Deflategate - aka the importance of regular and thorough ball palpitation

[soonergirlNeugene]

The extent of my NFL interest involves rooting for former Sooners, so I don't really have a stake in this particular topic, but I found the 5-year statistical analysis in this particular article to be fascinating. Sure stands to reason that this is as close as anyone will get towards proving that anything sketchy was happening beyond that one game.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

[8timechamps]

The whole thing is laughable.

First, Tom Brady stands in front of the press with a straight face and says he didn't realize anything was different about the balls. So, either they've been deflating them since before he arrived, or he's just flat out lying. There's no way a QB wouldn't notice the deflated ball.

Then, today, Belichick stood in front of the media and basically blamed the conditions in New England. The guy is a proven cheater. I don't know how either of these guys were able to keep a straight face while talking to the media.

[Aries]

One commentator I was listening to on TV this morning said in his opinion, this would not really hurt Brady's legacy at all. But it would pretty much tarnish Belichick's for good. I'm inclined to agree. I think he said assuming it is proven the Pat's intentionally did something.

[Curly Bill]

The whole thing makes me YAWN really really big!

[aurorasooner]

Thx for the link. Interesting analysis.

It'll be interesting to see in the next approx 15 games or so (Super Bowl + next years regular season) if NE can continue their extraordinary lack of putting the ball on the ground now that the ball pressure will be monitored by the refs to conform to the rules.

I also would think that CFB would have have a similar rule to the NFL regarding the football pressure range, but I don't really know, and don't really know if the college zebras even check the ball pressure of a game football or they just take it for granted that teams will conform to the rules. LOL if they do.
I would like see the refs check the footballs at minimum of so many times/game by rule (randomly) throughout a game, and if the footballs don't conform to the rules, then the offending team gets a warning for the 1st infraction, but any subsequent infractions, they would get a 15 yarder for unsportsmanlike conduct

My personal opinion fwiw is that Bill Belicheat and Tom Shady lied their azzes off to the press and they've probably been doing the under inflation thing for a number of years especially in the wet weather games. I don't think it's necessarily for Brady's throwing benefit as much as it is for making the ball easier to grip by the RBs and WRs and thus not fumbling and missing critical receptions.

[Curly Bill]

Having footballs aired up to within the rules sure did put a crimp in their game the second half against Indy! Bahahahahaha

I mean, all their success the last several years being due to underinflated footballs, and to play so well without that wondrous advantage - shocking I tell ya, just shocking!

[olevetonahill]

The whole thing makes me YAWN really really big!

Yup
Who GAF?
I aint watched a NFL game since Sam went down

[olevetonahill]

Try this!
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/24/expert-explains-protocol-with-nfl-game-balls/fCtQ38pBjBFXId0WJC2wpL/story.html

[Breadburner]

Both coaches in the superbowl are dickheads....

[8timechamps]

Both coaches in the superbowl are dickheads....

I've never disliked two Super Bowl teams so much. If I wasn't such a fan, I wouldn't watch the game. It should be a good one though.

[soonergirlNeugene]

I don't really care about either. If we had more Sooners involved maybe. But otherwise it's just the last real football game for months. It's kinda like an alcoholic trying to get by on mouthwash or something.

[BoulderSooner79]

The whole thing is laughable.

First, Tom Brady stands in front of the press with a straight face and says he didn't realize anything was different about the balls. So, either they've been deflating them since before he arrived, or he's just flat out lying. There's no way a QB wouldn't notice the deflated ball.

Then, today, Belichick stood in front of the media and basically blamed the conditions in New England. The guy is a proven cheater. I don't know how either of these guys were able to keep a straight face while talking to the media.

A 15 year veteran QB could detect a 2 lb PSI difference immediately. Brady's lying.

If it was the weather conditions, then the Colts footballs would also be down the same amount. Did they bother to check those? Belichick is lying.

It's that old philosophy that "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'" and Americans eat it up. They'll probably get slapped with a fine and maybe a draft pick just like spygate. The draft pick seems like a big deal, but in reality it will just free up some cap to buy a proven free agent and let some other team take their chances on a rookie.

[BoulderSooner79]

Both coaches in the superbowl are dickheads....

