a lot of national coverage. Even if that's not true (many people think he was going to decommit anyways), it's important for Stoops to send a strong message to re-assure other recruits and parents.

In terms of the national perception, my sense is that the reaction external to the program has largely been positive regarding the way Stoops and the football team have handled this issue. Which is important for recruiting.

We're also talking about spring practices here. It's not like they have a game next week.

[EatLeadCommie]

I don't think this issue is going to do squat for the team. Like somehow this incident, which will be forgotten by the time football season rolls around, is going to motivate them more than, say, the death of Austin Box?

The team's problems stem from coaching. That and only modest talent compared to past years. We got rid of most of the problem coaches but are still stuck with the same players. The better coaching should improve the team, but the ceiling is only so high.

[KantoSooner]

Graphster, I do know the the press in Australia have compared OU's reaction to that of OKC following the Murrah Bldg bombing and commenting that, when push comes to shove, people in Oklahoma have "that famous middle American knack" for getting things right.
Whatever that's worth.

[8timechamps]

I don't think this issue is going to do squat for the team. Like somehow this incident, which will be forgotten by the time football season rolls around, is going to motivate them more than, say, the death of Austin Box?

The team's problems stem from coaching. That and only modest talent compared to past years. We got rid of most of the problem coaches but are still stuck with the same players. The better coaching should improve the team, but the ceiling is only so high.

Is anyone saying that this incident will "motivate" the team? I sure didn't.

If you think that a team full of multi-racial 18-21 year old kids, experiencing something so horrific and coming together as a team, will have zero affect on them, then I can only assume you never played collegiate sports.

Again, this issue has nothing to do with how the team has or will preform.

[BoulderSooner79]

Is anyone saying that this incident will "motivate" the team? I sure didn't.

If you think that a team full of multi-racial 18-21 year old kids, experiencing something so horrific and coming together as a team, will have zero affect on them, then I can only assume you never played collegiate sports.

Again, this issue has nothing to do with how the team has or will preform.

I didn't say this event could motivate the team. But I did say it has the potential to unite them and I believe that. When I say "team", I'm including the coaching staff and that is the part I think is important. There are several new faces on the staff and lots of shuffling or responsibilities which means players will have different position coaches even if its a guy that was here last year. I don't think the players gave 100% effort to their coaches last year; a very subjective statement that's hard to prove, but that's what it looked like to me. If the coaches uniting behind the players on this protest has the effect of pulling them all together, it could have a big impact on the team. No guarantees, of course.

[cherokeebrewer]

I've yet to hear about this one on CNN at all, much less everyday for weeks like they covered the OU situation...yeah I feel picked on.

http://news.yahoo.com/university-maryland-kappa-sigma-racist-email-160926401.html;_ylt=AwrBT8MOJgdV5DEAi79XNyoA;_ylu= X3oDMTEza2hpazBjBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM1BHZ0aWQDVklQNT c3XzEEc2VjA3Ny


“Don’t invite any n----- gals or curry monsters or slanted eye chinks, unless they’re hot,” the email, addressed to six other members, reads in part. “Ziggy you’re [sic] girl can come she’s cool. Remember my n---as, erect, assert, and insert, and above all else, f--- consent.”

[8timechamps]

I didn't say this event could motivate the team. But I did say it has the potential to unite them and I believe that. When I say "team", I'm including the coaching staff and that is the part I think is important. There are several new faces on the staff and lots of shuffling or responsibilities which means players will have different position coaches even if its a guy that was here last year. I don't think the players gave 100% effort to their coaches last year; a very subjective statement that's hard to prove, but that's what it looked like to me. If the coaches uniting behind the players on this protest has the effect of pulling them all together, it could have a big impact on the team. No guarantees, of course.

Agreed. I think it will serve to unite the team (and strengthen the bond). It may, or may not have any affect on their performance, but it will certainly make the group closer. I also think the players have greatly appreciated the way Stoops has handled this (many have said as much), and I believe you're also correct about helping to gel the new coaches and the team. I believe this whole thing will end up as a positive (not only for the football team, but the university as a whole) in the long run.

[Harris County Sooner]

copied from The News Wire

Perhaps not-so-coincidentally, Jean Delance, the No. 12 offensive tackle in the country according to Rivals and the No. 12 class of 2016 prospect in the state of Texas, tweeted he got an offer from Alabama Monday afternoon. Officially offered by the University Of Alabama!! #RollTideRoll

Apparently, history, which in this instance IS on OUr side, shows OU's Bud Wilkinson recruited Prentice Gautt out of OKC Douglass who would go on to play for the Sooners from 1956-59.

Alabama finally got around to allowing a black athlete on their storied program in 1971. #WhatTookYouSoLong?

Not exactly. Gautt went to OU on a scholarship funded by some OKC businessmen. Bud later gave him a scolly.

[Mazeppa]

I didn't see this article in this thread, but if it is sorry.

