FSU, An Update

[KantoSooner]

Since many know only dimly remember the causes for referring to FSU as 'Free Shoes U', may I suggest that the name be updated to 'Forcible Sex U'? It seems more in keeping with their current behavior and identity.

[rock on sooner]

Just saw over on CNN that the young woman that Winston "allegedly" assaulted
is suing FSU and, that she can still sue Winston in civil court. Since he's gonna be
a top pick and several millions richer, I'm thinkin' that she is gonna smack him
around in court later this summer (at least before statute of limitation expires.)

[KantoSooner]

Among others. FSU themselves have very deep pockets and $5-10 million would make a lot of humiliation go away.

[SoonerForLife92]

Still don't see any conclusive proof that Winston raped this girl that was a self proclaimed "cleat-chaser".

[BoulderSooner79]

I'll bet Jimbo Fisher is just as glad now that Winston is gone as he was when Winston committed 3 years ago.

[lexsooner]

FSU = F---ing, Stealing, Unchecked.

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm behind - I'm still way back at the Free Seafood U days.

[Eielson]

I'm behind - I'm still way back at the Free Seafood U days.

Technically, you're ahead of everybody. I'm pretty sure the forcible sex was before the free seafood.

[TAFBSooner]

Go back and explain the Free Shoes bit. And where can I get a ringtone?

[rock on sooner]

Still don't see any conclusive proof that Winston raped this girl that was a self proclaimed "cleat-chaser".

Welp, there's no "proof" that I've read about, but, I can say with absolute
certainty that when this type of stuff comes out that there is an end result
of what he did was what he was accused of....that kid has such a record
of being in trouble that he and the University are gonna pay a lot of $$$
to that young woman and her legal team...mostly the legal team...

[SoonerForLife92]

Welp, there's no "proof" that I've read about, but, I can say with absolute
certainty that when this type of stuff comes out that there is an end result
of what he did was what he was accused of....that kid has such a record
of being in trouble that he and the University are gonna pay a lot of $$$
to that young woman and her legal team...mostly the legal team...

I don't see why they should have to. The only thing she could say is that they did not conduct the Title IX appropriately... however doing that "appropriately" screwed Frank Shannon and could have potentially ruined his football career, all for something that the girl changed her story of accusations and no chargers were pressed. You're right though they probably will... and to me that is WRONG. Just as wrong as what they did to Frank Shannon. Well I guess with your logic Frank must have done it as well.

[BoulderSooner79]

It's easy to assume that Winston is guilty due to his very public character issues. But stealing seafood and signing jerseys and shouting an obscene internet meme is a long way from sexual assault. The way the police and University dragged their feet makes him look even more guilty, but that could as easily be explained by incompetence or the woman's lack of credibility. I can't help but doubt him, but I'm sure the majority of FSU fans think he is the victim and the woman is trash.

The opposite is true for Shannon. There is nothing that came out in public that would make someone think he did anything illegal or in violation of student conduct. So Sooner fans all think he has been treated unjustly. But I can't shake the fact that least 3 people on a committee of 5 people came to the conclusion that he did violate the student code. That's the problem with these made up proceedings that don't follow established law and then seal all the transcripts - there is no way to know, so people fill in the facts with their prejudice. I'm just going to assume there was something that justified the committee's decision and that Shannon will serve the suspension and come back and put it all behind him. I don't know if Shannon is NFL material, but if he is, I think that OU's swift action will have put this issue to bed while the FSU bungling will dog Winston for a long time.

[rock on sooner]

I don't see why they should have to. The only thing she could say is that they did not conduct the Title IX appropriately... however doing that "appropriately" screwed Frank Shannon and could have potentially ruined his football career, all for something that the girl changed her story of accusations and no chargers were pressed. You're right though they probably will... and to me that is WRONG. Just as wrong as what they did to Frank Shannon. Well I guess with your logic Frank must have done it as well.

I know very little about the Shannon issue...your assumption
about my logic is flawed. What I do believe, though, is what
I said about Winston...the kid is misguided, mishandled and
problematical.....

[SoonerForLife92]

I know very little about the Shannon issue...your assumption
about my logic is flawed. What I do believe, though, is what
I said about Winston...the kid is misguided, mishandled and
problematical.....


I can say with absolute
certainty that when this type of stuff comes out that there is an end result
of what he did was what he was accused of....

Well you did say that.. ^ but I understand what you mean.