This is fact.

[Salt City Sooner]

I've never disliked two Super Bowl teams so much. If I wasn't such a fan, I wouldn't watch the game. It should be a good one though.
x 2. The only vested interest I have in it is that I'd like to see David King get a ring. Other than that, may it end up a 0-0 tie after 100 OT's.

[EatLeadCommie]

Total nonscandal

[vtsooner21]

Hell, Blount could have slashed his way through the Colt Defense carrying a beachball. In the game overall, the Patriots had more rush attempts than pass attempts, and having "cheated" in the first half only, I'm wondering what effect it really had. As stated in an earlier post, both coaches in the upcoming game aren't shining examples of what coaches should be...

Boomer

[Therealsouthsider]

.....you know, I don't quite recall the game being stopped at any time because the other QB was complaining to the refs or the other teams coaches calling time out because their players were telling to them that the ball didn't seem quite right....hmmm

....sounds like a bunch of crybabies and sore losers to me


ss

[Soonerjeepman]

all I know is my balls are always under the right amount of pressure, it just wouldn't be fair~

[BoulderSooner79]

Hell, Blount could have slashed his way through the Colt Defense carrying a beachball...

True, but irrelevant. Cheating is cheating regardless of the outcome of the game.


... As stated in an earlier post, both coaches in the upcoming game aren't shining examples of what coaches should be...

Boomer

And as I stated in an earlier post, Americans eat this up. So you can expect the NFL to react accordingly - some kind of organizational punishment that will not have any real impact on the Pats.

[SoonerorLater]

all I know is my balls are always under the right amount of pressure, it just wouldn't be fair~

I think we all will just have to take your word for it and let it go at that.

[8timechamps]

I'm certainly not saying that the Patriots had to cheat to beat Indy, because that's obviously nonsense. They could have beaten the Colts while using a nerf ball. The issue is the pattern emerging from New England. If there were never any other accusations of cheating, this would probably have gone away within a day. Since this is at least the second time something has been discovered, it does become a story.

Cheating is cheating.

[soonergirlNeugene]

I don't think it was the difference maker in that game. In fact, I haven't heard anybody saying that. But if you look at the statistics presented in that article, something certainly has made a huge difference over the course of the past 5 years for the patriots. With a 0.0000616 chance that we are looking at sheer coincidence, something has to explain the deviation in their numbers compared with every other NFL team in every other 5 year period in the league's history. That these deflated balls are used by the Patriots on a regular basis certainly seems plausible.

[Pride1Mom]

I guess this issue is supposed to make domestic violence to disappear because how much air is in the football is much more important. What a smoke screen to all of the other things happening in the sport...drugs, dirty play, etc.

[vtsooner21]

"Cheating is cheating regardless of the outcome of the game"...Hmmm A flair for stating the obvious. If you have any proof, please forward it to the NFL Commissioner's Office immediately. Until something of fact shows itself (And I'm hoping that it does, incidentally) this issue can only be used in the mass media as fodder or as the end product of it.

Boomer

[olevetonahill]

I guess this issue is supposed to make domestic violence to disappear because how much air is in the football is much more important. What a smoke screen to all of the other things happening in the sport...drugs, dirty play, etc.

Get back in the Kitchen! Men are talking.

[BoulderSooner79]

"Cheating is cheating regardless of the outcome of the game"...Hmmm A flair for stating the obvious...
Boomer

One would certainly think so, but a large percentage of postings (including yours) preface the implication of cheating with the fact that it didn't change the outcome of this game. That red herring is so broadly stated, that the obvious doesn't appear to be so obvious.

[olevetonahill]

One would certainly think so, but a large percentage of postings (including yours) preface the implication of cheating with the fact that it didn't change the outcome of this game. That red herring is so broadly stated, that the obvious doesn't appear to be so obvious.

I have no clue if it changed the outcome or not, NOR DO I CARE.

[Breadburner]

It didnt change the outcome of this game but the rate of how many plays they run and how much they fumble (at home) is very interesting.......