Dennis Dodd
CBSSports.com

What would Prentice Gautt have thought about SAE and Oklahoma?
March 13, 2015 6:22 pm ET
Prentice Gautt passed away 10 years ago but his thoughtfulness would be useful today. (USATSI)
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- SAE and Oklahoma aren't going away anytime soon. That much is assured. In a story broad enough to lead Good Morning America, the midday talk shows and the nightly news, sadly disquieting but marketable elements are in place.
Racism, bigotry, sports, law, even recruiting.
" ... I definitely would have reconsidered making my decision if it would have happened like that," OU forward TaShawn Thomas told a small group of reporters here at the Big 12 tournament.
OU football players have marched in solidarity, skipping spring practice since the damaging video debuted. They have taken the initiative, kept the issue alive -- on campus and nationally. Now comes the news that Sigma Alpha Epsilon is considering legal action against Oklahoma.
All of it reminds us that things aren't getting better anytime soon at Oklahoma. Former coach Barry Switzer has urged critics not to paint the fraternity with a broad brush, the same thing those kids in the video did with their racial slurs.
In the slimy world of recruiting, the hope is that rival coaches don't cross a moral boundary. But usually, negative recruiting knows no boundaries. The sense is at least some rival recruiters have the SAE video loaded on their phone, eager to show prospects a reason not to attend OU.
"Yes, the opponents will use it against us," Switzer told me this week. "No question."
One thought, though, keeps coming to mind: What would Prentice Gautt think?
Gautt was the kindest, gentlest, most thoughtful person a lot of us have ever known. Monday will mark the 10th anniversary of his death at age 67. His life still endures. We wept when he passed not just because of the end but because of the end of his wisdom.
You see, Gautt didn't have to actually talk to be heard. It was the way he carried himself, his class, the way he lived, what he went through. Prentice Gautt was the first African-American football player at Oklahoma.
The school was segregated until 1950. The final restrictions weren't dropped until May 1955. Even when Gautt joined the Sooners in 1956, his coach -- Bud Wilkinson -- was pressured against giving him that first scholarship.
Gautt broke down barriers while breaking tackles. Most of all, he never broke. Oh, they tried. Author Jim Dent's account of Gautt's college days in The Undefeated will bring tears to your eyes.
In 1957, Gautt wasn't allowed to stay at the team hotel in Fort Worth for the Texas game. At the time, Texas laws didn't allow African-Americans to stay at white-only hotels, Dent wrote. The team stood firm and made sure that Gautt was able to at least eat breakfast with them the morning of the game.
"Guys, Prentice Gautt is our teammate," Dent quoted tackle Jim Lawrence as saying. "Last night, he didn't get to stay at our hotel because he's colored. Godammit, that's a shame. Football teams are supposed to stick together."
Dent wrote: "The Sooners were still buzzing when Wilkinson assembled them minutes before kickoff at the Cotton Bowl: 'Win this one for Prentice Gautt.' He didn't need to say another word. The Sooners almost ran over the coaches and everyone else for that matter, as they roared down the long tunnel toward the playing field."
The Sooners won 21-7.
Twice, Gautt was an All-Big Eight running back. He was an Academic All-American and MVP of the 1959 Orange Bowl. Gautt went on to earn a master's and doctorate in psychology. He played eight years in the NFL.
If there was a reason to be bitter, Gautt had it. Dent wrote that Wilkinson received "hate mail" as Gautt's debut approached. Undercover police worked practice and games for protection.
If that bitterness ever existed at all, it didn't show. Gautt's subsequent career in college sports administration working for the Big Eight and Big 12 touched a lot of us. Walk in that old conference office in downtown Kansas City and Gautt always greeted with his signature, "How are you?"
And he meant it.
"Gentle, kind, perceptive, deep," recalled College Football Playoff executive director Bill Hancock, who worked with Gautt at the Big Eight. "He always wanted to know how things worked and always wanted to know what people were thinking. The best listener I've ever known."
"Coach Wilkinson knew his character or he wouldn't have been there," Gautt's former OU roommate Jakie Sandefer once said.
It might be arrogant to predict what influence Gautt would have on the current situation. But can we all agree his presence would help? He would be 76 today. His wisdom no doubt would have been valued in this knee-jerk society. Perhaps he would have directed us to the words of Jean Delance. It was Delance who made national news by decommitting from OU when the video hit.
Delance told Bleacher Report, "My grandmother's people picked cotton" and that it would be "disrespectful" to her to play at OU.
Perhaps he would have pointed out fairly that other Oklahoma recruits are staying with their commitments. Gautt might have even joined hands with Bob Stoops and those Sooners in the show of solidarity.
Most likely, he would have somehow diffused the tension, perhaps with a greeting accompanied by those kind, gentle eyes -- always making it about the other person -- saying, "How are you?"

[Harris County Sooner]

great post