Also I don't completely disagree.. but just because a kid took crab legs that someone at the store probably offered him and they were going to be thrown out anyway (I don't know all the specifics of that situation that's just what I heard) and yelled an obscene internet meme (which yea with his circumstances was incredibly stupid) does not make him a rapist. I don't want to get into all this again because I've argued enough about it on a previous thread, but many things in the girls story didn't add up. Also nothing ever came of her attorney trying to get an outside investigation into the police procedures that many claim were done wrong, with no real basis to their claims.

As I said she probably will get a settlement for the Title IX specifics not being implemented correctly, but I still think that is wrong and doing them "correctly" could potentially ruin a young mans life (Shannon). Now of course Frank should be able to pursue other things in his life but so many of these guys come in with football being what they are all about, and Frank seemed to be a special player. I just hope he can compete at the level he was before, for the team's sake and mainly for his.

[KantoSooner]

SFL92,
You're entitled to believe what you want but there are hard facts that can not be gotten around: an accusation of forcible rape was made. Three police departments ignored that accusation at the behest of the university athletic department. The university violated their own Title IX investigatory and adjudicative procedures....until such time as the accused had delivered to the university the full measure of his athletic worth to them. Those are utterly beyond any question whatsoever.
Ironically, FSU has, through attempting to evade legitimate legal and regulatory process, put the actual facts of the case into the category of 'moot'. So now they will end up paying for the cover-up rather than the crime.
What was that old saw about the wheels of justice grinding slow but exceedingly fine.....?

[SoonerForLife92]

SFL92,
You're entitled to believe what you want but there are hard facts that can not be gotten around: an accusation of forcible rape was made. Three police departments ignored that accusation at the behest of the university athletic department. The university violated their own Title IX investigatory and adjudicative procedures....until such time as the accused had delivered to the university the full measure of his athletic worth to them. Those are utterly beyond any question whatsoever.
Ironically, FSU has, through attempting to evade legitimate legal and regulatory process, put the actual facts of the case into the category of 'moot'. So now they will end up paying for the cover-up rather than the crime.
What was that old saw about the wheels of justice grinding slow but exceedingly fine.....?

I see no hard facts. The facts I see were that the rape kit performed hours after the alleged assault showed her BAC no where near being what it would have to for her to be blackout drunk the night before. No drugs found either. How is that ignoring the accusation? This girl was a self proclaimed "cleat-chaser" and many facts in her story did not add up. The title IX procedures were not correctly followed and I already said that. I also said that following them "correctly" could potentially ruin someones football career when they were innocent. I think Shannon is innocent because I take the opinion of the girl not wanting to press charges over what some committee of five people think is correct.

[KantoSooner]

And you'll find no shortage of agreement from me on the topic of Shannon or of Title IX or of administrative law in general. Regarding the 'investigation' rather than attempting to rehash from my memory or to repost the lengthy NYT article(s), I refer you to them. You'll find them at the Times website. In short, the rape kit was not properly administered and the file was left to rot for months, dragging on into years, until such time as a public stink was raised. There was no police investigation. Ever. And quite intentionally so.
That's at very least dereliction of duty; perhaps conspiracy after the fact.

[SoonerForLife92]

And you'll find no shortage of agreement from me on the topic of Shannon or of Title IX or of administrative law in general. Regarding the 'investigation' rather than attempting to rehash from my memory or to repost the lengthy NYT article(s), I refer you to them. You'll find them at the Times website. In short, the rape kit was not properly administered and the file was left to rot for months, dragging on into years, until such time as a public stink was raised. There was no police investigation. Ever. And quite intentionally so.
That's at very least dereliction of duty; perhaps conspiracy after the fact.

Well there most certainly was a police report. I can give you the link to the 86 page report if you would like. However that report seems to be a year late now that I looked at it again so it could just strengthen the argument that an investigation was not conducted correctly. I'll have to read it again.

However there is no solid evidence to prove the rape kit was mishandled. There is also no solid proof against the initially stated facts that this girl was completely coherent texting her friends before and after the little bit of time she spent with Jameis. Her friend was also the one who talked her into filing the report. In my opinion she cheated on her boyfriend Jamal Roberts and felt bad about it. There are also pictures with the accuser and Jameis even though she claimed not to know him, at least I think... I haven't looked in a while, that could have been disproven. I could give you her name if you'd like, and you could see how she was a self proclaimed "cleat-chaser." In my opinion Jameis was not the only one involved with this that had character issues.