[BoulderSooner79]

The issue is the integrity of the sport, not this particular game. My guess is that the outcome will be similar to spygate - a decent size fine and probably forfeiting a draft pick for NE. Another rational outcome would be to tighten up the game ball handling procedures and perhaps spelling out the penalties for a violation like this. I've seen the 12.5-13.5PSI compliance limits published everywhere, but not one mention of penalties for being out of compliance. That makes no sense - if there is no penalty, then there really isn't a rule.

As far as being any proof of wrongdoing - there doesn't need to be any. The league gives teams plenty of leeway on "doctoring" the balls the week before a game with the requirement that the balls meet standards on game day. If the balls are not in compliance, the team should be penalized whether the cause was tampering or negligence. The actual air pressure in the footballs is all the proof that is needed.

[olevetonahill]

The issue is the integrity of the sport, not this particular game. My guess is that the outcome will be similar to spygate - a decent size fine and probably forfeiting a draft pick for NE. Another rational outcome would be to tighten up the game ball handling procedures and perhaps spelling out the penalties for a violation like this. I've seen the 12.5-13.5PSI compliance limits published everywhere, but not one mention of penalties for being out of compliance. That makes no sense - if there is no penalty, then there really isn't a rule.

As far as being any proof of wrongdoing - there doesn't need to be any. The league gives teams plenty of leeway on "doctoring" the balls the week before a game with the requirement that the balls meet standards on game day. If the balls are not in compliance, the team should be penalized whether the cause was tampering or negligence. The actual air pressure in the footballs is all the proof that is needed.

Like I said I dont GAS . But why is there a RULE in the 1st place? I think each team should be able to set the pressure to whatever works best for their QBs hands.
Maybe that just makes too much sense for them.
If there must be a set pressure then shouldnt there be a rule that says every NFL QB has to have close to the same size hands?:welcoming:

[BoulderSooner79]

Like I said I dont GAS . But why is there a RULE in the 1st place? I think each team should be able to set the pressure to whatever works best for their QBs hands.
Maybe that just makes too much sense for them.
If there must be a set pressure then shouldnt there be a rule that says every NFL QB has to have close to the same size hands?:welcoming:

Having a +/- .5lb range of variance out of a 13lb standard is actually pretty generous for the team to customize. The league could expand on that or get rid of the rule altogether, but I doubt it. But if they do have a rule, then need to enforce it or it creates an unlevel playing field.

There actually is an implicit rule on QB hand size just given the size of the ball. But that is no different than the implicit rules that require a certain size, strength, speed, age range, etc. just to have a glimmer of hope to play in the NFL. I would guess a very high percentage of people are eliminated from an NFL hopes the second the sperm hits the egg (I was).

And as far as you not GAS - you'll GAS if I have to come over there and make you GAS, old man.
:boxing:

[olevetonahill]

Having a +/- .5lb range of variance out of a 13lb standard is actually pretty generous for the team to customize. The league could expand on that or get rid of the rule altogether, but I doubt it. But if they do have a rule, then need to enforce it or it creates an unlevel playing field.

There actually is an implicit rule on QB hand size just given the size of the ball. But that is no different than the implicit rules that require a certain size, strength, speed, age range, etc. just to have a glimmer of hope to play in the NFL. I would guess a very high percentage of people are eliminated from an NFL hopes the second the sperm hits the egg (I was).


And as far as you not GAS - you'll GAS if I have to come over there and make you GAS, old man.
:boxing:

Come on Bro, we drink a beer and Take a big shot of OVJ and while yer eyes are all blurry and watery Ill just shoot ya http://www.olevetpossehideout.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[BoulderSooner79]

Come on Bro, we drink a beer and Take a big shot of OVJ and while yer eyes are all blurry and watery Ill just shoot ya http://www.olevetpossehideout.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

At least I'll get the OVJ.

[olevetonahill]

At least I'll get the OVJ.

Yea, I wouldnt shoot ya anyway. I save that for Idiot Lawyers and texans LOL

[Eielson]

As pretty much everybody has said, it didn't change the outcome of the game. The Patriots have been involved in way too much foul play, and the fact that guys like Belichick still have jobs is almost as ridiculous as Calipari having a job in NCAAB. I'm not going to get too worked up about it, though. Belichick will be dead by the next time my Rams are in the Super Bowl, so I won't have to worry about them stealing our plays again.