[BoulderSooner79]

... I think Shannon is innocent because I take the opinion of the girl not wanting to press charges over what some committee of five people think is correct.

The girl did speak to the title IX committee and I don't believe there is any legal way they could force her to do so. The DA often decides not to press charges because they don't feel they have a chance to win the case, not because they necessarily think a person is innocent. Conversely, they can press charges even if the victim doesn't want to. Victims of sexual assault often don't want to press charges because the process is grueling and often puts them in the position of defending themselves. I'm not implying in any way that Shannon did something to justify his suspension. I'm just saying there is not enough public information available to form an opinion, so I'm trying not to.

[KantoSooner]

It's appropriate to hold to the 'innocent until proven guilty' stance....for a while. And, in Shannon's case, when the alleged victim wants the process stopped and takes positive steps to see it stopped, and the DA refuses to bring charges, it seems the appropriate stance to maintain.
L'Affair Winston, however, is a different kettle of fish. Go read the NYT article and you may rethink your position. I started off with precisely the opinion you hold now.
I changed my mind.

[SoonerForLife92]

It's appropriate to hold to the 'innocent until proven guilty' stance....for a while. And, in Shannon's case, when the alleged victim wants the process stopped and takes positive steps to see it stopped, and the DA refuses to bring charges, it seems the appropriate stance to maintain.
L'Affair Winston, however, is a different kettle of fish. Go read the NYT article and you may rethink your position. I started off with precisely the opinion you hold now.
I changed my mind.

One article from NYtimes is not going to change my opinion formed from multiple sources and looking at the accucer's social networks that are posted on places on the internet despite her taking them down. Unless the article you speak of contains absolute proof of trauma to the girl and/or drugs in her system or a high BAC level, then it proves nothing. Does the article give absolute proof that the rape kit wasn't performed? There is no way to know either way, whether the investigation was mishandeled or not (it obviously was). I still hold my stance though, and honestly neither of our points of view on winston's guilt or innocence can be proven. I can still give you her name if you'd like... It could be fake though like I said I haven't researched all this in a while.

I'll still read the nytimes article when I get a chance though... Unless it's not recent, then i've already read it.

[KantoSooner]

As you please. For me, too many coincidences. Too many, 'Aw Shoot, I erased that film only a day before the cops asked for it" (some months after the complaint and a day or two after the cops were forced to begin the investigation they were obligated to do months earlier). Over and over and over again. At some point I stopped believing that the coin was going to land on 'heads' for the 9 millionth time in a row out of sheer chance.

And at that point, I stopped seeing a young man caught up in the glare of big time college football and started to see a sonovabitch smiling at us all in the full knowledge that not a damn thing was going to happen to him. Because he knew damn well that the fix was in.

But, hey, if you still see his momma's little boy, you go right ahead.

[SoonerForLife92]

As you please. For me, too many coincidences. Too many, 'Aw Shoot, I erased that film only a day before the cops asked for it" (some months after the complaint and a day or two after the cops were forced to begin the investigation they were obligated to do months earlier). Over and over and over again. At some point I stopped believing that the coin was going to land on 'heads' for the 9 millionth time in a row out of sheer chance.

And at that point, I stopped seeing a young man caught up in the glare of big time college football and started to see a sonovabitch smiling at us all in the full knowledge that not a damn thing was going to happen to him. Because he knew damn well that the fix was in.

But, hey, if you still see his momma's little boy, you go right ahead.

Never said I saw him like that. I see the girl for who she was and her character too though.

[Eielson]

Best case scenario, Winston is a slut.

[KantoSooner]

Never said I saw him like that. I see the girl for who she was and her character too though.

Fair enough. Also fair to point out that even hookers get raped...and the cops rarely investigate their claims, either. Doesn't make it not rape, though.

[SoonerForLife92]

Fair enough. Also fair to point out that even hookers get raped...and the cops rarely investigate their claims, either. Doesn't make it not rape, though.

True, but that's a sexual job that is also illegal

[KantoSooner]

You know very well the point being made.
Look, you believe CrabLegs Rapeyboy is innocent, I don't. Considering that neither one of us is calling the legal shots, that's about all we get to say. If this thread annoys you, you can put it, or me, on 'ignore'.

[SoonerForLife92]

You know very well the point being made.
Look, you believe CrabLegs Rapeyboy is innocent, I don't. Considering that neither one of us is calling the legal shots, that's about all we get to say. If this thread annoys you, you can put it, or me, on 'ignore'.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you personally annoy me. I have no reason to put you on ignore? I just wanted to state my opinion from all the reasearch I did.

[8timechamps]

I don't see why they should have to. The only thing she could say is that they did not conduct the Title IX appropriately... however doing that "appropriately" screwed Frank Shannon and could have potentially ruined his football career, all for something that the girl changed her story of accusations and no chargers were pressed. You're right though they probably will... and to me that is WRONG. Just as wrong as what they did to Frank Shannon. Well I guess with your logic Frank must have done it as well.

In Shannon's case, I don't think the girl ever changed her story. In fact, I think she was pretty vocal about not pursuing anything right from the beginning. From what I was able to gather, the whole thing started from a friend of hers. I'm not clear as to how the friend came to know about the situation, but the bottom line was that Frank didn't do anything. It was over before anything happened. That's why I still don't understand what the title IX review board was looking at when they reached their decision. In essence, Frank got the maximum penalty (or close to it) for not having sex with the girl, and she didn't want to pursue any kind of investigation/charges. She refused to cooperate with the title IX investigation too.

Talk about the system screwing someone.

I do think that title IX is and should be an important part of the student judicial system, and that sexual assault on campuses (across the country) needs to be stopped. However, this had the feeling of a witch hunt from the start.

[KantoSooner]

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you personally annoy me. I have no reason to put you on ignore? I just wanted to state my opinion from all the reasearch I did.
Good enough. We're cool. Thanks

[BoulderSooner79]

In essence, Frank got the maximum penalty (or close to it) for not having sex with the girl, and she didn't want to pursue any kind of investigation/charges. She refused to cooperate with the title IX investigation too.



I have never read where she refused to cooperate with the title IX investigation. This quote was from a Tramel article in newsok.com, but I had read it in other places:


Shannon had been accused of sexual assault, but the district attorney declined to press charges when the accuser said she didn’t want to testify. Both Shannon and the accuser testified before the OU Title IX board.

Maybe testifying isn't necessarily cooperating, but I never saw a disclaimer about her testimony. There had to be something the committee used as a basis for their conclusion. I'm not saying I would buy it if I saw it, but something has to exist or Shannon would have a great libel case against the university. I have to believe Shannon was given an explanation for the suspension and if was completely bogus, I can't imagine why he is still here. I guess he could be the ultimate pragmatist and stay because it's the best football decision, but hard to imagine him playing his heart out for OU under those circumstances.

[8timechamps]

I have never read where she refused to cooperate with the title IX investigation. This quote was from a Tramel article in newsok.com, but I had read it in other places:



Maybe testifying isn't necessarily cooperating, but I never saw a disclaimer about her testimony. There had to be something the committee used as a basis for their conclusion. I'm not saying I would buy it if I saw it, but something has to exist or Shannon would have a great libel case against the university. I have to believe Shannon was given an explanation for the suspension and if was completely bogus, I can't imagine why he is still here. I guess he could be the ultimate pragmatist and stay because it's the best football decision, but hard to imagine him playing his heart out for OU under those circumstances.

I was confusing the title IX interview with the police. I know she refused to cooperate with the police, and wouldn't press charges. I assumed she remained silent with the Title IX board too (that's what I get for assuming).

It's not hard to imagine why Shannon is still here, where else is he gonna go? If he transferred, he'd be sitting out a year anyway, and then who knows if he would fit in a new program. Staying at OU (keep in mind, he was a big time OU fan in high school) was the easiest solution. He also knows his chance at regaining his starting position is pretty good (and at the very least, he's going to play a lot). He just watched his best friend and mentor (Corey Nelson) get drafted, so I'm sure his plan is to do the same thing. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen.

We also don't know what was said between he and Stoops. It's possible that Stoops is on his side, but couldn't come out publicly. He may have been the reason Shannon stayed.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

It's appropriate to hold to the 'innocent until proven guilty' stance....for a while. And, in Shannon's case, when the alleged victim wants the process stopped and takes positive steps to see it stopped, and the DA refuses to bring charges, it seems the appropriate stance to maintain.
L'Affair Winston, however, is a different kettle of fish. Go read the NYT article and you may rethink your position. I started off with precisely the opinion you hold now.
I changed my mind.

Which NYT article, please and thank you?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Which NYT article, please and thank you?

Pretty damn good one right here.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Pretty damn good one right here.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0

Thanks!