[KantoSooner]

Ah! discussions regarding punishment. My favorite.

Okay, Brady doesn't like rules. He doesn't want to play by them. Fine. Exempt him from the rules. Like, oh, personal fouls. Just let Suh know that no flags will be thrown no matter what he does to Brady. No matter if the whistle's blown or not. Hell, he could walk over during warm-ups and just start bitch slapping Brady for no reason. No consequences.

I'd pay money to watch something like that.

[EatLeadCommie]

I believe the punishment in place is $25k. Isn't that what Carolina and Minnesota were fined for heating their balls earlier this season?

This is quickly dropping off the headlines because there is nothing to it.

[SoonerBBall]

I'd like some evidence that this type of doctoring is any worse than the doctoring that most other QBs employ. Rodgers says he likes them inflated to the max. Is that beyond the league specifications? Why no uproar about that?

I'm not even an NFL fan, but this whole thing seems much ado about nothing.

[BoulderSooner79]

I'd like some evidence that this type of doctoring is any worse than the doctoring that most other QBs employ. Rodgers says he likes them inflated to the max. Is that beyond the league specifications? Why no uproar about that?

I'm not even an NFL fan, but this whole thing seems much ado about nothing.

I guarantee Rodgers is not saying that GB inflates their footballs beyond the max. That would be like a pitcher saying he does use a spitball and daring the umpire to catch him doing it.

The big deal is the possibility that NE has found a way to subvert the checking process.

[SoonerBBall]

That seems to be exactly what he is saying.


Via Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston.com, at least one possibly does. Reiss notes that, during the November 30 game between the Packers and Patriots on CBS, Jim Nantz and Phil Simms discussed the preference by quarterback Aaron Rodgers (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3118/aaron-rodgers) for overinflated balls (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4776728/jim-nantz-phil-simms-discussion-adds-context-to-deflated-football-talk).“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.
Simms pointed out that Rodgers is the exception.
“Everybody wants it smaller and soft, so they can dig their fingers into,” Simms said. “[Rodgers is] such a feel thrower. You can tell. The one touchdown he threw down the field to the tight end is such feel; then he flicks it. That shows you he just has great control of it, with his fingers and hand.”
On his weekly radio show with ESPN Milwaukee, Rodgers confirmed that he prefers the balls to be overinflated, and that he doesn’t think there should be a maximum air pressure.
“It’s not an advantage (https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/557642189883572224) when you have a football that’s inflated more than average air pressure. We’re not kicking these footballs,” Rodgers said, via Rob Demovsky of ESPN.com.

[BoulderSooner79]

That seems to be exactly what he is saying.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

I guess he is and that is what NE was doing in the other direction. He is correct that overinflating doesn't change the ball much compared to underinflating - once it's rock hard, it won't feel any harder. But that's no excuse to exceed limits.

One thing is for sure - the refs will be checking the GB footballs in the future. And you can bank on the footballs in the super bowl being checked early and often :D

[SoonerBBall]

The whole thing is ridiculous on its face. If the NFL cares about fairness and football inflation, it should have 24 game balls controlled by the refs the whole time and used interchangeably by both teams. What is the compelling reason to allow a several hour period where teams can mess with the balls with no additional oversight with a very few exceptions.

[BoulderSooner79]

The whole thing is ridiculous on its face. If the NFL cares about fairness and football inflation, it should have 24 game balls controlled by the refs the whole time and used interchangeably by both teams. What is the compelling reason to allow a several hour period where teams can mess with the balls with no additional oversight with a very few exceptions.

From what I've read, it used to be closer to that situation (but not with teams sharing). Then the NFL gave into Manning and other QBs wanting to "break in" the balls prior to gameday. I understand that neither the QBs nor the league want to use brand new footballs that have a slick surface coating. But this could all be handled by technology. The NFL could put requirements on footballs that the coating has been wore off from the manufacturer. It would be very easy to have a machine do this and the result would be predictable. If they still wanted to have some amount of customization, they could do that too. The QB could dial in the desired pressure and level of wear within the legal ranges and the ball would never have to leave the officials possession.